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Spoilers! Doctor Who - New Series. New Thread
Punching and guns. No question they’re going for a feel all of their own. I approve of that.
I especially liked him hitting the Dalek. I like the violence, a nice change fron Ten who wouldn’t go near a gun for most of the time.
Okay I know it’s a bit over the top, but I must have re-watched that trailer half a dozen times now. I’m really excited by all the face pulling, both by Eleven and Amy. I love the physical comedy in that punch, the steely determination in Smith’s eyes and the re-assurance within “Trust me, I’m a Doctor”. Genuinely stoked by it all. Roll on spring.
Didn’t that scene look as though it was a Doctor Who convention? Some of the “aliens” looked more like convention models than actual aliens!
So what do these actual aliens look like then?
Just rewatched and, actually, it’s only 2 that don’t look like genuine aliens to me. At around the 15 second mark, there is what appears to be a model of a Davros style head and also the Dalek that gets punched. I don’t think it looks real, looks like a display model
And by “genuine aliens” and “actual aliens”, I mean BBC standard SFX alien…not a real physical alien. That would just be silly…
It did feel a little small and low-budget, the trailer. But between the show having a long post-production process to go through, and the choices likely reflecting a more low-key approach to story - less running, more thinking - I have no worries.
I always want to give RTD his due for this, though - the man knew how to make the show feel unmissable. He made it hard to skip past when channel-hopping, easy to be attracted to the sumptuous eye-candy. I don’t think that automatically equals crassness or pandering. But I do think we might see a ratings drop once the initial new-series vibe wears off if the imagery continues in the vein of that trail…
> But I do think we might see a ratings drop once the initial new-series vibe wears off if the imagery continues in the vein of that trail…
That’s been my gut reaction pretty much since Smith was announced, infact since Moffat was announced. It’s been along time, if ever, since Who was as popular and as and publically adored as Tennant’s incarnation has been. So I’m fearful of their being a negative swing against the newcomers, and any ratings drop getting jumped upon by the tabloid press. At which point RTD will pop back up with a Tennant as The Doctor movie to further side-track the Moffat years. Still for now this is all just paranoia. The one bit I’m hugely confident about is that I’ll love Moffat Who and I’ll love Smith’s Doctor.
> The one bit I’m hugely confident about is that I’ll love Moffat Who and I’ll love Smith’s Doctor.
I absolutely share this optimism.
Yeah but, *shudders* you like…Shiznit I can’t remember what it was now :p
If Moffat Who genuinely dissapoints me, it’s going to sting like a bitch, because I’m rarely this positive about anything. The only bit that really concerns me is that we’re supposedly getting a Chris Chibnall two-parter.
>The only bit that really concerns me is that we’re supposedly getting a Chris Chibnall two-parter.
With the Silurians.
>the re-assurance within “Trust me, I’m a Doctor”
Wasn’t it “Trust me, I’m the Doctor”? Which I thought was a cracking line, if so.
>It did feel a little small and low-budget, the trailer. But between the show having a long post-production process to go through, and the choices likely reflecting a more low-key approach to story - less running, more thinking - I have no worries.
They’re still making the series, of course. They can only show in that trailer what they’ve actually made so far.
We all saw the two differently-coloured Daleks in there, then, yes?
Oh, and what I liked about the punch? The fact that he looked a bit surprised afterwards. I feel like this Doctor is going to be a bit skitterish (as exemplified by the way he was in his first scene - yes, he was similar to Tennant, but a bit all over the place) and wide-eyed and adventurous. I like the idea that the Moffat years might be a bit more about going off and having adventures, rather than wandering around wanting to see things all the bloody time (and rather than all the stories ending up being deeply interlinked - I hope the Moff’s stories are a bit more disconnected).
I was a bit underwhelmed. Part of that is undoubtedly my brain missing RTD’s overblown style when it comes to trailers… but it just feels a bit generic to me. I’ll try again tomorrow…
I know this conversation has been had a million times before, but I could easily have lived without the Daleks for another year. But I’m not sure if I’d be saying that if I was 10.
>Part of that is undoubtedly my brain missing RTD’s overblown style when it comes to trailers… but it just feels a bit generic to me. I’ll try again tomorrow…
Who’s that now?
It’s missing a laugh track, is the thing…
Also: is ‘Geronimo!’ the new ‘Brilliant/Fantastic/allons-y/I’m so sorry’? Final word of The End of Time, AND it shows up in the trailer…
Actually, it would have been better if Doctor Eleven had been playing golf.
I LOVE the fact he says “Geronimo!”. For obvious Rimmer-related reasons.
I was dubious about 11 but you know… I think he’s going to be brilliant. Even if he reminds me of an English Lit student who’s just rushed out of bed 2 minutes before his final exam. And the new companion is hot.
Shit… I’m going to be in Japan… I really hope I get good bandwidth.
A lot of forums are comparing it to Twilight, but seeing the trailer is probably only made from about 3 episodes, I doubt that’ll be the case.
Loving the uppercut though, complete opposite of Tennant, which is exactly what the show now needs. No comparisons made. Out with the thinking Doctor, and in with the action Doctor.
In the leaked audio clip we heard a few months ago, I picked up elements of Colin Baker and Peter Davison in Smith’s Doctor. In those final moments of “The End of Time” I got a distinct Paul McGann vibe from him.
I approve of all of these things, and I look forward to falling in love with the Doctor all over again.
I like that shot 22/23 minutes in. What a cutey.
Oh, and we’ve had werewolves. Not it looks lie we’ve got vampire too (actually aliens no doubt).
What was the murmuring at the end of the trailer? During/after the new logo?
The classic series did Vampires. They’re nothing new.
In what way are they comparing it to Twilight?
> Wasn’t it “Trust me, I’m the Doctor”? Which I thought was a cracking line, if so.
Quite right. I mis-typed it earlier.
> Also: is ‘Geronimo!’ the new ‘Brilliant/Fantastic/allons-y/I’m so sorry’? Final word of The End of Time, AND it shows up in the trailer…
It’s also used on the BBC Who site. I think it’s fair game to assume it’s going to be a catchphrase.
> In what way are they comparing it to Twilight?
Apparently it features vampires and it’s all gothic. Which is presumably down to the clips from ‘Vampires in Venice’, so less gothic more historic. Throw in that that the actors are quite young, a bit of kissing, oh and the fact that some people are ******** idiots and you get your magic number.
> The classic series did Vampires. They’re nothing new.
Don’t be silly Ben, Twilight invented Vampires.
As long as they’re not sparkly vampires we’ll be OK…
Sunshine!
Lollipops?
He happily totes a gun, and says “trust me” it’s Dr Sledge Hammer. :-p
A white Dalek and a man with strange teeth. Shooting, violence and yet more kissing! Lots more impact to create a new Doctor, but the same enemies again and again, can’t be good. I’m impressed at the length of her skirt for a police constable, or hamstergram. I’m sure the provocative nature of the new Episodes will have people talking, but only for it’s anti-establishment?
“Chin? …Blimey!”
Excellent.
“Chin? …Blimey!”
Excellent.
Myes.
Ping pong eyeballs during “Trust me, I’m the Doctor”? Not so much.
Someone on NOTBBC summed up why the punch was great: “A punch delivered with all the camp awkwardness of someone who tries to avoid violence.”
It seems in line with the idea that this Doctor is going to be a bit more wide-eyed, a bit more unsure of what he can do but having a fun time discovering who he is and having adventures.
>“Chin? …Blimey!”
>Excellent.
I liked his delivery of “I’ve had worse”. I’ll admit to having been unsure of Smith when he was first cast (although that was largely disappointment based on the fact that he wasn’t Paterson Joseph), but everything seen so far suggests he’s going to be great.
I’ve watched the new series trailer a few times now, and I love it. There’s something that feel very different about it all, and it’s not just Matt Smith. It just feels very, very *right*. Although I do worry that the popularity among the masses is going to be a shaky to start with.
> Lots more impact to create a new Doctor, but the same enemies again and again, can’t be good.
I was going to say I think we can allow Moffat some Daleks, given they’re the shows most iconic villains and he’s not had chance to play with those toys as yet. That said I think it’s Mark Gattiss’ episode that they’re going to turn up in isn’t it?
At the moment apart from The Daleks aren’t the Weeping Angels the only enemies returning that we’ve previously seen in New Who? Given that A) They’re a Moffat creation B) Haven’t actually encountered the Doctor on-screen before and C) Rock well we can allow them can’t we?
Further Smith love: That little clip in confidential where he’s composing himself for the regeneration scene and then catches the confidential camera on him seemed really sweet and natural. I’ve just realised he reminds me a bit of an old schoolmates’ Dad. Maybe that’s why I’ve taken too him, because I feel I know his Doctor allready.
> It seems in line with the idea that this Doctor is going to be a bit more wide-eyed, a bit more unsure of what he can do but having a fun time discovering who he is and having adventures.
We’re obviously reading way too much into it, but everything in that trailer backs up this idea. We’re seeing the same wonders as Tennant’s Doctor, again with wide-eyed enthusiasm, but there’s a touch more vunerability. Sure it’s probably because they’ve whacked him in a tweed jacket and a bow tie, but I’m sold on this clash of youth and wisdom mixed with sheer physicality.
Karen Gillan’s face pulling is first class too.
From the first facial expression the second he regenerated I think he’s got it nailed. The new series looks fantastic too. Stripping things back somewhat is the ONLY way they could go after the big arrogant bombast of RTD’s era (yeah yeah it was only really like that half of the time but you know what I mean). Matt’s Doctor feels less arrogant than Tennant’s for a start. It’s only the start though, leaves plenty of room for development.
Oh. Do we know if Murray Gold is staying on for the new era? It felt like Murray Gold on the trailer, but I guess that doesn’t mean he’s a definite for the actual shows.
I remember ages ago Gold saying in an interview that he imagine he’d leave when the current regime does. Things could’ve easily changed since then, especially considering that he would’ve been mentioned on Confidential or somewhere if he was actually leaving.
Well they didn’t really go on about the specifics of who’s leaving and who isn’t as far as the crew goes. Tbh I’m surprised they didn’t talk more on Confidential about RTD leaving. It was obviously a decision to focus on David more, which is fair enough, but RTD leaving IS a huge deal.
“I’ll explain later.”
From the first facial expression the second he regenerated I think he’s got it nailed. The new series looks fantastic too. Stripping things back somewhat is the ONLY way they could go after the big arrogant bombast of RTD’s era (yeah yeah it was only really like that half of the time but you know what I mean). Matt’s Doctor feels less arrogant than Tennant’s for a start. It’s only the start though, leaves plenty of room for development.
I’m still incredibly dubious about the whole thing, but I’m undecided and I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt until I’ve seen him do his thing properly. Quite honestly I don’t know how you can say “he’s got it nailed” or that his Doctor “feels less arrogant than Tennant’s” when you’ve barely seen any of him?! Personally, based on the few seconds we saw of him, I don’t think anyone can make a decision just yet.
It’s a fair point that it’s little to go on. But from Colin Bakers first line you could tell the dr was gonna be bigging himself up a lot!!!
I like the fact that the Tardis is falling apart inside. That’s a great way to make the end of a dr seem like an end of an era for production crew and it seems it will fit well with the beginning of a new look for Moffat era who.
>Someone on NOTBBC summed up why the punch was great: “A punch delivered with all the camp awkwardness of someone who tries to avoid violence.”
It’s taken me 24 hours, but I’ve just realised it reminds me of George McFly.
He is our density.
I was literally about to write he looks like George McFly, swelling up with self-satisfied smugness at being the first to note the similarity… git!
I’m still incredibly dubious about the whole thing, but I’m undecided and I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt until I’ve seen him do his thing properly. Quite honestly I don’t know how you can say “he’s got it nailed” or that his Doctor “feels less arrogant than Tennant’s” when you’ve barely seen any of him?! Personally, based on the few seconds we saw of him, I don’t think anyone can make a decision just yet.
You can have gut feelings, though. And you can piece together what you know of the actor, of the writer, and everything else. I also think that a lot can be said in a single line of dialogue, particularly when you take into account how it’s delivered - and personally I find the body language throughout the opening scene and trailer to be quite telling.
It’s all a matter of interpretation, and we could be *terribly* wrong. But it’s instinctive to look for a “vibe” in these things - and frankly, stuff like this is all part of the game that we, as fans, love to play.
I didn’t say you couldn’t, it was the certainty of the statements that I highlighted that I objected to.
I understand that some people want/hope/think he’ll be good and have every right to say so, but saying “Yeah, he’s nailed it already” I think is jumping the gun a bit, since I don’t think his line of dialogue showed us much.
Well from what we’ve seen I think he DID nail it there and then. The way he went from screaming in pain to that ‘uuh shit, what?’ bewildered expression in a split second is, to me, him cementing the characterisation straight away. It’s similar when he punches the guy out in the trailer. That kind of blundering genius that Johnny Depp does so well as Jack Sparrow (sorry, Captain Jack Sparrow).
Then you’ve got him switching from seeming quite immature with his ‘I’m a girl!’ delivery to the old-fashioned adventurer stylie of ‘geronimooooo!’ To me, especially on also viewing the trailer, he’s already very different and more interesting than Tennant’s portrayal.
So there.
You say tomato… I think he was so all over the damn place that you can’t possibly say for sure what he’s going to be like. SO THERE.
Why don’t you and Seb go get a room.
Has anyone else noticed the ULTRA-QUIET dialogue you get on the trailer from 00:50 onward, that sounds like a radio broadcast of some sort? Was just watching it again now with headphones, and I noticed it.
I can’t make out the words properly, especially the first few - but it sounds something like this:
“In the news …since the ring… the dune has taken its place in the Scottish…”
I don’t think that’s right, but I’ve tried amplifying it, and the buzz makes it difficult to decipher. Anyone got a better guess? Or has someone else noticed this already, and done a proper transcript?
> Why don’t you and Seb go get a room.
I’ve allready booked out the hotel.
> Has anyone else noticed the ULTRA-QUIET dialogue you get on the trailer from 00:50 onward, that sounds like a radio broadcast of some sort? Was just watching it again now with headphones, and I noticed it.
Okay that’s the second time I’ve read someone refer to something after the 50 second mark. What trailer are people watching? The one on the BBC Who site ends with “Trust me I’m a Doctor” at about the 45 second mark and then it’s all just logos after that, isn’t it?
The one on the BBC Who site ends with “Trust me I’m a Doctor” at about the 45 second mark and then it’s all just logos after that, isn’t it?
Not if you’re listening with headphones and have them whacked up loud, it doesn’t…
Ah fair enough. I was just worrying then that everyone else had access to an entirely different trailer ;-)
Oooh. I wondered why there was such a long pause at the end of the thing…
Isn’t there some way we can pump up the volume and clear out the hiss? Clean up the audio and listen to the radio bit properly? Isn’t there some sort of gizmo lying around someplace that can do that? And if not, why not?
I’m going to have a go at that this afternoon, but if anyone with better audio SKILLZ than me wants to try it, please do!
This is what I’m getting:
“In the year since the rangers players (?) made him famous the doon (?) has taken its place in Scottish foot-…”
Sounds like Scottish footballing stuff to me…
Very odd.
It’s almost tempting to suggest Moffat is teasing us, and it’s of absolutely no relevance whatsoever!
You know, I wondered if audio from something else had been accidentally edited in… but I couldn’t see *how* it’d happen, so I dismissed it.
Oh, I think it’s entirely deliberate - that long set of logos at the end isn’t accidental, and the Scottish connection is as big a deal as an RTD clip mentioning an incident in Cardiff.
My feeling is that something Sea Devilish is heading onto land via the Ayrshire coast…
Silurianish, shurely?
To be fair they’re not species I’m overly familiar with - I’ve mostly had to Wiki (the Silurian entry prioritises paragraphs of fan-theory-naming-and-dating for some reason). Ended up plumping for the ones that sounded like they might emerge from the ocean…
I can’t think of any other UK show whose trailer would be dissected as much as this. Not because Who attracts rabid fans - but because I can’t think of another show that has a trailer *worthy* of dissection. Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes is the closest, I guess.
I want more telly that warrants everyone being ridiculously anal.
> Why don’t you and Seb go get a room.
Well I’m already booked in with Matt so I can’t.
Revamped Silurians and Sea Devils. If they are the returnees (not 100% confirmed yet, obviously) then I will be very happy. The Daleks I think we can all welcome back. In fact it’s the first time I’ve been excited at the prospect of an appearance by the crazed pepperpots in a long time. Just as long as they’re not the BIG BAD for a long time. Moffat should save that for the very end of his tenure. Daleks vs Time Lords redux.
I can’t think of any other UK show whose trailer would be dissected as much as this.
Erm - apart from Dwarf, of course…
Did you ever do a Gallifrey & Titan banner? I’m sure it was discussed at some point.
I’d love a return for the Sea Devils. Favourite Pertwee story is ‘The Sea Devils’.
New DWM!
Love the new logo and that picture of Matt is pretty good, if a little heavily touched up. I guess it’s supposed to be a little stylised, anyway.
The mag has revealed all the writers, too. Brace yourselves:
Steven Moffat - 6 episodes
Mark Gatiss - 1 episode
Gareth Roberts - 1 episode
Richard Curtis - 1 episode
Toby Whithouse - 1 episode
Chris Chibnall - 2 episodes
Simon Nye - 1 episode
Interestingly, this syncs up almost exactly with that big list of episode spoilers from a few weeks ago, so some of the other details are likely to be spot on, too. Moff doing six is great (that’ll be ep 1, 2(maybe), 4, 5, 12 & 13 then?) but Gareth Roberts, Toby Whithouse and Chris Chibnall all fill me with varying degrees of chill, though.
I guess Whithouse has proved his sci-fi credentials a lot since School Reunion, but Roberts has been consistently shit. Planet of the Dead was one of the worst things I’ve ever experienced on TV and the rest of his Who stuff isn’t much better. Chibnall, too, wrote one of the worst episodes of Who I’ve ever seen, but he did manage to write one or maybe two decent Torchwood episodes.
Really, it’s not as radical as I thought it would be, but the addition of Richard Curtis and Simon Nye is very different and exciting. And Gatiss is great, obviously.
No matter what happens, it’ll be interesting to compare and contrast how these episodes turn out under the script editing eye of Moffat rather than Davies.
LOVE the cover.
DISAPPOINTED with the writers list. Gatiss & Whithouse = fine. Roberts & Chibnall = NO. And Nye and Curtis are both good writers, but having them both in the same series means taking the “noted comedy writer who hasn’t really done genre stuff” risk twice. I’d have preferred to see one of them bumped to series six to make room for one of the other writers that we know are hovering on the periphery but that we’ll probably have to wait a year for.
That’s a good point, actually, although I really wish you hadn’t started using the word “genre” to refer to sci-fi/fantasy ;)
Nye and Curtis don’t even come close to worrying me as much as Roberts and Chibnal but even so, at least it’ll give us a definitive view on their talents, i.e. will they be better with a different script editor or just as shit?
I’m really gutted we don’t have Cornell this series, but as you say he’ll be a cert for next year and it’s possible that other factors got in the way of his scripts being ready on time, especially if it’s been commissioned for a specific slot, like the ‘New Adventures’ two-parter.
a) The logo looks great on that cover. But the “MAGAZINE” looks small, awkward, and tacked-on. Hope they change that.
b) SIMON NYE = EXCELLENT. A risk, sure, but a fun risk.
c) I actually like Chibnall’s Life on Mars episodes, especially the one in the first series. But no, nothing he’s done in the Whoniverse really suggests why he’s got a two-parter… beyond being a safe choice because he presumably brings the scripts in on time and in a state that’s at least shootable.
Still, at the end of the day, it’s a writers list that includes SIX Moffat episodes. That’s almost certainly going to provide a better hitrate than series four, even if the other seven episodes all somehow manage to be gash.
“Matt Smith is The Doctor”…and they are the Daaaaaaaa-leks!
I think Chibnall proved himself with some great episodes in Torchwood series 2. Saying that, Who is a different kettle of fish entirely. I wonder whether this Silurian 2-parter will be the ‘romp’ one or darker like how the second 2-parter of each series has normally been. With the first one being Moffat-penned, River Song and Weeping Angels-returning, that could turn out to be the ‘deeper’ one.
Roberts can write SJA well enough but his Who efforts leave a lot to be desired. They always have such a wanky feel to them. The Shakespeare Code should have been so much better than it was. The visuals and setting saved that one.
We can guess that the Simon Nye episode was the slot that was maybe open to a few writers (Neil Gaiman?) and that Paul Cornell perhaps needs a 2-parter for his next effort, so they’re saving that for series 6. Maybe Nye had a brilliant idea that they just couldn’t turn down. If it’s episode 11 it’s likely to be Doctor-lite.
I think people have worked out that Moffat’s two parter will be the early one and Chibnall’s the later one. Although it’s anyone’s guess exactly what tone each of these will have under Moffat…
Delighted with everything except Chibnall/Roberts. Do we know if Rob Shearman is likely to ever to get another shot?
Aww, I was still holding out hope that Gaiman would be on that list. :(
I really liked “The Unicorn and the Wasp” (buzzing vicar aside), so as bad as “Planet of the Dead” was, I’m not too disappointed to see Gareth Roberts listed. (Checking Wikipedia, I’ve only just learned he also co-wrote two episodes of the second series of the Vic & Bob Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased). I loved the first series of that at the time, but the second was a big disappointment… but from what I remember, Roberts’ two episodes were the best of a bad bunch.)
>this Silurian 2-parter
What makes you think the Silurians are Chibnall’s 2-parter? Only ask ‘cos they were spotted on set quite early in shooting, pretty much around the time ep 1 was being shot. I thought it was a fairly safe assumption that ep one is “Sea Devils and Silurians in Scotland”.
This link was posted on another forum I visit.
In a nutshell it provides a bit more detail concerning which writers are assigned which episodes. It doesn’t cover them all though.
I’ll post a bit here for easy reference (with minor spoilers):
Steven Moffat, showrunner, grabs six of the episodes, including the two part with Weeping Angels and the return of the Doctor’s possible future wife, River Song.
Mark Gatiss, who wrote The Idiot’s Lantern brings us the World War II Daleks episode, mainstay Gareth Roberts writes one, Richard Curtis does the Vincent Van Gogh one, Toby Whithouse does the Venice vampire one, Chris Chibnall, I know I know, calm down, calm down, writes two, including the Silurian/Sea Devils episode, and creator of Men Behaving Badly and So How Do You Want Me writes one.
Some nice recent snowy pictures there too.;)
>Do we know if Rob Shearman is likely to ever to get another shot?
I heard he written a script and it has been held over to Series Two. Oh and speaking of the numbering thing, I posted this on IMDB and GB so I’ll repost it here, this is from the Moffat interview in DWM417 -
“It’s Series Thirty-One of Doctor Who, and it’s Series One of Matt Smith’s Doctor, Those are both real numbers. I submit that ‘Series Five of Doctor Who’ means absolutely nothing unless you really believe that Matt Smith is the third Doctor. Everyone knows he’s the Eleventh Doctor so that means it’s definitely not ‘Series Five’. Whichever number you choose, ‘Series Five’ is the one that’s flawed.”
“‘Series One’ is an exciting sentence. ‘Series Thirty-One’ is an awe-inspiring sentence. ‘Series Five’ is a boring sentence - and also a complete lie”
Are we back on this again? If the rule is, they reset by Doctor (and not showrunnner) why wasn’t the 2006 series called “Series One”? Sorry, Moff but your logic is bollocks.
>Sorry, Moff but your logic is bollocks.
That is just snippets of the interview. Get DWM and read it yourself and it does make sense.
>Oh and speaking of the numbering thing…
Please don’t start this again or I may just have to hunt you down and kill you.
It’s Doctor Who. It’s new. Beyond that I honestly couldn’t care less about what number appears on the boxset at the end of the series.
In other news Shrek is writing an episode of Series One. Big fan according to Moffat.
> That is just snippets of the interview. Get DWM and read it yourself and it does make sense.
Unless he completely retracts the quote you posted, then I’m afraid it’s nothing other than complete nonsense, for the reason Pete has already pointed out.
In lighter news:
http://www.holymoly.com/sites/default/files/imce/doctor-who-facebook-pag...
Superb.
>Unless he completely retracts the quote you posted, then I’m afraid it’s nothing other than complete nonsense, for the reason Pete has already pointed out.
The reason that Pete pointed out is not really the reason for calling it Series One, they had three choices, one of them being Series Five and it sounded, to the marketing department, to be an aging brand, another being Series One of Matt Smith’s series, another being Series Thirty-One, they picked the one that sounded new and exciting rather than the one whioch sounded like a show which was running out of steam (Series Five).
Of course, the marketing department are always going to a level headed bunch of people that should be listened to.
And American shows never have problems when they start running to season 5 and beyond, do they? Friends never lost popularity because people were put off by the even increasing season numbers.
It is marketing led bullshit working on logic that has already been proved wrong with hundreds of shows.
(Apologies to Jo for continuing to beat on this particular drum, but sometimes arguing with SoundableObject is too tempting to resist.)
I really don’t want to get into this debate as I don’t care all that much (although processing BBC residuals and figuring out which “series 1” the paperwork refers to is going to be FUN), but:
>If the rule is, they reset by Doctor (and not showrunnner) why wasn’t the 2006 series called “Series One”?
Er, how about: Moffat wasn’t in charge of the rules back then, but is now?
>And American shows never have problems when they start running to season 5 and beyond, do they? Friends never lost popularity because people were put off by the even increasing season numbers.
I remember that episode of friends were the entire cast changed and the apartments were changed and the cafe was blown up. That was a good’un wasn’t it?
> I remember that episode of friends were the entire cast changed and the apartments were changed and the cafe was blown up. That was a good’un wasn’t it?
Ok, I see the inherent problem comparing Doctor Who to any other TV show because of the way it can refresh itself, but when you have two series 1 of a series in 5 years it makes no sense at all. If the argument that higher numbers increase the chance that people lose interest in the show is the one that’s being used, then going by old trends they don’t have to worry until they get to about 20…
I think numbers mean alot more now then they did then though. Series 5 back then was just another 40 odd episodes and after they were out they fucked off onto a scrapheap (half of them anyway).
Today all the DVDs and Blu-Ray and ITunes and all that stuff, numbers have alot more meaning today, you can’t compare it to 1968.
Calling it Series 5 makes a newcomer think “I’ll have to watch Series 1, ahh I can’t be arsed” which is complete bollocks.
Calling it Series 1 makes a newcomer watch it thinking it is the first and enjoy it, then they’ll realise it is just the first in a new era of the show and go back from there.
Overall it may confuse a few fans and a few people may buy the wrong DVD by mistake but it will get more people to watch the show.
If that’s the argument (which, I admit, at least makes some sense) then why not refer to the series by years? It is definitely a problem when the same show as two series 1s in 5 years, no matter what the justification is.
I’d also argue that this hypothetical new viewer would find this new series 1 and then be safe in the knowledge that they’ve started from the beginning and not even bother to seek out the first series 1. Oh, and as they’re browsing around iTunes, they see series 2 and think “cool, another series I’ll download that” and before you know it people have a wholly *different* reason to be angry with New Earth.
If you’re taking a view that your audience are too stupid and fickle to deal with high series numbers, or to be aware of the nature of Doctor Who and it’s rebooting, then you’ve also got to assume that they’re too stupid to deal with a show that has doubled up its series numbers.
>If that’s the argument (which, I admit, at least makes some sense) then why not refer to the series by years?
Well, because then the same casual viewers won’t have a clue which series represents the start of the aforementioned new era, innit.
> Well, because then the same casual viewers won’t have a clue which series represents the start of the aforementioned new era, innit.
Putting aside for a moment that I believe this was YOUR IDEA (or Julian’s, I forget) I can’t see why in the World this would be an issue. Again, this is assuming too much ignorance of these viewers, quite aside from the fact that casual viewers wont give two stuffs about new eras. The only thing they need is a clear indication of how one series relates to any other in the context of Doctor Who not RTD and Moffat.
Lot’s o’ lovely pictures from the filming of Richard Curtis’s episode here:
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-series-filming-pics.html
Karen seems to love wearing very short skirts, in her interview with Matt in DWM she said it makes her feel sassy, sass on Karen, sass on.
> Karen seems to love wearing very short skirts
Not as much as I’d wager Moff loves her wearing short skirts.
Meet Andrew Ellard and shake hands with a walking continent of common sense.*
*Disclaimer: quote may be mangled beyond all recognition.
> Meet Andrew Ellard and shake hands with a walking continent of common sense.
And typos, sadly. Sorry for flow-breaking, but EDITED to make some of the language English:
So far as I can see, every alternative has its merits and faults. It’s perfectly possible to see all sides, since they all have a point.
‘Series One’ obviously has a lot of ‘fresh start’ feel. It does what the new Trek movie did, really - made it sound like its own thing. It’s easy to understand why it has a use, that newcomers don’t feel like they’re behind. (I’m not watching Spooks because I arrived to the party late. If there was a clear ‘fresh start’ moment, I might join up.)
But it’s also messy. As has been pointed out, two series ones within much less than decade is pretty ugly. Some people thought Batman Begins was a prequel rather than a reboot because it was in relatively close proximity to the last of the previous Batman film series. Using ‘series one’ is the opposite - it implies reboot to something that’s actually a continuation. And of something HUGELY popular, not a show that’s losing viewers at it becomes more self-involved.
So calling it series one will encourage some viewers, yes, but it’s not like that was an problematic area. It’s medicating a condition the patient doesn’t suffer from. It’s also not the way the first wave of viewers will come to the show - ‘Series One’ doesn’t appear on-screen. It’s just ‘The One With The New Doctor’, and as such already feels plenty new-start-y in its marketing without some labelling on the paperwork.
And, as has been said searches online get harder now, not easier. In the years to come people will have to do active research before they can be sure what they’re considering paying for is what they want. Which is a barrier to purchase and involvement in an era of download-to-view - a hindrance as much as a help.
The ‘new Doctor, first series’ argument is valid enough. It’s a first, but there’s no rule that says you can’t do something first. Different bosses will make different decisions. Still, I doubt Moffat would do it again if he ended up having to change Docs half-way through his own run…
‘Series Five’ is a clear continuation of the current, modern success. It makes a measure of sense, since you want that audience to follow on. Since, on screen, it just says ‘Doctor Who’, very few will be swayed to watching or not watching based on a series number they won’t see at that point - meanwhile it helps the current downloaders stay on track.
Moff’s argument that it makes no sense to call it Five is spurious, though. This new series isn’t coming after lengthy hiatus, it’s not part of a wholesale reinvention - it’s a continuance of a reinvention. The difference between the ‘89 and ‘05 shows is going to be much larger than between ‘09 and ‘10. New leading man is no different than Tennant’s start. New sets don’t matter to newcomers OR returnees. And the argument that ‘everyone knows he’s Doctor 11’ is based on a definition of ‘everyone’ that would make ‘series one’ just as invalid.
That ‘series five’ sounds ‘ageing’ rather than ‘long running and successful’ is pulled out of thin air. While there’s no shortage of tired, flawed fifth series of shows, nobody assumes tiredness and flaws BECAUSE of that number. I’ve never, ever seen that as a default assumption.
‘Series Thirty-One’. Okay, maybe that does sound old. Certainly it’s bewildering for the huge number of New Who fans. It won’t confuse newcomers and it makes sense to classic fans. Only ‘05+ fans - generally kids - get baffled by that. But that’s a massive part of the audience and worth paying attention to.
It barely matters for the most part, since it’s easy for fans to talk about ‘Moffat series one’ (no worse than talking about a fifth series and having to differentiate between the 60s one and the present one, anyway), and while it’s on the air it’ll be “Did you see Doctor Who last night?’ anyway. The number barely matters…
…except to the onliners. People searching iTunes, torrents and web resources. And if there’s where it’s seen and matters most, it’s hard to see ‘series one’ as anything other than a dopy decision.
In lighter news:
http://www.holymoly.com/sites/default/files/imce/doctor-who-facebook-pag...
Superb.
“The Master likes this”
“…”
EDIT: The same person’s also done one for the Master! Love his sixth friend…
http://the-hellish-gnome.deviantart.com/art/The-Master-s-Facebook-Page-1...
Epic - I love stuff like that!
I’m sorry but HOW gorgeous does Karen look in the new pics…somebody please…hold me back. :p
> somebody please…hold me back. :p
*calls the Police*
I don’t know what you expect Sting to be able to do.
Andrew said (in the other thread) “Actually, yeah - Jack’s origin in a Moffat story and Sarah Jane’s in old Who might make them exceptions. (Am I right in thinking Moff’s the only one who knows the truth about Jack’s missing memory?)”
I get the feeling this has, rather aptly, been forgotten about. They’ve dumped so much mystery on Jack (his past on Earth revealed in CofE, that bollcoks about him being the FoB, the immortality thing), that it just seems kind of inconsequential now. A shame, as it was intriguing.
I don’t think we’ll see CJ in Who any more though. If RTD is going to continue with Torchwood, it seems odd to loan him out to Moffat occasionally. Plus, Matt Smith’s Doctor seems a bit more rough and ready, so they probably don’t need the “muscle” in Who any more.
> I don’t think we’ll see CJ in Who any more though.
I dunno - after The West Wing I think she’s available…
Jack was still an RTD creation even if his first ep, and obviously a lot of his character, was Moffat’s. Though if anyone were to return I think he’d be the most likely. Maybe Matt Smith could appear in the very last SJA or something but I reckon her time in Who itself is over.
I’d imagine the powers that be would be interested in maintaining the Sarah-Jane link because that audience would flow naturally into Who’s current and future audience. It depends where they take Torchwood as to whether or not the same could be said for Captain Jack.
I’m sorry to come late to this, but would it make more sense to refer to the new Doctor Who series in terms of volumes as well? So taking the new Who as the starting point (which has been pretty much adopted): Volume 1, series 1-4 (plus specials), then Volume 2, series 1-?
Works for comics, they’re always bloody renumbering themselves.
So Doctor Who Volume 2 Series 1 (New Series 5 (Season 31))?
I don’t like that simply because it feels like it glorifies the head writer over the programme.
I really don’t like that he said ‘“series 5” means nothing’. If he was rebooting the show then fair enough but his first episode follows immediately on from The End of Time Pt.2 which IS technically the last episode of series 4. River Song was created for series 4 and is obviously going to be a major part of Moffat’s tenure. The Weeping Angels from series 3 appear. etc. etc. As far as writers go, only Richard Curtis and Simon Nye are non-returnees from RTD’s era.
It’s the same show as RTD era series’ 1-4.
>So Doctor Who Volume 2 Series 1 (New Series 5 (Season 31))?
>I don’t like that simply because it feels like it glorifies the head writer over the programme.
Yeah, but they’ve already done that by choosing to reboot the numbering with a new showrunner, haven’t they? The convention alone hasn’t had that effect: it’s simply a response.
>> I don’t think we’ll see CJ in Who any more though.
>I dunno - after The West Wing I think she’s available…
:oD
CJ is currently sleeping off her tea on a big cushion.
I think I’ve a way around all these silly numbering issues. Let’s just call it the best Who.
Disclaimer: Unless it’s like… you know, not.
If* there’s an overall theme and/or story arc running through the series I wouldn’t mind the series being named after that rather than numbered. Of course they should keep it suitably vague to avoid spoilers for those buying the DVDs later who never saw the televised version. (The title doesn’t need to be mentioned on the telly. I rarely take note of the series numbering but I always know it’s a new series.)
*That could be a bit ‘if’ though as most Who stories are pretty self contained but there’s usually something. Bad Wolf. Drums. Etc.
The problem with that is naming the 2005 series “Bad Wolf” on the DVD box set kind of ruins it. We weren’t told about Bad Wolf before the series ran, and it got fans talking and speculating. Granted that’s not something a new viewer is going to care about, but it’s much more fun to pick up on this stuff yourself then it is to have it spelled out for you before you’ve even seen the first episode.
When I introduced Michelle to Doctor Who, she picked up on Bad Wolf and Vote Saxon by herself (the “Vote Saxon” thing was a pretty good find for her, actually - she saw the poster in the background during “Smith and Jones” and remembered seeing it in “Captain Jack Harkness” in Torchwood… even I missed that on the first viewing). She asked me a ton of questions that I refused to answer for her.
Point taken. That was just an example off the top of my head, but the concept of naming a series by title should work. Granted it would need to be suitably vague.
How about calling it ‘season 1’. Or ‘The Complete David Tennant Isn’t In It Anymore So Why Bother I’ll Tell You Why It’s Matt Smith Oh And You Can Suck Moffat’s Cock Harder Than Ever Now He’s Showrunner And You Won’t Be Being Gay Because RTD’s Gone Oh And Look It’s The Weeping Angels From That Episode It’s Proper Real Doctor Who Better Than Jekyll Promise - Series 1’
‘The Eleventh Doctor - The Complete First Series’ is more likely.
>How about calling it ‘season 1’.
We already have one of those, 1963-1964.
Argh, you’re all melting my brain! :P Let’s just go by the Doctors. So we’ve just finished 10 (volumes 1-3) and we’re entering season 11 now. Sure, each season would be a completely different length but it would make sense?
I agree.
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind that either. A lot of older DVDs are listed by the actor’s name after all. Mind you they tend to be collected by story rather than series, but it would work. Doctor and year.
Oh, whatever. It doesn’t really matter.
Onto something else- I’m interested to see more of the tardis. Ok, I already have a bit with the odd picture here and there but that’s not the same. I wonder if he will actually has to rebuild, moving struts etc, or if it’s just a Tardis healing/regeneration thing, it (or should I say ‘she’) being a living organism and all.
A couple more rooms would be nice too.
Why is it so confusing? Just call the 9th Doc series ‘Series 1’, call the 11th ‘Series One’.
WILL EVERYONE STOP TALKING ABOUT SERIES NUMBERING NOW PLEASE
I’m fairly close to declaring an outright ban.
> I’m fairly close to declaring an outright ban.
So long as it immediately follows declaring me the outright winner.
>Why is it so confusing? Just call the 9th Doc series ‘Series 1’, call the 11th ‘Series One’.
Yes, I can’t see this causing any confusion at all.
SoundableObject wins. The End.
STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT.
Hence “The End”.
> Yeah, I wouldn’t mind that either. A lot of older DVDs are listed by the actor’s name after all. Mind you they tend to be collected by story rather than series, but it would work. Doctor and year.
There’s about only about three years’ worth of releases left by-story (including a few tricky ones where most, but not ALL, of their episodes are intact). Once they’re done, I’m sure they’ll rerelease them as “Doctor 5, series 1”, etc (since McCoy’s in nearly a quarter of the TVM, they’ll probably bung that in with his last series. Or even, given how short his three series are, just do a “Complete Seventh and Eighth Doctors” set).
I’m going to call it Moff-who. Although I’m not suggesting that should be official. Although it would be amusing if it was.
So… the new look of the inside of the tardis then…. (Snigger. Note, to self, try a different angle..)
Is that Tardis ‘healing’ thing something specific to New Who (i.e. like when it heals after colliding with the Titanic. From the little I’ve seen of Old Who, damage required an extensive old school repair job, although that was usually components rather than large bits of the ship’s structure). Slightly off topic I guess but I’m just wondering how the new console room will be explained from an in-world perspective. Not that we probably won’t find out when we see it, but it’s something else to discuss apart from numbering.
I think in this case the TARDIS ‘healing’ will be the reason for the console room change, but the fact that it’s been altered so much over the history of the show I think it’s safe to assume that The Doctor can rebuild and move around rooms as he pleases.
The Fifth Doctor said that they could reconfigure the Tardis interior more-or-less at will in Castrovalva, didn’t he?
Ah, yes, that’s what I was thinking of! I knew it’d been mentioned before, but I wasn’t sure if it was in the show or in Big Finish’s fan fiction.
My guess is that the basic shape/layout are going to be much the same as before, including the round console - but it’ll all get a spruce up, and the coral will all be gone, with an overriding silver/metal finish instead.
AND A BIG STAIRCASE.
I’m sure it’ll be lovely, anyway, especially if they manage to create new rooms, corridors.
I wonder if they’ll keep the look secret until transmission of episode 1? I image there’ll be a load of promotional photos soon, but I hope this is saved.
There were also a couple of partial shots in the trailer:
From beneath the console (incomplete?): http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dw9-570x323.jpg
And behind Doctor & River: http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dw11-570x323.jpg
I think it would be a great idea to do some more ‘do you wanna come with me?’ style trailers (they’re still the best ever), new Tardis interior included. There’s no real need to keep the look totally secret for episode 1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQyujVvRcY
Seriously, how psyched did this trailer get everyone??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHO9sCf4oc
EDIT: Damn pagirritation. This was posted in response to performingmonkey posting the 2005 “Trip of a lifetime” trailer, and appears even randomer without it directly above…
Ahaha, I’ve made a fool of you.
Just upped the limit a bit. Hopefully we wont get any memory errors.
Johnnnnaatthhhaannn…!
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
I’d like to see a return of some of the RTD era companions someday down the road. I know that SM will wan’t to put his own stamp on DW so we probably won’t see any in season 5 or 6, but think about it..
Doc 11’s first companion is ginger ;)
Which did make me think of a senario where Catherine Tate would stay on for one series with MS after DT had left.
.comment deleted due me being an idiot and double posting it.
Thank God you fixed that one.
steven87gill x 9 duplicate posts = EPIC FAIL
I like maths. ^__^
Does anyone know what hair colour we can expect from Doc 11s first companion?
.due me being an idiot and double posting it..
Erm, that .could. be somewhat of an understatement
‘walks away ashamed with head in hands’ :(
> Just upped the limit a bit.
Keep feeling pagination, passion burning, love so strong.
If they’re going to return any companion they need to return the Brig, only the 9th and 10th Doctors have never met him up to now (though the 10th was meant to in ‘The Wedding of Sarah Jane’ I think).
>only the 9th and 10th Doctors have never met him up to now
Sixth?
(if you say Big Finish so help me god I’ll slug you)
> (if you say Big Finish so help me god I’ll slug you)
It’s worse than that, Ted… it’s Dimensions In Time.
I was thinking of both actually, ‘The Spectre Of Lanyon Moore’ is fucking fantastic. Wether you think it is canon or not it had that Doc meet the Brig, same with ‘Minuet in Hell’ for Paul McGann.
Just a shame that ‘Minuet in Hell’ was so monumentally shit.
Haven’t heard MiH, since Radio 7 skipped it on their run-through the earlier 8th Doctor audios (which I didn’t take for a promising sign).
Chimes of Midnight, however, lived up to its’ billing, and I liked Scherzo (though didn’t get any more 8th Dr audios after it, since the rest of the other universe thing has a poor rep).
>Haven’t heard MiH, since Radio 7 skipped it on their run-through the earlier 8th Doctor audios (which I didn’t take for a promising sign).
It was because it wasn’t suitable for the time it would air, not because it was crap.
If I remember correctly wasn’t it due to radio 7 the them editing out the Charlie arc as much as possible in the series? Or am I just talking a load of old bollocks?
MILD, YET OBVIOUS, SPOILER ABOUT ONE OF PAUL MCGANN’S AUDIO ADVENTURES!
It probably doesn’t matter but I like to think putting warnings at the beginning of posts make them seem more foreboding, even if it’s just to inform people that you’re eating a jam tart while typing. :)
Paul McGann’s audio adventures aren’t canon, are they? They had Rassillon get killed in it in “Zagreus”, unless I’m remembering it wrong. It’s been a long time since I’ve bothered to listen to that story (because it’s so long, I know a lot of people think it’s rubbish but I was prepared; I lowered my expectations and enjoyed it).
I always thought the Big Finish audios must be generally well regarded. I think that’s mostly informed by how long they’ve been running though as I’ve not really heard that many of them. Am I under the wrong impression?
> Paul McGann’s audio adventures aren’t canon, are they?
What is and isn’t canon is largely up to each individual. Remember that the Master had died in a bunch of different mediums, including the TV series itself, and still comes back time and again.
Personally I look upon the Doctor Who novels and audios in the same way Lucasfilm look at the Star Wars Expanded Universe - the books and audios are canon, expect where contradicted by the TV series which takes precedent.
“I always thought the Big Finish audios must be generally well regarded. I think that’s mostly informed by how long they’ve been running though as I’ve not really heard that many of them. Am I under the wrong impression?”
Oh no, they are well regarded. “Neverland” is a classic, but “Zagreus” was the one after it and was produced on a Who anniversary (I forget which one, might have been the 50th), plus there was a long gap between the cliff hanger and conclusion. Basically “Zagreus” had so much of a build up that it was never going to match people’s expectations. Although, to be honest, I enjoyed it, the only thing that I find personally wrong with it is the whole thing is about 3 hours.
Paul McGann’s audio adventures aren’t canon, are they? They had Rassillon get killed in it in “Zagreus”, unless I’m remembering it wrong. It’s been a long time since I’ve bothered to listen to that story (because it’s so long, I know a lot of people think it’s rubbish but I was prepared; I lowered my expectations and enjoyed it).
No, he was back only a few stories later.
Oh right, fair enough, I didn’t know that.
> Paul McGann’s audio adventures aren’t canon, are they?
I watched a panel with Paul Cornell on canonicity at Novelcon (in Manchester, while most people were Dimension Jumping this year). He said he believes everything, ever is canoinical- 60s Dalek films, DIT, NA’s, EDA’s, Comics, Big Finish, Curse of Fatal Death, Shalka…the lot!
So both Shada’s are canon? ;-)
>So both Shada’s are canon? ;-)
Quite easily. Tom did ‘Shada’ and then the events of ‘The Five Doctors’ changed history and made the Paul McGann version of ‘Shada’ possible.
As for wether the audios and all that are canon well Who has no canon really. You come up with your own personal continuity.
Frankly ‘Zagreus’ having Rassilon killed doesn’t really effect the new series because the guy Tennant calls Rassilon is never actually confirmed as THE Rassilon and even if he is then the Time Lords could have just brought him back using the Matrix.
Just while I have the opportunity to tell this story about Paul McGann: Well… not really about him more about my mum. (Hey, it’s still interesting!) Sort of… Anyway, I went to Collectomania in Manchester a few years back, where Paul McGann was doing a Q&A (solo, as Colin Baker didn’t turn up for some reason, despite being in the same building) and my mum asked him if he enjoyed being the first Liverpudlian Doctor. He told her that Tom Baker was actually from Liverpool. There was about a minute silence, which is a long time when you’ve turned up to Collectomania with your mum who’s tried to make a joke but it’s back fired.
But it wasn’t as bad as the following year where Chris Barrie and Craig Charles were doing a Q&A and as we were leaving, we saw Craig lighting up a cigarette outside and my mum whipsered (capitals needed to emphasise the loudness of her whispering) “it’s Craig Charles… HE’S SMOKING :O”. He smiled and nodded in our direction, but at least that time my moment of slight embarrassment was halved as my brother had come that time too.
I rarely have an excuse to tell these sort of pointless stories so I’m going to go with my third and final one, which is just about how when at the first Collectomania I went to when Simon Pegg and Nick Frost were giving a talk about Hot Fuzz and at the end Nick was handing out t-shirts and my mum ran up to him waving in his face and saying “hellooooo” and he waved back in her face and went “helloooooo”. I suffered from chronic fan meltdown and tried to say something to Simon Pegg but all I could do was shake his hand and tremble “thank…you”. Since then I’ve lost a remarkable amount of respect for myself, I didn’t know I was such a weedy twat in front of celebrities I like.
I’m pretty sure I’d punch Tom Cruise in his stupid, tiny face if I ever met him though, even if I was hunted down by scientologists for the rest of my life.
“Frankly ‘Zagreus’ having Rassilon killed doesn’t really effect the new series because the guy Tennant calls Rassilon is never actually confirmed as THE Rassilon and even if he is then the Time Lords could have just brought him back using the Matrix.”
Oh yeah and as for the Rassilon thing, I did sort of kinda think (I’m good at sentence structure at this time in the morning, eh?) that Tennant calling him Rassilon could’ve been a title or, as you say, that he’s been brought back using the Matrix in the form of a great actor Timothy Dalton instead of… I don’t think it’s controversial to say that Don Warrington can’t act; my family all agree that he can’t but I don’t know if people on here agree. Of course, I’m basing this purely on Rising Damp, I can’t really remember what he was like in Doctor Who (the TV and the audio adventure), and I don’t think he was bad in Dwarf, although you’ve got to admit (or not) that Craig is the reason his scene is funny.
> Simon Pegg and Nick Frost were giving a talk about Hot Fuzz and at the end Nick was handing out t-shirts and my mum ran up to him waving in his face and saying “hellooooo” and he waved back in her face and went “helloooooo”. I suffered from chronic fan meltdown and tried to say something to Simon Pegg but all I could do was shake his hand and tremble “thank…you”. Since then I’ve lost a remarkable amount of respect for myself, I didn’t know I was such a weedy twat in front of celebrities I like.
I go rather eccentric in front of celebrities.
The time I met Simon Pegg and Nick Frost, I was drinking in a pub near Oxford Street on a random weekday lunchtime with my two bosses and we were literally the only three people in the pub. I went up to the bar to order drinks and a guy walked in and stood at the bar next to me - Simon Pegg. I totally squee-d, shook his hand and introduced myself and told him I was a big Spaced fan and I was glad he was doing so well. He looked rather bemused at first but smiled and said thanks for liking his stuff from the beginning as t’were. I went back to my table and he ordered a couple of drinks. Just as I was wondering ‘why two drinks?’ in walks Nick Frost! I raise my drink to him and he smiles and waves back and the pair settle into their drinks.
‘Do you know them?’ my boss asks.
GAH! Stooopid people annoy me. ^__^
“‘Do you know them?’ my boss asks.”
Out of interest, was this before Run Fatboy Run was released? I know Shaun of the Dead is still pretty much a cult film (although everyone I know has heard of it, so I may be wrong there) but since then he’s been in so many films that people should recognise him from adverts with or without beard.
Alas, I only came into Spaced after Shaun of the Dead, so though I may love everything Simon Pegg has done (except for the Big Nothing which I can’t bring myself to watch for fear of it being terrible) I can’t be called a true fan, the same way any Modest Mouse fan who started listening to them after their hit isn’t a true fan… which includes me again.
Hell, I don’t think I’ve followed ANYTHING from the beginning apart from the Inbetweeners, and I think I’ve already mentioned my claim to someone else’s fame within the past six hours so I won’t repeat myself.
Oh yeah, and I’m actually very jealous that you met him in a pub! A social arena of drinking instead of a mini convention… Seems more and IS more intimate. I spend a lot of time in pubs since all my friends are either alcoholics or alcoholic students, and the only person I’ve met in a pub is someone who claimed he was a rock icon from “back in the day”. This guy kept rabbiting on about having played with Joe Strummer or Ian Dury or someone with that sort of punk attitude.
I always try to downplay the fanboy part of my personality, and I’m often described as cynical about celebrities, but every time I meet someone I’ve admired from a TV screen I end up like Bernard Black when he meets that guy out of Green Wing playing that explorer. His name escapes me at the moment.
that guy out of Green Wing playing that explorer. His name escapes me at the moment.
Julian Rhind-Tutt ‘is name is :D
Julian Rhind-Tutt’s hair is inconsistent in style in the first episode of Green Wing, but consistent in sheer amazingness over the course of the episode. I can’t remember his hair in any other episode, I just remember noticing that there was a scene in the first series where his hair looked permed in a random scene, or something like that. I might be remembering wrong but I’m pretty sure it’s at least a little bit true.
> Out of interest, was this before Run Fatboy Run was released?
Gahh…I can’t remember. I was working with those bosses from April 2007 - July 2008 so it would have been somewhere in between there I guess.
> I may love everything Simon Pegg has done (except for the Big Nothing which I can’t bring myself to watch for fear of it being terrible)
You MUST see the Big Nothing - it’s a fantastic film. A real thriller and keeps you guessing right up until the last 30 seconds of the film.
> Oh yeah, and I’m actually very jealous that you met him in a pub!
^__^ T’was great.
> told him I was a big Spaced fan and I was glad he was doing so well. He looked rather bemused at first but smiled and said thanks for liking his stuff from the beginning as t’were
I was a fan of Pegg via We Know Where You Live, one of Channel 5’s early ‘nightly comedy’ installments… yeah, I was also one of maybe 5 people who would watch The Jack Docherty Show every night too.
Also, Big Train and his memorable appearance in I’m Alan Partridge all came before Spaced. Quite randomly, considering I thought very highly of Pegg, I only watched Spaced for the first time about a year ago.
Actually feeling a bit like Frank Doberman, the Self-Righteous Brother from Harry Enfield, for referring to the man simply as “Pegg” throughout this post. Oiii! Pegg! Noooo!
I’ve been a fan of Simon Pegg since I saw him in his school nativity play in 1976. He nailed the part of the Inn Keeper.
I first really saw Simon Pegg in “Is it Bill Bailey” as the crap shepherd.
Why won’t they release this on DVD?
“I was sat in the living room, eating a potato waffle. My wife was enjoying a Pot Noodle, what flavour was it love, Beef and Tomato? Don’t be daft, woman, you’re allergic…”
I do love Big Train, though. Some brilliant ideas in there.
> told him I was a big Spaced fan and I was glad he was doing so well. He looked rather bemused at first but smiled and said thanks for liking his stuff from the beginning as t’were
> Also, Big Train and his memorable appearance in I’m Alan Partridge all came before Spaced. Quite randomly, considering I thought very highly of Pegg, I only watched Spaced for the first time about a year ago.
His words, not mine. We were perhaps referring to the programmes where he was the main focus or co-writing in the earlier days, not every single entry on his IMDB page. Can’t stand those programmes anyways, although I did like The Day Today.
> I’ve been a fan of Simon Pegg since I saw him in his school nativity play in 1976. He nailed the part of the Inn Keeper.
He was robbed for the Best Supporting Actor Oscar that year.
Frankly ‘Zagreus’ having Rassilon killed doesn’t really effect the new series because the guy Tennant calls Rassilon is never actually confirmed as THE Rassilon and even if he is then the Time Lords could have just brought him back using the Matrix.
RTD confirms in The Writer’s Tale 2 : Electric Boogaloo that it is THE Rassilon, and that the Time Lords basically just brought back EVERYONE to fight in the Time War (including the Doctor’s mother).
> The Writer’s Tale 2
Worth getting if you’ve already got the first one? Or am I just going to grumble about duplicating content I already have?
Titbits from the update book, please!
One assumes the ‘Doctor’s mother’ reference wraps up the identity of Wilf’s imaginary friend…?
>Worth getting if you’ve already got the first one?
God, yes.
Even if RTD suggests the Woman is the Doctor’s mother this is obviously not canon until it’s included in an episode sooooooo another writer could turn her into Susan, Romana, his daughter, anyone they liked.
> God, yes.
Done.
I don’t like the idea of it being his mother. I don’t understand why seeing his mother would make him come to the decision to send the Time Lords back. I know I wasn’t confused when I was watching it, but looking back I’m really confused by the ending to that whole scenario and it isn’t helped by the faulty memory card in my brain. I know it’s open to interpretation but I don’t have ANY interpretation. I’m going to have to steal one from one of you guys, hope you don’t mind :).
> I don’t understand why seeing his mother would make him come to the decision to send the Time Lords back.
Well, aside from her giving him the subtle nod to do it, if you were contemplating acting like a complete psycho by gunning down the Lord President to assume his mantle, seeing your mum there all of a sudden would probably make you think twice. She didn’t bring him up to behave like that!
Oh, I didn’t notice the nod. I don’t have the means to watch it again until I buy the DVD, which will be a while as I’m currently saving up for a banjo.
>She didn’t bring him up to behave like that!
Actually from the exchanges with Wilf, I got the impression she meant that gun to be used, and that she thought The Doctor would have to kill.
Of course she didn’t realise how it would all turn out, so I think you’re right that she gave The Doctor her affirmation that he should go ahead and send them all back.
>RTD confirms in The Writer’s Tale 2 : Electric Boogaloo that it is THE Rassilon, and that the Time Lords basically just brought back EVERYONE to fight in the Time War (including the Doctor’s mother).
Yeh but that wasn’t said on the episode.
> Yeh but that wasn’t said on the episode.
Then it’s not canon. Because if it isn’t said on screen it doesn’t count, right?
You hear that, Shada? You don’t count!
I never said screen, I said on the episode, comics have episodes, audios have episodes, ‘Shada’ has 12 episodes including the TV version and audio.
Plus as I said before, Who has no canon in the prime sense of the word, nobody will ever agree on the canon, you’ll always have that one guy shouting “Paul McGann isn’t canon”. All you have is a personal continuity if you really care.
>Yeh but that wasn’t said on the episode.
Neither was any of the stuff you mention from the audio dramas.
Talking about Doctor Who canon is the most meaningless exercise in the entire world.
No, it’s the second most meaningless. After discussing series numbering.
Are you *trying* to spark off another conversation about something you told everyone to shut up about?
Now hang on, this is only the fourth time this conversation has come up. Or is it a continuation, since it’s in the same thread as the second conversation happened? Just how ARE we going to number our discussions about series numbering?
>>Worth getting if you’ve already got the first one?
>God, yes.
One thing I was surprised and disappointed by, was the move away from “Coffee table format” to “regular book shape format”. This is undoubtedly to keep the costs down, but it’s at least 248 times less pretty and as well presented than the first volume.
Frankly ‘Zagreus’ having Rassilon killed doesn’t really effect the new series because the guy Tennant calls Rassilon is never actually confirmed as THE Rassilon and even if he is then the Time Lords could have just brought him back using the Matrix.
It’s been a long time since i listened to it but I thought that he was just traped in the diivergent universe rather than being killed. Rassilion hasn’t ever been killed in any Big Finish has he? I hope not as I really don’t want to have to go back through McGann’s third season just to correct my memory.
Ah I must be wrong then. In that case, I’m happy :).
Nice to see, although I hope it doesn’t rule him out of ever playing the Doctor (hopefully the Rule of Colin Baker will stand. And I don’t mean the one about segregation).
> Talking about Doctor Who canon is the most meaningless exercise in the entire world.
No, that prize goes to actually listening to or reading non-canonical material!
> No, it’s the second most meaningless. After discussing series numbering.
No, the second most meaningless exercise is telling people the series number DOESN’T matter when it blatantly DOES.
> although I hope it doesn’t rule him out of ever playing the Doctor
Never gonna happen. He’s too big a name/well-known face and, yes, at 60 he’s too old(!!!). Though I wish his guest role was a bit more substantial than what he’s been given (OK it still might be a great role but I would rather he had been the main guest star of an episode)
> Though I wish his guest role was a bit more substantial than what he’s been given
Well, we don’t know how big the role will be in the episode. Also, one thing I’ve learned from dipping into some of the set reports is that a lot of characters seem to be turning up in all sorts of episodes.
If you look at it a certain way they’re almost suggesting he plays an older version of the 11th Doctor. That’s probably not the case but, on another note, I think that would be a brilliantly different way for an incarnation to go out, to see him physically age into an old man, emerge from the Tardis and it’s been something like 200 years of his time and nothing for us.
Never mind everyone freaking over what 10th Doctor did in those weeks/months between the end of Waters of Mars and going to the Ood Sphere. What if he’d had 200 years of off-screen adventures, maybe even all away from Earth?? An elderly 11th Doctor staggers from the Tardis into the arms of a young River Song. She’s in her teens, played by a different actress, this is the first time she meets him. He’s going to die, good and proper, no regen, not this time, it’s all over, he’s decided. He whispers his real name into River’s ear, always knowing that would be his last act before he died. These words carry his very life force into her, embodied with sweet timey-wimey goodness. She comes as the old man collapses in her arms. Fact.
Confirmed episode titles from DWM:
Ep1. The Eleventh Hour by Stephen Moffat
Ep2. The Beast Below by Stephen Moffat
Ep3. Victory of the Daleks by Mark Gatiss
Lovely stuff.
Victory of the Daleks is superb.
Indeed, presumably a nod to the time its set in.
I have to say I really like ‘The Eleventh Hour’ too. Nice touch.
I think we have the right to get VERY excited about the first half of this series. If it isn’t the best ever episodes 1-6 run, or at least the best since series 1, I will be most disappointed. I still believe Aliens of London/WW3 is the best first-half 2-parter so far. If I was forced to watch one of them right now it would be that. Honestly, I don’t care if I never see Rise of the Cybes/Age of Steel, Daleks In Manhattan or the Sontaran Strategem 2-parters EVER again!
>I still believe Aliens of London/WW3 is the best first-half 2-parter so far.
This is this: entirely correct.
Meh.
It’s not exactly tough competition is it? Y’know, on account of them all being shite. But I’d still say that’s third in the line. Daleks in Manhattan being the absolute nadir, and the other two being marginally better due to a lack of farting aliens.
I have really good memories of the Cyberman two-parter… but I only saw it once, when it was on. I remember Cappsy saying he loved it at first, and then it completely fell apart for him on a rewatch.
I don’t think anything would stop The Lion Sleeps Tonight bit being one of my favourite bits of New Who, though. Gloriously unpleasant for Saturday night viewing.
I really need to get the other boxsets. Still only got the first series, stupidly.
Series 2 is pretty bad apart from 3 or 4 episodes, though we should be thankful it wasn’t any worse. RTD had to reel off Tooth & Claw so quickly, iirc, and then we know he did plenty of saving on the Cybes 2-parter and The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit. Only Moffat had things in order, with The Girl In The Fireplace, which just made everything else look like the sub-par material it was.
Series 2 was terrible save for Moffat’s stuff and The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit. My least favourite series, overall.
The finale was great at the time, but in retrospect it doesn’t hold up quite as well (watched all of s2 recently on a run-through of the whole thing). Still some great moments, though.
I like the Eleventh Hour as a title. Especially if it’s set just after the end of The End Of Time. It makes a good double meaning. And victory of the daleks is great. Is the beast below the sea monsters one?
New New Series 2/Old New Series 6/Old Old Series 32/Doc 11 S2/2011 series news: Neil Gaiman’s confirmed he’s writing an episode for it.
Okay, since the post I made last night seems to be stuck in the mod queue, I’ll try posting without a link:
Neil Gaiman’s announced that he IS writing an episode of DW to air in 14 months time (i.e., the series after next).
Series 5 has got Chibnall. Series 6 has got Gaiman. Can we just have series 6 now, please?
With Russell gone, there has to be at least one Gaiman writing Doctor Who.
(Gay man.)
GAI AGENDA!!!!111
Will Stephen Fry ever write that episode we were promised all those years ago?
Will Stephen Fry ever write that episode we were promised all those years ago?
He said recently he’d like to, time and offer permitting.
Gay.
I’m going to miss out again: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/doctorwho/news/a203905/3d-doctor-who...
It’s your own fault for being German.
Well you’ll only miss it in 3D as by 7 tonight the trailer will no doubt be readily avalible on all manner of sites, and to be honest, seeing as they’ve added the effect afterwards and not designed it with 3D in mind from the start I doubt you’ll miss all that much.
Script extract up on Blogger Who from Vampires Of Venice. Slight charecter spoilers about Amy and Rory but nothing that hasn’t already been guessed elsewhere.
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2010/02/vampires-of-venice-script-excerpt...
The “trailer” was more like a teaser, really. We saw more of the series back in January. A bit of an odd way of doing things, but I liked it.
That was… ok. I can’t stretch to much more than that. I think the main thing that seemed odd to me was the music. Having seen it now though it probibly would benifit from being viewed in 3D afterall.
I thought it was very weak and more than a little bizarre.
I saw an article in the Daily Star* concerning the end of series finale.
Possible spoilers ahead:
Supposedly (emphasis on ‘supposedly’, bearing in mind the source) it’ll feature a big alien invasion featuring The Daleks, The Cybermen and The Sontarans.
(Ok, one quick search later, here is the article.)
I’m not sure how I feel about that if it’s true, particularly considering the big-build-up-quick-unsatisfying-resolution history New Who is known for. (I still remember that big cosmic vacuum cleaner from the time The Daleks and Cybermen were last at it. So to speak. Oo-er.)
*I’d like to add here that I don’t make a habit of reading that paper. It actually makes the Sun look classy! I’ve spent the last 3 weeks on a New Deal job-search course, and when all the computers are taken and the job-ads in the papers are perused… well, there’s lots of time to kill. That’s my excuse anyway. (I didn’t buy it. It was just there. Although there were no job ads inside. Lots of ‘sensual massage’ ads though.)
Edit- The news about new Torchwood online comic could be interesting though. I hope they do produce a proper series at some point though.
I believe there is some truth to the Sontarans and Daleks in the last 2 episodes (Briggs and Ryan were spotted I believe), however the story they suggest they feature in sounds very much like the Daily Star have been reading wild speculation on Galifrey Base.
Hmm. Fair is fair, that’s the first bit of Moffat-era that hasn’t excited me at all. I love the opening shot. It’s a bit Gregory’s Girl, well very Gregory’s girl. However the dialogue is bluergh, the ‘tunnel’ looks like CG from 10 years ago and the whole thing is a bit Sarah-Jane. Which of course is fine for Sarah Jane, but I want a bit more from Who.
> Daleks in Manhattan
I like the Dalek two-parter, albeit I appear to be the only one.
I like the Dalek two-parter, albeit I appear to be the only one.
I wouldn’t say that it’s disastrously bad. It’s hardly standout, but I certainly don’t think it’s the blight on the series that some seem to.
> I thought [the new trailer] was very weak and more than a little bizarre.
Agreed (and I’m very surprised to hear that putting it in 3D was an afterthought, to look at it).
One of the weakest points for me, compared to the equivalent trailers from previous series (“D’y wanna come with me?”, “Think you’ve seen it all?”, “I’m a Doctor/I’m The Doctor”, “There are things… waiting in the darkness.”) is the lack of a running dialogue. This thing’s ALL visual, and more than a bit random - you could have bunged the earlier trailers on the radio and basically have followed them. This one… not so much.
Yeah and it’s hard to care really about the close eye contact of characters we’ve not really met yet. But it had a good line. More excited by the first scene and the trailer at the end of the last episode though. So when is easter this year?
> So when is easter this year?
3rd April is episode 1, ‘The Eleventh Hour’, confirmed broadcast date.
Btw it’s highly likely there’ll be another more standard trailer around 2 weeks before then, though this crazy 3D one is probably our ‘do you wanna come with me?’ moment (I still love that trailer, in fact I want to see that series even though we already DID see it!).
We can glean from the trailer that there will be attraction of some kind between Amy and the Doctor. Frankly, it would just be weird if the Doctor didn’t fancy Amy to a certain degree. Gorgeous much. And Amy may well love the danger of the Doctor and his lifestyle, pulling her away from her fiance, Rory. They’re hardly gonna be frakking each other’s brains out, but having that tension there will be a huge plus point.
It’s your own fault for being German.
Well done Ian. ;p
Having seen the new teasretrailerthing I now know that I don’t need to see it in 3D.
Frankly, it would just be weird if the Doctor didn’t fancy Amy to a certain degree. Gorgeous much.
Yeah. That theme is getting a bit repetitive though. (Granted with Martha it was all a bit one-sided. And Donna wasn’t interested…)
It’d be quite funny if the Doctor fancied Amy but she wasn’t interested in him in the slighest.
Besides, rumours about Whithouse’s episode suggest she might be a bit too preoccupied for any of that sort of thing, anyway…
It doesn’t seem to be Moffat’s style to have a ‘fancying’ storyline with the Doctor and companion and as Chris said, that’s been done to death by now. Any romance involving the Doctor will surely be centred around him and River Song.
Well if I were Moffat I would be playing it as they do fancy each other but it can’t happen because Amy is getting married to Rory, who she really does love (unlike with Rose and Mickey) and also the Doctor has promised himself he’ll never be romantically involved with a companion ever again.
Bloody good thing you’re not Moffat, then.
New season 5 filming piccies courtesy of alun vega on flickr :):)
Admittedly not new who, but there’s not really anywhere appropriate on Unlimited Rice Pudding for it. Interesting for anyone that listens to Big Finish. From Tom’s website:
I have just accepted to do a Doctor Who adventure for BIG FINISH. I also hope that will lead to other scripts for them.
http://www.tom-baker.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=201
It should be pointed out though that Barnaby Edwards says he has heard nothing of this.
Cybermen return confirmed!! From the twitter updates from tonight’s press screening of ‘The Eleventh Hour’, where they seem to have thrown in a new series trailer for good measure! Also, it’s being reported the episode itself shows flashes of all 10 Doctors in a ‘Next Doctor’ type way. Damn this is the kind of thing I didn’t want to know even though I’m reading every spoiler going…
Bring them the heck on. Come on, Moffat, let’s see what you’ve got!!!
I have only seen the Chris Ecclestone episodes… but over the last couple weeks, I watched every episode of Torchwood and read The Writer’s Tale Final Chapter… so that gives me how long to watch every Tennant episode before the new one starts? Two weeks? Yikes…
Blogger Who have a clip up from the first episode. Having seen it, (with it being the first time we’ve really seen Matt performing properly in an episode rather than a speciallly made trailer or a montage,) i’m starting to see why Moffat was so taken with him.
Matt Smith is like a bloke in his fifties acting like a bloke in his twenties, rather than the other way round. Weird but interesting… still getting the Crispin Glover vibe.
> so that gives me how long to watch every Tennant episode before the new one starts? Two weeks? Yikes…
Pleeease don’t watch every episode, unless you want to experience a pretty depressing fortnight…
Just make sure you check out the good ones like The Girl In The Fireplace, The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, The Runaway Bride, Smith & Jones, Blink, Utopia, Silence In The Library/Forest of the Dead, Midnight etc.
> Pleeease don’t watch every episode, unless you want to experience a pretty depressing fortnight…
You are consistently wrong. Please stop doing that.
Well, most people told me Torchwood wasn’t worth bothering with (someone on here - can’t remember who - told me to skip series 1 and 2 and just watch Children of Earth!) but I’ve really enjoyed pretty much every episode…
and there wasn’t an episode of Ecclestone Who I didn’t like either…
so I guess I’ll be a glutton for punishment and watch them all.
Blimey. If you pretty much enjoyed every episode of Torchwood, you should defnitely try and squeeze in every episode of Tennant’s Doctor Who. You’ll proabably even enjoy Fear Her.
> You’ll proabably even enjoy Fear Her.
*shudder*
DoG did a spoiler-free review for episode 1 a short while ago.
They’re basic verdict seems to be, ‘good as an opener, but people expecting the tone to be drastically different from RTD’s Who will be disappointed’. (I’m not one of them by the way. I wasn’t keen on a lot of RTD’s plot resolutions, but I didn’t have that much problem with the overall tone. Apart from the hero worship stuff.)
I wouldn’t trust DoG too much, as they failed to notice the title sequence they describe as being similar to the old, is in fact the old one revamped a bit for use in the press screening, and we’re getting the proper one on broadcast.
They did mention that all the effects,etc, weren’t quite up to date.
And I was more interested in their view of the story really. Not that mine will necessarily be the same, but I think I’d be reasonably happy if it’s like what they described.
Den of Geek are a confederacy of dunces. As, by the way, are Digital Spy, who are doing stupid things like telling everybody that David Tennant has a cameo when it’s all the more likely he appears in a flashback or a “The Next Doctor”-esque recall moment.
Den of Geek are a confederacy of dunces. As, by the way, are Digital Spy, who are doing stupid things like telling everybody that David Tennant has a cameo when it’s all the more likely he appears in a flashback or a “The Next Doctor”-esque recall moment.
Digital Spy do however have this:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s7/doctor-who/news/a209692/the-second-w...
Marvellous.*
(*Or Moffat’s new one: ‘Gorgeous’)
> (someone on here - can’t remember who - told me to skip series 1 and 2 and just watch Children of Earth!) but I’ve really enjoyed pretty much every episode…
There are only a couple of Torchwood episodes that I really didn’t like as opposed to several more new Who ones. Children of Earth was probably the biggest thing RTD has been involved that wasn’t at least 50% a mess (TEOT I’m looking at you). Stuff like the Cybermen 2-parter, the Daleks 2-parter, The Doctor’s Daughter, 42, Fear Her, Last of the Time Lords, The Idiot’s Lantern - I never want to see those episodes EVER again. I can’t say that about any Torchwood.
Btw it’s worth noting that people are allowed to have opinions that differ. Last time I checked…
The only Torchwood episode that pissed me off - from the top of my head - was the fairies at the bottom of the garden. That’s the one that stands out… liked the rest.
Y’see, I think that’s the strongest episode of the first season. The worst episode of Torchwood is clearly “Cyberwoman”.
Nah, it’s the one where that weird thing happens in Cardiff.
Random Shoes is pretty much the worst thing ever broadcast.
Random Shoes has some good ideas in there, and for that I can forgive it.
> Random Shoes is pretty much the worst thing ever broadcast.
This. Well, there have obviously been worse things broadcast (Take Me Out with Paddy McGuiness…??), I’ve just turned them off.
>Random Shoes has some good ideas in there
The main one, of course, having been nicked from the far superior Love & Monsters.
Can’t speak for the rest of the episode - I barely remember most of it - but the ending of Random Shoes had me and Tanya jeering at the screen and then collapsing into hysterics.
Tardis interior revealed:
http://www.radiotimes.com/content/features/galleries/doctor-who-exclusiv...
And episode 7 is called Amy’s Choice apparently.
It’s crazily brilliant, evoking both classic (right back to Hartnell) and 2005-era console rooms, though I don’t know whether it has the same iconic feel that IMO the RTD one had. Well, if you think of the trailer shots of Chris and Billie standing in the Tardis it definitely felt iconic then. Matt and Karen seem a little out of place in this new console room. Obviously I’m being picky, but I wonder whether the original ‘pirate-y’ costume they had lined up for Matt was more suited to this interior.
Whatever, just look at the SIZE of it. And how many friggin stairs does a Time Lord need?? Maybe they took one look at Karen’s legs and though ‘yep, more stairs, oh and a glass floor…’ I can’t wait to get a closer look at the console itself and ofc the Time Rotor in action. Hope we see at least one other room this series. They can’t do that to us, put in two(?) doorways to other rooms and never show them.
It’s Saturday. Bring on the new era. :-) Cant wait.
I’ve been plodding my way through the RTD era over the past month or two. I really wanted to watch them all before the new series started but I had nowhere near enough spare time. So do I hold off on tonight’s episode until I’ve finished the RTD era? Or do I just watch it anyway?
I mean, I’m fairly confident it will be completely standalone and accessible to first-time viewers, therefore it is not likely to contain any spoilers or ruin my watching of the old episodes in any way at all… but it may just muddy the waters a little… I dunno…
I’ve been plodding my way through the RTD era over the past month or two. I really wanted to watch them all before the new series started but I had nowhere near enough spare time. So do I hold off on tonight’s episode until I’ve finished the RTD era? Or do I just watch it anyway?
I mean, I’m fairly confident it will be completely standalone and accessible to first-time viewers, therefore it is not likely to contain any spoilers or ruin my watching of the old episodes in any way at all… but it may just muddy the waters a little… I dunno…
Definately watch it. I seriously doubt it’ll affect your enjoyment of the rest of RTD at all. 10 minutes!!!!
Good luck, everybody, here it comes!
That was GREAT! Apart from the theme tune! Which needed to be faster. But everything else was great!
And Amy Pond all grown up, in a policewoman’s outfit.. I would wreck that.
I second your latter sentiment.
I really enjoyed that…and it looks as though it will only get better judging by the final montage of things to come. :D
Not entirely blown away by that. Quite a big change in style - which I liked, but that’s definitely the weakest Moffat story I’ve seen so far…
Hated the new theme tune, didn’t like the titles much.
Matt Smith, though… Well, he IS The Doctor.
4/5. It wasn’t as good as Smith and Jones but still pretty enjoyable. Did start to drag in the middle and the solution wasn’t as clever as they thought it was. Matt Smith was great.
Not sure about Amy Pond just yet. I knew she was going to be leaving something because of a spoilerific entry in a TV guide so I was a bit underwhelmed when I found it wasn’t a baby. Plus, I wasn’t a big fan of the last Runaway Bride we had on this show.
Oh and the new theme tune was really bad. And the Tardis appeared to be flying through a Fire and Smoke visualisation on Windows Media Player.
I actually liked the new theme and loved Amy Pond as a character…but then, I did remain spoiler free and missed the TV guide entry.
I was happy with that. Though I think they should have just started with the TARDIS crashing in the garden instead of the hanging shenanigans and the middle eight sounds like it’s gone from the closing theme.
Kissagrams and internet porn… erm…
I really enjoyed it. A fun ride, and I felt like I cared about the characters even though these are new actors etc. Loved all the food stuff and happy “funny is good” considering Moffat’s past writings, and the wall crack and the giant eye stuff I liked. I can forgive the story being fairly simple given all our attension is on a new dr, companions and even a new Tardis. I dont think it was a big change of style at all, even plenty of tennant style dr in it, still. Feels pretty continuational, style wise, give or take the big obvious people changes and new look titles/tardis. A few too many echoes of previous ideas I felt. Amys 3 ages were all a bit girl in the fireplace, and as mentioned a runaway bride has been done before, even the clothes stealing and rooftop spaceship standoffs felt like previous 1st dr episodes. Still looks like an enjoyable series to come. Needs to set up it’s own depths though, given time.
It was very good!
Though I think Mr Miles will find a few more things to add to his “Moffat Times Table”. :)
Complaints? Ummm… the “Cribs” thing in Confidential went on a bit too long?
Dr Who, Ashes to Ashes, Goldfinger on Radio 4, Jonathan Creek… almost as good a lineup as the stuff that was on last Easter weekend. ;)
EDIT:
> and the middle eight sounds like it’s gone from the closing theme.
I just checked iPlayer, and it wasn’t in the credits, but it’s there in the “Hear the new theme tune!” box at the bottom of this page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rs6t7
> Kissagrams and internet porn… erm…
Yet another example of The Moff’s heterosexual agenda.
I just checked iPlayer, and it wasn’t in the credits, but it’s there in the “Hear the new theme tune!” box at the bottom of this page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rs6t7
Spiffy. Thenkkew.
Hmm, at over 300 posts, I was expecting a new thread. Ah well.
I’m… not sure (well, I’m sure of one thing - the new theme tune is shit.) There were bits I cringed at - although a chunk of them were probably deliberate/due to the regeneration (in the scenes with the Doctor and “Amelia”, especially - though strangely enough, NOT due to the child actress, who presumably has a bright career ahead of her), although there was the Moffatism of having the aliens run away from the Big Bad Doctor at the end that’s already fairly trying, and will only become moreso if he continues in that vein.
Basically, “wait and see” for me.
>Hmm, at over 300 posts, I was expecting a new thread. Ah well.
You could quite easily have started one. Ah well.
The discussion on the episode was already going in this thread by the time I got here. Bad netiquette to try and split things that way.
I’m not sure how I feel about the new theme, but everything that came before and after it was spec-tah-coo-lah.
> I would wreck that.
Yep, in the words of Keith Lemon, ‘I would destroy you’! I mean, come on, she’s blummin’ amazing.
LOVE Matt as the Doctor. LOVE Karen as Amy. LOVE the child actress as Amelia (obviously not in the same way as I love Karen…). Almost like the theme and titles…they’ll grow on me.
The sort of fairytale nature of Amelia/Amy’s story is great and a nice change from the estates and suburban life we’ve had before. And this is obviously just the first chapter of that (the crack in the wall is on the Tardis screen at the end, though the Doctor doesn’t seem to notice it before he turns it off…). Don’t care much for the wedding aspect of it but, seeing as Rory seems way too much of a wet blanket for Amy to be with, I can’t see it happening. I think we can assume that the ‘Amy’s Choice’ episode will be about her choosing the path of getting married, having a baby and all that comes with that, OR going off with the Doctor on adventures unbound.
I give it 3/5 as an episode, 5/5 for the 11th Doctor and Amy (would be 4/5 but the scene with Annette Crosbie was priceless, ‘I thought you were a nurse.’ ‘I…can be a nurse…’ ‘or, actually, a nun…’ ‘I dabble!’)
Overall I liked it. But I think it tried a little too hard to make us fall in love with Doctor 11 and Amy Pond. Oh, they’re so cool and kooky and barmy…
Some of the moments where they noticeably made the pace punchier than usual and even interjected a little slapstick in places… I love Moffat as a comedy writer, but those moments fell a little flat for me unfortunately.
I thought the plot was ‘meh’, but I appreciate the amount of bigger-picture exposition and the episodes longer term goals were accomplished so that’s not my biggest issue with it. Story certainly wasn’t awful, but nothing great. Didn’t like the resolution particularly, with the mobile phone ultimately solving the issue (maybe that’s due to having watched Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel for the first time just last night with a comparable deus ex machina device).
I can’t understand why the theme tune has changed to such a drastic extent. It’s an iconic theme tune. It wasn’t broken, why fix it? I also thought the opening titles looked less visually impressive than the RTD era titles. A step backwards?
My kneejerk reaction was to say the new presentation (music, titles, font et al) sucked, but on reflection it’s just different, and if i was watching Who for the first time ever I wouldn’t have anything to compare it to and I’d probably not notice nor give a damn either way about the semantics.
There’s nothing about it that turned me off to watching more. Smith grated me terribly during his brief End of Time cameo, but he was far more enjoyable here. I can think of far worse things to be doing of a Saturday evening than watching Karen Gillan. To be fair, The Eleventh Hour has kept me interested in a show I only personally discovered a couple of months ago when I finally gave in to the hyperbole. Now I can continue to play catch up with the back catalogue content in the knowledge that the show is still churning out new stuff that is interesting and fun… I just hope (and assume) that after getting the set-up episode out of the way, we’re in for some really good stories.
I just hope they tone down the “look how bonkers they are” stuff in future episodes.
I just watched it. I loved it, I love him, I love her, I love it all!
Therefore all debate is over and I claim victory.
>And this is obviously just the first chapter of that (the crack in the wall is on the Tardis screen at the end, though the Doctor doesn’t seem to notice it before he turns it off…).
Surely he turned it off to stop Amy noticing it?
I stand corrected about Smith not being a great Doctor. I agree with Carl, though - the “ooh look how kooky we are” thing was a bit cringeworthy. Some of the slapstick was a bit unnecessary. Very “Girl in the Fireplace” but the obvious plotline was still nice… yeah, another (redheaded) runaway bride, another boyfriend left behind (although I doubt Rory will be as cool a jilted boyfriend as Mickey turned out to be)… ah well, if it’s all completely different people complain, if they re-use old stories people complain… let’s just enjoy the new Who era. It’s going to be brilliant!!
> Surely he turned it off to stop Amy noticing it?
I get the distinct impression that the Doctor did notice it, and he’s making a sort-of mental catalogue of such cracks following the Multiform’s criticism of his ignorance on the matter.
Anyway: “The Eleventh Hour” was as perfect a piece of Saturday evening telly as one could expect, and if this is the shape of things to come then bring on the shape. Things are going to be very shapely indeed.
Just watched The Eleventh Hour, picture quality was amazing, love the new designs, Doctor’s garb is quite fitting. The only thing that bothered me, something that Davies did ad nauseum was the comedy, I was hoping it would be toned down with the Moffat era. Nice introduction to Smith, although I could hear echoes of Tennant in his voice. Title sequence isn’t anything breathtaking, I was hoping for a Smith’s face in there but alas no. Amelia Pond was excellent, good chemistry and I love how she is Scottish. Her boyfriend on the other hand didn’t really stand out, hopefully he’ll make it to Micky status and get his teeth into the part. All and all, it feels like a worthy start to the Moffat era.
Carl said…
deus ex machina
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong…
-
I, too, could just say “you’re wrong” and not expand on it…
You don’t even mention whether you believe I’m wrong about Age of Steel or 11th Hour. In Steel it literally came out of nowhere. Alls I said was 11th Hour used a similar device (phone saves the day) which would naturally look a bit tired to me - not everyone, just me - having literaly seen Steel for the first time the day before.
>You don’t even mention whether you believe I’m wrong about Age of Steel or 11th Hour.
Probably best you check the other threads, Carl. This has been discussed ad nauseum.
I liked it.
Smith And Jones > Rose > The Eleventh Hour > New Earth > Partners In Crime
or
Spearhead From Space > The Christmas Invasion > Rose > The Eleventh Hour > Castrovalva > Power Of The Daleks > Robot > 100,000 BC > TV Movie > Time And The Rani > The Twin Dilemma
Yes… that did cross my mind when I saw it on Confidential. ;)
Smith and Jones > The Eleventh Hour > New Earth > Rose > Partners in Crime
It wasn’t Deus ex machina because, simply, it wasn’t a resolution that just came out of nowhere.
Phones and the internet are by their very nature broadcast media (mediums?). And that’s all the Doctor really did, create a virus to broadcast the prisoner’s identity for the aliens to trace to source. The fact that the Doctor was able to create such a virus in a few seconds stretched credibility though. Even for a genius who knew exactly what to do, it would take much more time just to physically type the code but, time constraints aside*, the solution was believable and produced from established things in the characters, environment and story. So not Deus ex.
If they had just stumbled on an alien broadcast device at the right moment that would be Deus ex Machina. (I think I got that right.)
Anyway, I largely liked the story. I’d have preferred the alien broadcast not to have been world-wide. I prefer my present day threats in to be stuff known only to the main characters, but that’s a personal preference.
I disliked the theme tune.
I’m ashamed to admit, I didn’t notice the Tardis screen crack, although it vaguely rings a bell. (I.e. I likely saw it but my mind didn’t register.)
Overall a great opening episode.
*Actually, if the Doctor was using component model development I could just about believe it. I.e. the code could already be written it’s just a matter of slotting it all together. He’s on the internet and it’s quite likely a geek of geeks such as he is, would have access to code sites, even an upload to his Tardis where he could get those various components. It would still take longer, than it appeared but… then it probably did take longer than it appeared in their fiction time, it being a 1 hour snapshot, etc.
The Eleventh Hour > Rose > Smith & Jones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> …
>>>>> Partners in Crime.
>>>>>> New Earth.
> It wasn’t Deus ex machina because, simply, it wasn’t a resolution that just came out of nowhere.
Phones and the internet are by their very nature broadcast media (mediums?). And that’s all the Doctor really did, create a virus to broadcast the prisoner’s identity for the aliens to trace to source. The fact that the Doctor was able to create such a virus in a few seconds stretched credibility though. Even for a genius who knew exactly what to do, it would take much more time just to physically type the code but, time constraints aside*, the solution was believable and produced from established things in the characters, environment and story. So not Deus ex.
If they had just stumbled on an alien broadcast device at the right moment that would be Deus ex Machina. (I think I got that right.)
-
Okay, the “deus ex machina” reference referred to Age of Steel. I just meant that the resolution to 11th Hour evoked the solution used (mobile phone saves the day), not that it was also deus ex machina, although it did, as you say, stretch credibility. I probably worded it badly looking back.
Rose > The Eleventh Hour > Smith and Jones > New Earth > Partners in Crime
I rate Rose very highly. TEH - Christ that’s an unfortunate acronym - almost equalled it.
Prisoner Zero has escaped. Welcome to Justice World. (currently run by Group4)
Having now watched it twice, it’s nothing short of astounding. Both Gillan and Smith are tremendous. Tennant Who suddenly seems so, so long ago.
It would have been nice to know what Prisoner Zero had been imprisoned for and who the Atraxi were.
Not strictly speaking necessary though, is it? We don’t know lots about huge swathes of the Doctor Who universe, it doesn’t diminish from the story any.
I get the distinct impression that the Doctor did notice it, and he’s making a sort-of mental catalogue of such cracks following the Multiform’s criticism of his ignorance on the matter.
In addition to the shot of the monitor in the episode itself, in the “Tardis Tour” video on the website you can see that when the set designer shows off the monitor, the crack pattern stretches all across the screen (rather than just appearing within the oscilloscope bit):
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5396/tardistourmonitor.jpg
Karl / Fri, 2010-01-01 20:59
Right then Season whatever, series whatever. RTD and Tennant out, Moffat and Smith in.
We start with this…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/newyear/
…and feast like the spoiler-feltching discussants that we are.
Thoughts:
Number 11 has an absolutely brilliant face.
He appears to have an ace fondness for hitting things.
The angels are back and based on their numbers and appearance it looks like it’s the same ones.