Hour Long Dwarf?

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  • #224374

    steven87gill

    Scrolling down Doug Naylors twitter & interestingly he retweeted a fan who said the episodes needed the full hour.

    Could he seriously be considering it? I’m sure Dave would love a longer runtime for their ‘crown jewels’, as it were, but if Doug is planning on filming two series back to back again, 12 episodes would be a bit of an ask.

    Another idea maybe is to keep the current timeslot but do all 2-parters? So an actual hour per story, rather than the 45 minutes you’d actually get inside of an hour timeslot with ad breaks.

    #224375

    Ben Saunders

    Red Dwarf has a very poor history with two-parters, but longer episodes I think would be lovely. Even just 40 minutes rather than 30 would be fab.

    Doug replied to that tweet with “a lot of people have been asking that”, so I hope that they use their status as Dave’s most important show to try and strongarm a couple extra minutes for themselves.

    We might end up having two ad-breaks per episode, though, which would be a very strange thing. It wouldn’t really up the budget of the show much since they typically overshoot and cut down in the edit, don’t they? Or maybe it would. It probably would.

    #224376

    Dax101

    They don’t need to be an hour, Doug just needs to manage time better and not put so much in like in the early days.

    i honestly think even if the episodes were an hour they would suffer with the same issue as having BTE be over an hour didn’t exactly help it.

    There is just a time management issue.

    #224386

    Dollar Pound

    red dwarf episodes are half an hour at most and come in batches of six

    #224387

    Dollar Pound

    the question doesn’t even make any kind of sense

    #224400

    Renegade Rob

    NO

    #224407

    Ben Saunders
    #224411

    bloodteller

    >They don’t need to be an hour, Doug just needs to manage time better and not put so much in like in the early days.

    the ‘early days’ had episodes packed full of stuff too. especially DNA, which had an ending even less conclusive than anything from XI or XII. i dont really think its entirely accurate to say the older episodes had less stuff put in them. look at almost any episode from V, for example. they’re packed to the brim with things going on

    #224414

    cwickham

    A lot of XII episodes have regularly under-run, coming in at around 27 minutes. Even Skipper is just over 28 minutes long – and that includes the ‘UKTV Original’ screen at the beginning, the ad break bumpers, and the reprise of the reveal of Holly at the top of the second half, so the ‘canonical’ version on the DVD will presumably come in at 28 minutes exactly.

    Series X episodes regularly ran for longer than this: even “Dear Dave” clocks in at 29 minutes. In XI “Samsara” and “Give and Take” also ran slightly longer than the episodes would be allowed to on the BBC. It’s curious how nearly all the XII episodes have been much shorter; “Cured” still runs at 29 minutes, all the others are 1-2 minutes shorter that, in some cases, they could really have done with.

    #224416

    Ben Saunders

    I wonder if it’s Doug thinking “this is long enough” in the edit, or Dave saying “this is too long, 27 minutes or bust”. Hmm.

    #224420

    International Debris

    They’d never be given the opportunity to do it, but frankly some leeway with the episode length would be best. Holoship needs to be 35-40 minutes, for example. Other episodes have the odd excellent scene which would definitely add to the episode, but would extend it beyond tightly regulated episode lengths.

    I think making every episode, say, 45 minutes long, would be a bad idea as I’m sure some would get stretched too far.

    #224422

    Ben Saunders

    Opinion: A lot of the deleted scenes from Red Dwarf are shite, and wouldn’t help the episode in any way if they were included due to a longer runtime. But a few of the deleted scenes are really, really good, and definitely would improve their episodes.

    #224454

    flanl3

    This would work really well if done right. Nearly every episode could benefit from ~10 minutes expansion on the story, some jokes, and most of all any real ending.

    #224458

    Dollar Pound

    rd eps come in batches of 6 – vii/viii/bte exeptions that prove the rule

    #224459

    Ben Saunders

    Would Trojan really benefit from a weak subplot about faking dyslexia? Would Marooned really benefit from that scene of them all playing poker in the beginning? Et cetera.

    This is why I want to go with the “make the episodes as long as you need them to be” format, but I don’t think that’s a thing that has ever happened – has any ever show done that? Doctor Who has longer finales but all the midseries episodes are a consistent length.

    Although I feel like the BBC can get away with nonstandard length shows, because they don’t need to slot in adverts every 15 minutes.

    #224465

    clem

    > This is why I want to go with the “make the episodes as long as you need them to be” format, but I don’t think that’s a thing that has ever happened – has any ever show done that?

    Some episodes of Fawlty Towers are well over half an hour iirc. The Psychiatrist is more like 40 minutes.

    #224466

    quinn_drummer

    It’s not as though Red Dwarf hasn’t done this before, so it’s worth pondering whether the extended episodes of series 7 benefit from th extra material.

    I for one really like the additional ending to Tikka, if only because it gives a rather neat explanation as to what happened to the curry and how they have more going forward.

    There’s a joke in Starbugs cockpit in one of the other episodes that’s quite good, but otherwise the rest of the material can be taken or left.

    I’d just worry that if Doug did get an extra 10 or 15mins it wouldn’t be used in the way we want it to be used. That’s to say, we wouldn’t get a nice exploration of plot or a satisfying ending, we’d just get more stuff thrown in the middle for the laughs.

    #224467

    Ben Saunders

    I watched the Tikka Xtended ending one morning at like 4am out of context and thought it was shite, then I saw it in the context of the episode and liked it a lot more. Sucking up curry sauce through a napkin is fucking disgusting, though.

    #224494

    Dax101

    I think if Doug had an extra 10 minutes i worry it wouldn’t be used to make the stories work better but more to add 2 new ideas into the mix and in the end up will still end up about the same.

    I mean did making BITR extended on the DVD do much for it? i think i have only watched the extended dvd version of it twice and never again.

    #224496

    Taiwan Tony

    Just a redraft of his scripts to make them tighter might help.

    #224502

    bloodteller

    > Sucking up curry sauce through a napkin is fucking disgusting, though.

    it’s a bread roll if you look closely. he just doesn’t unwrap it properly so it looks like he’s eating the paper wrapping of it rather than the actual bread

    #224513

    flanl3

    Would Trojan really benefit from a weak subplot about faking dyslexia? Would Marooned really benefit from that scene of them all playing poker in the beginning? Et cetera.

    if done right.

    #224526

    KyoSo

    Red Dwarf has a very poor history with two-parters

    To be fair, when has Red Dwarf EVER had a multi-parter that wasn’t grossly compromised in some way?

    I mean did making BITR extended on the DVD do much for it?

    Of course not. That’s because Back in the Red’s problem was being unreasonably long. Adding even MORE content was exactly the opposite of what they should’ve done to the thing.

    Pete was never supposed to be a two-parter. Back in the Red was never supposed to be a three-parter. Back to Earth was made on a budget of about fifteen pieces of popcorn when Doug was a decade rusty on writing sitcom Red Dwarf, and more like 16 years rusty on writing GOOD sitcom Red Dwarf.

    I don’t think it’s remotely sensible to declare an extra-long episode a bad idea based on those. The additional length in this hypothetical episode is a deliberate creative decision for the benefit of the story, not an enforced production woe that requires hideous amounts of padding.

    Do we have any frame of reference for how that would turn out? Absolutely not.

    I think if Doug had an extra 10 minutes i worry it wouldn’t be used to make the stories work better but more to add 2 new ideas into the mix and in the end up will still end up about the same.

    But we can guess.

    #224560

    Me Own Stunts

    Happy for episodes to be as long as necessary to tell a story, so they don’t feel too rushed or stop suddenly. Good episodes have enough breathing time. There’s a danger though that without the half hour restriction, Doug will turn out flabby scripts again like Back in the Red and Pete.

    The argument I would make for flexible running times is that shown on Dave with an advert break, there’s no specific reason why 30 minutes should be used, apart from tradition. As a standard on advert channels you’d get a show that was either 30 or 60 minutes *with* adverts, not 35 minutes with them included. It seems there’s a lot of flexibility around scheduling in that regard, which means episodes could be as long as Doug wanted, presuming it didn’t cost more to do this.

    #224567

    Hamish

    I know it has become something of a cliche to say this, but placing constraints on someone can sometimes help improve the quality of their creative output. Doug is already both writing and directing his own shows now. How much more can he be unbridled?

    #224571

    Ben Saunders

    Sometimes it can, but I think the constraints placed on Red Dwarf since VII haven’t exactly “helped” much of anything

    #224869

    Dollar Pound

    after various semi-deliberate experiments the show has managed to claw back so much quality by sticking to 6 x ~30min eps that it is now surpassing series vi. and visa versa – m-corp and skipper and krysis and give and take and lemons are so good that 6 x ~30mins should be dogma by now. roll it out

    #224870

    Dollar Pound

    m-corp and skipper are quintessential show, like backwards and polymorph. for me

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