No-rman Lovett News Posted by Ian Symes on 12th January 2009, 20:34 Norman Lovett will not be appearing in the new Dwarf specials. At the delightful time of 6:06pm, he posted the following bulletin on to his MySpace page: I will not be involved in the new Red Dwarf programmes on the Dave channel. A pathetic little email arrived today to let me know that due to budget I would not be appearing. I dread to think about the size of the budget because I’ve never been paid much to appear in Red Dwarf anyway. I am a little sad because I’ve been saying over the last couple of years that I am the perfect age to play Holly now. (I was 41 when I first played him). I am more angry really because I was given dates to put in my diary before Christmas but what’s new with GrantNaylor in charge. If you want to make me very happy please go to my website and buy a copy of my new stand-up comedy DVD ‘Bags & Biscuits” Happy New Year and Best Wishes, Norman Ooh, get her. Norman has often been critical of GNP, especially over the movie saga. It does seem quite odd, though – surely the budget can’t be that low that cast members are having to be shed. It seems a shame that the production is so tight – it makes it much more difficult to do the programme justice. But, as I’ve been saying so often recently, we shall see. By the way, can we has Hattie Hayridge instead pls?
Fucking hell. Firstly, kudos to Norman for displaying his usual levels of dignity and professionalism. I can imagine the fees of the bigger stars putting a bit of a strain on the budget and I guess if you wanted to shed a character to save some coin, the Holly will be top of the list. Still a big shame, though, both for the fact that we’re losing Holly and that Norman has aquitted himself so poorly, yet again.
Giving it further thought, I hopeful that this decision was taken to make certain that enough money is in place to do the main episodes proper justice, rather than it being a sign that every element is woefully underfunded.
I am hopeful that told him they don’t have the ‘budget’ to use him when they really meant ‘patience’.
Outside of Norm/Hattie’s appearance fee, it’s really just filming someone in front of black cloth, right? Doesn’t sound terribly expensive for even a low budget television production. Unless the budget has been recently cut, I wonder why Norman was asked to set some time aside for filming.
Perhaps it’s just a case of there not really being a part for Holly anymore*, we can have Blue Midgets dancing or Norman – let’s drop Norman. *As IV, V and VIII proved.
>I am hopeful that told him they don?t have the ?budget? to use him when they really meant ?patience?. I love you. Anyway: the headline for this article is brilliant. The news within…not so much. I know he’s been whining for some time, but I like him and thought his Holly brought a GREAT deal to the show. I’m sad to hear that he won’t be around for the new episodes. >By the way, can we has Hattie Hayridge instead pls? Now that would really be a kick in the old man’s teeth.
> rather than it being a sign that every element is woefully underfunded I didn’t read that. *hides head in sand* >But, my God, Norm?s a miserable sod isn?t he? Much as I love him as Holly, he does get on my tits the rest of the time.
This is sad, considering that both Holly’shave only recently appeared in Beat the Geek. then again how many key scenes did Holly have in VIII, we know that alot of his lines from Nanarchy were left on the floor for time, so may be it was a pacing issue. If after the specials Dave decides it wants to do more (specials or a series) then i’m sure there would be more time available for Holly.
>If after the specials Dave decides it wants to do more (specials or a series) then i?m sure there would be more time available for Holly. I agree. They should ask him to block off several more weeks for shooting, just in case.
>Unless the budget has been recently cut, I wonder why Norman was asked to set some time aside for filming. Maybe someone at Dave met him.
I’m disappointed. Still, maybe the story doesn’t call for Holly. We don’t know where they’re going with it, it might not even be set aboard Red Dwarf, things could have changed dramatically in the decade or so since we last visited with the characters. I’m sure they will have to write a long passage of time into the scripts to account for the older cast. Maybe Holly… crashed? Maybe they’re on Earth already?
Is this sad? No. Is it a shock? No, especially after he slagged off Grant Naylor over the movie. Should we give a fuck (or even two)? No. If Hattie is cast I would be happy, however it’s looking increasingly like we’re just getting the four core cast members. How likely, exactly, is it that this would be, at least partly, down to reasons of budget? That sounds to me like a ‘polite’ reason GNP gave Norman rather than the reality of the situation, but what the fuck do I know? Anyone with more (or actual) insight?
i thought that he probably wouldent be involved because i think for a 1 hour special ( 2 half hour epis ) that havin holly there would slow things down ..which is the reason holly was dropped in 1st place .. and no sign of kochanski .. i hope they give us some sort of explanation for wat happend after series 8
Chris Barrie just needs to borrow William Shatner’s wig. I’m slightly baffled by Twitter, but it seems that Robert just described the budget as “teeny weeny”.
> Red Dwarf VI : The Lost Episodes I was wondering this. A couple of starbug sets, re-use a few old model shots and off they go? Infact do we know any details about FX involvement? Is Chris Veale involved or are we likely to get proper model shots?
> Should we give a fuck (or even two)? No. Of course people should give a fuck because it`s pretty significant news for the specials. Personally I hope that Hattie won`t be involved because I don`t think that she`s as funny as Norman and I certainly hope that Kochanski won`t appear.
To me this isn’t really good or bad news, I think Holly is a fantastic character but Series VI was my favourite and that didn’t have Holly in so it won’t really effect these new specials. I think it is likely it will be set entirely on Blue Midget or Star Bug.
It’s always whine isn’t it? Hasn’t Norman guessed? Craig playing multiple roles? Come to think of it, it’s just Craig isn’t it? Craig with a bald cap, Craig with a H, Craig under the rubber and Lenny Henry playing Lister.
>Red Dwarf VI : The Lost Episodes >That?s got my vote. Me too. >A couple of starbug sets, re-use a few old model shots and off they go? Do the Starbug sets even exist anymore?
They can’t pretend it’s the VI era. They look older than their future selves from OoT FFS!! I do wish it was set on the Dwarf but I’m guessing it would be much easier to use Starbug. It should be set 10 years after VIII with the Dwarfers on a sort of hunt for Kochanski who was lost a few years ago for whatever reason. Say Ace Rimmer’s return resulted in her shifting dimensions.
yep the teeny weeny budget line ( for which he said to me in twitter :) ) dosent sound to promising .. as long as its got a starbug set and soem good gags shud be all good and a good explanation for wat happend after series 8 .. is anyone here a little peed of with the lack of news via the official rd website ??
is anyone here a little peed of with the lack of news via the official rd website ?? Production hasn’t started yet. How many other programmes do you know that release information while they’re still in the planning stage, before a single shot is taped?
>They can?t pretend it?s the VI era. They look older than their future selves from OoT FFS!! And you think that rather significant continuity detail would stop them?
Audience ticket info often only goes out a week or two ahead of recording these days – it prevents against too few turning up. (Not that that’s a concern for Dwarf!)
I don’t know, when ever Norman comes out with this sort of statement I always get the feeling there’s more to it and I’d love to hear the ‘other sides’ story. Having said that, I can see why he’s bitter but surely this happens all the time in show business and is it a good idea to slag off a production company in public? (possible future ventures and all that). Seemingly it was intended at some point to have him on board and therefore he must have had lines in some kind of script (assuming ‘final’ scripts must be getting close given the projected time scales). It will be interesting when solid news starts to appear as it is starting to sound like a four man show now, but who knows! I’m a little sad that he wont be included but it’s not the end of the world.
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Q56Nvo7i4 Okay how did you do that. I want names, I want places and I want dates.
Give me the long version. You’re finished. What’s the short version? Bye. I was all upset that there wasn’t going to be a Holly but then, you’re right, he was completely missing from series 6. I reserve the right to be bummed, however that we’re not going to actually see what became of everybody.
> Audience ticket info often only goes out a week or two ahead of recording these > days – it prevents against too few turning up. (Not that that?s a concern for > Dwarf!) Sadly, that does complicate things for us foreigners…
People not in the UK won’t be able to take advantage of the ‘live’ format! Dammit, GNP shouldn’t have the show in formats everyone cannot have access to!!
performingmonkey / Tue, 2009-01-13 19:32 / new / # They can?t pretend it?s the VI era. They look older than their future selves from OoT FFS!! I beg to differ! (this pic stolen from BTLi – Thanks Marleen :o) )
A shame he’s not in it, but maybe Hattie will be. Although it wouldn’t be the end of the world if there’s no Holly at all, as as everyone has been saying VI wasn’t hindered at all by the lack of Holly.
I don’t understand why some people have such a big problem with them being older. Contrary to popular media opinion, the world doesn’t begin and end with the fucking 18-25 demographic. People get older. Get over it. Personally, I’m far too happy that they managed to get all four of them together, in the same place at the same time, to do this thing than to let it concern me.
> People get older. Get over it. Well for Lister and Rimmer it isn’t so important, especially as those characters were originally developed as older than we first saw them. It’s a bit different for Danny since The Cat’s character is fairly one-dimensional with a big emphasis on personal vanity. So the older Danny gets the less convicing he obviously becomes in the role of an agile, preening young cat. Arguably of course to some perhaps that makes this particularly joke funnier.
Cat would gt older. Cat would have to find ways to get over it. There would be a lot of room to develop whole new running gags. It’d be fun. Hollyhillyholly could choose to age. (For whatever reason.) Kryten’s the problem.
>Kryten?s the problem. If you were joking, never mind the next paragraph. The character whose face is a mask? Sure Robert Llewellyn’s body shape would have changed over time, putting on weight etc (although he was never really fat) but it’s done that over the course of the other series anyway. The continuity there never really bothered me. I think Chris Barrie’s face has changed the most of them all (and he’s a Hologram who isn’t supposed to age. Then again OoT made allowance for that.) It doesn’t bother me though, I’m happy to suspend belief. Even if they decided to follow the series directly after the other left off, or even during the past (like the series 6 time period people mentioned) it wouldn’t really bother me.
> Cat would get older. Cat would have to find ways to get over it. There would be a lot of room to develop whole new running gags. It?d be fun. Maybe so but he’d become a different character. Obviously all characters develop, but even to a new audience Lister, Rimmer and Kryten’s roles are relatively immediate. The optimistic slobby one, the self-obsessed one, the robot and science spouting-one. Cat’s is ? That said he never really had one anyway other than to dip in with a few excellent one-liners. Age is a factor or at least it is depending on how you intend to market the show. Growing up Lister has a ‘cool older brother’ appeal, from series III onwards the show had a very action-orientated, colourful presentation. It might not have been specifically aimed at a young demographic, but it fitted perfectly into one and it’s at a young age that the great majority of us here discovered the show. It seems foolish to try and be the same show it was. That was then, this is now. If Dwarf can come back, re-invent itself and find a new niche that would be great for a time. If it doesn’t then perhaps it’s time has passed and we should just be thankful for what we have, or it becomes Last of the Summer Wine… in space (on acid)*. Is Dwarf the UK’s Star Trek? Obviously it’s a sci-fi comedy rather than sci-fi drama, but we care about the characters rather than just laugh at/with them don’t we? We cared in Out of Time when it looked like it had all come to an end. Obviously we all want new quality Dwarf in our lives who wouldn’t, but nothing lasts forever* * – Worryingly I’m actually rather engaged by that idea. ** – No Ian, not even that.
Good points, but I think Red Dwarf has always reinvented to a certain extent. Or rather ‘tweaked itself’ might be more accurate as it brings along certain threads as it adapts. As for caring for the characters and laughing at them, I don’t really see that as mutually exclusive. And whilst the Cat (and other crewmenbers) wouldn’t be exactly the same, I still see them as the same characters. It just means they have something else to adapt to, as they’ve always done series to series. That’s if they take their ages into account of course.
Danny doesn’t look too much older than in Series VIII, he has aged well though I think the beard makes him look older but I assume he won’t have that, I can’t imagine Cat with a beard. Ahh, everytime I see the title it annoys me more and more, so bad its good certainly does not apply.
> I don?t understand why some people have such a big problem with them being older. No-one does afaik. The only thing is if the special was set pre-VII or something, it just wouldn’t be believable. Personally I WANT to see the characters older and what situation they’re in ten years down the line. They could all be over 60 and it would still work. The fans would still want to see it.
I’m not really finding the right words to express my angle on this. The fans would still want to see it, you’re right, but isn’t because we’ve made an investment in those characters? *deletes big rant about television and it’s obsession with sex* I’m not saying a whole new series of Dwarf wouldn’t find an audience either. It’s such a huge draw, with a global following. Think how big the viewing figures were for BITR. Dave could potentially pull a massive rating for a non-terrestrial channel on these shows.
All that needs to happen is the suggestion that much time has passed since only the Good and then get on with the rest of the episodes writing the character in exactly the same way as before. It caters for everyone, that way. I predict this wont stop lazy journos bringing up ages in every last review, though.
Ahh, everytime I see the title it annoys me more and more, so bad its good certainly does not apply “I, Hatett”?
> All that needs to happen is the suggestion that much time has passed since only the Good and then get on with the rest of the episodes writing the character in exactly the same way as before. Exactly the same as it was before? I`m not sure about that. I think that even in Series VII and VIII having Lister and Rimmer behaving like students seemed wrong considering their characters` ages. If that was attempted again with them being 45-50 it could be quite sad. Personally I hope that references are made as to how the passing of time has affected the characters.
>I think that even in Series VII and VIII having Lister and Rimmer behaving like students seemed wrong considering their characters` ages. The fact that this didn’t work had nothing to with the characters’ ages and everything to do with it being a complete departure from the previous episodes. If Red Dwarf must come back, can we have some stories of the calibre of Thanks for the Memory, Back to Reality and Timeslifes, rather than Rimmer and Lister getting into various scrapes and japes.
Lister is still going to be a bum, but a bum in his 40s, as the role was sort of originally envisaged by Rob and Doug. His optimism is probably going to be pretty low at this stage, especially if they’ve lost Kochanski. Seriously, how much more of living the same life with the same crew can one man take?? Kryten will no doubt be just the same, as will the Cat. It’s kind of their sitcom job to remain the way they are. Though after all this time confined together, it’s a wonder Rimmer and Lister haven’t killed each other.
I’m interested as to how Doug will write out Holly, but the prospect of writing out Kochanski is arguably trickier. >it?s a wonder Rimmer and Lister haven?t killed each other. They seemed to be mates in VIII.
>>it?s a wonder Rimmer and Lister haven?t killed each other. >They seemed to be mates in VIII. Wasn’t it established in ‘Cassandra’ or ‘Pete’ that they had been in prison for a year? >I?m interested as to how Doug will write out Holly, but the prospect of writing out Kochanski is arguably trickier. Through the use of mime I assume.
>Timeslifes I appreciate that this just a typo, but a typo that quite nicely reflects the content of the episode.
> I?m interested as to how Doug will write out Holly, but the prospect of writing out Kochanski is arguably trickier. If it’s a reboot: easy, just ignore the character. If it’s a continuation from series VIII, then it would be equally easy to write something about the virus destroying him before Rimmer could get round to stopping the decay.
I don’t think there’s a truly *easy* way to lose Holly at this point. Not when it’s based almost entirely on nostalgia. Personally, by the end of VIII I was starting to like the idea of the whole crew going into a series IX, so I’m slightly disappointed to begin with.
i think these specials can live without holly in my mind when i think of ” the main cast ” i think of chris craig robert and danny even tho norman was there before robert .. he was missing from the series for soo many years then came back towards the end .. so him not being in the specials isnt the end of the world as far as im concernd because i think if he was .. he may have had 3 or 4 lines tops
They shouldn’t have brought Norman back at all IMO. I reckon they only did because Doug needed to use him for the film. Just my opinion…but it’s the truth!
Maybe they’ll explain Kochanski’s absence from returning to her Lister. Traipsing through the parallel universes etc, etc.
In case you missed it on the forum (thanks Phil): I?ve had loads of nice messages from myspace friends since I posted a bulletin about not being involved in the new Red Dwarf stuff for the Dave channel. I want to say thanks for your support and thanks to those who bought a copy of my DVD. I also had around 80 people who decided not to be a myspace friend anymore and I found that rather sad really. Here?s something else that will probably make a few more of you depart. I will not be involved in any more RD and have decided to write a book on my experiences with Red Dwarf. It will be truthful, entertaining and give you an insight into my life which has not been very ordinary. I have been asked to write an autobiography on many occasions and I now feel the time is right. Thanks again. Norman
i wonder if officiall dwarf site will say anything about this on there news today .. would be nice if they mention the specials in some way shape or form ..or maybe details on how to get into audience .. filmings only like a week away isnt it ?
It could be an interesting read. I would take a lot of what Norman says with a pinch of salt but it will still be different to get an alternate view of the show`s history.
filmings only like a week away isnt it ? From what we’ve heard, *some* filming will take place on the 20th January. That’s not necessarily in the studio, and I’d very much doubt that any of the first few days of shooting would take place with an audience.
>owell this weeks news is up and itss ???????..not about the specials ohwell Liar: “playing a mechanoid for 40 episodes of Red Dwarf (soon to be 42, as our recent body-casting report showed)”
well yeah just a link to a previos article so technically nothing NEW .. but yes i am wrong in the sense it was more than nowt …. very slightly
Maybe he will talk about that spot in the middle of his forehead in his autobiography. Or when he broke his nose and had it reset straight.
>They shouldn?t have brought Norman back at all IMO. I reckon they only did because >Doug needed to use him for the film. Just my opinion?but it?s the truth! I agree. By the time he came back, any charisma or spark he’d ever brought to the character was long gone. It seemed very forced. So it seems no Holly (if we could have one, I’d pick Hattie over Norm any day) and no Kochanski. I wonder if their absence will be explained, though I’m starting to think that with only 2 half-hours to go at, wrapping up series 8’s turd-stew of a cliffhanger, explaining why everyone’s aged 10 years and explaining away the absentees would be a pretty tall order. My guess is they’ll probably just leap straight in, and like many have said, do a series 6 style episode. Norm really is a bitter old fart. You’d think he could at least wish his castmates well.
It couls always start like ‘Psirens’, instead of “So as you know we have lost Red Dwarf” it has “So as you know we have lost Red Dwarf and Kochanski and have been tracking them for ten years but now we have the chance to hit them off at the pass and recover Holly” then a space core directive joke.
as long as they haven’t lost Bob and Madge again then that’s okay! who owns the Skutters, are they GNP items or BBC props?
The VIII ones weren’t BBC – see the documentary where it is explained they couldn’t even get the designs because they were BBC designs…
>owell this weeks news is up and itss ???????..not about the specials ohwell What kind of news are you expecting when they haven’t even started filming yet? Also just because they are doing some filming (starting the 30th we now know) it’s highly unlikely that they will start the filming schedule with the audience. They’re more likely to do the location stuff first, we haven’t heard much about any read-throughs going on and that’s something that’ll happen, plus rehearsals recorded and otherwise… What makes you assume that we’ll get to hear about every single detail of production anyway? Most of what we know has come from Bobby’s Twitter feed and Norman’s ranting. There hasn’t been an awful lot of official news, so I’m afraid you’ll just have to wait patiently… like the rest of us. When the tickets are available we’ll be made aware, do you honestly think that GNP won’t let the fans know?
craigs interview >Have there been any read-throughs or rehearsals yet? When do you begin filming? “Yeah ? it starts filming in January and the rest of them all look ancient! I’m the only one that doesn’t look like they’ve aged. I’m actually playing their child now!” whats he saying yeah to .. u cant answer When do you begin filming? with yeah .. so he must be answering to the read-throughs or rehersals..thought we might have heard a tiny bit about that …..even though roberts says hes not seen a script …we shall just have to wait and see and as for >>owell this weeks news is up and itss ???????..not about the specials ohwell thats just me being impatient haha
Oh Norman. Whilst i’m not gonna take his word as gospel, if Norman really only did recieve just an email saying he wasn’t in it because of ‘budget’, especially after he was told to clear some days for filming, you can kind of understand why he would be peeved. Moany git or not. Though the public outburst was probably a bit much. How has Norman criticised GNP before? I’m not really au fait with all the details. I know he’s especially moany on the DVD commentaries, and the others occasionally talk over him deliberately to shut him up.
Feel free to call me on this, but I remember Norman going on a bit of an odd rant regarding GNP treating fans badly, or something.
>Why exactly does he think GNP are treating fans badly? I seem to remember him saying something about GNP leading us up the garden path with regards to the movie?
The more I think about this ‘Norman’ business, the more I think he’s lost it. He’s had a pop at GNP as mentioned, He’s also said he has trouble ‘shaking off’ his Dwarf image despite doing lots of ‘other’ stuff.. I’ve harped on before about selling ‘Holly’ photos at Memorabilia, ‘Beat The Geek’ etc etc. The fact is, He’s always been happy to use the ‘Dwarf’ name to sell himself, even last years ‘Double Header’ tour was Dwarf promoted and the Q&A invited Dwarf questions. Not bad for a man trying to shake Dwarf off. At this very moment, his latest venture on the front page of his web site news mentions reddwarf.co.uk. We all have knocks in life, we dont always get the job we want or the promotion we yearn for, that’s life! Norman is in the position of being able to write about it and he’s only in a position of fame to be able to write a Biography thanks in no small part to Red Dwarf. Paint your own picture of the man, but I know what I think…
I think GNP should contact G&T first with ticket news, and let Ian and co tell them who they think is more likely to want them… (Me! Me! Me!)
>The next person to mention tickets gets a punch in the face. Sorry. We all just want to be there. I don’t think there’s any need for that. :-(
kakchriskak / Sun, 2009-01-18 22:51 / # has anyone heard anything about tickets ?? WIN!!! *sends kakchriskak flying across the room* Ah! That’s better :oP Sorry. We all just want to be there. I don?t think there?s any need for that. :-( Well exactly and I’m sure when they’re available we’ll all know about it. CALM DOWN!
