Let’s Talk About Entangled News Posted by Jonathan Capps on 25th October 2012, 19:00 Right everyone, it’s once again time to SIT THE FUCK DOWN and make the necessary preparations for another night of new Red Dwarf. This week we’ll be watching, entranced, as Entangled makes it première on Dave or Dave HD (whatever’s your poison) at 9.00pm. This episode is going to be a fun filled extravaganza, I’m sure you’ll agree. As we’re very slow learners, we’ll once again be reading out a collection of your probably wrong opinions on tonight’s LIVE DwarfCast, so be sure to fill this thread to bursting with whatever half formed drivel you seem to think would be appropriate for public consumption. We’ll be starting the show proper at 10pm sharp, but we’ll be posting the link to the stream here and over on our Twitter shortly after the episode finishes. As usual, there’s a chance the site will literally crumble under the weight of visitors, so it’s always prudent to keep an eye on @ganymedetitan for updates and a reliable medium in which to give us your opinions and call us pricks. We’ve got a good show lined up for you today, with a pre-recorded interview with Steven Wickham plus a VERY SPECIAL GUEST, although that’s stretching the definition of “special” to near breaking point. Finally, while you’re waiting for the fun to begin, you could do a lot worse than brush up Danny Stephenson’s set report for this episode and ponder on what it could all possibly mean. So, to summarise, 1) sit the fuck down, 2) read Danny’s set report, 3) watch the episode (NOTE: this bit is important), 4) tell us what you think, 5) listen, 6) fuck off.
To be honest, I was ready to talk about Entangled this morning, but I didn’t want to piss everyone off, so I wrote a blog post instead (http://bromley001.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/new-red-dwarf-tonight/). I’m really looking forward to Entangled – as I’ve said elsewhere, it’s been the clips from this episode in the trailers that have raised the most smiles. It really looks and feels like ‘Classic’ Dwarf. I just hope I don’t overexcite/hype myself for tonight, and wind up disappointed. And after listening to ‘Soup’s podcast earlier, I’ve even watched Lemons again this afternoon. Still don’t know why I don’t like it, I can see which are the good bits. I’m certainly smiling a little more. So, yeah – Entangled. Bring it on.
Long time reader, first time poster. Excited about tonight, Entangled is the episode I have been looking forward to most, from the trailers it looks like something out of series 5 or 6. Which is nice.
I’m very much a person who is looking forward to tonight’s episode; indeed, I am possibly agog with excitement!
Having seen this episode…. I don’t have a fucking clue what it’s all about. Really can’t wait to see it finished!
>From what I’ve heard this sounds very Emohawk! :) From the soundless clip I’ve just seen on Dave, it is very Emohawk.
Here we go ladies and gents!! from what i have been reading its one of the strong episodes of this series!! one im really looking forward to! this one and ‘The Beginning’. :)
I thought that was a superb first half. Maybe the most consistently solid of the series so far. Completely in character, full of laughs, the first scene was brilliant (for the first time in series X). Felt very ‘classic’ era.
Solid first half so far. people that have been moaning about Rimmers lack of being anal should be pleased :) Loving cat getting all the jokes again!
This is a bit fucking good isn’t it? A good plot, a proper dilemma, some classic gags. Signs are good! And did anyone just notice the music from the series 1 Holly introductions immediately before the ad break?
Opening dialogue between Rimmer and Lister suggests that it’s the original Rimmer, not the Series 8 one. Also no mention of the resurrected crew. Is Series 8 bypassed completely?
Opening dialogue between Rimmer and Lister suggests that it’s the original Rimmer, not the Series 8 one. Also no mention of the resurrected crew. Is Series 8 bypassed completely? im hoping The Beginning will explain this. either they rebooted the original rimmer hologram drive or somehow he came back from playing Ace. love the episode though!! a proper dilemma too!
I loved that episode. Brilliant. A bit of a non-reaction to the apparent death of the last human female alive in the universe at the end there, but it was amusing nonetheless. Irene E was adorable, no?
Oh my god, the “Don’t touch the buttons” gag had me in stitches. Great episode, the model stuff was bloody lovely.
Perfect Cat intro, in fact a brilliant episode for Cat – His CV had me howling… fucking love that the bulkhead flexed when Kryten punched the airlock button… really felt like old School ‘Dwarf! I love that Blue Midget’s booster jet things looked like they’d been scaled up somewhat – it fits more for a spaceborne craft. In fact, every shot with the midget in looks class… I really don’t understand why Doug’s called these GELF’s “BEGGs” though, has he forgotten his own canon? Or is GELF no longer an umbrella term for all the life forms that were engineered on Earth? Just wondering… How did Rimmers light bee penetrate the wall? though the suit colour change was a nice touch. as was the banana on the research paper. That ending was masterful, I don’t care what anybody says – you’re all clearly right…
Meh, wasn’t keen on that one. It was alright. Just…well, not all that funny. The quantum entaglement stuff had potential but was underdeveloped….and ended up being a pale imitation of the luck virus. The Beggs were just rubbish GELFs (pun intended) The less said about Irene E, the better.
Definitely my favourite of the series so far. More later after I’ve let it all sink in! P.S Rimmer went red! He went soft-light red! Oh, fanboy glee!
May need another rewatch, without the ad breaks but very average this week. it’s not up there with Trojan. at this point I’m actually hoping Kochanski does return, I feel a fifth character may be need. I don’t know why but think she could play better off what could be Original Rimmer compared to Series VIII counterpart. Can anyone who watched in HD explained what happened to Starbug? did the BEGGs dismantle it, I would have thought they would have taken it back to Red Dwarf. at this point I could quite happily skip Dear Dave as eagerly awaiting The Beginning and some possible answers.
This is probably the first episode in the series that is consistently excellent for the whole running time. While I adore Trojan the phone plot didn’t sit very well with me. I’m seriously loving series X.
Brilliant episode from start to finish, a slightly rushed, & harsh way to write out officer butt babe at the end though. This is the lady that guested tonight, be nice. https://twitter.com/SydneyStevenso3
Wow. Felt like a poor VII episode. One word. Tired. Another word. Gutted. Trojan already feels like another series compared to this. Next weeks…………. :( *Audience laughter is getting on my cacks. Hey – let’s just laugh at everything!
Irene E was shite. The reveal of the name, and the guest performer in general. She ruined the episode in my opinion. Would’ve much rather had 10 more minutes footage of the monkey.
I will have to rewatch but my early impression of Entangled… it didn’t have any single MASSIVE woofers like the ‘Howard arrives on Trojan’ and ‘Lister Sr/Jr’ scenes provided, but overall I think that’s the most I’ve laughed out loud in any episode of X yet. That was just perfectly Red Dwarf. The model stuff was brilliant, especially the first scene after the break. The CGI planet was streets ahead of most CGI in RD history. Every section was great. I’m completely chuffed with that episode. It could well be my new favourite episode of the series.
Not digging Irene E, and not keen on her demise either. It seemed a little rushed. Although I do love how it was Rimmer’s neglect of H&S that caused it. Felt the Kryten/Cat entanglement could have been used and explained more. The rest of the episode was great though. Gorgeous model shots, and loved the establishing shots of the BEGG’s planet (was that GCI?). Rimmer’s soft light was a nice touch, and I will ignore the fact that his light bee penetrated the wall.
Very enjoyable. Didn’t have as many big laughs as the last 2 episodes but I feel like this was the most consistent episode yet. There were no moments that took me out of the show like the Medi-Bot, Taiwan Tony or Jesus, this just felt like Red Dwarf. On the other hand though it did have another moment were it felt like it was copying from old episodes. When I saw them all sitting with the garbage eating race wanting to make a trade with Kryten translating came right out of series 6. Still very fun, I’m still just getting a a big kick out of watching new Dwarf every week :)
Another cracker. Probably the best overall characterization of the series so far. Should I be the first cunt to ask how Rimmer’s light bee passed through the door? No?
Another good episode. The scene where they landed on the moon looked amazing! It was great to see Starbug sat there on the planet too. And Rimmer changes colour depending on which mode he’s in! That was a brilliant little touch. I didn’t laugh out loud much but i was entertained and there were some great lines throughout. Cat acted all season 1 Cat like again which i really like. I felt the ending was a little bit anticlimactic and they got rid of the scientist lady far too easily. I think that was Kryten’s best performance so far this series whereas Rimmer seemed a bit off and played up his lines too much. I didn’t like the guest star this week, although she didn’t have many lines to work with. The mention of the fact they’ve only passed 2 inhabited moons in 10 years was a nice little line, seems that not much has really happened to the crew in the years we haven’t seen them. Really good episode, nice story that once again benefited from being the only plot line.
Best episode of the series. The only thing that bugs me, if I think too much about it, is the casual way they react to the the death of the possibly the only living human female in the universe. But it was funny.
Brilliant! Just brilliant! Definitely made up for the slight disappointment I felt last week. I would say this episode had the strongest ‘Classic Dwarf’ vibe out of the episodes aired so far. I don’t know about anyone else, but I felt there was quite a lot of stuff to get my head around – some ideas weren’t clear to me on first viewing, but most likely will be in more viewings. I see this as a good thing though, and it didn’t ruin my enjoyment. Also, the model shots just get better and better each week and Blue Midget looks lovely :o)
So much i loved in this episode: i did love the holly music on journey to the planet, finally the interior of the Midget, Rimmer going red for his soft light drive. Funny most of the way through. Cat having great laughs, Kryten doing long explanations (poor rob) A proper suspense dilemma. brilliant episode.. makes me wonder if they have bypassed VIII though.
All aboard the SS Incompetence! Good fun though space certainly seems to be getting more crowded. Ending was a bit flat in the delivery I thought. Bit more flippant than the resigned of-course-that-would-happen reaction I think they were going for. Did the airlock have the German Red Dwarf novel font or am I just being a crazy person? And next week looks like it’s ripping off two Futurama episodes. ;) … Oh, and how could Rimmer walk through the wall – his light bee is solid, right? What d’you mean ‘solid’?
I’ve got a warm fucking Red Dwarf glow after that episode. Trojan had a couple of fantastic lines and was overall very pleasing, Fathers and Suns had what remains THE standout scene of the season so far with the Drunk/Sober Lister exchange, and Lemons was old-school Dwarfy but low on LOLs for me. But THAT was pretty fucking special. My thoughts will consolidate on later watches but the characterisation there (other than Mr Morality Dave ‘Humane’ Lister’s non-reaction to the flushing out and death of the last known living human female from his own universe, but you could argue it made the following exchange funny) was the best it has been since VI. Giggled like a child again right throughout.
Lots to love, but not quite gelling for me. One that’ll grow on repeat viewings I think. But those models and vis fx… Bloody brilliant!
One thing though, I didn’t catch the reason why all the BEGG’s dropped dead? That seemed a bit out of the blue. So what became of Starbug then?
.Next weeks…………. :(*Audience laughter is getting on my cacks. Hey – let’s just laugh at everything! Bloody this. The laughter is really odd in this series. There’s hardly any variation in the level from one gag to another. It’s all a bit bloody loud a bit bloody all the time.
Right. I thought it was bloody good. I had a bit of a wobbly moment when the BEGGs all keeled over before I cottoned on that it was related to Cat and Kryten’s quantum entanglement bollocks. I’m taking this as a sign that either Doug’s writing some fiendishly clever plots – or I’m just incredibly slow witted. I’ll let you make up your own minds. VFX work was pretty good – although the Blue Midget landing seemed a bit off – something to do with the motion of the ship. Loved Rimmer changing to Soft Light red, thought the performances were all great – Kryten seemd particularly on form this week – with very little of the slightly hammy turns of the first couple of shows. All in all, a 100% successful..um..episode.
I suppose I should say what we’ve all been thinking: Starbug’s okay, right? RIGHT?? And just to reiterrate: Red Rimmer! Red! I need to put this coffee down.
PINK RIMMER?! Well, I’m quite conflicted. Pretty sure that was the the best episode of the series so far, but not sure if it’s the funniest. The model shots looks absolutely lovely, and getting out to an alien planet was a treat. But the universe is starting to feel very very busy. Really thought the cast were giving some great performances tonight, but I’m starting to feel like the audience laughter is drowning out some of their better, subtler performances, which is quite a shame. The over enthusiastic audience are giving me the feeling I used to get watching Last of the Summer Wine – dodgy stuff being given big reactions just because of familiarity with the characters. The Irene stuff is really awful though, and I’m not sure how it could be made better. Not a huge amount to do with what was on the page. I’m slightly worried that so far any women they’ve met this series, they’ve killed and seemed to not be bothered by it. It just feels callous, which goes against stuff in the script previously, with Rimmer being a creep and Lister kindly offering her his jacket when she appeared. Also – fucking upside down glasses? They duffed up the opening scenes again, but in a different way this week. The audience didn’t really get the kebab thing at all, and I can’t say I did either. The following bit with Rimmer has another protracted scene where people say a thing, repeat a thing – maybe with a question and then repeat again. Feels like it’s just page wasting. We get it, it was funny, move the fuck on already. I enjoyed the BEGGS, nice concept, but really wasted. I do think there’s a problem with the direction though, everything feels a bit sloppy, from the writing, performances, to the editing. Watching Holoship after and everything is just that bit snappier and I don’t think it’s the cast just being older. I think we’re really lacking in some close ups and handleheld stuff. Why have all these cinema cameras, and the shoot it on legs from 20 feet away? Still, that genuinely felt like proper Dwarf, more so than even Lemons. Next week looks great, and I love the idea for that. Hopefully they haven’t hired Kerry Shale again. Please god, let them not hire Kerry Shale again. Well, I’ve fucked on too much. Sorry.
Music sounds very Dr Who like in parts. Not really feeling that either. I was really looking forward to this episode. Bollocks.
the only thing i can think why Lister didnt show much compassion about the scientist being flushed into space even though she was the only female could be he is only focused and in love with Kochanski.
From the SFX review: http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/10/25/red-dwarf-x-10-4-entangled-review/ ‘This episode was extensively rewritten the week before recording. Originally the chimp would have played a much larger role, but the production team didn’t realise that rules and regulations governing the performer meant that he could only “act” for a limited time before taking a break. Professor E was a very late addition to the script.’ So if Irene E’s demise seems a little rushed, that’ll be why.
Music sounds very Dr Who like in parts. Not really feeling that either. I was really looking forward to this episode. Bollocks. There are exercises you can try to help alleviate these problems. For example, have you tried not being a twat?
Just read the SFX review. It says that the episode had a big eleventh hour rewrite. Originally the chimp was to play a much bigger part…and Irene was a last-minute addition. Did we know about that? *EDIT* ^ Seems Bob Loblaw beat me to it. What a weird coincidence!
Trying desperately to like this series, but I’ve been having a hard time with it ever since Trojan and I’m really getting a series VII vibe right now…but unfortunately, VII had stronger stories. It’s just not working for me. I don’t detest it like VIII and there’s far less to irritate me than BTE, but it’s struggling to leave much of an impression. I don’t want mediocre episodes with the crew having zany, throwaway adventures and it coasting because it’s called Red Dwarf and stars Chris Barrie et al, I want timeless episodes that I’ll watch in twenty years (like I’ve been doing for the last month with series I-VI and remembering why I care about this show so damn much). I’m afraid Entangled doesn’t make the grade. A character who’s wrong all the time; what is this? Mr Men? The button combination scene went on for about 4 times longer than it should have despite the fact that a 6 year could get the joke that the character would always choose the wrong thing. Oh, and then she’s killed off in throwaway fashion. Never mind. Fill out a form. The BEGGs. Well, the less said about them the better. Ditto Lister’s groinal trap. I’d comment on the Entangled nature of Cat and Kryten if there was something to comment on. It seemed shoe-horned in to tie together the flimsy plot, frankly. It served some story points and went precisely nowhere. I really don’t find two actors saying the same lines at the same time particularly funny either, which seems to be a bit of a stumbling point to enjoying this episode. Weirdly, the most interesting part was the Kochanski tease, a character who I’ve really got no interest in seeing ever again. NEXT EPISODE: Remember that vending machine shit from Fathers and Suns? It’s back!
Odd one that. Lots of exposition and I think I missed bits on the first viewing. Felt strangely like a sketch show in places too. Loved the health and safety stuff at the start, particularly the references to the radiation leak. Bizarrely though, I already feel like I’ve forgotten loads about it. Not because it was forgettable, just because it was so densely packed. Gonna take a few viewings before any kind of opinion will form on that one for me I reckon Current rankings based on first impression 1) Fathers And Sons 2) Trojan 3) Lemons 4) Entangled Favourite line – I havent got time to be twatting about with that
Best episode so far (again)! I don’t think it was quite as funny as Trojan or Lemons but it definitely had the best story. The visuals for the moon was simply stunning. Most important of all, all of the main characters were spot on this episode. Every line was delivered perfectly it really felt like them rather than an impression of them. Irene was a bit iffy but I’ll have to watch it again to really make up my mind and the way they killed her off was a bit convenient but at least it linked into earlier I suppose. The one thing I was surprised about was the limited use of the Kryten-Cat coincidences – I wonder if they some of them were cut. But overall a very strong episode very much approaching the quality of the classic era.
A lot to like(the Cat’s C.V has given me the biggest laugh since Trojan) but it feels like there’s a truly great episode buried in there. Some odd directorial choices – the gang trying to dissuade the BEGGS from taking Arnie would have been funnier if we hadn’t seen Rimmer until after Listers explanation, and the BEGGS cause of death wasn’t immediately clear. Mr Wickham’s voice sounded like it was behind a mask (I know that’s because it was, but a dub/mix might have not pulled me out of the scene quite so much) Kryten’s mask seemed to have a strange discolouration around the mouth. I liked it more than the above would make it seem, and I’m glad to have it back it any non-VIII form.
Haha, absolutely excellent! I particularly loved Kryten bumping into Cat in the corridor, it felt very Series 1. Also, I like how straight that old film thing was played, it could have been done really goofily which would have sorta’ ruined it for me. By the way, did anybody think Kryten’s mask looked better today, or was it just me?
This bit from the SFX review is very true: “Read the following brilliant monologue from Kryten as if it were being narrated by the Voice Of The Book from The Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy (preferably Peter Jones). It fits extremely well: “The staff were handpicked for their ability to be mistaken; for their gifts in fallacious analysis and defective reasoning. They were all outstandingly good at being consistently incorrect. There were a lot of referees, TV critics, weathermen, who were then re-educated in the sciences, to develop extraordinary new, erroneous theories, that would combine together to produce works of great genius… The whole idea turned out to be wrong. The man behind the idea was so depressed he attempted suicide. Naturally he failed, and he went on to live into his nineties.””
Just to add to what I said earlier: One negative point I want to bring up is the reuse of old music cues. Maybe it’s just me but I do think they’re doing that a bit too much and the reuse of the Holly Series 1 Introduction music cue felt out of place and I really do think they shouldn’t have used it. I kinda felt this way about the Series I/II fly-by cues reused in VIII, III Re-Mastered and now X – it just feels like a step back to me, the show has grown and moved on, and the reuse of other memorable cues from the early series just doesn’t feel right to me. New versions of old themes are ok to me (I liked what was done in ‘Trojan’) but reusing specific cues that were used in old episodes (such as the ‘Kryten’ cleaning montage) just feels like too much harkening back to the old series. Since we’re lucky enough to have Howard Goodall back, I’d rather hear more new music from him
There are exercises you can try to help alleviate these problems. For example, have you tried not being a twat? Well you obviously haven’t tried those exercises either……
That whole concept was probably my favourite part, I really wish that had been the main story and they’d just come across the ship. But then, they’ve done that a lot over the years, so maybe not.
I liked the episode. Thought that Irene E was extremely irritating but otherwise good although the very quick Beggs death was all too swift for my liking. It was a much more consistent episode and some of the gags were good. I liked the fact that they dangled a sex invitation in front of Rimmers face which was ultimately snacthed away by an accident of his own doing lol
Maybe it is just me, maybe it i just because he is on air, but the guy who plays Listers wife comes accross to me as a really nice person with a huge streak of smart arse (here im refering to the charming version of a smart arse rather than merely annoying version)
Probably my favourite of the series so far, mainly because I think it had the best balance of great moments for all of the characters. Rimmer had a lot of my favourite jokes from the episode – and the episode also continues series X’s trend of the Cat getting more of the best moments than he has in a very long time. There was an impressive amount crammed into the episode – but particularly the sequence between the BEGGS choking, the following of the coordinate clues, Kryten’s description of the research station, the stasis booth sequence, the evolution stuff, and the introduction of Irene E. That sequence possibly buzzed along too quickly – but even so, there was a more logical progression between those elements than the abrupt way the mirror universe was introduced in Only the Good (which occurred at a similarly late point in that episode). There was something very Hitchhiker’s Guide-ish about Kryten’s explanation of the research into the science of wrongness. I found it reminiscent of Douglas Adams’ descriptions of the history of Bistromathics and the Infinite Improbability Drive. (EDIT: I typed that before Stephen Abootman posted that SFX review quote above, honest…) Not too keen on Irene E’s whole “today is Opposite Day!” thing, and the defusal sequence was a bit too drawn out… but I liked the IRONIC!!! twist on the rules for the last pair of codes.
To correct myself from earlier.. >>I really don’t understand why Doug’s called these GELF’s “BEGGs” though, has he forgotten his own canon? Or is GELF no longer an umbrella term for all the life forms that were engineered on Earth? Just wondering… I’m such a tool – it’s obvious the BEGGs are just yet another flavour of GELF tribe… >>blockquote cite=”How did Rimmers light bee penetrate the wall? Dialogue covered that – Rimmer was switched to ‘Projection mode’ Who am i to quibble about the capabilities of technology from thousand of years into the future?
I really enjoyed that, some great moments. It just felt like ‘classic’ dwarf to me. The one thing about this series is I have found that the ad break has pulled me out of the episode. I think i will enjoy each episode more on dvd.
By the way, did anybody think Kryten’s mask looked better today, or was it just me? We’d noticed this as well, every episode the mask seems to get better. Assuming they were recorded in order, I suspect the makeup team were getting more used to it as they went along, making improvements each time.
I liked the whole scene with the crew staring at the naked Irene – Kryten’s “I hadn’t noticed!”, and Rimmer advising Kryten to be as slow and careful as possible in going to fetch a sheet.
I liked the whole scene with the crew staring at the naked Irene – Kryten’s “I hadn’t noticed!”, and Rimmer advising Kryten to be as slow and careful as possible in going to fetch a sheet. “Men ogle a naked woman” is hardly the most original sitcom situation, but in this case some good jokes came of it!
Am I right in thinking that Irene is (well was) the first proper human the crew have come across? I.e Not from a parallel universe or resurrected from nanobot.
Am I right in thinking that Irene is (well was) the first proper human the crew have come across? I.e Not from a parallel universe or resurrected from nanobot. Does that also include diseased?
Just watched this. Really enjoyed it. There were a few minor problems but this was an episode where these things don’t bother me so much because there is a constant stream of funny things happening. Can I just say how happy I am to have an episode start in a way that’s not poor or passable but actually REALLY fucking funny. My only real problem was how Lister and Rimmer didn’t seem to care about a woman dying but the last line of the episode was brilliant so I’m kinda half over it.
To reply to the Dwarfcast comments; I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a show to be able to match its past successes, or at very least match the quality of the sitcoms I’ve enjoyed in the subsequent years. Unfortunately, I don’t just find the last three episodes mediocre compared to prime Red Dwarf, but mediocre compared to good TV. Trojan is a solid episode, strong on story and funny bits. The others, not so much.
The breif encounter scene inset the TV. we didnt see that on the night we saw black and white pictures. And I think it was chris barrie doing the impressions of breif encounter people in the black and white movie.
Was worried about the Monkey. Cus we didnt know where it was all going on the night. It felt very series 8 watching that recorded. But didnt tonight watching the episode. It looked pretty real as a character and worked fine for me hearing the dialouge back around it. The reveal reminded me of Nightinggales. The Episode Terrence in the Midst. That was the sitcom I previously mentioned on here that resembeled that. Has anyone moaned about light bees yet?
Just loved the “Wrong” Science and the Quantum science. You wait for some good sci fi concepts for ages in red dwarf. and then you get 2 in this episodes.
Felt like a few lines were added as ADR. Bits where you dont see someone on screen saying it, or their lips. Some I dont remember.
I love the kebab opening. That’s just like me. In fact I split salad cream over myself in my rush to start the episode on Dave player.
Ah. Projection mode. Missed that. Didnt care anyway. But i thought some would. Doesnt he change colour on the way through, and not when he does the change back wiggle move at the end though? was that odd?
Love the Beggs. They are a new twist on Gelfs. in answer to the person asking why arent the called Gelfs. These ones eat TVs. Loved that.
I hope to god there is another series to follow this. this series has been great and those sets/model shots look to too good to only be used for one series alone
1) Fathers and Sons 2) Entangled 3) Trojan 4) Lemons Yeah, agree entirely with this. Not that there was anything wrong with Lemons or Trojan, it’s just personal rating preference.
Gutted I couldn’t listen to the Dwarfcast tonight! Could have joined in about half way through but figured it’ll probably make more sense to wait for it to go up tomorrow. Very much looking forward to it. And I’m very much looking forward to the episode being up on iTunes so I can watch those model shots in glorious HD.
Every week, I’ve considered recording my own reaction. I haven’t done so, obviously. As you may have gathered from my comments on the Live ‘cast, that episode did not disappoint at all, I adored it. If I *had* recorded my reaction, I would have some dodgy sound file of me almost choking with laughter. Definitely my favourite of RDX – the first time this series that I’ve immediately Tweeted Doug and the cast after the ep to tell them how much I loved it – that’s been quite restrained of me. For what it’s worth, my sister agrees with me, the best ep of the series so far, everything I hoped it would be. Meanwhile, my brother still thinks Fathers & Suns is the best ep yet. Will be watching a couple more times over the weekend, methinks.
By far the Dwarfiest episode so far, that was just great. It was definitely the most consistently good, and every scene moved the story forward and was well-done. Also, Rimmer switching out of Hard and Soft Light was brilliant. The exterior shots were interesting as well, and this episode definitely has a Series VI feel to it, which is of course a very good thing. Also, the reveal of the monkey, almost taunting those who’ve picked up on the Kochanski Bad Wolf-esque meme this season, was also superb. I only have two things nagging at the back of my mind that aren’t 100% positive: 1) Quantum Entanglement and Wrongness are two awesome ideas both explored well. But was it right to cram them into one episode? Either of those concepts could have carried an episode (a la Quarantine). But it starts off with entanglement and finishes with wrongness and I wonder if Mr. Naylor shouldn’t have just chosen one to stick with. But that’s a minor thing, as both were addressed well, and maybe they could only each carry half an episode anyways. 2) Can we assume that they got Starbug back? But on the whole, yes, this was very good. Especially because there was nothing that didn’t work. Every episode previously was also very good but had a weak link or some sort (Stirmaster in Trojans, Chinese Whispers in Fathers & Suns, the sub-par opening scenes in Lemons). But Entangled had no weak link like that, which instantly makes it better., but then add the fact that the humor is really solid throughout, and it’s safe to say that this episode was great and can hold its own with the first 36 episodes (I definitely liked it more than Emohawk, a similar-feeling story).
Well that was cracking. Best one yet on first impression. Chock full of all the things I want from Dwarf – quality gags and ideas, gripping plot, great character stuff. Top notch performances all round again. Rimmer was the best he’s been all series I felt, both writing and performance wise, almost as if Doug deliberately wrote him so anal and smarmy after comments last week about the character maybe seeming a bit watered down. Big laughs at Kryten not noticing Irene was naked, Cat’s CV, ‘Did it work?’ ‘No’ and Lister not having time “to be twatting about” with Rimmer’s forms.
I think everyones still in ‘Any Red Dwarf is good Red Dwarf’ mode, this episode in relativity with all other Dwarf, was okay at best. Very lackluster and this series in my opinion isn’t feeling very Dwarfy, and I have several reservations with the drive room set. A few giggles from me tonight, but mark my words, no one will like this series in a few months. I reiterate what I said last week, it’s foolish of them to slap Red Dwarf V on straight after X as, certainly in my mind, comparisons are immediately drawn. Any good features I thought were present in the X episode are instantly taken away as I’m swiftly reminded what proper classic Dwarf is. Not this guff.
not sure i agree with the consensus, I didn’t laugh once. Now im not going to go down the ‘it’s shit’ path because it wasn’t. The story was fairly tight. There was an underlying rythym to the gags and the cast were definately hitting thier marks and responding to their cues on a high level. Nothing I can fault on production values either. Direction seemed logical and consistant, set seemed good considering the budget, and effects were professional, especially considering the dramas surrounding that work we’ve heard about over recent months, and the show contained some very interesting sci-fi ideas The only negative i can actually identify is that at times it felt a little rushed, and given what we were told by the podcast guest im going to have to give a free pass even on this as it is clear this particular ep had more than its fair share of bad luck during the filming stages, so we are probably lucky it wasnt far more rushed in the edit and post phases. Actually given a lot of what we’ve heard about the production issues on this series, and we are learning of more and more little glitches and problems every week, it is starting to seem like being little short of a minor miracle GN has been able to air anything at all, let alone a series which has some really impressive high points. so far 1. Lemons 2. Fathers and Suns 3. Trojan 4. Entangled
That was an okay episode but not amazing; still a few too many recycled-feeling gags in here for my liking, like the upside of losing Rimmer and Kryten conversing with the GELFs. And is it me or was the scene where the BEGGs all died just a bit weird? That was not clear at all what was going on. The completely unfussed reaction to the death of the last human woman was weird as well (sidenote: she was fit). I did really like Kryten’s really long explanation of ERRA followed by “Did it work?” “No, it didn’t”. All in all this was like most of X so far – solidly entertaining but each script feels a draft or two away from fully baked. For what it’s worth, preferred this episode to Lemons.
Others are rating episodes, so I’ll follow suit. (subject to change, obviously) 1) Entangled 8.5/10 2) Fathers & Suns 8/10 3) Trojan 7.5/10 4) Lemons 6/10 I can’t actually decide on the ratings, hence the .5s. But that’s certainly the order I’d rank them in.
They say a lot of what we understand to be Shakespeare’s work today is in fact remnants of other people writing down his plays. The actors, in an attempt to make money by selling scripted versions of the plays they featured in, would attempt to remember the story and write it down, and that is where a lot of the texts we read today are derived from. It is highly likely there are many mistakes and plot holes that Shakespeare wouldn’t have intended to be in his plays. That is what X feels like, someone half-assedly remembering the heyday of Dwarf and then trying to re-create it but not quite getting it right, like a strange homage not quite working out with bits missing and unfinished ideas. It kind of reminds you of the original thing but doesn’t quite do it… it more gives you a sense of Deja Vu.
For what it’s worth, these ratings seem a bit crazy. 8 and 9 out of 10 for the likes of Lemons?? If a 10/10 episode is something like Gunmen, Back To Reality etc then giving these new episodes such marks is baffling to me. They’re fine, they’re funny *enough*, but they’re not as funny as those older shows. They’re better than VII or VIII, true. The one scene, for me, which has gotten anywhere near that real classic 10/10 stuff is Lister Snr and Lister Jnr. But that’s one scene, not that episode as a whole.
New versions of old themes are ok to me (I liked what was done in ‘Trojan’) but reusing specific cues that were used in old episodes (such as the ‘Kryten’ cleaning montage) just feels like too much harkening back to the old series. Since we’re lucky enough to have Howard Goodall back, I’d rather hear more new music from him I can’t speak for Howard Goodall, of any of the production team, but when Doug discovered there wasn’t much of a budget (read, no budget) for the music, they really did seem like they were up shit creek. I actually Dropboxed Richard Naylor the cues I’d ripped from the DVDs to look through as an option. That’s how, ‘up shit creek’ they were. I understand that’s why old cues were used. If it’s not covered in the documentaries, i’ll investigate this whole thing a bit further.
I think my current ranking for series X would be: 1. Entangled 2. Trojan = Fathers and Suns 4. Lemons
Doctor Who reuses cues all the time. To the point of annoyance! Yes they sometimes rerecord them or alter them slightly, but a lot of the time they don’t. It’s hardly anything new. Music is expensive, even for shows that have big budgets and an orchestra on standby.
Some of the strongest Dwarf in AGES, particularly the first half. The Irene stuff threw a (small) spanner in the works…though if it was a last-minute rewrite that kind of explains that one (what’s the deal with the ape performer?). As a red-blooded male I must say I was very happy that we didn’t get to see the beautifully cute Sydney Stevenson naked…*sigh* and I’m presuming they weren’t even the actress’s legs, seeing as she, strangely, had no lines at that moment. We just watched another new episode of Red Dwaf that actually felt like an episode of Red Dwarf! Incidentally…
Review. If you didn’t hate me yet, you do now. http://noiselesschatter.com/2012/10/25/review-red-dwarf-x-episode-4-entangled/ Lemons > Fathers and Suns > Entangled > Trojan Or shift the middle ones around. I don’t give a shit.
I’ve got some kind of irrational phobia about people in animal suits. I don’t know what it is, but when that dude came out of the studio and stood in front of the set when they’d stopped recording, I was watching him like a fucking hawk, coz if he started messing with the audience. I would have been outta there!
Brilliant podcast. Yet another great interview. I thought you would announcing Steven as back at Dimension Jump. So Glad thats true. Great to have Seb in there. The insight about episode one and death really helped to hear that in relation to tonights episode. I think the blue midget scene we might have seen that done in the drive room. Cus i remember getting a bit confused as to wether they were on blue midget or not in one scene. The scene of Rimmmer sticking a sign on the airlock door. We didnt see that on the night. That must have been inserted with the filming from the end of the episode done on a different day.
Gutted I couldn’t listen to the Dwarfcast tonight! Could have joined in about half way through but figured it’ll probably make more sense to wait for it to go up tomorrow. Very much looking forward to it. And I’m very much looking forward to the episode being up on iTunes so I can watch those model shots in glorious HD. In case you didnt know Nofro, you can copy the link of the instant cast, and the podcast is instantly listenable again after the live broadcast is over. http://www.spreaker.com/user/4893644/entangled_instant_reaction That’s what I do. As Im not arround at the start.
I’m slightly worried that so far any women they’ve met this series, they’ve killed and seemed to not be bothered by it. It just feels callous, which goes against stuff in the script previously, with Rimmer being a creep and Lister kindly offering her his jacket when she appeared. Erm… that’s not true! Episode 1 – Sim Crawford. A simulant – a machine, not a woman. Shot, trying to kill them. Episode 2 – Pree. A computer, not a woman. Turned itself off. Episode 3 – Erin. A woman. Sells them lemons, is not killed. Episode 4 – Irene. A woman. Kills herself – Pushes the button she’s told not to and ejects herself into space. Also – fucking upside down glasses? Because she does everything wrong.
I thought you would announcing Steven as back at Dimension Jump. So Glad thats true. Sydney Stevenson is attending DJXVII, not Steven Wickham.
Ah. Cheers. Can I claim I got that wrong ironically cus of her character. ;-) Not that im not listening correctly.
Some of the strongest Dwarf in AGES, particularly the first half. The Irene stuff threw a (small) spanner in the works…though if it was a last-minute rewrite that kind of explains that one (what’s the deal with the ape performer?). As a red-blooded male I must say I was very happy that we didn’t get to see the beautifully cute Sydney Stevenson naked…*sigh* and I’m presuming they weren’t even the actress’s legs, seeing as she, strangely, had no lines at that moment. We just watched another new episode of Red Dwaf that actually felt like an episode of Red Dwarf! Incidentally… Green eyes or Blue?
I think there was a bit more of the beggs scene, in the edit shown to us. I remember Rimmer cowering a lot more in that coat, than what they put in the final edit. Which probably isnt a bad thing to reign it back. But if im not missremembering, I think he reacted a couple of times with a late display of quivering, as if he had slightly missed his cue to act up as feeble.
Loved it, easily the most Dwarfy episode so far in this new series, the jokes are good, the daft science is good and everyone is given something to contribute to this episode. This is easily the strongest episode of series X thus fan and hands down the best Red Dwarf episode post Rob Grant.
When I say ‘they’ve’ I mean the royal they, as in the show. And I didn’t count the lady in Lemons as they were time travelling to earth. But every time they’ve encountered a woman (sim/pree still look like women, are played by women) the show has killed them off. Twice with a callous nature. Just found that a bit odd and not great for the characters, nor the ’90s slob bloke’ stigma the show suffers from. Yeah death has been a part of the sjow – but these instances felt really awkward. I’m slightly worried that so far any women they’ve met this series, they’ve killed and seemed to not be bothered by it. It just feels callous, which goes against stuff in the script previously, with Rimmer being a creep and Lister kindly offering her his jacket when she appeared. Erm… that’s not true! Episode 1 – Sim Crawford. A simulant – a machine, not a woman. Shot, trying to kill them. Episode 2 – Pree. A computer, not a woman. Turned itself off. Episode 3 – Erin. A woman. Sells them lemons, is not killed. Episode 4 – Irene. A woman. Kills herself – Pushes the button she’s told not to and ejects herself into space. Also – fucking upside down glasses? Because she does everything wrong.
This series I keep on waiting for the quality episode. People have said that it was meant to improve from episode 3. Then they said episode 4. Unfortunately this ep just wasn`t funny enough and structurally it was a bit of a mess again. Irene was a really weak character and dealt with badly at the end and the death of the BEGGs was also lame. Chris Barrie unfortunately is nothing like the actor he used to be based on this series. His Rimmer is the biggest disappointment for me.
Not that this has any particular bearing on anything, but I did notice during my second watching that Lister has the front panel of a Chieftec computer case stuck to the front of his space suit, spray painted gold. I did a double take and looked under my desk at mine for conformation. :P
The first half of that was fantastic. The second half wasn’t as good but still enjoyable. Would be really interested in seeing the original script pre-rewrite.
Really enjoyed this episode from start to finish. The opening scenes were the best of the series so far and helped kick of a great episode. I didn’t have as many laughs as last week but still found it very amusing. Couple of things though…..odd that they didn’t mention the crew returning in series 8, I can’t imagine they would have wiped out series 8 from Dwarf history so there must be an explanation coming. Also was confused as to why Starbug wasn’t used as well to get off the planet? I’m guessing they went back for it later :) Like the guest character, thought she was good and played the role well. Cat was again top notch in the episode and Kryten was bang on form too. In fact I think this was a great episode for everyone. This episode has quickly gone to the top of my favourite’s of the season: Entangled Lemons Trojan Father’s & Suns Looking forward to rewatching it later and then next weeks show :D
In case you didnt know Nofro, you can copy the link of the instant cast, and the podcast is instantly listenable again after the live broadcast is over. http://www.spreaker.com/user/4893644/entangled_instant_reaction That’s what I do. As Im not arround at the start. Cheers Jonsmad!
Trojan – 7/10 Fathers and Suns – 3/10 Lemons – 5/10 Entangled – 4/10 Just all over the place in story structure. “And then this happened… and then this happened”. Those ‘ands’ need to be ‘buts’ and ‘therefores’ to prevent the whole thing coming across as a disparate bunch of scenes. It comes as no surprise that the ending was reworked but unfortunately the replacement scenes are a pile of wank and the defusing of the groin exploder is padded. The stuff with crystals is never developed beyond cheap laughs and story contrivance. Unfortunately, I don’t have much hope for Dear Dave. I had worries about the recording but assumed the portions of the epiosde we didn’t see fleshed out this story and made it more Dwarfian. Now I realise, since seeing the synopsis and how Red Dwarf X works, that the missing scenes were an unpromising subplot.
Not watched this a second time yet, but at the moment I’m still fairly convinced it’s my favourite of the series. For the first time I’m looking at criticisms of the episode and I have absolutely no idea where they’re coming from. Sure there are iffy plotting moments, but everything fits together well enough and, for me, the laughs were bigger and more numerous than any episode this series. A real surprise of a episode, this one.
I think my current ranking for series X would be: 1. Entangled 2. Trojan = Fathers and Suns 4. Lemons Same here, although ive loved every episode, Entangled had almost everything i look for in a ‘dwarf’ if they had the cash to make a Starbug cockpit it would have been even better
Just all over the place in story structure. “And then this happened… and then this happened”. Those ‘ands’ need to be ‘buts’ and ‘therefores’ to prevent the whole thing coming across as a disparate bunch of scenes. I do think that is still a huge problem with Doug`s writing and it`s one that Andrew Ellard commented on when BTE was broadcast. In each episode of the series so far there have been clumsy elements to the plotting (this was even more evident in Series VIII) as Doug rushes from idea to idea. The use of coincidence in this episode to move from location to location wasn`t good enough.
What Cappsy said. I know we’ve all got different virws, which is what makes the Dwarf fandom/G&T Communnity interesting, but where last week, I was reading praise for Lemons and wondering why I didn’t like it, this week, I absolutely adore Entangled, and can’t understand people’s poor opinions.
Not watched this a second time yet, but at the moment I’m still fairly convinced it’s my favourite of the series. For the first time I’m looking at criticisms of the episode and I have absolutely no idea where they’re coming from. Sure there are iffy plotting moments, but everything fits together well enough and, for me, the laughs were bigger and more numerous than any episode this series. A real surprise of a episode, this one. See thats the thing, I did not find it funny but I actually cant really figure out why. As I said in my short analysis I personally cant pick out any really big faults with it, the only one I’ve come up with was the ‘slightly rushed’ but thats hardly new for Red Dwarf or a major flaw. Maybe external stresses in my life have effected my experiences, I may well have a different reaction when watching without those stresses. On the other hand I did find the story entertaining purely as a story on its own merits
I agree unfortunately about not finding it funny and looking at some of the comments on other non-Dwarf forums that seems to have been a fairly common problem. I think one problem (mentioned by John Hoare last week) is that many of the jokes seem over-familiar. Not just from Dwarf in this case but also the Two Ronnies… It is all very, very old-fashioned.
For the most part, I quite loved that episode. The start with the kebab was a bit out of place with the rest of the episode. The ending was off too. I think Irene E, the character itself, isn’t too bad, as much as a one-joke character can be. It’s her introduction (as a human) and the pacing of her scenes. It just doesn’t feel right. Since finding out those scenes were rewrites though, I don’t mind it as much, like it was all they could of done with the limited time. Also, not as funny this week, but as others have said the story makes up for it. Beyond that, it was pretty good. Out of the 4, this may be my least favourite. (Doesn’t mean it’s bad, though. Not at all.) Will need to give it the usual thrice-over to get a better idea of it all.
Just all over the place in story structure. “And then this happened… and then this happened”. Those ‘ands’ need to be ‘buts’ and ‘therefores’ to prevent the whole thing coming across as a disparate bunch of scenes. I do think that is still a huge problem with Doug`s writing and it`s one that Andrew Ellard commented on when BTE was broadcast. In each episode of the series so far there have been clumsy elements to the plotting (this was even more evident in Series VIII) as Doug rushes from idea to idea. The use of coincidence in this episode to move from location to location wasn`t good enough. This. It has some good lines and funny concepts, but random bits I don’t quite get. I still don’t get what the TV and program were for (yes, to give a clue a la vending machine “stasis” but it wasn’t integrated well). And “Irene E” was a bit overexplained. (On the bright side, if I ever want to get blasted, I know I can play the drinking game with this ep and “Kochanski” – if she does show up in Ep 6 I’ll be like “whaaaat … this is an utter unforeseeable development!” LOL)
I think there was a bit more of the beggs scene, in the edit shown to us. I remember Rimmer cowering a lot more in that coat, than what they put in the final edit. Which probably isnt a bad thing to reign it back. But if im not missremembering, I think he reacted a couple of times with a late display of quivering, as if he had slightly missed his cue to act up as feeble. Yes I think Rimmer breaks character here, to insult the BEGGs or something. He starts gesturing and speaking eloquently, and then realises, but It’s too close to the Cat breaking character in the GELF costume with the simulant in Beyond A Joke. I don’t mind Chris’ more broader performances this series but that was a little much for me in that scene, i’m glad they hacked it back in the edit.
I watched this late and didn’t see the initial reaction, and I was expecting to come on here and see everyone saying this was obviously the weakest of the series to date, as that seemed blatently true to me. So the fact that people are saying it’s their favourite episode so far has completely thrown me. It’s not actually bad, it’s in keeping with the general even quality of series X, but it didn’t match up to the others for me. A lot of the gags seemed weak, and the show lurched from one thing to another without adequate explanations. The obvious example of that is when the BEGs suddenly start choking for no reason (either before or after – what were they even eating?) Plus Lister, who up to that point had been talking only about winning Starbug and Rimmer back, suddenly starts panicking about the groin bomb. Whilst it’s logical he’d start worrying about that, the instant jarring shift looks odd, as if lines had been cut out of the middle of that scene (there were other places that it looked like stuff had been cut, which is why the show didn’t flow for me). And the ‘dramatic’ climax was very weak, stretching out punching in a five symbol code into a supposedly epic edge-of-the-seat drama didn’t work at all. Plus it was way too obvious how they were going to write out Irene. That said, Kryten’s explanation of the ‘wrongness’ station was the highlight of the epsiode, and there were some decent moments. As I said, not bad, just not measuring up to the others. 5.5 out of 10. So far: 1. Lemons (7.5), 2. Fathers and Suns (7), 3. Trojan (6), 4. Entangled (5.5)
My brother’s just said it’s *his* least favourite, too. I’ve watched it again this morning, and still love it. Red Dwarf fandom. Don’t you just love it?
That Steven Wickham’s a real character isn’t he? Though a real shame there were no BELFILF’s in this episode.
People like a little bit of nostalgia, so the show remembers the fans of old, Doug adds nostalgia.. people moan about it?! If he didnt at all (thus making the series completely fresh and new) people would moan there was no nods to the old series! Doug must get headaches.. Im loving this new series! i hope Doug doesnt pull the plug due to all the negativity! :( Entangled is deffo my fave of the series so far!! im most hyped for ‘The Beginning’ though!
I watched this late and didn’t see the initial reaction, and I was expecting to come on here and see everyone saying this was obviously the weakest of the series to date, as that seemed blatently true to me. So the fact that people are saying it’s their favourite episode so far has completely thrown me. It’s not actually bad, it’s in keeping with the general even quality of series X, but it didn’t match up to the others for me. A lot of the gags seemed weak, and the show lurched from one thing to another without adequate explanations. The obvious example of that is when the BEGs suddenly start choking for no reason (either before or after – what were they even eating?) Plus Lister, who up to that point had been talking only about winning Starbug and Rimmer back, suddenly starts panicking about the groin bomb. Whilst it’s logical he’d start worrying about that, the instant jarring shift looks odd, as if lines had been cut out of the middle of that scene (there were other places that it looked like stuff had been cut, which is why the show didn’t flow for me). And the ‘dramatic’ climax was very weak, stretching out punching in a five symbol code into a supposedly epic edge-of-the-seat drama didn’t work at all. Plus it was way too obvious how they were going to write out Irene. That said, Kryten’s explanation of the ‘wrongness’ station was the highlight of the epsiode, and there were some decent moments. As I said, not bad, just not measuring up to the others. 5.5 out of 10. So far: 1. Lemons (7.5), 2. Fathers and Suns (7), 3. Trojan (6), 4. Entangled (5.5) Pretty much agree with you most points there.
The opening scene was one I didn’t like the look of when I saw it in trailers but the execution of it was great, imo. Using the beer to put out the fire was predictable but then the idea that putting MORE food on the computer might stop it from fucking up, and the fact it actually had the desired effect, I found to be hilarious. Plus, the sound effects really added to the comedy. Nicely done. And yes it’s been a bizarre thing coming here every week and seeing how wildly people’s opinions differ on episodes. Especially since people aren’t being continuously positive or negative about the series but loving one episode and then not really liking the next and then liking the one after that etc. I personally have enjoyed all the episodes but am struggling to rate them (even against each other) for so many reasons: – The fact they all feel quite different from each other (to me). – The fact that they feel quite different to old Dwarf, despite quite a few flashes of Dwarfiness, yet I still like them. – The fact that I-VI are much more than just TV episodes I like but episodes I’ve watched far more than any TV program ever and enjoy so much now that I probably give them too much credit, ignoring any problems I may have initially had with them. It feels unfair to compare the new episodes that I’ve only seen a handful of times to them. – The fact that, because I so want this series to be great, every little thing that doesn’t quite work for me feels like a big problem, when it probably wouldn’t even bother a casual viewer. There are always things that work and don’t work for me in comedy programmes but I’d usually just not laugh and not even think about it with most shows. Rewatches have definitely pointed out how minor some of the problems, which felt major on my first watch, actually were. – Most importantly, the fact that there are a load of episodes in I-VI that didn’t really work for me when I first saw them and even after several re-watches they still didn’t really work for me, yet now I really enjoy them. In fact the episodes which I found the most laugh out loud on first watch are the ones I probably got tired of the quickest (in reference to the old series).
‘Lemons’ and ‘Entangled’ are easily the most successfully-executed episodes since VI. No, they’re not perfect, but only 4 or 5 (?) past episodes actually are. X is definitely the VIII that never was.
All very good points, NoFro. I think they probably sum up the way a lot of fans feel about the experience of watching X.
NoFro is wise :) i understand completely Indeed. We know Series 1-VI so well, and because I suspect that even those amongst us who hate series VII and VIII with a fiery passion quite enjoyed them at the time, any slight sense of non-perfection puts us off. I enjoyed series VII and VIII at the time. But I was 18 years old, and at the time, it seemed *years* since RDVI had been on. What am I saying? Fucked if I know. Oh yes. We may be afraid to love it in case we realise later on that it really isn’t that good. And some may be hating it because they anticipate not liking it in years to come. Or something. Personally, I loved Entangled because it felt so Dwarfy. A definite series VI feel, in my opinion. But I also agree with NoFro that they’ve all been different. I’m wondering if maybe I *shouldn’t* watch every episode a few times over the weekend, and just wait a few weeks, and watch the full series when it’s released next month? Oh, I’m gibbering. I’ll shut up and go away for a bit.
Whats this about animal working laws, the chimp was not real! Most Dwarfy yet and amazing looking. The death of Irene was best bit, I saw it coming, last 2 mins-airlock, it was even funnyer for it.
This was the first episode I didn’t laugh out loud at. Maybe because the best bits were in the trailers. Also I was disappointed that it turned out that we weren’t going to revisit Lister’s gelf bride as the publicity photo suggested. In the end I was a bit baffled by it all really. I’ll look forward to rewatching this one.
My rule has been that I can watch the newest episode as much as I want but as soon as the next one is out I have to stop watching it until the Blu Ray arrives on my doorstep. I think I watched Trojan (the episode I’ve watched the most, partly because I wasn’t very busy at the time) once a day, every day that first week but as soon as Fathers & Suns aired I stopped watching it. As a result, even though I’ve watched it a lot, it should feel relatively fresh when I sit down to watch it on Blu Ray. Looking forward to watching them all back to back. Maybe I’ll find it easier to rate them against each other then.
Entangled was great. Really big improvement over Lemons to me – – interesting plot ideas, some well thought out and funny scenes, and although nods to previous episodes (Quarantine/Emohawk/Pete – being the more obvious ones) were once again evident, this time they did not spoil my enjoyment on the whole. The episode seemed to have a lot going on that was essential to the plot rather than just there for a set up/joke and although perhaps I could have wished for this to be two episodes – one about Enganglement and the other about ERRA, they did work together well. However, has series 8 been disregarded? DId all the resurrected crew die out and if Kochanski is still around, surely Lister isn’t the last human being alive? I wonder if this will be tackled in the beginning but we shall see…
> I suspect that even those amongst us who hate series VII and VIII with a fiery passion quite enjoyed them at the time, I may be in the minority but not me. Didn’t like much of VII, hated all of VIII on first viewing. My opinion hasn’t budged a smegging inch. I’m a stubborn arsehole like that but I don’t think it’s served me particularly badly so far as mainstream consensus seems to tally on those series. I can’t really see myself re-evaluating Series X either. Red Dwarf, first and foremost, is a sitcom so it should make me laugh first time. It’s unlikely that I’m going to find it funnier on subsequent viewings because I already know the jokes. As for the age thing. I saw 35 of the 36 episodes when I was 13/14. Maybe I wasn’t as critical of the show as I could be at that age, but I was savvy enough to spot a mis-step when the show took one. I recall my reaction to the SHIT ending of Emohawk being a “Huh? Is that it?.” I’ve never given the show a free pass just because it’s Red Dwarf. It has to win me over each and every episode (by making me laugh and surprising me) and remind me why I love it so much. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request for sitcom. >We may be afraid to love it in case we realise later on that it really isn’t that good. By all means, love it if you can. I wish I could love it too. I can see why there’s positivity over this series as it’s doing a lot of thing right. But I still think it has big problems, particularly in the structure of the episodes and the strength of the gags.
> By all means, love it if you can. I wish I could love it too. I can see why there’s positivity over this series as it’s doing a lot of thing right. But I still think it has big problems, particularly in the structure of the episodes and the strength of the gags. This.
>By all means, love it if you can. I wish I could love it too. I can see why there’s positivity over this series as it’s doing a lot of thing right. But I still think it has big problems, particularly in the structure of the episodes and the strength of the gags. Agreed. Though I feel so far this is better than VII and VIII, it’s not quite the return to form I had hoped for. *19 years of hurt, never stopped me dreaming…….
New versions of old themes are ok to me (I liked what was done in ‘Trojan’) but reusing specific cues that were used in old episodes (such as the ‘Kryten’ cleaning montage) just feels like too much harkening back to the old series. Since we’re lucky enough to have Howard Goodall back, I’d rather hear more new music from him I can’t speak for Howard Goodall, of any of the production team, but when Doug discovered there wasn’t much of a budget (read, no budget) for the music, they really did seem like they were up shit creek. I actually Dropboxed Richard Naylor the cues I’d ripped from the DVDs to look through as an option. That’s how, ‘up shit creek’ they were. I understand that’s why old cues were used. If it’s not covered in the documentaries, i’ll investigate this whole thing a bit further. I do recall hearing/reading something about budget problems, a while back. I just didn’t realise it was that bad. I understand if that’s the reason, and if it can’t be helped, it can’t be helped. It’s just at first, I couldn’t help but feel that the amount of old music cues reused so far seemed like this series was relying too much on nostalgia and preventing RDX from being it’s own new thing – I know this must sound strange, considering the scripts have a IV – VI vibe to them anyway, and I’m probably not making myself clear. But I guess too much of harkening back to past moments could be a dangerous thing, is what I’m trying to say…. I think that’s what I’m saying. (Hope that makes some sense) But as I said, if the reuse of old music cues was done as a necessity then fair enough.
Hey wait a minute. Never mind the loss of rimmer, starbug, the groinal bomb threat, quantum crystal effects, kochanski, apes, sexy new companions, and accidental death. We are losing site the real problem. That dam Space weevil is still on the loose!!!!!
Hey wait a minute. Never mind the loss of rimmer, starbug, the groinal bomb threat, quantum crystal effects, kochanski, apes, sexy new companions, and accidental death. We are losing site the real problem. That dam Space weevil is still on the loose!!!!! That was a brilliant comment! Maybe he is with Archie!
Indeed. We know Series 1-VI so well, and because I suspect that even those amongst us who hate series VII and VIII with a fiery passion quite enjoyed them at the time, Im not ashamed to admit I still enjoy them, Blue Midget dance, Kill Crazy and Baxter inclusive, to be honest I still do not understand the hostility to the blue midget dance. For the budget i think it is a very good FX sequence. Yes it cheesy, yes it is very corny, and that is exactly what I like about it :-)
One thing that I like about the end of this episode is that when Irene gets sucked out of the airlock, Rimmer’s facial expression reads more like “Well I’m not going to get laid now” than “A human life was just lost”.
Penis & Weevil. There’s the Spin off series. ‘Weevil Knievel’. There’s another. Stunt weevil. Fuck Archie.
The only copy of the Dear Dave teaser I can find online is so horrifically low quality I can’t even make out the dialogue. If your only method of getting the video is RECORDING THE TV WITH YOUR GODDAMN CELL PHONE CAMERA, I don’t think you should even bother.
Indeed I couldn’t make out much of anything from that trailer Dear Dave on youtube…..I guess that will give us non UK folks a bigger surprise but it’s still unfortunate.
The preview for Entangled was pretty lacklustre and it turned out to be my fave of the series so far, so I won’t hold the trailer for Dear Dave against it. It does come across as the least interesting episode from the synopsis/trailer etc but time will tell, I guess.
Penis & Weevil. There’s the Spin off series. ‘Weevil Knievel’. There’s another. Stunt weevil. Fuck Archie. Weren’t there Weevils in Torchwood?
I enjoyed Irene a lot more on 2nd viewing, though ‘Irene-E’ will never, ever be a good conclusion to the episode! I’m guessing the original ending would have had the ape pointing at the symbols? ‘Entangled’ is the funniest, best-performed episode in the series so far, with some cracking Kryten dialogue that I sort of missed first time around. While I think Bobby has come across a little nervous in front of the audience at times, he can still pull it out of the bag and easily make you forget about the mask’s semi-dodgyness. Danny…’Entangled’ is up there with the best he’s EVER been. He’s smashing this series like nobody’s business.
Chris Barrie unfortunately is nothing like the actor he used to be based on this series. His Rimmer is the biggest disappointment for me. Seems harsh but I kinda agree. Where’s the character intensity/lightening fast reactions of Rimmer in the old days? I used to think the casting was a bit odd – a good looking guy with obvious authority and self possession playing a character filled with neuroses. Now it sometimes feels as though Chris is being carried by the others, or that his heart isn’t really in it. I’m sorry, I still adore you Chris :-(
I thought it had lots of nice ideas, but that it was badly underwritten, which made many of the jokes fall flat for me. Because the story wasn’t flowing that well for me, I was also really bloody annoyed at the counter on Lister’s belt being at ZERO for most of the episode, and that not really being used properly as a plot device; the countdown seemed an afterthought and was free of any real peril, which was such a waste. I’m bemused at some people not getting that Rimmer changed from hard to soft light to walk through the wall; that was one of the few aspects of the episode which was well handled. I was also uncomfortable with the way that the female character became naked, as the cast seemed to be leering at a mute woman, which was really odd. If she’d been able to react in some way, it would have felt better for me. Her performance afterwards was fine, but felt unnecessary; in fact, I’m still trying to see the point of her, although I suppose she was a nice device for the safety procedures storyline, which, along with the other plotlines, were underwritten. Ngh. Lemons had such a strong central story, so it was a shame to see X fall back into what seems like a writers’ room brainstorm, because none of the ideas are terrible; there’s just no attempt to give them the treatment that they deserve.
. Danny…’Entangled’ is up there with the best he’s EVER been. He’s smashing this series like nobody’s business. Totally agree! i hope now that Cat is getting a lot of good stuff again maybe XI could finally have a Cat episode! maybe a version of Identity Within perhaps
I was also uncomfortable with the way that the female character became naked, as the cast seemed to be leering at a mute woman, which was really odd. If she’d been able to react in some way, it would have felt better for me. Her performance afterwards was fine, but felt unnecessary; in fact, I’m still trying to see the point of her, although I suppose she was a nice device for the safety procedures storyline, which, along with the other plotlines, were underwritten. I don’t know if you read elsewhere but when the leg scene was filmed the actress wasn’t available, I don’t think she was even cast as I believe the character was originally supposed to remain a monkey for the rest of the episode, hence it just being a leg shot and there being no reaction from her as they’re not Sydney Stevenson’s legs. I don’t think they had fully planned what the character was going to do either as the end was extensively rewritten after Peter Elliott couldn’t continue filming for some reason or other. Admittedly they could have refilmed parts of that scene but it goes some way to explaining why we didn’t see Irene E until the scene after she had transformed and why the character seemed underdeveloped, as the character was a result of a last minute rewrite. I imagine they didn’t have the time to sort some of these problems out to a desirable extent. FWIW I found the lack of reaction in the transformation scene wasn’t too distracting. In many sci fi shows where people transform back from being something else or teleport into somewhere new and mysterious they stand there confused and slow to react. I liked that Lister went to give her his jacket. In series VIII he would’ve been there gawping as well (as we all know). Nice touch.
Ah, I think the post above probably proves my point, then (thanks for the explanation). It’s worth pointing out that series 1-VI often had last-minute rewrites, but that those rewrites didn’t result in the mess that Entangled was. It doesn’t really explain why they couldn’t cut to a reaction shot of her once they had her in the studio, either. The episode felt half-finished because it was…half-finished. Not really on, IMO.
Seems a tad unfair to say it’s “not really on.” It sounds as if they had a last minute production problem and had to resolve it. Whether the resolution was satisfactory is one thing but it’s been made pretty clear that production on Dwarf is manic at the best of times, so when something goes wrong it must be pretty hard to remedy. Yes I-VI had some miraculous last minute rewrites but this was a different situation. Maybe this is part of the case for Doug needing a writing partner to help develop ideas in these situations. I imagine it being incredibly hard to write good comedy at the best of times and it seems like a genre in which having a partner would be most beneficial, but trying to write good comedy at the last minute or with very little time must be incredibly hard when you’re on your plod.
> Now it sometimes feels as though Chris is being carried by the others, or that his heart isn’t really in it. I disagree. In no way is he being ‘carried’; he’s been as ‘on’ as the rest of the cast this series. I’m not sure why you’re not seeing what, I feel, is his real enthusiasm for playing Rimmer coming across in a big way. The only difference is that Chris is in his 50s now and that Rimmer has mellowed, to a degree, from the early series’. Some people think he should be exactly how he was in series’ 1 & 2 forever. That would have gotten rather boring by this stage…
Ngh. Lemons had such a strong central story, so it was a shame to see X fall back into what seems like a writers’ room brainstorm, because none of the ideas are terrible; there’s just no attempt to give them the treatment that they deserve. Indeed. The strange thing is that even before the late re-write the show would still have had 4 themes:- health and safety, coincidences, BEGGs/the bomb, wrongness. I don`t think any episode from the first 6 series tried to cram in anything like that many concepts.
> Now it sometimes feels as though Chris is being carried by the others, or that his heart isn’t really in it. I disagree. In no way is he being ‘carried’; he’s been as ‘on’ as the rest of the cast this series. I’m not sure why you’re not seeing what, I feel, is his real enthusiasm for playing Rimmer coming across in a big way. The only difference is that Chris is in his 50s now and that Rimmer has mellowed, to a degree, from the early series’. Some people think he should be exactly how he was in series’ 1 & 2 forever. That would have gotten rather boring by this stage… Thank you. Not to mention, it’s not the same *writers* as 20 years ago; half of them aren’t there anymore. Either one of them put fully in charge is going to make a difference in the handling of all characters. (Would’ve been interesting to see what Rob alone would have done with them, as well – not saying this as complaining, just as “wonder what Red Dwarf looks like now in a parallel universe.”)
I agree that Chris isn`t being carried and the writing obviously affects his performance a great deal. Since Series VII Rimmer hasn`t really been a figure of animosity in the way he was before and the show has suffered for it. Plus Chris`s weakest moments in this series imo have been the Shakespeare scene and the third technician of my dreams line where the writing didn`t do him any favours. I do feel though that his performance lacks the intensity of old.
>Seems a tad unfair to say it’s “not really on.” It sounds as if they had a last minute production problem and had to resolve it. I think it’s pretty fair for her to say it feels like it’s not really on, if she feels like it’s not really on. The production issues are indeed unfortunate but I don’t think quality gets a free pass. If we had to account for misfortune in the process, Ed Wood’s films would have to rank among cinema’s finest, and I don’t think you’d find many people making that kind of argument. They scrambled to resolve a problem and that’s admirable, but it doesn’t mean we have to enjoy the solution. If she didn’t, she didn’t…and there’s nothing unfair about that. >the writing obviously affects his performance a great deal. Since Series VII Rimmer hasn`t really been a figure of animosity in the way he was before and the show has suffered for it. Plus Chris`s weakest moments in this series imo have been the Shakespeare scene and the third technician of my dreams line where the writing didn`t do him any favours. Agreed, I think what we’re seeing is just evidence that Chris isn’t as good at salvaging lesser material. When he’s got the writing behind him he’s incredible, but once that falters he gets a bit lost. Unlike Danny, for instance, who can sell just about any line, regardless of quality.
Unlike Danny, for instance, who can sell just about any line, regardless of quality. To be fair, too, most of the Cat’s lines are meant to be comic relief or a satirical observation, so his one-liners serve him well (and Danny is master at their delivery). And he gets a lot of them for the relatively little time he has onscreen; always has. (Who can forget “I’d prefer chicken”? ROFL)
> I think it’s pretty fair for her to say it feels like it’s not really on, if she feels like it’s not really on. The production issues are indeed unfortunate but I don’t think quality gets a free pass. If we had to account for misfortune in the process, Ed Wood’s films would have to rank among cinema’s finest, and I don’t think you’d find many people making that kind of argument. Sorry if I was unclear. I don’t think Tanya should enjoy or be forgiving to certain parts of the episode because of the production situation. What happens behind the scenes shouldn’t influence our opinions on an episode. The episode is what it is at the end of the day. However, the way I read this: > The episode felt half-finished because it was…half-finished. Not really on, IMO. Made it sound like she was disappointed with the crew for delivering an episode that wasn’t as fully developed as it could have been, with particular reference to the bits which were last minute rewrites, when it seems that the situation was pretty much unavoidable. It wasn’t really the crew’s fault so I feel we can’t really have a go at them for it. It’s like giving someone 20 minutes to do a 1 hour job. You don’t have to be happy with the results but you can’t really blame them for not doing the job to your satisfaction. Of course I could have totally misinterpreted what Tanya meant and she did clarify that it was her opinion so she’s free to keep hers and I’ll stick to mine :)
> The only difference is that Chris is in his 50s now and that Rimmer has mellowed, to a degree, from the early series’. Some people think he should be exactly how he was in series’ 1 & 2 forever. That would have gotten rather boring by this stage… Hear, Here!, I consider myself in the camp that thinks its a good thing the charachters are showing some signs of starting to actually grow up. EG Men Behaving Badly was fine when they were in the mid 20’s range, the self same gags a few years later often had me me wanting to give the male charachters a right cross to the jaw rather than laugh or feel sympathetic to their situation. Despite being quite pro 7 and 8 one of the things, I will concede, I found a little off is that sometimes they did come across as quite childish rather than funny and I occassionaly found myself laughing *at* them rather than *with* them if ppl take my meaning
Trojan – 7/10 Fathers and Suns – 7/10 Lemons – 7.5/10 Entangled – 8/10 This series has been getting better and better for me. I’m expecting Dear Dave to maybe be a 7 and The Beginning to be an 8/9.
This will most likely change, so I probably shouldn’t be doing this… but, what the hell: Trojan – 8/10 Fathers & Suns – 8/10 Lemons – 4/10 Entangled – 7.5/10
> Now it sometimes feels as though Chris is being carried by the others, or that his heart isn’t really in it.I disagree. In no way is he being ‘carried’; he’s been as ‘on’ as the rest of the cast this series. I’m not sure why you’re not seeing what, I feel, is his real enthusiasm for playing Rimmer coming across in a big way. The only difference is that Chris is in his 50s now and that Rimmer has mellowed, to a degree, from the early series’. Some people think he should be exactly how he was in series’ 1 & 2 forever. That would have gotten rather boring by this stage… Quite pleased no-one has called me a ‘c*nt’….yet! Yeah, I think you’ve hit it on the head with Chris/Rimmer having matured and mellowed. I don’t have a problem with that and I like that the dynamic with Lister has become more chilled, as relationships do IRL. And as someone else said, often the writing hasn’t helped Chris. Only thing I’d like to add is watch his reactions. In F&S the Cat says something about “being hotter than me in a pair of Speedos” – surely there would’ve been a double take/derisive look or some kind of reaction from the Rimmer of old? Similarly Kryten’s exposition on the Rejuv Shower in Lemons. Watching previous series, he seems much more alert and responsive, but I guess that’s age for you (speaking as someone who’s now the wrong side of 30)
> Now it sometimes feels as though Chris is being carried by the others, or that his heart isn’t really in it.I disagree. In no way is he being ‘carried’; he’s been as ‘on’ as the rest of the cast this series. I’m not sure why you’re not seeing what, I feel, is his real enthusiasm for playing Rimmer coming across in a big way. The only difference is that Chris is in his 50s now and that Rimmer has mellowed, to a degree, from the early series’. Some people think he should be exactly how he was in series’ 1 & 2 forever. That would have gotten rather boring by this stage… Quite pleased no-one has called me a ‘c*nt’….yet! DICK :)
Just went on the Playstation Store for the first time in a while and had to update it. It has a much better layout now, is much less effort to use and seems to actually work. Anyway I was looking about and went into the TV section to find that Red Dwarf is the currently the “featured” TV show which means when you first go into the TV section you get the lovely big RDX logo and promo/poster/dvd/blu ray cast shot whilst the background in the section is that weird asteroid belty, red dwarfy, photoshoppy thing. I didn’t even know you could get TV shows directly through there, especially stuff that is up to date. Anyway it just made me happy to see that.
So light bee is mentioned in Trojan. Then in entangled Soft light and hard light projection is mentioned. Chris both Wiggles, and changes colour to walk through the door, with Kryten saying something about doing the change with the remote he’s holding, then rimmer says in dialouge he’s changed back to hard light, opens the door and walks back in blue again, but still wiggles afterwards. So is the change of colour the change from soft to hard. As previously seen in series 6. But the wiggle is that the change from light bee to projection, and he returns to the same spot and rechanges back to a bee. Ermm not a bee like buzz buzz honey with yellow and black stripes covering eddie izzard. I just mean is that how the two things work. It’s sort of all there. I think.
But the wiggle is that the change from light bee to projection That actually makes sense. It annoyed me that he wiggled back to hardlight yet he was already blue, but it makes sense that he changed back from projection.
Just went on the Playstation Store for the first time in a while […] Red Dwarf is the currently the “featured” TV show which means when you first go into the TV section you get the lovely big RDX logo and promo/poster/dvd/blu ray cast shot Ah yes, my brother sent me a photo of that a few days ago. Nice to see RD promotion popping up everywhere.
> I guess that’s age for you (speaking as someone who’s now the wrong side of 30) Speaking as someone who’s got a mere 5 days left on the ‘right’ side, I’m hoping I’ll still be as deftly alert and, er, responsive in 6 days’ time…*prays*
Thoughts: Around six minutes in, the airlock door starts to move a bit too soon as Lister pushes the button. A nod to series I? If space weevils are still as big as they were in series VII, Cat’s gonna need something bigger than that slim paperback to kill one. The opening kebab gag is 1000 times better with the alarm klaxon. Everyone here is saying the universe is too populated and in this episode Kryten even comments on it! Now I suspect that you guys have been priming us for an upcoming explanation…
So light bee is mentioned in Trojan. Then in entangled Soft light and hard light projection is mentioned. Chris both Wiggles, and changes colour to walk through the door, with Kryten saying something about doing the change with the remote he’s holding, then rimmer says in dialouge he’s changed back to hard light, opens the door and walks back in blue again, but still wiggles afterwards. So is the change of colour the change from soft to hard. As previously seen in series 6. But the wiggle is that the change from light bee to projection, and he returns to the same spot and rechanges back to a bee. Ermm not a bee like buzz buzz honey with yellow and black stripes covering eddie izzard. I just mean is that how the two things work. It’s sort of all there. I think. Surely whatever type of light it is, the light bee is still a physical thing buzzing round in the middle of Rimmer? A solid, physical object which should not be able to pass through the door. The only get out is if the light bee itself is somehow *made* of light and so changes from hard to soft depending on Rimmer’s projection setting at the time? But then that wouldn’t explain how Lister managed to eat the light bee in Meltdown. Basically it’s a cock up.
So light bee is mentioned in Trojan. Then in entangled Soft light and hard light projection is mentioned. Chris both Wiggles, and changes colour to walk through the door, with Kryten saying something about doing the change with the remote he’s holding, then rimmer says in dialouge he’s changed back to hard light, opens the door and walks back in blue again, but still wiggles afterwards. So is the change of colour the change from soft to hard. As previously seen in series 6. But the wiggle is that the change from light bee to projection, and he returns to the same spot and rechanges back to a bee. Ermm not a bee like buzz buzz honey with yellow and black stripes covering eddie izzard. I just mean is that how the two things work. It’s sort of all there. I think. Surely whatever type of light it is, the light bee is still a physical thing buzzing round in the middle of Rimmer? A solid, physical object which should not be able to pass through the door. The only get out is if the light bee itself is somehow *made* of light and so changes from hard to soft depending on Rimmer’s projection setting at the time? But then that wouldn’t explain how Lister managed to eat the light bee in Meltdown. Basically it’s a cock up. Yeah, but in the proud tradition of sci-if, nobody’s going to admit if it IS one for another 15 years. ;-) Another thing that raises eyebrows is Doug makes the bee’s damage a big deal in The Last Human for the ending. Unless the explanation of this version of Rimmer in The Beginning includes an all new light bee with different technology. Maybe? Personally, I think they could’ve created a gap under the door or near the hinge the bee could pass through OR have them be able to open it only enough that the bee could slip through. But maybe like a lot of morsels here and there, it’ll be tied up in Episode 6.
No mention yet of Lister cutting Cat’s ponytail off? Am I the only one who thought that Cat in all his vanity may have been just a little more pissed off with Lister doing something as extreme as that?
Every time I watch this episode I mean to check the continuity on that. But then something makes me laugh and I forget. Does it stay cut for the rest of the episode?
The light bee should have popped out of Rimmer the moment he walked through the door. As it is in projection mode there’s no reason the bee has to be inside him. I expect.
I’m so incredibly sick of hearing about Rimmer’s light bee. People might as well debate why he isn’t in a fucking hologram projection cage.
No mention yet of Lister cutting Cat’s ponytail off? Am I the only one who thought that Cat in all his vanity may have been just a little more pissed off with Lister doing something as extreme as that? No, I was hoping there would be hell to pay as well. —- Thinking about it, I might have preferred it if Dr. E. had been a chimp anyway as part of some thousand monkeys typing style experiment.
I presumed the count down being at 0 was due to fact it was made at E R R A. Or mabey that’s a convenient get out? Either way I liked the episode in fact they have all been ok except for fathers and suns which was tedious.
Actually Phil I like that idea, or could of had it so it explodes on 0 instead of 2, but yeah i was on similar lines of thought
I’m so incredibly sick of hearing about Rimmer’s light bee. People might as well debate why he isn’t in a fucking hologram projection cage. No because he only needed that when he was on a planet, in Kryten he was fine cus he was on a ship capable to hologramme projection. :-p
So light bee is mentioned in Trojan. Then in entangled Soft light and hard light projection is mentioned. Chris both Wiggles, and changes colour to walk through the door, with Kryten saying something about doing the change with the remote he’s holding, then rimmer says in dialouge he’s changed back to hard light, opens the door and walks back in blue again, but still wiggles afterwards. So is the change of colour the change from soft to hard. As previously seen in series 6. But the wiggle is that the change from light bee to projection, and he returns to the same spot and rechanges back to a bee. Ermm not a bee like buzz buzz honey with yellow and black stripes covering eddie izzard. I just mean is that how the two things work. It’s sort of all there. I think. Surely whatever type of light it is, the light bee is still a physical thing buzzing round in the middle of Rimmer? A solid, physical object which should not be able to pass through the door. The only get out is if the light bee itself is somehow *made* of light and so changes from hard to soft depending on Rimmer’s projection setting at the time? But then that wouldn’t explain how Lister managed to eat the light bee in Meltdown. Basically it’s a cock up. Yeah, but in the proud tradition of sci-if, nobody’s going to admit if it IS one for another 15 years. ;-) Another thing that raises eyebrows is Doug makes the bee’s damage a big deal in The Last Human for the ending. Unless the explanation of this version of Rimmer in The Beginning includes an all new light bee with different technology. Maybe? Personally, I think they could’ve created a gap under the door or near the hinge the bee could pass through OR have them be able to open it only enough that the bee could slip through. But maybe like a lot of morsels here and there, it’ll be tied up in Episode 6. This mention of projection mode is what eliminates the light bee, is what im saying. Light bee can be hard or soft light. But in projection mode he’s like the hologramme generated by the ship so no small physical presence at that point. It’s the wiggle that is the light bee coming back into action.
As Shakespear used to say when he wasnt waxing his skullet. Light bee or not Light bee, It’s in a pickle.
> I think it’s pretty fair for her to say it feels like it’s not really on, if she feels like it’s not really on. The production issues are indeed unfortunate but I don’t think quality gets a free pass. If we had to account for misfortune in the process, Ed Wood’s films would have to rank among cinema’s finest, and I don’t think you’d find many people making that kind of argument. Sorry if I was unclear. I don’t think Tanya should enjoy or be forgiving to certain parts of the episode because of the production situation. What happens behind the scenes shouldn’t influence our opinions on an episode. The episode is what it is at the end of the day. However, the way I read this: > The episode felt half-finished because it was…half-finished. Not really on, IMO. Made it sound like she was disappointed with the crew for delivering an episode that wasn’t as fully developed as it could have been, with particular reference to the bits which were last minute rewrites, when it seems that the situation was pretty much unavoidable. It wasn’t really the crew’s fault so I feel we can’t really have a go at them for it. It’s like giving someone 20 minutes to do a 1 hour job. You don’t have to be happy with the results but you can’t really blame them for not doing the job to your satisfaction. Of course I could have totally misinterpreted what Tanya meant and she did clarify that it was her opinion so she’s free to keep hers and I’ll stick to mine :) I didn’t mention the crew! I’m a little baffled that you interpreted my comment in that way. Perhaps I should say ‘half-written’, because it’s the plot I’ve got a problem with. I expect more from someone with Doug’s experience, especially when he’s got a series on a fairly large digital channel and more publicity than the BBC ever gave him. However, I didn’t like series VII and VIII, which had the largest viewing figures for BBC Dwarf, so I’m not suggesting that my opinion’s all that significant…
Brilliant podcast. Yet another great interview. I thought you would announcing Steven as back at Dimension Jump. So Glad thats true. Sadly The guys at Dimension Jump haven’t invited me to next year’s convention. As I’d appeared at last year’s DJ apparently I’m not on the gust list next time as it’s “full”. They did offer a free weekend pass as an attendee which I have decided not to take. If anyone has any BEGG related questions I’ll be happy to answer them! Steven
Sadly The guys at Dimension Jump haven’t invited me to next year’s convention. As I’d appeared at last year’s DJ apparently I’m not on the gust list next time as it’s “full”. They did offer a free weekend pass as an attendee which I have decided not to take. Well, the offer of a free weekend pass will remain open, should you change your mind Steven. :)
The dirty Bastards! I call for a boycott of the event till the BEGGS get invited! BEGGS are people too! I will cancel my plans to go till the BEGGS are invited! BEGG discrimination has gone on too long! I and the boys on the ranch have your back Steve! We want BEGGS! Reminds me of the discrimination of the Irish NO BEGGS NEED APPLY! BEGG POWER! Feels like the Sixties again!
Brilliant podcast. Yet another great interview. I thought you would announcing Steven as back at Dimension Jump. So Glad thats true. Sadly The guys at Dimension Jump haven’t invited me to next year’s convention. As I’d appeared at last year’s DJ apparently I’m not on the gust list next time as it’s “full”. They did offer a free weekend pass as an attendee which I have decided not to take. If anyone has any BEGG related questions I’ll be happy to answer them! Steven So … is a BEGG a subset of GELFs? Or something else altogether? (And if they ever find the floating-about Earth – sorry, Garbage World – from the BTL novel, how long you think it would it take a team of them to clear it off? :-D )
So … is a BEGG a subset of GELFs? Or something else altogether? (And if they ever find the floating-about Earth – sorry, Garbage World – from the BTL novel, how long you think it would it take a team of them to clear it off? :-D ) I would say that the BEGG’s are another breed of GELF, yes.
So … is a BEGG a subset of GELFs? Or something else altogether? (And if they ever find the floating-about Earth – sorry, Garbage World – from the BTL novel, how long you think it would it take a team of them to clear it off? :-D ) I would say that the BEGG’s are another breed of GELF, yes. I think she was asking Steven.
Late to the party here, but I particularly enjoyed the little detail that Rimmer lifts the box of health and safety forms with his back, and not with his legs. No idea if it was even deliberate, but “lift with your legs” is the one thing that sticks in my mind from H&S training!
Yes BEGGs are a breed of GELF as far as I am aware, although the main difference in being Biologically Engineered, not Genetically Engineered. I believe that a lot of the creatures met throughout the series history have been some kind of GELF, so these are just a variant on the theme!!
Yes BEGGs are a breed of GELF as far as I am aware, although the main difference in being Biologically Engineered, not Genetically Engineered. I believe that a lot of the creatures met throughout the series history have been some kind of GELF, so these are just a variant on the theme!! The one thing I wasn’t really clear on, is your character meant to be a male or female BEGG? When I first saw you were going to be in another episode I thought you were reprising the bride role, so before I saw this ep I obviously thought “female” … to be honest, I still presumed female once I saw “Entangled,” but then I read somewhere where the BEGG chief was male. Which is correct? Thanks! :-)
Kryten and Lister referred to him as “he”, in reference to English boarding schools. If I thought hard enough about it, I’d probably remember that bit, but I think I was lost enough in my own preconception of the chief that I couldn’t earlier …
Quantum entanglement got me thinking: It would be really cool if someone would write a Part 2 to Austin’s “Science of Red Dwarf” article and include all the Series X stuff – quantum rods, quantum entanglement, biological vs. genetic engineering, even making a battery out of a lemon. This Austin guy was way before my time, but I read his article in “Garbage Pod” and found it really interesting and helpful.
That would indeed be excellent, but Austin ran away a few years back, and none of us are a tenth as smart as he was. We’d welcome a guest contribution, though.
Don’t underestimate yourselves, Ian. This was the same website that produced ‘The Red Dwarf Boom Guide.’ The sky’s the limit!
Yes BEGGs are a breed of GELF as far as I am aware, although the main difference in being Biologically Engineered, not Genetically Engineered. I believe that a lot of the creatures met throughout the series history have been some kind of GELF, so these are just a variant on the theme!! The one thing I wasn’t really clear on, is your character meant to be a male or female BEGG? When I first saw you were going to be in another episode I thought you were reprising the bride role, so before I saw this ep I obviously thought “female” … to be honest, I still presumed female once I saw “Entangled,” but then I read somewhere where the BEGG chief was male. Which is correct? Thanks! :-) The Chief was definitely a HE!!
Yes BEGGs are a breed of GELF as far as I am aware, although the main difference in being Biologically Engineered, not Genetically Engineered. I believe that a lot of the creatures met throughout the series history have been some kind of GELF, so these are just a variant on the theme!! The one thing I wasn’t really clear on, is your character meant to be a male or female BEGG? When I first saw you were going to be in another episode I thought you were reprising the bride role, so before I saw this ep I obviously thought “female” … to be honest, I still presumed female once I saw “Entangled,” but then I read somewhere where the BEGG chief was male. Which is correct? Thanks! :-) The Chief was definitely a HE!! Hey, it ain’t no insult to be thought a woman! :-D LOL, thanks for answering stuff. (I’m still trying to figure out plotwise who Lister thought he was kidding by putting Rimmer in that ugly coat; his lady legs can still be seen, after all …) Anything you thought people might ask about the BEGGs that they haven’t yet?
Bit bizarre, but I’m currently reading the graphic novel V for Vendetta, and Koestler’s The Root’s of Coincidence makes an appearance. It’s even the same copy from Entangled! What a coincidence!
Been rewatching the series, and I’ve noticed something. I don’t know if anyone’s brought this up before, but E.R.R.A. and the related jokes are a lot like the world of Rob Grant’s ‘incompetence’. What a coincidence!
