best and worst of the rd novels ??

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  • #2775

    NitroChrisUK

    i have only recently got round to buying last human and read that in a few hours .. off to get the rest today( if i can find them ) was just wondering what everyone thought was there personal favourate and least favourate of the books ..and from reading last human .. i assume it dosent fit in with the seies continuity ..?.. i feel so dumb :(

    #89674

    SoundableObject

    My favourite is ‘Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers’ with ‘Backwards’ in second and ‘Better Than Life’ in third, ‘Last Human’ is in last, not to say I don’t like ‘Last Human’, I love it. All four books are brilliant and live up to the series.

    #89675

    Paul Muller

    I love IWCD, but I’m not too keen on Last Human. Backwards is awesome, as is BTL.

    *Generic comment mode*

    #89677

    Jonathan Capps

    G&T Admin

    > i assume it dosent fit in with the seies continuity ..?.. i feel so dumb :(

    Both Backwards (by Rob Grant) and Last Human (by Doug Naylor) are classed as continuations from Better Than Life.

    For me, Infinity and Better than Life are equal top, with Backwards next and Last Human last.

    #89678

    NitroChrisUK

    only read last human so far and it seemed……a bit ott .. even for red dwarf still enjoyed it and shall read again just seemed very far remooved from the red dwarf im used to

    #89679

    SoundableObject

    Try ‘Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers’ next, it is closer to the TV show than any other, atleast the first few chapters. The last chapter though unlike Red Dwarf is bloody brilliant, I loved every bit of that book.

    #89680

    Seb Patrick

    I treat IWCD and BTL as one book, pretty much – although if push came to shove BTL just edges it.

    Neither solo book is as good as the first two, but Backwards is the better one for me. That said, I’ve grown to like Last Human more as time’s gone on. You just have to appreciate that it’s not like the others in any way.

    More from me on all this, anyway : http://www.ganymede.tv/indepth/infinity-welcomes-better-than-backwards-last-humans

    #89681

    p2p_productions

    Yeah, love IWCD. Last Human is a close second for me, personally. BTL, third. Tried reading Backwards, but I just couldn’t wrap me head ’round it.

    #89682

    SoundableObject

    I prefer listining to the audios really. Chris Barrie brings the first two books to life. Craig Charles has a much harder job with the slobbering GELF filled ‘Last Human’ but still does a fantastic job. Rob Grant does a weird Ace Rimmer.

    #89683

    NitroChrisUK

    they should write some more books i guess it would only be doug who would want to do that.. im sure they would be popular ..and pesonally if the movie never ends up on the screen why not release it as a book.

    #89684

    ChrisM

    I’m not sure I have a favourite.

    If I had to pick a favourite from the single author sequels, I think Last Human might edge it. I liked how they expanded the universe with the various gelf species.

    I’m not too sure of the ending of Backwards, (it was a brave way to go though) but I liked the fact it returned to the Backwards Earth and the agonoids were interesting baddies. (Why didn’t Rob Grant just stick with the word ‘simulants’ I wonder?) The rules of the Backwards earth also worked a lot better than the episode of that name.

    Hmmm. This is the one book I don’t own, so I might try to grab it sometime.

    #89685

    SoundableObject

    Wasn’t the Red Dwarf Film part based on ‘Backwards’, I’m sure it was set to include simulants. For me ‘Backwards’ is a bit confusing, it keeps veering of onto other directions and dimensions! In the end it is rewarding to keep reading though.

    #89686

    Pete Part Three

    >Wasn?t the Red Dwarf Film part based on ?Backwards?

    Probably not, since Backwards was written by Rob Grant and the film was written by Doug Naylor.

    Infinity is tops for me. The pre-accident stuff (specifically Rimmer taking his exams and Lister meeting Kochanski/ getting bored) is awesome. Better than Life is similarly great. I remember loving the Trixie La Bouche reveal (ooh er missus).

    Backwards in at third (some overly sadistic stuff that I could do without).

    At the bottom of the pile; Last Human. It doesn’t feel like Red Dwarf to me.

    #89687

    SoundableObject

    >Probably not, since Backwards was written by Rob Grant and the film was written by Doug Naylor.

    Yes put the synopsis of the Film is very similar to the latter part of ‘Backwards’, rogue simulants attack the last known human ship, Red Dwarf.

    #89688

    Andrew

    > Yes put the synopsis of the Film is very similar to the latter part of ?Backwards?, rogue simulants attack the last known human ship, Red Dwarf.

    Well, it said ‘homo sapienoids’, not simulants (called ‘agonoids’ in Backwards) – assuming both are the same thing is something that’s come strictly from the fan side.

    Likewise, ‘mechanical guys attack last human’ is hardly a definitive description of the Backwards story, since only one actually gets near Lister and most of the book is mostly about other things…including the events the title refers to. The agonoid stuff is cutaway fun, but our heroes never join the population aboard Red Dwarf.

    Regardless, the film was unlikely to ‘just’ it’s one-line description; ‘regular dude battles SF bad guys’ may be the plot of Star Wars, but it’s not ALL the plot of Star Wars, nor JUST the plot of Star Wars, since it’s also the plot of bazillion other movies.

    #89689

    SoundableObject

    Well ‘Backwards’ is more like three books in one, you have the ‘Backwards’ part of it, the alternative universe with Ace and the aganoids section. The backwards segmant was only a third of the book in the end, maybe a little more.
    I always thought the Red Dwarf film was a mix of ‘Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers’ and the later part of ‘Backwards’ with the aganoids. Establish the setting and get Kryten on board then fight some simulants.

    #89692

    Seb Patrick

    I always thought the Red Dwarf film was a mix of ?Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers? and the later part of ?Backwards? with the aganoids. Establish the setting and get Kryten on board then fight some simulants.

    Ooh, where did you get your copy of the script? Can we get a scan?

    #89693

    Andrew

    > The backwards segmant was only a third of the book in the end, maybe a little more.

    About two-fifths I’d have said. But either way that’s more than the agonoids sections – which, for the most part, the main characters aren’t even in.

    > I always thought the Red Dwarf film was a mix of ?Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers? and the later part of ?Backwards? with the aganoids

    And you certainly seem unshakable in that conviction!

    #89694

    SoundableObject

    Well I heard that the Red Dwarf Movie was a new start like the books, it would need to establish characters and they would have to pick up Kryten. I was not very happy about the new start, I prefer continuing the story instead of starting another.

    #89695

    Andrew

    I’m sorry for your disappointment.

    But it’s still sod all like the Backwards novel.

    #89696

    SoundableObject

    Ok, I’m sorry. I have not seen a script, just a poster from years ago depicting Red Dwarf blowing up.
    I wonder if the film script will ever get released as a book some day, I doubt a film will be made now, now the specials are coming I can lose all hope of the film.

    #89698

    Pete Part Three
    #89702

    ChrisM

    > Yes put the synopsis of the Film is very similar to the latter part of ?Backwards?, rogue simulants attack the last known human ship, Red Dwarf.

    Well, it said ?homo sapienoids?, not simulants (called ?agonoids? in Backwards) – assuming both are the same thing is something that?s come strictly from the fan side.

    Yeah, I remember the film blurb describing the sapienoids as being “the next step in human evolution incorporating human and machine” (something like that anyway.) That could be interpreted different ways, but I took that to mean they were essentially humans with cybernetic implants and body parts. I.e. cyborgs in the traditional sense (like the borg or cybermen although according to the artwork they’re a lot more sexy looking) rather than robots with flesh bits, which seems to be what simulants and agonoids are. (I.e. like the T-800 terminator, but with… issues. ;) )

    Don’t mind me I’m fascinated by this stuff.

    If the film never takes off, it’d be great to see some of this material, be it script or further series.

    #89703

    Mr Flibble

    Firstly, the first two books are by far and away the best. They work beautifully together as well. Backwards is third – I do love Backwards, but Rob Grant does go a little OTT on the torture business. Other than that though – I like it. Last Human is… OK. But it’s weird. And not really Red Dwarf, I don’t feel.

    Secondly – wasn’t Backwards at least planned by Rob and Doug before the split?

    Thirdly, Seb – your article is great. I agree with every point.

    #89706

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Secondly – wasn?t Backwards at least planned by Rob and Doug before the split?

    They were working on a book together called The Last Human (note the vital definite article) before the split, but it’s unknown as to how much of the book was written, and as to whether any elements other than the title went into their respective solo efforts.

    #89707

    SoundableObject

    http://www.ganymede-titan.info/docs/moviefaq.php#plot
    “Oddly, this sounds rather like the Aganoids section of the Rob-Grant-only Red Dwarf novel Backwards.”
    Hmm.

    #89708

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    And?

    #89709

    Ben Paddon

    I’ve always viewed IWCD and BTL as one book, probably because I first read them in the omnibus edition. They’re definitely the best of the four books. I think Backwards just slightly edges out Last Human, but I can’t quite put my finger on why. I think it may be that sometimes the narrative in LH reads more like stage direction than… well, than narrative.

    #89711

    Jonathan Capps

    G&T Admin

    I find that the main reason I prefer Backwards to Last Human is Rob Grant appears to be far, far better at writing Rimmer.

    #89712

    Mr Flibble

    They were working on a book together called The Last Human (note the vital definite article) before the split, but it?s unknown as to how much of the book was written, and as to whether any elements other than the title went into their respective solo efforts.

    Ah, OK. I thought I had read some proof that Backwards was largely from that book they started.

    #89714

    Andrew

    Nah. The story ideas they were working on together – which I don’t think made it to any kind of fully-built outline, much less the beginnings of the prose – don’t heavily feature in either solo novel.

    #89716

    Mr Flibble

    One day, perhaps when he’s 80, Doug will write a book containing all these things like plots that never made it, however undeveloped, an audio CD containing commentaries of all the Dwarf episodes where Doug points out things he thinks are uninteresting, and a collection of other titbits.

    It will be called “I didn’t know anybody would find it interesting” after the reason Doug gave for not doing commentaries in the first place. Everyone here on G&T, which at that point will only have 2 seasons worth of DwarfCast commentaries left to do, will be able to use the rest of their lives discussing these exciting morsels of information and thinking what could have been.

    (And yes, I know there are myriad legal reasons why this will never happen)

    #89718

    Seb Patrick

    >Thirdly, Seb – your article is great. I agree with every point.

    Thirk.

    #89723

    locusceruleus

    I love Infinity and BTL. Last Human, not particularly, and Backwards, not in the least.

    #89725

    JohnnyW

    I recently re-read that last two books (the first two are definitely pure Red Dwarf).

    http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.com/2007/10/retro-review-red-dwarf-individual.html

    In short: Backwards is smart and funny, whereas Last Human was despicably awful.

    #89754

    ChrisM

    >Last Human was despicably awful.

    It really wasn’t.

    Comparably bad, possibly. (Although I liked it.)

    #89798

    JohnnyW

    I remember laughing and enjoying it as I read it the first time (when it first came out), but I tried to read it again recently and well, here’s what I wrote about my experience:

    I made it 50 pages into Last Human, and I literally can?t take it any more… It?s funny, don?t misunderstand me, there?s some brilliant lines, but it just feels wrong. Like a car engine in dire need of a mechanic, it somehow keeps on moving, but it really doesn?t sound right and you feel like you shouldn’t be driving it.

    For starters, Naylor clearly has no issues with messing with the entire Red Dwarf canon. Rimmer’s inferiority complex about his more successful brothers all stem around the fact he didn’t get a memory implant when he was a boy?? Grant explored this neuroses and turned it into the core of his entire book and something emotionally satisfying we could all relate to, but Doug quickly explains it away in an unemotional and illogical sentence.

    There?s also an astonishing amount of pseudo-science that, not only doesn?t hold up to even the tiniest bit of scrutiny, but also disregards everything we know about the Red Dwarf universe. Random scientific sounding bits and bobs that are tossed into the story and dialogue without explanation. All of a sudden even the Cat is an astrophysicist. Things like ?unused time lines? (how can a parallel universe be considered “unused”?) or the fact that Starbug has a ?Hubble telescope? installed (come on) are just horrible.

    I guess Doug would argue that it?s all about entertaining readers, and most people aren’t going to know scientific theory and don’t care about technology (so long as it sounds ok), they just want a laugh.

    While I can definitely say the Last Human tries very hard to tickle your rib bones (and succeeds very often, too), I have to ask; if you’re going to do the science-fiction without the science, why bother?

    ———–

    True, I was a bit unnecessarily harsh with “despicably awful”, but it still wasn’t very good.

    #89803

    ChrisM

    Fair enough. ;)

    Rimmer?s inferiority complex about his more successful brothers all stem around the fact he didn?t get a memory implant when he was a boy??

    It’s been a while since I’ve read it all through but wasn’t that just another example of Rimmer making excuses for the way his life has turned out rather than being the actual reason?

    As for the Science stuff, yeah it’s likely mostly bogus but a lot of science fiction is based on making up stuff concerning the universe. Is it possible to warp space time like in Star Trek? Or enter a dimension called Hyperspace where everything is conveniently closer together so you can conveniently cover interstellar distances within a few days? Probably not, but they’re interesting storytelling devices.

    #89884

    Pete Part Three

    >It?s been a while since I?ve read it all through but wasn?t that just another example of Rimmer making excuses for the way his life has turned out rather than being the actual reason?

    No.

    It was two books and 36 episodes of characterisation ruined in a paragraph.

    #89886

    ChrisM

    >It was two books and 36 episodes of characterisation ruined in a paragraph.

    Only if you allow it to.

    #89888

    Pete Part Three

    Note that I said it was the characterisation that was ruined, not the books or the episodes. And I don’t allow it to, because I think it was such a gigantic mis-step that I don’t consider it canonical part of Rimmer.

    A large part of Rimmer’s character is that he’s a failure who blames his hang-ups on his parents. The sudden (and unnecessary) revelation that this is entirely justified and not a irrational excuse, is completely unwelcome. What does it add to the character? Fuck all. What does it take from the character? A lot.

    #89889

    Phil

    Can I just pop in to say I don’t really like the novels? I’ve only read the first two (I THINK the other two were unavailable in the US…that may have changed…) but the material seems to fall into two categories:

    a) great stuff that was invented/detailed just for the books
    and
    b) extended sequences that are much more fun to watch on TV than to read about

    If there were a lot more of a and a lot less of b, I’d have enjoyed them more. Clearly I’m in the minority. And on top of that, I’m used to my opinions not being the correct ones. But there you go.

    #89891

    Seb Patrick

    >If there were a lot more of a and a lot less of b, I?d have enjoyed them more.

    Erm, pretty much the entirety of the second book is made up of “a”, you big fool.

    #89892

    hummingbird

    >Can I just pop in to say I don?t really like the novels? I?ve only read the first two …. but the material seems to fall into two categories …….

    I’m the same. I’ve only read the first two, and I think they’re OK, but unremarkable.
    I’d much rather watch the shows.

    #89893

    Mr Flibble

    Is it possible to warp space time like in Star Trek? Or enter a dimension called Hyperspace where everything is conveniently closer together so you can conveniently cover interstellar distances within a few days? Probably not, but they?re interesting storytelling devices.

    I still much prefer the Futurama idea of just ignoring all that and making things up when they fit the story and to hell with the continuity.

    #89895

    Phil

    >you big fool.

    !!!

    Actually, you’re probably right. It’s been a while since I’ve read them, so I could be remembering incorrectly. Also the black/white hole stuff was new for all you guys because you read the book before the material was reworked into an episode. Since I read it long after seeing the episode–and since I was accustomed to so much being borrowed from the show for the novels–it didn’t click with me that this was “new” material at the time.

    Still, that’s sort of the taste left in my mouth by the books. I always thought I’d enjoy the second two books more because, from what I understand, they’re mad up of much more non-TV material. But I couldn’t get them at the time (I may not have even had the internet then, mind you). Maybe I’ll try to grab some copies in the near future and see if I enjoy them more.

    #89899

    ChrisM

    A large part of Rimmer?s character is that he?s a failure who blames his hang-ups on his parents. The sudden (and unnecessary) revelation that this is entirely justified and not a irrational excuse, is completely unwelcome.

    The thing is though, although the implant certainly gives a person a major advantage, it is just another tool. A tool many successful officers did without and got to with graft.

    Sure, Rimmer could still work his butt off and not succeed. On that other hand he just might. He might never be as high ranking as his privileged brothers but he could still end up an officer. Unfortunately, although it’s the thing he most wants in the world, he really doesn’t have any interest in the subject matter he is studying, hence all the rotas and bar-charts, etc. Working hard at not working. And what does he do? He blames his parents. He feels sorry for himself. And the lack of an implant is just another excuse to add to all the others.

    The interesting thing is, when it really counts, when he is (spoiler territory) faced with someone who is the archetype of what he would like to be, who even saw him as the hero, he actually does better himself in the end. He doesn’t become an officer but in the end that’s not what’s important.

    #89908

    locusceruleus

    >And I don?t allow it to, because I think it was such a gigantic mis-step that I don?t consider it canonical part of Rimmer.

    I wouldn’t consider the novels canon at all.

    >Erm, pretty much the entirety of the second book is made up of ?a?, you big fool.

    I remember thinking all the Bedford Falls and Juanita stuff was pretty great.

    #89910

    Jonathan Capps

    G&T Admin

    > I wouldn?t consider the novels canon at all.

    They are canon, just their own separate canon. Which forks off into two other canons.

    But, yeah, there’s never been ANY doubt that the novels continuity is entirely separate to the show’s.

    #89913

    NitroChrisUK

    with 10 years gap between only the good and back to earth theres lots of room to wrte a book or 2 to chronicle the events inbetween ..or should any new novels continue in there own continuity ?

    #89929

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Phil! You. All four novels. Re-evaluation. Article series. G&T. NOW!

    #89938

    Phil

    Hmm…you just might be able to twist my arm for that. I’ll check around for prices on Backwards and Last Human.

    #89941

    Seb Patrick

    http://www.abebooks.com/

    A dollar, Phil. ONE MEASLY, STINKIN’ DOLLAR.

    #89943

    Phil

    Well…I was planning on depositing that dollar in the bank…

    But what the hell. You only live once, right?

    EDIT: After shipping I’ll end up spending about what I would at Amazon for a non-used copy. Rats. I’ll order them soonish, though.

    #90064

    JohnnyW

    The thing is though, although the implant certainly gives a person a major advantage, it is just another tool. A tool many successful officers did without and got to with graft.

    Sure, Rimmer could still work his butt off and not succeed. On that other hand he just might. He might never be as high ranking as his privileged brothers but he could still end up an officer. Unfortunately, although it?s the thing he most wants in the world, he really doesn?t have any interest in the subject matter he is studying, hence all the rotas and bar-charts, etc. Working hard at not working. And what does he do? He blames his parents. He feels sorry for himself. And the lack of an implant is just another excuse to add to all the others.

    The interesting thing is, when it really counts, when he is (spoiler territory) faced with someone who is the archetype of what he would like to be, who even saw him as the hero, he actually does better himself in the end. He doesn?t become an officer but in the end that?s not what?s important.

    What the hell are you talking about? Just go an re-read the book instead of arguing with people who have it fresh in their memory. Do I have to type it out for you?

    #90072

    Phil

    Um, yeah. Because everyone on G+T is an expert about all the things they choose to discuss.

    #90076

    Seb Patrick

    What the hell are you talking about? Just go an re-read the book instead of arguing with people who have it fresh in their memory. Do I have to type it out for you?

    I think the more pertinent question is what the hell are you talking about? I can’t see a huge amount wrong with what Chris said. Or, if you disagree with it, that doesn’t mean that he’s a fucking idiot who isn’t allowed to talk about the book.

    Seriously, instead of just saying “Go and re-read the book”, why not try articulating why you disagree?

    #90091

    Seb Patrick

    Also, I don’t think you count as “people who have it fresh in their memory” when you stopped after 50 pages.

    #90135

    Phil

    In other words, try not to be an unnecessarily raging dick when you haven’t been provoked.

    #90144

    ChrisM

    Thanks for the support guys. I probably got a bit carried away with my little essay I think.

    Johnny W, please don’t take it as an argument though, just a discussion. (And it’s just a book, i.e. entertainment, after all.)

    You saw the implant as contradicting Rimmer’s other issues that went on before.

    I just see it as another excuse he falls back on, therefore meaning all his other issues are still alive and partying. Other officers (Kochanski for example) succeeded without implants after all (although no doubt those things are a BIG help.)

    Just another angle that’s all.

    Anyhow, peace! Let’s move on…

    I hope we get some more RD literature in future! Who knows what the recent RD revival with the specials etc, will open up.

    #90310

    Tarka Dal

    >In short: Backwards is smart and funny, whereas Last Human was despicably awful.

    I’m sorry but this is absolute bollocks. Last Human is far, far from awful. Backwards has the bigger laughs granted, but Last Human is a decently crafted sci-fi novel. It doesn’t read in the same style as the first two and that was a deliberate choice by Doug.

    Backwards may be more in keeping with the comedy of Dwarf and the first two novels, but it also lingers on some sections of the story for far too bloody long.

    #90890

    Anonymous

    It’s been years since I read the books but I really enjoyed IWCD and BTL. I had the omnibus edition (which some tosser borrowed and fucked off without returning it) and it really did read like one book. I loved the back stories for Rimmer and Lister, the explanation about holograms and Trixie!

    Last Human I still have and didn’t enjoy – I need to revisit that one before further comment. Backwards I haven’t read. Looks like I need to order it and a replacement omnibus and get some reading done.

    #90891

    SoundableObject

    Re-reading IWCD right now, I find Rimmer’s death much more tragic than in the show, in the book he is finally learning how to revise well, if his revision time-table wasn’t fucked up I think he could have passed the astro-navigation exam.

    Yesterday I was up to the future echoes section of the book and slapped on Series 1 in the background, at the bit where Holly said something to Lister about plugging in the thing into the drive console I read the line out of the book.

    #90893

    Pete Part Three

    >in the book he is finally learning how to revise well, if his revision time-table wasn?t fucked up I think he could have passed the astro-navigation exam.

    Eh?

    #90894

    SoundableObject

    In teh book it says he started to revise 3-4 hours a day and use the rest of his spare time not existing (stasis). He made the revision time-table in a few hours, he made a mistake on the time-table putting two septembers meaning he missed the exam, if he didn’t make that mistake I think he could have passed the exam, he was revising in a smart way.

    #90928

    Mr Flibble

    Except…

    The exam is a month earlier than he thinks it is.

    August, September, September, October, November

    Exam is on October 27th.
    Rimmer thinks it’s November 27th. Because he included two Septembers.

    So let’s get rid of the two Septembers:

    August, September, October, November, December

    Ah.

    That suggests Rimmer really thinks it’s on December 27th?

    In order to make the cockup he did, there needs to be a month *missing*.

    Ah well, only 20 years late.

    #90931

    Dave

    >That suggests Rimmer really thinks it?s on December 27th?

    There’s a retake on Geldof 27th

    #90940

    Seb Patrick

    No, it’s never made sense to me, either.

    #90979

    Blisschick

    I’m glad I saw this post, because I just purchased all four books on Amazon last night since they’re not to be found in any bookstore anywhere around me. I was told by Barns & Noble they’re out of print. (I don’t know how true that actually is.) It was a toss-up between the first two or the Omnibus, so I figured I’d get the two originals and get the other later and compare the two. Any thoughts on that?

    >ONE MEASLY, STINKIN? DOLLAR.

    And I’m the guilty party that bought it. A couple of them, actually. I’d prefer new, but since I just bought the Series VIII DVDs brand new the other day for the price of my firstborn, I’m having to go cheap. (YAY! I even got the collector’s cards!)

    >I prefer listining to the audios really. Chris Barrie brings the first two books to life. Craig Charles has a much harder job with the slobbering GELF filled ?Last Human? but still does a fantastic job. Rob Grant does a weird Ace Rimmer.

    I’ve been listening to them…I think I’m still at the beginning of Backwards somewheres. IMO, Rob Grant is okaaaay, a lot easier to listen to than Craig Charles even though he lacks the ability to really personalize the characters. I absolutely love listening to Chris Barrie and his eerie, dead-on impersonations. I think he sounds more like Kryten than Kryten sometimes! (I’m also biased because I think he has a sexy voice…it’s a girl thang.)

    ;-)

    #90982

    Ben Paddon

    Girls in Red Dwarf fandom, I have noticed, seem to have a thing for Rimmer generally. I think it’s probably all down to some deep desire to “fix” him.

    #90983

    Blisschick

    >Girls in Red Dwarf fandom, I have noticed, seem to have a thing for Rimmer generally. I think it?s probably all down to some deep desire to ?fix? him.

    Probably you’re right. Most of us are hardwired to be nurturing and maternal. It’s just hard not to feel sorry for him. In the real world, though, I’d be telling someone like him to suck it up and move on and probably would’ve thought he was a real creep.

    #91012

    ChrisM

    I?m glad I saw this post, because I just purchased all four books on Amazon last night since they?re not to be found in any bookstore anywhere around me. I was told by Barns & Noble they?re out of print. (I don?t know how true that actually is.) It was a toss-up between the first two or the Omnibus, so I figured I?d get the two originals and get the other later and compare the two. Any thoughts on that?

    If you’ve bought the first two, I’m not sure there is a whole lot of point in getting the omnibus later as you’re mainly buying the same material. Unless you’re a collector of course.

    That being said, I think there are a couple of goodies at the back of the omnibus that might not be in the other two books (but check first, by all means.) One is a script for The End (or part of it anyway.) and the beer mat in which they scribbled ideas for the show.

    #91014

    Pete Part Three

    As long as you know who Kevin Keegan is, you’ll be fine.

    #91026

    Seb Patrick

    Originals >> Omnibus

    #91030

    hummingbird

    > Girls in Red Dwarf fandom, I have noticed, seem to have a thing for Rimmer generally. I think it?s probably all down to some deep desire to ?fix? him.

    Personally, no.

    Maybe it’s just the sort of girls you hang out with, Seb.

    #91039

    Blisschick

    >As long as you know who Kevin Keegan is, you?ll be fine.

    I’m in trouble then.

    *off to Google Kevin Keegan*

    #91040

    Danny Stephenson

    G&T Admin

    Originals >> Omnibus

    Why do you say that, Seb?

    #91047

    SoundableObject

    Am I right in thinking that the omnibus are like a re-mastered version of the original novels. I have the omnibus right now because I lent the original IWCD to a friend and he has still not gave it back, in the end I wanted to read it and so bought it again, it was only ?5 and I got BTL with it in the omnibus.

    #91048

    locusceruleus

    >Girls in Red Dwarf fandom, I have noticed, seem to have a thing for Rimmer generally. I think it?s probably all down to some deep desire to ?fix? him.

    That’s almost frighteningly astute.

    #91053

    Jonathan Capps

    G&T Admin

    > Am I right in thinking that the omnibus are like a re-mastered version of the original novels.

    I never was a fan of the new CG words.

    #91058

    Pete Part Three

    Worse bit in Omnibus?

    “Lister’s Window was filled with red.
    And red.
    And red.
    He couldn’t see where it started and he couldn’t see where it finished. But it was big. No, it was BIG.
    A big, red, ugly pencil that looked poorly rendered and really shit”

    #91060

    SoundableObject

    I demand a spin-off book on the rubber plant.

    #91061

    Danny Stephenson

    G&T Admin

    #91062

    SoundableObject

    Looks good, *add to basket*

    #91096

    Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc

    >Girls in Red Dwarf fandom, I have noticed, seem to have a thing for Rimmer generally. I think it?s probably all down to some deep desire to ?fix? him.

    Actually, the reason is “Terrorform”. Partly it’s “Holoship”, and maybe a little tiny bit “Demons and Angels” (if that’s your kink), but mostly it’s that one scene or so from “Terrorform”.

    #91098

    Mr Flibble

    ?Lister?s Window was filled with red.
    And red.
    And red.
    He couldn?t see where it started and he couldn?t see where it finished. But it was big. No, it was BIG.
    A big, red, ugly pencil that looked poorly rendered and really shit?

    I nominate this for hall of fame status.

    G&T people – how about giving a list of all comments with “Hall of Fame” in them? That’s pretty easy to do.

    #91101

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    You know what, I was thinking that exact thing as I was reading through the forum this morning.

    #91102

    Seb Patrick

    >Maybe it?s just the sort of girls you hang out with, Seb.

    Or possibly the sort of girls Ben hangs out with, since it was him that said it.

    … although yes, the majority of female Dwarf fans I know do seem to love their Rimmer. With the exception of Rachel, who used to fancy Lister instead. Maybe she just has a thing for pudgy irritating Scousers.

    >Why do you say that, Seb?

    Mainly for the Kevin Keegan thing – a totally unnecessary change and one that renders the joke, such as it is, entirely unfunny. I think there are a couple of others, as well, and it just feels akin to substituting Felicity Kendal for Marilyn Monroe.

    #91147

    Tanya Jones

    G&T Admin

    I think the Rimmer thing is the mothering instinct in action, as he so obviously needs looking after. I also really fancy geeky blokes, but anyone who’s seen John will know that I’m a Rimmer fan.

    #91153

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Anyone who’s seen John will know that you’re a Tubbs fan.

    #91155

    Seb Patrick

    I nominate the above post for Hall of Making Me Spit Tea All Over My Keyboard status.

    #91182

    Ben Paddon

    OM NOM NOMINATE.

    #91214

    Lonely Among Us

    Just reading IWCD again. It’s almost eerie how much I related to how Lister felt after Kochanski dumped him, after splitting up with me burd.

    #91234

    Ben Paddon

    Probably because that situation is a pretty universally shared state to be in

    #91837

    Tarka Dal

    So can someone just confirm for me, does the omnibus feature trimmed versions of the original novels? Only that’s the only version of them I’ve ever read.

    #91838

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Not trimmed as such, but with a couple of little changes, the most famous of which being changing “Football: It’s A Funny Old Game by Kevin Keegan” into “Football: It’s A Funny Old Game by Joe Klumpp”.

    #91842

    Tarka Dal

    Cheers.

    Is Joe Klumpp a fictional creation?

    #91846

    Pete Part Three

    Uh huh.

    Thereby ruining the joke.

    #91952

    peas_and_corn

    I found the original funny and I didn’t know who Kevin Keegan was…

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