The murderous Red Dwarf crew

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This topic contains 30 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Phil 1 week, 3 days ago.

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  • #222617

    Lily

    So I figured I’d go work out just how many lifeforms the boys from the Dwarf have extinguished over the years. Unsurprisingly, it’s quite a lot …

    Rimmer
    168/1168 – Accidentally caused death (crew:The End)
    70? – Intentionally caused death (wax droids:Meltdown, simulants:The Beginning)
    1 – Human murder (Katerina:BtE)
    1 – Attempted human murder (Herring:Officer Rimmer)
    1 – Mechanoid murder (Asclepius:Give & Take)

    Lister
    3 – Computer/Hologram deactivation (rimmer:me2, Cassandra, Pree:Fathers&Suns)
    2 – Monster murder (curry:DNA, polymorph:Emohawk)
    2 – Mechanoid murder (simulant:Justice, Inquisitor)
    1 – Human murder (Creator:BtE)

    Cat
    9 – Monster murder (polymorph:Polymorph, polymorphs:Can of Worms)
    1 – Human murder (low Lister:Demons & Angels)
    1 – Attempted monster murder (psiren:Psirens)
    1 – Mechanoid murder (Crawford:Trojan)

    Kryten
    2 – Monster murder (polymoprh:Polymorph, psiren:Psirens)
    2 – Mechanoid murder (Hudzen:Last Day, Asclepius:Give & Take)
    1 – Human murder (facist cop:Back to Reality)

    Kochanski
    1 – Sentient organism murder (Epideme:Epideme)

    All crew
    2 – Simulant murder (simulant:Gunmen, simulant:Rimmerworld)
    1 – Accidentally caused death (Oswald:Tika)
    1 – Monster murder (rimmer blob:Officer Rimmer)

    Death by other factors
    2 – Natural causes (cat priest:Waiting for God, Dr Lanstrom:Quarantine)
    2 – Murder/Suicide (Confidence & Paranoia, simulant/Able:Beyond a Joke)
    2 – Already dead/dying (Ace Rimmer:Stoke, Caroline Carmen:Epideme)
    2 – Vaporised by computer (Barker/Green:Samsara)
    1 – Predestination (JFK:Tika)
    1 – Non existance (Legion)
    1 – Accident (Dr Edgington:Entangled)

    Met crew and lived
    9 – Original Kryten, other crew:Parallel Universe, Camille, Ace:Dimension Jump, Holoship crew, Self-loathing:Terrorform, other crew:Ouroborus, Jesus:Lemons, Butler:Krysis

    What struck me was that the ‘prime’ series of 4/5/6 had the most action and deaths in them, while 2 + 7/8 had the least.

    Also, the Classic series only had non-humans in space and all human interaction was done in flashbacks/parallel universes/timey wimey stuff. So there was no need to have to kill them off. It’s only now, when they’re defrosting people like Dr Edgington that you’re getting more human deaths.

    Erm, I can’t remember where I was going with this now though. So. Morning wasted, time to get some lunch I think.

    #222618

    Sofajockey

    Nice work. This needs a pie chart or some such I feel…

    #222619

    Seb Patrick

    Katerina is a hologram.

    #222620

    Seb Patrick

    (And also not real, but point is, if you’ve got a category for “hologram turning off” then she’s that, not a “human murder”)

    #222621

    Lily

    It’s all in Excel so I could even do a pivot table!

    Also yes, you’re quite right about Katerina, totally forgot she was a hologram. Which is dumb when that was the entire justification Rimmer used for killing her.

    I included all the deaths that happened under hallucinations, as although the people turned out to not be real, the crew were not aware of that at the time. The intent was still there, even if the body wasn’t.

    #222622

    Pete Part Three

    >if you’ve got a category for “hologram turning off” then she’s that, not a “human murder”

    Katerina doesn’t get “turned off”, though. She’s pushed in front of a car or something.

    “Your pleasure and pain responses remain the same”

    #222623

    Seb Patrick

    Katerina doesn’t get “turned off”, though. She’s pushed in front of a car or something.
    “Your pleasure and pain responses remain the same”

    If pushing a hologram in front of a car counts as murdering them (as in, if you can murder someone who’s already dead) then so does pressing a button to make them no longer exist. My quibble isn’t to do with the way it happens, but whether killing a hologram counts as “human murder”. If it does, then so does turning off Rimmer2 in Me2.

    (In fact, given the way holograms disappear when they’re switched off, if pleasure and pain responses remain the same, being quickly collapsed and compressed into a tiny metal box sounds like an astonishingly painful way to go)

    #222624

    KyoSo

    Herring isn’t a human either. He’s a facsimile designed to perform a task and then disintegrate upon completing it.

    It’s definitely attempted murder of an intelligent, sentient entity on Rimmer’s part, but I do not think you can consider Herring to be a human being. He’s basically a living piece of paper.

    #222625

    CB3

    Interesting. To be fair to the Dwarfers, quite a few on that list wanted to suck out their brains, or erase them from history altogether – but yes, still pretty damning.

    I’d possibly also add Howard Rimmer’s demise to the list of hologram deaths since it’s brought about by Lister’s reckless and unnecessary phone answering.

    #222626

    KyoSo

    I also think you’d need a distinct category for murders that were part of a hallucination that drove them to do things they wouldn’t do in real life. Considering Kryten shooting the fascist cop to be the murder of a person doesn’t seem quite right when it’s something he was driven to do as part of the despair-inducing hallucination. If in that same situation for real, Kryten would not have killed a human.

    Like, nice work on the chart. Very thorough. I just don’t think it’s fair to qualify something as the murder of a human if it happened in a dream, or if it was not a human being at all.

    #222627

    SoundableObject

    Lister attempted to murder Talkie Toaster but ended up leaving him in a repairable state.

    I’d put the simulant murder in Rimmerworld solely on Rimmer.

    If we are including hallucinations then I guess we can also count simulations. Kryten caused a few in Beyond a Joke. I seem to remember Lister shooting a Gelf point blank in the same episode but we don’t know if they survive.

    Shouldn’t the crew dying be put under accident along with Irene? Likewise Cassandra. Lister also accidentally killed Holly by leaving a bath on.

    #222628

    Lily

    If I could edit, I’d make Katerina a ‘Hologram murder’. It was the deliberate permanent destruction of her lightbee (smashed by the bus). I don’t believe deactivation is the same as death, as there’s always the possibility of reinstatement. They’ve turned Rimmer off and on more times than the red alert sign and he gives the impression of it being an inconvenience, rather than a painful experience.

    I’m not convinced about separating out deaths during hallucinations though. If Kryten gets a pass for killing the fascist, and Lister for killing the creator simply because they weren’t real, then Rimmer should also be forgiven for offing Katerina. For Kryten it caused despair, and for Rimmer it caused joy. If we’re using the “they were made to do it” reasoning, for both of them the squid evoked the appropriate emotion. We could argue that Rimmer only enjoyed it so much because that’s what the squid wanted.

    I did have Howard under other deaths – suicide, but he seems to have been missed off during transcription. I guess Lister was indirectly responsible, but I expect Crawford would have started shooting at some point regardless.

    #222635

    Ben Saunders

    If I had to pinpoint one of the reasons Red Dwarf is so great, it would be that “reckless and unnecessary phone answering” is a phrase that can be applied to the denouement of one of its episodes

    #222636

    Ben Saunders

    >I also think you’d need a distinct category for murders that were part of a hallucination that drove them to do things they wouldn’t do in real life
    Pretty much the “not guilty by reason of insanity” plea

    #222730

    Jonsmad

    Death by other factors.

    quantum entangled accident – Beggs choking
    (independently coincidental of each other and nobody’s fault your honour.)

    #222731

    Jonsmad

    Kryten – 3 female crew Nova 5.

    Accidental death but attributed to Kryten in dialogue in series vii implying possible off screen canonising of novel backstory of him cleaning the computer terminals with soap. Discuss.

    #222732

    Jonsmad

    Met crew and lived : prisoners and resurrected crew. hogie the rougie. snacky.

    death by other factors: major of warsaw – explosion.
    Bexley – explosion accident.

    replacement hologramme interviewees (alive or killed by switch off)

    #222733

    performingmonkey

    > Accidental death but attributed to Kryten in dialogue in series vii…

    Yeah I always found ‘you killed the crew, Kryten!’ an interesting little jump from what we actually saw onscreen in series 2…:p

    #222734

    Lily

    Met crew and lived : prisoners and resurrected crew. hogie the rougie. snacky.

    Did they though? I did consider the prisoners and crew, but we have no evidence if they lived or died. The crew went off in Starbugs and Blue Midgets, but a panicked escape in what are essentially ship-to-store vessels 3 million years in deep space doesn’t bode well for their longevity. Our guys had years of surviving on Red Dwarf as practice before they got stuck on Starbug, and they had a droid awake looking after them.

    Likewise, the options for the prisoners are bleak. Either they’re still down there in the tank, dumped onto an abandoned penal colony, or dead.

    Hogie? We last see him plugging a hull breach. I presumed his fate would be like the crab, but again we don’t see it so I left it out.

    Gif containing a crab being crushed to death.

    Snacky, yup, guess he’s off fixing lifts or something.

    #222735

    Ben Saunders

    The Mayor of Warsaw was an hallucination and I think Bexley was retconned by sending him off to a parallel universe

    #222739

    International Debris

    That crab gif just broke my heart.

    #222740

    Ridley

    We last see Hogey disrupting the VIII cliffhanger resolution post-credits. He wasn’t keelled.

    (I could have done without seeing a real lifeform dying horribly over and over, mind.)

    #222745

    Lily

    We last see Hogey disrupting the VIII cliffhanger resolution post-credits. He wasn’t keelled.

    I’VE NEVER SEEN THIS! :o

    I never watch the post-credits. How much other stuff have I missed???

    (sorry that the crab bothered you)

    #222751

    flanl3

    I never watch the post-credits. How much other stuff have I missed???

    Oh, you know, just 68 rounds of some of the best credits any show’s ever had.

    #222754

    Darrell

    Yeah, I don’t come here to see animals being murdered. Fuck it off.

    #222756

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    I’ve changed the gif to a link.

    #222757

    Ben Saunders

    Good gif that. I don’t remember the actual numbers but the sheer pressure difference between the inside of that pipe and where the crab is happily crabbing along is astronomical. He never stood a chance.

    I think Doug tweeted that there would be something after the credits before the episode began. As far as I’m aware it’s the only post-credits thing in RD other than “thank you very much” and some logos

    #222779

    Warbodog

    The Mayor of Warsaw was an hallucination

    But it was solid.

    #222780

    Warbodog

    Compiling an exhaustive catalogue of fictional murders and displaying indifference to real animal death…

    I’m not going to beat around the bush. Lily, are you a serial killer?

    #222784

    Lily

    I grew up catching and cooking shore food (crabs, cockles, winkles, shrimp, samphire, etc), so yes … I guess I am.

    #222877

    Phil

    Ignored this thread in case it contained any spoilers about “Cured.” Now I’m here and it doesn’t…but, surprisingly enough, it could have!

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