Let’s Talk About Trojan

The first episode of the new series of Red Dwarf is being broadcast on British television tonight. It is 2012. Did you ever think this would happen?

Please use this post as the repository for all your Trojan-related comments, before during and after broadcast. Some of your comments may be read out during tonight’s live Dwarfcast, the link for which will appear here at 9:40pm, ready for the show to start at 10pm.

Brace yourself. We’re giving you ample bracing time.

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360 Responses to Let’s Talk About Trojan

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  1. Braced. Good luck people…

  2. Perhaps early to talk about, but I wonder how well ‘Trojan’ will rate. Up or down on ‘Back to Earth’ Part 1?

    I’m thinking that it’ll have an overnight of around 2-2.5m. A little below ‘Back to Earth’ Part 1 but only because it is up against strong competition from new BBC One drama, Hunted, and Russell Howard’s Good News.

  3. My body is ready.

  4. Here it comes! Hold onto your wage packets!

  5. Trojan? Wasn’t this on last night?

  6. >It is 2012. Did you ever think this would happen?

    I had my suspicions on the 31st of December 2011. HAHA.

    Good luck everyone.

  7. I’m still not sure I’ll be able to watch it. Can the G+T crew provide a full reenactment afterward for me?

  8. I’m actually really nervous. But, y’know, in a good, excited way.

  9. Excited, nervous, fascinated. Welcome back, Red Dwarf!

  10. The number of people on Twitter despairing over whether to watch Trojan or Russell Howard….
    The fuck is wrong with the UK?

  11. The luck virus must be working – Lenny Henry was on the One Show earlier, anything following him tonight is going to seem brilliant in comparison.

  12. Waiting, got my streaming video, and rediscovering just how crap the US version of Top Gear really is.

  13. Someone tweeted Norman Lovett:
    “Norman! I am so excited for Red Dwarf 10. If it’s like series 8 though, I will have to kill you and all the cast and crew”

    Ouch.

  14. LESS THAN AN HOUR, PEOPLE.

  15. >Waiting, got my streaming video

    I assume “it” is working then? Marvelous!

    I’m stuck at work so I won’t be able to watch it…forgot all about just how significant the time difference is. Will have to seek out other solutions later…but enjoy!

  16. Finally found a TV in my house that still has Dave on it!! I was so afraid I’d have rely on the catch up service or other online services.

  17. Well, that was pretty good.

    Not sure about Archie being a permanent member of the crew…though I do like that they made the “member” joke. (Probably didn’t need repeating the fourth time, though.)

    Cat’s new CGI tail is quite well done.

  18. >Waiting, got my streaming video

    I assume “it” is working then? Marvelous!
    I’m stuck at work so I won’t be able to watch it…forgot all about just how significant the time difference is. Will have to seek out other solutions later…but enjoy!

    Yes, eventually had to use Real Player. The buffering of the other two wasn’t very good, so I had to sacrifice aspect ratio.

  19. Well, that was pretty good.

    Not sure about Archie being a permanent member of the crew…though I do like that they made the “member” joke. (Probably didn’t need repeating the fourth time, though.)
    Cat’s new CGI tail is quite well done.

    True. Shocked they opened with the Rimmer/ Inflatable Ingrid sex scene though.
    Never thought he’d cheat on Rachel like that.

  20. Kochanski was actually a Rimmer from another dimension in drag?! Never saw that coming!

  21. I can’t believe they killed Dave Lister!!!!

  22. Not even a raging cold can quell my excitement! 20 ‘fucking’ minutes to go!!!!!!

  23. So, the Trojan was in fact a black ribbed knobbler! Now it makes so much sense!

  24. Some of your comments may be read out during tonight’s live Dwarfcast

    Just for old times sake then, IAIN LEE IS A MASSIVE CUNT :)

    Good times :)

  25. It’s a very exciting time. Very exciting. I’ve even brought the parents round for their HONEST opinion!

  26. It’s an odd feeling, really. Sort of reminds me of when Doctor Who returned in 2005. It’s helped people who haven’t watched the show in years to remember it again. I was walking through the supermarket today and two lads who were working there started quoting the ‘fish’ sequence with Cat and the Vending Machine word-for-word! I NEVER hear people talking about Red Dwarf. It put a huge smile on my face and has made me moist with anticipation!

  27. I had a beef curry at work. Apt.

    Beware of People that dont like anything About Trojan. They are complete smeggers.

  28. My favourite part was when they said “smeg”. Now, THAT’S FUNNEH!

    In all seriousness: would 9PM please get here now!

  29. Lets hope that Dave have cranked up the UKTV fan to stop any broadcast problems tonight :D

    Remember the fuckup that happened on the first ever episode of the new Doctor Who? :D

  30. >I was walking through the supermarket today and two lads who were working there started quoting the ‘fish’ sequence with Cat and the Vending Machine word-for-word!

    To be fair, it’s not many words.

  31. Top Gears done. This is it folks.

  32. Wow…see you on the other side, folks!

    Stop talking about American things (and Jimmy Saville…) and let’s watch the greatest television show ever made.

  33. NEXT!!! See you on the other side…

  34. The Sky + is recording…

  35. The ad breaks are going to take some getting used to. So far… I feel like I’m 8 years old again. LOVING IT! And Danny John Jules has finally got his groove back!

  36. Aww yeah the Moose joke is Kryten’s fat suit and exposed neck not looking dodgy?

  37. Anyone else have a minor blip going into the ad break?

  38. That.Was.Brilliant.

  39. I have to say, that was bloody excellent.

    A lot of people who saw the episode recorded said that some people might be worried after seeing the first 5 minutes. I was, the first five minutes seemed a bit overplayed. But the rest of the episode more than made up for it. Easily the best Red Dwarf since the end of Series 6.

  40. *dies from happiness*

  41. Overall, I fucking enjoyed that. A strong return, for sure. There were some weak points, but right now I’m so happy, looking forward to re-watching it, and having my next five Thursdays be full of new Dwarf-y goodness that I don’t care. I feel like a kid again. Right now, I’m full of joy but also wishing I could’ve gone to the recordings!

    Also, the dedication to Jo Howard at the end was a lovely touch.

  42. Better than I remembered. Danny and Mark Dexter were especially great. :D

  43. NO FLYOVER! NO FLYOVER YOU BASTARDS!

    Those model FX looked better than anything on TV. Especially Dr. Who. Incredible work.

    Good, not great. But things are always a bit rusty getting back into something off air so long. This was the first recorded right?

    Performances very VIII, and the plot was a bit thin, would have been nice to keep the ship in a death dive and have their interaction over comms till the end – BUT, that’s fan-fiction. Happy with what it was.

    Could have done with a bit of script editing though, lots of over explaining things that kept pulling me out of the jokes.

    Next week looks effing great though, and everyone seems from those short clips to have found their feet a bit more.

    Hurrah!

    EDIT: On Howard’s death, a sad reprise of the Munchin song, oh Goodall, you brilliant bastard.

  44. Initial gut response… I loved it. It was so much better than I would ever have hoped it could be. I thoroughly enjoyed it without any sense of niggling conflicted thoughts as I have done with any other post VI Red Dwarf. A fantastic blend of character driven story with action & big laughs. It seemed so fast paced too.

    About half way through I suddenly realised that I’d not been paying enough attention to the models, the VFX and the music but then quickly realised that that’s because they’re just so right. If there’d been something wrong with them, they’d have stuck out but it was all spot on for me.

    So much to process and I need to rewatch immediately (once I’ve listened to the dwarfcast).

  45. Ooh, Munchkin song reprise for Howard’s death. Didn’t notice that last night.

  46. I thought the first 5 minutes or so was really stilted. The jokes weren’t great and the laughter sounded so false and artificial….I know it wasn’t canned, but it sounded like it! I don’t know if it was the way the scenes were edited around the laughter but they just didn’t seem to match up. I was sat silent and feeling disappointed as the audience laughter was in hysterics. And, I thought the first moose joke scene was going on too much in a very Series VIII manner. And just i was starting to think ‘Perhaps Doug can’t do Red Dwarf’, it got good. Really good.

    I was laughing out loud. The return of the moose gag was really enjoyable. And, before I knew it, I was fully engrossed and properly laughing. Shame about those first 5 minutes. The other 25 more than made up for it in my opinion though. I’m a happy Dwarfer right now :)

  47. I’m happy WELL DONE DOUG BIGBAWS RESPECT

  48. Right.

    Opening credits pretty shite looks like cgi and what is with the cast names again?? Still the last great credits were series 6.

    Models shots meh not impressed. Nice to see Starbug though I’m sure they will get better.
    But yet to top the shots from 20-25 years ago…….but it’s early doors.

    Took a while to get going but it had some funny moments. Some over acting in parts. Many predicatable gags sadly.

    No flyby post credits. Fail.

    It kinda of felt old school but different. The sets are too clean I feel but we our in the HD era now. It’s going to take a while to get used to this. But this is going to be one day seen upon as an era of it’s own so I am hopeful of the future.

    5/10

  49. The tribute to Jo was a lovely touch.

    As for the episode, it was OK. Some of the jokes felt a bit laboured, obviously telescoped or just went on too long. I am worried that I didn’t laugh more. But some of the later jokes were genuinely funny, some strong lines, and a lot of the Trek spoof stuff was good.

    Quite a few issues, mind. Felt like the universe was a bit too crowded for three million years into deep space (there are suddenly two other ships within reasonable travel distance?). Kryten’s costume looked incredibly weird, and since when would he allow Rimmer to erase his memory? The whole point of Kryten’s character arc is that he broke his programming, is independent, and no longer subservient. That’s a pretty fundamental character error!

    Rimmer never took the astronavigation exam during the previous series? And there’s the odd rehashing of Beyond a Joke. Why all the mad waving by Craig towards the end? And then the rather disturbing moment with the captured simulant.

    All in all, it was acceptable, but I am slightly concerned for the rest of the series.

  50. It was funny – meaning, many times, I laughed. Properly laughing.

    For a comedy, there is no higher accolade :)

  51. I’m 17 years of age and an avid Red Dwarf fan ever since seeing Legion broadcast on Dave about 5 years ago. I became obsessed with it, and shortly afterwards moved to Spain. I had no idea that Back To Earth would happened and I had no idea there was such a huge cult following online for this quirky sci-fi show I found on some late night repeats channel.

    Then I found this bunch of fucking outcasts. I love all of you guys… and for the first time ever tonight I watched an episode of Red-smegging-Dwarf on it’s broadcast. I can’t explain how exciting it was.. I suppose just about everyone else here would have seen at least one episode on original broadcast.

    I attend an internation college in Spain and have several English friends, all of whom I coaxed into watching tonight, and every single one loved it. About 6 or 7 brand new fans all under the age of 20 were, and I quote ‘In fucking stitches mate.’

    Due to my retarded brain and incapability to figure out timings I was under the impression X would be on at 11 my time, so when I found out it was showing at 10 for me… I literally pelted home faster than i’ve run since GCSE P.E! I missed the first minute or so but wow..

    Oh my good god. Was genuinely superb. Better than anything I could’ve expected. Episode just got better and better as it went on. Can’t remember the last time I laughed out loud so much at something on television. I want to watch it again RIGHT NOW.

    Thank god someone had the brains to commission a new series of this masterpiece. BBC2 are assholes for ever dropping the series, but I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing, I suppose it did the show good.

    Speaking on behalf on the brand new young community of Dwarf fans… We loved every SMEGGING minute!

  52. Quality episode, big goofy grin on my face throughout.

    “No, we just hosed him down and gave him a hat” :D

  53. I rather enjoyed it :-)

    I also recorded it to watch again later:

  54. For months I’ve had people telling me that I probably enjoyed the episode more at the recording because of being sat in the audience, and that it’d be Series VIII syndrome all over again with the early reactions being too enthusiastic. These people have now been proven to be cunts, as on that 4th viewing I enjoyed the episode more than on any of the previous 3 viewings. It’s back and kicking bottom.

  55. That was genuinly brilliant. It was in the recording – even better now its finished!

  56. Forgot to add: I do hope we get to see the inside of Starbug at some point in the series.

  57. Absolutely ruddy brilliant. A clear 10/10 from me. After seeing Blue Midget in the trailer and titles, it was a lovely surprise to see Starbug back. I completely identify with Lister’s (sorry, Listerson-Smythe’s) dilemma of being on hold on a phone. Few things though – did Rimmer say shit when he got angry over his exam results? And did he describe himself as First Tech?

  58. Read our tweets, damn you.

  59. Plenty of ups and downs in the episode but as a complete show I REALLY liked it! Like others have said, the first 5 minutes are a tad dodge for a number of reasons, but both those scenes were needed as setup for later.

    The phone stuff shouldn’t have been funny, it just shouldn’t…but it was! I couldn’t help smirking every time the phone reappeared. Excellently played by Craig, who, along with the rest of the cast, absolutely nailed their performances. As cliched as this sounds, it’s like they’ve never been away, that the characters have been living and doing stuff, we just haven’t been privy to it.

    Howard Rimmer…considering his appearance has been bigged up to the nth degree, he didn’t really feature so much, and I could have done with another couple of moments with him and Arnold. Not that I didn’t (almost) well up upon hearing the blummin MUNCHKIN SONG, yes yes yes I want to shake Howard Goodall’s hand.

    And can we have a shoutout to the effing model shots!!! The new ‘bug looks gorgeous.

    Pretty darn successful 30 mins of television.

  60. Never mind that tot… the Xpress Lifts in a turgid tinkly arrangement for the hold music. Class. As for the rest of the episode… I saw the rough cut on Episode 5 night… I liked it then, I like it now. Can’t say I *love* it… But it just works where so much of 7 and 8 failed miserably. Think I may learn to love this eventually… :D

  61. Yay it was good! I liked the moose jokes – the pay-off with Rimmer was hilarious. “No, we just hosed him down and gave him a hat”. Brilliant line! I would say is that the plot had some problems as you’d think the Rimmer brothers would have been more surprised to have found each other. I like the idea that I’ve come up with that Arnold though Howard was a success because he was lying to the teeth in his letters home as well. I think they could have done with at least some pre-episode text to explain what was going as some of my family were a little confused at first as to exactly what was going on, what was the situation, where’s Holly etc.

  62. Pretty sure the shots of Starbug are the original shots from years ago, smartened up in HD, as they were shot on film.

  63. That was brilliant and effortlessly classic Dwarf. So many good things about it but first off we laughed and we laughed more than ten times. The ‘iffy’ first scene? Not down our way – the pig line got a huge laugh.

    The ‘beachballs of death’ – funny and therefore not a problem.

    Kryten does look a bit off but it really didn’t matter because it was funny.

    Cat stole the show but the whole cast shone.

    I LOVE that a model shot was used for a gag!

    Jo Howard’s tribute at the end was a lovely touch – I expect there’ll be one for Peter Wragg one week. Maybe Mel as well.

  64. Oh Goodall – well done Goodall. Awesome.

  65. Apologies to the 2 and a half people following me on Twitter, but I’ll just rehash what I’ve already written.

    Negatives :

    * Opening credits reminded me of BTE. I’d prefer faster cuts, and no actor credits, frankly.
    * First scene was clunky. Sets up TWO running jokes, but doesn’t do it particularly gracefully.
    * The Moose stuff…is troublesome for me. I didn’t like the setup and I find call-backs a bit troublesome.I don’t mind it too much in TV Burp…here it’s a bit odd.
    * Big ideas being slipped in without much elaboration. Android TV network? Star drive? These could have been tied together. As it is, the universe seems far smaller.
    * Rimmer’s blame of his parents for his failures was always brilliantly unfounded due to his brother’s successes. This *kinda* spoils that. 
    * Howard dying…and Rimmer’s non-reaction.
    * Backstory about Trojan. Blink and you’ll miss it. Helps the pace, but raises questions.
    * The malware face…it’s a bit…broad. Especially on the simulant.

    Positives:
    * Everything else. Cat walking past the entrance. The line about the hat. Rimmer and the chair. Kryten erasing his memory All made me laugh the third time of watching.

    This feels like Red Dwarf in a way that Red Dwarf VII, VIII and BTE never did. It’s not amazing but I can actually name a few episodes in the original 36 that this is better than.

  66. Is the reactioncast still going, or is it over, cos the page is loading fuck all.

  67. I liked Back to Earth, but mainly because I liked the concept and because I appreciated seeing the characters again, rather than because it was particularly funny.

    Fortunately, Trojan felt like it had more good jokes in its first half than I think there were in all of Back to Earth. I think one of the most pleasant surprises was how many of the best jokes involved the Cat.

    Some jokes felt like they went on too long (like the title of Rimmer’s book). But the moose gag had a fantastic payoff.

    I was watching in SD, and it felt odd to me how much time went by in Howard’s introduction scene before he was given a close-up. Perhaps for people watching in HD, that wasn’t an issue, because they could see his face clearly in the longer shots that began his scene?

  68. Still trying to process my thoughts on ‘Trojan’.

    Those people who said it is Series Y mixed with Series Z are wrong. It isn’t any series mixed with any other series. As with series past it is it’s own series with its own style and tone.

    In terms of the story. I like the idea that Howard is as much a failure as Rimmer. I like the idea that he lied about his achievements as much as Rimmer. Some might say it plays against past ideas that Rimmer is only a failure by his own actions and not his parents and upbringing but ‘Trojan’ isn’t the only episode to play against this idea, ‘The Inquisitor’ comes straight to mind.

    Cat (aka. Gerald Hampton) has the funniest gags he has had for a long time. ‘Out of Time’ was probably the last episode where he had so much great material.

    Some people seem to have a problem with the logistics of the robot shopping channel. It is made pretty obvious how it works, so I don’t know why. The robot shopping channel has a ship which went near Red Dwarf.

    Rimmer is a twat. Though really, Howard is a bit of a twat too.

    That walk down the corridor with them all dolled up in the Star Trek outfits was brilliant.

    Expecting very little Starbug this series but at least it appeared here and will appear in one future episode. How did they royally fuck up the first model shoot so much?

    Nice off hand mention of Kochanski and Peterson.

  69. You bastards crashed my laptop.Twice.
    You’re lucky I like you all.

  70. I must admit I found the love track at the beginning very odd, it sounded like it had been added, it seem to have an echo or something it didn’t seem right. the second part was far superior, the whole scene with the crew and Rimmer was classic Dwarf, it had pathos and yet still laughs and Chris’s performance was first rate. Loved the scene with Cat and the sign, though the whole sped up part of the later sequence felt very odd. Overall I’d give it 7/10, definitely needs a second rewatch

  71. >Some people seem to have a problem with the logistics of the robot shopping channel.

    Not a huge problem. Just a slight unease that the hint of a civilization is dropped in for a joke but not expanded on in any capacity.

  72. Great mash up. Very clever. Oh also Twitter is going mental for RDX!

  73. Has the show turned into a 503 message now then?

    “Well something’s smegged up here, hasn’t it?

    Looks like the Dave website has had a temporary meltdown. We’re guessing there’s been a big Red Dwarf-related rush and our servers can’t cope. Well, they’re only human. And yes, we know we shouldn’t have bought those Matrix-style human servers but they look sooooo cute curled up in their little pods!

    We reckon if you cross your fingers, concentrate really hard about how you love and miss us and, perhaps most importantly, give it a couple of minutes or so, the Dave site will magically reappear and it’ll be like none of this ever happened.

    And it’ll just be our little secret. Between the two of us. And nobody else. Right? Right.”

  74. I must admit I found the laughter track at the beginning very odd, it sounded like it had been added, it seem to have an echo or something it didn’t seem right. the second part was far superior, the whole scene with the crew and Rimmer was classic Dwarf, it had pathos and yet still laughs and Chris’s performance was first rate. Loved the scene with Cat and the sign, though the whole sped up part of the later sequence felt very odd. Overall I’d give it 7/10

  75. I think by far the best bit was when Howard called Rimmer an “utter Twat” or the bit with the Moose. Classic Dwarf at its best. By far one of the funniest episodes yet.

  76. In regards to something that’s just been said on the reaction – could the “populated universe” not be because, after 20 odd years flying back towards earth, they’re slowly running into satellite signals, other shits, etc.

  77. Perhaps Howard being back has something to do with Series 9?

  78. Looking forward to discussing it at school tomorrow like the old days………..oh wait I left school 15 years ago! Bugger!

  79. Loving the Dwarfcast guys! I think Trojan was amazing and the boys are definately back!! Craig got it bang on when he said its better as a sitcom.

  80. I think the Cat was fantastic. Much closer to the Cat from series 2,3 and 4.

  81. The ‘Earth’ swears were a bit jarring…

  82. An awful lot of people seem to think Rimmer said “shit”, but he said “sick”.

  83. So what do we think for the ratings? I’m going for 5million. I really think it did that well.

  84. Watching ‘Justice’ and why the hell can’t the mask be like that?

  85. Not too sure about how I feel about the portrayal of Howard as being every bit a failure as Rimmer. I always thought Rimmer’s bitterness was as a result of both Howard and Frank’s success. He couldn’t blame his parents for his own failure’s and short comings with the success of both brothers. This episode kind of undermines that. Over analysing?

  86. Not perfect but had a bloody great smile on my face the whole time. B+.

    Also, as someone who saw this one recorded, I was glad to see a particular storyline/scene cut.

  87. > This episode kind of undermines that.

    I don’t think it does really. Rimmer always thought he was a big success, that’s the main thing.

  88. – tell us about the episode six trailer from last night you exclusive cunts.

    Plz x

  89. I would love if this did better in the ratings than anything on BBC1/2 at the same time. That would be a real “up yours” for the Beeb.

  90. First complaint about next weeks episode ; Pree’s neck is far too long for a computer.

  91. In next weeks trailer – im sure there’s a shot that looks like an attempt to do the original closing title sequence!!!

  92. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5HeLc55UYo

    This makes me even sadder that the promotional material hasn’t been announced for the DVD/Blu Ray.

    In other news, when you stream you don’t get an episode 2 preview. I was at the recording but would still love to see the preview.

  93. G&T Admin

    Oh god. Thank you, sorry, thank you, sorry, bye, in that order.

    We really bloody enjoyed that live Dwarfcast. Thank you to everyone who stuck with us through the massive technical problems. I think ‘technical problems’ just about covers COMPLETELY DROPPING OFF AIR. Special thank you to everyone who listened to the remounted show. Massive apologies that this wasn’t a smoother listening experience, but hopefully it was worth sticking with.

    We’ll currently trying to fix the audio on the first part of the chat. Once that’s either done or we’ve given up on getting it done, we’ll post this as one big podcast in all the normal places. In the meantime, you can listen again on our Spreaker page (although, you’ll have to skip past the musical bits at the start of each part!)

    THANK YOU AGAIN, THAT WAS REALLY GOOD, I LOVE EVERYONE WHO’S EVER BEEN ON THIS SITE

  94. G&T Admin

    I SPECIFICALLY asked you all to NOT break my server. You fuckers. Still, everything seems to have calmed down, now…

  95. G&T Admin

    – tell us about the episode six trailer from last night you exclusive cunts.

    We were expressly told not to. It’s designed to be shown after episode 5 so we can’t really say much about it.

  96. Was the on hold music the lift music from Stasis Leak? I’m sure I’ve heard it somehwere before on RD.

  97. If I had one major criticism of the show, beyond some rusty getting back into the swing of things acting, it’s that the direction isn’t nearly as good as it should be. Everything looks like a play, shot from one angle at the front. I don’t know exactly why or how, but it feels off. The picture is clear, but the angles seem lacking.

    Oh and small observation, the humour felt very “Hyperdrive” which sort of makes sense really.

  98. What’s the rules regarding posting links to sites that may or may not possibly might have embedded videos of particular cult science fiction shows for those abroad who were unable to watch the broadcast maybe possibly?

  99. The cast were all superb in this, but Chris Barrie was the standout. I thought he had found Rimmer again quite well in BTE compared to series VIII but he was spot on throughout Trojan.

  100. Thoroughly enjoyed the episode.. :). A few rimmer continuity errors from previous series and lack of Starbug cockpit aside it was ok! Very funny in places, especially the Cat!
    I felt the plot was brushed over too fast which was a shame.
    I did laugh in places. Howard calling Rimmer a twat made me laugh out loud

  101. Just noticed that in the model shot of Red Dwarf after the Kryten’s memory gag, it’s moving backwards.

  102. I wasn’t too sure of that during the first viewing. It wasn’t bad at all (was pretty good in fact) but I found the tonal difference jarring when compared to previous shows. And it’s not like Series VIII, it’s something all on it’s own.

    I watched it again at 23:30, and despite still noting the different tone, it wasn’t that strong and I rather enjoyed it.

    I do hope the other episodes are better, but it as a decent start.

  103. > Not too sure about how I feel about the portrayal of Howard as being every bit a failure as Rimmer. I always thought Rimmer’s bitterness was as a result of both Howard and Frank’s success. He couldn’t blame his parents for his own failure’s and short comings with the success of both brothers. This episode kind of undermines that. Over analysing?

    Surely Ace is the ultimate undercut of the idea that Rimmer couldn’t have been a success, whatever went on with his brothers.

  104. Didn’t notice that Crawford destroyed the teleporter on the first watch. Goodo.

  105. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Good plot, some absolutely cracking lines, and lovely model shots and sets more than make up for a few predictable gags and what I agree was some slightly uninspired direction. The new Kryten mask and costume are taking some getting used to. Robert, Chris and Craig’s performances were a bit broad at times I thought, and was Kryten’s accent a bit off, just for the odd word? In general the cast were very good though. In fact, has Danny ever been better? He kinda stole the episode for me. Next week’s looks good.
    I want a Stirmaster.

  106. Well that made me smile

    Watched it with a German fella. First night in England, never heard of Red Dwarf, never met me before. He smiled too. Good times!

  107. 12.30am finally got the dave site to work. I find it deliciously ironic that after 3 browsers, hours of refreshing windows, reboots, 2 modems, logins, changes of passwords, offline error message, failed attempts ringing my landlord last week to get the propertys digital ariels to work, and even a trip back to work tonight only to find their digital tv isnt retuned to dave yet. That I get to enjoy a show full of the dangers of resentment and the hassle of systems of help lines. Which ultimately you have to say is pretty a vogon theme!

    Wow. New Dwarf. And even though ive seen the filming. Im surprised how different the show feels, yet again.
    It will be compared to various eras, but it’s a series apart yet again. It weirdly felt american to me. I dont mean that as bad.
    lots to enjoy. Was a bit worried during the early moose and shopping channle stuff. Felt a bit like some of the bits of VI or VIII i like less, but pretty soon after that i fell into the world of Red Dwarf X and just loved it, laughing along in full enjoyment.

    Right time to give the live cast a playback.

  108. I suppose the recording originally having the Trojan inside Red Dwarf would explain how the the quantum rod takes Red Dwarf with it..?

  109. Loved it… :)

  110. Loved it, though Doug’s directing feels off. I need to rewatch before I come up with more detailed thoughts.

  111. Oh and small observation, the humour felt very “Hyperdrive” which sort of makes sense really.

    BURN THE WITCH!

  112. Loved it, and agree with the assessment that it has its own feel, not exactly like any of the series before it, but definitely not as bad as VII, VIII & BTE.

    Also, can someone explain to me how a hologram bleeds? Is this the thing referred to before, that we didn’t know holograms could do this? I too, think that Rimmer wasn’t very sorry at all to see Howard’s demise. It wasn’t that he was cold, it was just like “oopsy”. Just nothing.

  113. VII Ace bled in Stoke Me A Clipper when he was shot in the Bond parody.

    On the one hand, there’s no reason they shouldn’t simulate bleeding… But on the other, there’s no reason why that should relate to light bee damage. Quite the reverse, if anything.

    The bigger question is how Howard happened upon a hard light drive. :)

  114. VII Ace bled in Stoke Me A Clipper when he was shot in the Bond parody.

    On the one hand, there’s no reason they shouldn’t simulate bleeding… But on the other, there’s no reason why that should relate to light bee damage. Quite the reverse, if anything.
    The bigger question is how Howard happened upon a hard light drive. :)

    I don’t recall him bleeding, but I do recall holes in his shirt and him complaining about it. I also recall his light bee being hit, but never any actual blood.

    And yes, where did Howard get a hard light bee? Questions, questions…

  115. I never got the impression that Legion invented the hard light bee, rather that he was surprised how primitive Rimmer’s technology was and upgraded it for him. I took it that hard light replaced soft light long ago in the world outside of the Dwarf which is something of an old fashioned three million year old time capsule in the world they now occupy post-stasis.

  116. “I created the hard-light drive many years ago.”

    But there’s nothing to suggest the hard-light bee didn’t go into production afterwards. Or that it’s as sophisticated as Rimmer’s… Easy to hand wave away methinks.

  117. Great episode. Felt very series 6. One criticism would be that as other people have said the universe felt quite busy. Who did that Space Corps message at the end come from?

  118. “I created the hard-light drive many years ago.”

    Ah. Quite.

    It’s been a while since I last saw Legion, but in 3 million years I’m sure someone else would have also come up with it, marketed it, and replaced soft light with it.

  119. “I created the hard-light drive many years ago.”

    Legion was part of a research facility, no? So the technology developed while the station was manned, would most likely have been sold on and put into production.

  120. Is the trailer for next week’s anywhere online, please? Both my tv signal and my laptop chose tonight to die on me so I waited while midnight and bought the bloody thing on iTunes on my phone. Very enjoyable though, Danny on formidable form. Plot was so-so, didn’t like Rimmer’s complete lack of reaction to Howard’s death but chalk me up in the ‘loved the moose gag’ category.

  121. Loved it, and agree with the assessment that it has its own feel, not exactly like any of the series before it, but definitely not as bad as VII, VIII & BTE.

    Also, can someone explain to me how a hologram bleeds? Is this the thing referred to before, that we didn’t know holograms could do this? I too, think that Rimmer wasn’t very sorry at all to see Howard’s demise. It wasn’t that he was cold, it was just like “oopsy”. Just nothing.

    I got the feeling he didn’t like Howard very much given how the guy treated him as a child, and he hadn’t seen him in forever – he never felt close to him in the first place. To me, it just kind of punctuated the concept of the difference between the family you’re born with, and the family you make for yourself – Rimmer (and the others) looked upset when Lister was caught in the squid-dream near the end of BTE. THAT’S his family – not the other Rimmers.

  122. Great episode. Felt very series 6. One criticism would be that as other people have said the universe felt quite busy. Who did that Space Corps message at the end come from?

    It was the on-board GMC computer that made that determination – based on Space Corps directives programmed into it, I suppose?

  123. Is the trailer for next week’s anywhere online, please?

  124. I’m pretty much certain that everything after the platinum something-or-other was Lister winding Rimmer up, because why wouldn’t he?

  125. That trailer for next week looks very Queeg, if Queeg was a later series episode.

    With the flyover not being used for the end credits I suspect camera/lenses they used for the model shots just wasn’t suitable. The wide shots of Red Dwarf (especially at the start of Trojan) look amazing, but more close up shots like the one used at the start of the opening credits have a bit of depth of field blurring going on.

  126. I got the feeling he didn’t like Howard very much given how the guy treated him as a child, and he hadn’t seen him in forever – he never felt close to him in the first place. To me, it just kind of punctuated the concept of the difference between the family you’re born with, and the family you make for yourself – Rimmer (and the others) looked upset when Lister was caught in the squid-dream near the end of BTE. THAT’S his family – not the other Rimmers.

    Point taken, I guess I just expected a little more than what we got.

  127. What a mess.

    But at least they tried. Really, really hard. You can tell by the way Craig and Danny play the very first scene. Contrast that with how they play the Flinstones scene in Backwards. In Trojan you can tell they really, really want us to laugh. Not just then, either. When Kryten speaks on the phone, and when Lister spazzes out at the climax — this is a comedy, people. Never mind plot, editing, direction, characterization.. laugh, damn you.

    “I’m resentful? I resent that!”

    “A” for effort.

  128. Im looking forward to how they explain getting the hologram rimmer back. It seems to be the rimmer they have had with them who left in Stoke Me…

  129. Im really glad its returned though. It was a good episode and felt very dwarfy again. Dispite the continuity errors. Cat is my fave character and it was great to see him have a lovely mix of his early feline dysfunctional nievity with his silver tongue of the later years… I didnt laugh as much as i did when i first saw series 6. But i smiled most of the way through. The lack of starbug cockpit scene was saddening.. i hope there is a set for that. Also i felt Kryten struggled his lines a little. But deffo waa a great comeback. I probably overhyped it for myself lol

  130. Also, as someone who saw this one recorded, I was glad to see a particular storyline/scene cut.

    Can you elaborate? Now the episode has aired will G&T’s spoiler policy allow? I would be very interested to know what was cut, as the plot did feel a little light to me (Howard was sort of thrown away) – but on the other hand I laughed and laughed and *that* is why I watch Red Dwarf, so the fact that the comedy is now funny again made it a roaring success, for me. Still, be interesting to know though.

  131. Well I bloody loved it.

    That is all.

  132. “No we just hosed him down and gave him a hat.”

    I’ve watched that little skit countless times since airing and it hasn’t yet failed to be hilarious.

  133. Chris Barrie’s delivery coupled with Robert Llewellyn’s reaction just shows how good performances can improve any script. I’m not saying it isn’t a good line on paper because it is, but it was killer with those guys at the helm. Chris was just superb in that whole scene masquerading as captain. I’ve seen complaints that some of the performances were pretty broad but the difference is (for me, anyway) that the ‘big’ acting actually worked and made me laugh in Trojan, where it was more miss than hit in VIII. The facials of the holograms when the resentment crashes occurred were funnier for how silly they were.

  134. Also, I saw no problem with Lister placing a telephone order (or trying to) with the shopping channel. It was made clear that they had entered the catchment area of the All Droid space station, which is how they started to receive a TV signal and why it was suggested they attend the station to use its medical facilities when Howard crashed. They have met many droids and manufactured life forms from series II onwards, the idea that there are occupied stations littered around isn’t new to Dwarf. I love the idea of these commercial outlets floating through space manned by droids programmed only to sell – why couldn’t this be so?

  135. Right, so I’ve been able to watch this.

    It’s pretty good. In terms of humour, it took a while to get going, but the last half was consistently funny. I felt the shopping channel/phone B Plot wasn’t too good, but it picked up a bit toward the end. There’s also something about the Trojan set that, though mostly looks nice, feels a little plain/off, mainly the wall on the right, but that’s probably nitpicking.

    The model shots are fucking incredible. That is all.

    I’ve also rewatched it and now I’m acclimatized to all the changes (tone, etc, which was kind of offputting for me the first time around. I think I was too excitedly nervous to take in the changes?), I feel more comfortable with it.

    Not bad, not bad at all.

  136. I seem to not be getting an activation email from Dave, despite asking them to resend a few times which means I am unable to log in. Anyone else having this problem? I wouldn’t have thought so as after 145 comments I seem to be the first.

    Looks like iTunes for me, though would rather stream it from Dave.

  137. Also, I tried logging in with Facebook. While I can log in it still won’t play the episode. What is it I am doing wrong?

  138. Can’t help thinking it would have worked better if Rimmer had plugged in the Quantum rod and this, as well as bringing Howard into the story, had suddenly caused all the TVs on ship to ping into life and start showing feeds from the Droid channel.

    I don’t have a huge problem with it, aside from the fact that it was dealt with in such a throwaway fashion. It’s a rather large idea and has one line of explanation.

  139. It’s on you tube. Should still be up there for a while.

  140. Laughed my balls off (or would’ve done if I had any) Ok so the first 5 mins were a bit worrying, and the cast seemed to be acting more to the studio audience than camera, but all in all it was saturated with gags and that’s all that matters to me.
    Some great stuff for the Cat and the group ‘lean’ when the ship was meant to be turning was an amusing touch.

    Couple of ‘small points’ that I didn’t think of in time for the podcast last night. Was that a rushed reference to scramble cards in Backwards, just before the simulant was put out of action? Also I was always under the impression that Rimmer was the youngest of the brothers? But enough of this tot…..

  141. Was that a rushed reference to scramble cards in Backwards, just before the simulant was put out of action? Also I was always under the impression that Rimmer was the youngest of the brothers? But enough of this tot…..

    Backwards as in Rob Grant’s novel rather than the episode

  142. 1.45m Ratings. Damn :(
    BTE was 2.6m overall so down sadly. But it will probably get closer to 2m once the repeats, +1 is added. I thought Dave plugged this much more than BTE! It’s in trouble if it slips under 1m I reckon as that’s under Dave’s expectation isn’t it?

    * But feedback has been pretty good – tons better than BTE. So it should be comfortably over 1m next week!

    Others to compare. It’s not bad but I expected better!

    BBC1
    13:45 Doctors – 1.26m (19.1%)
    19:30 Eastenders – 7.1m (33.5%)
    * BBC3: 403k (2.8%)
    20:00 Waterloo Road – 3.32m (14.6%)
    21:00 Hunted – 4.5m

    ITV1
    19:00 Emmerdale – 6.46m (32.1%)
    * +1 110k
    20:00 Emmerdale – 5.65m (24.9%)
    * +1 190k
    20:30 Corrie Years – 2.58m (11.4%)
    * +1 118k

    Channel 4
    18:30 Hollyoaks – 973k (5.3%)

    Channel 5
    13:45 Neighbours – 695k (10.5%)
    17:30 Neighbours – 941k (6.4%)
    18:00 Home & Away – 683k (4.0%)

    BBC3
    22:30 Eastenders – 403k (2.8%)

    E4
    19:00 Hollyoaks – 639k (3.2%)

    5*
    19:00 Home & Away – 485k (2.6%)

  143. “Slower than the speed of darkness” = instant classic, for me

  144. There’s usually a fair difference between overnights and final figures, so I shouldn’t worry about a thing.

  145. Perhaps slightly disappointing considering the amount of publicity it’s been given but I’m such it’ll do well online and Dave will earn a pretty penny from downloads, DVDs and Netflix licensing. Worry ye not.

  146. Most of those comparative ratings are a bit meaningless, as they’re not in the same timeslot. I’ve not seen precise figures for 9pm across the board, but I gather Dwarf got only 1m fewer than ITV1, and actually beat C4 and C5. Add that to getting a third of BBC1’s total for a massive, flagship new drama by a former X-Files showrunner, and I’d say the figures look pretty great.

    Especially when you add in timeshifting, which I think is going to be pretty huge on Dwarf in particular. I think we could be looking at a consolidated figure of over 2m.

    (Worth noting – thanks to Gazpacho Soup for digging out the figures – that BTE1’s overnights were 2.0m, only rising to 2.6m consolidated with the +1 showing added on as well. So there’s an indication.)

  147. Am i the only person who was bothered by the plot for trojan? i mean i thought it was funny and some of the best comedy since 6 but it was a very confused mess of a story that had holes everywhere and yeah you could say the early shows had plot holes but i don’t think they were as in your face as this one

  148. Holes? On this ship?

  149. >a very confused mess of a story that had holes everywhere

    Such as?

  150. So I managed to stream it from Dave, you can all relax. I know how worried you all must have been.

    I myself am not usually the most effusive person so I mean it when I say that, hand on heart, I think that was exactly how it should have been. Certain pockets of people (not here though, I must stress) may scoff at people for saying how excellent they thought ‘Trojan’ was but I think it does sit comfortably among the higher end of Red Dwarf episodes.

    For me, I think a lot of rose-tinted spectacles are put on when looking back at what is perceived to be ‘classic’ Red Dwarf. Even the stronger series’ have episodes I don’t enjoy as much as some in VII, VIII or even Back to Earth. Elements that people find unpalatable in VIII (broad performances, duff gags among others) are present and correct at certain points throughout all of Dwarf. I suppose it is trickier to think of Dwarf on an episode-by-episode basis rather than a series-by-series one but with the remainder of X still to be broadcast, that is how we have to look at it when it comes to ‘Trojan’.

    And for this G&T-commenting newbie upstart, it fares extremely, extremely well.

  151. I was only bothered by the continuity errors, which i hope will be more explained as the series goes on. Especially since Rimmer is acting like the original rimmer not the nano Rimmer. John being the only successful brother… Howard being just as flawed as Rimmer and possibly died first (looking at the hologram ‘age’)

  152. >a very confused mess of a story that had holes everywhere

    Such as?

    Why howard was a hologramme, why he was brought back in first place if he was just a vending machine repairman, why was he hard light, or where did the trojan come from and the whole android tv channel thing and a few other things

    im sure alot of these could have been explained pretty quick and it would not got in the way of the comedy but seems like one of these it happened because it happened things from doug

  153. I was only bothered by the continuity errors, which i hope will be more explained as the series goes on. Especially since Rimmer is acting like the original rimmer not the nano Rimmer. John being the only successful brother… Howard being just as flawed as Rimmer and possibly died first (looking at the hologram ‘age’)

    i think that would have been good if howard had mentioned john and frank as being the successful brothers and he couldn’t bare the embarrassment then rimmer would feel really good about it then of course the ending would change that

  154. Excellent podcast. All the fun of instant analysis plus interviews. Brilliant stuff. It’s like the dimension jump coverage, plus the back to earth casts all in one. :-) Thank you G & T.

  155. >a very confused mess of a story that had holes everywhere

    Such as?
    Why howard was a hologramme, why he was brought back in first place if he was just a vending machine repairman, why was he hard light, or where did the trojan come from and the whole android tv channel thing and a few other things
    im sure alot of these could have been explained pretty quick and it would not got in the way of the comedy but seems like one of these it happened because it happened things from doug

    Why was Rimmer a hologram? Who’s to say that the same pretence didn’t work for him. I think your missing the point of the character Howard. it’s just proving that the Rimmer family is just the same as the rest, they will lie and cheat to be better than the next person. We are told that they are all high fliers in the Space Corps, but where is the proof?

    I still believe the Red Dwarf is set on a course back to earth, as they become closer back to civilisation as were your going to get signals, ships and stimulants.

    Also i don’t need everything to be explained in detail in the plot, it’s not always important and gives the viewer to make their own mind.

  156. On ratings… People seem to over-focus on BtE pt 1, and forget that the initial showing of BtE pt 2 *didn’t break 1m* on overnights. I’m sure ~1.5m for RDX ep 1 is in-line with or better than expectations.

    The more important question for renewal is “what will eps 5 & 6 get”. If those are over 1m, then pending actor availability, I’m sure we’ll see RDXI.

  157. >Why howard was a hologramme, why he was brought back in first place if he was just a vending machine repairman, why was he hard light, or where did the trojan come from and the whole android tv channel thing and a few other things
    im sure alot of these could have been explained pretty quick and it would not got in the way of the comedy but seems like one of these it happened because it happened things from doug

    This all seemed perfectly straight forward to me. The android tv channel was broadcasting perpetually and Red Dwarf just entered its transmission range (‘catchment area’ as it’s called in the episode). The Trojan was just a derelict, as the ship does come across from time to time, and the rod from the Trojan (which connects things that were previously connected) brought Howard and Rimmer back together. Maybe a little rushed, sure, but the explanations were there.

    As for being hardlight and how Howard became a hologram in the first place, well that’s a bit of backstory that wasn’t important to Trojan’s plot, not really. There are many explanations that can be thought up for those.

    What needed telling, we were told.

  158. No, but fair point sometimes a plot issue can niggle away at one person, and not be an issue at all for another. I hadn’t thought of the “Why Howard?” question at all before, and tbh I won’t again, but it’s fair enough to be curious.

    “I’m pretty much certain that everything after the platinum something-or-other was Lister winding Rimmer up, because why wouldn’t he?”

    I don’t know, I mean why would someone who passed the Chef’s exam lie to a lowly technician?

  159. Why howard was a hologramme

    Because he’s dead.

    why he was brought back in first place if he was just a vending machine repairman

    Either:
    1. He was the only dead crewmember on the Columbus 3.
    or
    2. His bunkmate was the only surviving crewmember, and he was brought back to keep him sane.

    why was he hard light

    He’s been around three million years. Maybe he bumped into Legion at some point, too. Or maybe the HL drive became widely available after Legion invented it (but before Red Dwarf was lost), and so his ship owned one.

    or where did the trojan come from

    That’s not a “plot hole”, that’s “something you don’t need to know and so aren’t told”. The crew don’t know either – it’s a derelict they found – so why should we know?

    Next you’ll be calling “What did Lister have for breakfast?” a plot hole. Not knowing something isn’t a plot hole.

    and the whole android tv channel thing and a few other things

    See, that’s not pointing out plot holes. That’s just naming stuff for no reason. Or, er, NOT naming stuff, in the case of the latter half of the sentence.

  160. I’m guessing for Seb this isn’t a hey ho pip and dandy moment.

  161. I’m not giving a gripe here, but you know, not been said yet. I’m not sure if it it was the way it was cut, or edited but there seemed to be a 2 line stumble occasions from Kryten, more in the first act. it seemed as though the first line delivered, there was a pause, but audible, just didn’t seem smooth, other than that the cast were silky smooth.

    It seems to be the way to go, but i don’t like they way we get cast name flash ups at the start. it somehow makes the watcher think that the names are bigger than the show. i know it isn’t but just because everyone does it, Red Dwarf has to. And because the flick up and different rates, Danny’s for example, it just distracts me. I didn’t like the font size either or the colour.

    I know it’s not really important, but it’s an opening, and I want to watch the show not a name flicking up for a second!

  162. It’s funny, I’ve seen a few people complaining about the actors names. My personal take is that they’ve been doing this for 25 years. They bloody well deserve to be given the star service treatment.

  163. >Especially since Rimmer is acting like the original rimmer not the nano Rimmer.

    Oh, who the fuck cares?

    I agree that the story elements could have done with some extra development. Especially with regard to Howard and the Simulant who was revealed as a baddie approximately 12 seconds after it was revealed there *was* a baddie. Also the discovery of Trojan itself is hidden away in a Kryten line. I come to Red Dwarf as a fan of the smart stories as well as the comedy. Series VIII badly mis-stepped by putting (shite) comedy ahead of story (“There’s a dinosaur on the ship… GO!”), so this trod a fine line for me. I’d have gladly sacrificed a couple of jokes for a bit more scene-setting.

  164. > I come to Red Dwarf as a fan of the smart stories as well as the comedy.

    I don’t think you’re going to be disappointed this time next week.

  165. It’s funny, I’ve seen a few people complaining about the actors names. My personal take is that they’ve been doing this for 25 years. They bloody well deserve to be given the star service treatment.

    No it’s just shit. We know who the guys are 110%. The opening credits for 3-6 are so slick and well done. One shot is Lister jumping on the sofa…..how exciting not. These opening credits remind me of 8’s – not good.

  166. I’m going to be accused of not having anything negative to say about the series, I know, but I really like the opening titles. I liked the names on the screen during BTE, and I like it now.

    My only problem with the titles is that the explosion shot at the end goes on too long. I’d have cut another couple of quick shots into it, just to break it up a bit.

  167. Why howard was a hologramme

    Because he’s dead.
    why he was brought back in first place if he was just a vending machine repairman
    Either:
    1. He was the only dead crewmember on the Columbus 3.
    or
    2. His bunkmate was the only surviving crewmember, and he was brought back to keep him sane.
    why was he hard light
    He’s been around three million years. Maybe he bumped into Legion at some point, too. Or maybe the HL drive became widely available after Legion invented it (but before Red Dwarf was lost), and so his ship owned one.
    or where did the trojan come from
    That’s not a “plot hole”, that’s “something you don’t need to know and so aren’t told”. The crew don’t know either – it’s a derelict they found – so why should we know?
    Next you’ll be calling “What did Lister have for breakfast?” a plot hole. Not knowing something isn’t a plot hole.
    and the whole android tv channel thing and a few other things
    See, that’s not pointing out plot holes. That’s just naming stuff for no reason. Or, er, NOT naming stuff, in the case of the latter half of the sentence.

    sadly because of your job and because u was there in the audiance i wouldnt expect you to negative towards the episode, but fair enough on the where did the trojan come from question as ships have mysteriously turned up before in red dwarf without reason but as for howards backstory stuff nah in the past the show has at least tried to cover up most holes like that and i can’t see why doug couldnt have done it very quick and easy with a throw away line

    and hold on some are saying he been around 3 million years? but i thought the green rod brought howard to rimmer?

  168. Both Rimmer and Lister’s backstories have been modified several times over the years, so it doesn’t bother me in the slightest that things have changed (and, let’s face it, only marginally) again here.

    Free as I am today, I’m currently on my 3rd rewatch of ‘Trojan’ on Dave’s catch-up service!! It can’t be stressed enough how brilliant Danny is, with him getting some of the biggest laughs in the episode. The Cat is BACK, *applause* to Danny and Doug for recapturing the character and using him in the right way once more! Also, serious props to Chris for his first scene, which, for me, is classic Rimmer (‘good luck not required, you metal munchkin’ ‘splendissimo’ etc.).

  169. oh yeah the cast were on top form, as was the humour mostly, ignoring some over the top acting from craig and robert for a moment

    krytens memory erase was great still makes me laugh

  170. The Cat is BACK, *applause* to Danny and Doug for recapturing the character and using him in the right way once more!

    This is so true! Whilst I thought the characterisation was all but faultless for the show, I could never have imagined the Cat being used so effectively. Perfectly played by Danny and Doug gave him loads of great material to work with. I struggle to think of another episode where Danny has been given so much to work with.

  171. No it’s just shit. We know who the guys are 110%. The opening credits for 3-6 are so slick and well done. One shot is Lister jumping on the sofa…..how exciting not. These opening credits remind me of 8′s – not good.

    You’re just shit.

    In your pants.

  172. Remove all the effects, all the sets, just concentrate on the writing for a moment.

    I only saw one recording and it was very difficult to judge, i kept away from every trailer and picture I could until i could see it unspoilt.

    For me BTE was pure comedy drama. But instantly this episode had more comedy per inch than the whole of BTE. I didn’t think it could be done, it’s not like writing a film script and it’s been a very long time since VIII.

    But within 5 minutes it was all there, the put downs, one liners which the fans can repeat for eternity. But something not always used was the continued comedy device of repeated jokes, the moose and the phone, it just worked for me, it blended, it didn’t feel awkward or even when you knew it was coming the delivery made you laugh.

    There are far many positive points from this first episode to keep me happy until next week!

  173. Perhaps my favourite moment in the whole episode is, in the ‘was he Swedish…? a moose!’ scene, how Danny has to wait ages for the audience to stop laughing before he says the next line. To me that sums up why the audience needs to be there. Just brilliant!

  174. There are far many positive points from this first episode to keep me happy until next week!

    Huzzah!!

    I watched on my own, at my flat. The whole of my family watched at my parents’, but I watched on my own, because I like to soak in everything, every line, the performances…everything. I’m the same when I’m watching Doctor Who.
    Plus, I know for a fact that when I was at Shepperton, I got caught up in the moment, and laughed a lot harder and louder than I normally would (you can’t hear a smile, right?). So, I sit on my own, and see how I react.

    I loved it. Not perfect, by any means, but a solid 7/10, at least. I laughed out loud several times, and the gormless grin on my face – no, a *different* one – was there for the duration of the episode.

    Roll on next week.

  175. Okay, delurking for my take on ‘Trojan’. Good, funny in a lot of places, but not great (though ‘great’ by Red Dwarf standards is hard to come by). I’m surprised it was episode 1 though, it feels more like a mid-season episode – only 3 sets, next to no action, mainly a character piece. That said, both ‘Camille’ and ‘Holoship’ were along those lines, so perhaps it’s not entirely surprising. I agree the first five minutes were a bit off, perhaps because it was the first thing shot for the series, but the moose gag took too long to set up (but had an excellent pay-off). I think a great opportunity was missed by holding Howard back till the last 10 minutes, given the scene where he first meets the crew was probably the best of the episode. There was a lot more that could have been done with the Howard-Arnold dynamic that there wasn’t time for. The whole ‘on hold’ gag I’m ambivalent about – I don’t think it’s funny as written, but Craig’s performance rescues it. There aren’t any plot holes, but there are plenty of ‘fridge logic’ details – which don’t bother me as they’ve always been all over Red Dwarf (have you ever stopped and thought how the whole of ‘Timeslides’ makes utterly no sense?)

    Minor points – sorry, but I don’t like Kryten’s mask. The guy playing Howard was generally good but seemed a bit off at times – he had this odd habit of staring out into the audience which bothered me. Nothing wrong with the ‘resentment crash’ plotline except it kept reminding me of the POS that was ‘Beyond a Joke’. There’s no sense of the scale of Red Dwarf (the ship) in the episode, the whole thing feels rather small, I hope that’s fixed in later episodes (a few corridor scenes would help). I think comparisons to a particular past series aren’t very helpful, but I tried to think what episode it most reminded me of (in style rather than plot). In the end I plumped for ‘Parallel Universe’. Overall – 6 out of 10.

  176. Dave Overnight:
    BTE Part 1 – 2.064m
    Trojan – 1.4m

    Dave Ja Vu Overnight
    BTE Part 1 – 342k
    Trojan – 69k

    Overall Overnight
    BTE Part 1 – 2.6m
    Trojan – 1.525m

    Worth noting that at least 200k viewers were lost on the Ja Vu because it is no longer available on Freeview.

    ITV4 achieved 2m at the same time with Liverpool fans enjoying their own comic character with a funny shaped head, Stewart Downing.

    Russell Howard’s Good News dropped to below 669k. One of its lowest figures in a long time. It achieved 989k last week.

    Was hoping for 2m but I didn’t expect the Europa League to be such a pull. Hopefully the two repeats can perform as well as the ‘Back to Earth’ repeats and pull the overall overnight reach to over 2m.

    Hopefully the good critical reception will also mean the ratings don’t drop too much from the premier.

  177. No it’s just shit. We know who the guys are 110%. The opening credits for 3-6 are so slick and well done. One shot is Lister jumping on the sofa…..how exciting not. These opening credits remind me of 8′s – not good.

    You’re just shit.
    In your pants.

    Please get it right. I am CACK.

  178. Just watched it again. I found everything pretty much worked. Best since series 6 no question…..19 years ago. Very happy.

    So Trojan is considered like the 2nd worst of the series?

  179. Damn, got those figures a little wrong. It was 1.46m for the overnight (not 1.4m as Broadcast say, no idea why they are rounding down) meaning that the 1.525m figure is just for the 9pm (+1) airing. This means it could go up another 100-200k from the 11:20 airing.

  180. Laughed my balls off (or would’ve done if I had any) Ok so the first 5 mins were a bit worrying, and the cast seemed to be acting more to the studio audience than camera, but all in all it was saturated with gags and that’s all that matters to me.

    Some great stuff for the Cat and the group ‘lean’ when the ship was meant to be turning was an amusing touch.
    Couple of ‘small points’ that I didn’t think of in time for the podcast last night. Was that a rushed reference to scramble cards in Backwards, just before the simulant was put out of action? Also I was always under the impression that Rimmer was the youngest of the brothers? But enough of this tot…..

    Rimmer IS the youngest of the Rimmer boys. Several fans have speculated, and I would agree, that perhaps a hologram “ages” after it’s activated, and the reason Howard looked younger is that he hadn’t been activated for nearly as long as Rimmer. (I’m not sure how long he was activated, but I kind of got the feeling it was maybe done by Crawford for the sole purpose of having a human to contact the Trojan for help?)

  181. Howard looked younger is that he hadn’t been activated for nearly as long as Rimmer. (I’m not sure how long he was activated, but I kind of got the feeling it was maybe done by Crawford for the sole purpose of having a human to contact the Trojan for help?)

    so at what point did he die? he says he jumped out of bed and hid under a table… its this sorta thing that sadly could have been quickly explained in a line or 2

  182. Is the trailer for next week’s anywhere online, please?

    Many thanks, Ridley. Roll on Thursday – looks like a good one.

  183. Quite amused that this ep is already being torrented.

  184. The problem with things like the racing and the droid shopping channel isn’t so much that it can’t be explained, but rather that for someone who doesn’t follow the show deeply it dilutes the premise. There isn’t any part of it that wouldn’t have worked in a series where the human race is still alive. The pig racing is presented as happening live when it must be a recording millions of years old.

    The droid shopping channel is current. It does fit that there is a droid shopping channel ship flying nearby, but only if you think about it.

    The humor actually seems funnier when the absurdity of the situations is spelled out a little more. Lister and a vending machine are betting on the outcome of a race that occurred millions of years before. The droid shopping channel is probably an automated ship passing by with no-one else listening or calling, but still they have him on hold despite it.

  185. Ok ive watched it a second time now and this time i proper enjoyed it. i think last night i was spending a lot of time picking out things i wanted to see. :) people are right that you need to watch it again to enjoy it. i still found the jokes funny and really enjoyed the episode. i do have a feeling that the Midget will be the main transport vehicle though as seen in the credits, otherwise im sure there may have been a Starbug cockpit scene (i have missed them).
    Im glad i have watched it again

  186. Quite amused that this ep is already being torrented.

    If I was a person in a country where Red Dwarf X didn’t have an air date yet, and it would be over a month until I could buy the blu-ray, I would probably torrent the newest episode of my all time favorite show.

    All if’s of course.

  187. ADMIN NOTE: Please don’t embed or link to illegal copies of the episodes on our site. If people want to find them, they’ll find them elsewhere.

  188. I cant believe i didnt pick up that Howards death played the Rimmer song from ‘Blue’ first time round i KNEW i recognised it before!

  189. I know G&T is a fansite and not an official site, but should that embedded video really be here?

    Somehow I don’t think the good relationship the gang have forged with Doug and the crew will be helped by it.

  190. Where’s an admin when you need one?

  191. Sorry i didnt know :(

    I cant remove the post

  192. Oh, how he’s changed! I knew he would :P

  193. The problem with things like the racing and the droid shopping channel isn’t so much that it can’t be explained, but rather that for someone who doesn’t follow the show deeply it dilutes the premise. There isn’t any part of it that wouldn’t have worked in a series where the human race is still alive. The pig racing is presented as happening live when it must be a recording millions of years old.

    The droid shopping channel is current. It does fit that there is a droid shopping channel ship flying nearby, but only if you think about it.
    The humor actually seems funnier when the absurdity of the situations is spelled out a little more. Lister and a vending machine are betting on the outcome of a race that occurred millions of years before. The droid shopping channel is probably an automated ship passing by with no-one else listening or calling, but still they have him on hold despite it.

    I don’t get it… you say these IU things are supposed to be happening in real time and then say the joke is that they’re not. I agree with the second half of what you said if that’s what you’re saying.

    I assumed the race was betting on something that had happened millions of years ago. As for the shopping channel I assumed there was a ship/transmitter/something floating in space and those that came within range of it were sent a signal which transmitted the adverts, which I assumed were pre-recorded and on a continuous loop. I assumed that Lister was speaking to droids/mechanoids on the phone. Actually, was it said that he was at some point?

    I was fine with both things and in fact found the idea of stumbling across a shopping channel in the middle of space as if it were a motorway service station to be an amusing idea. It would make sense if there were plenty of long haul space journeys that there’d be shopping opportunities dotted about. Clever business idea.

  194. I’ve watched many Red Dwarf Episodes if not all first time on television, and i never thought half of them were instant classics, you don’t. They take time to mellow, time to digest. instant reaction wasn’t available, no forums, no internet. i often wonder what the reaction would be now to an episode like The End and Me2, both unusual not on the instant brilliance scale but now regarded as historical documents.

  195. The problem with things like the racing and the droid shopping channel isn’t so much that it can’t be explained, but rather that for someone who doesn’t follow the show deeply it dilutes the premise. There isn’t any part of it that wouldn’t have worked in a series where the human race is still alive. The pig racing is presented as happening live when it must be a recording millions of years old.

    The droid shopping channel is current. It does fit that there is a droid shopping channel ship flying nearby, but only if you think about it.
    The humor actually seems funnier when the absurdity of the situations is spelled out a little more. Lister and a vending machine are betting on the outcome of a race that occurred millions of years before. The droid shopping channel is probably an automated ship passing by with no-one else listening or calling, but still they have him on hold despite it.
    I don’t get it… you say these IU things are supposed to be happening in real time and then say the joke is that they’re not. I agree with the second half of what you said if that’s what you’re saying.
    I assumed the race was betting on something that had happened millions of years ago. As for the shopping channel I assumed there was a ship/transmitter/something floating in space and those that came within range of it were sent a signal which transmitted the adverts, which I assumed were pre-recorded and on a continuous loop. I assumed that Lister was speaking to droids/mechanoids on the phone. Actually, was it said that he was at some point?
    I was fine with both things and in fact found the idea of stumbling across a shopping channel in the middle of space as if it were a motorway service station to be an amusing idea. It would make sense if there were plenty of long haul space journeys that there’d be shopping opportunities dotted about. Clever business idea.

    I mean that to us who know all the episodes of the show inside out, it makes sense.

    Imagine a relatively casual viewer though, to them this may as well be set in the Star Trek universe or something like that.

    I loved the episode, just had the feeling like a couple of extra explanatory lines or scenes were missing, while at the same time a couple of jokes were over-explained. Should be emphasized though that I am nit-picking here though, I did really enjoy the episode and think it’s better than anything post VI (except maybe Cassandra)

  196. the problem is that the show has been off air for over 10 years, not including BTE and so many fans watch this show and learnt alot about the characters, the history and stuff that when its brought back its hard almost take in

    the howard being a vending machine repair man thing is quite a big change to take in after so long time of being a fan, but you could say its not a big deal and that rimmers other brothers frank and john are still successful spacecore officers so it still gives rimmer reasons to be bitter and doesnt ruin anything

    but only doug knows what direction he was going with this

  197. why he was brought back in first place if he was just a vending machine repairman
    Either:
    1. He was the only dead crewmember on the Columbus 3.

    One of the first things Howard says over the communicator is that the crew is dead.

    2. His bunkmate was the only surviving crewmember, and he was brought back to keep him sane.

    That would be funny under the circumstances, but what bunkmate? The crew is dead.

    That’s not a “plot hole”, that’s “something you don’t need to know and so aren’t told”. The crew don’t know either – it’s a derelict they found – so why should we know?
    Next you’ll be calling “What did Lister have for breakfast?” a plot hole. Not knowing something isn’t a plot hole.
    and the whole android tv channel thing and a few other things

    What Lister had for breakfast has hardly the same bearing on this episode as the discovery of the Trojan.

  198. So just to be clear, would it now be acceptable (for those of us at the recording) to discuss things that were left out?

  199. >One of the first things Howard says over the communicator is that the crew is dead.

    Howard could already have been dead long before the accident that killed the rest of the crew.

    >That would be funny under the circumstances, but what bunkmate?

    I think this point is lost on you. Never mind.

    >What Lister had for breakfast has hardly the same bearing on this episode as the discovery of the Trojan.

    No, but there’s a difference between “Back story” and “plot holes”. Trojan may be sorely lacking in backstory, but that doesn’t automatically mean its resplendent with plot holes.

  200. >
    No, but there’s a difference between “Back story” and “plot holes”. Trojan may be sorely lacking in backstory, but that doesn’t automatically mean its resplendent with plot holes.

    Pity there is no like button on this site.

  201. Did John Hoare enjoy the episode? I hope he did.

  202. Watched the episode through 3 times now.

    Was laughing pretty much all the way through. Yeah, there’s some jokes that don’t quite work; the introduction of the moose gag is a tad weak, as is Lister being on hold, but they’re saved respectively by the callback during Rimmer’s revision and Craig’s performance. Howard was fantastic, the “twat” line sold me purely on the way it was delivered by him. I do wish we could’ve seen more of him, though. Crawford was alright, I particularly liked the way she sounded a bit like the female simulant from Gunmen and Rimmerworld.

    The acting does seem a bit pantomimey at times, especially with Kryten throwing a wobbly over the phone, but in all honesty I wasn’t that bothered because the majority of the episode was both entertaining and funny.

    Overall, I was very pleased indeed. Definitely a return to form, even if it isn’t perfect alongside stuff like Legion. It’s definitely got me hooked.

  203. I love all the sciency story stuff, as well as the comedy. Doug has some really nice theories.

    i would like to know what was not included in this showthat people saw at the recordings. Surely that can be talked about now?

  204. >Howard could already have been dead long before the accident that killed the rest of the crew.
    >That would be funny under the circumstances, but what bunkmate?
    I think this point is lost on you. Never mind.

    No, go ahead. I thought if an officer were to die they would replace a lower ranked crewmember as ship’s hologram. Howard was a vending machine repair man, so presumably he was outranked by everyone else unless his was a catering ship.

    >What Lister had for breakfast has hardly the same bearing on this episode as the discovery of the Trojan.
    No, but there’s a difference between “Back story” and “plot holes”. Trojan may be sorely lacking in backstory, but that doesn’t automatically mean its resplendent with plot holes.

    We agree here. I don’t think they’re plotholes either, though I did quote someone who called them that.

  205. I have’t read the last few comments, so someone may have already said this but:

    It was funny, so who cares about plot holes?

  206. Whatever happened to PIP?

  207. maybe they were not plot holes but just lack of back story as you say but its gonna be something people will be asking for years

    i think open questions can spoil somethings a little, i mean look at series 8 cliffhanger which has driven people nuts for years

    its like the inquisitor when kryten explained his back story so we understand who the character was but had we not have got that scene there we would all these questions of what is the inquisitor? where did he get the glove?, and even if you say the logic of it all aint spot on least you can say rob and doug made an effort to cover it and its one of my favorite episodes

  208. I love the Inquisitor because it was funny, to be honest.

    it was funny, but it had so much to explain about the plot and managed to do both

  209. My delayed tuppence worth: It was all rather hey-ho pip and dandy.

    An odd mash of series 7 and 8 with the earlier stuff…and a smidge of Back to Earth (though not much. What a strange beast BTE is going to be in the overall legacy…)

    The writing is the sharpest it’s been since 6. If only this had been Series 7, eh?

    Still, a couple of duff moments…but overall very strong.

    Some nitpicks – the audience laughter seemed strange.,,especially in the first scene.

    Was that the first scene filmed I wonder? The audience seems at fever pitch throughout…massive laughs for the most minor throwaway lines (“I lost a hundred dollarpounds on that one”?)

    The over-enthusiasm of the audience made it feel a bit Series 8…as well as the protracted nature of the gag.

    I used to like the differing levels of laughter for different jokes…gave the old shows a nice sense of comedy punctuation, as studio laughs should. Maybe the audience is a little over-enthusiastic, but I’m sure I would’ve been the same if I’d been there on the night.

    The performances are still a bit too broad for my tastes…and there’s a smidge of The Rimmer Experience about some of them.

    The overall structure of the episode was a bit pat-sitcom, with the running phone gag and the “impressing the boss who’s come to dinner” derivative…but nice character stuff, which is the meat n potatos of Dwarf. Cat and Kryten in particular are the best they’ve been since John Major was prime minister.

    But for every nitpick there’s a little detail I like, even in the opening scene (cat looking right then left as he says “left then right.”) And I will continue to believe that Rimmer said “Can you never ever succeed at ANYTHING, you useless rancid cancerous sack of SHIT?!”… despite what anyone says. Because it’s a better punchline.

    Model shots look great, looking forward to watching this series in HD.

    Next episodes looks fun. Is it as much of a Queeg remake as it seems?

    I am positively milking myself over the thought of the coming weeks entertainments.

    Dwarf is back, and I can enjoy it without self-apology or qualifications.

  210. (Kryten’s neck is too fat for a robot, though.)

  211. One thing I thought they could’ve done was explain why Howard was shot so easily if hard light is indestructible. I’m beginning to think that Arnie’s hard light is the ultra hard light that Legion developed, while Howard got the crappy JMC-issue hard light that was presumably developed after our Boyz left the solar system…

    Other than that, I had a great time. It’s rather fun being around when new episodes are being made, especially since all 8 series were already finished by the time I discovered the show.

  212. Also, I think we need a 404 page of spinning beachballs of death-eyed Rimmer for G&T.

  213. Nice review on the SFX site: Thttp://t.co/3puXVPH

  214. >Thttp

    Well, I’m not cleaning that up.

  215. Perhaps the Rimmer sibling should have been Alison to protect the ‘mythology’ as it were. ;)

    Next episodes looks fun. Is it as much of a Queeg remake as it seems?

    More 2001 (or holovirus Rimmer) than Queeg to me.

  216. Nice review on the SFX site:

    i have to agree with what they said here

    “occasionally there’s a feeling of “first rehearsal’ to the delivery while the pacing of some scenes was on the listless side. It just feels like it needs tightening up here and there, and not feel like a team who’ve been doing the same thing for 10 seasons defaulting to auto-mode.”

  217. Well maybe a bigger budget for XI could run to a new director, if only to take some of the weight of Doug’s shoulders.

    Rather oddly Trojan has made me wish a little more for Rob’s return. Not as a criticism of the product, but simply because we’re so, so close go having the band back together. It’s arrogance really. Purely to know if the few issues I have with X are down to the lack of Rob’s input or just the passing of time.

  218. >Next episodes looks fun. Is it as much of a Queeg remake as it seems

    Actually rather like how there’s few (if any?) jokes highlighted in the trailer. I mean, I assume and hope there’s a bundle of good ones in the episode, but Red Dwarf *can* trail well if the editing focuses on the drama. Not hugely keen on the “look” of Pree, though. And I’ve never been overly amused by Lister being his own father.

    So, y’know there’s still work to do…

  219. (and only a mention of the scutters)

    I seem to have missed this on multiple viewing. When was that?

    (Ugh, “scutter”.)

  220. I don’t think Scutters were mentioned, but scouters were.

  221. I think the “scutter” mention that SFX refer to is actually Kryten’s reference to the “scouters” at the end of the opening scene. Actually, thinking about it, did he say “skutters” or “scoutets”? I honestly can’t decide.

  222. >Thttp

    Well, I’m not cleaning that up.

    What a Dibbley.

  223. He said scouters.

    The scutters couldn’t find a derelict. They can’t even headbutt a wall successfully.

  224. Oh bollocks. I just can’t do tichscteen jrybiards.

  225. In regards to the Hard Light technology, Howard mentions how he thought Rimmer had gone missing along with Red Dwarf, so he must have died a few years after Rimmer and the others did. Presumably in the intervening years somebody, be it Legion or somebody else, must have invented the Hard Light Bee and made it available to the general public or at least standard issue in the Space Corps.

  226. Well maybe a bigger budget for XI could run to a new director, if only to take some of the weight of Doug’s shoulders.

    Rather oddly Trojan has made me wish a little more for Rob’s return. Not as a criticism of the product, but simply because we’re so, so close go having the band back together. It’s arrogance really. Purely to know if the few issues I have with X are down to the lack of Rob’s input or just the passing of time.

    I’m sure Rob will see this……wonder what he thinks? He did the Bodysnatchers DVD with Doug back in 2007 so things must be better between them. Be nice if Doug was like I’ve got it back to how we left it why don’t we try and write something? I bet Doug would as well but Rob appears to be such an arse. I don’t know what’s bigger his body mass or his ego.

  227. I enjoyed that. I laughed out loud many many times, which I did not expect, if I’m honest. The whole on hold thing was a bit silly and obvious, but nice all the same. I, like others had a problem with the fact that there were people and ships around, aside from the odd rotting simulant, the Dwarf universe has never been populated before.

    The hold music was a tiny beautiful touch, as was the munchkin music.

    But overall, it was good. The whole “meeting Howard” was very nicely done, I think, even if most of the jokes were pretty obvious (Cat not listening, Kryten is crap, Lister is clueless, Rimmer’s a goit). But I’ve told myself that this is the first episode back, therefore it’s bound to be slow as they need to pick up new viewers.

    But it was better than any of Series 8, with the possible exception of Cassandra.

  228. > I bet Doug would as well but Rob appears to be such an arse. I don’t know what’s bigger his body mass or his ego.

    I think it’s a little unfair to assume someone is ‘an arse’ or has a big ego simply because they have not yet decided to return to a TV project that they have had nothing to do with for 19 years.

    If I decided to leave my job today, and then 19 years later, a group of people remembered that I once did the job and that I was good at if and they all thought I should come back to it, I would be rather bemused if those people then decided I was ‘an arse’ when I showed no interest in returning to it.

    As far as I am aware, Rob Grant has never shown any hostility towards Red Dwarf or anyone involved in making it, nor has he made any public declarations about not wanting to be involved – he appears to have chosen to take his life in a different direction. I don’t see how that leads you to make assumptions about his ego.

    He does indeed appear to have a large body mass, which clearly is very pertinent to this issue.

  229. >I think it’s a little unfair to assume someone is ‘an arse’ or has a big ego simply because they have not yet decided to return to a TV project that they have had nothing to do with for 19 years

    It’s not a little unfair, it’s just fucking unreasonable.

  230. > I bet Doug would as well but Rob appears to be such an arse. I don’t know what’s bigger his body mass or his ego.

    I think it’s a little unfair to assume someone is ‘an arse’ or has a big ego simply because they have not yet decided to return to a TV project that they have had nothing to do with for 19 years.

    No I didn’t. I got the impression from many interviews I’ve seen of his over the years that he is full of self importance. Just look at the interview on Pebble Mill from 1991. Doug on the other hand is so much more approachable. I am pretty sure the main reason Rob won’t come back is because he said he didn’t want to be just remembered for Red Dwarf – coming back for him is like saying he was wrong.

  231. Yes, because not fawning over Alan Titchmarsh on some shitty programme means you are a self-important arse.

    I met Rob at a Backwards book signing and he came across very well. He’s not Mr Charisma in interviews. But it’s not his job to be. Doug being more comfortable in interviews means diddly squat.

    Stop talking shit.

  232. Stop talking shit.

    Sadly my username denotes that is never gonna happen.

  233. Something tells me you don’t know Rob Grant or have any basis for your unreasonable criticism of him.

  234. Something tells me you don’t know Rob Grant or have any basis for your unreasonable criticism of him.

    What if he is Rob Grant and is doing this to bolster his own ego?

  235. Good point. Is he?

    It’s certainly something an egomaniac like him would do.

  236. > Not hugely keen on the “look” of Pree

    I am.

  237. The problem with things like the racing and the droid shopping channel isn’t so much that it can’t be explained, but rather that for someone who doesn’t follow the show deeply it dilutes the premise. There isn’t any part of it that wouldn’t have worked in a series where the human race is still alive. The pig racing is presented as happening live when it must be a recording millions of years old.

    See, I thought the joke was that that race happened millions of years ago and Lister’s still so bored he’ll bet on something for which he could already know the outcome.

  238. So just to be clear, would it now be acceptable (for those of us at the recording) to discuss things that were left out?

    I can’t believe nobody’s responded, but maybe I’m the only commenter who didn’t see the taping. I’d like to know some of those things. :-)

  239. Am I right in thinking an entire character has been exorcised from the show? Would this be the performance that brought to mind “a certain series VIII performance” or however it was phrased in the set report?

  240. Also, why are we assuming that Howard’s crew that were wiped out two days ago were living humans? They could have all been holograms for all we know? That, or the quantum rod thingymajig brought Howard hurtling forward in time by 3 million years without his knowledge.

  241. G&T Admin

    Am I right in thinking an entire character has been exorcised from the show? Would this be the performance that brought to mind “a certain series VIII performance” or however it was phrased in the set report?

    You’re correct. We shied away from talking too much about that cut scene in the DwarfCast but I’d say it might be worth waiting a while. If anyone can remember the other major cut scene, though, that’s fair game.

    That, or the quantum rod thingymajig brought Howard hurtling forward in time by 3 million years without his knowledge.

    That’s definitely how I’m reading it.

  242. I decided (maybe cause I’m mad) to buy Trojan from iTunes and I’ve now seen it in HD with 5.1 sound. Very impressive, especially on a 40″ screen. I love the sound mix; the audience being in the back channels helping things mightily.

    Sadly it becomes more apparent how dodgy Kryten’s whole look is… Bobby seemed pretty on edge with his performance too. Maybe he was (understandably) nervous, with this being the first episode and all. Perhaps the new getup was annoying him. He seems to be struggling to walk in the first Kryten/Rimmer scene. Yes, Kryten’s meant to have a funny walk, but when he grabs onto the chair back you can see Bobby visibly go *phew* ‘glad I can lean on this for a minute’. Maybe it’s just his age…;)

  243. I’m disappointed we won’t be seeing Hattie, but I’ll reserve judgment.

    Those model shots were totally Trojan – and when I say Trojan, I mean awesome.

    I did hear Rimmer say ‘sick’ and not ‘shit’, but I can’t make out the word between ‘useless’ and ‘cancerous’.

  244. ‘Rancid’ is the word you’re looking for…;)

    Incidentally, it took a 4th viewing before I heard Lister say ‘I’ll go and get me paintbrush’ at the end of the episode. I think it’s cause I was too busy laughing at Chris the other times!

    It’s interesting how I instinctively said ‘Chris’ then rather than ‘Rimmer’. Sometimes I think we’ve been so spoiled with behind-the-scenes stuff that it is quite hard to look at them as characters and, indeed, accept new adventures. Even on first viewing I was thinking of what the cast would be saying on the commentary about what number face Chris was pulling and Danny coming in with the salad etc. It doesn’t help that I’ve been listening to the 3, 4, 5 & 6 commentaries the last couple of weeks. Gah…

  245. Is it explained in the Dwarfcast what scenes people think have been left out?

  246. There’s a gallery on the Dave site of Behind the Scenes photos, all purporting to be from Trojan. One of them features a scene and character not in the episode. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess tjat this is the scenr/character/performance that’s been cut?

    Said photo, by the way, was also in the ‘Rimmer’ gallery a couple of weeks ago

  247. Oh yes. I’m getting a “Data Doctor” vibe considering the context of Rimmer’s condition.

  248. Still love the episode, but has anyone noticed Sim Crawford walking out of shot again, as the Cat walks over to the door before leaving to get another felt tip, after having already teleported away? If so, apologies for pointing it out again.

  249. Not sure if its been mentioned elsewhere but we know for certain Chris wears a wig in the episodes now don’t we? Sorry to bring up that old debate again… but he was obviously wearing the wig for the in-costume appearances the cast made on Wednesday. Plus it’s pretty clear on the HD version.

  250. guess tjat this is the scenr

    This is exactly why I avoided buying a touchscreen mobile for so long.

  251. Ive just watched it again, Howards ‘salad section’ joke still makes me laugh! reminds me of the series VI style British humour. The comparison jokes always made me laugh :)

  252. Still love the episode, but has anyone noticed Sim Crawford walking out of shot again, as the Cat walks over to the door before leaving to get another felt tip, after having already teleported away? If so, apologies for pointing it out again.

    I’d not seen that anywhere, but you’re right!

    Look!

    Yay for the continuity error!!

  253. Here’s a small thing I remembered that didn’t make it into the ep (and I haven’t seen it mentioned or heard it on the Dwarfcast…yet). At the recording, when Howard and Crawford asks for a tour of the Trojan, Rimmer replies that they can’t because the floors have just been mopped/they are still wet, or something along those lines. I remember this getting quite a big laugh (from me anyway). This appears to have been replaced by the ‘We mainly use it as a corridor’ scene, which I’m fairly sure we were not shown, either live of pre-taped. It got me to thinking that this line may have just been for the benefit of the audience as they had not yet recorded the corridor scene.

  254. G&T Admin

    We address this a little bit in the Dwarfcast; the bit about Rimmer not being able to show Howard the whole ship (hence the floors being mopped excuse) was snipped because the method used for pretending the Trojan is functional has changed. Originally, it was going to be in Red Dwarf’s cargo bay, with the doors open, so that half of the ship’s portholes would show space. When it got changed to it being towed, there was no reason why half the ship would be out of commission.

  255. One thing I noticed at the beginning is Lister saying “Dollarpounds”. I know this is from the books, but would this be the first time it’s been used in the show? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty certain it is.

  256. Is it just me or does Kryten’s mask look a little different in the Crawford shooting scene than it does in the rest of the show?
    It’s like the space between his cheek and his brow is larger.

  257. >One thing I noticed at the beginning is Lister saying “Dollarpounds”. I know this is from the books, but would this be the first time it’s been used in the show? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty certain it is.

    In White Hole, Lister uses the phrase; ‘Sound as a Dollarpound’.

  258. One thing I noticed at the beginning is Lister saying “Dollarpounds”. I know this is from the books, but would this be the first time it’s been used in the show? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty certain it is.

    “This arm is as sound as a dollarpound!” – White Hole

    I swear he uses it in an early series as well… I may be wrong.

    EDIT: Kaplan got there first. Bastard.

  259. RIMMER: This is from me. I picked it up on a trip to Europe. One rival collector once offered me 1,000 dollarpounds for it.

    – The Last Day

  260. One thing I noticed at the beginning is Lister saying “Dollarpounds”. I know this is from the books, but would this be the first time it’s been used in the show? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty certain it is.

    As far as I know, the only other use of dollarpound was in the Talkie Toaster’s reboot sequence it White Hole… It’s listed that his sugggested retail price is $£19.99.

  261. I guess I got a bit mixed up; I remembered Lister using the term “quid” in ‘Marooned’, so I assumed “dollarpounds” was only used in the books. Slightly more embarrassing since I recently rewatched these episodes again, for the zillionth time!

  262. $£ was again used on the shopping channle pricing visuals.

    I loved the Gerald Hampton naming. And the chopstick pole vault gag.

    I like the fact the cat was carrying the You are Here sign, surely they only work when mounted on a fixed point.

  263. I loved the Gerald Hampton naming.

    David Listerton-Smythe got a massive laugh from me.

  264. Here’s something that (I think)’s interesting…

    Those screengrabs from the episode that I got (up there a bit, go and look if you want) from the Dave site give the full episode length as 29min 54secs. And that includes the mid-show title card that led into and out of the ad break.

    Yet, when the BBFC listed Trojan a while ago (before removing it again a short time later, but as recorded by G&T here: http://www.ganymede.tv/2012/08/bbfc-reveals-three-more-red-dwarf-x-episode-titles/), they listed a time of 29min 59 seconds.
    That’s a bit confusing. If anything, the DVD version should be a little shorter, shouldn’t it?

  265. At the preview airing (which I assume is the version which will appear on the dvd) weren’t the ad break title cards replaced with model shots?

  266. The iTunes version is 29 minutes 51 seconds. The ad break is replaced by a quick model shot.

  267. The model shot is the first shot of part two.

  268. G&T Admin

    At the preview airing (which I assume is the version which will appear on the dvd) weren’t the ad break title cards replaced with model shots?

    Nope, we had the proper ad breaks, complete with title cards, with just a second of black in between.

    The iTunes versions will almost certainly be the same as the DVD/Bluray verisons.

  269. I hope that at some point next series, Rimmer says he’s failed the exam eight times and it’s revealed that Kryten is programmed to agree with whatever number Rimmer says.

    Btw, why does he sniff the exam results before reading them?

  270. Just spotted another slight continuity error.

    When Rimmer is talking about how Howard painted his todger, Cat is leaning in. Kryten has his right hand on the top of Rimmer’s chair, its there all the time until it disappears! Next shot it’s back on the top of the chair.

  271. G&T Admin

    Btw, why does he sniff the exam results before reading them?

    They’re also printed in Cat. It’s political correctness gone mad.

  272. This was my actual knee-jerk reaction! In my defense, series 1 is series I most recently rewatched.

  273. Are there going to be polls regarding this series? Rate the episodes like with BTE? Favourite episode poll at the end of the series?

  274. G&T Admin

    Shit, I completely forgot about those…

  275. Just spotted another slight continuity error.

    When Rimmer is talking about how Howard painted his todger, Cat is leaning in. Kryten has his right hand on the top of Rimmer’s chair, its there all the time until it disappears! Next shot it’s back on the top of the chair.

    Another. Howard and Rimmer are facing Crawford, you can see the crew in the reflection of the ships windows.

  276. Just spotted another slight continuity error.

    When Rimmer is talking about how Howard painted his todger, Cat is leaning in. Kryten has his right hand on the top of Rimmer’s chair, its there all the time until it disappears! Next shot it’s back on the top of the chair.

    Also, after Howard says “You were such a weasel”, Lister’s hair magically moves from back to front.

    Another. Howard and Rimmer are facing Crawford, you can see the crew in the reflection of the ships windows.

    I can’t find this one.

  277. I can’t find this one.

    24:53 in the iTunes version,
    24:59 in the YouTube/Dave version.

  278. Just spotted another slight continuity error.

    When Rimmer is talking about how Howard painted his todger, Cat is leaning in. Kryten has his right hand on the top of Rimmer’s chair, its there all the time until it disappears! Next shot it’s back on the top of the chair.
    Also, after Howard says “You were such a weasel”, Lister’s hair magically moves from back to front.
    Another. Howard and Rimmer are facing Crawford, you can see the crew in the reflection of the ships windows.
    I can’t find this one.

    Someone alert Robert Webb immediately!

  279. G&T Admin

    >So…what did John think?

    His silence is rather incriminating.

    Part of the reason I haven’t posted yet is that my work pattern means I was at work for 84 hours last week!

    Only actually seen Trojan once because of this. Need to watch it again before giving MY FINAL COMMENTS WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH.

  280. >Only actually seen Trojan once because of this. Need to watch it again before giving MY FINAL COMMENTS WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH.

    Ohh, dear…

  281. Just spotted another slight continuity error.

    When Rimmer is talking about how Howard painted his todger, Cat is leaning in. Kryten has his right hand on the top of Rimmer’s chair, its there all the time until it disappears! Next shot it’s back on the top of the chair.
    Also, after Howard says “You were such a weasel”, Lister’s hair magically moves from back to front.
    Another. Howard and Rimmer are facing Crawford, you can see the crew in the reflection of the ships windows.
    I can’t find this one.
    Someone alert Robert Webb immediately!

    Does he pay £250 for each boob? Or is that just French plastic surgeons?

  282. Does he pay £250 for each boob? Or is that just French plastic surgeons?

    B’dum-tish!

  283. > Need to watch it again before giving MY FINAL COMMENTS WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH.

    One thing I know I’ll agree with is that it should have been shot at 50i (interlaced video look, i.e. series’ 1-6 & 8); model shots aside. BtE suited the film effect due to the different sort of episode Doug was setting out to make. Series X (well, ‘Trojan’ at least) is very much a sitcom and IMO would have suited interlaced. I wonder if they even did a test at 50i…

  284. Not sure if its been mentioned elsewhere but we know for certain Chris wears a wig in the episodes now don’t we? Sorry to bring up that old debate again… but he was obviously wearing the wig for the in-costume appearances the cast made on Wednesday. Plus it’s pretty clear on the HD version.

    My thoughts exactly. Everyone has gone quiet on the wig issue, almost as though they don’t think it’s important…. Should we get out more?

  285. I guess he must be but I don’t know why. I don’t believe he wore a wig for BTE and his hair looked perfectly Rimmer-y in that, and I’d say Chris Barrie’s hairline is more or less the same now as then. His hair in RDX is a little distracting in how unnatural it appears.

  286. I said it was a piece. [Smug wanker mode]

    I didn’t find it distracting though; all in all Chris was superb in the episode. I do wish there had been more of the Arnold/Howard stuff in there, he did really well with it.

    Does no one feel like dishing on who the excised “shades of series VIII” character was?

  287. G&T Admin

    I said it was a piece. [Smug wanker mode]

  288. I said it was a piece. [Smug wanker mode]

    I didn’t find it distracting though; all in all Chris was superb in the episode. I do wish there had been more of the Arnold/Howard stuff in there, he did really well with it.
    Does no one feel like dishing on who the excised “shades of series VIII” character was?

    On the official site there is a photo from this episode with Rimmer in a dentist type chair with a doctor next to him. Presumably it was something similar to the data doctor.

  289. Congrats to Ian for getting the Pointless gif in somewhere.

  290. One thing I thought they could’ve done was explain why Howard was shot so easily if hard light is indestructible. I’m beginning to think that Arnie’s hard light is the ultra hard light that Legion developed, while Howard got the crappy JMC-issue hard light that was presumably developed after our Boyz left the solar system…

    This explanation works well for me. I didn’t like how a single gunshot made Howard “holo-bleed” and then “die”. Especially when Rimmer/Ace’s hardlight drive emerged completely unscathed from covering a grenade explosion in Emohawk!

  291. It’s a wig?!

  292. G&T Admin

    Brief thoughts, then, although I suspect they’ve all been said by now:

    By FAR the weakest part of the episode was the phone stuff for me – so much so that it threatened to sabotage the whole episode. I don’t get WHY Lister had to wait that long – surely shopping channels want you off the phone as quickly as possible so you can ring again to make another purchase? It feels very much like Doug has confused teleshopping and tech support.

    This sadly feeds into one of my pet bugbears, which has put me off other things before now – grumpy old man syndrome. Specifically, in this case, out-of-touch grumpy old man syndrome, moaning about something that DOESN’T EXIST. The more I think about the plot, the less it works for me.

    To be honest, a lot of my problems stem from this. I wanted FAR more interaction between Arnold and Howard – spending less time on the phone nonsense would have helped with this. And the climax falls completely flat for me also because of both these issues. (Though I did like Rimmer’s final words to Howard. Also, I didn’t mind the revelation that Howard was a loser too, as that made total sense to me from a character point of view – and the finale (admittedly just about) restores the status quo.)

    The heart of the show could have been THE big discussion between Arnold and Howard. And we didn’t get it.

    Spinning beach balls of doom I could REALLY do without – it all felt far too specific to today. Maybe that wouldn’t matter if it was just a tech thing – but once you apply it to a CHARACTER, it really didn’t sit right with me at all. I just don’t want to think of Rimmer that way. A minor thing, perhaps – I didn’t have that much problem with the resentment thing per se – but it made me cringe rather. And I find cringes difficult to get past.

    For all that, there were things I liked. (The “gave him a hat” line is my favourite line in Red Dwarf since VI, Bodysnatcher aside. Kryten and Cat get some of their best moments for ages. And so on.) I guess the real test will be Ep 2 – are my issues with that particular plot, or are they endemic to the series? I’ll have a better idea of how I feel about the series then.

    I came out of the episode disappointed… partly because of the glimpses of greatness that the show could have achieved.

  293. G&T Admin

    (I am, of course, ignoring a lot of the trimmings above, for want of a better word. Models were great, a couple of the Starbug ones aside. Sets were marvellous. Music was above and beyond what I expected. I don’t think the 25p and slightly dark grading helps the comedy, but OBVIOUSLY I AM GOING TO SAY THAT. It really is nice to see Red Dwarf still looks like nothing else on television – and yes, proves audience sitcom can be more than someone’s fucking living room.)

  294. I don’t think Doug confused teleshopping with tech support at all. We all know the frustrations of dealing with automated telephone systems – be it tech support, banking, customer services et al – yet he coupled it with the teleshopping because he had some amusing ideas to inject re: teleshopping along the way (ie. the preposterous items people will buy, the cheesy infomercials etc). Why/who would Lister be calling for tech support?

    He killed two birds with one stone and allowed the running B-plot to directly influence the outcome of the A-plot, tying it all together so it wasn’t throwaway. Whether you think it was successfully integrated at the conclusion is another thing, as I know some people think it was out of character for Lister to jeopardise himself and others for the sake of taking the phonecall. Without the buildup though that scene wouldn’t have even slightly worked and personally I loved Lister’s frustration at the climax (which I’ve seen described as pantomime-esque) but could have admittedly done without the silly 360 degree shuffle.

  295. The beachball eyes would have worked a lot better for Holly but of course that isn’t possible. That said, I thought it was very funny which is all I’m actually looking for.

  296. G&T Admin

    I don’t think Doug confused teleshopping with tech support at all. We all know the frustrations of dealing with automated telephone systems – be it tech support, banking, customer services et al – yet he coupled it with the teleshopping because he had some amusing ideas to inject re: teleshopping along the way (ie. the preposterous items people will buy, the cheesy infomercials etc). Why/who would Lister be calling for tech support?

    I’m definitely not saying LIster *should* have been calling tech support – that would make no sense whatsoever, as you say. I’m saying it’s an awful plot full stop that took far too much screen time away from what SHOULD have been the plot – Arnold and Howard.

    I would be more forgiving about the plot if any of it had made me laugh, but it it didn’t. And in 2012, I just don’t think there are any salient points left to make about automated phone systems. Yes, they’re frustrating. And? Red Dwarf can make cleverer points than this.

  297. I can understand the phone sub-plot being considered weak and admittedly, it felt a bit weird for Red Dwarf. But having just watched the episode for the sixth time, I still enjoy it because overall it brought some funny moments which, if I don’t laugh at after multiple viewings, I still smile at – e.g. Kryten getting pissed off and Lister’s rant, even though the 360 feels a bit too staged, I still find it funny. Both moments do come dangerously close to being over-the-top, but I think Craig and Robert do a good enough job with their performances that it doesn’t feel that way.

    That’s not to say I think the phone thing is a strong B-Plot, but if it makes me laugh, or at least brings some funny moments that I still enjoy in repeated viewings, then I don’t care. I can see what you’re saying though, John. I would’ve liked to have seen more between Rimmer and Howard and I can’t disagree about more clever points being made.

  298. I think John is right with the phone plot, it is distracting from the main feature, it’s nothing new, it’s been done to death. I’m surprised they didn’t twist it a little, most of it was telegraphed. I’m not saying the cast didn’t do a good job with what they had, they did.
    The moose gag was perfectly pitched, thanks mainly to Cat, but the phone just dragged. I would have happier if Howard was expanded more or even the other brothers mentioned, where they really captains? The line between Rimmer being of low self esteem was crossed, his being is living his life next to his peers, this was broken in one scene.
    You could argue the brain drain helped him rid his problems, too thin. Crawford under used for me, i wanted Rimmer to use his charms, swoon her, maybe even steal her from Howard. Basically more.

  299. The phone stuff is a little misjudged (even ignoring whether this type of observational comedy is befitting for the show at all) and I would agree that it takes over far too much of the episode. It gets equal footing as the Howard stuff which is a big misstep. An episode of Red Dwarf should not have “Lister waits on a phone line” as one of the main plot lines… Especially at the expense of a proper finale and some decent backstory.

    And doesn’t Lister spend a high proportion of his time waiting to complain (rather than actually order)?

    Trojan is crammed full of ideas (Moose, Phone, Quantum rod, Resentment drive, Howard, simulant uprising). Some of these compliment the episode, some of them add very little and some of them need to be expanded on greatly. I want to see the deleted scenes to see what bits of story we missed – and that’s never happened with Red Dwarf before. Deleted scenes have usually meant “comedy” and “character moments”.

    The problem with the episode is in the flabby first few scenes. We need to meet Howard by at least the ten minute mark because that’s when the episode comes alive and when the comedy actually derives from the story instead of feeling a little skittish (which the phone stuff feels like).

  300. I think John is right with the phone plot, it is distracting from the main feature, it’s nothing new, it’s been done to death. I’m surprised they didn’t twist it a little, most of it was telegraphed. I’m not saying the cast didn’t do a good job with what they had, they did.

    The moose gag was perfectly pitched, thanks mainly to Cat, but the phone just dragged. I would have happier if Howard was expanded more or even the other brothers mentioned, where they really captains? The line between Rimmer being of low self esteem was crossed, his being is living his life next to his peers, this was broken in one scene.
    You could argue the brain drain helped him rid his problems, too thin. Crawford under used for me, i wanted Rimmer to use his charms, swoon her, maybe even steal her from Howard. Basically more.

    How would he have “stolen” her from Howard? We see she was the one manipulating things on Howard’s end (literary reference FTW, heh – sorry, distracted myself). She had no desire to be lured anywhere or even to be working with Howard – she wanted to take over and be in charge. Had it not been for the Cat coming up behind her, she would’ve likely succeeded.

  301. I love that Howard pulls faces but they’re not the same faces as Arnold’s. That’s a very smart and funny detail.

    I actually enjoyed the b plot with Lister on hold, but I do agree that it’s a shame we don’t see more of Howard. I don’t suppose it will happen, but I wish Doug would bring Howard back somehow – as a flashback, in an alternate reality, any way he could think of. Apart from learning more of Rimmer’s back story through his conversations with his brother, Dexter’s performance was really enjoyable and it would be so nice to see him flesh out the Howard character.

  302. The problem with the episode is in the flabby first few scenes. We need to meet Howard by at least the ten minute mark because that’s when the episode comes alive and when the comedy actually derives from the story

    Totally agree with this.

  303. Interesting points and I would agree that having too many sketch comedy ideas (for want of a better phrase) hurt the plot. The pig racing, moose joke, phone storyline, touch telepathy etc. are all things that don`t really move the plot along. Obviously you can have those things in a sit-com (I`m not suggesting the moose joke should have gone) but if you have too many then the pacing problems begin the whole thing feels rushed as it did here.

  304. The touch telepathy was pretty superfluous but I wondered if Doug was seeding in the concept to return to it later.

  305. On the topic of observational humour, the thought occurs that as early as Series II, Dwarf actually did a joke about airline food.

  306. I think John is right with the phone plot, it is distracting from the main feature, it’s nothing new, it’s been done to death. I’m surprised they didn’t twist it a little, most of it was telegraphed. I’m not saying the cast didn’t do a good job with what they had, they did.

    The moose gag was perfectly pitched, thanks mainly to Cat, but the phone just dragged. I would have happier if Howard was expanded more or even the other brothers mentioned, where they really captains? The line between Rimmer being of low self esteem was crossed, his being is living his life next to his peers, this was broken in one scene.
    You could argue the brain drain helped him rid his problems, too thin. Crawford under used for me, i wanted Rimmer to use his charms, swoon her, maybe even steal her from Howard. Basically more.
    How would he have “stolen” her from Howard? We see she was the one manipulating things on Howard’s end (literary reference FTW, heh – sorry, distracted myself). She had no desire to be lured anywhere or even to be working with Howard – she wanted to take over and be in charge. Had it not been for the Cat coming up behind her, she would’ve likely succeeded.

    But one of Rimmer’s life goals is trouser play, he’s lusted over just about every woman on the show. I just felt that after the enchanté line he was going to take the next step, love triangle, and also brought Howard into it more.

    They could touch, FEEL. Howard seemed to think she was his property. You should get yourself a sim line. I know this denotes ownership, but as a woman and him the male counterpart connotations reach beyond mere possession. Just came across and Howard’s toy, he was shocked when she turned against him, so trust and expectation must have been achieved previously. again at the end, Lister using as the toy, a slave to do his work. Just seems were are meant to think because a sim killing machine, the female part is removed, maybe mentally but not physically.

  307. I agree with a few people here as my main problem with the teleshopping plot was that it detracted from the Howard/Rimmer plot. Another 5 minutes seeing those two interact would have been great but I did find the subplot surprisingly funny so I don’t have too much of a problem with it. In my opinion, having less focus on that subplot would have meant the payoff rant wouldn’t have really worked so I feel the inclusion of the plot would have to pretty much be all or nothing and we got all. This is a bit of a shame as Rimmer’s plot was more than enough for the episode to work with but hey, I found the subplot funny so I won’t be losing any sleep over what could have been and the entire episode was still (imo) the best Dwarf we’ve had since 1993 (I love Tikka but Trojan didn’t make me cringe, Tikka does quite a bit) and is probably equal to or maybe even better than a couple of pre-1993 episodes.

    Now tonight’s episode… I’m a bit concerned. Having seen it filmed it was great but I don’t know how long it ran and, with 3 plots running, I hope they haven’t had to cut stuff to fit it all in. To be honest, one of the plots could be completely cut which would be a shame but I’d rather get all the material for the main two plots rather than lose material from them to fit in the third.

  308. Series X and its subplots worries me a little. Red Dwarf barely touched them until Series VIII. Waiting For God being a rare exception.

    (Go on, prove me wrong).

  309. Inquisitor? That’s the best I can do!

  310. Series X and its subplots worries me a little. Red Dwarf barely touched them until Series VIII. Waiting For God being a rare exception.

    (Go on, prove me wrong).

    Me2 and White Hole spring to mind.

  311. >Inquisitor? That’s the best I can do!

    What’s the subplot in that?

    >Me2

    Lister being confused by Rimmer’s final words being the plot B, I guess? That’s a good example of one working really well as it has a strong link to plot A and resolves itself with it.

    >White Hole

    Holly’s intelligence spike/the engines being dead/the ship being sucked into a white hole? Oh, good one. The structure of White Hole is bizarre and that’s before you get to the ending where two of these plots are reset with the conclusion of the other one.

    Ok, two more examples and “barely touched them” is clearly wrong.

  312. I personally don’t mind subplot so’s long as they work and don’t rely on weak observational humour in the way it did in Trojan. It is better if they intertwine with one another though because it makes them complement one another. I feel that the fact that the earlier series X episodes seem heavy on them maybe has something to do with the fact it’s been so long that Doug Naylor has written stand alone episodes for a half hour format. It only makes sense that he would start off a little rusty.

  313. Hey guys, I’m a relatively long time lurker but all the excitement about X has encouraged me to come out of the hermits cave I’ve been living in.

    I was particularly interested by this chit-chat about sub plots within Red Dwarf and I was wondering whether Stasis Leak counts. After all, Rimmer and Lister both pursue alternate agendas linked by a single concept. Could that count as a main plot and sub-plot do you think?

  314. I was particularly interested by this chit-chat about sub plots within Red Dwarf and I was wondering whether Stasis Leak counts. After all, Rimmer and Lister both pursue alternate agendas linked by a single concept. Could that count as a main plot and sub-plot do you think?

    Hmmmm……that kinda like the same plot forking off into 2 different directions, much like Backwards did

  315. The argument that there were no sub-plots or parallel secondary story threads is demonstrably untrue.

    Waiting for God, Me2, Better Than Life, Stasis Leak, Justice, Nanarchy, Back in the Red, Krytie TV and Pete all have examples. Also, minor elements in Backwards, Marooned and DNA too.,

  316. >On the topic of observational humour, the thought occurs that as early as Series II, Dwarf actually did a joke about airline food.

    That’s a joke, though. Not half an episode. Whether or not observational humor suits Dwarf (it’s a fair discussion to have), it’s easy to brush a line or two aside and enjoy the rest of the episode. It’s far less easy to brush aside half the runtime.

  317. >Waiting for God…Back in the Red, Krytie TV and Pete all have examples

    Already cited in my post and I was excluding VIII because it’s excrement.

    Think it’s a bit different if a story idea generates two plots (as in Stasis Leak and Better Than Life) and that’s rather different to Trojan’s two plots that have nothing to do with each other. I was really after two unrelated plots which switch back and forth to the forefront like we saw in Trojan.

    Justice is a good example of an episode that starts off being about one thing and then doesn’t return to that until the last five minutes. One plot leads into the other…and then back again.

  318. G&T Admin

    This is VERY INTERESTING, and tonight’s episode will keep this conversation going for some considerable time.

  319. >Inquisitor? That’s the best I can do!

    What’s the subplot in that?

    I was thinking the other Lister and Kryten.

    Still, your totally right, it seems the Series is taking this direction, and substituting the running plot. You realise that’s all we’re going to be looking for tonight?

  320. >You realise that’s all we’re going to be looking for tonight?

    Well, according to John’s set report that’s what we’re going to get.

  321. I’d say that Fathers & Suns as it stood at the recording had two equal footing A-plots plus a lesser third plot too; the installation of Pree being one, the Lister father-son dynamic being the other main plot and a third running thread on a smaller scale which I haven’t seen revealed online yet so I’ll keep schtum.

    The edit could unbalance that, of course.

  322. The edit could unbalance that, of course.

    That’s what I’m afraid of. The two main plots both felt evenly handled as you said and I’d hate for one to lose out due to time constraints or the like as they were both worthy plots. Not long until I find out!

  323. There are three scenes which would be a crime to cut so I’m hoping they survived intact, as unsure as I was about one of them.

  324. This explanation works well for me. I didn’t like how a single gunshot made Howard “holo-bleed” and then “die”. Especially when Rimmer/Ace’s hardlight drive emerged completely unscathed from covering a grenade explosion in Emohawk!

    But it wasn’t a grenade, it was the Emohawk.

  325. G&T Admin

    I would be more forgiving about the plot if any of it had made me laugh, but it it didn’t. And in 2012, I just don’t think there are any salient points left to make about automated phone systems. Yes, they’re frustrating. And? Red Dwarf can make cleverer points than this.

    Since i wrote this, it’s been bugging me. I’m the last person who demands all my comedy to have clever points attached.

    It’s more that I felt the plot was trying to make some kind of point, and failed.

  326. I think the climax was trying to make a point, but I can’t see what it is. If something’s worth complaining about it’s worth complaining about properly? I don’t even know.

    For me, part of the absurdity of the phone sub-plot is that usually, if you’re on hold with a call centre, it’s because there are a lot of other people also trying to call in at the same time. Having worked in a call centre for two years I can tell you that we never had people waiting for the sake of it. But presumably, at three-million years and change in the future, Lister is the only person calling in to All-Droid. So why the fuck would he even be on hold? Why would it matter?

    Not to mention the stupidity of Lister wanting a Stir-Master is a tad too Series VIII for my liking. Series VIII often made Lister dumber for humour or narrative purposes, but he was never properly stupid during the first six series. Not even in series VII. It never worked for me. The Lister that wants a Stir-Master doesn’t reconcile with the Lister who outwitted the Inquisitor.

  327. I think that three million plus years later the All Droid Network would have developed enough faults and eccentricities that it would be possible for one person to be on hold for that amount of time.

  328. G&T Admin

    I think that three million plus years later the All Droid Network would have developed enough faults and eccentricities that it would be possible for one person to be on hold for that amount of time.

    Or after 3 million years of not selling anything, all they know is to put people on hold, they have forgotten how to sell something.

  329. Or after 3 million years of not selling anything, all they know is to put people on hold, they have forgotten how to sell something.

    Now that makes sense.

  330. G&T Admin

    The Lister that wants a Stir-Master doesn’t reconcile with the Lister who outwitted the Inquisitor.

    Four words: portable walrus polishing kit.

  331. The Lister that wants a Stir-Master doesn’t reconcile with the Lister who outwitted the Inquisitor.

    He outwitted Pree too in the very next episode

  332. The Lister that wants a Stir-Master doesn’t reconcile with the Lister who outwitted the Inquisitor.

    Four words: portable walrus polishing kit.

    Indeed. Lister likes gadgets, he bought Talkie Toaster didn’t he? I have a problem with the assumption that people who buy silly gadgets are stupid.

  333. The thing about Lister was: he adored junk.

    There are lots of things little things wrong with Trojan and the phone subplot is one of them. But him actually wanting a stir-master? That’s not one of them.

  334. Lister is the last human alive, but maybe he isn’t the only one ordering junk from All-Droid. There are other droids, sims, GELFs… He could really be on hold because there are to many calls at the same time. Maybe there is a GELF colony nearby or something.

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