Music and Models: Fucked? Audience Screenings: Yay! News Posted by Jonathan Capps on 2nd March 2012, 11:07 As the edit for Red Dwarf X continues we’ve been starting to see a few cracks appearing, mainly thanks to an alarmingly candid Doug Naylor saying whatever he damn well pleases on Twitter. This is obviously brilliant for fans, but I can’t imagine it’s all that fantastic for the other people on the production. Alex Newsome, over on rival fansite Gazpacho Soup, has done an annoyingly good job of keeping on top of everything (the prick) but at least it means I can just steal his quotes of combined Tweets wholesale, like this: Discovered today no money was put in the budget for music, apart from opening + closing credits. Me and a kazzoo for action sequences then. We’ve had music links in ever single series. No-one ever had to hum them + I’m not even allowed to hum Mr Goodall’s as we don’t have rights. Is it possible to make a set of bag-pipes out of a Producer’s intestines? I may try anyway. There’s already been plenty of discussion about this, so I’ll keep this brief: it’s incredibly strange and slightly worrying that this has been allowed to happen, obviously. You have to assume something will be sorted out in the end, and Richard has been going through all of the old Howard Goodall stings (with the help of our very own Danny Stephenson and his Dropbox account), presumably with the intention of working what they need and how much it will be before taking the hit. Quite apart from this particular production fuck balls, it’s even more bizarre that Doug Naylor, co-creator, writer and Executive Producer would so publicly air the production’s problems, and even go as far to mention a particular producer. I’m not saying this is particularly bad, I love Doug’s honesty and candour, but it’s certainly highly unusual. So, skip forward a few days to last night, and Doug’s mentioned model re-shoots: Just off to see Bill Pearson to look at models for our miniature reshoot. Bill Pearson, you may remember, is the incredibly lovely man the production went to throughout Series VIII to build stuff for barely any money and in even less time. Are we to assume that this indicates that something’s gone ever so slightly wrong with the main model shoot? Peter Talbot is clearly talented and well suited to the show (as we’ve recently discovered, he was Bill’s cameraman for VIII) but I think it’s fair to say a model re-shoot at this point in the production isn’t exactly what was planned, even if we are currently unclear on the finer details. In fact, AS I AM WRITING THIS, Doug has posted this… Miniature refurbs looking really good – detailing so much better and not even finished yet! …and this one, describing the model shoot as “disastrous”. Gulp. Great news: Steve Begg, Skyfall Vfx super heard about our disastrous first miniature shoot and has offered to help!! So, what are they refurbing? Some small guest models? Maybe Starbug or Blue Midget (if they’re being used)? or… Red Dwarf? My initial thought was that this re-shoot might actually be just to shoot stuff they didn’t have time to do during the main production, but… no, it does actually seem like that first model shoot has gone wrong in some fairly significant way. His mention of a refurb suggests it might be a problem with the models themselves, but remember the model unit used the main production’s RED Epics, which aren’t exactly known for their suitability for models. It’s at this point it would be REALLY fucking easy to go on and on and ON about how they should’ve used The Model Unit and Pete Tyler and at the moment that’s almost unbearably tempting (despite being way too simplistic given how we know fuck all about budget restraints and the like), but lessons are clearly being learnt here and there’s obviously real effort being put into fixing whatever has gone wrong. I’m sure everything will work out peachy in the end but, for the first time ever, we’re actually getting to hear about production horror stories normally reserved for retrospective documentaries released years later. It’s exciting but just a little bit terrifying, too. Finally, let’s end on some good news. As revealed by Doug yesterday, they’re going to be conducting audience screenings so they can get genuine laughs for the scenes not recorded or shown in front of an audience: Planning to show some rough edits to invited audience in April to record laughter on show sequences not so far seen. Smashing. This is something Richard has mentioned in the past but I’m glad this is now looking like a definite thing. As comedy fans, we’re all aware of the moving around of laughs for the sake of the edit, but as there were such a large amount of re-shoots and scenes shot after the fact, it would make me more than a little uncomfortable to see those laughs entirely fabricated in the edit. So, there’s a lot going on, but at the very least we should start to get a very good idea about how the almost finished episodes are shaping up next month. No doubt we’ll hear how one can be “invited” to one of these screenings soon. Now, if you’ll excuse us, we’ll be on Twitter fluttering our collective eyelashes at the Naylors.
Doug’s just tweeted what I assume might be the reason for the disastrous shoot?: 1st shoot brought 4ward in sched with little notice 2 save £. Mins not ready or built in a day, no test shoot, director busy on main shoot. Took me a few times reading that to understand it, but then again I’m tired, so fuck comprehension.
Hah, I’d just added that as an addendum, but we may-as-well use the comments now. So, that little money saving exercise has resulted in action that is almost certain to end up costing MORE money. Brilliant. Anyway, Doug’s just Tweeted us another bit of clarification: I’d say with exception of 6 shots, everything has to be reshot on 1st miniature shoot. So happy I’ll be there 4 reshoot. Wow, that sounds like a lot needs to be reshot. Blimey. Still, Doug’s on the case and this is going to make a great story one day. I’m so glad he’s taking POSITIVE ACTION to get this sorted rather than settling for what he has.
Alex Newsome, over on rival fansite Gazpacho Soup, has done an annoyingly good job of keeping on top of everything (the prick) On the upside, it’s driving me mental to keep up. The Naylor’s seem to be leakier than a perforated bladder.
Ooh, nice RDX concept logo over on Gazpacho Soup. I’m sure whoever made it must be… me. Oh it’s yours? I’ve been trying to remember where I found it. I saved it onto the computer a while ago as it was good, but now I can’t remember where I found it. Seemed like the obvious thing to use when I needed something. I can change it if you like, or if you don’t mind it being it being used I’ll find somewhere to put a credit up.
All these mentions of “The Naylors”. Sounds like a 70s sitcom. ‘Dad has a bad day at the office – with hilarious consequences! Meanwhile, Richard tries to find some music as cheaply as possible – which isn’t as easy as it sounds…’
Credit would be great, Alex – cheers. Incidentally, I believe you found the image over on http://www.ghostwatchbtc.com – the web’s number one source for all things… Pipey? ;)
Credit would be great, Alex – cheers. Incidentally, I believe you found the image over on http://www.ghostwatchbtc.com – the web’s number one source for all things… Pipey? ;) Ok, I’ve put a credit and link to your YouTube account on the about page and I’ll have a look at getting something on the main one too. Thanks for that, I’d be lost without that image at the moment with so many updates. That may well have been the site, though it equally might have been off an an image search. Memory totally missing there.
>All these mentions of “The Naylors”. Sounds like a 70s sitcom. ‘Dad has a bad day at the office – with hilarious consequences! Meanwhile, Richard tries to find some music as cheaply as possible – which isn’t as easy as it sounds…’ Hmmm… THE NAYLORS INT. NAYLOR RESIDENCE – LOUNGE ROOM (Dougie enters stage left) Richie: Hi Dad, how was work? Dougie: Awful. The model shots are ruined. The camera was too intense, the model was way too red, the model fell into a black hole and blah blah blah. Richie: You’ve think you’ve got it bad? I’ve been trying to find some music for the series. Dougie: Oh yeah, how is that going then? Richie: Harder then you think. I tried to learn the Banjo to use some of it in the show, but we don’t have a banjo. Dougie: I don’t think a banjo would work with the model shots, if they ever get done. Richie: Whatever! The point is getting music is hard. Goodall wont budge for cheap, he won’t even settle for that crate of Pot Noodles i’ve had lying around. Dougie: Rich, no one wants that crate of Pot Noodles, not even Cannibalistic Pot Noodles want Pot Noodles. Richie: Hang on a minute! I’ve just had an idea! What if I sneak into the Goodall offices ‘Mission Impossible’ style, dangle from the roof, and steal the music files? Dougie: I can think of atleast 10 reasons that won’t work- Richie: Then it’s decided! Tonight, I’m breaking the Piano! (FADE SCENE TO FLYBY OF NAYLOR RESIDENCE) [MUSIC MISSING DUE TO RIGHTS ISSUES] There, the only question left is will BBC2 accept this hastily-written masterpiece? …Nope.
>Ok, I’ve put a credit and link to your YouTube account on the about page Thank you, sir. :) >It’s at this point it would be REALLY fucking easy to go on and on and ON about how they should’ve used The Model Unit and Pete Tyler This. Somehow, I bloody KNEW something like this was going to happen with the models. That teaser image, although promising, was way too overexposed on the starboard side, but I don’t know if that’s indicative of their initial lighting setup. And as far as music’s concerned, I know for a fact that Doug has a pair of spoons kicking about somewhere. Whether or not he can play them to broadcast quality, only time will tell. Failing that, there’s always the comb and tissue paper. Problem solved?
> That teaser image, although promising, was way too overexposed on the starboard side And you said NOTHING?! That’s it, YOU’RE paying for the reshoots.
>And you said NOTHING?! That’s it, YOU’RE paying for the reshoots. Pictures speak louder than words… :) width=500> http://www.ganymede.tv/atspeed/2012/02/the-red-dwarf-model-there-also-no-model-unit#comment-174210
This will probably end up with their being a message at the bottom of the screen telling us to sing an appropriate sting whenever there’s a flyby.
>That teaser image, although promising, was way too overexposed on the starboard side, but I don’t know if that’s indicative of their initial lighting setup. Probably not, seeing as how it was a photograph of the model, rather than a still frame from shooting!
Do you know what I hope they fix? The ‘plate’ that says ‘Red Dwarf’ because at the moment it looks like a sticker that’s warped and creased…
>Probably not, seeing as how it was a photograph of the model, rather than a still frame from shooting! Of course, but presumably that IS the lighting setup for the miniatures shoot though (or at least, for that particular shot)? A camera flash would’ve lit the fore sections, too. Either way, overexposing isn’t really that big a deal as it can be (and often is) fixed in the grade. Would be interesting to find out what specifically ‘went wrong’ with the first model shoot. Focal issues? Depth of field? Misjudged frame rate? Motion control? Model not holding up under close-ups?
Failure to notice three red warning blips after spilling black cona coffee with four sugars onto RED computer console?
Dear….Harry Hill. I was filming my Red Dwarf model accidentally sowing its head to the curtains, when joke on joke i realised i’d forgotten to put the card in the camera. Take a look at this blank card , i think you’ll agree hilarity prevails! Please make the cheque out to Doug Naylor.
Who are The Producers for RDX anyway? Curious as to whose intestines would make a lovely set of bagpipes in DN’s opinion…
Do you know what I hope they fix? The ‘plate’ that says ‘Red Dwarf’ because at the moment it looks like a sticker that’s warped and creased… Yes, that concerned me too. BUT IT’S NOEL’S CHRISTMAS FAMILY VIDEO ACCIDENTS. I don’t care, we’re English here and we’re going to do the model shoot properly. Alright? Well, unless there’s a Bond film on, obviously.
It’s at this point it would be REALLY fucking easy to go on and on and ON about how they should’ve used The Model Unit and Pete Tyler… The reason that it’s so easy is that we all know if The Model Unit were involved then they wouldn’t be having these issues now. Never has the phrase “false economy” been more accurate. There is a reason that we all love TMU guys so much and it’s not their jazzy shirts and rocking dancefloor moves!
The reason that it’s so easy is that we all know if The Model Unit were involved then they wouldn’t be having these issues now. Never has the phrase “false economy” been more accurate. There is a reason that we all love TMU guys so much and it’s not their jazzy shirts and rocking dancefloor moves! Hopefully, this has all been a lesson learnt for next time (if we get another series). While it’s great to now have Bill and Steve taking over, it’s still a case of being the most suitable for the job in the absence of Mike Tucker and team.
>Never has the phrase “false economy” been more accurate. Absolutely. I hate to say it, but at this rate, they probably would’ve been better off going the CG route for the FX (being that much cheaper and easier to make alterations if and when needs be). Even though I personally prefer practical photography over CG, if the footage ultimately doesn’t work, then budgetarily, why take the chance?
Oh well, hopefully it’ll make more fodder for the DVD docs :) Where’s Chris Veale when you need him!?
>Where’s Chris Veale when you need him!? I rate Chris – particularly his VII Xtended opening sequence. That stuff’s flat-out cinematic.
Anything Chris did where the shots were in 3D, rather than overlaying a flat Starbug onto a starscape, looks good. The problem with VIII’s CGI isn’t that it looks shit, it’s that it doesn’t look Dwarf-ish. It’s too glossy. And he did the DVD menus, so I’m pretty sure that should claw him back a fair amount of respect.
>it doesn’t look Dwarf-ish. It’s too glossy. Umm… you do know that RDX was shot on RED, don’t you? ;D Actually, what in fact does constitute as ‘glossy’ these days? The model shots all the way up to VI look pretty glossy to me. Well lit, shot on film, etc.
And he did the DVD menus, so I’m pretty sure that should claw him back a fair amount of respect. Quite right. It’s just become a bit of a cliche to take the piss really. In reality, it’s not his fault, but more a circumstance of the time he had and what was avalible at the time
Chris Veale only did the DVD menus for Bodysnatcher, didn’t he? I though Deluxe Digital did the rest of them alone.
We can guess that the 6 useable model shots are Dwarf flybys and that other, unfinished models looked dodgy on camera? It’s a good job they’ve got a few months to sort this out…!
>Actually, what in fact does constitute as ‘glossy’ these days? The model shots all the way up to VI look pretty glossy to me. Well lit, shot on film, etc. Yeah, but they also look grimy. Tangible. Real. They go nicely with the fact that Red Dwarf is just another beat up old hunk of junk, like thousands of other ships out there. It’s nothing special: and that’s basically the premise of the entire series. I really like the pencil design (I know, it’s not a popular opinion around here) because it makes for an awesome-looking spaceship. And floating through space in front of all of those nebulae, with its sexy dark red paint job, it looks great. But it’s not Red Dwarf. It’s too glamorous. It looks… too Star Trek.
So, does the term ‘glossy’ here apply to the photography, or the actual miniature work, itself? Chris’s models have a fair amount of weathering textures to help give them that ‘used’ look which I feel approximates the physical miniatures fairly well. The USS Pencil has tons of dirt and grime around the ramscoop. Blue Midget’s hull is scratched and pitted all over the place, too. The biggest differences that I can recall between the two methods were the dynamic camera angles, motion and colour saturation. Chris’s stuff tends to be richer in contrast and colour, but again, is that more of a grading issue..? I think the biggest hindrance to the Remastered shots was the blanket lighting. The Model Unit really knows how to light a miniature. > I really like the pencil design (I know, it’s not a popular opinion around here) because it makes for an awesome-looking spaceship The fact that it was built in mind for widescreen and presented in 4:3 (or 14:9, at best) didn’t help its cause. But no, it’s not Red Dwarf… not by a *long* shot. :)
Quite right. It’s just become a bit of a cliche to take the piss really. In reality, it’s not his fault, but more a circumstance of the time he had and what was avalible at the time Oh don’t get me wrong, i was far from taking the piss. I was genuinely asking! I think the scene in extended Tikka to Ride when Starbug separates into two is some of the best quality CGI i’ve seen, past or present. Still not to decent model shot standard, but still.
>I think the scene in extended Tikka to Ride when Starbug separates into two is some of the best quality CGI i’ve seen, past or present. It still blows my mind that shot is CG. Outstanding.
> It still blows my mind that shot is CG. Outstanding. Its all about the lighting. Look at the lighting on the side of the bug. It’s top notch!
From Richard Naylor’s Twitter: Just been down to Bill Pearson’s workshop, he’s nearly finished building a fantastic new ship for RDX Series X. WHOA-HO-HO-HO!!! What’s all this? He also tweets: Not a new Red Dwarf ship btw. Discuss.
I think it’s a spaceship, right, for the new series of Red Dwarf, yeah? But it’s *not* ‘RED DWARF’ itself, yeah? Summat different. Yeah.
I think I know what this is and if so I’m glad it’s actually being built as a model. And because a fair few of us can take a good guess after the recordings, we’re once again all quiet where there would normally be rampant speculation as to whether this was Starbug, Blue Midget or something new.
>And because a fair few of us can take a good guess after the recordings, we’re once again all quiet where there would normally be rampant speculation as to whether this was Starbug, Blue Midget or something new. It must be very frustrating for you, to keep your inside info to yourself every time some new bit of news gets out. I’d almost feel sympathy for you, except – you got to see RDX filmed and I didn’t! PS: Great job with Gazpacho Soup!
It must be very frustrating for you, to keep your inside info to yourself every time some new bit of news gets out. I’d almost feel sympathy for you, except – you got to see RDX filmed and I didn’t! It’s our cross to bear. It’s an awesome cross, though…
It must be very frustrating for you, to keep your inside info to yourself every time some new bit of news gets out. I’d almost feel sympathy for you, except – you got to see RDX filmed and I didn’t! Yes, it is slightly like complaining I don’t have a big enough house to put all my money in. Still, it is a slightly sad trade off. We got to see a rough version months before broadcast, but then consequently missing a lot of the run up excitement like we had for Back to Earth. PS: Great job with Gazpacho Soup! Danke. :)
Doug has just tweeted: Q: Miniature shoot, 7 foot model, not brilliant up close. Red Epics. Do u shoot 4/5k 35mm lenses or 2k 16mm with 16-9 extraction? OH dear, it seems the models don’t seem to be holding up to HD :(
I know they’re sticking with all digital shooting for the models, probably due to cost, but if they’d shot the models on film first they could still have converted that to HD right?
35mm IS HD. It would have worked fine. As for the model situation… I had hoped I wouldn’t live to see the day when Red Dwarf has to crowdsource advice on how to do model shoots. It’s ludicrously embarrassing.
In fairness, the RED camera is an absolute shitter to film with and the support isn’t great. Crowdsourcing advice is probably the best way to go, to be honest.
They’ve been doing the model reshoots this week. Richard tweeted: So excited for you guys to see the model work this series #reddwarf We’ve done a months work in 4 days and it looks brilliant. *I* tweeted: @RichardDGNaylor Pleased to hear it. September can’t come quickly enough. :) #RedDwarf #RDX and received this reply: @bromley001 October ; ) So, that looks like a definite(ish) start date. Well, a start month, at least. No ‘early/mid/late Oct’, but ‘october’, nonetheless. Someone pick a number between 1 and 31.
Well Doug tweeted that they’ve slated 192 model shots in 4 days. They’re really pushing the boat out on the model shots aren’t they? He REALLY can’t have been happy with the original ones, or he just wanted an absolute gluttony of choice for the edits.
>I think it’ll start w/c 8th October. No good reason, just…well. I am wondering which day in the week the show will air on. For some reason, I am expecting it to air on a Thursday.
Me too, actually. Although if they put it on on a wednesday, Dave could make a big marketing thing about series 10 starting on 10/10. The w/c 8th Oct thing isn’t just me picking a random date, btw. I’m going on the week ‘Suits’ started on Dave (w/c 16/1/12), and worked in 13 week cycles from there. The start of the next 13 week cycle is the week after next, when they are advertising the start of Dara O’Briain’s new show. So there is some method in my madness.
Here’s an interesting bit of info for you. The model shoot originally only had 22 planned shots. That’s a significant increase.
22 into 194. Wow. Presumably a lot will be different passing shots of Red Dwarf. Maybe through the whole run they won’t need to repeat a shot.
Don’t forget they’ve also got that ‘modular’ model system where they can plug in different parts of the ship.
Don’t forget they’ve also got that ‘modular’ model system where they can plug in different parts of the ship. That could be really interesting. In prospect, it should allow for a big variety of shots which show more of the surface of the ship than we’ve ever seen up close before.
It seems that Bill was actually referring to the beauty passes of the Dwarf, but Richard Naylor has clarified that the original intention was something like 60 to 70 shots. Still a large increase though.
Makes sense if they are hoping to produce multiple new series, get lots of Red Dwarf shots now so they have a stockpile in case the ship falls off a shelf again.
Looking great, isn’t it? Looks as though they’re carrying on with the right-to-left shots of the ship, like with BtE.
Looks like the right end of the ship to me. The ramscoop being just out of shot. Richard Naylor has said on twitter that the picture is from the test shoot.
Finally a nice Easter gift that we have all been waiting for! I’m intrigued about the Red Dwarf name plate, it does seem to differ in style slightly from the one in the above photo, the 2 extra white lines at the top and bottom are a new edition. could this be an Additional name plate, which has not been clearly visible in the past? All of the previous plates have retained the same look, this one looks more stylised, like boys have been on PD and have decided to give old girl freshen up!
I asked Richard Naylor where this is from and apparently it is footage from the test shoot last week.
Squeaky – I can’t tell whether the name plate has been redone or not. I assumed it was the same one but now that you mentioned those details I’m not so sure. At any rate, it’s nice to see the name plate looking much more realistic as well as grimier. Happy Easter indeed! (:
Spending another night browsing, pressing random, and end up here and here Blimey. Fascinating looking back at these now, all the model issues as they were happening in Series X. Knowing everything we know from the documentary. Everything that was to come after this… (Sorry, promise I’ll try not to do this for every random article I come across while browsing)
