RED DWARF NEEDS YOU News Posted by Ian Symes on 9th October 2007, 17:36 Right so. There’s going to be a piece on Dwarf on Points of View this Sunday, 14th October at 5:10pm. You can watch the video here. It’s a great idea, but unfortunately, the video itself is a bit rubbish. It fails to mention the reason we’re all campaigning for a ninth series now – the “no longer interested in the audience” quote. It says “look at the viewing figures”… but doesn’t say what those figures were. Combined with the seemingly random images and bored-sounding delivery, I reckon it’ll do the cause more damage than good. But we can fix this… I hereby appeal to all readers of G&T to contact Points of View, and urge the BBC to reconsider Red Dwarf. Yes, that’s all readers, even those outside the UK, as highlighting the international appeal of the show will give them yet more reasons. The more people who write in, the more screen time we’ll get in the programme. So email pov@bbc.co.uk, or ring 0870 908 3199 NOW. Don’t be rude or stroppy; we don’t want to come across as a bunch of whinging fan boys, even though we probably are. And make sure you get across in your message: The inherent wrongness of the BBC’s “no longer interested in the sort of audience Red Dwarf used to attract” reasoning, considering they’re a public service broadcaster The sci-fi/fantasy boom in TV at the moment – Doctor Who, Heroes, Life on Mars… even Hyperdrive Facts and figures – over 8 million viewers for VII and VIII, highest rated comedy ever on BBC2, DVD sales consistently in the Top 5 BBC releases each year It’s naive to think that this will definitely make a difference to the chances of a Series IX, but it can’t do any harm. There are certain ways of going about this; starting online petitions, ranting about it in blogs (guilty as charged) and fanboy stropping will almost certainly do fuck all. But if as many of us as possible write in to the BBC… well, it’s a start.
I’ve just got an auto-reply from Points of View… Thank you for emailing Points of View . The programme is currently off air until Autumn 2007 *pulls spastic face*
After THAT comment, I don’t especially want Red Dwarf on BBC the anymore, simply because I don’t want them to get any more profit or benefit from Dwarf’s name. Can’t we bugger off to ITV under Paul Jackson, go head to head with Hyperdrive and laugh heartily?
Dear Points of View, It has become clear, to me, that we dealing, with a BBC who no longer wants Red Dwarf:
My email’s sent. The only problem is that I sound like someone who sends letters to PoV, but that can’t be helped, I suppose.
“After THAT comment, I don?t especially want Red Dwarf on BBC the anymore, simply because I don?t want them to get any more profit or benefit from Dwarf?s name.” You mean that we’re no longer interested in the kind of company that Red Dwarf used to be produced by? I don’t care who does it if only I get more Dwarf. My profit would be higher than theirs. Worse, they’ll make money off Red Dwarf or something else so their profit is guaranteed, but I can get that kind of kick from Red Dwarf only. Meep. I’ll email them and probably also call. Working on a message for now that doesn’t sound like I’m an idiot. Good thing I had the podcast practise, G&T people! :D
> You mean that we?re no longer interested in the kind of company that Red Dwarf used to be produced by? Quite! I wonder how “I’m no longer interested in paying a license fee for the sort of programmes you broadcast” would go down?
> I wonder how ?I?m no longer interested in paying a license fee for the sort of programmes you broadcast? would go down? Depends. Is that statement actually true?
I had to respond to this, and sent the following considered email to POV: Dear Sir, It is with some dismay I logged into a number of entertainment news websites today to discover that Red Dwarf Series IX has been turned down by the BBC. Clearly I fully understand that there were justified reasons for this should the rumour turn out to be true, however I was surprised that the quote from an un-named BBC source stated that ‘BBC2 was no longer interested in the type of audience that Red Dwarf used to attract’. I find this quite surprising, seeming as BBC2 has a science fiction comedy show called Hyperdrive which seems to be a poor mans Red Dwarf. Whilst the TV landscape of today is different to that of ten years ago in terms of ratings that could be achieved, I still feel that Red Dwarf could compete quite competently with other channels in the 2100-2200 slot. Certainly with the risk and expense the BBC took with bring back Doctor Who (which was an untested commodity 16 years in the waiting), I am surprised that one season of 6 episodes of Red Dwarf could not be funded. Please could the BBC explain quite why such a decision has been made, especially where the Red Dwarf brand is still a strongly recognised brand, and a very high seller of merchandise, DVD’s etc. Your Sincerely John Batty
(re: you) Good letter. (re: Karl) I don’t know what the legal situation is with trying to take Red Dwarf some place else, but I think in the context of RED DWARF NEEDS YOU FOR POINT OF VIEW, threatening the BBC might not be the best strategy.
Someone else tell her I’ve got gussets to scrub. No seriously, I was joking Marlene. Although didn’t the Labour party threaten the BBC not too long ago? Also, yes. Great letter.
Excellent work, John. My letter, for the record: Dear Points of View, I, along with hundreds of fellow fans, recently attended the annual Red Dwarf convention. The biggest piece of news we received was that creator Doug Naylor had recently pitched a new series of the show to the BBC, only to be told that “the BBC is no longer interested in the type of audience Red Dwarf used to attract”. This sort of reasoning is completely against what a public service broadcaster should stand for. The BBC Charter states it “exists to serve the public interest”; it should provide for all license-payers, and not discriminate against any type of audience. Besides which, Red Dwarf is one of the BBC’s biggest success stories. It achieved over eight million viewers on BBC2, setting a record high for comedy on the channel. Even now, nine years after the last series aired, the fanbase is still large and active, with the large DVD sales testifying to this. Maybe the time is right for Red Dwarf to return? Science fiction and fantasy seems to be hugely popular at the moment, with Life On Mars, Heroes and, of course, Doctor Who amongst the biggest shows of the last few years. If the TARDIS can make a triumph return to our screens, why not Starbug? Yours, Ian Symes, London.
Its very difficult I feel to get the right tone across to the people that are reading the letter, without sounding too emotionally involved or aggressive. Like what has been suggested above, I doubt much will change, however it is only BBC2 that have turned it down, other channels have different commisioners, and whilst BBC3’s remit maybe to only have brand new programmes, there is an argument for Dwarf, if only to call it Blue Midget :-) Still be interesting to see what comes of this, possibly nothing, however I’ll be concerned if there are pictures of you all in the paper with smashed tellys and major protests against the BBC!
Bally good work so far, folks. I think the crux of the matter isn’t necessarily that we’re all DESPERATE FOR A NINTH SERIES (many fans actually think it would be a bad idea) – it’s the manner in which we, as a fanbase, and Dwarf as a property, have been so summarily dismissed. To me, that’s the most important thing to get across.
Afraid I’m in two minds about this. I think the decision sucks and the BBC’s apparent lack of respect for the show and the fans is appalling. If it wasn’t for the fact that I REALLY don’t want a ninth series I’d be inclined to muck in. Naturally, I will commit suicide at once.
Afraid I?m in two minds about this. I think the decision sucks and the BBC?s apparent lack of respect for the show and the fans is appalling. If it wasn?t for the fact that I REALLY don?t want a ninth series I?d be inclined to muck in. I have a similar – though not exactly the same – problem. The thing is – I don’t think VII and VIII are very good. At all. I kinda try not to be wholly negative about them, because otherwise they’re depressing to write about (and to try and avoid VII/VIII arguments, because they’re beyond tedious these days)… but hand on heart, I just don’t like them. Now, do I want more telly Red Dwarf? Yes – because I want the chance for the show to go out on a high. And I totally, TOTALLY disagree with the BBC’s reasons for not recommssioning the show. But if I say I want the show recomissioned, then someone can just turn round and say “But you hated the last two series!” And I haven’t got an answer to that. It’s important to note that LOADS of people loved the last two series anyway, so I’m only speaking for myself here, not the whole of fandom – or, indeed, the up to eight million people who tuned into some episodes of the last series. Which is perhaps the main point. And I *do* think Doug Naylor has it in him to make any potential ninth series or specials totally excellent. But I can’t deny that the whole thing makes me feel slightly uncomfortable.
Personally, I could have lived with any number of reasons the BBC had for not taking it on. Budget reasons, timing, even having a full allocation of Sci-Fi and/or comedy to deal with. Whilst a blow, it would have been understandable perhaps.. Saying they are no longer interested in the kind of audience it once had though, I find appaling…
Well, I think if you do want more Dwarf and you do strongly take umbrage at the BBC quote then it’s worth making a fuss. If anyone says ?But you hated the last two series!? then they can fuck off because they’re missing the whole point. I understand it making you feel uneasy – the thought of fighting for something I might hate doesn’t exactly sit right with me, either – but, at the end of the day I do want to take the risk of having more Dwarf and I do want to take the BBC to task about the comment, so I think it’s well worth making this fuss. I guess the reason why we’ve all reacted so strongly and quickly in contacting PoV is beacsue we’re scared that the video clip that’s been submitted is going to paint us in completely the wrong light and completely lose the point we’re trying to get across.
> Saying they are no longer interested in the kind of audience it once had though, I find appaling? Hopefully if the number of mentions of that quote is high enough we’ll get some sort of official response through the show. It’d be nice to bury the issue, even if it’s just a ‘it was the comment of one person and not necessarilly the opinion of the BBC’ type thing.
If they did bring back a new series (which I know is unlikely) would Rob Grant be working with Doug Naylor again? I mean they did do Bodysnatcher.
Have just read this back and realised how little sense it makes. “Dear Points of View, I’m somewhat of a science fiction, and a comedy fan, and have enjoyed the BBC’s recent revival of the sci-fi genre, from Life on Mars, to Torchwood, Doctor Who, and Hyperdrive, as well as documentaries on BBC Three and Four looking at classic sci-fi, such as John Wyndham novels, Doomwatch and Blake’s 7. I am therefore, rather disappointed that the BBC recently turned down Doug Naylor’s offer to make a ninth series of Red Dwarf, on the grounds that it is ?no longer interested in the sort of audience Red Dwarf used to attract?. For a public service broadcaster, this fixation on achieving ratings, seems slightly out of place, and rather disrespectful of a programme which maintained consistently high viewing figures for over a decade. It also seems bizarre, given the resurgence of the sci-fi genre. It seems that, more than ever, British science fiction is undergoing a renaissance, and British comedy is proving more popular than ever, particularly in the US. I cannot see how a new series, or one-off special, of Red Dwarf, could fail to attract a large audience. It was after all, the highest rated comedy ever shown on BBC2. For starters, the programme has a massive fanbase, spanning several generations, and all across the globe, and whilst this would provide the backbone of the audience, it is likely that audience figures would be much higher as ‘casual’ viewers who watched the show first time around, would also tune in. Also the DVD sales figures for the series consistently rank amongst the top five best selling BBC DVD products. Basically, the decision to abandon any future series of Red Dwarf, due to a projected lack of audience seems wrongheaded and disrespectful and potentially damaging. The same decision was once made regarding Doctor Who, and the new series have proved some of the most popular programmes on television over the past two years. I hope those responsible at the BBC will consider my points, and take into account that the demand for new Red Dwarf is out there, and they would be foolish to ignore it. Paul Muller – Southampton “
Personally I think the more mentions of sci-fi and conventions the more likely they’ll back away from it. Surely a ‘cult’ ‘sci-fi’ show doesn’t have a place to be mentioned on the BBC’s smug cosy Sunday evening schedule where it might frighten some old dears. I bet the BBC bigwigs don’t even think Who is sci-fi, and they’d most likely cringe at the thought of Who conventions and fans lining up all their classic DVDs in story order alongside copious memorabilia. Some people just have a big bee in their big fucking bonnet about that sort of thing. Either that or they simply can’t or refuse to see what joy a show like Dwarf can bring to people. Maybe because when they’ve left their BBC office for the day, done their lines of coke, fucked their whores and returned home to their 2.4 children (whom they proceed to berate if they haven’t done well at school, despite them not actually giving a fuck beyond the ‘I don’t want my kid to show me up’ level) with their brains addled beyond reasoning, comissioning a ‘cult’ show, as they would call it, would be about as laughable a prospect as giving up the charlie and the women in favour of treating their families right. Stupid, pathetic, ignorant BBC cunts. Performingmonkey – Lancashire
I’m gonna ring in tomorrow actually. Once I’ve finished listening to the new Radiohead album. Instead of whining about the BBC I’m simply gonna say how much I would love Dwarf to return, how it’s always been my favourite show, how the world would be a better place with new Dwarf in it. I refuse to be a whinging Points Of View complainer.
An e-letter writing campaign, eh? Nothing I can’t handle–lemme at it. I also like how you managed to work in a cunt joke even as you’re trying to galvanize the RD fanbase (the tooltip-text-thingy with the picture). It’s why I hang out here.
Darling fascist bully-boys, Give us some more Red Dwarf, you bastards. May the seed of your loins be fruitful in the belly of your woman. Baz. Perhaps not. But I find myself agreeing with John. I want more Red Dwarf on the television, but I want the old Grant Naylor team doing it. It’s a quandary.
Personally I think the more mentions of sci-fi and conventions the more likely they?ll back away from it. Surely a ?cult? ?sci-fi? show doesn?t have a place to be mentioned on the BBC?s smug cosy Sunday evening schedule where it might frighten some old dears. Well, yes. But it has a place on the BBC’s Thursday evening schedule.
Dear Points of View, I am some what of a Red Dwarf fan, owning all of the DVD releases and regularly checking both official and fan-run websites. I, along with many other fans, have long believed that if Grant Naylor Productions approached BBC regarding a revival of Red Dwarf they would defiantly take the opportunity based on the ratings that Red Dwarf previously attracted combined with the recent sales of the DVD being hugely successful. As you can imagine I was somewhat baffled when I found out that the BBC has turned down Red Dwarf and I was even more baffled when I found out the reason for this was that “The BBC is longer interested in the audience Red Dwarf formerly used to attract”. Shouldn’t the BBC be interested in every type of audience, being a public service broadcaster? I think Red Dwarf deserves a conclusion and now is the perfect time for it. Jason Addy, Rotherham
Just thought I’d copy in my Mum’s email to PoV… Dear Sir/Madam, I have been a fan of “Red Dwarf” since it began in 1988. I have recently heard rumours that the BBC is not going to commission another series, because we “are not the kind of audience the BBC wants to attract.” I am 53 years old, an ex-teacher and writer for educational magazines. You are not seeking to attract me? A member of your biggest audience demographic- the baby boomers, I have to assume then that you are seeking to attract the younger demographic element. Again given the popularity of programmes such as “Life on Mars,” “Doctor Who” and “The Sarah Jane Adventures” with younger people, I am unclear about why you consider “Red Dwarf ” to be of no interest. There is still a very large world wide fan base for “Red Dwarf” and the last two series consistently had audiences of over 8 million. Ratings aside the BBC is supposed to be a public service broadcaster and as such should provide a range of programmes not provided by other TV companies. You are still making “Last of the Summer Wine,” which I cannot believe has a larger fan base than “Red Dwarf.” Perhaps you could explain who the BBC is being aimed at these days, is it the very elderly or the young, because I consistently feel left out in the middle. Please consider producing a new series of “Red Dwarf,” I believe that it could be as big a hit as “Doctor Who.” Yours faithfully, Jane Moran.
Didn’t Red Dwarf rank as most popular Science Fiction in a recent Radio Times poll? In which case it might be worth knocking a few letters their way – while they might not be able to help commission a new series if the letters do a get published a wider audience would become aware of the situation. (It is, after all, the UK’s top selling magazine.)
Mista B.B Cee. Why do you always have to ruufful ah feathers, and annoy us with your inconsistent opinions on science fiction shows. PS. Wud you like a flask of bacon.
“The BBC is longer interested in the audience Red Dwarf formerly used to attract”? It doesn’t matter how often I read this and try to figure out the logic of it all, it still doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever. It could mean a number of things I guess, but any of the meanings I come up with do not fit in with what the BBC have always stood for, or at least, what I thought the BBC stood for. And that’s what narks me, both as a licence fee payer and as a Red Dwarf fan. They could have used a number of excuses for not taking it up but this statement is oh so wrong… I’ve no doubt if a reply or response was ever made it would claim that it was taken out of context with some twisty turny excuse and we would be no further along the line. In any other industry or organisation the person responsible for this statement would be answerable to their customers, are the BBC above this? who knows.
Another point this statement fails to take into consideration is the ‘middle aged’ fans like myself that have raised 2nd generation fans…. When Dwarf first aired there were two fans in our household, that figure now stands at five (well 4 as my eldest has moved out but you get the drift). A similar pattern exists with several of my friends. The point is, it’s not only a case of not wanting the ‘used’ to be fans, but it also ignores the ‘newish’ fans that didn’t make up the original 8 million. Maybe the BBC believe that the 30 something fans of then have all taken up gardening or knitting and watching songs of praise and strictly come dancing. Shit, even my 74 year old Father-in-law says they dont make shows like Dwarf anymore quality wise.
What we need to do is get a video camera and walk the UK asking EVERY person if they would like new Red Dwarf made and then send the tape to the BBC…who’s with me?
I’m with you all the way! As long as you make all the necessary arrangements, I’m more than willing to appear in your video. Anyway, e-mail sent, for all the good it wil do.
Every single British Citizen will be asked, and if we have time, the entire world. And if they say “no” we will stab them to death and then their opinion will no longer matter. :-D
I recently moved from the UK to the US. I’m still a British citizen though, and I will definitely be sending an email to Points of View. The BBC appears to have become a Confederacy of Dunces recently, hasn’t it?
That is an amazing wallpaper! I would set it to my desktop but it’s too depresing to look at every day.
To those who are uneasy over the potential quality (of which I am one). The two things this is really about are. I) Raising the issue of THAT remark, and the sheer wrongness of it from a public service broadcaster. II) The option for GNP to make a ninth series. Let’s worry about the quality issue at a later date, for now focus on the fact your favourite show doesn’t even have the option to rectify past crimes despite being one of BBC2’s most successful programmes of all time.
> I would set it to my desktop but it?s too depresing to look at every day. I currently have it as my desktop (one of them anyway, dual monitors rock!!!) to remind me of how fucking stupid some people can be.
Okay, a controversial point here, I suspect but… Do you really think that the so called quote is actually a direct quote from somebody at the BBC? Because it sounds all wrong to me. It sounds like a paraphrase of an understanding gleaned from a discussion, rather than a direct quote. It doesn’t help that I’m hearing it about 4th hand from you who heard it from Andrew who heard it from Doug who heard it from some source that isn’t being named for no particularly good reason so far as I can tell and so I’ve no one to ask the questions like “Who said that?” “In what context, exactly was it said?” and so on. Is there a letter with the phrase? Was it mentioned at a big media party? Was it a phrase directed squarely at a written proposal and delivered in a pitch meeting? And is it the be all and end all? How many times did different BBC departments reject the original before one of them was talked into it? The BBC is massive, why is one phrase from an unknown source thought to be a death knell? Now, cards on the table, I am currently working for the BBC but these are MY views and I have NO inside information at all, and if I did I wouldn’t speak on the matter except regarding facts that were public knowledge because I rather like my job and have no intention of losing it. But I’m not standing up for them because they employ me, only because the phrasing really doesn’t ring true as a direct quote. I’d like to know who is meant to have said it, and exactly what was said before I got up in arms about it. And, actually, I’m not going to get in on a campaign to resurrect Red Dwarf as I thought series 8 was dreadful and don’t want to see more of the same and fear it would actually get worse so maybe you want to ignore me but I just felt like pointing out that you’re basing a mini campaign on hearsay and it might be worth verifying the facts somehow first if you possibly can.
*waves to cma* I think we’re all aware that this quote has just come from “someone from the BBC that Doug spoke to” rather than “The BBC”. But the point is that Red Dwarf IX has been rejected by the BBC, and we’d like to reverse that decision. Focussing on this quote is a way to embarrass the BBC into reconsidering. If we all wrote in demanding new Red Dwarf *without* mentioning this new information, it would just seem like a random, arbitrary campaign based on nothing. Fact is, we’d all assumed that if Doug wanted to make more telly Dwarf, the BBC would lap it up. Now we know that he does, and they won’t, we want to change it. Using this quote means that there’s a proper issue for them to address, rather than just dismissing us.
> who heard it from some source that isn?t being named for no particularly good reason so far as I can tell Hey Max. Working in the industry the logic should be blindingly obvious…
To those who are uneasy over the potential quality (of which I am one). The two things this is really about are. I) Raising the issue of THAT remark, and the sheer wrongness of it from a public service broadcaster. II) The option for GNP to make a ninth series. Let?s worry about the quality issue at a later date, for now focus on the fact your favourite show doesn?t even have the option to rectify past crimes despite being one of BBC2?s most successful programmes of all time I myself am not uneasy about the potential quality of a new series, I have faith that 10 years will have given Doug enough time to come up with some awesome material. However I do think Karl makes an excellent point, those of you saying “Well series VIII was rubbish so why would we want any more of that?” You’re judging without even giving them a chance! How do you know that Series IX wouldn’t be the best ever? You don’t and neither do I, because we’ve not seen it! It could be the best we’ve seen, it could be the worst we’ve seen… but we’ll never know until it’s made will we? This email campaign might not yield any results whatsoever, but at least we’ll have tried!
I can completely understand the campaign and that this is actually about the reasoning of the decision rather than the decision itself. But while it would be awesome if fan reaction actually prompted the BBC to reverse a decision (though unlikely), the result would be something I’m not enthusiastic about seeing. True, we couldn’t judge series 9 until we saw it (and the BBC are not even giving us the option) but, to all intents and purposes, reviving a comedy series that hit its peak over 15 years ago isn’t something I look forward to and am prepared to support in any capacity. Red Dwarf works for me because of innovation and laughs. Listening to the cast and crew reminisce about series 8, leads me to assume that they truly believe that this was the show on form. The reliance on old ideas (Future Echoes, Luck Viruses) and farcial situations (Kryten plays a trick on Rimmer and Lister…hilarious!) means I’m inclined to disagree. If that’s the direction they want to take for future episodes, count me out. I find it awkward telling people that I like Red Dwarf because I’m always inclined to add the addedum “but not the later episodes as they were crap”. I have a problem with about 30% of Red Dwarf’s output, I don’t need that figure increasing. So, yeah series 9 could be good (an idea for a poll…), but, um, it probably wouldn’t be. I will watch POV with interest and genuinely hope this campaign is at least treated to an elaboration and confirmation of the BBC’s decision, but this pessimistic old sod is going to have to vote with his feet on this one.
Pete I totally understand where you’re are coming from, my feelings about Dwarf’s output are similar and I share that same concern ‘Do I want more crap dwarf?’, the immediate answer is of course no. However, then I remember things. I remember the series VII backlash and how the typhoon of excitement that brewed up over series VIII and getting to see Red Dwarf filmed made all the badness seem irrelevant. Ultimate now I’m thinking even if Series 9 isn’t to my liking I’ll always have my shows and what I feel Red Dwarf represents who cares what someone else thinks. It’s blind optimism to think the show could return to it’s absolute zenith but in this case it could be such a great journey should we even worry about the destination?
It?s blind optimism to think the show could return to it?s absolute zenith but in this case it could be such a great journey should we even worry about the destination? I think the problem with this is that it’s an argument from a hardcore fan’s perspective. We shouldn’t be arguing this from the viewpoint of a statistically insignificant bunch of hardcore fans – that means nothing to the BBC. Why would the BBC and the general public worry about our journey? Now, I object to the BBC’s statement because the statement itself is a pile of bollocks, obviously, for all the reasons that have been stated (it’s an absolutely shameful statement for a public service broadcaster). And I can argue that loads of people want a Series IX or specials, and that millions of people watched and enjoyed the last two series. And that’s all fine, and are reasons why the BBC should recommission the show. But I still can’t help that the fact that I don’t like the last two series fatally weakens my argument to people outside the fanbase. They might not be interested in all the fan stuff – but when someone doesn’t like the last sixteen eps of a show, but is fighting for more, it looks ODD. And I don’t think saying “But I want the chance for the show to be great again” is a good enough answer back to it – even though, from my perspective, it’s true. It just doesn’t sound convincing.
However I do think Karl makes an excellent point, those of you saying ?Well series VIII was rubbish so why would we want any more of that?? You?re judging without even giving them a chance! How do you know that Series IX wouldn?t be the best ever? You don?t and neither do I, because we?ve not seen it! It could be the best we?ve seen, it could be the worst we?ve seen? but we?ll never know until it?s made will we? Yeah, people can’t judge any more telly Dwarf unless they’ve seen it. Anyone who says that it’s automatically rubbish (or, to be fair, automatically great) is a bloody idiot. BUT – you could say that about anything. You could argue that I should be commissioned to do a sketch show, because hey – it could be great, it could be crap. The thing is, the only way you CAN judge whether a show should be commissioned, or recomissioned, apart from viewing figures (see below), is on past work. And from MY personal perspective – I don’t think VII/VIII earnt itself a recomission from a quality perspective. Even though I really want to see more Dwarf! I hate to say all this really, because I’m a huge supporter of the franchise. I really want to see the Movie, because it’s a step into a new medium for the franchise, and the chance to do something different. I think the DVDs are some of the best telly DVDs ever produced. I think reddwarf.co.uk is one of the best official sites out there. I really, really respect GNP for what they do for the fans. And it’s stupid. From the perspective of a fan, I want more – because I want to see whether Doug can fix the problems with VII/VIII. I want the chance for the show to end on a high. And from the perspective of a wider license fee payer, I want more – because the viewing figures of VIII clearly indicate that a lot of people loved the show. But I still can’t answer the nagging point at the back of my head about it.
I think it’s fair enough that a lot of the hardcore are anti VII & VIII to varying degrees and maybe have no desire to see more of the same, it’s clearly an issue and people are being honest. Personally, I dont see this as the point though in this instance. We dont know many facts behind this BBC decision, nor do we know who arrived at it. Frankly, we dont even know if this were just part of a huge BBC explanation or merely an off the cuff remark. What we do know is that someone within the BBC is of the mindset that Red Dwarf has been and gone and that someone is no longer interested in Dwarf’s audience, be it the type of audience or numbers involved! As a public service provider paid for by the public I want to know how they can justify this kind of a statemant with all the implications involved. To me, this goes beyond being a Dwarf fan. I dont expect the BBC to change their minds on the grounds of 20-30 people writing in but I would expect some kind of explanation as to the exact meaning.
> You mean that we?re no longer interested in the kind of company that Red Dwarf used to be produced by? Were the BBC ever technically Dwarf’s producers? I’m thinking of Noel Gay, Paul Jackson, GNP. The BBC being funders, distributers and broadcasters.
I’ve emailed too, finally. Probably a little late but I did get ‘Dear Auntie’ and ‘please, please, please’ into my comment. I struggled a bit to find the right words. I realised I’m more seeking clarification of the remark than anything else. Perhaps if we aren’t acknowledged on PoV we should re-forward our complaints directly to the BBC complaints department.
I do think it’s important to reiterate that, despite my posts, above, I do really, REALLY want to see more telly Red Dwarf. Specials would probably be my preferred route to go down, though.
No matter how many times I read it I still remain livid at the sheer dismissive attitude of them! Arnold J Rimmer: BASTARDS!
I would prefer a 6 episode series over a special. Or perhaps a special to mark 20 years of Dwarf followed by a series later. Two series’ would be the best bet, that’s what I’ve always thought – IX and X, as one series just isn’t enough to do a Dwarf wrap-up justice. Ideally IX would be a straightforward proper series of Dwarf akin to III, IV and V where overall plot doesn’t feature (apart from episode 6 which could have a cliffhanger going into X, which could be something like…Rimmer’s son appearing). Simply 6 episodes of being on the Dwarf, swirly things in space, abandoned vessels, psycho simulants and whatnot. Plenty of humour. All good stuff. Then X would be about Dwarf’s story coming to an end, with them finally reaching Earth and maybe a pared-down version of the Movie’s events could be played out. I think we need closure, and for me that would be two series’ worth of it!
I like Monkeys idea. I have respect for Doug because with VII and VIII in some ways he kept trying to keep Dwarf moving forward and trying out new things, which is how I feel it should be. Unfortunately other stuff for me counter-acted the positives. Story arcs and lots of references to the shows earlier episodes whilst in some way a nod to fans also limit the appeal to the casual viewer. Whilst one or two more series of ‘generic’ dwarf (Series VI Dwarf?) might seem a bit of a backwards step, It might not be a bad thing. It’s almost like Red Dwarf cabaret, the older, fatter cast members returning for a final run through the greatest hits. John’s idea of a series of specials would work quite well I feel.
If I could have my ideal situation come true, it’d be two more series of Dwarf, followed by a one-off hour-long special that either gets them back to Earth or concludes the show in some satisfactory manner. But I’d be perfectly happy with any return to television. One special, a series of specials, one more series… I know VII/VIII get slagged off a lot. And I know they go wrong in all sorts of ways. But I never did feel like either series was a waste. There were always enough positives to keep me happy enough. And with all the “looking backward” Doug’s been doing on the DVDs, I’m positive he can give us some truly great television.
Blindingly? … not really. Everyone in my department seems to put their name to their decisions and the BBC has been pretty damn big on the whole “responsiblity for actions” thing since the furore over the Queen’s alleged walkout and the competitions and cat vote stuff this year. Unless, that is, it’s an entirely unofficial comment stated off the record in which case it’s an opinion of an individual and a) not a decision the BBC has actually made and b) off the record and not intended to be spread around a bunch of fans who might start a letter writing campaign over it.
Pete Martin / Sun, 2007-10-14 17:24 / # >I?m sorry if the viewer who made the video is reading this, but that appeal was awful. Thank you…hey, I have I idea! Why don’t you try doing one with a crappy editing programme that crashes every five minutes, can only just record sound in, takes forever to do cuts in the place you want them and has a huge problem with making in to a video file at the end and totally hates every thing you try to do. Also, point of view give you only 30 secs for these vids …But no I’m not angry at all by your comment *lights a cig* and am content and happy to received such comments. :D
> b) off the record and not intended to be spread around a bunch of fans who might start a letter writing campaign over it. If it was off the record it’s still apparently sincere. It’s still allegedly the attitude and feelings of a BBC employee. It’s not that Red Dwarf’s being denied a future series that’s solely the point here. It’s that the comment in question seems to apply a lazy stereotype of Dwarfs audience, could be implying that the show HAD an audience, but now doesn’t (Dvd sales and viewing figures disagree) and also that people who liked Red Dwarf are now less important to the BBC than others, which is pure discrimination.
> I?m sorry if the viewer who made the video is reading this, but that appeal was awful. At least she did something. Her appeal kick started this and brought the situation to light with the BBC. Also we now know a bit more about the situation, like the fact that it was 5 years since the BBC was approached with plans for new Dwarf and more importantly that they are willing to talk to GNP about a revival.
In all honesty – I hate the video. I don’t think it makes us look good as a fanbase, and I don’t think it gets the points across properly. On the other hand, it’s difficult to deny that the video *did* start this whole thing off again, and this statement from the BBC has given us as a fanbase something to work with. So for that, Penny has to be commended.
> Unless, that is, it?s an entirely unofficial comment stated off the record in which case it?s an opinion of an individual and a) not a decision the BBC has actually made and b) off the record and not intended to be spread around a bunch of fans who might start a letter writing campaign over it. The problem with this argument is that it calls the professionalism of everyone at GNP into question, and that’s not something I deem terribly likely. If it wasn’t intended to get out, then it should never have been made, because GNP wouldn’t have put it out in the way they did if they didn’t have the impression it was a pretty official refusal.
There does seem to be a lot of assumption on our part which makes it difficult to argue the case… I hardly think Andrew (via Doug) is going to urge us fans to write/complain to the BBC about something that hasn’t happened and therefore assume they’re sure of their facts… I also think that the ‘5’ years quoted by POV doesn’t fit in at all with the ‘movie’ not being taken on despite them liking the script. I feel it’s safe to assume that GNP were, 5 years ago, seeking backing/funding elsewhere but again this is assumption… The head of comedy would have to be completely stupid to make a false statement on air (through Wogan)if there were any possibility of proof coming to light to say otherwise… With this in mind, I believe (assume) everything points to the head of comedy not being aware of contact with GNP, this being the case, Her door being open is a huge step forward… If contact was 5 years ago which I doubt, there doesn’t seem a lot of point in GNP lighting the fuse now… I would like to hear GNP’s stance on this now, for all we know they may have given up on the BBC themselves thus making any ‘campaign’ pointless. It’s hard to fight a battle with no ammo especially when the other side is saying they’re willing to talk.
Maybe the reason GNP has only just released this information is because there is currently a lot of talk along the lines of “The BBC would definatly take back Red Dwarf” from us fans. But judging from the comment from the Head of Comedy there is hope if Doug or somebody from GNP were to talk with her, and it would no longer be dismissed as “we are no longer interested in the audience”. I would like to hear what GNP has to say about the POV statement.
Yes but it appears that it must have been an unofficial commment from someone since the BBC has stated publicly on TV that the person who could actually make a decision about the show being revived on the BBC hasn’t been asked. As such, there’s not much weight to the statement. Sure, it’s someone’s honest belief, but I see lots of people getting all het up about how Points of View “dismissed” the statement as internet rumours, but it’s really not much more than that. If the person saying it isn’t willing to have their name attached then I suspect they’re not speaking in an official capacity and they’ve possibly got little more insight than the BBC cleaners. Okay, I exaggerate… but you’re being told that the person who could make the decision doesn’t know anything about this comment so whether it’s sincerely meant or not, it’s not all that meaningful.
Given that Grant Naylor have had involvment in the media for so many years through Dwarf and other companies it would seem a tad odd if they took the word of someone who was acting in an unofficial capacity. Whilst I can believe maybe that the head of comedy wasn’t involved there would be no point in making a public issue of a mere minor executives’ comment. This was not a knee jerk reaction to an ‘internet’ rumour, this was a reaction to an official statement from the head of GNP via Andrew and encouragment to voice our opinions to the Beeb…. Until such time that I (we) know otherwise, I’m going to continue my support for GNP and more Dwarf… Time will tell (hopefully)…
Given that Grant Naylor have been in the media for so long you’d have thought that they’d have the cast rehearsing for a movie *after* the funding was secured as well, yet the website had photos of them together for a rehearsal years ago. They don’t play by the normal rules. People who make statements for the BBC in an official capacity put their name, or at least their job title, to them. It’s all about accountability. The decision to lean on the BBC wasn’t a direct part of the official statement, was it? I wasn’t there but from the reports that’s not the impression I got. It seems to me that the letter writing campaign was born here, not at the convention. And when writing most people have said something like “I heard that…” such that investigation leads back to here – people on a website discussing what somebody else heard somewhere. That, I’m afraid, is an internet rumour and not much more.
As you probably now, I can’t reply to the BBC stuff. But this bit I can talk about: > Given that Grant Naylor have been in the media for so long you?d have thought that they?d have the cast rehearsing for a movie *after* the funding was secured as well, yet the website had photos of them together for a rehearsal years ago. They don?t play by the normal rules. I think you’ll find those ARE the normal rules…! You’d be hard-pressed to find a film that waited until all the financing was in place before beginning development. The major studios finance all the way through pre-production before fully committing to a greenlight. (We’ve all got near-miss projects that we’d like to see – Burton’s Superman, or Ridley Scott’s I Am Legend, or whatever. Same thing. Or how about Gilliam’s Don Quixote? That example just shows how quickly investment that was expected can just disappear…it’s never just deposited into an account somewhere.) Hell, most non-studio films aren’t fully financed even when they’re shooting – momentum is a big part of the process. You start with development money. That’s normal. It’s how the designs and boards are paid for. It’s how you continue to build a movie financially – footage of cast performances incorporated into animatics can make things a lot clearer to investors, and to production HoDs. Sure, a week of pre-prod rehearsals won’t happen on everything – it’s not something big names will generally go for – but you see it happen on a fair few indies, and we have a very supportive cast. Red Dwarf has always been developed with the guys in the mix. They have a big effect on the rewriting. To play to their strengths, to incorporate new ideas, just to test stuff out. Which is all script development, which gives you a better screenplay…which, again, helps the financing. You don’t have to agree, but whether it worked or not it’s seems bizarre to suggest that a not untypical development scenario is us ‘not playing by the normal rules’.
