Poll: Would you buy Smeg Ups/Outs on DVD?

Question based on some discussion over here and on the Webboard - this is purely speculative, not based on any upcoming release, or anything!

I was never actually that desperate for them to be released; but I’ve changed my mind more and more recently. Partly because of the realisation of just how much I love them - sure, some of the links aren’t that great, but some are rather amusing, and I find both tapes far more enjoyable than the series-by-series compilations on the DVDs. I think they hang together *really* well as great pieces of entertainment - it’s more than just the links, it’s the order of the clips, and just the way the whole thing is put together. It’d be nice to be able to replace my manky VHS copies with a nice DVD. They deserve a place on my shelf.

But also - with the coming release of the Remastered, it seems now like one piece of Dwarf history that is now missing. I like the idea that the DVD releases not only work as entertainment - but also work as part of the historical record. It’d be nice for Smeg Ups/Outs to be part of that, really, in the same way that the Remastered is going to be. In fact, I’d argue that they’re important historically for television as a whole - it was one of the first releases of its kind, and came way before TV shows got extra footage released as DVD extras. I don’t believe TV laserdiscs really had stuff like that.

Of course, extras would be interesting… but I do wonder whether there will be many left that it’s possible to get clearance for, after the Remastered release. So I’d probably be happy to buy it without extras - especially at a bargain price. On the other hand, if any extras were possible, then I’d love to see them included. That kind of judgement can only be made once we see the final extras list for Remastered, I guess.

(It would be *lovely* to see a little featurette on the making of them, though. It’s a little piece of Dwarf-history that hasn’t really been covered very well - and surely there’s some interesting stories to be had on the direction the links script took? It’s an odd piece for Dwarf - half in-character in the Dwarf universe, and half in the real world.)

I’m interested in how many other people feel the same, though. Would you buy it?

EDIT: Sorry to people who have just voted - I’ve just reset it because I’ve reworded the poll slightly. Apologies.

I’d buy it, but I can see that many people wouldn’t. Especially those who own nearly all the actual outtakes on the DVDs individually. Now, personally, I’d like to have the original vids on DVD - I can’t say I’d watch them that often, but probably once for nostalgia’s sake - because the links have never been released, and it’d be nice to have them all in one package, and as an historical record (as you’ve mentioned).

So, I’d buy it, and I’d like to see it happen - but I’m anticipating a similar debate as happened with the Remastered news from the “we’ve got it once, why do we need it wrapped up a different way?” crowd.

Yeah, I can understand why some people wouldn’t want them as well.

I must admit, I never expected the inclusion of the Xtended episodes on the Red Dwarf VII release - I expected the extra stuff just to be in the deleted scenes. But we got them. There really is a proper regard for the history of the series - to present each episode properly. Which is why we got Tikka in four different versions - which must have seemed like complete overkill to most non-fans, but which was just absolutely fantastic for us lot . I see any potential DVD release of Smeg Ups/Outs to be the logical conclusion of that - although I have no idea what sales figures would be like. I suppose Remastered will give some indication of that.

Meanwhile, whilst we get four different versions of Tikka, the Hancock DVDs don’t even get the original versions of some episodes included - instead, the 80s video versions were included, with ugly new credits, and loads of edits. It’s amazing how some DVDs have the utmost regard for the integrity and history of the shows - and some seem to be made by people who don’t give a fuck. And they were both released by the same company…

The links for the Red Dwarf Night Smeg Ups episode is on the VII release - but not the links from the actual Smeg Ups/Outs tapes themselves.

The Red Dwarf Night Smeg Ups links are adapted from the Ups/Outs link scripts though - but reshot. On the same set that the Xtended Tikka To Ride ending was done on…

> The Red Dwarf Night Smeg Ups links are adapted from the Ups/Outs link scripts though - but reshot. On the same set that the Xtended Tikka To Ride ending was done on…

That’s a FASCINATING day of production, that one. Xtended ending, TV Smegs intros AND Craig filming the new remastered ship-painting shot for the titles. Three differently-budgeted productions in one day!

I would say no to smeg ups/outs as a stand alone release, well I say no now, but I would probably buy it once I saw it…..
Damn, I should have voted ‘possibly’…

My vote is no. Not because they wouldn’t be interesting to have on DVD to replace my videos, but they aren’t worth spending money on again separately. Virtually all of their content is already available as extras on the series DVDs, right?

All of the actual smeg ups themselves are on the DVDs, yeah (apart from the ‘Souper’ one) - it’s just the links that aren’t. But to be honest, even if the links *had* been included, I’d probably still want a seperate release. It becomes greater than the sum of it’s parts.

It *is* true though, that this is pretty much a complete turnaround for me. I never used to be that interested in a DVD release, and wasn’t that fascinated by the UMD Smeg Ups release - mostly because it was UMD, but partly because of the content. But as my tapes get older and older, and as my Dwarf DVD collection gets more and more complete, I’ve just realised that I’d *really* like a decent copy.

> My vote is no. Not because they wouldn’t be interesting to have on DVD to replace my videos, but they aren’t worth spending money on again separately. Virtually all of their content is already available as extras on the series DVDs, right?

It’s ok, they probably wouldn’t release it in region 1, anyway.

Incidentally, I think separate releases would be a complete waste of time. Stick both tapes on one disc, and you’ve got a far more worthwhile purchase.

Oh, definitely. I never really thought it could be anything else. 3 hours a DVD - you’ve got about an hour left over on the disc after sticking both on.

Wonder what you would fill it with. The complete Red Dwarf Night Smeg Ups ep, and a short featurette on the making of the tapes?

^^
I wouldn’t go with the RDNight ep, since the links have already been released, and it’s not as if there are any new ups presented in the show.

As for any extras, might I suggest a feature on the making of the DVD releases themselves as a potentially interesting piece?

Oh, and I voted yes - mainly because my copies of both are practically worn out now…

The Red Dwarf Night Smeg Ups ep would be nice historically, and it’s interesting comparing what they changed about the links - but yeah, as entertainment, there’s not much point if the original Ups/Outs were on there.

Were the Japanese releases of Ups/Outs dubbed, or just subtitled? It’d be hilarious to hear Japanese actors dubbing fluffs!

Or fluffing dubbers.

Were the Japanese releases of Ups/Outs dubbed, or just subtitled?

“Is it subtitled?”
“What?”
“Is it subtitled, or dubbed?”

Jaysus…

> That’s a FASCINATING day of production, that one. Xtended ending, TV Smegs intros AND Craig filming the new remastered ship-painting shot for the titles. Three differently-budgeted productions in one day!

Ah, so THAT explains how come they could do the intro for that with Lister-falling-off-the-seat. Shoulda guessed.

I *still* haven’t worked out how they made the opening titles for the Red Dwarf Night Smeg Ups - which, oddly enough, combines the new Lister painting stuff with the old ship. The CGI replacement of the ‘Smeg Ups’ written on the side of the ship instead of ‘Red Dwarf’ is *amazing*.

Also - why didn’t they just use the Remastered version of the ship, instead of the original? It was the version they were currently using at the time, as they were pushing Remastered. Surely that would have been easier, wouldn’t it?

> They changed RD in Series III and it stayed the same for until Series VII.

It wasn’t changed in Series III. In fact it was mostly old footage recycled. There was a new model built for V, just so it could be exploded, and then old footage and stills were used again in VII.

> Then they changed it’s look to more of a sausage shape (which I hated). Then to go back and “re-master” Series I through III so that they had a different RD than VI, V and VI (?). (Why not just bring it in line with the RD we liked?)

The ‘sausage shape’ version’s first appearance was in the remastered editions. THEN it was used in VIII. Where on Earth did you get the idea that it’s a different version between III and III?!

Sandles:
Ooh, interesting. I didn’t know about this. Could someone stick this curio up on youtube, pretty please?

It’s quite possibly already there if you look…

Johnny> Then they changed it’s look to more of a sausage shape (which I hated). Then to go back and “re-master” Series I through III so that they had a different RD than VI, V and VI (?). (Why not just bring it in line with the RD we liked?)

The ‘sausage shape’ version’s first appearance was in the remastered editions. THEN it was used in VIII. Where on Earth did you get the idea that it’s a different version between III and III?!

I’m pretty sure that first VI is meant to be IV. And he doesn’t say at any point that it’s different between III & III :)

If, as I expect, you meant III and IV, if you’re following the remastered eps (say, from a country which released the remastered I-III on DVD rather than the originals), then since there’s no remastered IV or V, you go from the squat ship to the “sausage” ship between III and IV with no explanation.

>…you go from the squat ship to the “sausage” ship between III and IV with no explanation.

And then back again for the end of Nanarchy

> If, as I expect, you meant III and IV,

Oops, yes.

> if you’re following the remastered eps (say, from a country which released the remastered I-III on DVD rather than the originals), then since there’s no remastered IV or V, you go from the squat ship to the “sausage” ship between III and IV with no explanation.

True enough - but it’s not like that was the intention, and the post I replied to followed the chronology - original, VIII, then remastered. Johnny Walker seems to think that a) the ship was changed between the original second and third series, and b) the remastered effort was deliberately created to cause discontinuity, intending to stop at three series.

> >…you go from the squat ship to the “sausage” ship between III and IV with no explanation.

> And then back again for the end of Nanarchy

No! Stop getting Red Dwarf wrong! :-)

You go from the ‘sausage’ to the ‘squat’ between III and IV, not squat to sausage. And it stays squat even at the end of Nanarchy cos the ep had to re-use old footage and was made pre-remastering. THEN it changes to the long ship again at the start of VIII.

Smeg Ups/Smeg Outs would probably be quite a successful release, but I wouldn’t buy it myself. I’ve never disliked them, some are terrific, but they’re somewhat disposable IMHO and I’m quite happy with the DVD sections.

>You go from the ‘sausage’ to the ‘squat’ between III and IV, not squat to sausage. And it stays squat even at the end of Nanarchy cos the ep had to re-use old footage and was made pre-remastering. THEN it changes to the long ship again at the start of VIII.

Ah, right. Sausage= crap remastered ship. Squat= Nice old ship.

Sorry, wasn’t paying attention.

> Was this yet another redesign,

No.

> or the same basic model with higher rendering quality due to the extra time / processing power available before the series was released?

Yes.

Only if they release a version that is just smeg-ups without any of the bullshit Kryten to-camera bits, and get rid of the canned laughter on the fucking EXTERIOR SHOTS (why the FUCKING CHRIST did they do that??), you’ve got my money.

just smeg-ups without any of the bullshit Kryten to-camera bits

Erm, you mean… what’s on the DVDs already, then?

Whether or not you like the Kryten links (I think some are great and some awful), the point of wanting an Ups/Outs release is surely to get them?

and get rid of the canned laughter on the fucking EXTERIOR SHOTS (why the FUCKING CHRIST did they do that?

I always presumed they’d shown these bits to an audience at some point to get a reaction. After all, some prerecorded bits only have the crew laughing on it, so I can’t see any reason why they would stick canned laughter on some bits and not others.

Anyway, I don’t want Smeg Ups/Outs for just the links, or just the smegs. I want it because when put *together*, and the clips are edited in the order that it is, it’s the most entertaining way of watching the material.

Erm, you mean… what’s on the DVDs already, then?

I suppose I do. So my “No” remains a “No” then.

I always presumed they’d shown these bits to an audience at some point to get a reaction. After all, some prerecorded bits only have the crew laughing on it, so I can’t see any reason why they would stick canned laughter on some bits and not others.

Red Dwarf is no stranger to canned laughter. They used it in series VII and VIII, for when a joke didn’t get a substantial enough reception from the studio audience. But maybe you’re right - maybe they showed some of the clips at a convention or something.

They used it in series VII and VIII, for when a joke didn’t get a substantial enough reception from the studio audience.

[citation needed]

From reports I’ve heard, the VIII recordings wouldn’t have *needed* any canned laughter. I have heard that you can hear some “sweetened” stuff for VII though - the same laughter used a few times - but I can’t hear it myself.

But it’s a seperate issue really - I can’t imagine canned laughter was used on Smeg Ups/Outs, or it would have been used on all of it. But there’s loads of stuff that wasn’t edited into the episodes themselves that has audience laughter on - the Marilyn Monroe stuff from Better Than Life, for instance.

Re: model shot bloopers, there *is* gone-wrong engine noises dubbed on, yeah (which I find amusing) - but no audience laughter,

[citation needed]

Oh God, I don’t do research. But you can tell while watching the episodes if you’re an ubergeek like me who notices stuff that no one else gives a shit about.

The same peels of laughter can be heard over and over again in certain (not all) parts of VII and VIII, all series of Absolutely Fabulous, Bottom, Aunty’s Bloomers and many more BBC comedy sitcoms made in the same middle-nineties period. Some of the laughter heard in Dwarf can be heard in Ab Fab, for example. If you know it’s there, it’s very fake and can be very distracting.

It is no indication of the quality of each respective show, it just seemed to be de riguer for sitcoms at that time.

> I can’t see any reason why they would stick canned laughter on some bits and not others.

Aiming for consistency, I guess. I don’t think the general public have an issue with the laughs on the location stuff.

As for the audience laughter stuff…well, I think citation would be useful. I was in most of the VIII audiences and the laughter seemed plentiful enough. Laughs get moved to different takes, of course - best laugh from take one, best performance from take three - but I’ve never heard of Dwarf lifting laughs from elsewhere.

Worse yet, I know people have been able to pick out MY laughter from bits of VIII…

…but I’ve never heard of Dwarf lifting laughs from elsewhere.

They’re not lifting laughs from elsewhere, it just seems to be a stock sound effect used if there’s a lull in the laughter. I dunno, it’s just something I noticed with every BBC sitcom/comedy show made at the time.

At first you don’t notice it, but now I have quite an extensive DVD library that I’ve re-watched until my brain can be pulled sponge-like from my earholes, I can REALLY notice it, and it does become an annoyance. To me and my brother anyway, but obviously not to normal human beings.

> They’re not lifting laughs from elsewhere, it just seems to be a stock sound effect used if there’s a lull in the laughter

But you ARE saying it’s a laugh sound effect, right? And if it’s being used on different shows, it likely didn’t originate on Dwarf. Thus ‘lifted from elsewhere’.

I’ve heard of laughs beng moved around, or re-appropriated as per the Smegs, but always sourced from Dwarf recordings.

Quite sad if it’s true…

With regards to the Smeg Ups laughter - my point was that it’s strange that canned laughter would be added to some location stuff, but *not* some of the prerecord studio stuff.

BUT, now I think about it, the specific examples I think of - the prerecorded stuff for V/VI (with crew, but no audience laughter), and the Monroe stuff from Better Than Life (which has audience laughter), come from different releases. The former is Smeg Ups, and the latter is Smeg Outs. I haven’t got them here to check it - but could it be that canned laughter was used on Outs, but not Ups?

…but could it be that canned laughter was used on Outs, but not Ups?

Yeah. Agreed.

But you ARE saying it’s a laugh sound effect, right? And if it’s being used on different shows, it likely didn’t originate on Dwarf. Thus ‘lifted from elsewhere’.

Stop trying to trip me up with logic and reason.

Tried to look it up to see if it’s true, and I can’t find ANYTHING, dammit. It’s so frustrating. Lots of idiots saying they used “canned laughter” in VII and VIII but they don’t know what they’re talking about really - they think the whole series was canned. They are foolish.

>I’ve heard of laughs beng moved around, or re-appropriated as per the Smegs, but always sourced from Dwarf recordings.

Yeah, that’s all I’ve heard, too. Actually I thought I heard it from you, Andrew, but I could be wrong on that. I just remember reading somewhere that there was a logic in moving the laughter…such as the audience laughing too soon, they’d slide it back a little bit so that it came after the punchline and not over it…inappropriate laughter during things that aren’t actually jokes…

I wish I could remember where I read this if it wasn’t from you, Andrew, because I remember thinking it was fascinating.

It may well have been me, but chances are I was only mentioning stuff covered by Jem Whippey and Keith Mayes during Flibble interviews or whatever.

Still, as ever, I should probably add that I joined GNP is 2000. I was never there for the pre-DVD productions and so speak with limited authority. I’ve spoken to the people, seen a lot of the paperwork, but only since the first DVD (or, actually, since doing those questions for Whatever You Want) have I been directly involved with production. Prior to that, it’s all second-hand sources.

(Which, inevitably, lead to misunderstandings. Example: from what I’d heard and been told, it seemed that Clare Grogon was sent home by mistake during filming of Stasis Leak. I’m sure I’ve written as much. The new DVD interviews reveal that, in fact, she was NEVER booked for anything more than location filming. Who’s fault was it? Buy Red Dwarf: Remastered and find out!)

> Who’s fault was it? Buy Red Dwarf: Remastered and find out!

The shameful marketing has me hooked! ;)

> The shameful marketing has me hooked! ;)

Still, ahem, the, erm, shameful spelling should put you off… (“WHO’S fault”?! Gah!)

Well, I think this is the first time our poll result has actually been interesting!

More or less evenly-split…

I’m interested in how “separateable” the laughter ever is from the show, especially when it’s live.

I’ve always been interested in this as well.

My other query is regarding what is called “canned laughter” these days. Does it mean laughter from an ancient source which is splurged over something ala the Flintstones and Pink Panther cartoons, or laughter which is simply sourced from elsewhere?

I think the problem with defining “canned laughter” is that it’s a term which is *so* misused, it’s difficult to tell exactly what it is.

FWIW, I would count “canned laughter” as anything that didn’t originate from the audience recording for the specific show you’re watching. How widespread the use of limited canned laughter is across sitcoms that are shot in front of an audience when something didn’t get a laugh… I don’t know. It’s not the kind of thing anybody involved in any production is likely to talk about. But it must happen to some extent, I’m sure - although whether it ever happened for Dwarf, I don’t know. Some of the laugh tracks are fairly muted - especially for IV - so I would guess not. But it’s a guess.

It’s always been made clear [citation needed] that series VII didn’t use “canned laughter” because the performances were shown to a live audience, but from what I know [ie what has been said above, and from official series VII documentation] these laugh tracks were then messed around with to quite a considerable extent, basically a pro-tools editing job that must compromise the very notion of a “live audience reaction”.

The editing for the audience track was apparently a bit of a nightmare - this is mentioned on the DVD docco. Beyond that… well, maybe it’s something to ask Jem Whippy!

Smeg Ups and raw footage devotees can attest, I guess, that when the cast move beyond the boom, the drop-off is pretty swift. From what I understand, you can remove the audience’s tracks and, while a laugh will still be there, at that point it’ll be low enough to lose under sound effects (ever frame of Dwarf has background noise). Plus there’s a word of fine-editing and filter stuff now that makes a huge difference to how much you can take away.

(every frame of Dwarf has background noise)

Now *that’s* something I never even thought of! But yeah - it’s there from the first scene of The End onwards, isn’t it…

The problem with audience laughter and Red Dwarf is that it’s a very woolly science. When sitcoms were done live, or shot in one take - *that* was your audience reaction, and you could do fuck-all about it. To go from that to the most technically complex traditional sitcom ever made - and I honestly believe that - well, you’re going to have some compromises in the editing of the laugh track to make the damn programme work.

At what point does it become “unreal”? It’s a difficult question, and not a question that starts with VII, either.

Technically, it’s “unreal” as soon as you go beyond a live performance in studio, based on what I know of audio/video editing. Since we’re not talking home video, the sound is on a separate track to start with, right? Also, after even the most basic of video editing of scenes (not even picking from among the different takes), the soundtrack of the laughter would have to overlap in places or else it would get cut off.

A point of curiosity about this poll’s info— is it at all suspicious that all of a sudden there should be that many votes in a poll? But perhaps it’s simply the new trend. :)

http://www.ganymede.tv/poll

Since we’ve opened up the polling to non-registered users, the numbers have shot up. So, either more people are voting, or we have some seriously sad fucks lurking back there.

Ah, I didn’t realize you’d done that. In that case, this being TEH INTERNETS and all, which is really more likely? :)

There you go. It’s after the first clip. “The Smeg Ups” added to the side of the original ship - and I have no idea how they made it look so good! It seems a lot of effort for something when at that time the remastered version was both new, and the official version of the ship - so I wonder why they did it, especially when they use the new footage of Lister painting the ship. Was it created for the original videos and not used, or something?

The end of that first clip also has the stupidest bit of editing on Dwarf ever - the original clip, as seen on the Smeg Ups vid, ends with Danny shouting “Noel Edmonds” - but it’s changed to him saying “Smeg Ups. That’s gotta be Smeg Ups.” For some reason, I *really* object to it - I know it doesn’t matter, but it’s editing what is supposed to be reality, which is just annoying.

Yes.

After watching a load of VHS tapes this weekend… in addition to the reasons above for wanting a DVD release, I’d also like to add “picture quality”.

DVDs have spoilt me.

> Was it created for the original videos and not used, or something?

I wouldn’t have thought so. Bear in mind that the remastered editions hadn’t come out at this point (er…or maybe the first tape had; can’t remember). At that point the old ship was still familiar, the new one had yet to be ‘popularised’. (I use the term loosely.)

Can’t believe it was for the original video - it’s a (not entirely stable) tracking effect and, in 1997, would have been pretty expensive. Which might explain why a TV budget - for an entire night of programming - could afford it.

The new Lister makes sod all difference, though - the shot doesn’t show the ship, and was clearly filmed specifically. What DOES bug me about it is the way the elements are put together. Once the larger pull-back starts, the scale stops working and, in fact, an area Lister was painting red is revealed to now be white when it comes back into shot.

The Edmonds/Smeg Ups thing bugs me, too. Though I see the logic - it dates better, outtakes no longer being his thing - there’s something indefinably wrong-seeming about it. Plus, well, the Coleman stuff dated even faster…

The first video came out the Monday after Red Dwarf Night - so no, it wasn’t out yet. But the Remastered The End was shown the day before RDN, and the Remastered release is plugged in the A-Z. And seeing how expensive the shot would be to do, and how they were *really* pushing Remastered at that point… I just wonder why they didn’t get Veale to do another render and slap “The Smeg Ups” on the side of the Remastered ship.

But as you’ve said for other stuff - these things aren’t always logical…

God, I’d do anything for another Red Dwarf Night for the 20th anniversary - it was fantastic.

I liked Red Dwarf night, but the one thing that disturbed me was learning that Gary Bushell likes the show. For some reason, it makes vomit come up in my mouth and it tastes horrible when I swallow it again.

“It’s gotta be smeg ups” annoys the fuck out of me, as well. Perhaps more than most things in Dwarf lore. Except for Eternal’s inability to pronounce the word “Dwarf”, Garry Bushell completely misinterpreting the point of the show, and James O’Brien thinking that Dwarf was the first to do multiple things when it wasn’t.

The A-Z is… well, not very good. I am completely bemused by the inclusion of Gary Bushell… I mean, was he included at the behest of the BBC? Did Doug Naylor want him in there? It’s a bizzare choice. Gary, you’ve added nothing.

I’d rather have had a proper documentary.

> I’d rather have had a proper documentary.

Indeed. If only they’d hired someone to push in that direction…

The weird thing is about Red Dwarf Night is that as a whole, I have nothing but good feelings about it - but when you look closely at it, it’s pretty insubstantial. A good docco would have sorted that out. I wouldn’t trade Universe Challenge or Can’t Smeg Won’t Smeg for the world, though.

Hmmm. Add it to my list of reviews. I’d get to make fun of Patrick Stewart again, anyway.

I remember Red Dwarf Night with fond memories, but the A-Z was a huge letdown. It was so fucking irritatingly put together. The A section had Arnold Judas Rimmer, but no discussion about him, and the Z ‘Zat’s All Folks!’ makes me want to throw things. Universe Challenge and Cant Smeg, Won’t Smeg were good fun, though!

And yes, Patrick Stewart (much as I normally admire him) needs to see someone about his “libel.”

And he can’t read autocue for toffee.

>And yes, Patrick Stewart (much as I normally admire him) needs to see someone about his “libel.”

It’s amazing how BAD he is in A-Z. I’m not a huge fan of his, but I can safely say that he’s normally a pretty darn good actor. Normally I have no problem believing he’s whatever character he’s playing. But in the A-Z, where he’s essentially not supposed to be anyone but Patrick Stewart, he’s just appalling. It’s almost intentionally bad. Almost.

The other thing that gets me about the Patrick Stewart links is that fucking awful grey background. They couldn’t get anything better than that? I’m not expecting a huge set, but just something, anything else would do.

It looks the same as the Fast Show Night links, which also had a grey background, and looked equally as bad - although Whitehouse etc were great as usual.

The story also seems so unbelievable! I quite like The Next Generation, but I cannot conceive of it and RD ever looking at all similar. Why did he equate the two? The story’s bollocks, isn’t it?

Oh, absolutely. On the point of ringing his lawyer because Red Dwarf looks like a rip-off of TNG? I mean, I know the whole point of it is that he thought that superficially… but… well, it just doesn’t. Did he do the same about every single other SF show since 1987? Or, indeed, before 1987? If anything, Dwarf looks more like a cross between Doctor Who and Alien.

Either it’s a completely made-up story, or Patrick Stewart is a complete idiot. Neither explanation leaves him coming out of it with any credit.

Maybe 1998 was a dry year for him, so he had to get some publicity.

Makes me wonder if he saw Star Trek: Voyager (dear God!) and thought he’d sue them too. Because that’s more of a blatant (and fucking awful) TNG rip-off than Red Dwarf would ever be.

>Either it’s a completely made-up story, or Patrick Stewart is a complete idiot.

I definitely believe it’s made up. As the obvious teleprompting suggests. But I’ve always wondered WHO made it up. Did he make it up and not bother to learn his lines? Did someone at GNP write something up for him to say? If so, why did he agree to it? Couldn’t he have just said, “Oh yes, Red Dwarf, very funny show.” That would have been fine, and nobody’s going to fault the guy for putting forth an opinion like that the way they would for fabricating a legal action against the show.

>Makes me wonder if he saw Star Trek: Voyager (dear God!) and thought he’d sue them too. Because that’s more of a blatant (and fucking awful) TNG rip-off than Red Dwarf would ever be.

Eh? Both Star Trek shows were in the same franchise (maybe even some of the same writers? I’d have to check) so Voyager was a legitimate spin-off, not a rip-off.

The best thing about RD Night is probably Universe Challenge. Ironic, of course, since it’s the one part of it that’ll never get a commercial release.

God, imagine if it were done now with some of the stuff we got on the DVDs - imagine Dwarfin’ USA being shown to a wider audience?

Still, there’s a certain anniversary coming up next year… maybe with someone who “pushes in that direction” involved, we might get something a bit special…

> Eh? Both Star Trek shows were in the same franchise (maybe even some of the same writers? I’d have to check) so Voyager was a legitimate spin-off, not a rip-off.

What I meant was Voyager just re-hashed most of TNG’s storylines and not as well. The premise wasn’t incredibly different either. Voyager had bags of potential but decided to settle into tried and trusted lines of a previous version of the franchise. DS9, for all its faults, was different and embraced this fact.

Fair enough, but Patrick Stewart wouldn’t have been suing Voyager, whatever he thought of it. :)

> Fair enough, but Patrick Stewart wouldn’t have been suing Voyager, whatever he thought of it. :)

That’s true. Shame you can’t sue writers for constantly recycling the same stories. If you could, soap operas would be off the air for good (hooray!)

Given that he’s not one of the writers or creators of Star Trek, he wouldn’t really have had grounds upon which to sue Red Dwarf, either!

> Are people still holding out for the movie and/or a special being made one day, by the way?

We always will be…until the end of time.

And then if we ever get it, we’ll just wait for the sequel.

The thing is though, that is *not* what Doug Naylor says at the end of the VIII DVD docco, Simon. I quote: “I don’t consider the series done with, no.” He goes into a big speech about where Dwarf might go - a film, a TV series, or a TV special.

If anyone should know, it would be him. We know *nothing*, so I’m rather surprised by your certainty!

Oooh!

“Simon” has the ability to see the future, either that or he’s just a fucking cunt.

>”Simon” has the ability to see the future, either that or he’s just a fucking cunt.

…Or both

>…Or both

No. He’s just a non-future seeing cunt.

>No. He’s just a non-future seeing cunt.

Now that the idea of a future-seeing cunt has been suggested, I want one.

That’s a serious lifestyle choice you’re making there Phil… :oS

Well, the poll has closed - and that’s definitely the most interesting result we’ve had so far, I think.

It’s about equal whether people would buy it or not…

I agree the results are interesting. However, I’m not sure I agree that’s what they mean, though. :) You may very well be right, but they’re not statistically accurate either in the number of actual voters or the apparent balance in the results since people didn’t have to register to vote.

Unregulated polls so easily become a target for anonymous “fun” (and this site already appears to be a target for some trolls), which really waters down the results. I’d love to be proven wrong in this case, but I’ve never seen, or read in the writings of experts, of it being otherwise on the Internet. ;)

Oh, yeah, I know that. I’ve always said that these polls aren’t statistically accurate. They’re skewed beyond belief by any number of factors - not just the anonymous factor, but simply the fact that G&T’s vistors are hardly representative of the average Dwarf fan.

I was just talking specifically about the results of this poll. They’re not really representative of anything wider.

Hmm— Simon, I most certainly didn’t say all non-registered users here are trolls— hardly! I myself visited this site for a while before I decided to register.

I have neither called you a troll, nor verbally attacked you anywhere on this site, so please don’t jump on me because of a few posts I’ve made about the statistical accuracy of Internet polls. (If I thought you were a troll I wouldn’t be replying to your post).

I strongly object to any implication that I belong to a “clique”— unless it’s simply being identified as a fan of Red Dwarf. I have never met any of the other people here in person, and readily interact with friends and strangers equally wherever I go in the virtual RD world.

As for 1 IP addess per user, as I understand it, people who know how can get around that. Some people’s computers even use a range of IP addresses. But I’ll leave that question to someone with more technical understanding than I have. :)

I strongly object to any implication that I belong to a “clique”

Leelu’s right. She’s definitely not in our clique.

> So far I’ve had my name put in quotes (whatever that implies), been called a cunt and a couple of other things

Everybody here is a cunt…we will embrace your cuntness

>Leelu’s right. She’s definitely not in our clique.

So you mean you’re happy identified as being in a “clique”? Interesting. Isn’t it used negatively by most people, like “critic”?

The word “cunt” is used negatively by most people as well, but you’ll find we’re generally quite liberal about using it about ourselves and each other round here.

Anyway, I think Ian was joking.

I think, to be fair, it’s probably the fact that I said this was the most interesting result we’ve had so far which prompted that reaction, rather than the actual result itself. If I’d said that about any other poll, the same complaint probably would have come up, whatever the result.

Background noise is there on every frame of Red Dwarf

The only time you ever seemed to be aware of the noise actually NOT being there would be in Quarantine when the fans stop during Rimmer’s W.O.O. bout.

Also I did notice that the sound effects department seemed to have used a WWII Warplane for the general hum of red Dwarf, but just played an octave or so lower…

> Also I did notice that the sound effects department seemed to have used a WWII Warplane for the general hum of red Dwarf

Actually it’s the sound of one Jem Whippey. He was an assistant back then, so recorded a lot of the source noises Dwarf used throughout those early series. He claims - and hey, it may be apocryphal - that the Dwarf ship hums are the sound of his own gurgley throat, suitably deepened and messed-about-with.

All the sound on the remastered was rebuilt from scratch. Sometimes it’s now sound, sometimes it’s the old FX mixed differently. Aside from anything else, the new mixes were in stereo rather than mono - that alone accounts for a different general feeling.