Let’s Talk About Timewave (on UKTV Play)

The following article is intended for those watching at UKTV Play pace. Dave viewers be warned that the content and comments could contain spoilers. More info.

Following the slightly manic and hugely irritating period last Thursday between Cured finishing on telly and TOWEK appearing online, UKTV have answered our prayers and clarified the timings for this week, which we really appreciate. So, all being well, Timewave will be live on UKTV Play by around 10:20pm, although the smallprint in that tweet does stipulate that timings may vary. Either way, the massive bit of text below will tell you whether or not you can watch Timewave yet:

YES. YES, YOU CAN!

As usual, this is the place to leave all of your many thoughts on the episode, before joining us to talk it all through in our LIVE Instant Reaction DwarfCast this Friday at 9pm. The whole gang will be here once more, with a couple of guests dropping by for good measure. The link will appear on here, on our Twitter feed and our Spreaker page – which is also the best way to chat along live – at 8:40pm.

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383 Responses to Let’s Talk About Timewave (on UKTV Play)

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  1. It’s a Timewave.
    No, it isn’t! It’s nothing like a Time Wave.

  2. I enjoyed “Cured” for what it was; not the funniest episode or the most interesting plot, but worth a watch.

    I really liked “Siliconia”, probably one of my favourites of the Dave era so far.

    “Timewave” is the one I’m worried about, based on the plot and interviews and the few spoilers we’ve had. Not long now until we discover if it’s a winner or not but I’ll admit I’m nervous.

  3. Was this the one that got the mixed reactions at the recording?

  4. So what is a time wave? Best guess sirs it’s just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it’s the pelvic thrust that… oh wait no that’s time warp.

    Let’s hope there are no pelvic thrusts in sight when Johnny Vegas gets his pink helmet on screen at least.

  5. Spambot.

    Is this some sort of mechanoid who specialises in the production and distribution of tinned ham goods?

  6. I already like everything about this episode because Criticism is wrong and against the law. Anyone refuting that this is the episode that topples Back to Reality from the number1 best ever episode of Red Dwarf status will be taken down to the cells, and everything they have ever said about VII and VIII will be taken into consideration for sentencing.

  7. It’s up

  8. NOT ON SKY IT’S NOT

  9. Just appeared on Sky.

  10. Not sure what to make of part one – it doesn’t feel like red dwarf…

  11. Part 1 was strange. Nothing special . Interesting idea though.

  12. Take me to a criticism cell and throw away the key because that was atrocious. Red Dwarf VIII bad.

  13. Was it just me or was Ziggy wearing the same costume David Walliams wore in Spaced?

  14. Wow. Pete pts 1+2 are a masterpiece in comparison to that. Now that’s criticism.

  15. That felt like a pantomime.

  16. Nice nods here and there but nothing really stood out. Rimmers ‘quarantine’ holovirus voice he uses for his self Critisism was nice though

  17. i honestly didn’t think it was that bad, but it’s definitely the weirdest episode of Red Dwarf in a long while

  18. Yeah i didn’t like that episode, the story was way too silly and i didn’t find it funny beyond one or two jokes like The Cats rant towards the critic cop :(

    Camp guest characters are not funny Doug.

    And that ending… ok so this ship is now out there? least Lister isn’t the last human anymore… well i think they were meant to be human if not weird crazy people.

  19. shame that they weren’t all flushed out of an airlock like Irene E.

  20. I didn’t mind the start, but after that, jeez… awful… and I thought Siliconia was bad, but this was a new low. The only time I laughed on the critic ship was JV’s joke about kryten’s head shape.

  21. I liked Dr. Evil Rimmer though and the draining scene so…. silver linings I guess

    The guest sets put me in mind of the latter years Bottom Live stage shows.

  22. Was it just me or was Ziggy wearing the same costume David Walliams wore in Spaced?

    It’s not Finished.

    It’s finished.

  23. And that ending… ok so this ship is now out there? least Lister isn’t the last human anymore… well i think they were meant to be human if not weird crazy people.

    Literally only just finished watching it myself but i think there was a line about whatever got washed up would end up being pulled back into the past… but i am not sure on that one.

    Cats Rant against the crit cop had me in stitches, The Rest was …. Strange , not much else to say at the moment other than .. strange.

  24. Mmm… that was… farcical? Some nice gags and Chris Barrie had another superb moment but a tad too much absurdity for me. And, those upsettingly abrupt endings have made a comeback :-(

  25. I thought when Evil Rimmer appeared it might get interesting but you could have taken it out and it wouldn’t have made a damn difference to the story.

  26. Oh yay, a Yewtree joke.

  27. I mean, what the actual fuck was THAT?
    The premise has echoes of Rob’s novel Incompetence. It’s a interesting idea but the episode takes it nowhere interesting. The crew are put in a cell. They escape. They’re immediately recaptured. Then there’s some half-hearted Terroform call-backs. And then it fizzles out completely. To end the episode with dozens of living humans in their region of the galaxy is also troublesome (I assume they get swept back on the timewave…but we kinda need to see that).

    I get that we’re supposed to dislike the guest characters and their behaviour. But that’s not really conducive to comedy, that’s just conducive to feeling irritated.

    Is this episode supposed to be shit to prove a point?

  28. Okay, I *really* enjoyed that, best of the series so far for me. Could easily fit in series IV or V.
    Good/interesting things:
    The reversing gag.
    That canteen had a touch of Milliways about it, didn’t it?
    The odd lump on Kryten’s head.
    The nice spin on the Space Corps Directive gag.

    *Goes back and reads everyone else’s comments*

    Oh. It appears I’m in a minority. :/

  29. Quarantine on now – laughed more in 3 minutes than I did in the 30 I watched TW.

  30. Absolutely awful BBC joke can’t believe they actually did that!

  31. Okay, I *really* enjoyed that, best of the series so far for me. Could easily fit in series IV or V.

    Good/interesting things:
    The reversing gag.

    That certainly felt like a joke that had come out of the 90s.

  32. something’s a bit odd about how around 12 minutes in they decide to leave the ship- since it’s still heading towards the planet wouldn’t this effectively be leaving the whole crew to die?

  33. It was absolute wank but I liked the colours of the sets, especially all the pink and the contrasting fluorescent yellow bed frames. Let’s just say Red Dwarf is 80% about set design now and 20% about plot/comedy etc and then it’ll be less disappointing because those aspects of it really were complete bollocks.

  34. I’ll probably get crucified for this, but I actually quite enjoyed that. Already intend to watch again in the morning to pick out the reasons why, as I think I might be the only one who did.

    Biggest caveat: Campy guy in a dress. Really? So we’ve had campy Hitler, campy counsellor mech and now a third campy guest in as many weeks. Did Doug go on an ‘Up Pompei’ and ‘Are you being served’ binge while writing this series?

  35. It was absolute wank but I liked the colours of the sets, especially all the pink and the contrasting fluorescent yellow bed frames. Let’s just say Red Dwarf is 80% about set design now and 20% about plot/comedy etc and then it’ll be less disappointing because those aspects of it really were complete bollocks.

    Agreed. The show has never looked better.

  36. Better than expected. That is to say that I had low expectations and was rather thinking I’d be leaving with an episode to join Dear Dave as the worst.

    It is better than Dear Dave. And I’d say better than the likes of Pete, BTE1, Only the Good. Yes that isn’t high praise but I’ll take it.

  37. I laughed quite a bit but it felt very, very odd and not very Red Dwarfish. Plot, characters, setting, all very flimsy and a bit embarrassing at times. No subtlety whatsoever. Very VIII in that regard. Funnier than VIII, but not much better conceived than.

  38. Really weird. First thoughts are it was awful! Though did absolutely laugh out loud at the Space Corps Directive shut up Kryten line! 😂

  39. Well. Somehow I’ve still been watching recent Red Dwarf and occasionally enjoying it, but that was the last fucking straw. Cat’s misogynistic line about Johnny Vegas’s wife was the last straw. I’m out.

    (and Rimmer is suddenly a product of coddling and participation trophies rather than abusive parents and hypercompetitiveness? Jesus.)

  40. Yes, something about the phrase ‘floppy titties’ sat badly with me. Not quite ‘What a slag’ badly, but it didn’t feel right for the character, the situation or the show.

  41. I went to the recording of this and I didn’t enjoy it on the night either. It was a LONG LONG evening with so many retakes that weren’t that funny.
    I was hoping that when it was finished it would be better. I was disappointed.
    I thought this was poor. Series 12’s Dear Dave. Which I also attended recording of. Can’t help but feel this is all my fault.

  42. The nice spin on the Space Corps Directive gag.

    Oh yes, that was a really nice spin on the running gag. One of many big laughs in there for me.

    This feels sort of like the opposite to Cursed for me, which I thought was mostly a well plotted and thought out episode that didn’t make me laugh much. I thought this was much funnier but take away the gags and it was an absolute mess.

    Also, another quick fucking ending again. WHY?!

  43. Fuck, that’s two in a row I haven’t liked.

    Aside from one or two good gags, that was awful.

  44. Little bit of Terrorform in Rimmer’s voice of the inner critic. This is Red Dwarf returning to Confidence and Paranoia more than any other episode that’s more recent, which will surprise many.

    The garishness of the design is going to turn a lot of people off, but I got that that was the point, you either go with it or don’t at that point. understand anyone switching off. It’s an acid trip, yellow submarine/python/wizard of oz looking like surreal dressing up box episode for sure, probably wont be a fan favourite will getting a kicking for that. Its pretty clear though, Doug doesn’t care if it feels too wacky to anyone, he wants you horrified if maybe along with the crew. He turned up the troll button to 11 on that score.

    I liked Johnny Vegas performance. He might have been better in a more central role as more time was shared with the Walliamslike dressed guy. But I enjoyed the ride and the ruminations on the topic, the tutting guy was another highlight (he was in broadchruch) it may not be brilliant underneath the deliberately tacky cover, but I went with it, laughed a lot and I’m with my dad who found it all funny as general TV viewer not that invested in the show. I may grow to skipping this one on the dvd stage but after the confusion of last weeks Krytenness it was fun to hang out with the posse in a hellish place.

  45. >Oh yay, a Yewtree joke.
    Oh, god. That was awful.

    In fact, I didn’t even like the rest of that opening scene, so I knew I was in for a rough night. Why did it look so crap compared to the quarry stuff in Thanks for The Memory 29 years ago?

    The bit with Rimmer’s self-critic reminded of a Richard Herring joke. “I am my own worst critic (and my self-criticism is mediocre at best)”. It summed up in one line what that entire mess of a scene was trying to do.

    I do find it a little troublesome that the thing that we’re supposed to criticise and the crew/us dliske, is a bunch of guys dressed in flamboyant costumes. What are we actually saying here? That people with dress-sense we don’t like deserve a rough-ride? I’m not sure this is good footing for the show.

    Fuck. I thought we were past this kind of episode.

  46. Yeah i didn’t like that episode, the story was way too silly and i didn’t find it funny beyond one or two jokes like The Cats rant towards the critic cop :(

    Camp guest characters are not funny Doug.
    And that ending… ok so this ship is now out there? least Lister isn’t the last human anymore… well i think they were meant to be human if not weird crazy people.

    They were on a Time Wave. So from the past, and would be washed back again at some point I think was the point of the title and phenomena mentioned.

  47. i am starting to find the concept off opening scene bit of banter then off on to another ship that they just happen to come across slightly jarring, i know they now appear to be in a busier part of space than before but it is getting of hand now, i am happy to be corrected if wrong as saying this off the top of my head but have they now come across another ship/ crew in every episode Since Dear Dave ? which would be 10 episodes.

  48. I noticed alot of Dougs guest characters seem to be brainwashed based on whatever law or sciency thing is going on and so they often don’t act like real characters but more the caricature of whatever the are meant to be.

  49. G&T Admin

    Congratulations, Dear Dave, you are no longer the worst Dave episode.

  50. I do wish Ziggy hadn’t been camp (surely the whole point was that they were quietly ridiculous, nothing to do with sexuality), and the “clitoris” line may have been the worst written joke ever to appear in the series, but I enjoyed that much more than Siliconia. The Kryten reversing joke really tickled me.

    I feel like I need to apologise for liking this one.

    What was with all the recycled series 1 music?

  51. Oh, also Rimmer’s obsession with saving ‘Planet Rimmer’. Maybe not *that* out of character, but it really got on my floppy titties.

  52. Oh yay, a Yewtree joke.

    I laughed more at that, because I was thinking the BBC that “is no longer interested in the kind of audience red dwarf used to attract” gets a pot shot thrown over from it’s happy home on Dave.

  53. The nice spin on the Space Corps Directive gag.

    I am probably the only one but i hate the call back jokes as they feel like cheap cash-ins on better past jokes :(

    I mean this was the second time the OM song was referenced this series for the sake of a joke.

  54. Yes, okay, the tittles line *was* not great. Mind you, the Cat’s “asshole” surprised me (as it would, I suppose) as well.

    But I am surprised at the mauling it’s getting here.

  55. They stole your Dwarfcast approach to Space Corp directives guys.

  56. I winced in disapproval at the titties line, my wife laughed at it. 21st century marriage, there.

  57. Another thing that annoys me (I’m in full Rimmer mode here) is the time wave stuff could have been an interesting plot device in it’s own right, yet all it served was a way to get that stupid critic ship/shit into the story. The name of the episode is wrong.

  58. I mean this was the second time the OM song was referenced this series for the sake of a joke.

    Along with two uses of “Boys from the dwarf” this series so far too.

  59. There are now 3 things I wish Red Dwarf had never done:

    1) Gone onto Coronation Street
    2) Series VIII
    3) Timewave

    ☹️

  60. i am starting to find the concept off opening scene bit of banter then off on to another ship that they just happen to come across slightly jarring, i know they now appear to be in a busier part of space than before but it is getting of hand now, i am happy to be corrected if wrong as saying this off the top of my head but have they now come across another ship/ crew in every episode Since Dear Dave ? which would be 10 episodes.

    You’re right! That seemed fucking ridiculous until I thought back to Series 6 (for example) which had them encountering ships/stations/craft every week as well (albeit the same one in two separate episodes).

  61. I mean this was the second time the OM song was referenced this series for the sake of a joke.

    Along with two uses of “Boys from the dwarf” this series so far too.

    Every episode so far has some reference to Lister playing guitar!

  62. I mean this was the second time the OM song was referenced this series for the sake of a joke.

    Along with two uses of “Boys from the dwarf” this series so far too.

    Along with three episodes on the bounce with guitar jokes…

  63. But I am surprised at the mauling it’s getting here.

    i think they could have got the point they were trying to get across in the episode without it being THAT outlandish, again this is snap reaction after only just watching it. just felt ridiculously crazy for the sake of it.

    im fairly forgiving of the Red dwarf episodes and series that have got a mauling in the past ( i Don’t hate Dear Dave as much as many do, i like the slower pace and the chance for some dialogue to flow)

    this series just feel WAY too populated,

    i like the concept of criticism being illegal, just the way they went about it was just … ODDD,

    i do hope there is an episode in this series that is just the 4 of them on the ship.

  64. How many human survivors have been found since Series X?

  65. Would the character of Ziggy have worked had he been played by an established camp guest star, like a Lucas or Walliams type? As it was it felt fairly homophobic and a nasty, reductive stereotype. Which clearly isn’t what’s on the page. So why didn’t Doug clock this?

    We had the camp Simulants in Twentica as well, that’s four consecutively filmed episodes ploughing the same furrow for guest characters. Still, unless Daniel Barker is playing a gay microwave next week we’ll get a break from it.

    I still think it was a good episode despite all the bad, just as I think Siliconia is a mediocre episode despite all the good.

  66. The Twentica stimulants weren’t camp!

  67. I typed lots of other probably fascinating things here but my phone froze while I was repositioning a comma and now it’s all lost but FINE, whatever.

    Is Snacky coming back next week?

  68. You’re right! That seemed fucking ridiculous until I thought back to Series 6 (for example) which had them encountering ships/stations/craft every week as well (albeit the same one in two separate episodes).

    Often abandoned, though.

    this series just feel WAY too populated

    Yeah, episodes with more than one or two guest stars were few and far between before now (other than VIII, obviously), meaning that when they did come along – Holoship, Emohawk – they stood out as being quite memorable for the fact. I’m hoping we get some more character-based, Dwarf-based stuff in the remaining three episodes.

  69. >We had the camp Simulants in Twentica as well, that’s four consecutively filmed episodes ploughing the same furrow for guest characters.

    I don’t mind camp characters (Hitler was great*), and hadn’t noticed this (strange…) reliance on them in recent episodes. But in this episode it presents a problem when set it’s up that we’re supposed to dislike them (because the crew are desperate to criticise them). I feel it’s saying something a bit dodgy.

    * Er, as played by Ryan Gage in the episode Cured.

  70. Yes, okay, the tittles line *was* not great. Mind you, the Cat’s “asshole” surprised me (as it would, I suppose) as well.

    His whole response there was strangely out of character, I was expecting to find out he had been drugged or poisoned by the Helium 7 or something that made him overtly critical but no, apparently that’s just how the Cat speaks now for those 30 seconds of this one episode.

    Preferred it to Siliconia but nowhere near as good as Cured. I very much enjoyed Rimmer’s inner critic (and pretty much all of Rimmer’s stuff this episode), will need a rewatch to make up my mind about some of the other stuff.

  71. Yeah this wasn’t good. At all. And I went in actually quite intrigued by the idea from a comedic standpoint.

    The thing is, I felt like some of the the ideas could have developed into some good jokes if the thing was thought about a bit more or even if some of the jokes were better directed or something. I don’t know. One example is when the guys are all scared of their cell mate except for Lister who introduces himself quite happily, the guy then growls a line and Craig just awkwardly walks away. Not an original joke, even for Dwarf, but if it was better shot/directed they could have got a laugh out of it. There isn’t even audience laughter though.

    Also, the whole thing really felt shot in front of a live audience, which Dwarf often manages to make me forget even with episodes where I have actually been sat in the audience. When Johnny Vegas isn’t near enough to a mic at the start of the same scene… just makes the whole thing feel crap.

  72. I hadn’t really acknowledged the potentially homophobic reading of the campness, but now you mention it that is an issue. I’d also just really like a few more guest stars to be played straight. Where’s the next Legion, Camille, Ace or Inquisitor? Instead we seem to have a parade of Ackermans, Kill Crazys and Dennis the Donutboy-Holilsters.

  73. I wonder how on earth this got through to be made. Did Doug ban all criticism of the script?

  74. Recent Dwarf does have a tendency of always throwing comedy towards the guest casts, whereas previously they’d mostly play things straight (or pose a threat). Sometimes that’s worked fine. Other times…not so much.

  75. Comedy guest roles can be great – Confidence, Dog, Talkie Toaster, Elvis – but there needs to be a mix of them, and frankly a never ending stream of comedy guests makes the universe feel a little less believable.

  76. Critischism
    Pink Helmet
    Gas Moon
    Ship of Fools

  77. as soon as the credits rolled another timewave hit the ship wiping the events of the last 27 minutes from history & everyone’s memory #DwarfFact

    and looking back at Krytens exposition scene he hints that another wave could take things back in the past but it does seem that this ship and crew could still be co existing with the Boys from the dwarf.

  78. Johnny in the Bomb

  79. There have been some GREAT guest characters in Dave Dwarf but if you look at the first six series, most of the guest characters were pretty much played straight and not really for laughs. Think I prefer my Red Dwarf when everything around the boys is not presented as a joke in itself.

    Eccentric characters from 1-6 (that I remember):
    Kryten
    Confidence & Paranoia
    Appliances
    Wax droids
    Alternate versions of the boys
    Andy (Back to reality)
    Platini

    And even most of those were played with a lot more subtlety/pretty much straight. The odd eccentric character can work but I prefer the boys to be making the jokes.

  80. And by the time I had typed my last comment, everyone had pretty much covered what I had to say…

  81. Another thing that annoys me (I’m in full Rimmer mode here) is the time wave stuff could have been an interesting plot device in it’s own right, yet all it served was a way to get that stupid critic ship/shit into the story. The name of the episode is wrong.

    Also wanted to agree with this. Going in with no knowledge of the episode other than the title, I was expecting something a lot more sci-fi-ish of a White Hole variety. The name fits the episode as much as the series X titles Quantum Rod, GELF Hooch, Rejuvination Shower, Quantum Rod Redux, Post Pod and Hogey.

  82. Although frankly I would have called episode five The Great Toilet Roll Shortage myself.

  83. Did Terry Gilliam wrong Doug Naylor in some way?

    St. Trembles though.

  84. Christ that was bad.

    That’s the kind of episode that in isolation would make you think Doug has got some serious issues with a few societal groups. The floppy titties line is as bad as if not worse as the slag in X, it’s dehumanising and just unnecessary.

    The clitoris spit on a wrist, what the fuck was that? Let’s get clitoris in an episode to be edgy? Awful. Just terrible.

    It looked decent though, Rimmer’s make up was good and the planet scene looked better than it did in the trailer, good sets.

    Worst ending yet too. Where was this time wave?

    Is it some kind of meta thing? Elicit criticism on an episode about the banning of criticism? That would explain a lot but not improve anything.

    And how weird is it that Vulva’s costume from Spaced just turns up in Red Dwarf the best part of 20 years later.

    Shocking.

  85. Apparently they’re on the fringes of “the solar system” now too, a fact which I expect will be gleefully thrown in the bin ready for the next episode.

  86. WTF was that shit?! Worst episode of Red Dwarf since Pete pt.2 …

    The only vaguely redeeming feature of it was Rimmer towards the end having his criticism drained, but as with Siliconia it was a nice character piece that was too short and not given the time to be explored.

    The rest of the episode, utter garbage :(

  87. Should’ve been called, “Go ahead, criticise me”.

    Came across as satire hidden within the most bizarre episode of Red Dwarf ever. I liked it.

  88. Apparently they’re on the fringes of “the solar system” now too, a fact which I expect will be gleefully thrown in the bin ready for the next episode.

    i think it was meant to be implied that they were on the edge of the solar system that they are currently in … the line before says they are in a new Galaxy.. which is even less likely to be honest.

  89. Weird this one. I went in with low expectations and they were met. I was really pissed off with The One Where Everyone’s Kryten as I felt that so many good ideas were just thrown away. This one, I kind of just feel sorry for it. It’s as though Nathan Barley was remade by someone with no understanding of modern culture. I wasn’t offended. I was broadly on board with most of the premise and I really don’t think the troubling aspects were intentionally ill spirited. It was just, well, amateurish and embarrassing really.

  90. I enjoyed that. Sorry everyone.

  91. Kind of wish they were making series Vii now instead

  92. Enjoying a second watch. Reminding me now of how Ford Prefect can’t stand the golgafrincham idiots middleclass in hitch hikers. Far from seeing anti camp per say I’m getting an anti California kids vibe off the deliberately annoying characters,
    The skateboarding girl in the diner with a USA flag bow hair.

    Shout out to ed Moore on the crap pictures bit.

    Far too many “let’s get rid of rimmer” jokes from the cat.

  93. The Dwarfcast made me appreciate ‘Cured’ a lot more than I did at first, pointing out the strong writing, callbacks and background gags etc. Good luck saving this one!

    Slotted it into 5th last place on my ongoing top 70 above the worst half of series 8, but I’ll have to think about it.

    I don’t enjoy slagging off new Red Dwarf at all. This actually breaks my heart a bit.

  94. Enjoyed it a bit better after a second viewing. The first part on the gas moon and Starbug were okay. The draining scene is good. It all gets very broad and overplayed on the other ship from the second they arrive and coupled with the garish designs I felt it was all a bit overwhelmingly alien for RD on the first viewing.

    This felt like a big parody and the potential was there on the page for this to be a good episode actually… and there was a rare misjudgement from the production designers, guest cast and ultimately the director which turned it into a broad panto instead.

    I feel like the exact same script but played in a more serious/sinister manner from the guest cast would have made for a good episode. It feels a bit like Doug didn’t have enough confidence to let it be what it is and had to crowbar more ‘comedy’ into it with silly costumes and hammy performances

  95. Well. That was not especially enjoyable. Weakest episode of XII so far, for me.

  96. Well, that’s the weakest episode of the series out the way. That being said, still enjoyed various bits of it. Thought that it was paced quite well and the concerns about Robert’s comments regarding the episode didn’t really amount to anything.

    Particular likes:
    -Chris’ acting for the Rimmer inner critic
    -Cat’s unexpected verbal asssault on the Crit Cop
    -‘Shut up Kryten’

    Particular dislikes:
    -‘planet Rimmer’ repeated far too often
    -Some very clunky jokes
    – Definitely something to be said for using the ‘playing it straight’ approach instead (Vegas’ character was fine though)

  97. Id like to offer cat’s early line about an acid trip to all the people who wish this entire episode can be written off
    as an unreality pocket.

    Don’t quite understand rimmers look at the hydrogen jar. Anyone got an idea on that shot?

  98. Apparently they’re on the fringes of “the solar system” now too, a fact which I expect will be gleefully thrown in the bin ready for the next episode.

    i think it was meant to be implied that they were on the edge of the solar system that they are currently in … the line before says they are in a new Galaxy.. which is even less likely to be honest.

    I believe it was “a new galaxy on the edge of the solar system” so, a bit they’ve not been in, but getting there perhaps? Or just bad space geography, probably more likely I suppose.

    The amount of people they’re running in to they surely must be near though.

  99. i know they now appear to be in a busier part of space than before but it is getting of hand now, i am happy to be corrected if wrong as saying this off the top of my head but have they now come across another ship/ crew in every episode Since Dear Dave ? which would be 10 episodes.

    To be fair I think the shit poorly thought out characters were dragged into the Dwarfer’s space time by the time wand or something. It all works.

  100. Everyone else has said what I wanted to say so I’ll just say this – ugh.

  101. On second thoughts let’s not talk about Timewave. ”Tis a silly episode.

  102. This episode (and the previous two) have convinced me that what Red Dwarf really needs now is an influx of new writers. The characters and the personality of the show are so well-known now that there must be dozens of writers who could inject some new life into the series. I’m sure Doug would be excellent as a script editor, but as a one-man show-runner he seems now to be understandably wrung-out, and the program is now sadly under par.

  103. Congratulations, Dear Dave, you are no longer the worst Dave episode.

    IMO both Timewave and Dear Dave are better than Can of Worms, though admittedly that’s not saying much…..

    What did we just watch?? Not sure. There WAS a minute or two, here and there, when it threatened to get good, then….. just woeful. The production design (pink costumes aside…..), effects and Rimmer makeup (along with Chris in that scene) were all that held this together. Another waste of a great guest star…and, much like Siliconia, too many of them. Two roles needed to be combined into one…and stuff.

    XII is easily the worst series, so far. I would love for that not to be the case… What’s going on?? The character jokes are like parodies of past character jokes.

  104. This episode (and the previous two) have convinced me that what Red Dwarf really needs now is an influx of new writers. The characters and the personality of the show are so well-known now that there must be dozens of writers who could inject some new life into the series. I’m sure Doug would be excellent as a script editor, but as a one-man show-runner he seems now to be understandably wrung-out, and the program is now sadly under par.

    Unfortunately I think you’re right, Doug might not think he’s struggling but it’s plain to see that the show has suffered of late. Spreading himself too thin, no dissenting opinions perhaps given some of the stuff that’s got through, it’s a strong statement but honestly, if they don’t intend to get help on for a potential XIII, I’d rather they let it go out as gracefully as possible with XII if it’s going to continue down this road.

  105. This episode (and the previous two) have convinced me that what Red Dwarf really needs now is an influx of new writers. The characters and the personality of the show are so well-known now that there must be dozens of writers who could inject some new life into the series. I’m sure Doug would be excellent as a script editor, but as a one-man show-runner he seems now to be understandably wrung-out, and the program is now sadly under par.

    Couldn’t agree more!

    Also I’m with the majority of the opinions on this episode.

    Well that was worth staying up till quarter past three to type.

  106. I liked 99% of the episode; the first Johnny Vegas scene just wasn’t funny. The running gag of Rimmer caring more about Rimmer than the crew was actually funny.

    Also; I didn’t like the overly-camp guy. Seemed too… camp.

  107. Oh boy.

    Positives: There were some great VFX shots, proper nice model shots, which were great to see. Rimmer’s Internal Critic was pretty well realised – seems Chris is quite on form this series. Rimmer’s meta space corp directive joke made me laugh. And the space diner set was lovely, I very much liked the circular windows – I feel like a big window is something lacking on the current Red Dwarf sets.

    Aside from that…

  108. Last night’s Red Dwarf was, without a doubt, the worst episode ever! Rest assured I was on the Internet within minutes, registering my disgust throughout the world.

  109. I have deeply, deeply mixed feelings about this and it’s going to need a rewatch.

    I like the opening stuff with the gas moon, which feels a bit different to the Dave era’s usual practise of starting the ep with a random scene of life aboard the Dwarf, and it’s nice to have a good look at Starbug’s upper deck. (Is this the first episode outside of VI and VII to have *no* scenes aboard Red Dwarf at all? I’d be fascinated to know how the studio was set up for this one – were the regular bunkroom and science room sets still there?)

    But yeah, there’s some really unfortunate dialogue and bits like the way the bloke who looks like Josh Widdicombe is dressed is the most VIII thing the show has done since, well, VIII. There are some ridiculously under-used guest stars (Johnny Vegas gets two scenes and Joe Sims disappears from the narrative entirely) and yet another abrupt ending.

    I think everything *before* they get on board the ship is basically fine, and there’s some OK isolated gags afterwards, but the actual concept is executed in a… very questionable way.

    On another note: the running order for XII seems to have ended up with the first half of the series having virtually no scenes set on board the Dwarf whatsoever, and the second half being predominantly Dwarf-based (we know next week is set there entirely and Skipper has a lot of Dwarf-based material, and it seems likely M-Corp will have at least more than anything in the first half).

  110. Is this the first episode outside of VI and VII to have *no* scenes aboard Red Dwarf at all?

    Back To Earth part two? I forget if that has any but I feel like it doesn’t.

    I’d be fascinated to know how the studio was set up for this one – were the regular bunkroom and science room sets still there?

    One of the set reports for this episode mentions (and describes) the bunkroom set while acknowledging it isn’t used in the episode, so that was still there.

  111. Couldn’t bring myself to come back and comment last night beyond pointing out the David Walliams dress from Spaced. I return this morning and see everyone has already said everything that I could possibly have said about the episode, so I’ll simply add my summation to the pile:

    “Timewave” is shit. Fuck “Timewave”.

  112. >it’s nice to have a good look at Starbug’s upper deck.

    weren’t the scenes in Starbug in the midsection? given that it started with Kryten going downstairs into the room, i assumed what we were seeing was the midsection, and the room in Can of Worms was the upper deck.

  113. >it’s nice to have a good look at Starbug’s upper deck.

    weren’t the scenes in Starbug in the midsection? given that it started with Kryten going downstairs into the room, i assumed what we were seeing was the midsection, and the room in Can of Worms was the upper deck.

    As far as I understand it, the scene in this episode and the scene in Can of Worms both take place in the mid-section, A’s does the guitar scene in Cured. The upper desk only appeared in the deleted version of the Can of Worms opener and is therefore non-canonical.

    Oh and that was truly a terrible, terrible episode. I’ve defended a lot of the recent stuff and have largely been positive about everything in the Dave era, but that was just dreadful.

  114. >As far as I understand it, the scene in this episode and the scene in Can of Worms both take place in the mid-section, A’s does the guitar scene in Cured. The upper desk only appeared in the deleted version of the Can of Worms opener and is therefore non-canonical.

    That apostrophe in the word ‘As’ is also non-canonical.
    I think the upper desk is somehwere on the upper deck.

  115. bizarre how the dwarfers are offered a faster-than-light drive at the end of the episode, and yet don’t even try to seize this rare opportunity to get something thatll get them back to Earth

  116. bizarre how the dwarfers are offered a faster-than-light drive at the end of the episode, and yet don’t even try to seize this rare opportunity to get something thatll get them back to Earth

    Like I said yesterday I have no idea how much Doug even cares anymore. But I have assumed that after all the ‘Earth’ experiences Lister has had during his years on RD I don’t think that’s his goal anymore. I also thought he might still be looking for Kochanski as was hinted in X but its just looking like Lister has aged and used to his life now.

  117. Not sure if anyone’s made these small points before. Please don’t criticise me if they have.

    1. The premise of the episode is eerily similar to Rob Grant’s Incompetence.

    2. The costume Ziggy wears is so similar to the one David Walliams wears in Spaced, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same one.

    Fine episode. Not great. 5/10

  118. Two more things.

    The back and forth with the prison felt tonally like a lot of the stuff in Back in the Red. Except… I actually enjoyed BitR a lot more. Quite damning.

    The guest star introduced in the prison (not sure if he got a name) was easily the most likeable and interesting character in the episode (including the core cast) and he was completely wasted. What even happened to him?

  119. Is this the first episode outside of VI and VII to have *no* scenes aboard Red Dwarf at all?
    Back To Earth part two? I forget if that has any but I feel like it doesn’t.
    .

    It begins on Dwarf as they fly through the cutter hole into our universe, so has a tiny amount of cargo bay dwarf setting.

  120. So after Hitler on guitar jam to the happy wanderer, after all the characters disappearing into both mech masks and subkryten impressions meeting the Judean mechanoids front, and now leigh bowery running round the ship with pink policemen…

    Remember when a few of you were saying Red Dwarf XII is going to be a bit “out there” based on set reports. How do you feel about the series now at the half way point?

  121. The more I think about this, the more a wasted opportunity it seems.

    Like…. okay, the timewave stuff – needless. The time travel aspect has zero bearing on the plot, so why bother with it? Just have the crew stumble across the ship.

    The Cat – virtually every piece of dialogue he has is the “Something bad’s gonna happen to Rimmer? Great!” schtick, it is crazily overdone here. So why not USE that in an episode based on banning criticism?

    Why not have the Crit Police take action against the Cat for criticising Rimmer so much? Or indeed, Lister too? Why not use the episode concept to inform on the characters? I know the bit at the end with Rimmer goes someway to address this, but having Rimmer confront and address his own inner aspects is a Red Dwarf trope that’s previously been done to perfection, so why do it again?

    Ziggy and the cop should have been one character to streamline things, who realises that criticism and dealing with it is an essential part of the human condition. Johnny Vegas got such short thrift in this.

    So frustrating. There was a really interesting core concept to this one, that could really have gone to some funny, interesting places – instead I felt like I was watching the worst of Series VIII again.

    It LOOKED great, I’ll give it that.

  122. Just watched for a second time.

    The “spit on the wrist” is already the worst gag and most forced in the history of Red Dwarf. If you compare these 3 episodes to “twentica” “samsara” and G&T… Man XII Has been a sub par series so far

  123. So after Hitler on guitar jam to the happy wanderer, after all the characters disappearing into both mech masks and subkryten impressions meeting the Judean mechanoids front, and now leigh bowery running round the ship with pink policemen…

    Remember when a few of you were saying Red Dwarf XII is going to be a bit “out there” based on set reports. How do you feel about the series now at the half way point?

    Honestly, I loved Cured, and I think Silconia is flawed but generally pretty good. Timewave is the stumbling block so far. I was at the recording for M-Corp, so already have a bit of a feel for that episode – but the series is a step-up in weirdness that I mostly like. Mostly.

  124. I also assume ziggy’s line about getting the engineers back to their job and then they will be “out of here in a brief contraction of forward space” meaning gong back to their own time..

  125. >How do you feel about the series now at the half way point?

    If the quality of the first three episodes are replicated in the next three then it’ll be the worst full series of Red Dwarf. One average episode, one great episode and one bad episode.

    Thankfully I have very high hopes for Mechocracy, M-Corp and Skipper. Four great episodes, one average episode and one bad episode would be a much nicer place to be in. That being said they are going to have to be really great episodes now to overtake Series XI.

  126. They should have swapped “Spit on her wrist” with “licorice.” Rimmer could have been given weird looks when trying to force women to eat Pontefract cakes.

    Arguably the funniest cake.

    As people have said above. Time Wave, it wasn’t.

  127. Irony. Critical about a critical episode.

  128. MR FLIBBLE returns

    *if only via the voice of Critic Rimmer

    Dunno what to make of this. The most series 8 episode for a long time. It started well then they got to the ship and the idea of a Time Wave didn’t get explored. At times it was just like a shity sitcom the BBC now makes hence the series 8 comparison.

    Some of the jokes were really terrible. Space Core directive gag was great though. Maybe Doug was doing that ironically you know so we can crit…..

    Are we assuming this is the worst of the bunch?? Please tell me so!!!

  129. The “spit on the wrist” is already the worst gag and most forced in the history of Red Dwarf.

    Yeahhh. It would have made sense (if only in the way it sounded) if he’d been told to ‘slit her wrist’, but that’s not really a great move, s it?

  130. Oh dear. I went to the recording of this one, and even contributed to the G&T set report saying how much I enjoyed it. Naturally I’ll disembowel myself immediately.

  131. Just watched for a second time.

    The “spit on the wrist” is already the worst gag and most forced in the history of Red Dwarf. If you compare these 3 episodes to “twentica” “samsara” and G&T… Man XII Has been a sub par series so far

    Wasn’t that before they got on the ship? That might have been Doug being ironic due to the set up…..his crappy painting if you will.

    I fucking hope so!

  132. I’m nine minutes in and it’s buffering. So far it’s unmistakably Red Dwarf VI, rather than VIII – and you really shouldn’t bust that comparison out except in truly exceptional circumstances. I’m already apprehensive about the entitled-millennials-everyone-gets-a-trophy theme, though.

  133. I’m nine minutes in and it’s buffering. So far it’s unmistakably Red Dwarf VI, rather than VIII – and you really shouldn’t bust that comparison out except in truly exceptional circumstances. I’m already apprehensive about the entitled-millennials-everyone-gets-a-trophy theme, though.

    Well, that dipped quickly.

  134. The “spit on the wrist” is already the worst gag and most forced in the history of Red Dwarf.

    I cringed so bad when I heard it. I don’t know what Doug was thinking when he wrote that.
    What next? Tickle her fanny/granny? At least that rhymes…

  135. Oh dear. I went to the recording of this one, and even contributed to the G&T set report saying how much I enjoyed it. Naturally I’ll disembowel myself immediately.

    So what did you think of the finished item?

    I’m quietly shitting myself over M-Corps now.

  136. The “spit on the wrist” is already the worst gag and most forced in the history of Red Dwarf.

    Yeahhh. It would have made sense (if only in the way it sounded) if he’d been told to ‘slit her wrist’, but that’s not really a great move, s it?

    I still cannot believe that joke made it in. As a professional comedy writer of nearly 40 years standing thinking that was good enough, he should be utterly ashamed. There are about fourteen different things wrong with it. It’s even worse than the ‘theory of relativity’ gag. Worse than amateur.

  137. Rimmer could have been given weird looks when trying to force women to eat Pontefract cakes.

    Arguably the funniest cake.

    I don’t know, Eccles cakes might give them a run for their money.

  138. I will stand up for the central theme of the episode though. I was also worried it would be a “PC gone mad!!!” affair but the core idea – that the pleasure provided by an absence of criticism is more dangerous to a person than the pain of actual criticism is to them – is a solid Dwarf idea in the mould of other psychology themes from the show’s past, and fairly Adamsian too. I just wish it hadn’t tripped over itself and accidentally become “The One Where We Assert Our Right To Tell Them Poofs How Ridiculous We Think They Look”. It needed to be script-edited, cast, rehearsed and directed with about a million times more care than it was, and it wasn’t. But I still think the heart of the episode was in the right place, and its failings were reasonably noble ones, whereas the failings of Siliconia were because there *wasn’t* a strong backbone and everything that was great about it was incidental.

    And Vegas was brilliant. They definitely should have scrapped the role of Ziggy and given Vegas all his lines. He’s probably been the only guest performance in XII so far who doesn’t seem like he’s stepped out of the pages of the Beano.

    It wouldn’t have taken much to make Timewave *fantastic*. I can’t say that about Siliconia.

  139. That was brilliant and I don’t care what any of you think. Yes, it was ridiculousness is turned up to 11, but that’s the point surely? It’s a parody of overly positive, must-be-happy-at-all-times attitude, which they seem to have in America more (“Have nice day!”). The phrase “death by encouragement” comes to mind. Come to think of it, isn’t that what happened when Rob and Doug tried to improve Red Dwarf USA? Whenever they tried to point out problems with the script they were dismissed by the other writers as just being negative? I’m sure that’s what this was supposed to be satirising.

    Ziggy’s campness wasn’t a good choice, though, for the reasons others have already covered, especially since it’s been used a lot now. It seems Doug still sees as camp=silly, rather than camp=someone’s implied sexuality. I’m sure the idea was to make Ziggy seem as ridiculous as possible, but, well, he would’ve been funny even if he hadn’t played it camp, because that dress is AWFUL!

    Too much reliance on Cat’s “let’s get rid of Rimmer” jokes.

    The part about putting inner-critics into jars reminded me of one of the million or so writing tips I’ve read, it might’ve been in Bird By Bird by Anne Lamott. Something about putting your inner critics into a jar where you can turn the volume up or down, and then you turn the volume down while you write. When I try it the volume knob seems to break or the lid doesn’t stay on.

  140. Eccles cakes. You are Eric Morcambe to my Ernie Wise, sir.
    Well played.

  141. Personally I thought Johnny Vegas was as good in this as he is in most things he’s in. So he’s at least consistent.

    Grade A stand up comedian. Grade C/D comedy actor.

  142. Oh dear. I went to the recording of this one, and even contributed to the G&T set report saying how much I enjoyed it. Naturally I’ll disembowel myself immediately.

    Have your own opinions and criticisms Jon. Dont be young rimmer in the begining lol.

    My mate who I am booked to go to Dimension Jump with, enjoyed it the most of the series so far. We both struggled more with getting Siliconia into our heads, than this one. We just laughed at this one. Maybe its a laughable episode! Most would say that either way!

  143. Johnny Vegas being under used. I can see, and some agreement for people who are saying that. I think the massive hate for Ziggy is driving that fan edit in your heads though, as much as it is the love for johnny, who does get 3 scenes. When Tim spall, anita dobson, jenny auguter, don warrington, lenny von dohen etc all one scene wonders in the history of this show.

  144. Was this the second episode recorded? I want to go and read the recording report.

    I think I’ll just end up combining series XI and XII. Nothing touches Twentica and Give & Take so far though.

  145. I’ve just checked the Dwarfing USA doc to remind myself what nickname Rob and Doug were given because they kept pointing out problems with the RD USA script: THE WAVE. Short for The Wave of Negativity.

    TIMEWAVE.

  146. Alot of the comedy comes from the cast giving reactions to the odd guest characters.

    There was definitely a time when Rob and Doug felt the guest stars had to play it straight and let the comedy be funny… now for some reason the characters all act like they are in a panto and i assume Doug encourages it to try and make it more funny?

  147. Just watched it. Was expecting a total disaster given some of the responses on here. It wasn’t that but it was probably the weakest story of the Dave Era (though nowhere near Series VIII levels).

    It gets points from me for not going down the “PC-gone-mad” route and for making the case both for and against criticism. There were some good gags and the lovely sense of easy repartee between the Dwarfers in the Starbug midsection was a massive highlight.

    But as people have said there were one or two gags that felt really, really, really wrong and soured the material around them. Ziggy feels like an easy target. He might work better as a background character for a quick laugh but not as the main guest.

    From a plot POV it’s biggest problem was that it lacked reality and urgency. In that sense it came close to series VIII. The Dwarf crew stopping to sit in a diner when they were supposed to be warning the crew of their IMMANENT DEATHS springs to mind as a key wonky moment. Same goes for there being no discussion at the end of them joining the crew and / or getting back to a time period close to their own. It left Timewave feeling dream-like and ungrounded. I know Doug likes to write long and then cut things back but having a sense of emotional grounding is what makes Red Dwarf feel real and helps it earn it’s wackier moments. Without moments like that, it feels flimsy.

    Still – I didn’t hate it. It just felt like the weaker moments of Back To Earth or VII – too full of logic holes and too silly. Word on the street is the rest of XII is much stronger, so here’s hoping it’s just the unloved middle episode.

  148. The “spit on the wrist” is already the worst gag and most forced in the history of Red Dwarf.

    Yeahhh. It would have made sense (if only in the way it sounded) if he’d been told to ‘slit her wrist’, but that’s not really a great move, s it?
    I still cannot believe that joke made it in. As a professional comedy writer of nearly 40 years standing thinking that was good enough, he should be utterly ashamed. There are about fourteen different things wrong with it. It’s even worse than the ‘theory of relativity’ gag. Worse than amateur.

    Can you please list 12 of the things.

  149. I’ve just checked the Dwarfing USA doc to remind myself what nickname Rob and Doug were given because they kept pointing out problems with the RD USA script: THE WAVE. Short for The Wave of Negativity.

    TIMEWAVE.

    Applauds. Thank you for that. :-)

    Ever since the roller skates being like an eric idle line I have been getting an anti california kid vibe. Any one big on accents know exactly what ziggys voice is supposed to be? Remember that chris barrie character that was garish in flithy rich and catflap.

  150. Oh dear. I went to the recording of this one, and even contributed to the G&T set report saying how much I enjoyed it. Naturally I’ll disembowel myself immediately.

    So what did you think of the finished item?
    I’m quietly shitting myself over M-Corps now.

    I thought it was a pretty boring episode. Johnny Vegas made me chuckle, but not much else. I remember having a great time at the recording (except towards the end when my arse went numb), so overall I’m quite puzzled. Ah well.

  151. Does beg the question as to why the Dwarfers don’t just stay on the ship and catch the wave back to the 24th century. Oh, I guess it doesn’t work like that for …reasons.

    This episode makes me think that having Doug churn out 12 episodes in one go was a big mistake. I understand the need to do a sufficient block to justify the cast’s schedule and the budget….but this episode was at least a few drafts from working. I’m not even comparing it to classic Dwarf; it just falls way short of good Dave Dwarf.

    On a personal level; I do find Dwarf a bit odd in that when it works,it’s usually for story reasons. The story should inform the jokes and characters, so a good story = funny episode = an episode that works. I’m the same with South Park, also mainly scripted by one man, which varies dramatically in quality nowadays. When a story doesn’t work, there’s nothing to raise a smile for me.

    >Grade A stand up comedian. Grade C/D comedy actor.
    To be fair; Johnny Vegas does appear to be character of Michael Pennington’s so he’s always acting.

  152. In Doug’s and everyone’s defense Siliconia must have been one of the hardest episodes to make and surely must have taken the wind out of their sales so to speak. They bounced back pretty well with Cured the week after so I’m hoping normal service resumed.

    I wonder if Doug himself knew it was the weakest and purposely moved Cured to the first episode then following with Siliconia. Two pretty strong starts then getting the weakest over with in the third episode?

  153. in the Starbug midsection scene, what the fuck is Lister doing with the helium-7 sand? he messes around with it, presumably does something, then puts it back in the jar. then when Rimmer walks in, he stares at it in confusion. what was that all about?

  154. Acting on stage, I’m not sure. Pissed, I’m fairly sure.
    There’s such a disparity between his live performance and his acting roles, at least for me, that I’d suggest he’s a natural stand up comedian and a not very good actor. I think one of the problems is that Michael Pennington is such a sweet man, and if he’s given authoritarian roles like this he’s acting against type. Because people probably cast him at least on some level as a drunken loudmouth.
    There’s a lot of supposition in this, I’ll admit. But suppose I’m right…
    I dunno. I think very highly of him, but I didn’t like him in this. A (thought) police officer rubbing his nipples at the idea of being critical. That can fuck off.

    And yes! The sand thing. Directionless… Or am I missing something. Kryten got what he needed from the shoe.

  155. >I dunno. I think very highly of him, but I didn’t like him in this.

    Oh, don’t get me wrong; I thought he was shit. The “orgasm” bit was embarrassing.

  156. Can you please list 12 of the things.

    1. “Clitoris” doesn’t actually sound like “spit on the wrist” because none of the plosives are the same
    2. The number of syllables and rhythm are also different
    3. Chris Barrie has to unnaturally emphasise the “spit” to try and make it scan even though “wrist” would be the dominant word
    4. “Clitoris” is such a strong word to appear out of nowhere that the viewer’s shock of hearing it mutes the line afterwards
    5. “Spit on the wrist” has less verbal impact than “clitoris” so the line is on a melodic descent rather than rising to a cadence
    6. Spitting on a wrist is not far enough away from an act of actual foreplay to work as a transgression
    7. There are loud SFX over the line which not only obscure the delivery, but create a counter rhythm which further tangles up the musicality of the line (see also the cafe scene with Ziggy where there’s background muzak with a 4/4 rhythm – a human being can only process one rhythm at a time so the dialogue beats all drown under it)
    8. Rimmer having had youthful sexual misadventures with girls, however futile, is ultimately a contradiction of his basic backstory
    9. The word “clitoris” has only appeared in Red Dwarf once before, and it was a well-remembered line of Rimmer’s, so to hear Chris Barrie say “clitoris” creates a cognitive dissonance as well as unreachable expectations
    10. The sheer amount of exposition necessary to set the pun up dwarfs the actual joke in syllable mileage and means that Chris Barrie doesn’t have enough breath to give “spit on the wrist” the hit it needs
    11. The dub seems to wash the line over with laughter before it has finished, dampening it even further
    12. Doug Naylor has a smelly arse

  157. He was, wasn’t he. I’m glad I’m not the only person to think it.

    I think he’s at his best in the PG Tips commercials. Because, I suspect, he’s being most like himself.

  158. I really liked Timewave. The Rimmer planet gag was funny at first but went on a bit too long. Didn’t mind any of the guest characters performances and for me Johnny Vegas was the stand out guest character possibly for me the best guest actor since Kevin Eldon. I didn’t like the rushed ending but this for me made me laugh out loud far more than Cursed which has a better plot than Timewave. As long as it makes me laugh out loud I don’t care as much about the plot. 7.5 out of 10 for me

  159. Rewatched it knowing it was shite which made me find a couple of moments to appreciate but not much. Basically, the Rimmer/Kryten toy soldier/isotope collection exchange in the prison. Rimmer’s ‘You’re weird’ made me laugh. I might still have been being charmed by those pink lights and yellow bed frames though.

    It was basically just a diner with a prison, though, wasn’t it?

  160. Oh, and one of those extremely necessary rooms for extracting critical internal voices, obviously.

  161. I think it would have been much worse without Johnny Vegas. It’s hard to see anyone doing a particularly better job with that material, really. A better actor might have been defeated altogether. Johnny Vegas is never less than watchable in anything. Even Sex Lives of the Potato Men.

  162. I’ve just checked the Dwarfing USA doc to remind myself what nickname Rob and Doug were given because they kept pointing out problems with the RD USA script: THE WAVE. Short for The Wave of Negativity.

    TIMEWAVE.
    Applauds. Thank you for that. :-)
    Ever since the roller skates being like an eric idle line I have been getting an anti california kid vibe. Any one big on accents know exactly what ziggys voice is supposed to be? Remember that chris barrie character that was garish in flithy rich and catflap.

    A Paul Lynde impression?

  163. My immediate thought is that Mark Heap and Pearce Quigley would have both been better. (And Quigley would have added to Darrell’s ‘Detectorists’ tally.) But I’m not after a fight. It’s good to see Vegas getting some appreciation.

  164. Pearce Quigley, not in a dress, would definitely have saved the character of Ziggy.

  165. Wonder what Paul Alexander is doing these days?

  166. I preferred Dear Dave to this but I think this is better than Can Of Worms. The ending was like a Disney channel sit com as was most of the second half. Disappointing but not series VIII levels.

  167. This episode (and the previous two) have convinced me that what Red Dwarf really needs now is an influx of new writers.

    Fuck no. We’ve been there before.

    I remember Doug announcing that Paul Alexander was on board and genuinely citing the S Club 7 movie as if it were to his credit.

    Weirdly I’d take Timewave over any episode of VIII, though it was pretty fucking dire. (I was going to say “except for Cassandra” but then I remembered Rimmer saying “Can I keep these?” about KK’s underwear and remembering what a pile of shash even the best episode of VIII was).

    IMO both Timewave and Dear Dave are better than Can of Worms, though admittedly that’s not saying much…..

    You might be right there. Can of Worms is a particularly low point for me and brings to mind ‘How the Elephant got its Trunk,’ the final episode of The League of Gentlemen‘s third season: an obvious rush job and a botched attempt at fan service, accidentally giving us far too much of something we’d previously enjoyed. Both CoW and HtEGiT (as the cool kids call them) feel like weird dreams – but not in a good way.

    I don’t think Timewave is as bad as people are saying here. But, yes, we’re a long way from Back to Reality.

    Fuck. That ‘Lieutenant Asshole’ thing. Uh.

  168. I remember Doug announcing that Paul Alexander was on board and genuinely citing the S Club 7 movie as if it were to his credit.

    Strange he did that considering the S Club 7 movie came out five years after Paul Alexander wrote his final script contribution to Red Dwarf.

  169. Strange he did that considering the S Club 7 movie came out five years after Paul Alexander wrote his final script contribution to Red Dwarf.

    You know, I worried that I hadn’t remembered correctly so I checked IMDB before posting. PA’s S Club shit came out the same year as his RD episodes, so presumably Doug knew he was working on S Club around the same time. Definite memory!

  170. I nominate Darrell’s clitoris analysis for Hall of Fame Status

  171. For those going to panic stations about the rest of the series due to one episode, having seen episodes 4,5 & 6 recorded I firmly expect 2 of those to be in my top 5 (maybe even top 3) Dave Dwarf episodes, and the other one was still very funny. Just my opinion but I’m prepared to stake my reputation on it (‘no, but I’m hoping to acquire one…’ etc.)

  172. I nominate Darrell’s clitoris analysis for Hall of Fame Status

    I, meanwhile, nominate Darrell’s clitoris for Hall of Fame status.

  173. I’m disappointed that they didn’t cast Jake Wood as Crit Crazy.

  174. probably my least favorite of atleast X, Xi and XII although it was quite funny just parts were a bit, meh.

  175. Mechocracy is my most anticipated episode of the series. I am keen to see an episode set on board the Dwarf having had virtually nothing in the first half of the season, the plot sounds great and I have an inkling what the special surprise alluded to in the set reports is.

  176. I’m still looking forward to M-Corp so I can be very proud when it’s got nothing to do with Samsara’s Mega Corps because of hOW WORDS ARE SPELT.

  177. Fairly baffling how Johnny Vegas’ character isn’t even given a name.

  178. As someone who has never written anything like a script before, except perhaps as part of a school drama exercise, this episode has really made me want to have a go at writing another draft. This wouldn’t necessarily be any better than Timewave but it might make me happier. Just nothing in Timewave really feels good enough to the point where I reckon I could perhaps improve some things as far as my standards go.

    The key thing I keep thinking about is when they first meet Ziggy. Perhaps because this is the first point where alarm bells really started ringing for me. Instead I’d have it as a regular guy who has no real eccentricities but is wearing some funny clothing. The guys have just agreed that they need to be on their best behaviour and this guy walks around the corner and they all act a bit surprised for about a second but quickly adjust to the fact that this is just how this guy likes to dress. Exposition scene begins but Cat is stood there really trying not to say something and instead finds himself blurting out pained compliments that reflect his anguish at having to witness this fashion disaster as the rest of the guys learn from this guy about how the ship runs. “yellow shinpads over flairs, I didn’t think anyone could pull that off but you’re doing a great job” cat moans. Scene ends with the end of the exposition. As they exit Cat is going on a little mini rant to Lister about the clothing in hushed tones. Lister doesn’t really give a smeg.

    They enter the diner and see a lot of people are just wearing some odd clothes – but not everyone. They talk about criticism as they do in the filmed episode, and how being left with no judgement leaves you able to “do what you want, wear what you want, eat what you want.” They get handed the menus. Cat and Rimmer start moaning about the options of “tuna and raspberry sorbet” and other horrible sounding meals. Cut to Lister who’s talking to a waitress, ordering a particularly toxic sounding meal. The guys look disgusted and he explains that it was something he used to cook when he was back on Earth and low on money. “You’ll eat any old rubbish” Rimmer says quite loudly, at which point Kryten reminds them that they need to keep comments like that to themselves. Kryten then spots a staff member serving food onto a plate that has clearly just been used and not cleaned, stains of pasta sauce still on its base. He loses it and lectures the staff member on hygiene and such. Crit cops get called…

    I mean that’s just some quick ideas which would certainly need some refinement and, y’know, full dialogue but it’s just the idea of putting some character based jokes into the scenes. Not always highly original jokes but some new spins (I think) on some classic ground.

    I’d also rid of that bit about Lister being crap at guitar still. Probably go for a hygiene joke or something instead.

    L: “Criticism can be good can’t it, it forces people to become better.”
    K: “Well not always sir, take you.”
    L: “Me?”
    K: “Well sir, there’s the way you brush your teeth. After your toothbrush broke you started to just rub your teeth with your fingers every night.”
    L: “Yeah, and you told me it was gross so I got some new toothbrushes.”
    K: “Yes but you just got the used ones from other people’s sleeping quarters.”
    L: “Well I can’t be bother to go down to Level 4 for supplies!”

  179. Pros:
    Jhonny vegas’ performance was great.
    moon rimmer scene.
    the sets.
    rimmers inner critic scene.

    Cons:
    Everything else really.

    Overall:
    some great laughs but is disapointing due to the greatness of both siliconia and cured.

  180. Wow. I got a whiff of the bad feeling towards this ep before watching it and so I figured “maybe my lowered expectations will mean I enjoy it more” but it was even worse than I’d imagined; there were SO MANY offensively bad jokes (clitoris, circumcision, flat titties) that were so embarrassingly awful that I wish they didn’t exist and for them to all be in ONE episode…..

    If we’re actually looking at it in a more constructive way, I found it ridiculous that Rimmer was more concerned for ‘Planet Rimmer’s safety than his own. Had he put it before the other crew members, fine, but himself?! I was disappointed to see that this was the ep that the ‘evil Rimmer’ appeared in as it was very much wasted (though his high-pitched “that was horrible!” before evaporating gave me the only genuine LOL moment of the ep).

    I think this is the closest to series 8 that the new era has come. The ‘tutterer’ they met in jail reminded me of Kill Krazy in his delivery.

  181. I nominate Darrell’s clitoris analysis for Hall of Fame Status

    I, meanwhile, nominate Darrell’s clitoris for Hall of Fame status.

    Aw guys. With friends like these who NEEDS clitorises.

  182. Wow. I got a whiff of the bad feeling towards this ep before watching it and so I figured “maybe my lowered expectations will mean I enjoy it more” but it was even worse than I’d imagined; there were SO MANY offensively bad jokes (clitoris, circumcision, flat titties) that were so embarrassingly awful that I wish they didn’t exist and for them to all be in ONE episode…..

    If we’re actually looking at it in a more constructive way, I found it ridiculous that Rimmer was more concerned for ‘Planet Rimmer’s safety than his own. Had he put it before the other crew members, fine, but himself?! I was disappointed to see that this was the ep that the ‘evil Rimmer’ appeared in as it was very much wasted (though his high-pitched “that was horrible!” before evaporating gave me the only genuine LOL moment of the ep).
    I think this is the closest to series 8 that the new era has come. The ‘tutterer’ they met in jail reminded me of Kill Krazy in his delivery.

    unpopular opinion i really liked series 8

  183. unpopular opinion i really liked series 8

    Ah, yes, there’s new episodes on, what better thing to do than discuss the merits of series VIII?

  184. I really liked it at the time.

    Unpopular opinion… I really like series 7. I think series 8 is a reaction to people not liking the drama in 7 so it feels like every-other line has a joke crammed in.

    That’s one of the things I’ve really enjoyed about the last 9 episodes is that the dialogue actually has room to breath and Doug doesn’t feel the need to have rapid-fire jokes. It feels more confident (most recent ep aside…)

  185. thought: if you hadn’t known that Timewave was “the one where johnny vegas has a nipplegasm”, wouldn’t you think that the first 5 or 6 minutes are leading up to a plotline where they go back to Earth?

    at the start, Rimmer makes a very specific remark about how if he “could get back to Earth in the 23rd century I’d be rich” or something- then they discover a wibbly time thing that can bring them back to the past, and also just so happens to wash up a faster-than-light ship from the 23rd century.

  186. Glad to see virtually everyone else also thought this episode sucked. Why set up all this exposition about time waves (not to mention name the episode after them) if all the story is focused on is the lousy criticism idea?
    There were a couple of decent bits (the moon scene, Rimmer’s inner critic) but it was mostly a load of half-baked wank. Plus it had some of the worst bottom-of-the-barrel attempts at jokes (1970s BBC, spit on the wrist).
    Another problem was that the only science-fiction here was poor retreads of ideas from Future Echoes, Confidence & Paranoia, and Terrorform.
    Maybe two back-to-back series was a bad idea. They should’ve ditched the weaker scripts and narrowed it down to one six-episode series instead.

  187. Wonder what Paul Alexander is doing these days?

    Writing the sequel to Krytie TV

    That was very much 85% his episode judging by the Series 8 Script book.

  188. Darrell just “8 Miled” Me.

    Like 11 distinct intelligent critiques notes to one Doug line, and an arse joke and BOOM
    Drop the mic. I can’t follow that. I’m a clitoris head.

  189. Another problem was that the only science-fiction here was poor retreads of ideas from Future Echoes, Confidence & Paranoia, and Terrorform..

    You can tell Doug wrote all these episodes around the same time because they do seem abit formulaic.

    I mean we got an episode where Guest characters act a certain odd way because something is against the law like twentica.

    Another Machine they are forced into thats gonna change them in some way just a week after the episode where they were put into a machine and turned into krytens.

    They find a different ship almost every week.

    Guitar jokes each episode and back references that seem to be repeating.

  190. I think it’s possible I may never watch this episode again.

  191. Guitar jokes each episode and back references that seem to be repeating.

    Weird to hear ‘the OM song’ referenced again.

  192. and for making the case both for and against criticism.

    Yes, there was potential for a lot of depth about the very complex subject at hand, but it was explored via ‘floppy titties’ and camp men in pink dresses.

    Same goes for there being no discussion at the end of them joining the crew and / or getting back to a time period close to their own.

    Does beg the question as to why the Dwarfers don’t just stay on the ship and catch the wave back to the 24th century. Oh, I guess it doesn’t work like that for …reasons.

    They were initially trying to escape the Timewave because, had it taken them back, they would have been plunged even further into deep space (or something similar). I’ve noticed Doug’s done a lot of this in XI and XII, very quickly tied up the status quo in a scientific sentence that it’s possible to miss.

    This episode makes me think that having Doug churn out 12 episodes in one go was a big mistake.

    I have wondered if we’ll end XI & XII with a potentially amazing six episode run, each of which was maybe a draft away from brilliance, and six more episodes of… ‘varying’ quality.

  193. I hope everyone who bashed Spambot in the original set report have their fist locked inside their mouth right now.

  194. Head canon Alert:

    Why has space been so populated in recent episodes….

    Timewaves….. That is all

  195. That is the most compelling argument to justify this ep’s existence so far.

  196. Its populated because its easier to write for new and different guest characters than just the 4 guys every week. ;p

  197. I hope everyone who bashed Spambot in the original set report have their fist locked inside their mouth right now.

    Why would they do that? People repeatedly said that Spambot’s opinion on the episode was perfectly valid, the problem was them setting themselves up as an expert in TV production and saying that the episode would look dreadful, which it didn’t. Hopefully Spambot will come back and apologise for this error in judgement.

  198. >I hope everyone who bashed Spambot in the original set report have their fist locked inside their mouth right now.

    Spambot made some excellent points about writing and performances. He also made some stupid comments about not having a good view of what was going on because a camera crew were selfiishly trying to record a TV show. Unfortunately, the latter was what he chose to bang a drum about.

  199. Id like to offer cat’s early line about an acid trip to all the people who wish this entire episode can be written off

    as an unreality pocket.
    Don’t quite understand rimmers look at the hydrogen jar. Anyone got an idea on that shot?

    I may be wrong but Lister sprinkled his curry with either salt or pepper etc or he mistook the hydrogen jar thinking it was salt or pepper.

  200. Oh dear. I went to the recording of this one, and even contributed to the G&T set report saying how much I enjoyed it. Naturally I’ll disembowel myself immediately.

    I wouldn’t worry, you gave yourself an excellent caveat:

    It’s tough to say, though, as I enjoyed the last episode I went to see recorded, but wasn’t too keen when it aired.

    In spambot’s defence, his initial comments regarding the quality of the show itself were met with a touch of scepticism in that thread too – his later production-related posts were awful, but it seems that most of his criticisms (ha) of the episode were valid.

  201. Id like to offer cat’s early line about an acid trip to all the people who wish this entire episode can be written off

    as an unreality pocket.
    Don’t quite understand rimmers look at the hydrogen jar. Anyone got an idea on that shot?
    I may be wrong but Lister sprinkled his curry with either salt or pepper etc or he mistook the hydrogen jar thinking it was salt or pepper.

    i pointed this out in the official site’s forum, and according to some bloke who replied to me what’s happening there is earlier in the scene, Lister is messing around with the hydrogen sand and as Rimmer walks in he chucks it on the floor to prevent Rimmer from seeing that he’s taken some. at the end of the scene, Rimmer looks at the jar presumably noticing it’s a bit lighter than it should be. and because Lister chucked it on the floor, it’s on his boots later in the episode.

    i don’t know if that’s what is actually happening in the scene, but it seems the most plausible explanation despite how convoluted it is

  202. I think they meet roughly the same number of people or things. One thing Dave Dwarf does have that I don’t think BBC Dwarf has is meeting humans frozen in stasis (Telford, Barker and Green, Professor E) – in BBC Dwarf it was generally simulants and robots. Which is perhaps why the show feels more populated these days.

  203. Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, some genuine big laughs in this episode, really liked Johnny Vegas, there was one particular line which I’m sure if I scroll up I’ll see plenty of criticism for but I found it hilarious… but overall I think this was the worst episode since Lemons, which was the worst episode since Pete.

  204. I just about liked Timewave. I felt like the first half of the episode was a bit weak, but it improved in the second half, particularly with the Critic Rimmer scene.

    Bits I liked:
    – Cat going off the rails with the police.
    – Critic Rimmer.
    – The Space Corps directive line.
    – The visuals.

    Bits I choose to criticise:
    – Ziggy, who felt like (at best) an ersatz Vulva or Bob Fossil.
    – ‘Planet Rimmer’ being called ‘Planet Rimmer’ when it’s a moon. Did I miss a joke or did they just start randomly calling it ‘Planet Rimmer’? The greedy smegger already has Rimmerworld.
    – Spit on the wrist – eh? How did someone of Doug’s undoubted talent think that was a good joke?

    Timewave was probably the worst Dave era episode since Dear Dave. For those who really didn’t like it, at least it wasn’t the political correctness gone made episode we were all fearing.

    I’ve enjoyed the first three episodes of XII, especially Siliconia, but I’m hoping the series picks up a little in the second byte, as so far it’s some way behind XI’s first half. Part of me thinks the first three episodes have been too similar. They’ve all had big guest casts, most of whom have been played for laughs. This creates a bit of an unwanted parallel with what I disliked about most of VIII, which was very little was taken seriously and as a result the programme had very little depth. I know it’s a sitcom, but Red Dwarf I feel succeeds when the four main characters are riffing off a serious sci-fi plot and/or having heartfelt character moments rather than almost everything being a joke. That probably sounds too negative given I liked all three episodes though.

  205. Somebody on Twitter said this was their second favourite episode. Fucking hell.

  206. Discussed in the Dwarfcast, but calling a moon Planet Rimmer is exactly the kind of thing Rimmer would to to boost his own ego

  207. We’ve done the Nazi, the one where everyone’s Kryten and the Pink Policeman.

    We’re going to get through this.

  208. The problem with any long running comedy not even just Sci-fi is we all have our opinions on what future episodes should be like which is more valid nowadays in the age of fan fiction where we can each write our own what we think is perfect episode which I’ve never done to be honest. I don’t disagree badly with any of the comments above as it’s all each persons opinion but we all still have to be thankful similar to Dr Who that when a crap episode airs that it’s still a positive that the show got brought back in the first place. That’s not to say we should all be thankful for Timewave by the way but surely within the next decade or so the show will be finished for goodand we won’t have nights like last night watching brand new Dwarf which is where the rose tinted glasses enter 😉

  209. We’ve had spit on her wrist, Formica, Jeff K, and one other pretty poor pun I just forgot. Giant testicle in BtE was passable I guess, but maybe these kinds of jokes aren’t the show’s forte

  210. Giant testicle works because of the reactions to it. It’s the sort of joke where I immediately think “no, this is shit”, and then as the scene goes on it reveals there are still good jokes to be found in it.

  211. Seen a lot of love for it on Twitter. Philistines!

    This is only the second time I’ve ever felt gutted when the Red Dwarf credits rolled, the other being Back to Earth Part 3… and at least with that I was satisfied with the mini-series as a whole. Been watching since 1992 so this does include VII and VIII too.

    And I’m only annoyed from a place of love and good intentions for the show. Yeah it’s not utterly without merit (in danger of repeating myself but first 8 minutes approx were decent and Rimmer’s inner critic deserved a much better episode surrounding it) but i was truly deflated when the episode ended on first viewing. Therefore I don’t empathise at all with some of the glowing gush I’ve seen about Timewave outside of this site.

  212. Seen a lot of love for it on Twitter. Philistines!.

    Series 8 was praised to no end back in 1999 also.

    Comedy is subjective so the episode could have been nothing but fart jokes and there would be alot of people still finding it funny.

    Although if you put it side by side to classic dwarf and still give it alot of love then i don’t get what made this show successful anymore.

  213. The overall reaction from the general audience on twitter has been about 80% positive of all 3 episodes so far, from what i have seen, and that’s the reaction Doug sees, not us having our moan here, i believe on release VIII was VERY highly viewed and generally well received by the general Audience.

  214. I still think it was better than Pete, Krytie TV or Ouroboros.

  215. The thing that annoys me with Only Fools repeats from the 80’s is that they now remove all the current un-PC lines from it on repeats even though at the time it got a laugh. Red Dwarf was born in the eighties so seventies jokes about Saville/Glitter are perfectly fine for me. The problem with the noughties and this decade is that people imho have got too used to complaining labelling something as not PC. Sod PC with regards Red Dwarf is what I have to say as it was never PC in the 80’s so people can’t expect it to be now

  216. Yep they put quotes at the back of the Red Dwarf 8 script book

    SFX – “Red Dwarf VIII was a triumph!”

    The Fanclub magazine did a poll with readers and VIII was the third best Series of the show with series 2 being second and series 5 being first.

    But many years later and series 8 is now considered a poor series among the fandom and i assume Doug knows this.

  217. Later Red Dwarf seems to get a pretty easy ride on initial broadcast from most mainstream angles. I recall the reviews for Series VIII being very favorable (I think this was around the time I stopped buying magazines). And then the buzz of the new series dies away and “general consensus” seems to get revised a little later. In advance of the next series, we’re back to comments about how it’s never been the same since Rob Grant left. Repeat for BTE, X, XI etc…

  218. OK, that was really, really shit. Have we ever had so much swearing in one episode? Everything about it felt weird/wrong. The story, the guest cast, the acting. It all felt off. The effects/sets were nice though. The only thing the episode had going for it really. One of the worst Red Dwarf episodes ever made. Too much of the same stuff every episode. Too many similar references/callbacks, similar story elements / events from preceding episodes. It’s all so disappointing after the first two episodes which were frankly rather good and some of the best modern episodes of the show we’ve had. Doug needs help. He can’t write the show properly any more. Too much broad humour, uncharacteristic scenes/lines and rehashed ideas. Get some new blood in or let the show die because that episode was frankly embarrassing.

  219. Id like to offer cat’s early line about an acid trip to all the people who wish this entire episode can be written off

    as an unreality pocket.
    Don’t quite understand rimmers look at the hydrogen jar. Anyone got an idea on that shot?

    I have a theory regarding the hydrogen jar.
    There are some very obvious shots of Lister stealing some, and Rimmer being suspicious that some is missing. Then, in the jail cell, Kryten obtains a microscopic particle off Lister’s shoe. I am inclined to think that at some point there was originally a scene where the amount Kryten found wasn’t enough to blow open the cell, and so Lister was forced to confess his theft in order to save them, no doubt leading to comical outrage from Rimmer. But at some point, that has been cut out.

    And as for my opinion on the episode overall… you’re gonna hate me, but I liked it the best of this series so far. Pretty much all the negative points people have cited are valid – I didn’t like some of the unnecessary crude lines, I felt it could be seen as skating close to homophobia although I do think that we’re meant to be laughing at people just expressing themselves to the maximum rather than laughing at campness, and although it doesn’t hit home I believe Doug was trying to shine a light on how much of ‘normal’ behaviour is controlled by our fear of what other people think.
    I feel that there are some great moments in this episode – if you can get past the misogynistic lines, some of Cat’s dialogue is as good as it’s ever been, like the joke about hanging around with other guys. Danny’s face when he confronts the cop is comedy gold. Tutting Guy was excellent. Johnny Vegas was not actually camping it up in his role, although some will have convinced themselves that he was simply because of his outfit, and I found him very funny.
    To me, it had the feeling of a Series 3 show, possibly due to the return of Chris Barrie’s Terrorform Voice and the mention of the Armee du Nord,
    But the abrupt ending was total cobblers. I wish they’d stop doing that.

  220. >The Fanclub magazine did a poll with readers and VIII was the third best Series of the show with series 2 being second and series 5 being first.

    And this was around the time I cancelled my membership.

  221. Lister’s opinion on saving humans seems to have rather shifted in this episode as well. In Cured Lister is adamant that some of the worst people in history should be saved, but seems to be the most keen to leave the ship in Timewave because the crew are a bit weird. I think anyone who prefers to use a urinal rather than an actual toilet is a bit weird, but I wouldn’t condemn them to death.

  222. I’m still looking forward to M-Corp so I can be very proud when it’s got nothing to do with Samsara’s Mega Corps because of hOW WORDS ARE SPELT.

    It’s a good episode. Better than this one. Watch everyone disagree with me after it’s broadcast!

  223. Wackyworld
    Critics
    Trippy Walls
    Frock Coat
    Uncritty City
    Yellow Bedframes
    Helium 7
    Droopy Titties
    Titticism
    Reversing Robot
    Tobor
    Mental Diner
    Shameless
    Self Censor Ship
    If You Can’t Say Anything Nice…

  224. Krysotope Arm Collection
    Krytical Thinking
    PC Orgasm
    Costume Budget
    Coarse Cat
    Outréfits
    Anticriticism

  225. Problem is you get the fans who think they know the show inside out after reading babbys guide to Red Dwarf, and think their opinion matters. Somebody said on Twitter that this was the best episode ever?!?!

  226. Problem is you get the fans who think they know the show inside out after reading babbys guide to Red Dwarf, and think their opinion matters. Somebody said on Twitter that this was the best episode ever?!?!

    Hello, Rob.

  227. The first 8 minutes of the episode aren’t THAT bad. We still get yet another annoying *something happens* *somebody says ‘what happened?’* *Kryten explains* Starbug scene. But there are some genuine laughs, and I don’t mind the gas moon scene. The little stuff Craig is doing in that scene is great, it’s like his series 1-2 self back, which I guess they were going for. Granted, Rimmer’s story of how kids at his school all used to get prizes is too on-the-nose for words, and definitely Doug having a PC-gone-mad rant, of sorts. Despite them being old(er) men now I really don’t like the idea of episodes becoming ‘old men having a rant’, it’s supposed to be timeless!

  228. Red Dwarf now is 80% to current comedy tastes, and the current taste for the most part, is “not adverse to being clever, but don’t go mad and maybe throw in a sex or bum joke”.

    Of the other 20%, 5% is classical Dwarf, and unfortunately based on recent jokes, 15% now seems to be humour from a 1978 ITV sitcom about a misogynist green grocer.

    Calling it now, they’ll get a guest writer in but it’ll be Jim Davidson.

    They’ll bring Kochanski back but she’ll be in stockings and suspenders and the crew will call her a tart every week.

    Then they’ll put it on an overpriced t-shirt and spell something wrong haha

  229. >The Fanclub magazine did a poll with readers and VIII was the third best Series of the show with series 2 being second and series 5 being first.

    And this was around the time I cancelled my membership.

    We got better!

  230. Okay, so, still figuring out how I feel about what I just watched. I guess some random thoughts, in no particular order:

    I think I liked it a little more than the rest of you seem to. I enjoyed it more than Can of Worms, which, aside from the birth scene and the admittedly brilliant triple Mexican standoff, was a garbled unstructured mess; this at least had structure and a theme to it. It’s definitely a victim of bad timing, though a garish spaceship with manchild kids’ drawings where nobody can take criticism is actually boosted a bit by the Trump era. I can imagine a parallel world where the ‘grope’ joke killed, but definitely not in this world right now.

    Kryten’s description of the Timewave receding and pulling things back might explain what would happen to the Encomium. An equal and opposite reaction of sorts (like the Rift in that S2 Torchwood episode correcting its mistakes). So there wouldn’t just be another human ship flying around. But it’s really starting to grate how much the encounters with humanity aren’t addressed. I don’t need Lister to be the last human, but it’s still a big deal when new humans show up, and that needs to be given some weight. We’ve got a whole ship here where the dialogue seems to indicate a whole society is on board, including at least one female on roller-skates. Some acknowledgement at some point of this is really needed. If encounters with humans are going to be a regular thing, I want to see Lister dealing with that in some kind of meaningful fashion.

    I actually liked the sets a lot. Really enjoying the Starbug 19 interior, which I guess functionally is a hybrid of the VI midsection with the table and the III-V midsection where they talk about stuff on the way to their main location. All the sets on the Encomium were pretty neat. Even the jail cell had a cool design to it. My money is still on the green wall of the Starbug 19 interior being used for the Series XII DVD cover, but if they went with one of the pink sets here, pink’s an interesting color for a Red Dwarf cover. I also really, really liked the diner set, full of weirdos at the different booths. It was underused a bit, but I thought it looked really cool, even if nothing vital really happened there. The visual of the Dwarfers just hanging out at a 50’s-style diner with costumed weirdos made me happy.

    All in all, no, definitely not a great episode. But I don’t hate it either. It’s bad, but in some weird meta way, it almost saves itself by being as garishly bad as the Encomium society. This episode has a personality to it, and I’ll always remember it as the “pink” one where everything is really silly and stupid. My biggest critiques are that the concept (of critiques) could have been polished and focused a little more to have a more consistent point (the Lego Movie’s Cloud Cuckooland and the sophisticated morals of that movie come to mind). The other critique is that the normal Dwarf humor was a little undercooked in general, not the criticism stuff, but the Cat telling Rimmer to “stay” or “change” a MILLION times was ridiculous. Pick one of those lines and scrap the others. 12 times an episode? It’s a good job Rimmer was there, or the others would’ve been dead within a week. There was something off about the Dwarfers’ dialogue, even before the titular Timewave.

    (Also, was Lister messing with the helium when they’re in Starbug? What was happening with the bottle there? Rimmer comes in and Lister acts super-suspicious.)

    The broad panto style of this episode isn’t my preference, but since it falls within the weekly concept of this particular episode, I won’t lament it too much. (The grope joke and Cat’s ‘titties’ line were a bit uncomfortable, it has to be said.) It’s definitely a cousin of that Series VIII humor, but Series VIII meandered and was just random, whereas this episode actually did have a whole bunch of jokes that worked for me (it’s funny how a little structure goes a long way). Johnny Vegas was great throughout, and the weird dad’s friend from Broadchurch guy in the jail cell was actually really funny, too. The drawings, wing flapping and Tate modern jokes all made me laugh, and the Rimmer critic was awesome, the coolest Barrie performance we’ve seen on Dwarf in some time (and also kind of reminds me of the toxin-versions of the main characters from that recent Rick and Morty episode).

    So, not my favorite episode, but still liked it better than Can of Worms and all of VIII. So far, Cured is my favorite ep in a long time, Siliconia is a decent, thoughtful character piece, and this is just the “crazy pink episode I’ll enjoy more when I’m drunk.”

  231. Problem is you get the fans who think they know the show inside out after reading babbys guide to Red Dwarf, and think their opinion matters. Somebody said on Twitter that this was the best episode ever?!?!

    Your opinion doesn’t matter any more than anybody else’s, except to yourself, obviously

  232. Oh, additional: Rimmer’s Space Corps Directive immediately followed by “Shut up Kryten” was perfect and sublime and worth the price of admission for me, granting this episode about seventy-thousand more points than it would otherwise deserve.

  233. Can they please actually just leave Rimmer once? I would love a surreal episode where they’re joking about leaving Rimmer behind then accidentally do, and they all just are pleasantly surprised by how nicely things are going and Rimmer has to cope with himself for an extended period of time. I’ve also got ideas of how it could sound less stupid before you say it’s stupid and could never work. I’ve also got proof that being stupid doesn’t stop RD.

  234. I do actually wonder if we’ll have to hear Doug whine about triggered offended whiny snowflake liberal cucks. I somehow doubt he’s going to use the made-up language for it, just whine about how kids are too sensitive and just go on about how he used to be able to call gay people whatever he pleased or some crap like that

    Am I reading too much into this episode?

  235. Can they please actually just leave Rimmer once? I would love a surreal episode where they’re joking about leaving Rimmer behind then accidentally do, and they all just are pleasantly surprised by how nicely things are going and Rimmer has to cope with himself for an extended period of time.

    I like this idea. Maybe there could be some kind of time-warping plot device so that Rimmer has to stay on his own for ages while only a relatively short period of time passes for the other three. You could have Rimmer get so frustrated with being alone that he builds his own society based on himself! I wonder what that would look like.

  236. >We got better!

    I don’t doubt that, Jo! :-)

    >You could have Rimmer get so frustrated with being alone that he builds his own society based on himself!

    And they could call the episode…”Planet Rimmer”

  237. Rimmer’s World
    Rimmeria
    Dear Rimmer
    Settler Rimmer
    Arnold of the Apocalypse

    One of the guys on the Dwarfcast has a very attractive, passionate voice! He’s my favourite.

  238. (Back on topic)

    JMC Flag
    Sandhands
    Lovely Fruit
    Idiartists
    Feather Duster
    Scarface
    Pink
    Handsands
    Imprisoned
    Three Captures
    Taser Taser
    End Credits

    So I suppose my point here is that any one of these possible titles would have been as relevant to the overall episode as ‘Timewave’.

  239. “Doug Naylor Presents…. Satire!”
    “The Long Clitoris of the Law.”

  240. Doing a rewatch.

    The sets are nice. The ship corridors (and perhaps also parts of the score) reminds me of DNA.

    The models are gorgeous, though not quite topping last week’s gorgeousness.

    Ziggy’s not so bad really. Weird that they didn’t get Rich Fulcher though.

    I’m embarrassed that a comedian of Johnny Vegas’ stature had to read lines from this script: it’s full of rotten non-jokes and dull feeds. Listen to when he says “Who cares about you?” That’s a rotten non-joke AND a dull feed, which is quite an accomplishment!

    The tutter is naff. The lad can’t act and he reminds us simultaneously of Kill Krazy and Ackerman: Red Dwarf’s darkest moment. For that matter, I never want to see a prison bunk room in Red Dwarf ever again.

    And I know people have lamented “spit on a wrist” a lot already, but I can’t not whine about it. I mean, it’s not anything.

    Still, that Space Corps Directives gag. That was a good one.

  241. The premise has echoes of Rob’s novel Incompetence. It’s a interesting idea but the episode takes it nowhere interesting.

    You know, it’s so much like Incompetence that if Rob Grant didn’t give permission for this, he should have words with Doug.

    Timewave’s central concept isn’t exactly that “criticism is illegal” as blurbed but that “it is illegal to discriminate against the tacky, the inept and the useless,” which is exactly the same premise as Rob’s novel.

  242. G&T Admin

    One of the guys on the Dwarfcast has a very attractive, passionate voice! He’s my favourite.

    That could only have been Pendo.

  243. I for one quite enjoyed it.

    Red Dwarf has a fine history of borrowing costumes. Cat’s green zebra print blazer from Bodyswap was previously worn by Rik Mayall in the Nolan Sisters episode of Filthy, Rich and Catflap.

  244. You know, it’s so much like Incompetence that if Rob Grant didn’t give permission for this, he should have words with Doug.

    What I find curious is that due to officially sanctioned information that we now know about show 6, presumably Doug will have had to clear that script with Rob. Which makes that point about Incompetence doubly interesting. For what it’s worth I don’t think one rips off the other, it’s kind of inevitable that two writers who were inseparable for years riff on the same chords.

    Anyone else notice how Rob suddenly disappeared from Twitter as soon as the XI/XII wagon got rolling? He didn’t even post about series 2 of Reluctant Persuaders or the Quanderhorn announcement. I kind of want to give him a hug.

  245. What I find curious is that due to officially sanctioned information that we now know about show 6, presumably Doug will have had to clear that script with Rob. Which makes that point about Incompetence doubly interesting.

    That’s interesting. Forgive me, but I’m not a regular forum member. I don’t suppose you’d link me to the thread (or other form of information) about that element of show 6?

  246. One of the guys on the Dwarfcast has a very attractive, passionate voice! He’s my favourite.

    That could only have been Pendo.

    Don’t underestimate yourself.

  247. That’s interesting. Forgive me, but I’m not a regular forum member. I don’t suppose you’d link me to the thread (or other form of information) about that element of show 6?

    It’s in the Den Of Geek interview, underneath the picture of Rimmer in his series 1 uniform. I’m trying to be vague even though the bag that particular cat was in has been empty for some time now.

  248. It’s in the Den Of Geek interview, underneath the picture of Rimmer in his series 1 uniform. I’m trying to be vague even though the bag that particular cat was in has been empty for some time now.

    Got it! Thank you.

  249. Oh no wait it was ‘John Hoare’ I think.

  250. Cat’s green zebra print blazer from Bodyswap was previously worn by Rik Mayall in the Nolan Sisters episode of Filthy, Rich and Catflap.

    Great, now I’m going to be singing “I’m in the mood for Richie” in my head all day.

  251. Cat’s green zebra print blazer from Bodyswap was previously worn by Rik Mayall in the Nolan Sisters episode of Filthy, Rich and Catflap.

    Great, now I’m going to be singing “I’m in the mood for Richie” in my head all day.

    He’s not titchy…

  252. Overall it’s BETTER than I thought….. Still a shit ending, and ideas that genuinely defy belief at their inclusion (if you’re never criticised in your life you start dressing and acting in a…certain way? bizarre…:p). The highlight is Johnny Vegas rubbing himself.

  253. ‘United America’ is almost like something out of Incompetence as well, if I remember… Anway, we’re all assuming Doug has read the book or even knows the plot of it, which is not necessarily the case.

    Btw I think the Starbug midsection is basically built within the bunkroom? and the diner here was a redress of the Twentica bar?

  254. What I find curious is that due to officially sanctioned information that we now know about show 6, presumably Doug will have had to clear that script with Rob.

    Might he not have theoretically have had to clear Mechocracy with Rob too? It would be interesting to know if they had to clear that one with anyone else, too…

  255. This does bring up the interesting point of whether Doug has ever contacted Rob about Dave Dwarf – BtE was commissioned just over a year after they worked together on The Bodysnatcher Collection, after all. And I wonder if Doug ever thought to contact him about making Rimmer Sr not Rimmer’s biological father…

  256. Problem is you get the fans who think they know the show inside out after reading babbys guide to Red Dwarf, and think their opinion matters. Somebody said on Twitter that this was the best episode ever?!?!

    No-one’s opinion matters.

  257. Doug asked Rob back for VII and then VIII I think, so it wouldn’t be out of character for him to ask him back for BtE onwards. Even if he expected a no, it’s nice to ask.

    What I don’t understand is why Doug would ever need to get anything cleared by Rob – what legal reason would he, exactly? Unless he was using characters and/or elements from any of Rob’s solo novels. Surely Doug has free reign to do whatever he wants with the series.

    I can imagine Doug maybe asking Rob about something just to be nice/careful, but I can’t imagine there’s any legal requirement for it.

  258. I’m confused about the “clearing stuff with Rob” thing. For fear of spoilers, I’ll seek an explanation in 3 weeks.

    >Might he not have theoretically have had to clear Mechocracy with Rob too?
    Having seen Mechocracy, I don’t know what you’re implying. I’m guessing that Rob just lets Doug do what he likes with the characters. And Rob gets a cheque.

    If Rob wants to write another novel, that would be a completely separate continuity from the TV shows, as the other novels are. Let’s face it, Rob is never coming back to the show. He’s also said that he doesn’t even watch it (something about watching the honeymoon video of your ex-wife) so I doubt he gives a toss about retcons, frankly.

    >Anyone else notice how Rob suddenly disappeared from Twitter as soon as the XI/XII wagon got rolling?
    Mmmm. Not really. He’s not exactly a prolific tweeter.

  259. Is it Rob or Doug with the false leg?

  260. What’s the thing with Rob again?

  261. Doug asked Rob back for VII and then VIII I think, so it wouldn’t be out of character for him to ask him back for BtE onwards. Even if he expected a no, it’s nice to ask.

    What I don’t understand is why Doug would ever need to get anything cleared by Rob – what legal reason would he, exactly? Unless he was using characters and/or elements from any of Rob’s solo novels. Surely Doug has free reign to do whatever he wants with the series.
    I can imagine Doug maybe asking Rob about something just to be nice/careful, but I can’t imagine there’s any legal requirement for it.

    Conversations will have been had at various stages, I’m sure. We can guess that Rob has basically said ‘go for it’ in regards to Doug continuing the show and doing whatever he wants with it, so maybe Doug wouldn’t nee to talk to him about the details of Skipper or any other episode. Steven Moffat needed to talk to Russell T Davies when he wanted to use any aliens he created (e,g. the Ood), and of course we all know the Terry Nation estate setup with the Daleks.

    As co-creator of the property, Rob technically could have tried to block any more series’ being made. Though thankfully it doesn’t seem to have been that rough a situation. After all, the show, continuing, benefits Rob in a lot of ways, so it would be insanity to take issue.

  262. >What’s the thing with Rob again?

    You’re going to have to narrow this down.

  263. What’s the thing with Rob again?

    He’s fat

  264. He was Martin Kemp’s phone-a-friend on ‘Celebrity Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?’

  265. He was Martin Kemp’s phone-a-friend on ‘Celebrity Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?’

    I’m quite credulous. Is that true?

  266. And, yes, I think it was ‘fat’ I was thinking of although I remember reading about a missing leg and wondering if it was a fat person disbetic amputation sort of thing.

  267. I’d quite literally turned Rob Grant and Doug Naylor into a single entity using just my brain and poor powers of retention.

  268. There isn’t much to be said that hasn’t been covered, other than:

    That was literally Vulva’s costume, the actual one. I suspect a result of wardrobe raiding target than deliberate homage.

    Lister sprinkled the moon dust on his curry to make it spicier.

    There a sign saying “No Morning” in the prison cell, for some reason.

    The camera wobbled in that scene.

    Evil Rimmer had an “R” on his face and it’s heavily implied he will return.

    Doug needs to get some new writers in.

    Wait, I think that last one was mentioned previously…

  269. Okay, I *really* enjoyed that, best of the series so far for me. Could easily fit in series IV or V.

    Good/interesting things:
    The reversing gag.
    That canteen had a touch of Milliways about it, didn’t it?
    The odd lump on Kryten’s head.
    The nice spin on the Space Corps Directive gag.
    *Goes back and reads everyone else’s comments*
    Oh. It appears I’m in a minority. :/

    I’m absolutely happy to be with you in the minority. Just watched it on download from SKY and it’s the one I’ve laughed loudest and most at so far this series. Like Siliconia it was an allegorical comment on modern society and I really got it.

  270. G&T Admin

    There a sign saying “No Morning” in the prison cell, for some reason.

    I think that says “No Moaning”, but I thought it was “Morning” at first too.

  271. Maybe it is ‘Morning’ and it’s another joke about jobs being done by the wrong people. The sign-writer’s incompetent but pointing out the mistake would be criticising.

    And yes Rob Grant really was Martin Kemp’s phone-a-friend. They used to live next door to each other.

  272. thought: does Lister start being so hostile towards the waitress in the diner because the meal she served him came with sprouts? after all, we know damn well that sprouts make him chuck.

  273. >Evil Rimmer had an “R” on his face and it’s heavily implied he will return.

    I really don’t think it’s intended this way. It’s just the way of saying “We’ll reset Rimmer back to his default setting at the end of this episode”.

  274. Doug asked Rob back for VII and then VIII I think, so it wouldn’t be out of character for him to ask him back for BtE onwards. Even if he expected a no, it’s nice to ask.

    What I don’t understand is why Doug would ever need to get anything cleared by Rob – what legal reason would he, exactly? Unless he was using characters and/or elements from any of Rob’s solo novels. Surely Doug has free reign to do whatever he wants with the series.
    I can imagine Doug maybe asking Rob about something just to be nice/careful, but I can’t imagine there’s any legal requirement for it.
    Conversations will have been had at various stages, I’m sure. We can guess that Rob has basically said ‘go for it’ in regards to Doug continuing the show and doing whatever he wants with it, so maybe Doug wouldn’t nee to talk to him about the details of Skipper or any other episode. Steven Moffat needed to talk to Russell T Davies when he wanted to use any aliens he created (e,g. the Ood), and of course we all know the Terry Nation estate setup with the Daleks.
    As co-creator of the property, Rob technically could have tried to block any more series’ being made. Though thankfully it doesn’t seem to have been that rough a situation. After all, the show, continuing, benefits Rob in a lot of ways, so it would be insanity to take issue.

    Do we know how the partnership break up worked out? i know robert llewellyn said on one of the DVDs that there were alot of lawyers back and forth at GNP.

    Back in 2013 Rob replied to someone on twitter suggesting he was thinking about another Red Dwarf novel but i guess he changed his mind?

    https://twitter.com/realrobgrant/status/300610900161863680

    Well unless Doug put a stop to it? *shrug*

  275. I think Doug mentioned Rob might still be interested in doing a novel at Dimension Jump 2015, but don’t quote me on that.

  276. Rob & Doug have been friendly again for a long time now. Rob understandably still finds the idea of Red Dwarf existing without him slightly difficult to process, but there is zero scandal to it. He just doesn’t want to bathe in the same river twice (or particularly be party to Doug’s solo version existing). Both of them still have options on Dwarf novels.

    Lest this get out of hand, there is no ill feeling in the Grant Naylor camp and there hasn’t been for a very long time.

  277. There a sign saying “No Morning” in the prison cell, for some reason.

    I think that says “No Moaning”, but I thought it was “Morning” at first too.

    Arthur Bostrom put it there.

  278. Oh, I thought I ought to mention, I really liked Kryten’s line to Rimmer; “But sir, you’ll have nothing to remain dead for!”

  279. I noticed that the metal dome things which somehow hold their hands in place in the crit extractor room weren’t level on each side and I can never unsee that but I doubt that’ll be much of a problem given the number of times I don’t plan on watching Timewave in the future.

  280. I watched it again.

    It’s still shit.

    I won’t be watching it again.

  281. The “Spit on the wrist” line has a strong claim as the worst gag in the history of the programme.

    I was watching the episode and my housemate walked in as that line plopped out of Rimmer’s mouth. Housemate: “Christ, that joke was awful.”

  282. I want a commentary on the DVD just so Doug can explain that line.

  283. Clip ‘er tits
    Kittenies
    Quilted Rhys
    Kill to ice
    Kipper kiss
    Glitter is
    Grit iris

  284. Does anyone know if all the spelling mistakes in the Timewave review on Gazpacho-soup.com are a deliberate homage to the episode?

  285. I can forgive the ‘spit on her wrist’ gag cause I relate to it.

  286. Reading the gazpacho review made me realise that they were going for psychedelia rather than homosexuality. This is backed up by Cat’s line about an acid trip. I can now appreciate what they were going for a bit more, but holy shit how badly did they fuck it up that I didn’t even realise it was supposed to be psychedelic until reading a review three days later?

    They also bring up an interesting point that perhaps if Johnny Vegas had been playing Ziggy it would have been a little better. I also would have preferred another actor as Tutting Man, but he seems to actually be quite popular so don’t listen to me

  287. Also the guy who tags along with Ziggy is wearing a Sgt. Pepper’s-esque outfit

  288. I liked it. It irks me more than the previous two, but (on the whole) I think it works.

    Droopy titties jokes (and abrupt endings aside) this episode delivers: it’s got some good gags, character development and, underneath, whether we liked it or not – it has most people (online) criticising. In a way, Doug can’t lose – by doing this episode on crit – he wins – because all our criticism plays into his hands. I can’t help feeling he’s trolling us: amp it up to full, and see how people react.

    Put some tasteless jokes in, do the things that drive Dwarfers crazy, and sit back and watch.

    I propose that Doug put in these `potentially offensive things’ to see how we’d all react: because in our eyes, we see it in our own individual ways: Ziggy (to me) was annoying, not cause he’s playing as gay (as I feel many are seeing it), just because he’s irritating, and if we put what we see as a stereotype before us, it is up to us too what we see.

    Although, I can see more positives than negatives in this episode – I fear this episode is being seen as a trope and is being used as humour at it’s most uncomfortable.

  289. If the whole thing was that meta then it’s a genuinely impressive piece of television. I just have a hard time believing that. Maybe it’ll be discussed on the DVD.

  290. The problem with Ziggy is, that although presumably unintentional, he is an exact image of a homophobe’s idea of a gay man. That’s the crux of the issue. Taken simply as that the episode is implying that flamboyant gay men need knocking down a peg or two.

    Whilst I doubt that is Doug’s view or was his intention, I don’t think any amount of mental gymnastics can take away the fact that a lot of us had identical reservations about that character. I *liked* the episode, I thought it was perilously close to greatness, but it’s a giant elephant in the middle of the room.

    It would have been better if everyone on the ship had been *badly dressed*, not in a Duane Dibbley way but subtly awful. Comic Sans on the “Crit Cop” badge, everyone wearing Crocs, backwards baseball caps, misspelt tattoos, clothes the wrong size, shaving cuts, “I’m With Stupid” T-shirts, novelty aprons… and their behaviour was obliviously mundane. No flamboyance – for the idea of the episode to make sense the lack of criticism needs to have been seen to *drain* them of value and purpose, making everyone monuments to mediocrity. The way they executed it made it as though everybody had been empowered, even though the Vegas character pretty much outright states that they all secretly hate it. Doing that, plus rewriting about half a dozen lines, would have solved every single problem.

  291. I also mentally rewrote the ending upon rewatching it last night. It wraps up the plot, brings the theme of the episode back around and ends on what I modestly think is a decent chuckle. After Ziggy presents the picture, this should have happened:

    ——–

    ZIGGY: So…? Whaddya think? Don’t you absolutely *love* it?

    QUICKLY CUT AROUND TO EVERY CHARACTER FROZEN IN DIPLOMACY AS TO QUITE WHAT TO SAY. LISTER FINALLY BREAKS THE SILENCE.

    LISTER: Well–

    HARD CUT TO END CREDITS.

  292. A faulty lamp is not fit for purpose, no matter how many lampshades you stick on it.

  293. >LISTER: Well–

    This would work better, for sure. And would actually make sense of the theory that Doug was trolling us. A *deliberately* abrupt ending after all the hoo-ha of XI’s.

  294. The problem with Ziggy is, that although presumably unintentional, he is an exact image of a homophobe’s idea of a gay man.

    I’ve been trying to find the right words for it, and this sums it up perfectly.

    I also like the “well” ending a lot.

  295. I agree, nice work Darrell.

    Has Red Dwarf ever had an on-screen LGBTQ+ character, ever? I mean someone whose sexuality was confirmed rather than us speculating over, I dunno, Herring’s preferences or Woman In Café With Eclair’s bisexual tendencies.

  296. No. I don’t think homosexuality was even *mentioned* in I-VI. Duct Soup then featured a conversation about “Bent Bob” which confirmed that not depicting non-hetero characters was probably a good thing, lest the show fall on its arse in a major way.

  297. I was a confused, impressionable, anxious 15 year old homosexual when ‘Bent Bob’ happened and that was the point at which I became disillusioned with the programme I’d previously loved. Thanks Doug! And it’s not as though series VII made up for the disappointment with otherwise outstanding plots, characterisation etc.

  298. Well Holly’s trans and Bongo’s bi and Low Rimmer is… Whatever he is but, y’know, punchlines…

  299. Herman Goering is a drug crazed transvestite but at least we could have gone dancing

  300. If it’s a meta attempt at making an episode for people to criticise, then Timewave did its job (and I almost feel that way with the titties line being deliberately shocking), but it doesn’t make me like the episode any more, it makes me want to tell writers to stop doing things like this. Deliberately bad is still bad

  301. Well Duct soup was the first episode to use the word “Gay”.

    Even with holly changing gender they didn’t make a big deal out of it, they didn’t really acknowledge any sexuality with it.

    Now days… i ain’t sure, i think Doug would throw in alot of women jokes like holly on her period :P.

  302. I don’t think Bongo is specifically bi. He’s just in love with Ace, cos he’s amazing.

    (Although for someone *so* amazing, he has a very small group of people waving him off as he leaves his own dimension)

  303. Now days… i ain’t sure, i think Doug would throw in alot of women jokes like holly on her period :P.

    Your strange habit of inventing things you think Doug would do and then getting angry about it is getting into some grim territory now.

  304. Your strange habit of inventing things you think Doug would do and then getting angry about it is getting into some grim territory now.

    You are right, my bad, Dougs never done a period joke :)

  305. Well, I went back and finished it, if only to see what “spit on her wrist” was all about.

    I wish that, instead of coming across a community that banned criticism, they’d come across one where where “free speech” was militaristically protected, resulting in mass fearmongering and open hatred.

  306. I don’t think Bongo is specifically bi. He’s just in love with Ace, cos he’s amazing.

    He may never want to sleep with any other man but that would make him specifically bi. ;)

  307. They already went to America in Twentica, robin

  308. >He may never want to sleep with any other man but that would make him specifically bi. ;)

    At the risk of derailing this thread about the sexual orientation of a minor character from an episode from 27 years ago, I would say it’s a bit like Bob in RTD’s Bob and Rose. But I don’t have a particularly strong opinion on it and think we’ve already analysed it far more than Rob and Doug ever did, so not going to debate it. :-)

  309. Completely forgot about Rimmer being gang-raped in prison by a pack of bigger men! And Cat being propositioned by a man with a big moustache! Tons of positive exposure for ‘the community’ after all. Phew!

  310. And none of those men were written as specifically camp so WELL DONE DOUG for such enlightened, unstereotypical portrayals.

  311. In a way, Doug can’t lose – by doing this episode on crit – he wins – because all our criticism plays into his hands. I can’t help feeling he’s trolling us: amp it up to full, and see how people react.
    Put some tasteless jokes in, do the things that drive Dwarfers crazy, and sit back and watch.
    I propose that Doug put in these `potentially offensive things’ to see how we’d all react..

    That might be a fair way of looking at it had it not been for the numerous 1970’s era jokes at the expense of women and other groups that have already appeared in Dave era Dwarf.

    I think we just have the problem of an aging sense of humour on the head writer. Needs some input from a new perspective.

  312. I think we just have the problem of an aging sense of humour on the head writer. Needs some input from a new perspective.

    I think there’s a really good discussion to be had here. For me, S11 and 12 have been strong is in the ideas they want to explore and the visuals (has Dwarf ever looked so good?) Where it falls down, and ultimately these are no little things, is the way these ideas explored through the plots, the structure and pacing, and I’m sorry to say the humour. The jokes at times feel very very tired.

    I don’t want to say ‘Doug doesn’t know how to write Dwarf anymore’ because I don’t think I fairly have the right to make such a large sweeping statement. And ultimately it is half his child, as it were. But I do think it would benefit Doug and the show to get some fresh perspective – someone who is perhaps a little harsher than the script editor/s he has now. Look at Partridge after Steve Coogan brought in the Gibbons brothers. Worked wonders for the character.

  313. I can’t help feeling he’s trolling us: amp it up to full, and see how people react.

    “Oh hey, turns out if I make a shit episode, people think it’s shit!”

  314. I agree, nice work Darrell.

    Has Red Dwarf ever had an on-screen LGBTQ+ character, ever? I mean someone whose sexuality was confirmed rather than us speculating over, I dunno, Herring’s preferences or Woman In Café With Eclair’s bisexual tendencies.

    Sam Murray in Holoship. In the deleted funeral scene from ‘The End’ Lister mentions that Sam was in a relationship with Deck Sergeant Rick Thesen before Rimmer pointed out that they’d actually split up.

  315. Ah! To be fair, Sam Murray was a pretty well-written, interestingly fleshed-out character.

  316. The movers and the shakers? A group of removal men and people suffering from Parkinson’s disease?

  317. The number of comments on this episode proves it was a success! The more I think about Timewave the happier I am with it. Maybe because I’m choosing to believe Doug was deliberately taking the piss, in a lighthearted way, rather than setting out to make any serious statement.

    The couple in Samsara would have been a good place to use an LGBT pairing, if Doug had so chosen.

  318. The couple in Samsara would have been a good place to use an LGBT pairing, if Doug had so chosen.

    Er, not so sure about that. Remember that the main plot point was that they were being “immoral”. Even if they had still been an adulterous couple, plenty of people would have read the situation as the homosexuality as being “immoral”, rather than the adultery.

  319. Agree that the Samsara couple would NOT have been a good place to start painting a glorious rainbow of inclusivity (nothing says LGBT like ‘covert!’) but it’s all ok because I just remembered a wax version of Noël Coward appeared in Red Dwarf 26 years ago and he was perfectly nice so that’s that box ticked.

  320. The couple in Samsara would have been a good place to use an LGBT pairing, if Doug had so chosen.

    Er, not so sure about that. Remember that the main plot point was that they were being “immoral”. Even if they had still been an adulterous couple, plenty of people would have read the situation as the homosexuality as being “immoral”, rather than the adultery.

    Yeah you’re right there, I wasn’t really thinking of it like that….:o though it would have been an easy way of giving us gay characters without it feeling shoehorned in, i.e. most other guest characters’ sexualities aren’t really relevant so wouldn’t even need to be mentioned, whereas if you show a couple it’s a nice opportunity to do it. Though YES you’re right.

  321. I’ve liked every new episode of Red Dwarf I’ve ever seen. I like Dear Dave and Can of Worms, and Samsara is my second favorite of Series XI. But I have extremely mixed feelings about Timewave, and they’re leaning towards negative. I’m really hoping I like it better on second viewing when I’m not so utterly thrown off by how broad and bizarre it is, but I’m afraid to rewatch it and test that theory. Meanwhile, I rewatched Cured and Siliconia three times in the 24 hours after they came out.

    Regardless, I really prefer my Red Dwarf to be grounded and introspective. I probably wasn’t going to like an overly broad and cartoony affair like this even if it wasn’t so messy.

    I felt extremely uncomfortable watching Ziggy. Regardless of what the actual intent was, it just felt like they were maligning a gay stereotype for being so campy.

  322. Is it just me or did this episode look especially cheap compared to the last two? Maybe it’s just the iffy greenscreen of the opening leaving a bad taste in my mouth, but I feel like this episode was visually a huge step down from Siliconia – and most of these latest two series in general.

    God, can I just have Mechocracy already? I’m fucking depressed and usually new Dwarf is the highlight of my week, but it just left me cold this time.

  323. The episode actually looks pretty good in screencaps, minus the shite compositing on the moon

  324. Critisize is such a great tune to open with!

  325. I’ve rewatched it again and for the first ten minutes I’m thinking ‘this is okay, not great, but okay.’ After that I mainly think ‘that’s a shame.’ I’m excited to see the rest of the series but not as excited as I was for BTE or X.

  326. I just want a confirmation that we’re getting Series XIII & XIV. Being disappointed by Timewave has just reminded me how little Red Dwarf we have left. By far, the greatest part of watching Series XI for me was just knowing that we had more to come next Fall, that we weren’t going to have to wait three or four years for more episodes.

    If all goes perfectly, we’ll have another back-to-back production starting in winter 2018 with new episodes in 2019 and 2020. But I have to say, I kind of have a hard time imagining much more past a potential Series XIV.

    Maybe that’s just because of how utterly fucking ludicrous the idea of a fourteenth series of Red Dwarf existing is to me. I’m only just now at the point where Series X doesn’t feel “new” to me anymore.

    I’m excited to see the rest of the series but not as excited as I was for BTE or X.

    To be fair, those were the BIG return of Red Dwarf. First with new content at all, and then with a proper six episode series in front of an audience. With Series XII, not only is not a big return but we’ve literally just had another series the previous year.

  327. This is a good point, the reason I felt such excitement at the start of the Dave era is because of how unimaginable the show’s return was in the mid 2000s. If you’d have told me ten years ago that there would be 21 new episodes I would have ‘done a Vegas’.

  328. What’s baffling about Ziggy, as with Taiwan Tony before him…is that nobody at any stage of the production seems to have suggested that they were maybe getting into slightly dodgy territory.

  329. I just want a confirmation that we’re getting Series XIII & XIV.

    We are definitely getting a XIII, they don’t seem to be hiding it, but I’d be amazed if they do another double block. Personally I want Doug, Andrew & Richard to really have the time to polish and hone half a dozen scripts that they’re all *really* happy with rather than worrying how far down the list they are. That’s how you end up with easily fixable misfires like Samsara and Timewave.

  330. What’s baffling about Ziggy, as with Taiwan Tony before him…is that nobody at any stage of the production seems to have suggested that they were maybe getting into slightly dodgy territory.

    I’m rather uneducated about the roles of producers/directors etc, so happy to be corrected, but doesn’t Doug occupy all the ‘executive’ seats in the production by himself? I get the impression that there’s effectively no-one there with enough seniority to say “hang on, not sure this is a good idea”.

  331. “Yeah but we’ve already bought the paper lantern so IT’S STAYING IN THE SCRIPT.”

  332. Would be neat if Naylor spent this week retweeting criticism.

  333. That was another episode that is frustrating because it is SO CLOSE to being amazing.

    The good:
    -The effects, sets, direction just screamed series II & III.
    -The premise is one I was worried about, but actually works well.
    -Guest stars were effective
    -The idea of Rimmer being used to show why criticism can be valuable is a perfect Dwarf concept.

    The bad:
    -Wtf Cat what are you saying.
    -Things feel unpolished. The plotline with Rimmer picking up the jar of sand didn’t go anywhere and the ending is another one that feels abrupt. It’s fair to assume that the ship went back to the 24th century, but you’d think there would have at least been a line about if they should go back with them.

    I think with another edit pass this would be an absolutely classic.

  334. Not a fan of the dave era at all and i used to be really heart broken about not enjoying it but i am just starting to blank them from my mind now.

    I just wish they were of the quality of the first 6 seasons rather then what feels like a mix up of 1-6 and series 8.

    An interesting idea with good comedy potential and some clever bits here and there – Series 1-6

    Camp and overexaggerated characters with some predicable jokes – Series 8

  335. I was watching the Cat titties bit and wondering if any of the actors are particularly precious about their characters, make suggestions, steer Doug away from stuff they feel is controversially out of character etc. Any ideas?

  336. Saying “titties” was always gonna get a big laugh from the audience and the show is a comedy.

  337. You’ve just bemoaned Dave Dwarf having jokes like VIII’s, then it seems like you’ve defended one of its worst culprits?
    Doug probably had that thought process. “Titties” equals guaranteed laughter. It’s a comedy show.
    But.
    It’s a character comedy. If David Brent made jokes out of character (good ones) – he wouldn’t be David Brent. Same for Cat. The titties line just didn’t work for me. Whereas I enjoyed his asshole immensely.

  338. You’ve just bemoaned Dave Dwarf having jokes like VIII’s, then it seems like you’ve defended one of its worst culprits?

    No i ain’t defending it at all, but that may be Doug and the casts frame of mind when it comes to trying to get a big reaction from the audience.

  339. Has anyone in this forum ever touched Chris Barrie?

  340. Either! Mainly I was thinking physically but if you’ve touched his heart I’d like to hear about that too.

    I only ask because it struck me when rewatching Legion as an antidote to Timewave that he seems very unexcited about his new physical presence and that got me thinking about manhandling Chris Barrie and then my thoughts were all over the place.

  341. it just registered with me that for the entire “Rimmer’s Inner Critic Scene”, ziggy doesn’t actually say, do, or react to anything until after the inner critic is dead. are we meant to believe ziggy just sort of stood and watched this entire scene unfold without questioning a thing?

  342. Listen mate, don’t ruin one of the only good scenes in the episode by suggesting that one of the worst characters in the entire history of the show should feature more heavily in it.
    Tbh I’d prefer if the Cat was left out of Rimmer’s big speech in Siliconia, the jokes sort of diluted the effect of it

  343. I do sincerely hope Macaquecracy is better than Timewave.

  344. We’ll always have Parrots.

  345. I might have been thinking of Macawcracy.

    Still a good joke.

  346. I’ve been searching TOS for a desktop background for this week. We’ve really not got many promotional photos from Mechocracy, have we? One, maybe two? There’s a boring one of Rimmer and Kryten talking in the bunkroom from ‘Still to Come’, and is the Cat mirror one off those four they put on Twitter one day from Mechocracy? I am glad we’ve got an episode where they’ve spoiled almost nothing, though.

  347. Can’t believe that in all the discussion of the apparent homophobia of this episode, nobody’s brought up the “I am a fruit” song. I don’t think I can give Doug the benefit of the doubt on that one.

  348. Fair enough. I don’t buy the “context” excuse. The context was deliberately written by a writer in order to set up “I am a fruit”.

  349. Although it’s quite fun to imagine that when the deadline came, Doug just wrote “I am a fruit”, saluted, and passed out.

  350. Why is it showing up everywhere under its old title?

    Also, a timewave is what swept in the Enconium, but if they’d not changed the title, would a time wave have washed it up?

  351. I’ve seen this episode mentioned as the only one outside of VI-VII not to feature Red Dwarf itself. Am I forgetting something, or does Back to Reality also not feature the ship?

  352. …Oh.

    Well it’s still a suitably rare occurence to be worth flagging up. (Even Back to Earth Part Two has footage on board the ship, so it’s definitely unprecedented in the Dave era.)

  353. I’ve seen this episode mentioned as the only one outside of VI-VII not to feature Red Dwarf itself. Am I forgetting something, or does Back to Reality also not feature the ship?

    You are forgetting something. When Lister looks into the viewing machine and sees the new crew playing the ‘game’ in full ’90s rock-star action-movie mode, we see the shot of Starbug taking off from the exploding Red Dwarf landing bay and then blasting through the closed doors on the outside of Red Dwarf.

  354. In fairness I wouldn’t have remembered either if I hadn’t just rewatched Back To Reality earlier this evening (the first time I ever watched it with my daughter – the confused/amazed look on her face when that ‘Game Over’ came up was great to see).

  355. I just wondered why that moment had no effect on me when I first saw it. And then I realized I’d already read about it in The Official Companion, the Programme Guide and read the fucking script in Primordial Soup.

    I mean, what a twat. That’s got to the best shock this side of Out of Time (and I knew to expect that one too from people at school spoiling it while I was still watching Series 1).

  356. Series V was the first one I watched as it aired, so it was a total surprise for me (and as a kid I genuinely didn’t know whether it was ending the show for good, as it was the last of the series). In retrospect that seems a bit naive, but then other shows have gone out with similar ‘it was all a dream’ twists.

  357. alt right am dram or spitonawristical correctness gone mad?

  358. Let’s Stop Talking About Timewave (on Any Platform)

  359. So you want to ban any further criticism of Timewave?

  360. No I just want to forget it ever happened

  361. I’ve just looked at Jamie Chapman’s IMDB page and he appeared in an episode of “Coming of Age” in the role of ‘Mr. Dick Splash’.

    Astonishing as it might seem, Timewave ISN’T the worst thing on his CV.

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