Red Dwarf Remastered Credits

Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Red Dwarf Remastered Credits

This topic contains 126 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  International Debris 5 days, 2 hours ago.

Viewing 127 posts - 1 through 127 (of 127 total)

Jump to bottom

  • Author
    Posts
  • #226403

    Jawscvmcdia

    Why do they occasionally credit Robert Llewellyn as ‘Rob Llewellyn’ in some of the remastered episode credits? I’ve never seen them do that outside of the remastered and it just looks careless.

    RDTLDR1<br />gif hoster<br />

    #226404

    cwickham

    It’s because the Remastered series is shit.

    #226406

    bloodteller

    possibly because whatever program they were using to make the credits only allowed for one line of text per name? i dunno

    #226407

    Katydid

    Remastered looking sloppy and careless?

    Surely you jest.

    #226409

    Ben Saunders

    Why did they combine six letters into three though?

    #226421

    Katydid

    Rob Llewellyn was _years_ ago. Right now we’re much more concerned with the quite hideous thing that has happened to Rebecca Blackstone.

    #226428

    Ben Saunders

    Reb Blackstone

    #226429

    Katydid

    Chr Bar as Rim

    #226430

    flanl3

    What do you mean, you Lis-ed him, Cra Cra Cha?

    #226431

    Hamish

    While we are at it, who is this Grant Naylor fellow, and why has he never appeared on any of the DVDs?

    #226432

    bloodteller

    Norm Love

    #226433

    Ben Saunders

    (played by Rob Llewellyn)

    #226435

    Hamish

    DJ Jules

    #226441

    GlenTokyo

    Having a watch of some series III remastered episodes. Jesus Christ. I honestly don’t think I’ve watched remastered since what I remember being an inflated price was paid at a local science fiction shop for then on VHS. There is some truly awful shit I’d completely forgotten and that didn’t make it into the High and Low either I don’t think. How about the abysmal attempt at a cloaking Starbug landing that looked like someone had cut out Starbug from a publicity shot in MS Paint and animated it all in PowerPoint. The aliasing alone should have got it cut, nevermind the fact that it’s a 2D image in a moving shot so none of the angles change.

    Then there’s the cockpit windows in Marooned. I nearly puked. Looks like Starbug is at sea in a force 5 wind. It’s quite a feat to make something look worse than a mistake made in 1989.

    Also Robert is credited as such in some episodes so fuck knows. It’s all incredibly slapdash.

    Interesting though because I’d say I could do a lot of stuff better in one afternoon (excluding rendering) in after effects and premiere, so now would be a good time maybe to do it more authentically. Blu-ray release with all 3 series and a minor upres and grade, get rid of the film effect, but key stuff in windows and such, try and find the model shots and scan them in a higher resolution. Would be worth having that I imagine if they had the budget for it.

    #226442

    Katydid

    Then there’s the cockpit windows in Marooned. I nearly puked. Looks like Starbug is at sea in a force 5 wind. It’s quite a feat to make something look worse than a mistake made in 1989.

    Honestly, I never originally noticed the bad comping in Marooned back in the day. The neutral flat-color background doesn’t bring attention to itself. HOWEVER, trying to put a background in there absolutely brings attention to it. In fact it might have been Remastered that caused me to notice the iffiness of the original in the first place.

    #226443

    Katydid

    …I just opened my DVD rip of the remastered episode, and…

    Oh my god. That…that literally looks like something I’d have tried to make in CompositeLab Pro in 2009 and given up on when it came out shit. It doesn’t just look bad, it looks like the VFX artist gave up on it after five minutes. It doesn’t remotely match the camera movement, and the background just fucking vanishes in the middle of the shot.

    The skutter in The End is a masterpiece compared to this. My God.

    #226444

    Katydid

    Notice the flickering hole in the control panel.

    #226445

    GlenTokyo

    What’s with the shutters? Starbug has shutters. They’re bronze and clearly visible on the outside of the windows, they close vertically.

    The remastered one has a horizontal wiping shutter which is actually just black fill which makes the blue shimmering edges on Craig, Chris and the cockpit stand out even more than the grey that was there in the first place.

    Also the order of operations in that Starbug. Start with the shutters open and fire her up, then close the shutters for the launch sequence, then open them seconds before you need to see where you’re going.

    It’s a mess. There’s all sorts of stuff, basic commonsense stuff that’s just wrong. Timeslides, the gout of flame that comes out of the screen looks decent but is in the background, yet it covers foreground objects so it looks like it’s coming out at an angle that would miss Lister anyway. Another Timeslides audio one is the Blaize Falconburger bit has had its music replaced, but they’ve replaced it with a 2 second sting type thing, and just repeated it over and over. It’s terrible.

    #226446

    Pete Part Three

    Whenever I think of Remastered, I’m reminded of Men Behaving Badly, for some reason.

    The scene where Tony sneaks into Deborah’s bedroom, rifles through her drawers, reads her diary, spills a milkshake over her bedsheets, accidentally bleaches said bedsheets at the dry-cleaners, then stages a robbery to explain it all.

    Or to put it another way; they started fiddling around with old episodes they shouldn’t have touched, got carried away and didn’t know when to stop, made a complete fuck-up of it all…and then slapped a £12.99 price sticker on each video.

    #226447

    Ridley

    But what does Japan think?

    #226450

    Pete Part Three

    Well, annoyingly the forum doesn’t allow me to post Japanese characters into here.

    Just assume I posted something hilarious in Japanese. It’s quicker.

    #226452

    Ben Saunders

    I noticed the shit CSO from a very young age, and those moments when the picture quality changes for no discernable reason – different cameras, probably. It’s distracting, but nowhere near as distracting as Tony to cover it all up with poorly done 1997 CGI.

    #226453

    Ben Saunders

    Actually it’s probably the image dropping one or two generations because they did all the effects in post by that point didn’t they?

    #226456

    bloodteller

    >But what does Japan think?

    read a japanese Red Dwarf site once, i don’t think i saw anyone complaining about Remastered. there was a rather odd section where they claimed Captain Hollister has hemorrhoids though, dunno what that was about.

    #226457

    Ben Saunders

    He does have them though, what else would the glove be for?

    #226459

    Plastic Percy

    Fingering himself and/or others.

    #226460

    Jawscvmcdia

    I don’t even understand why they attempted a moving CSO effect with such an unsteady camera in 1989, especially considering the technology limitations at the time. Surely it would have been easier to just paint the windscreen black, or better yet have a landscaped painting of the Starbug cockpit area?

    #226462

    bloodteller

    just noticed at one point the CSO in Marooned Remastered is so shit that part of Lister’s head becomes see-through.

    it’s a wonder why they didn’t just leave it as it was in the original episode- it wasn’t too good in the original either but it didn’t really stick out as much.

    #226463

    Dave
    #226466

    GlenTokyo

    There’s a few moments in that episode that make me think handheld was either unplanned or they didn’t have enough time to get stuff to patch the sets up. You can see through the roof of Starbug, the dodgy bluescreen, in the eating curry scene you can almost see the audience seating, and there’s the bit at the end where they composited some foreground tat in to cover the studio floor.

    #226468

    MANI506

    I spotted Lister walking off the edge of the set when he sits down with his curry and you can see a monitor when he breaks the guitar in half. This is more to do with how much I watched every frame in worrying detail as a sbool boy.

    #226469

    Katydid

    and there’s the bit at the end where they composited some foreground tat in to cover the studio floor.

    screencap plz

    #226480

    GlenTokyo

    Let’s hope that works. Otherwise

    https://i.imgur.com/yRAsM5Ir.jpg

    #226483

    Jawscvmcdia

    Which one looks better?

    NL

    #226484

    Pete Part Three

    Which one do I have to make eye-contact with in the morning?

    #226486

    GlenTokyo

    Can I say neither. One looks like Norman Lovett with a dodgy video effect over the top, one looks like Bobby Charlton covered in foundation.

    #226522

    bloodteller

    one of the worst effects in Remastered is arguably the incredibly slow moving and small fireball in Me2 thats meant to be the radiation leak. it just looks a bit underwhelming and shit really

    #226540

    Ben Saunders

    Well it is a leak, not a flood. Who are we to say what it would look like.

    #226541

    bloodteller

    i dunno but surely massive radiation leaks on a ship 5 miles long aren’t contained entirely within one shit 90s CGI fireball?

    at least in the original episode you got the impression the whooshy wind stuff was all over the ship

    #226691

    bloodteller

    https://imgur.com/a/DglJQ

    i’d just like to also point out this especially awful shot in Remastered. i mean what the fuck’s going on there? why didn’t the CGI man just put 2 red dwarfs in the same shot instead of putting one on with some really crap bluescreen? it’s not even the same size as the other one and it looks like they’re about to crash into each other.

    #226693

    GlenTokyo

    Yeah that is awful. Don’t know what Chris Veale was working with back then but I found myself thinking to myself many times why he didn’t render out separate shots because even a lot of the flybys are a blue screen Dwarf comped in to a starfield.

    That shot though, it doesn’t even make sense, they’d have hit each other I think, and the foreground one isn’t big enough.

    I quite liked the disappearing ship from Parallel Universe, but that was one of very few good shots, that and the Polymorph opening are the ones that show what could have been done with more time and money but so many are poor.

    #226697

    bloodteller

    the shots of the ship used in VIII are sort of how i imagine Remastered would’ve looked if it weren’t all so careless- there’s some shots in Krytie TV that almost trick me into thinking there’s a genuine model there

    e.g. this: https://imgur.com/a/KED2g

    #226706

    Katydid

    The lighting still gives it away as obvious CG, although simply dulling the red and having some light reflection in the surface elevates it far above Remastered’s oversaturated, completely matte textures.

    #226709

    International Debris

    Yeah, the VIII one is considerably better than the remastered one. Still shit, of course, but even in my early teens I noticed the difference.

    When I first saw the original Parallel Universe I was disappointed the ship disappearing didn’t leave that slightly displaced starfield present in the remastered version.

    #226710

    Dax101

    There were limitations to what they could do with the CGI and its kinda obvious at times.

    The way the 2 red dwarfs fly around each other in parallel universe (Remastered) is very inconsistent.

    I have always wondered about how they were gonna remaster Demons and Angels because there were obviously things they couldn’t do with the CGI like crashing the ships and whatever so how were they gonna pull off Red Dwarf being destroyed? were they gonna cheat around it like they did the starbug crash in Bodyswap?

    #226711

    GlenTokyo

    Probably a really fucking awful 2D picture of the new Dwarf cut up and flying away with a soft yellow particle effect behind it.

    #226715

    International Debris

    I was looking forward to Back to Reality being remastered, with Timothy Spall being overdubbed by somebody with a ‘more acceptable accent’.

    #226716

    bloodteller

    if i recall correctly, the original intent for Remastered was to use the CGI solely on stuff like Blue Midget, and use an actual model they’d built for shots of the Red Dwarf ship- but the new model ended up being so big that they couldn’t actually shoot anything with it so they ended up having to hurriedly make all of the effects in CGI.

    that’d certainly explain why it looks so horrendous

    #226717

    Ben Paddon

    When I heard that story a decade ago my initial response was, “Ahaha, what a silly mistake to make.” Now I hear it and think, “Ahaha, what a perfect example of just how poorly-planned the Remastered project was.”

    #226719

    GlenTokyo

    What gets me about that model though is in Re-Dwarf Doug explains it all and says that as a piece of model making it was lightyears ahead of the OG one, I just don’t see how. It’s better than the rebuild one, which didn’t have the weathered look (due to potentially only being built to get blown to bits/smaller budget and timeframe) but even in the film concept shot and the unused end crawl on Bodysnatcher, I just don’t see it. Scale wise it looks small, like the empire state building laying down or something, not 5 miles long.

    I don’t really have a hatred for the new model in its original form, prefer the OG one, but even if they’d filmed a model it still would have been worse.

    The model we have now though is even worse that that imo, too short, cone too long. I’d honestly take a CG Dwarf now, some hybrid.

    The big section too has horrendous light leakage that really makes it look like some plastic sheets over a strip light.

    #226721

    Ben Saunders

    Building a huge expensive model that’s too fucking big to film has got to be one of the most ridiculous things that has EVER happened.

    #226722

    GlenTokyo

    Too big to film in the place they decided to film, not too big to film elsewhere as proved by the movie concept footage.

    They could have just planned ahead and booked a studio big enough, just proves how rushed it all was, even before set backs. Only the audio side (minus the library music and incongruous sound effects) got it right.

    #226723

    Dax101

    Im glad they never got to remaster Series 6 because in retrospect a fair amount of the effects for that series were mostly decent so trying to remaster that series would probably end up with changes made just for the sake of changes.

    #226726

    flanl3

    I’m also glad that they never got to remaster series 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, or 12 or back to earth in the same way they remastered series 1-3 because it would have been absolute garbage, even for series 7.

    #226727

    GlenTokyo

    Series VI arguably has the best special effects of any series when you add it all up, including the new ones. Brilliant model work plus those SVC special effects that really hold up and suit the aesthetic.

    The only one that’s comes to mind as a bit crap is the Rimmer face warp in Legion, but even that is pretty well done – the wall behind him doesn’t warp as well, which I imagine was pretty hard to do in the early 90’s.

    The Legion tractor ball is fantastic for example, and the AR game, and Rimmer’s boot up, and the teleporter.

    I’m choosing not to blame them for the space filth enforcement drone, that looks like something from Top of the Pops in the 80’s so I think that one is the BBC haha

    #226732

    Dave

    The weird thing is that there is that brief shot of the enforcement drone where it isn’t a weird 2D flipping effect, and it looks pretty good.

    I think the effects in VI are largely great, although Legion’s face always seems a bit crap. But I think that’s maybe just ill-conceived rather than poorly-executed.

    #226733

    Ben Paddon

    The remastered version of Tikka on the Series VII DVD is pretty nifty, though.

    #226739

    quinn_drummer

    > The model we have now though is even worse that that imo, too short, cone too long. I’d honestly take a CG Dwarf now, some hybrid.

    > The big section too has horrendous light leakage that really makes it look like some plastic sheets over a strip light.

    I agree. And it’s a really annoying symptom of them cutting down the longer pencil model that would have had everything in proportion. It’s the nose cone that looks ridiculous, it’s like half the length of the rest of the ship.

    I’m not sure I’d go as far to say I’d prefer a CGI Dwarf, although the one in BTE isn’t awful. But I feel they could touch the model up a bit to make it look a little less awkward …

    Although now I say that, part of the charm of Red Dwarf (the ship) is that is is big, bulky and awkward.

    #226740

    Plastic Percy

    Just watching Polymorph and was wondering if anyone knew what the deal with the corridor the second Polymorph basketball bounces along is. I figured that it was something they filmed on the VIII set, but it looks more colourful and industrial than VIII. The same shot is also used for the fireball in Me2.

    #226741

    flanl3

    Yeah, but imagine if they’d remastered Tikka with the same crap effects, garbage sound and music, and strange cuts present in the rest of remastered. And also if they’d remastered every other episode that way. Wasn’t there some thread where we started making a load of VIII remastered jokes or something?

    #226742

    Dax101

    I think the corridor is part of the same set in the 10th anniversary smeg ups special, as you can see it behind Kryten

    i might also be apart of the extended Tikka to Ride ending also as i assume that was filmed around the same time as the 10th anniversary stuff was filmed.

    #226743

    Katydid

    It’s the nose cone that looks ridiculous, it’s like half the length of the rest of the ship.

    Personally, I adore this. It gives the ship a wonky vibe that doesn’t look like anything else, whereas the full Remastered ship is just Red Dwarf made to look like a generic sci-fi spaceship.

    #226747

    GlenTokyo

    The corridor is VII vintage as Dax says, available due to Xtended.

    The cone maybe could work being that big if the ram scoop was smaller. It was never so massive on the OG Dwarf, maybe a scale down (Doug can fire up his 3D printer) would bring some balance back.

    #226760

    Ben Saunders

    The ram scoop is the biggest issue with the new Dwarf model, as well a the fact that it’s painfully obvious that the lights in it are just LED strips that bleed through in the most unconvincing way.

    The CGI Dwarf in BtE was shot from incredibly far away because they couldn’t afford the detail necessary to bring it closer, lmao.

    I think replacing the original, terrific I-VII model shots with CGI is sacrilege, because they were so masterfully done for the most part, but with the exception of, like, The Beginning, has there even been any better-than-decent model shots in the newer series’? Twentica doesn’t count because sometimes I feel like everybody was just so amazed that we were getting a not-terrible, actual-model shot that they were too busy jizzing themselves to see that it was just alright.

    Stuff like the exploding space station in Give & Take and the one in Krysis is all CGI, right? Has CGI reached the point where having another crack at a CG Dwarf/Starbug would be feasible, or can we still only use it for guest ships shot from far away? It would free things up in the logistics and shot choice department to be CG.

    Given the advances in 3D printing I would guess that the cost of building models has come down significantly, but the actual logistics and cost of shooting them are still pretty big.

    This is a long comment x

    #226763

    GlenTokyo

    The ship shot in Officer Rimmer and the pod in Samsara, as well as the CG shots you mentioned show to me that it could be done very well.

    The models just aren’t there currently, they either need to get Mike Tucker and co in to do the lot or go CG for me. Because almost all the Starbug shots are generic blue screen and comped together, there’s no interactive lighting, maybe if they knew where things would be used then they could address this but I don’t know if they can afford it.

    The CG guy said on one of the BTS docs on series XII said that on occasion it’d be better to use a CG Starbug and it’d fit into the scene better (lighting and interaction with the event, reacting to a shockwave etc) but the show is about models. That really didn’t sit right with me.

    Models were used because they produced the best product. If that’s no longer the case then evolve.

    I love the models, really, it’s like my particular extra area of love Dwarf wise, but if you’re not going to do it properly I’d rather them not do it at all than badly. I also appreciate not everyone cares about them as much as me so I may seem like a bit of a dick when I’m criticising all the time.

    As you say, a lot of them are alright, very few are anywhere near as good as BBC VisFX and more than there should be shouldn’t be in the show really.

    That shot of Starbug flying down the side of Red Dwarf where you can see it has no engine gives me nightmares haha

    #226764

    GlenTokyo

    I still think 3D printing is a terrible way to do it too. They’re brittle and porous so don’t take a paintjob very well. Maybe it’d be better to print negatives of each section and and use them to make a slush cast of each, I know this is becoming popular now due to the increased resolution available.

    3D printing should be used for printing widgets and small versions of stuff, like the 6 inch Starbug, and maybe legs and feet, but almost all professional model makers that I follow go 3D print, finish (fill and prime, sand smooth), mold and then use the castings for the final product. They could get 6 or 7 full sized hollow resin Starbugs this way, maybe more. They’d be light, durable and they’d take paint, and you’d be able to detail it better.

    It would almost certainly be cheaper too.

    #226765

    International Debris

    but the show is about models. That really didn’t sit right with me.

    Yeah, this seems to be a bit of a response to the negative reaction around the late ’90s use of CG, and reminds me a tiny bit of the overtly broad comedy of VIII being a response to the less popular dramatic/filmic VII.

    Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the fact that there’s actually a TV sitcom with models in it in 2017, but it’s just so disappointing. I’d much prefer they spent their time doing some really good, varied fly-bys of the Dwarf itself, and then threw everything else together in CG. Certainly the many XI/XII shots mentioned above show that it’s more than possible. Almost all the shots of Starbug and Red Dwarf together in recent series have been really poor, and they only serve to cheapen the look of the show. I understand the practical limitations these days, with models being a niche thing, but given how good the rest of the show looks, it seems daft to stick to poor looking model shots on the grounds that fans didn’t like poor looking CG in the ’90s.

    #226766

    Ben Saunders

    Yeah, I know the Star Wars prequels get a lot of shit for poor CGI, but stuff like the beautiful opening space battle of Revenge of the Sith could not be done with just models, and I think it’s silly to limit yourself arbitrarily if you could realistically achieve better results with more modern technology.

    I do like Mike Tucker and don’t want to see him out of a job, though.

    At least one of the model shots in V/VI was a greenscreened Starbug superimposed onto an old Dwarf flyby, and it looks a bit wonky, but I only noticed recently watching my pristine DVD on a big screen rather than my wobbly old VHS on a tiny one. Perhaps the move to HD and digital also makes believable model shots more difficult, since everything is bigger and more defined, you can see the flaws more and there is less visual noise to cover up for things?

    I remember there were some shots in Rogue One where I thought “wow, that’s a really nice model shot of that Star Destroyer” – it was ALL CGI. CGI made to look like model shots from the 70s.

    I still think models are super cool from a 13-year-old-boy perspective, but I think if CG is going to look better, go for CG.

    #226767

    GlenTokyo

    Mike Tucker isn’t involved enough, that’s the issue. I believe The Model Unit just did the bazookoids and the landing pad, and they helped with the Twentica crash, but the models themselves were built by The Magic Camera Company and those two blokes that look like Trevor and Simon haha. They need to go back to real environments, starfields etc if they’re going to do models.

    There are chroma key shots in series II that look more convincing than now and that’s not right surely.

    I don’t think it’s HD though, watch Moon on bluray that looks great, even the OG ship shot used in Skipper (where that came from I don’t know, either a rescan or an upscale, still looks great though) there’s just not the attention to detail.

    The paintjobs, lighting and details aren’t quite right.

    They’ve got a decent DOP for the models though I think, he seems to care and is of the right generation to do it justice, but it’s the models themselves.

    #226768

    Ben Saunders

    You’re right about the OG ship model still looking good in Skipper, but those were stellar shots of a great model in an expensive studio, I’m thinking maybe the fact that the newer model shots are mediocre AND in HD hurts their believability. If it was shot at 480p and shown on a 20-year old third generation VHS it might look more cohesive, but then again it might not.

    #226769

    Jawscvmcdia

    “Because almost all the Starbug shots are generic blue screen and comped together, there’s no interactive lighting”

    Lol as if they didn’t do things this way back in the “classic series”:

    SB

    #226770

    Dax101

    I think the Remastered along with 7 and 8 left a bad taste in my mouth because i still would rather they stick to models because at least with Models there is no worry about whether it looks real or not because its an actual model and in close up shots you can see the detail is really there.

    Now in 2017 perhaps they have got CGI to that point now where they could make some CGI shots as good as the model shots but this show is still on a fairly low budget and CGI is still fairly tricky to make look good even today.

    Thats why they never zoomed in on the Red Dwarf CGI model in BTE.

    #226771

    GlenTokyo

    But Jawscvmcdia, the thing is, one of those is tinted to match the light from the sun, and the other two are lit similarly to the other model shots so they don’t stick out like a sort thumb like the new ones do.

    Look at the one that’s in Give and Take, explosions going off below and Starbug and yet it’s lit by one massive white light on one side and the rest is in shadow. And the model is worse.

    #226772

    bloodteller

    if we’re complaining about model shots, i’d just like to point out that halfway through XII they clearly ran out of ship fly-bys to use. at this point they begin to use this really really shit shot which is clearly just a .png of the ship being dragged across a background and it annoys me quite a lot

    #226773

    Ben Saunders

    That middle shot of Starbug flying away from the explosion looks incredible, though, I thought it was one non-composited shot because I’m thick

    #226774

    Ben Saunders

    And yeah XII decided to use the same flyby with the same sting like 14 times, fs

    #226775

    GlenTokyo

    That sting should definitely be retired.

    #226776

    Dax101

    The remastered shows kept using the same sting too and it just seems to the default sting now.

    Admittedly the remastered sting isn’t as good as the original one, it seems to lack something somehow.

    It just seems to be slightly default now.

    #226777

    bloodteller

    other stings are available

    #226778

    Phil

    >Lol as if they didn’t do things this way back in the “classic series”

    Why did you post three separate screengrabs that refute your own point though?

    #226779

    Paul Muller

    I had a go at building and animating a 3D Starbug a few months back.

    I never properly finished working on it, but here’s a quick test shot that I put together:

    https://vimeo.com/204600267

    I tried to replicate the lighting and movement of the I-VI model shots as much as possible, but adding a bit more depth and some interesting planets etc.

    I also tried to match the grade and film noise to something approximating 35mm, not sure that worked, but it shows that a bit of post-processing can make a difference.

    I’ve been thinking of getting hold of the raw FX shots from XI and having a go at re-comping with new backgrounds etc. Of course, that would probably be copyright infringment so I definitely won’t do that…

    #226780

    GlenTokyo

    I had a go at building and animating a 3D Starbug a few months back.

    I never properly finished working on it, but here’s a quick test shot that I put together

    I really like that. Nice work, especially once it’s flown past the camera, it looks as good if not better as anything I’ve seen Dwarf wise in CG and most of the recent models to me, the planet and the asteroid, and the effects on top really add a realness. With an actual scan of Mike Tucker’s Starbug and all the texture reference this would be amazing.

    When you say you didn’t finish it, what were you planning to do, bit of motion blur as it passes the camera?

    Anyway, had a look at some of your other stuff too, maybe send a DVD to Doug, you can be Veale 2.0 haha – what do you render on? I imagine that’s where the expense comes in.

    #226781

    flanl3

    Jawstingdia

    #226782

    Dave

    That Starbug looks great Paul.

    #226783

    International Debris

    Now in 2017 perhaps they have got CGI to that point now where they could make some CGI shots as good as the model shots but this show is still on a fairly low budget and CGI is still fairly tricky to make look good even today.

    There are plenty of shots in XI and XII that show they’re capable of doing really good CG, so I don’t think it falls into question really.

    #226784

    flanl3

    The CGI shot of the underwater Samsara was really nicely done. Too bad you can’t see it.

    #226785

    Dave

    I thought that was one of the worst offenders – it looked tiny.

    #226786

    flanl3

    That was probably Starbug. I doubt you saw anything else.

    #226787

    Jawscvmcdia

    Another great shot:

    SB1

    #226788

    Jawscvmcdia

    And another

    SB2<br />get a url for an image<br />

    #226789

    GlenTokyo

    Thats a point I was thinking about last night as to why it looks worse now. Nothing ever happens to the models. Some of the best shots are of starbug getting hit by a flaming meteorite or Ace in his ship, or doing a barrel roll or something.

    The only things we’ve had recently that I can think of are the crash in Twentica and the grabbers in Siliconia.

    #226790

    flanl3

    The crash in Twentica was excellent though.

    #226791

    GlenTokyo

    It was, the actual crash itself was great, and the shot from the cockpit as it approaches those rock pillars is fantastic. The only dodgy bit is the (again composited) bounce off the rock. But it doesn’t spoil what comes before and after.

    #226792

    Ben Saunders

    I was never that blown away by it – yes it’s models, crashing, which is nice, but the lead-up to it had some dodgy compositing, the Starbug model looks wrong and the way the sand interacts with the model is a bit iffy, it looked CG on UKTV Play but I think it’s just slowed down.

    I don’t hate all the model shots though – Siliconia looked great, one of the Dwarf flybys in X actually looked decent, The Beginning obviously. I’m worried I’ll name another bit i thought looked great and it’ll turn out to be CGI now, though.

    I think the motion blur pretty much always looks terrible. The way they fake motion blur it’s like they’re not even trying to make it look real, just… blurry.

    #226793

    bloodteller

    imo they should just use models for the Red Dwarf fly-bys and then do everything else in CGI- there’s no real point in using models for quite a lot of sequences in XI and XII, and throughout XI/XII they’ve shown they can do CGI very convincingly- the Samsara crashing looked great for example, as did the ship in Officer Rimmer.

    plus the starbug in XI/XII is really weirdly lit in quite a lot of the shots so it just makes it look like CGI anyway. paul muller’s one looked more like a model than the actual model

    #226794

    Ben Saunders

    I think I agree with you, bloodteller.

    I would like to see more models interacting with environments – snow, sand, lava, water – which I think might be better done with real models, but the stuff that’s just in space should probably just be done with CG. The little boy in me would intellectually prefer a Red Dwarf model, but you might be able to convince him CG is the future.

    #226795

    GlenTokyo

    You do models because stuff is hard to compute, like sand crashes would be rendering for fooking ages whereas with a model and a high speed camera you have it done in a few seconds (minus prep time obviously) but a lot of model shots in X XI and XII may as well be flat images because their lighting doesn’t match the environment and their presence doesn’t affect the scene.

    Paul’s CG with the actual model scanned in would be fucking immense if they gave us that for all the flying, and have models for landing and crashing where there’s an actual environment for it to interact with.

    #226813

    Katydid

    The cone maybe could work being that big if the ram scoop was smaller. It was never so massive on the OG Dwarf, maybe a scale down (Doug can fire up his 3D printer) would bring some balance back.

    Who needs balance in space? I encourage spaceships to distribute their weight weirdly instead of looking like planes or boats.

    #226817

    GlenTokyo

    Who needs balance in space? I encourage spaceships to distribute their weight weirdly instead of looking like planes or boats.

    Just seems unlikely than the engine intake would be half as long as the ship, fictional spaceship or not.

    Bit like having a 200ft cooling tower on top of a disposable barbecue.

    #226834

    Plastic Percy

    I’ve been rewatching the Re-Mastered Series and it’s awakened some nostalgia in me. It was the first Red Dwarf I owned – one Christmas as a lad I was given the Re-Mastered Series II, Byte I and Red Dwarf VII: Xtended. So for me I’ve never really had much problem with the faults. Heck, I still think some of the CGI shots look like models and think the work done to malfunctioning Rimmer looks great in Queeg.

    #226838

    International Debris

    Yeah, there are plenty of complaints that people have that I don’t mind, partially out of having only seen the originals once, many, many years before I owned the Remastered, so them effectively feeling like new Dwarf to me. I don’t mind malfunctioning Rimmer in Queeg (took ages to get used to it not being there when I bought the DVD), and there are (very occasional) things that I think improve it – I prefer Cat’s music, I like the music when Lister is fixing the drive computer in Future Echoes, and ‘Yes God’ is a funny line that fills an awkward space at the end of The End.

    Most of it is still shit, though.

    #226839

    Pete Part Three

    I’d like to thank Remastered. Up until then I was spending a stupid amount of money on buying every crap bit of Red Dwarf merchandise on the shelves. Then they released Remastered, I bought 3 of the videos and then I thought “aw fuck this”.

    #226840

    GlenTokyo

    It was really expensive wasn’t it? I can’t remember exactly how much but I just remember being pissed off at how much it was everytime a new one came out.

    #226841

    Dax101

    Presumbaly the BBC had to make back the money they spent remastering it to make it worth it.

    Or they are just greedy, made their money back and wanted abit extra for a new car or 10.

    i always got the feeling alot of the remastering was done because if the show didn’t look remastered or different enough then no one would buy it… and i own 4 of the remastered VHS tapes so it kinda worked :P

    #226843

    Ben Saunders

    >I like the music when Lister is fixing the drive computer in Future Echoes.

    Bit too melodramatic for me. I think the official scene builds the tension absolutely perfectly, and you feel genuinely uncomfortable and on the edge of your seat more and more before the climax. Then we get “dog attack!” which is fucking weird and not funny and probably one of the worst “jokes” ever.

    “Yes, God?” is funny.

    #226844

    Ben Saunders

    Original scene*

    #226845

    flanl3

    **original scene

    #226846

    Ben Saunders

    ***original scone

    #226847

    flanl3

    ****offiginal scene

    #226849

    Katydid

    Just seems unlikely than the engine intake would be half as long as the ship, fictional spaceship or not.

    Based on what?

    If the intake of hydrogen is the fuel source for the ship, seems to me you’d want the ramscoop as big as you can possibly build it.

    #226850

    GlenTokyo

    Based on what?

    If the intake of hydrogen is the fuel source for the ship, seems to me you’d want the ramscoop as big as you can possibly build it.

    Interstellar ramjet concepts that actually exist that I’ve seen, you need the biggest diameter but the length doesn’t seem to matter. It’s more likely to be sort of flat dish shape not a long cone. You can shorten the length and still have the same diameter, just a waste of materials innit.

    #226851

    GlenTokyo

    Plus it’s a TV show. So in my opinion it’d improve the aesthetics and make it closer to the OG ship, but everykne has different opinions of the current ship.

    #226855

    flanl3

    I mean wouldn’t the atoms slide in more easily down a cone than a dish

    #226856

    flanl3

    Why don’t they take all the confiscated speaking slide rules and eject those as fuel that’ll keep them moving for another twenty years

    #226857

    flanl3

    In fact they should just burn all the witches, that’ll show ’em not to rub superglue on my leg hairs

    #226858

    flanl3

    And therefore Red Dwarf needs a massive scoop

    #226859

    GlenTokyo

    What about the modems?

    #226860

    bloodteller

    wouldn’t it be extremely difficult to smuggle a modem into an exam?

    also surely todhunter would hear if someone got out a speaking slide rule, so it’d be completely pointless to bring those in too

    #226862

    International Debris

    What the fuck was Todhunter’s job, anyway? For someone seemingly high up he had some shit tasks. Going through a dead bloke’s artefacts, being an exam invigilator. Boring.

    #226863

    GlenTokyo

    Second officer which seems to be Human Resources and personal assistant to the Captain in Red Dwarf.

    #226864

    bloodteller

    i wonder what he was up to during Series 8? for someone who’s basically the captain’s second in command, it’s odd that he doesn’t even get a mention

    #226866

    flanl3

    Also, where can I find the HR department in a prison?

    #226867

    Katydid

    What the fuck was Todhunter’s job, anyway?

    Being gay?

    #226870

    Ben Saunders

    Being gay is a full time occupation.

    #226872

    Dave

    What the fuck was Todhunter’s job, anyway?

    He never did catch Tod.

    #226873

    Dave

    i wonder what he was up to during Series 8?

    Probably filming Cold Feet.

    #226876

    International Debris

    i wonder what he was up to during Series 8?

    He was married so it was too difficult to write him into a sex-based storyline.

Jump to top / Jump to 'Recent Replies'

Viewing 127 posts - 1 through 127 (of 127 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Comments are closed.