October 1, 2017 at 10:09 pm #222379
I watching some series 5 last night, and during Quarantine I was reminded of something I have seen mentioned before. Why in Demons and Angels is Kryten’s log on code ‘Kryten, additional zero zero one’, surely this should have fallen to the Cat as he was around before Kryten.
Well, ignoring the fact that the Cat has been able to come and go as he pleases around the ship long before Lister came out of stasis, it’s likely that up until Quarantine they didn’t bother giving Cat or Kryten any official status in the ships computer. Let’s just say Cat and Kryten had a little understanding with Holy. It wasn’t necessary.
However, in Quarantine Rimmer only provides Cat, Kryten and Lister single birth accommodations because Lister is the only registered crew member. Finally, after 4 years, Cat and Kryten’s alien status … as far as the official crew records are concerned, have come back to bite them on the arse.
They aren’t in any registration on the ship because they didn’t need to be, and Rimmer following the letter of the rule book used that to his advantage and only provided accommodation for Lister, but stuck all three of them in the room.
(it’s a bit of a silly rule really because you would expect Quarantine to be needed for plenty of non-registered crew members, but we’ll ignore that too)
So, once they get out of Quarantine and restore Rimmer to normal, I propose they set about giving Cat and Kryten official ship recognised registration of some sort. For whatever reason, Kryten is given additional zero zero one, and presumably Cat is given additional zero zero two … it has always been his lucky number after all.October 2, 2017 at 12:02 am #222384
The ‘zero zero one’ bit is from The Inquisitor, when Kryten’s been deleted from existence and Holly doesn’t recognise him (or Lister). Maybe it’s mentioned in Demons and Angels too, I don’t have that one committed to memory.
So continuity-wise (LOL), it depends whether you subscribe to broadcast order (Inquisitor before Quarantine before D&A), VHS order (Quarantine right before Inquisitor, both after D&A) or make up your own.October 2, 2017 at 12:43 am #222385
Also, Cat could very well just be Zero Zero Zero, since that’s where a computer would sensibly start numbering additionals.October 2, 2017 at 4:26 am #222386
“single birth accommodations”
You mean berth. None of those characters could possibly give birth.October 2, 2017 at 5:12 am #222387
I dunno, Kryten’s looked pretty pregnant.October 2, 2017 at 6:31 am #222388
‘I’ve been begging for a baby Kryten, a little animatronic baby to nurse. That’s never happened,’ Robert suggested.October 2, 2017 at 11:20 am #222395
Yeah ya kno what Warbodog, I’ve been a bit of a tit and got my episodes mixed up. It is Inquisitor and that does indeed come before Quarantine. Move along people, nothing to see hereOctober 2, 2017 at 11:35 am #222396
‘I’ve been begging for a baby Kryten, a little animatronic baby to nurse.
There was a likkle baby Kryten in a Smegazine strip years ago. I’ll have to try and find it out.October 2, 2017 at 1:02 pm #222397
Alternatively: Cat doesn’t get registered as a crew member until he starts piloting Starbug in VI, because up until that point he’s never actually done any work.October 2, 2017 at 3:50 pm #222408
Doesn’t Pree send the ship in to a sun dive because there’s no registered crew? So even if Kryten was registered in the past, it didn’t carry over to the nano rebuild. So it would appear that there’s no need to be registered to be able to fly any of the shops.October 2, 2017 at 4:12 pm #222409
Pete Part Three
>because up until that point he’s never actually done any work.
Scrubbed the floor in Queeg.October 2, 2017 at 4:23 pm #222410
>Scrubbed the floor in Queeg.
Different universe.October 2, 2017 at 4:38 pm #222411
Pete Part Three
Furry muff.October 2, 2017 at 4:51 pm #222412
So Kryten was ‘registered’ in The Inquisitor, but apparently not by the time we get to Quarantine (and The Inquisitor was recorded first).
Did Kryten and Cat ever become officially registered crew members though? In BITR Part 1, Lister is charged with smuggling two stowaways on board; there’s also that instance in Fathers and Suns, as mentioned above (would Pree have really suggested terminating registered crew, even if she *was* a mad goth bastard?).
Perhaps Holly informally gave Kryten that registration code just so he could open all the doors.October 2, 2017 at 7:50 pm #222413
>So it would appear that there’s no need to be registered to be able to fly any of the shops.
Well, I for one would sure prefer it fs my local Sainsbury’s weren’t careening out of control through space with absolutely zero expertise at the helm.October 2, 2017 at 8:28 pm #222416
It’s likely* that that code is for emergency situations, and Holly didn’t think Cat was really worth giving such a code.
*no it’s not, it’s likely Rob and Doug didn’t think about it as much as we are.October 2, 2017 at 9:27 pm #222417
> Alternatively: Cat doesn’t get registered as a crew member until he starts piloting Starbug in VI, because up until that point he’s never actually done any work.
Starbug no longer has contact with Holly when it’s separated from Red Dwarf, indicating it’s no longer connected to the JMC computer. So he’s not necessarily registered crew even then.October 2, 2017 at 10:11 pm #222425
‘Additional: zero zero one’ is actually Kryten’s original registration from the Nova 5, and they let him keep it and carry it over when he first came to Red Dwarf so he wouldn’t feel too homesick.October 2, 2017 at 10:17 pm #222426
Imagine going back to the early ’90s with Rob and Doug thinking “yeah, that’s a good line, it’ll look authentic, like he’s been given an additional, non-crew code” and then showing them this thread.October 3, 2017 at 8:41 am #222437
It’s worth pointing out that “Additional 001” does not, strictly speaking, make Kryten registered crew.October 3, 2017 at 10:35 am #222439
It’s from the Inquisitor.October 3, 2017 at 11:01 am #222440
>It’s worth pointing out that “Additional 001” does not, strictly speaking, make Kryten registered crew.
Well, it’s a registration code, and he’s using it in an attempt to prove to Holly that he is a registered crew member, so I reckon it probably does.October 3, 2017 at 12:00 pm #222444
If I went back in time to the 90s to talk to Rob and Doug, Additional 001 would be the last thing on my list to talk to them about/demandOctober 3, 2017 at 12:29 pm #222445
Are the adverts canon?
Also – Cat scrubbing the floors in Queeg is a different universe to The Inquisitor. I thought I knew those Rob and Doug episodes pretty well but this stumped me. Any chance of a teeny bit of help on this?October 3, 2017 at 12:51 pm #222446
I read it as the post-judgement reality in The Inquisitor being a temporary reality which was wiped when The Inquisitor was destroyed.October 3, 2017 at 1:59 pm #222452
That’s an interesting thought … how many realities/universes have our Dwarfers lived in? I’m talking about where the crews actions have in some way rebooted or changed the time line
From ‘The End’ to ‘Time Slides’.
‘Last Day’ to ‘White Hole’
‘Dimension Jump’ to ‘The Inquisitor’
‘The Inquisitor’ to ‘Out of Time’
‘Tikka to Ride’ to …. current?October 3, 2017 at 2:06 pm #222456
Pete Part Three
>I thought I knew those Rob and Doug episodes pretty well but this stumped me. Any chance of a teeny bit of help on this?
The theory that every series takes place in a slightly different universe. Red Dwarf’s plot-hole dodging equivalent of “A wizard did it”, basicallyOctober 3, 2017 at 2:15 pm #222463
‘Tikka to Ride’ to …. current?
Lemons and Twentica?
(I assume that stuff like Stasis Leak, Future Echoes and Give & Take don’t count because they’re closed-loop time-travel stories.)October 3, 2017 at 2:48 pm #222469
I’m not even so much talking about all the times the timeline may or may not have been changed by time travel (e.g. Timeslides, White Hole, Tikka etc.) as I am the fact that the first two series are explicitly stated to take place in a different universe from the ones that follow.October 3, 2017 at 2:49 pm #222470
(But I also do think that, since parallel universes are such an integrally established part of RD lore, that any time you see a continuity error you can quite happily use them to explain it away.)October 3, 2017 at 2:59 pm #222471
Oh I know you are Seb, I’m just interested in what we have actually seen within the show that explicitly shows timelines change.
I don’t think Lemon’s changes anything for anyone as it wasn’t really Jesus. It is possible that India gets the bag earlier than they would have done, but it’s also possible that the Jesus we see invented the bag all along due to being kidnapped by future space bums.
Twentica I had forgotten about. They never fix the timeline do they, so presumably Earth history from their point of view has always had a prohibition on technology in the mid 20th century?October 3, 2017 at 3:01 pm #222472
That’s true, Lemons could be closed-loop.October 3, 2017 at 4:18 pm #222476
Yes, dicking about with time travel and parallel universes can definitely be used as an excuse for a lot of continuity issues. This also works really well for Doctor Who, which has the worst continuity of any sci-fi show ever.October 3, 2017 at 4:43 pm #222477
Thanks! I hadn’t considered that.
That’s essentially true of Bottom too, isn’t it. (Even though I think a lot more fans (writers included) are willing to admit it’s just continuity errors and move on. But where’s the joy in that?)October 3, 2017 at 5:36 pm #222483
> Twentica I had forgotten about. They never fix the timeline do they, so presumably Earth history from their point of view has always had a prohibition on technology in the mid 20th century?
Which makes them assassinating Kennedy kind of pointless?October 3, 2017 at 5:36 pm #222484
Do they travel to parallel universes often in Bottom? It’s been a few years since I watched it.October 3, 2017 at 6:20 pm #222491
Well, Twentica would have spawned a new reality, so when they returned to their present that prohibition had always happened. But until they left it hadn’t. All timey-wimeyOctober 3, 2017 at 6:32 pm #222494
Doctor Who doesn’t have continuity, until it wants to. The Daleks and Genesis of the Daleks are completely incongruous with one another.October 3, 2017 at 9:02 pm #222504
There are too many cases of continuity-ruining moments in Who, from plot-level, like that Dalek one, to little things like Nardole explaining away the Marie Celeste despite it being explored in ‘The Chase’ 50-odd years previously.October 3, 2017 at 9:19 pm #222509
I think Doctor Who’s relationship with continuity is fine. When you can use it to strengthen a story, you use it. When you can ignore it to strengthen a story, you ignore it.October 3, 2017 at 10:09 pm #222515
>>”I think Doctor Who’s relationship with continuity is fine. When you can use it to strengthen a story, you use it. When you can ignore it to strengthen a story, you ignore it.” <<
This, one hundred perfuckingcent.October 3, 2017 at 11:23 pm #222517
And when the idea demands a revision, it allows for the strengthening of characters, concepts and themes.
In terms of Red Dwarf, retconning the relationship between Lister and Kochanski so they’d actually *had* a romantic involvement adds texture to the moment in DNA where Lister explains to Kryten being human isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. Okay, Grant and Naylor could’ve substituted another (previously unseen) love interest of Lister’s into the dialogue, or have him discuss something else entirely, but they chose to build on something we knew about the character in a way that allowed for verisimilitude. The fact that it contradicted (if memory serves) one line in Balance of Power doesn’t matter: if the idea’s good enough, then bollocks to continuity.
That’s not to say it isn’t important, but it should be flexible. If Doug came up with an incredible story idea, one that would really knock everyone’s socks off but contradicted a line of dialogue from, say, Quarantine, would you tell him not to go with it-? Such is the life of a writer, or any creative.
I like we’re just discussing some insignificant detail of a new series trailer with such attention to detail, btw: it’s heartening to see such passion for a new series.October 3, 2017 at 11:42 pm #222521
There are quite a few lines in the first series that are contradicted by the retcon, mostly in Balance of Power, but I’d say the marriage in Stasis Leak helps bridge them by letting us see Lister and Kochanski in a relationship, albeit a future one. So it doesn’t seem like such a big shock.
With Who, it’s an inevitability of a show that’s always been made on a story-by-story (and more recently, series-by-series) with an ever-changing crew of writers and producers. Occasionally it does grate a little (I seriously hate the retconning of why The Doctor left Gallifrey in the otherwise incredible Heaven Sent, partially because it totally screws up his discovery of the Daleks), but mostly it’s not too big a deal because the flexibility allows stories to be told to their best at the given time. I would never, ever expect them to try and incorporate the fact that The Tenth Planet is set in the ’80s into newer stories, for example. And, as discussed, anyone who really does want it to be held together, then the timelines reorganising themselves does a good enough job anyway.October 3, 2017 at 11:43 pm #222522
On the other hand, I DO enjoy a good canon-led show, like Star Trek generally tries to be.October 4, 2017 at 10:30 am #222542
Canon stifles television shows. I wish people would be content with the 700 hours of relatively canon-safe Star Trek already out and let the show do its own thing now. Who gives a monkey that the ships look mega-advanced and that the Klingons are orcs? As long as a good tale is told.October 4, 2017 at 6:17 pm #222565
>(I seriously hate the retconning of why The Doctor left Gallifrey
Rule one: The Doctor lies
Also they were already trying to retcon the Doctor into the reincarnation of one of Time Lord society’s founders called The Other or something stupid in the Sylvester McCoy/Virgin New Adventures era, which RTD and Moffat both draw heavy influence from, moreso than other eras of Who, especially since RTD actually wrote for the rangeOctober 4, 2017 at 8:05 pm #222573
It’s not so much a lie as it feels really out of keeping with The Doctor’s character for almost all of the show. Particularly how early on he met The Daleks, and how he responded to them. Just doesn’t work for me at all.
I never got so much of a New Adventures feeling from the new series, particularly given that The Master is given a much better backstory in The Dark Path than the totally contradicting one in The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords. I like the hints of mystery presented in the McCoy era, but not the conclusion of it in Lungbarrow.October 5, 2017 at 12:07 am #222582
>>”I never got so much of a New Adventures feeling from the new series, particularly given that The Master is given a much better backstory in The Dark Path than the totally contradicting one in The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords. I like the hints of mystery presented in the McCoy era, but not the conclusion of it in Lungbarrow.”<<
I dunno, I found the RTD era reminiscent of the New Adventures in the way it drew on interpersonal relationships, loose story arcs and high concept sci-fi played out in sub/urban settings. For the record, I think he did a fine job, too.
For what it’s worth, I think Moffat also drew on the NA line but took the taciturn, self-mythologising, continuity-heavy approach and, in my view, turned the show into a Gary Russell-style wet dream.October 5, 2017 at 12:41 am #222583
If you read The Writer’s Tale and some interviews with RTD, it’s very clear that the late McCoy/New Adventures era is what influences RTD’s era the most – but he does take it in his own direction and do his own thing with it. There’s some good articles, I think on the AVClub for instance, about how Rose as a companion is very much in the mould of Ace.
Sereis 8 is the best series of New Who and Moffat was a godsend but tbh he had a very long run and its time to see what somebody else can do with the show – I’m aware a lot of people don’t like him but who cares what other people think (^:
Anyway, yeah, Red DwarfOctober 5, 2017 at 1:09 pm #222591
I’m glad at least someone likes series 8, although I have to admit you’re the first person I’ve come across to sing its praises.
I really like the run of series 4 through to the 50th anniversary, and series 10. The rest I’ve found patchy at best. RTD’s was frequently too broad for my taste, while I have no idea what Moffatt was doing for a couple of years.October 5, 2017 at 1:56 pm #222593
I thought the first Moffat series – series 5 – was as consistently good as the rebooted show has ever got, when taken season by season.
I liked a lot of the RTD era but I never felt like its highs were quite as high as the Moffat era (with the exception of a couple of the stories that Moffat actually wrote within the RTD era, like Blink and the Library two-parter). The Eleventh and Twelfth Doctors have been my favourites of the modern era. The 50th anniversary episode was a fantastic romp. And under Moffat, the show has had what may be the best episode of the rebooted series with Heaven Sent.
Either way though, I think there’s a strong sense that it’s time for a change again, and I’m looking forward to seeing what the future brings.October 5, 2017 at 10:03 pm #222603
I agree pretty much wholeheartedly with Dave and sort of with Debris. Series 5 was phenomenal, Series 6 had some amazing episodes but some clunkers, but series 7 was pretty clunky. The Doctor Who general on 4chan rate S8 highly I think. But even S8 has two of the worst episodes the show has ever done – Kill The FUCKING EGG and Into The Forest Of The Shite.October 5, 2017 at 10:31 pm #222604
There’s something about the production of 8 which makes it look incredibly dull and flat to me, as opposed to the vibrancy of Matt Smith’s tenure.
And yeah, those two episodes are the absolute low points of Moffat’s time on the show, and pretty close to the bottom of all 36 series.October 5, 2017 at 11:29 pm #222606
I dunno… Despite my earlier remarks, there are some great episodes and individual elements in the Moffat era (not reversing my opinion, just giving credit where credit’s due) – but most of it’s left me cold and more than a little confused by the fanfare it’s received.
I’m not one of those joyless arseholes who gets a kick out of adopting a contrary position, btw: just sceptical.October 5, 2017 at 11:37 pm #222607
Btw, not being adversarial, but:
>>”If you read The Writer’s Tale and some interviews with RTD, it’s very clear that the late McCoy/New Adventures era is what influences RTD’s era the most – but he does take it in his own direction and do his own thing with it.”<<
I know and I agree.
>>”I’m aware a lot of people don’t like him but who cares what other people think (^:”<<
Is this payback for my Trojan thread? For what it’s worth, I like the cut of your jib, Ben Saunders – even if your avatar is questionable :)
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