XII Certificated

Rather alarmingly, there are just five days to go until Red Dwarf XII is released on DVD and Bluray. Pre-orders could start arriving as early as this weekend, and it’s been less than a week since the covers were officially unveiled on TOS. These included the intriguing detail that we’d be seeing over 140 minutes of extras on the discs, but we’re not yet sure exactly what they are. Thankfully, the long-held tradition of details being released as a by-product of the UK’s home video classification laws has continued – Red Dwarf XII and its extras are now listed on the BBFC website.

As indicated by TOS’s cover images, the set will be a 12 certificate, with the first four episodes given this rating, and the last two lowered to PG. I’m always amused to see the content of Dwarf episodes broken down in this way. Apparently, the chanting of the word “MILF” constitutes “moderate innuendo”, and Mechocracy got its rating due to an archive still of Kryten raising his middle finger. Those who have seen Skipper already will know which bits are referred to by the tags “mild bad language, comic threat and infrequent mild sex references”, and it’s interesting that this is one of the lower-rated episodes of the series – those moments might have caused a much higher certificate in the 80s and 90s.

But anyway, the real meat of the matter is the details on the extras. These are split in to two packages, marked Disc 1 and Disc 2, but they’ve surely been labelled the wrong way round – according to this, the first disc will contain 113m 57s of extras in addition to the episodes, while the second disc will just have 33m 39s of extras and nothing else. Either way, let’s take a look at what we’re getting in the larger of the two portions:

00:55:50:23
RED DWARF XII [THE 28 YEARS LATER AFFAIR: THE MAKING OF RED DWARF XII]
00:08:04:05
RED DWARF XII [DELETED SCENES]
00:05:27:05
RED DWARF XII [SMEG UPS]
00:17:37:05
RED DWARF XII [SPEED OF DARK MASTER]
00:23:07:06
RED DWARF XII [LIGHTING RED DWARF THEN AND NOW]
00:03:50:06
RED DWARF XII [A FONT TO THE SENSES]

First of all – hooray, there’s an individual title for the main behind the scenes feature again! But boo, it’s only 55 minutes long, a mere three minutes longer than the XI doc, which felt far too short. Meanwhile, the deleted scenes are even more measly than they were last time – six minutes shorter, when we were rather hoping that some of the stuff that was omitted from the XI release might turn up here. The two Smeg Ups features are of near identical length, which suggests we’re in for another tightly-cut package.

However, on the plus side, look at those extra features! “Speed of Dark Master” at 17:37?  23 minutes worth of “Lighting Red Dwarf Then And Now”? And is “A Font To The Senses” three minutes and 50 seconds on fonts? I do hope so. It seems like we’re getting some supplementary extra features alongside the main documentary this time, which will hopefully fill some of the gaps and boost the overall package to the same comprehensive quality we came to expect after the first ten series releases. There’s even more on the other disc:

00:17:13:00
RED DWARF XII [NEW MODEL ARMY]
00:05:54:04
RED DWARF XII [FLYING BY WIREFRAME]
00:05:25:06
RED DWARF XII [IN SPACE THEY CAN HEAR YOU SCREAM]
00:05:06:10
RED DWARF XII [THE SANDS OF STUNTBUG]

These lot all seem to be focussed on special-effects, but the fact that they’ve all got individual titles leads me to hope that they’re more substantial than just the raw footage we saw on the XI release, again helping to make up for the main doc’s shorter running time. This is all a lot more than I was realistically expecting, and it’s certainly made next Monday’s release a lot more exciting.

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91 Responses to XII Certificated

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  1. It’s clear how much the Series I-VIII releases have spoiled us, when we react to a comedy DVD having over 2 hours of extras with “It’s a shame the behind the scenes documentary is only 1 hour long” and “What? No commentaries OR Isolated Music Cues?”.

    Here’s hoping they bring back the best recurring special feature of the classic noughties Dwarf DVD releases: the Weblink.

  2. I think there’s been some suggestion from people who were at the recordings that there’s very little that was cut out. I’m pretty sure that apart from the extended ending to Siliconia – which I REALLY, REALLY hope is on here – there were only one or two small lines from Cat that got cut from that episode.

    Was it not mentioned that John Pomphrey has been interviewed for the XII DVD? Presumably that’s part of the lighting featurette.

  3. Nanarchy got a PG. An episode with a clip of Nanarchy gets a 12 because of the clip from the episode rated PG.

    I’m surprised a certain shot from Skipper didn’t bump it up to a 12. I’m surprised the innuendo of the vibrator was allowed through as a PG for M-Corp.

  4. Nanarchy got a PG. An episode with a clip of Nanarchy gets a 12 because of the clip from the episode rated PG.

    I presume there’s been some change in guidelines in the two decades between Nanarchy being certified PG and now. It might even just be down to different people looking at the two different episodes when certifying them.

  5. if that 8 minutes of Deleted Scenes doesn’t include the extended ending to Siliconia, i’m going to break a mug.

    also god, 8 minutes is the shortest the deleted scenes have ever been, isn’t it? that’s like just over a minute of deleted scenes for each episode. unless some episodes don’t have deleted scenes at all

  6. If there’s nothing at all on models, lighting, screaming and speed in the documentary then that should allow for it being a tad shorter than ideal, but again it’s still a touch disappointing (see also: smeg ups and deleted scenes). But the overall length of the extras in general is still exceptional in 2017 and it really feels like the modern day equivalent of the earlier releases: those were way above and beyond the standard sitcom DVD of the day, and these are way above and beyond the standard sitcom DVD of today.

  7. if that 8 minutes of Deleted Scenes doesn’t include the extended ending to Siliconia, i’m going to break a mug.

    also god, 8 minutes is the shortest the deleted scenes have ever been, isn’t it? that’s like just over a minute of deleted scenes for each episode. unless some episodes don’t have deleted scenes at all

    Apart from the Siliconia ending, no-one has really mentioned any obviously missing scenes this time round, For XI, quite a few made references to the cut saxophone scene or others, but not so much for XII.

    From Cured, literally all I can think of that wasn’t in the episode itself was the Gerald the Giraffe stuff that made it into Officer Rimmer, and an “…and then I got off the bus!”-type gag that probably lasted much less than a minute. Maybe there really aren’t that many scenes that didn’t make the cut.

  8. Wow. If these are all proper little talking head type things they could be really interesting and we could have a real wealth of great stuff on our hands. As much as I love raw FX and isolated music cues and whatnot, I much prefer hearing the people behind these things talk about them.

    I do wonder what the DVD to Blu Ray sales ratio is on the Dwarf releases. Given the niche, nerdier market I’d expect the Blu Rays to do better but a lot of people still don’t see the point in Blu Rays so who knows.

  9. Where’s the most likely place to deliver a copy by Saturday, by the way?

  10. Grrrrrreat! :D

    We still need commentaries…….somehow!! Please for X, XI and XII.

    I also want commentary for the Movie, even though it hasn’t been made. Thanks muchly.

  11. Commentaries were an absolute highlight of 1-BTE and are sorely missed.

  12. Yeah. Hoped we might get a commentary on XII, seeing as there’s been some time since the last release. Maybe. I don’t know.

  13. but a lot of people still don’t see the point in Blu Rays so who knows.

    A lot of people would happily watch a 140p video with a bitrate in the double-digit kbps horrifically stretched into the wrong aspect ratio while sitting two feet from a 70 inch TV and never even notice anything wrong with the picture.

    We call these people oblivious cunts.

    Frankly almost every single HDTV I’ve ever seen in the wild has been incorrectly set up and is displaying an SD pictured crushed into a wider aspect ratio than the already 16:9 TV. Is it really that fucking hard set up a TV to display the picture even remotely correctly? And more importantly, how does NOBODY notice that everything is the wrong shape?

  14. We call these people oblivious cunts.

    This is G&T, we call all people that.

  15. From Cured, literally all I can think of that wasn’t in the episode itself was the Gerald the Giraffe stuff that made it into Officer Rimmer, and an “…and then I got off the bus!”-type gag that probably lasted much less than a minute. Maybe there really aren’t that many scenes that didn’t make the cut.

    Wasn’t the original cut of Cured 42 minutes?

  16. Where’s the most likely place to deliver a copy by Saturday, by the way?

    Ordered mine from Zoom and I got an email yesterday saying it had been dispatched so here’s hoping I’ll be getting it later today which would be before Skipper even officially airs! 🤞

  17. Ah lovely, thanks. 10% discount for signing up to their mailing list and using money I didn’t realise I had in my PayPal account meant it only really cost me a fiver too!

  18. Ah lovely, thanks. 10% discount for signing up to their mailing list and using money I didn’t realise I had in my PayPal account meant it only really cost me a fiver too!

    No problem. I used Zoom last year for the XI DVD and got the 10% discount for signing up to their mailing list and got the same discount this year by using a different email address! 🙊

  19. The DVD has arrived! 😁😁😁

  20. Ooh.

  21. G&T Admin

    …said the woman with the invisible appendectomy scar.

  22. Mine didn’t ship today and I’m away from Sunday to Thursday, so it’s looking increasingly likely I won’t be watching any of these extras for a week.

  23. Mine has arrived from Zoom too. Deleted scenes are interesting. Watching the doc now.

  24. Can you say what the deleted scenes are, or at least which eps they’re from?

  25. Every episode is represented. Mechocracy was barely anything. Siliconia ending and an additional scene with a certain character from Skipper (which appears to be filmed after the audience recording) are the most interesting.

  26. You have the Series XII DVD before Skipper has even broadcast? This is Primordial Soup all over again!

  27. Very glad that Skipper additional scene never got used! Pretty sure we weren’t shown that on the recording night?

  28. I think it might have worked after the end credits like on The Beginning.

  29. The Certain Character From Skipper wasn’t at the audience recording, so it’s presumably a pre-record.

  30. The episode has aired now so fuck it. The scene is with Mr Rat. His main scene was filmed in front of the audience.

  31. One of the shots from the opening titles of Skipper are wrong. They replaced the unused shot from Timewave with another shot of Starbug hitting the Timewave. Every other episode is intact as per UKTV Play. I was watching the extras when it aired so I don’t know if the broadcast version of Skipper was different to the UKTV Play version.

  32. Not going to lie, I’m annoyed that Zoom have sent the DVDs out so early. Not on at all.

  33. Zoom do that regularly with a lot of DVDs and BRs.

  34. Sometimes a little early is all right but pre-broadcast is just lunacy. Though Zoom probably don’t know/give a shit about such things.

  35. This isn’t a recent thing. Dr Who Series 7B was sent out pre-broadcast too and they had to bribe people to keep schtum about “The Name of the Doctor”.

  36. Man I’m so glad no one (I saw) spoiled NotD. It wasn’t a very good episode, but that cliffhanger was fucking incredible to witness live and unspoiled.

    But yes, sending out DVDs, games, books, even electronics early is just something companies keep doing. There was a big game recently where pretty much everyone and their gran got it early, but nobody was allowed to stream it online or they’d get DMCA’d, obviously. I think it was the Crash Bandicoot remaster, about a fortnight early.

  37. Steve Coogan is behind the scenes in the making of documentary.

  38. Zoom have broken an embargo there. Release dates are there for reasons additional to footage release embargoes too – if they are getting specifically known for delivering discs early that’s a direct breach of trading competition rules and they could have their distribution licences terminated.

    I would hope GNP will be following this up.

  39. Zoom has been like this for literally years, and with far more high-profile releases than Red Dwarf. Usually you can rely on getting a new release from them on the Friday or Saturday before the Monday street date, as long as you pre-order reasonably in advance.

    I guess it’s just never been a big enough deal for anyone to chase them about it.

  40. It landing the Saturday before is one thing – that happens with Amazon a lot as well – and that can probably be justified by the seller as being an attempt to ensure that it lands by release day, as Royal Mail have to allow up to three days even for first class.

    But it being delivered on the THURSDAY means that it will have been actually sent out nearly a week early. And that completely takes the piss, especially when you’re talking about a show not yet broadcast (even though it had been on Dave).

  41. It may be technically illegal, but with a show that uploads all its episodes to the internet a week early anyway, does it really matter all that much?

  42. It may be technically illegal, but with a show that uploads all its episodes to the internet a week early anyway, does it really matter all that much?

    The extras aren’t available online. So that’s over two hours of stuff that’s gone out before it’s supposed to.

  43. >It may be technically illegal, but with a show that uploads all its episodes to the internet a week early anyway, does it really matter all that much?

    Yes.

  44. I was hoping for another i-tunes releasing the documentary early cock up. Ian Tunes won’t get 13 quid from me this year! The XII DVD from Amazon is supposed to arrive here on Tuesday but I’m checking the mail every day leading up.

  45. Special features summary on TOS, lads. http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/news/2017/11/17/bonus-package/

    It looks like two actors were completely excised from Timewave? Has that happened before?

    The supplementary production special features – especially the John Pomphrey one – look EXACTLY like the kind of thing you got on the earlier DVDs that were missing from the X & XI ones. Excellent.

  46. Just from the picture, the two Timewave actors remind me of Fry and Laurie on ‘The Not Quite Late Enough Show’.

  47. All this stuff about Zoom sending their stuff out almost a week early, it’s now Friday evening and mine’s not been sent. Looks like I’ll be waiting until next Thursday evening to watch it after all…

  48. The bloke on the left is Tom Bell, who I saw do a very funny standup routine about kids’ paintings in a tiny London pub in 2005, about a week after 7/7, before Stewart Lee did his first ever performance of ’90s Comedian’.

  49. I’ll always feel like these releases are incomplete when they lack commentaries.

  50. I’d love to see someone try a Red Dwarf version of ‘Who Talk’: http://www.fantomfilms.co.uk/whotalk/releases.htm

    Imagine. Not just cast commentaries on X-XII. But potentially Grant Naylor commentaries on I-VI. Mac McDonald commentary for his I and II episodes. Gordon Kennedy on The Last Day. James Buckley on Siliconia.

  51. I’m sure that’s the kind of thing Doug was talking about when he said he was trying to do something for the commentaries… fingers are still crossed…

  52. Speaking of unseen guest actors, this has made me recall a leaked photo of the Starbug cockpit from before Series XI aired that was put out on Twitter by a guest actress. Anyone else remember that image? And did she even end up appearing in the show?

    I have tried digging it up, but no luck so far.

  53. That’s the one. I guess that is not a costume she is wearing then.

  54. A DVD CAME IN THE POST FOR ME THIS MORNING AND IT WAS RED DWARF TWELFTY.
    That’s this evening sorted then. If only my newly married friends weren’t coming up for the afternoon. Bastards.

  55. i do wonder if the original ending to Siliconia was cut out just so they’d actually have a substantial deleted scene to put on the DVD

  56. Was hoping mine might pop up today as well, but sadly not.

  57. Zoom are well naughty for sending out DVDs early like this, and that mustn’t be condoned.

    However… I do often think that publishers play a risky game when they release their TV DVDs so immediately after the last episode is broadcast. I understand the financial pressure to get those discs onto store shelves in good time for Christmas, but in this case there was leeway to leave it an extra week or 2, surely?

    I seem to remember that Gavin & Stacey Series 3 had its DVD officially released days before the last episode debuted on BBC One, which is just bananas. I know, like Red Dwarf, G&S is “just a comedy”, but that episode was the end of the whole story that had been building. It was clear whichever arm of the BBC made that decision just didn’t care that doing that would completely undercut the shared cultural experience of watching the very last episode of a major TV series.

    It’s not nearly as bad a decision as releasing every one of your episodes online a whole week before they go out on telly, obviously, but it’s still bad.

    On a personal level, I find it a lot harder to get excited about DVD releases of things I’ve literally just watched. I need time away from the film/programme, so that when the DVD/Blu-ray comes out, I think “Ooh, I haven’t thought about that in a while!”. As much as I adore Red Dwarf, I don’t want to rewatch Series XII straight away, even if there are extras to watch too; I want to watch/read/play other things, and then come back to Red Dwarf once my appetite has built back up.

    In fact, I wouldn’t even blink if they said that the Series XII DVD wouldn’t be out until spring. Especially if they used the time to improve the special features selection, but not necessarily.

    I know, I know, the easy rebuttal to my argument is “Just wait to buy it then, fool!” and yes, that’s fair, but it’s not the same. If they make me wait a little for the DVD, I’ll get excited when it releases and buy it straight away. If I don’t buy the DVD immediately because it released too quickly, then I’ll probably just buy it some months later as more of an afterthought – “Meh, I guess it’s probably been about enough time”.

  58. Amazon have said they’re only despatching mine on Tuesday, which is bizarre for a pre-order. I’d cancel out of principle but it’s only for Christmas anyway (might as well prolong the series if I can).

  59. That’s this evening sorted then. If only my newly married friends weren’t coming up for the afternoon. Bastards.

    Stick Timewave on when they arrive, they’ll soon leave.

  60. Nobody I know watches broadcast television anymore, so releasing the episodes online just makes sense, but I wish they’d do a simultaneous release/broadcast rather than use it to advertise their online service.
    Are the post-BBC Dwarf series on Netflix?

  61. No, Netflix only has 1-8. In the UK anyway.

  62. Although weirdly the background picture they use when you select the show is a shot from BTE of the quartet and carbug.

  63. Mine came today and I came with it. But not as hard as I did with the Series X DVD. Better than XI but not by much…..

  64. That’s a shame – I think having the newer eps on Netflix would get a lot more people watching, I certainly checked out a lot of stuff I wouldn’t normally when I had a Netflix subscription, it’s a really inviting platform

  65. On a personal level, I find it a lot harder to get excited about DVD releases of things I’ve literally just watched. I need time away from the film/programme, so that when the DVD/Blu-ray comes out, I think “Ooh, I haven’t thought about that in a while!”. As much as I adore Red Dwarf, I don’t want to rewatch Series XII straight away, even if there are extras to watch too; I want to watch/read/play other things, and then come back to Red Dwarf once my appetite has built back up.
    In fact, I wouldn’t even blink if they said that the Series XII DVD wouldn’t be out until spring. Especially if they used the time to improve the special features selection, but not necessarily.

    Yup, same here. I’ll probably order mine in 6 months or so if I remember.

  66. That Siliconia deleted scene was tremendous.
    Nice set of extras about the practical side, although I was hoping there’d be more Doug in the making of. One thing from the model doc that I realised was how much I miss all the Starbug take-offs.

  67. DVD edit fans:

    I’ve seen the DVD edit of middle part of ‘Skipper’. I was curious about how they would bridge the gap between before the adverts and after, since they both featured an audience response that came from silence, but before the adverts we had a lot more time lingering on Holly waiting for the laugh to die down, whereas after the adverts the audience reaction quickly ran over Holly’s line “Morning Arnold”. I assumed that they’d edited the audience reaction as it appeared after the adverts, and that there would be a single take featuring the audience reacting to Holly’s initial appearance, but not suddenly cheering again over his first line.

    What they’ve done, it turns out, is remove Holly’s initial silent response as Rimmer first walked past him (the shot before the advert bumper). Which is a shame, as I rather enjoyed him waiting for the audience to calm down. I hoped we’d have that before “Morning Arnold”. Instead, we see now Holly as Rimmer walks past, and he immediately says “Morning Arnold” over the audience reaction. As I was used to the original version, I find this new rhythm a bit jarring.

    The sense I get is that there wasn’t a single take with both the pause and “Morning Arnold”. The initial reveal was for before the adverts, and Norman said nothing. Then I reckon they did a retake and the audience did their (slightly more muted) ‘yay’ before Norman did his line. That would be my guess, as I can’t think of why they would have cut out the initial pause otherwise, as doing so somewhat ruins the rhythm of the sequence. In particular I think it’s a shame that this means part of Norman’s performance from the episode isn’t on the final DVD.

  68. At least they’re thinking about both versions as equal. That’s more than basically anyone else bothers to do.

  69. It muddies the water a bit though around the idea of “broadcast versions”.

    Not everyone will fixate on such a tiny detail, I grant you. But it does make a difference when you’re losing a chunk of a performance, in this case Norman Lovett riding a wave of audience response. Does it matter? Well it takes me back to the days of Queeg, when Holly says “We are talking jape of the decade” and then has to wait for the audience to stop laughing. I think it does matter to lose something like that from the official release, but obviously they didn’t intend to include it from the beginning, and they essentially filmed separate ‘broadcast’ and ‘DVD release’ versions. I understand, but it still bothers me.

  70. I agree, it’s a shame to lose that moment, especially since a big part of his inclusion in the episode is that reaction to seeing him show up again.

  71. I didn’t like the comment from Doug when he heard Norman wanted to be in it and he had already written 10 of the 12. So immediately offered to put him in. Like what about Hattie?? She should have been present in Skipper one way or another. It’s not like Red Dwarf isn’t her thing anymore. Shocking decision.

    The show needs Holly back I feel. The ship seems baron without him/her. Norman had his great come back after the dire Series VIII. Let Hattie have a go Doug!

    Those going to Dimension Jump next year start chanting Hattie when Doug speaks! ;D

  72. Doug wrote Norman into the script because Norman got in touch with him. If Hattie were to do the same, perhaps she could be included on some level. I think it’s unfair to say “Hattie should have been given a go” when as far as we’re aware she hasn’t made contact.

  73. Yes, if Norman hadn’t phoned up there would be no Holly, Norman phoned up so they chucked him in. I do wonder if Skipper was going to be largely the same episode before Holly was in it, or if bringing back Holly inspired Doug to bring back other things like Hollister and the bunk room etc

  74. Doug wrote Norman into the script because Norman got in touch with him. If Hattie were to do the same, perhaps she could be included on some level. I think it’s unfair to say “Hattie should have been given a go” when as far as we’re aware she hasn’t made contact.

    More to the point, Hattie doesn’t particularly feel any strong inclination to return.

  75. “More to the point, Hattie doesn’t particularly feel any strong inclination to return.”

    Source?

    Hattie is usually at most of the DJ’s unlike Norman. She is much more keener than Norman ever was. She’d want to be in it I’m sure. Doug surely knows lots of people want her back you only have to look at his twitter feed when Norman was announced.

    ^ hardly saying no in that interview in 2014.

  76. I’ve never really understood the love for Norman. He’s always come across as a bit of a dick in interviews and seems to resent the fact that people only know him as Holly, rather than from his stand-up. He left the show in a temper tantrum, got offended when he was replaced and generally gives the impression that he’s better than RD and certainly doesn’t want to talk to fans.

    While Hattie just seems the nicest lady, who loved her time on the show, was gutted to be ‘let go’ and genuinely appreciates that RD is great and interacts with fans.

    Bring back Hattie!

  77. I don’t have the source but I’m sure she once said something about feeling she is too old to play the role again especially with HD technology these days? Though I’m sure she wouldn’t say no if asked?

  78. I’ve never really understood the love for Norman. He’s always come across as a bit of a dick in interviews and seems to resent the fact that people only know him as Holly, rather than from his stand-up. He left the show in a temper tantrum, got offended when he was replaced and generally gives the impression that he’s better than RD and certainly doesn’t want to talk to fans.

    While Hattie just seems the nicest lady, who loved her time on the show, was gutted to be ‘let go’ and genuinely appreciates that RD is great and interacts with fans.
    Bring back Hattie!

    Agreed 100%

  79. Those negative aspects of Norman Lovett probably aren’t known by the vast majority of the audience, though. I’m sure they’re just happy to see a face from the show’s early days back again.

  80. I’ve never really understood the love for Norman

    It’s Norman innit. When he’s hot he’s hot. Hattie’s good too, though. I don’t envy the position Doug’s in with regards to being criticised no matter what he does – he could bring them both back, I guess, but if you can’t write for one Holly good luck writing for two of the buggers.

  81. I prefer Hattie to Norman, but I prefer Norman’s Holly to Hattie’s. So it’s tricky.

    I dislike the fact that Norm seems to be back because he’s sick of people asking when he’s back.
    But if he’s written and performed like he was in Skipper, then I’ll enjoy if he’s written into XIII.

    I dunno.

  82. Source?

    She appeared at Gallifrey One in LA earlier this year. I was in the room when a fan asked her if she’d come back to the show, and I was in the room a few seconds later when she said she thought her time had passed and that she’d aged out of the role. She made a joke about how ropey she’d look in HD, which could’ve been in jest, but overall her answer was, basically, “Probably not.”

    I posted about it here in more detail at the time.

  83. Source?

    She appeared at Gallifrey One in LA earlier this year. I was in the room when a fan asked her if she’d come back to the show, and I was in the room a few seconds later when she said she thought her time had passed and that she’d aged out of the role. She made a joke about how ropey she’d look in HD, which could’ve been in jest, but overall her answer was, basically, “Probably not.”
    I posted about it here in more detail at the time.

    Ah ok fair enough. Though I am still not quite convinced she would 100% say no to coming back. They could distort her slightly I suppose. Norman didn’t look like a man in his 90’s so anything is possible.

  84. I love both the Lovett and Hayridge versions of Holly, but if Doug does want to bring Holly back as a regular, then I’d definitely choose Hattie over Norman (or both).

    1. The aforementioned point about Hattie being a nicer, humbler person than Norman.
    2. The Red Dwarf cast is already 4 men, so it’s obviously way better to make the 5th regular a woman.
    3. Hattie’s Holly is already established to have a good group dynamic with Lister, Rimmer, Cat and Kryten all together (though Series VIII probably isn’t Norman’s fault, to be fair).
    4. Norman has already appeared in more episodes than Hattie so far.
    5. Hattie never got to be in a Holly-focused episode as Norman did with Queeg (White Hole is really only half-focused on Holly).
    6. Female Holly has better dramatic range than male Holly. Holly showed believable concern for the crew in episodes like Back to Reality, but Series I-II Holly is pretty much stuck in sarcastic mode.

    Tell me I’m wrong. ;-)

  85. I love both the Lovett and Hayridge versions of Holly, but if Doug does want to bring Holly back as a regular, then I’d definitely choose Hattie over Norman (or both).

    1. The aforementioned point about Hattie being a nicer, humbler person than Norman.
    2. The Red Dwarf cast is already 4 men, so it’s obviously way better to make the 5th regular a woman.
    3. Hattie’s Holly is already established to have a good group dynamic with Lister, Rimmer, Cat and Kryten all together (though Series VIII probably isn’t Norman’s fault, to be fair).
    4. Norman has already appeared in more episodes than Hattie so far.
    5. Hattie never got to be in a Holly-focused episode as Norman did with Queeg (White Hole is really only half-focused on Holly).
    6. Female Holly has better dramatic range than male Holly. Holly showed believable concern for the crew in episodes like Back to Reality, but Series I-II Holly is pretty much stuck in sarcastic mode.
    Tell me I’m wrong. ;-)

    I’ll tell you….you can flap my jack anytime!

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