DwarfCast 20 – Back to Earth Part 2 Instant Reaction DwarfCasts Posted by Jonathan Capps on 12th April 2009, 01:40 Subscribe to DwarfCasts: RSS • iTunes Hello, and welcome to another edition of TyrellCast Back To Earth rolls on and the second episode *really* kicked off the headfuckery. Opinions have been changed, people have been confused and John is off in the other room watching the golf. DwarfCast 20 – Back to Earth Part 2 Instant Reaction (62.5MB) Once again the cast includes all the attendees of the Great G&T Party, including all six of us cunts, Jo Sharples (Fan Club supremo), Karl Eisenhauer (idiot) and Mark Day (brother of mine and the next Charles Manson.) At this point I should apologise for the lateness of the ‘Cast… well, we should but I really don’t want to. Get yourselves fucked you impatient gaggle of ingrates. Danny has been working his face off to edit this into shape, so piss off. See you tomorrow!
Instant my arse! ;-) I’m guessing there was there a lot of editing needed doing? Anyway, will start listening right now.
I’m really worried now. I haven’t seen Blade Runner and never realized how many references to it there was in the episodes. I’m now praying the point of back to earth doesn’t go over my head because i haven’t seen a 1980’s sci-fi movie. I already feel like i’ve missed out since i wasn’t sat watching it and understanding the references. Having to be told about them is really shit.
Doug is right. We’re all a bit frustrated with him right now because we have no idea whats going on. I’m pretty sure tomorrow night we’ll all be loving him like he said because everything will fall into place. Judging this episode on its own is unfair because we have no idea where its going. Although i’m still annoyed with the Blade Runner stuff.
Bit sad after hearing the podcast. I thought the ep was really funny tonight and even though you guys said there were laugh out load moments and were looking forward to tomorrow heard very little positive comments. Also what was with the I’d rather be watching golf on bbc 2 comment? Even though you didn’t know what was on bbc 2!? You serious!? Golf over new Red Dwarf..!! Very strange ;)
Woo i got a mention lol. I believe Katerina is helping them because she opened the portal up and led them to this point. From my understanding, if she hadn’t then the characters would of died anyway since the fate of the show in this dimension seems linked to weather the characters live or die in their own. It seems like she’s giving them a chance to save themselves.
Talking about the re-watchability factor, while I have watched both episodes 3 times, John’s perhaps right in that, once we know the ending, what is there to bring us back to BtE time and time again like past Dwarf? Even after seeing them countless times I still find myself wanting to carry on watching the repeats of Quarantine, Gunmen etc. (even though I dislike Emohawk, the Starbug stuff at the beginning remains brilliant) I whole-heartedly agree that comedy is great for re-watching. I find shows actually get funnier the more you watch them (if they’re good to begin with). I remember not liking Alan Partridge series 2 that much on broadcast. I thought they’d totally blown it after the brilliance of series 1, but on repeat viewing I was pissing myself. Whether that just makes me a bit slow, i.e. it takes repeat viewings to get something into my head, I don’t know. I only properly laugh at stuff that I’ve really got into. I never used to like Blackadder. I didn’t know wtf my older brother was on when he used to rave about it like it was the first, second and third (and Forth…) coming, it just seemed boring to me. Then I got sucked in and I could watch them all over and over again. Same with Father Ted.
I agree concerning the Bladerunner stuff. Part of me still likes the homage as scenes, but as part of Red Dwarf, it was way too much. The odd little thing like the Cat’s origami (which I think is a clue to what’s happening, as I mentioned elsewhere.) is fair enough. As is the upcoming scene crashing through the window but the rest, particularly the scene with the Chinese man, is way too heavy handed. It WAS amusing but it wasn’t really Red Dwarf. I’ll go with it for now though. I think I’ll find it rewatchable though, but perhaps not regularly. That’s the same for most DVDs though.
I loved the first half, but the second half seemed too unbelievable. From They Walk Among Us onwards, it kinda went bollocks. The way he just went “Oh yeah, dimension skid” with a shrug. There were some good bits, but I got really bored, despite the speed of the thing. Also, there was a strange bit just before the ad break, where Rimmer’s cut off mid-sentence. I didn’t get the joke. They all pulled a face and then the ads appeared. Maybe a second viewing would improve the experience.
A lot of mixed reactions there. Yes, it’s very different from the RD we know and love, but I feel as if BtE is a stand-alone thing. If they were given a new series I think it would go back to being different again. That’s why I have no problem with the format – I wouldn’t expect this to be an ongoing thing, in fact I wouldn’t like it if it was, but for a special, for a one-off, yes. I loved the Bladerunner stuff. Yes, there was a lot of it, but too much? Maybe it was a little heavy-handed, but I enjoyed it immensely so I don’t care. :P
Also, there was a strange bit just before the ad break, where Rimmer?s cut off mid-sentence. I didn?t get the joke. They all pulled a face and then the ads appeared. Maybe a second viewing would improve the experience. It did for us – we were all a bit puzzled first time out, but watching it a second time, you realise they’re actually doing a “pretend” freeze-frame (a la Police Squad), and the gag is that Rimmer’s moaning about TV scheduling before then being cut off mid-sentence by an ad-break. Be interesting to see how that one works on the DVD… (still think there should have been bumpers for the ad breaks, mind)
It did for us – we were all a bit puzzled first time out, but watching it a second time, you realise they?re actually doing a ?pretend? freeze-frame (a la Police Squad), and the gag is that Rimmer?s moaning about TV scheduling before then being cut off mid-sentence by an ad-break. Be interesting to see how that one works on the DVD? I was surprised you didn’t mention that during the DwarfCast. I interpreted it as being a joke about things failing to record properly, put there to give people who were watching it back on DVDR/PVR a momentary shock. I wonder how it will work on DVD, too.
> It did for us – we were all a bit puzzled first time out, but watching it a second time, you realise they?re actually doing a ?pretend? freeze-frame (a la Police Squad), and the gag is that Rimmer?s moaning about TV scheduling before then being cut off mid-sentence by an ad-break. Be interesting to see how that one works on the DVD? Still amazed by the confusion surounding this.
I have to say, I wasn’t suggesting that Dwarf had ripped off the League or that metafiction was a new idea, I was just saying that if hadn’t been done by another comedy show that I loved in the past few years the *wow* factor would be a bit bigger.
I actually thought the “End of Part 1” bit was originally intended to end the episode when it was just a 2-parter. It makes much more sense considering what Rimmer’s saying. Commercials aren’t inherent to all multi-part stories, but cliff-hangers are.
Nice one, thanks guys and girls for doing this. A great Listen. I wonder if you knew when you decided to do this kind of coverage how much hassle it would be and also how hard it would be to judge the nature of BTE with out seeing all three parts of it. But it’s been great to hear something like this so quickly, and really appreciated that you have done this. The fact that the TV episode was a headfuck to the extent you started questioning whether this was Red Dwarf or television about Red Dwarf was hilarious to me. The final instant-cast is going to be fun, I cant see it recovering everything you guys feel. But it’s a lucky result that there is just such a differing set of opinions because what ever the views or the listener there is a person they can probably empathize with. I feel like that day in berkley park, I met John Hoare on his last real day as a Red Dwarf fan before this shook him away, it’s heartbreaking to hear. He’ll be absent tomorrow night sat on bootle municipal golf course, sobbing into a banana bomb while practicing really bad knee bending stances and poor club holding angles before hurling it all at the green in frustration. Nice to get a mention, yes it’s true it’s been a long time since i’ve seen blade runner so I didn’t get the references, but this didn’t bother me, has anyone made the point yet about Casablanca and camile? I’d never seen Casablanca before, and sure some the lines are perhaps more iconic than blade runner references, but it never spoiled my enjoyment of Camile, and it made me search out the original. I think blade runner is enough of a seminal movie to reference and expect either the audience to know about, or not know about it and still have it as intrigue that leads into part three.
What if part one had had a laugh track, which stopped as soon as they got to Earth? That would have been interesting. And doesn’t Doug write about Star Fleet in Last Human?
Righht – having listened to all of that – eventually – I’m surprised how you’ve all got such an uncertain attitude to this. Very surprised at Ian not liking this more than last night, that really shocked me. As for John – well, bless John. I think maybe you need to do a separate poll for those of us – myself included – who’ve never seen BladeRunner, and whether it detracts from their enjoyment. And also, following this, do we – and more importantly, do the G&T team – want more Red Dwarf, or should it be retired gracefully?
I think maybe you need to do a separate poll for those of us – myself included – who?ve never seen BladeRunner, and whether it detracts from their enjoyment. I’ve never seen Star Trek. I like Futurama’s Star Trek episode a lot. I’ve never seen Blade Runner. I feel BtE is ruined in some way because of this.
I will be ordering the 2 disc edition of Blade Runner on tuesday so if this 3 parter has done anything it has put up the sales for the Blade Runner DVDs =]
I may go and get it from Blockbuster. I’m not going to buy it just to understand a couple of references in this. There were a lot of references in Spaced that I never understood – I haven’t seen Star Wars since the late eighties – but I fooking love that show.
Was a very interesting listen and it has made me feel uncomfortable about the episode. On the one hand I thought it was funny and I enjoyed it but on the other…well…everything you guys said really. I don’t know what to make of it but I just know that despite everything I did like it. I’d rather have this than nothing at all.
I think the Bladerunner content works. If you’ve seen it, it’s relation is a perfect companion. If you haven’t it’s intriguing. There have been many thousands of reference jokes in Red Dwarf, but not in the scale or quantity in such a short space of time. Some you get first time some you have no idea. I think maybe directing all the reference to Bladerunner, a single film has a definite bearing on the final Episode. I like listening to all your opinions, and it’s great to hear you all have a an own comment to contribute. John does take the floor quite a bit, I’m not concerned what he has to say. It’s his opinion, it is well put. I would like to hear more of the rest of you.
I haven’t seen Blade Runner, meaning I’m a lot less annoyed at this episode than some, it seems. Okay, a few things went over my head, but none of the references stopped the show making sense to me, the only questions I have are character related. (like “Why the fuck have they been so accepting of things so far?”) > I actually thought the ?End of Part 1? bit was originally intended to end the episode when it was just a 2-parter. It makes much more sense considering what Rimmer?s saying. Well, maybe.. if Rimmer hadn’t just clearly stated “I hate three-parters!”. Maybe it was the original scripted ending to Pt 1, but by the point of filming they had clearly chosen to change it to a three parter, in which case they should have reassessed whether it would actually work as intended before filming it. I think the reason it confused a lot of people was simply because they didn’t linger on the “freeze frame” for anywhere near long enough for it to become obvious that this is what they were attempting. It just seemed like another abrupt cut to an advert, it seemed like a fuck up by the broadcasters, rather than a joke in the show. Would have worked a lot better if Pt 1 hadn’t cut so abruptly to an ad break, and if the show had ‘End of part one’ stings.
>Well, maybe.. if Rimmer hadn?t just clearly stated ?I hate three-parters!?. Close you eyes and pretend he says “I hate two-parters!”. Since the cliff-hanger is easily the most annoying thing about a two parter, it would make sense that the episode would end there. It wouldn’t be particularly exciting, but it would be amusing.
Another very entertaining Dwarfcast, btw. I disagreed with the general consensus of Dwarfcast 1 (sans John’s misgivings), but I don’t think there was anything here I didn’t completely agree with. >John does take the floor quite a bit I’d say Seb is the most vocal (and, incidentally, the most positive).
It’s possibly worth clarifying the golf comment, because I agree it doesn’t come across especially well! When I said the golf was “better”, what I mean is that – for me – I think the golf coverage succeeds more in what it’s trying to do. Whether I’d rather watch the golf coverage than this – well, that’s all tied up in my affection for Red Dwarf. WHATEVER Back to Earth was doing, I’d choose to watch this than the golf, I admit, because I’d need to see what Dwarf was up to. My point, which I didn’t put across amazingly well, is that I think the golf coverage succeeds better on its own terms. The point is not actually about golf at all, but how I feel about BtE. It’s not a positive for the golf coverage, but a negative about BtE. I have other things to say about how I feel about BtE – and about a genuine confusion I have as to how much of my negativity towards BtE is about the stuff I don’t think works, and how much of it does work but perhaps is just not for me – but… well, I’ll save it for tonight’s Dwarfcast! Glad people are enjoying them – they’re a lot of fun to do.
I loved the Bladerunner stuff. Yes, there was a lot of it, but too much? Maybe it was a little heavy-handed, but I enjoyed it immensely so I don?t care. :P Despite what I said, I actually did like it as a scene and I got a bit of a geeky thrill out of it. (I like Bladerunner a lot.) But as as scene of Red Dwarf it just felt too blatant. I quite like the little homages, like the Termi-vision stuff in The Last day and the trekky stuff in… The Last Day, Holoship and Tikka To Ride. But then it felt like more of a nod, and still very much within the universe of the show. This feels almost like a rip off. A comedic rip off, that might fit in a sketch show but I’m not sure about Red Dwarf. I guess my feelings are ambivalent. But I’m not sure about the context and sheer density. The screen zooming bit was brilliant in it’s complex silliness though. I’m not sure Rimmer would be bright enough to work all that out, but it was a great gag, particularly with the phone-book line later. I doubt this stuff will spoil the specials for me though. ;)
Thanks for clearing that up. I don’t think you’re negative John, you have well constructed points, it’s not being negative, an open mind with questions. I wasn’t trying to say all we could hear is John with his doubts. Seb’s comments make me genuinely happy. Looking at all the fanship comments as a whole, the split isn’t quite equal, which I didn’t expect. You always get the massive swing hate or love, but there is a lot of middle ground here, and a lot still keeping it real. I’m sure taking the whole thing as a whole, the final outcome will be different. Personally, I would like to hear a feature length Dwarfcast on all 3 Eps.
James – no problem. Thanks. John – were you a fan out 7 and 8? Just out of interest. Not at all, I’m afraid!
Anyone who has never seen Blade Runner definitely DO check out the Final Cut version (on Blu-ray, if you have the capability). IMO up until the Final Cut it was still a brilliant film but those extra little changes that were made perfected it. It’s one of the true sci-fi classics, make no mistake, and it affects everyone in different ways. I suppose it depends on how deeply you think about what’s going on, and how dark you allow it to be, also whether you like a slow film or not, because it certainly is SLOW but perfectly measured. Some of the greatest lines ever, particularly Eddie Olmos’s last.
Another great DwarfCast. Interested to hear how many of my own concerns were brought up. Tonight’s DwarfCast will be a damn good listen I’m sure, even if BTE part 3 proves not to be enjoyable for me (but it may yet).
> but it was a great gag, particularly with the phone-book line later. I think that gag would have been better if Kryten appeared with a phone book in his hand (he could have got it from behind the counter). A little like the teleporter gag.
I have the multidisk boxset. So many versions….. heh. I got it when the price went down a couple of years back. It went down very low, the right back up again. I forget why, maybe it was an April Fool’s joke. It was pretty lucky I was in the right place at the right time. has anyone made the point yet about Casablanca and camile? I’d forgotten that, and you make a good point. I loved those scenes, and it’s true the homage there is pretty blatant, yet worked very well. Again, I think my main problem with the Bladerunner refs* is the shere density of material. I very much look forward to how it’ll all work out though. 30 minutes certainly doesn’t seem enough time. *and I’d like to say, it doesn’t really anger me or spoil the episodes.
I just ordered Blade Runner from play.com and i feel dirty. I need to see this film now thanks to Red Dwarf but i really wish i didn’t.
I?ve never seen Star Trek. I like Futurama?s Star Trek episode a lot. I?ve never seen Blade Runner. I feel BtE is ruined in some way because of this. This. Except that I HAVE seen Blade Runner and I still feel it’s getting in the way of this. The Blade Runner jokes don’t work as jokes outside of their relevance to the Blade Runner universe. They’re just there. Sometimes small and inoffensive, but other times (the fucking nosemaker) we have to sit patiently and twiddle our thumbs before the Red Dwarf aspect of the story kicks in again. (And wonder, all the while, why exactly this was impossible to trim down into two parts.) The Futurama Star Trek episode works because the jokes still function as Futurama jokes. (Is there an extra layer to the comedy if you’re a Trekkie? I’m sure there is, but I’m not, and I still love it.) Here they only work as references if you’re already familiar with the source material. I sure hope the next three-parter is a Red-Dwarf retelling of Star Wars, with a special appearance by the big chicken from Family Guy.
I enjoyed the esper machine scene in BTE with out realising it was blade runner, at first. I thought it was kryten technology, I missed the uncrop joke first time but laughed on rewatching. After seeing it a couple of times and reading the site I remembered having played the Blade runner game ages ago. I enjoyed the scene with Swallow with out knowing it was a reference to blade runner, it just came across as being a sad collector of memorabillia who was working in the industry and had a shit job in terms of not doing much, I was mostly realising on first watch that simulants werent part of the show afterall, and on second watch I found the scene a bit weird with the mention of the lines “he made your brain” which were hard to hear and work out, and over all I felt the scene was odd and I was missing something. So I now conceed it would have worked better for blade runner fans than It did for me. The scene we havnt fully seen yet of the glass shooting, works as a cool look even if I hadnt been told ages ago it was from blade runner. The origami totally confused me, and it’s the kind of thing that would make me go and look at the internet to find out about it. I strongly believe the origami will come to light as a plot point, as will blade runner further be reference in part three we are either in for a complete resolve for all of it’s inclusion in this or we are going to get an ending as ambiguious as the blade runner dekard is a replicant debate that still gets opinions from fans to this day. Considering Ridley involvement in aliens as well as blade runner I dont think it’s fair to say this kind of thing hasnt been an influence on red dwarf before, but i can see why people feel it’s swamping this a little there being so much of it. It’s not just blade runner parody for the sake of it though is it. This is a good 30 percent of the plot in this three parter, the same way Camile is 30 percent humphrey bogart movies.
Regarding the effectiveness of the Blade Runner referencing, we’ve actually had a pretty good discussion about this kind of thing in the forum before: http://www.ganymede.tv/forum/2008/10/cultural-reference
I found the scene a bit weird with the mention of the lines ?he made your brain? which were hard to hear and work out, Ah yes. Not to spoil to much, iIn Bladerunner I think it was a different character (Sebastian) who said that (rather than the Chinese man who made eyes) and of course in Bladerunner it was meant literally. In this it sounds a bit odd, yet technically it works. The writer and actor makes the character’s personality (i.e mind, brain) after all.
I’ve just watched both parts again (that takes me to about 4 times), and it’s taken Jonsmad to tell me that he’s saying “He made your brain”
>> I found the scene a bit weird with the mention of the lines ?he made your brain? which were hard to hear and work out > in Bladerunner I think it was a different character (Sebastian) who said that (rather than the Chinese man who made eyes) No, the Chinese guy says it (I watched Bladerunner again this morning).
Ok. I think Sebastian said something similar, which I was getting mixed up with. Hmm. Maybe I’ll dig it out again before part 3.
The amount of Blade Runner references is very strange. Might it be that the crew watched Blade Runner recently, and that’s why there are loads of references to it in their group hallucination, if that’s what it is?
> This. Except that I HAVE seen Blade Runner and I still >feel it?s getting in the way of this. The Blade Runner >jokes don?t work as jokes outside of their relevance to >the Blade Runner universe. They?re just there. Sometimes >small and inoffensive, but other times (the fucking >nosemaker) we have to sit patiently and twiddle our >thumbs before the Red Dwarf aspect of the story kicks in >again. (And wonder, all the while, why exactly this was >impossible to trim down into two parts.) Well put. It feels like Doug became so obsessed with putting Blade Runner references into this that he forgot about about whether they were needed to move the story along.
> Well put. It feels like Doug became so obsessed with putting Blade Runner references into this that he forgot about about whether they were needed to move the story along. Quite so. There were large stretches of part 2 I found either cringeworthy, boring, or both, and this apparent obsession with BR (Which I haven’t seen, and thus don’t get the references to) didn’t help. Hopes for pt 3… fading.
>Glad they weren?t watching the flintstones again then. That should be a Cat line in part 3. No, really. It got a bigger laugh out of me than… …well, you see where I’m going with this.
Hm. Mixed opinions…mostly disappointment, honestly. I’ll wait for Part 3 before casting final judgment, though.
Hello, long time lurker first time poster but is Naylor using ideas he would have used in any potential film or was this written afresh once the Dave commission came through Thanks
He wrote this starting in November 08 he says in the recent interview. I’m not sure whether anything from the movie moved over to this script. There was certainly talk of a re-boot and homo-sapien-oids in the movie so this isnt a complete port over of the same ideas no. It’s different. He was using ideas that ridley scott once used in a film if that helps!
Yeah, if anything I assume it’d be ideas here and there, but the movie was always said to be a story reboot.
I’ve changed my mind somewhat on the Bladerunner stuff. I wouldn’t have minded a bit less, and more Dwarf (the china town bit seemed almost a different world, but then again that was when things became more surreal anyway) but if RD was truly inspired by Bladerunner it makes sense. I don’t see a whole lot of similarity myself (except dressing stuff, corporations, AI, no aliens, etc.) That might have just been an excuse to rope it into that fictional world, but it rings a bell. I think I remember Doug or Rob mentioning it in one of the commentaries (although Dark Star seemed to be the main one.)
Now i’ve seen the third episode i don’t mind the Blade Runner stuff. I still think there was a bit too much of it but i worked well in the big picture.
I just googled Mark Benton and got this on his Wiki entry: In the The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus Benton plays the character of Dad for a Christmas 2009 release. Gets around. ;)
