Let’s Talk About Lemons News Posted by Ian Symes on 18th October 2012, 18:55 Jesus Christ, it’s new Red Dwarf night! Series X Episode 3, Lemons, premieres on Dave and Dave HD, tonight at 9:oopm. Please splatter this thread with your reactions and opinions. We’ll be selecting some choice ones to read out on tonight’s LIVE instant reaction Dwarfcast. The show will start at 10:00pm, and the link will appear right here, and on our Twitter page, just after the episode finishes on Dave. It’s well worth following us on there, just in case our server decides to fall over again. While you’re waiting for Christ to appear, why not have another read of our set report from the audience recording night. And if that’s not enough, why not listen to the neckbearded tones of our very own Jonathan Capps, polluting the Red Dwarf Introcast’s analysis of Backwards? Do both of these things, then report back here immediately after Lemons. DO IT.
I think that at the end of the episode it will be revealed that the Jesus that the Red Dwarf crew took back to the ship to give medical care to (and who subsequently read a book about all the wars, misery etc Jesus Christ caused) turnes out to be an everyday Jesus and not the famous one.
Ive never really been a fan of the ‘off ship’ episodes. but since ive loved this series so far. im ready for this one! :) it better be good, particularly since Holoship and Inquisitor follow it :)
>Let’s Talk About Lemons *ahem* “The lemon (Citrus × limon) is a small evergreen tree native to Asia, and the tree’s ellipsoidal yellow fruit. The fruit’s juice, pulp and peel, especially the zest, are used as foods. The juice of the lemon is about 5% to 6% citric acid, which gives lemons a sour taste. The distinctive sour taste of lemon juice makes it a key ingredient in drinks and foods such as lemonade.” Sorry, but someone had to, just thought I’d get it over with.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of the ‘Off Ship’ episodes either – especially since I really love the new sets for Red Dwarf and the models, and want to see more of them – but I do find myself looking forward to this episode more than I was initially :o).
I think that at the end of the episode it will be revealed that the Jesus that the Red Dwarf crew took back to the ship to give medical care to (and who subsequently read a book about all the wars, misery etc Jesus Christ caused) turnes out to be an everyday Jesus and not the famous one. A simple carpenter’s son who learns how to do magic tricks like that and doesn’t go into showbusiness? Do any of us believe that, even for a second?
I’ve not sure about our lord Jebus being the main guest. I was expecting someone… more real? You never know..It could be just a bloke called jesus who they think is *the* Jesus.. who knows :) I just read the set report, its made me more curious of the episode, even though im more looking forward to ‘the beginning’
I wonder about jesus based backlash, I doubt there’ll be jesus based whining, but I reckon a few adenoidal goits will whinge about it having ‘bindun…
Loving this so far, some killer gags. Love the ‘You’re him from the Bible, aren’t you?’ and ‘Skullet’ in particular! Already better than last week’s, IMHO
So were Rimmer’s parents Seventh Day Advent Hoppists as well as belonging to the Church of Judas? Or is this a dreaded…continuity change. Either way, enjoying it very much at the half way point!
Went to see this one being filmed. Gutted they cut out Lister singing Ganymede and Titan as he’s cooking in the opening shot.
Loving it so far!! the Ikea jokes made me laugh as well as the ‘Kryten’ music from Series II! the characters look much more comfy in their parts too!
I like the milking of the model shots in the first two or three minutes. I was worried we wouldn’t get a lot of gorgeous new model shots in this ep – and there’s some bloody beautiful ones too!
So, I’m watching it with a slight delay, but so far, my verdict is pretty bloody good. Great writing, solid plot and that India set looks fantastic. Also, a couple of lovely model shots at the beginning. Great stuff.
Well the trailer for next week was fucking dreadful wasn’t it? The only new footage was about 3 seconds of Rimmer pulling faces. That episode thing that was on before it though was alright, though.
Skullet. Organs in the freezer–that totally cracked me up! YUCK! Best episode so far. Think I’ll go smoke some bark now.
The revelation that Kryten performs operations on Lister without him knowing deserved a bigger laugh. I was all but wetting myself at that idea at the recording.
Great stuff. Certainly one of the weirdest stories Red Dwarf has ever done but it did so well with the whole set up that I can’t help but love it.
SKULLET! Really loved that episode :) I was so pleased and relieved with the reveal that Jesus wasn’t supposed to be the “real” Jesus, I think a lot of people would have had a problem with the show if this hadn’t been the case. Lots of memorable gags in this and it had a really classic weird dwarfy feel, especially when they reused the series 2 music from ‘Kryten’ :) This episode was obviously a big gamble, for me it worked.
I enjoyed that a lot purely because the comedy was excellent. There was barely a flat line throughout, this could honestly end up being one of the funniest episodes of Red Dwarf in my eyes. The references back to Shakespeare that annoyed Rimmer were brilliant as was the fact Cat had eaten Listers spleen. The only bit i didn’t care for was when Rimmer was pretending to work out Jesus’s age, it went on for far too long and killed the joke. Cat was excellent again this week, every line he had was delivered to perfection. Rimmer expanding on why his middle name was Judas felt perfect for the character and i a welcome addition to his backstory. I’m glad Kryten has become a more serious version of the character again, while his whiny cleaning obsessed side was alluded to at the start i’m glad he ended up being the one who provided actual useful info to the crew. I felt the plot was weak, why did the shower send them back in time and why not just send them to India straight away? There’s just no way they’d travel 4000 miles to get to India. I like the continuity of them having no anesthetic and also Lister mentioning they need to find Kochanski. In the end it was just really enjoyable to watch and felt like a really strong episode of Red Dwarf. I’m very happy! Small Point: The montage music as they were assembling the shower is the same as season 2 where Kryten is cleaning everything. It made me feel all fuzzy and nostalgic. Oh, and the Ram scoop shot of Red Dwarf looked AMAZING.
I think this might be one I like a little bit less out of the three episodes so far. It’s still a good episode and was certainly better than I thought it would be, but it kinda felt a little… short. I was expecting a bit more from the episode, and during first viewing, when the credits rolled, I thought, “Is that it?”. I think this episode will grow on me more on repeated viewings. That was certainly the case when I first saw “Terrorform” – I remember I didn’t enjoy it as much at first, and now it’s one of my favourite episodes.
That episode was brilliant! Although what’s with all the Rimmer hating on Shakespeare…perhaps since Marooned, he’s actually tried to read some and now hates it!
Best of the three so far, definitely. Felt like an idea that might have been tried around series 3 – certainly would have stood out like a sore thumb in series VIII. Some genuinely funny moments, and I’ve always liked when Lister is used as a catalyst to get a bit philosophical. It was bold and fresh but definitely felt like Dwarf. Only things that grated were a couple of recycled gags – the mini golf with autopsy equipment was essentially the same gag as Lister’s meal in Polymorph. The cannibalizing of Lister’s removed organs (kept for what reason?) was reminiscent of the ‘chicken’ in Tikka To Ride. But I’m nitpicking. It was a great half hour. The guy playing Jesus (didn’t catch his name) did a great job. Danny has been absolutely superb so far this series – in fact I’d say Cat is more consistently funny than he has been in any previous series.
Well fuck. I really loved that. Bit heavy handed on the religion hypocrisy, but unlike the last two weeks, the cast felt like they’d found their characters again. That could easily have fit into series IV/V. So happy I have no negative comments this week. Loved Cat’s reaction to the organ freezer, nice to have classic cat back, he’s been played for an actual idiot recently, and he’s not. Also Kryten’s mask seems to be getting better. I missed the opening minutes, so about to catch up. I hope nobody does a racist face. Edit: Hmmmm, these opening ‘bunkroom’ conversations are really weak, but as soon as the plot kicks in, they’re off.
The only bit i didn’t care for was when Rimmer was pretending to work out Jesus’s age, it went on for far too long and killed the joke. I thought the opposite, the longer it went on, the more I was laughing
My favourite Series X episode so far. Plently of scenes with all four Dwarfers together. The Cat eating Lister’s dinner/organs pay-off got a big laugh down my way. Re-using the Kryten cleaning music was another Goodall masterstroke.
unlike the last two weeks, the cast felt like they’d found their characters again. While i wouldn’t go as far as to say the actors weren’t really nailing their characters in the first two episodes, I agree that this episode is where they’ve totally clicked. The characters in this episode were definitely the ones i fell in love with all those years ago, both in performance and writing. I don’t think they’ve been like this for me since Series 6. Maybe series 5.
It was an average episode, I got that feeling of Deja Vu again, like Doug is re-wording his jokes. The Cat eating the spleen material was very similar to the Tikka to Ride joke where they eat the man on the street. It had a lot of potential but it fell a bit flat for me. I’m not particularly enjoying this series. Not dreadful, not great. I’ve just got that horrible nagging feeling everyone’s gonna turn around in a few weeks and go, well that was actually bollocks. I don’t think it’s really smart of them to be airing the classic episodes straight after X, it really shows you how much the cast and their performances has changed. And the fact I’m even calling them classics now makes me sad. Boo.
Very enjoyable. Looking forward to re-watching already. I loved the ‘He hath risen’ followed by the classic ‘paaaa’ laugh. The title in yellow was a very nice touch. Trojan – B+ Fathers and Suns – B Lemons – B+ But, anyway, my thoughts on Benny Hill to follow.
I’ll second the guy who said it was rubbish. Infact, ill go one further and say that it was possibly worse than BTE. Coming on this website and reading what people think if this new series genuinely scares me. Because if that wasn’t shit Dwarf, I don’t know what is. Poor writing (‘oh look, we’ve accidentally time traveled through the fault of some random and trivial technological device. Let’s not draw attention to that though, let’s walk to India for 6 months, without questioning how ridiculous this is’), pantomime acting (Rimmer in the Shakespeare scene was appalling), underdeveloped plotline (oh look we’ve time traveled, now we’ve kidnapped Jesus, quick operation, now he’s back). The whole thing just felt like a failed attempt to BE Red Dwarf. Like something you would get if you fed a load of information about Red Dwarf into a supercomputer, and asked it to write a new episode.
I liked the story, very good like last weeks it’s just I didn’t find it that funny – not enough big laughs. I still think Trojan has the best big laughs of the series so far.
Good: Rimmer being proud to hold Jesus’ cock, Lister calling Jesus’ a bit of a nob, Kryten doing ops on Lister and Cat realising he might have ate some of his organs. Also some of the new model shots were exceptional on this episode but not onscreen long enough! Bad: Mentions of eBay and Wallace & Grommit feel strange in Dwarf, old material being used such as call me Ace or Big Man, time machine being used again that no amazingly isn’t thought to be used to go back to earth to a period the want to get to, dodgy outside sets, the crew walking to India, and Jesus being in Dwarf just doesn’t sit right to me… sorry! Overall an okay episode to me, but would have preferred an on ship episode. Wasn’t as clever as Fathers And Suns or as funny as Trojan. Still good enough but trying TOO hard if anything. Keep it simple and Dwarf at a low budget can be genius!
The music from ‘Kryten’!!! That is all I’ve got right now…apart from an OPINION on the episode, which is…intrigueness!! That set was fucking amazing. Jesus was quite a mixed, mad performance. Danny sounds like Jeremy Dyson. This is all I have right now.
Must say I wasn’t expecting much of this one (I was worried it might end up a sub-‘Tikka to Ride’), but it turned out a lot better than I expected. Probably doesn’t reach the height of the best stuff of ‘Fathers and Suns’, but had none of the crappy subplots. The revelation that it wasn’t the real Jesus was a bit of a cop-out plot-wise, but they got good comedy out of it. What stood out was that Doug really did his research on this one, lots of impressive little details in the script. The spleen gag was the best, and I loved “isn’t Britain famous for copper?”. 7 out of 10, may rise to 7.5 on re-watch.
Someone has to say it… I thought Lemons was rubbish. I liked the idea, the concept but just not enough gags I felt. The end shot fell a bit flat I thought like last weeks. Trojan’s was much better.
I really think they missed a trick tonight by not having “All characters portrayed within this program are entirely fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental” – that would have tied it up fantastically for me.. I was curious first about Jesus’ accent, but with the reveal that he isn’t the right guy – it all comes together, and like with that, so many of the jokes had moments where i felt like ‘i know what’s coming..’ but yet were executed so well that they had me lolling regardless. I’m kind of disappointed that lister wasn’t singing when he was cooking (which i’d been told about) but that aside this script felt like it had really been honed, that running gags were kept to a relevant length, overreactions toned a little into just reactions and so on, I think everything felt sharp enough to dip in lemon juice and jab in someones eye… I loved this one. it’s starting to worry me just how good this series is – I really feel like a polymorph is waiting to jump out on me or something…
RE: Your complaints of James Baxter – He’s not Jesus and the switching around of his voice I assumed came from the fact he was a criminal, on the run, so he was acting, within the story.
Rimmer suggesting dismantling Kryten and using parts of him as a power source would have provided lolz.
Interesting there’s nothing new in the trailer for next week. Are they holding something back? Possibly to do with the hairy legs in the title sequence? Belfs? Belf planet?
*hands up* as one guilty of fancying redhead85 when she joined…and hearing her lovely voice is very nice also! :)
Btw Jesus’s crazy accent is far preferrable to a generic ‘Jesus’ voice (you know the kind of voice that would be).
But ahhhhh… Btw Jesus’s crazy accent is far preferrable to a generic ‘Jesus’ voice (you know the kind of voice that would be).
I just have to say that, if you really are Clayton Hickman, ex-editor of DWM, I think you are Fantastic. Just wanted to tell you that.
Hi guys, just a quick thought on the Rimmer family religion thing: He said that Judas was his Mum’s idea, perhaps she and her family were C.o.Judas and when she got married she took her husband ‘faith’ as the main teaching to raise their boys. By the time Arnold came along she had decided she wanted to have some of her beliefs/upbringing instilled in her youngest. It’s a working theory, but it’s the only one I have. Over all I enjoyed the ep, I’ve tried to stay as spoiler free as possible save for the trailers, so I had no expectations. Peace.
Is PetePartThree saying religion isn’t Red Dwarf? Going off ship? or meeting celebrities? Because Waiting for God is one of the best episodes ever and Lister finds out he’s cat-god in the very first episode. The JFK stuff are the best bits from Tikka to Ride and Meltdown is a classic.
Small point: I liked how Cat said everything was earth with the crew and it’s never a planet of Cat ladies they land on.
I just have to say that, if you really are Clayton Hickman, ex-editor of DWM, I think you are Fantastic. Just wanted to tell you that. Blimey, thank you. Really. You’re lovely! X
Enjoyable Romp. Glad Dwarf got off the ship to a planet etc. But to honest not very funny. A few laughs but felt this one more as an adventure than a comedy.
Yeah loved the reuse of the Kryen music cue. The need to reuse music, gives us some nice fanboy moments of spotting stuff like that.
The need to exposition how lemon batteries work vs a guy looking on who doesnt know what a bag is. Genius way of writing that in. :-)
>Is PetePartThree saying religion isn’t Red Dwarf? Going off ship? or meeting celebrities? Have had a few beers and was rambling rather a lot so didn’t really make this clear. Religion, specifically. I don’t there’s a question of anyone being offended by Waiting For God, whereas the notion of meeting “Jesus” is treading the same path which Monty Python did and that created a big old stink. I don’t think any sensible religious people (there are some) could get offended by Lemons, but there’s lots of stupid religious people who could…so it’s *slightly* dodgy ground. I think Doug was aware of this so that’s why it’s perhaps a bit unusual. I can’t think of many episodes where the synopsis could get a certain cross-section suspicious that this was bashing an icon (which Lemons didn’t…but teased). The other problem is that the *proof* of Jesus being a real person is just as dubious as him being the son of god. But, again, the episode -more or less- avoids that.
Just noticed when they were looking for something to test the shower with Lister finds an battery and throws it away like a piece of junk. I like little things like that :) I think this is my favourite so far even though I didn’t like the guest actors performance.
The calculator joke was very milked and wasnt worth it. Like the new use of smeg in the cleaning joke. :-)
I think Skullet is my favourite joke in this. Not just the term, but all of it, including the idea that people dont mock his hair enough.
Coo! I got on a Dwarfcast! That’s going above ‘Totally Doctor Who’ on my CV. No it really is. This is my new favourite G&T comment.
>Danny sounds like Jeremy Dyson. Just read “Yani’s Day” in his second short story collection (Dyson, not Danny), but I have no one to talk to about how brilliant it is. This probably isn’t the time or place, but I gotta grasp these straws while I can…
I know it’s nitpicking. But how does Rimmers hard light hologramme stay powered over 6 months, and indeed kryten stay powered that long, and you cant use their power to make a battery some how.
I know it’s nitpicking. But how does Rimmers hard light hologramme stay powered over 6 months, and indeed kryten stay powered that long, and you cant use their power to make a battery some how. I wondered this exact same thing. How can he stay powered up if he’s lost connection with the ship?
Coo! I got on a Dwarfcast! That’s going above ‘Totally Doctor Who’ on my CV. No it really is. This is my new favourite G&T comment. I love you, Cappsy. Almost as much as Jesus. x
I know it’s nitpicking. But how does Rimmers hard light hologramme stay powered over 6 months, and indeed kryten stay powered that long, and you cant use their power to make a battery some how. I wondered this exact same thing. How can he stay powered up if he’s lost connection with the ship? Highly advanced futuristic solar technology.
>Highly advanced futuristic solar technology. Yeah thats a fair point. In the past when hollogramme power has become a problem. They were mostly onboard ships werent they.
The talk in the instant cast. About guest stars. I think there some best ones still coming. It’s too early to judge. And yeah. Rebbecca was great in Fathers and suns.
Here’s what I Tweeted earlier. Some stuff was picked up by Team G&T in the ‘cast, most of it was mentioned by others, having been noticed independently. So here I’m just copying and pasting my Tweets, and adding the time I Tweeted them, just for the hell of it, to give you an idea of my immediate thoughts. *ahem* 9:38pm: Hmm. Honestly? I’m not sure about that. Going to need another viewing in the morning. :/ 9:57-10:03pm: So – and these comments are for @ganymedetitan’s benefit as much as anyone else – I really didn’t know what to make of Lemons. (LEMONADE!!) It was funny enough. Some more wonderful model shots/beauty passes. Lovely music cues (eg the one from Kryten). And The Cat wearing that old tartan suit from s5. And despite messing with continuity re his mother’s religion, there seems to be a lot of series linked continuity here, what with Lister on about the Robotics course etc. But lots didn’t quite work for me. The pacing was odd as was that ad break placing. I’m REALLY not sure about this episode, which is not a feeling I like having about my beloved Dwarf. So, um, yeah. All that was for G&T, really. 10:41pm: @ganymedetitan Re the ep4 trailer – there was nothing in that that we haven’t already seen. Which is a bit of a shame. What I’ll say is that the last two weeks, I’ve been particularly gushing about RDX immediately following the episodes. After Trojan, I gave it a solid 7/10, and then last week, after describing Fathers & Suns as ‘something special’, and giving it a rating of 8 or 9/10, it was Team G&T’s views in the ‘casts and online that tend to shape my own. My rating for ep2 dropped to another solid 7/10, but tonight, my immediate rating would be hovering around a 6/10. I really need to see it again, because I just didn’t…get…that episode. :/
Really looking forward to watching this again tomorrow when I get a chance. Really enjoyed it. I want to rank it in comparison to Trojan and Fathers & Suns but all three episodes have felt really quite different to me. And though the plot was quite outlandish in this one and not as Dwarfy as say Fathers & Suns which had A and B plots that were pure Dwarf, this episode felt more like Dwarf to me. Probably because there were quite a few longer scenes (last week felt so rushed!) with the four lads just talking, all offering something to the conversation, all throwing in a gag. People on TOS claiming it’s possibly the worst episode ever hahahaha. I’m all for opinions but really?
I’m going to have to rewatch it, but my gut verdict (or “gurdict”) was that the first half of the episode was a little weak while the second half was more or less brilliant.
After 2nd viewing I’m thinking Doug did an outstanding job with ‘Lemons’, the script in particular. While it’s probably not his funniest solo episode (though the meat/organs gag is being deposited right in the Woofminster Bank ;)), I’d say it’s a contender for his overall best. The stuff with Rimmer’s parents isn’t even a continuity gaffe because, as others have said, there’s nothing to say they didn’t change to 7th Advent Hoppists later on! The fact that this episode is making us even discuss this is mindblowing… What did people think of the exterior scene? I’m glad they didn’t try and make us believe that a dodgy patch of woodland on a dull winter’s day was 23AD India! The big market set was genius. I wonder if Doug would have done it any differently if they’d had those location weeks.
This does start pretty well actually. Rewatching now. When I think of how much the coldness of the tomato or the fake bunk scene toilet stuff in back to earth make me hate the show. I like how this episode starts.It’s much better handled. The indian version of red dwarf theme. Wasnt that used on the postcard teaser online stuff for back to earth?
People on TOS claiming it’s possibly the worst episode ever hahahaha. I’m all for opinions but really? I tend to ignore the TOS because they never really like anything, anyway, bunch of whiners. IMO, their opinions are wrong and don’t count. :P
People on TOS claiming it’s possibly the worst episode ever hahahaha. I’m all for opinions but really? It’s totally OK to be wrong. EDIT: I’d left this page open and didn’t account for updating in the interim. Didn’t see Blisschick’s comment
OK, i’m gonna write this down as i’m an idiot who forgets to mention what I consider massive things in the plot. Why did the Rejuvenation Shower send the crew back in time. My half arsed-explanation. They built it wrong, that much is obvious, but instead of rejuvenating THEM it behaved much in the same way as the Triplicator and rejuvenated the UNIVERSE, that sent them to England in 23AD. Coincidence, meh quantum rod did it.
My thought when the rejuvenation shower malfunctioned : “See, this is what happens when men don’t bother to read the instructions. They never, ever do.” I seriously worry when there are spare parts. The plastic clippy things are there for a reason.
Good, but the weakest of the three I’d say. Quite a few moments I liked very much, such as Rimmer and Lister winding up Kryten about his cleaning obsession, and Kryten moaning that they didn’t make a shopping list, but nothing as awesome as Lister jetting into THE SCOOP or the drunk Lister/Lister scenes in F&S, and there were a few things that irked me. I didn’t like how the rejuvenation shower sent them through time and space with no explanation, and the Wallace and Gromit line just reminded me of the Barney the dinosaur mention in VIII. (Also, do people associate W&G with Xmas particularly?) Overall it just didn’t hang together as well as the first two episodes, partly because of the odd subject matter, although I did quite like that there were no sub-plots to speak of this week. Solid performances from all of the main cast again and the main guest star was pretty good, and rather bonny. Lovely sets etc., high production values all round. Am I right in thinking Kryten having quarters has never been mentioned before?
There’s just no way they’d travel 4000 miles to get to India. What else would they do? Just stay there forever?
> his second short story collection (Dyson, not Danny) I didn’t know there was such a thing! Never Trust a Rabbit has some cracking writing in it.
Danny sounds like Jeremy Dyson. First time i’ve heard that. Usually it’s Reece, but that’s usually because i’m doing a Reece impersonation…
First time i’ve heard that. Usually it’s Reece, but that’s usually because i’m doing a Reece impersonation… And to be fair that is a pretty good impression.
I got that feeling of Deja Vu again, like Doug is re-wording his jokes. I think that hits the nail on the head. Some of the most common criticisms on other sites are that this series is predictable, old-fashioned and that the jokes are stuck in 1988. Many of the jokes feel like worse versions of gags from previous series. Some of the dialogue at the start of the episode had me cringing and the OTT reactions from the audience only made it worse. I also think that the characterization has gone to some extent. Rimmer in this episode felt wrong. Both because he is no longer a source of animosity and because he was the one coming up with plans to get them home. I`ve tried to give this series a chance but maybe it`s just that I can`t enjoy Doug`s Dwarf. If I hadn`t been such a big fan of series 1-6 then I probably wouldn`t watch any more.
>I`ve tried to give this series a chance but maybe it`s just that I can`t enjoy Doug`s Dwarf. If I hadn`t been such a big fan of series 1-6 then I probably wouldn`t watch any more. Dunno, I’m a huge fan of 1-6, didn’t like 7, hated 8, wasn’t fussed about BtE, but I’m really liking series X. It’s not quite as good as 1-6 but that doesn’t mean anything to me, to be honest. Still, each to their own, I guess.
I liked it more then the last 2 weeks……things still could still use some tightening up a bit but it was good.
That was the best episode of the run up to now. There were a few moments when I felt like it was about to take a dive but then it never did and had me laughing throughout. Only criticism would be that I still wish the model shots were a bit longer, but that really felt like a series 4 or 6 episode. Was strange they didn’t mention using Kryten as a power source, but let’s just assume that there is some reason they couldn’t. Doesn’t bother me with Rimmer not having a power source, that’s always been something that changes story to story, lets just assume he’s solar powered and ignore it.
I must say that I thought this episode was the best of the three. Thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish. The adventure, the comedy, the story all were top notch in my opinion. Best joke of the show has to be the Lister’s organs being the pork. Had me in fits of laughter well after the scene had ended. Also I didn’t cotton on that wasn’t the real Jesus although when his accent sounded slightly Liverpudlian it made me think “odd” but I got over it. The one thing I would say about all the episodes is they have each started a bit slow. All of the opening scenes haven’t been particularly amazing on first view but seem better on a rewatch once you know the joke that comes out later in the episode. I’m still yet to rewatch this one but if my previous rewatches of episodes are to go by, it will get better in my eyes. I didn’t notice right away but about a half hour after the episode finished airing I noticed I was still smiling at it, I haven’t had an episode of comedy do this for a long time. One of the things that is annoying me is when people say “oh it’s not as good as 1-6 blah blah blah”. I don’t think it ever can be compared to be honest. Times have changed, comedy has changed and I’m just sitting back and enjoying each episode as it comes. Yes a lot of the old episodes are fantastic, but not every episode was good. This season has some really funny stuff and just thinking about some of the jokes so far makes me smile. If the back half of the season is as good as the first it will be a strong series of Dwarf! My episode ratings so far: Trojan – 4/5 Fathers & Suns – 3/5 Lemons – 4.5/5
>Yes a lot of the old episodes are fantastic, but not every episode was good. I’m struggling to think of an episode that isn’t, at least, good (in my eyes). Would be interested in hearing which episodes you don’t like (from 1-6).
One of the things that is annoying me is when people say “oh it’s not as good as 1-6 blah blah blah”. I don’t think it ever can be compared to be honest. Times have changed, comedy has changed and I’m just sitting back and enjoying each episode as it comes. I think that one of the very things that people (including some of the press) have criticized is that comedy has changed but Dwarf hasn`t. Still the same jokes but executed less well than in the past.
A couple of further points… I`ve always been a huge fan of Chris Barrie`s acting but his performance in the Shakespeare scene was beyond awful. Comfortably his worst in the show`s history. That whole scene sums up one of the issues with Series X for me. In every episode Doug seems to want to start out by setting up a running gag (or more than one). Not only is this time consuming (the scene lasted 2 1/2 minutes) but it means that each episode has started slowly with too few laughs. This means that the pay-off to the running gag has to be especially funny to make it worthwhile and again in this episode it wasn`t. The phone story, Chinese whispers stuff and Shakespeare gag should all have been cut. The later scene with Jesus ranting about the ten commandments was similarly dire. It made the `so what else is new` moment in Waiting for God look subtle in comparison.
>Yes a lot of the old episodes are fantastic, but not every episode was good. I’m struggling to think of an episode that isn’t, at least, good (in my eyes). Would be interested in hearing which episodes you don’t like (from 1-6). OK the list is short (3 episodes) and maybe saying not every episode was good wasn’t what I meant, more that some episodes aren’t as good as others/have flat jokes. The episodes that make me laugh least off the top of my head are: Waiting for God, The Last Day, Camille. Now let me say this first, I do not think they are bad episodes, just not every joke is laugh out loud/good and that’s the point I am making. OK some of the jokes haven’t worked in the new series but there has been a lot more laugh out moments than not, in my opinion.
I saw this one recorded – to be honest I think it’s the weakest of the 3 so far. Geordie Jesus was a bit annoying (not cos he’s a Geordie, just in general). I am rather against episodes where the crew go back in time to Earth’s past; it undermines the concept of the show a bit I always feel. BTE just about got away with it as it was maybe the last ever Dwarf. But I never liked Tikka To Ride much for this reason (though it’s best joke does get re-purposed in this episode). This was amusing but never really hilarious. The first two shows had at least one killer scene each; this just sort of lay there. One thing I will say for it: there were no B or C plots, just THE plot. Good.
tyepye, I find the Uncle Frank story in The Last Day to be a highlight of the entire Red Dwarf franchise. Maybe that’s CB’s delivery of it though. Camille I can sort of see though, and I read in an interview that Rob Grant hates Waiting for God. I don’t mind if there’s more than one plot. It’s a new approach and has kept the show fresh for me.
I know it’s nitpicking. But how does Rimmers hard light hologramme stay powered over 6 months How did it stay powered for 600 years in a prison cell on Rimmerworld?
OK; so for me, the organs/meat joke made me howl with laughter, as did Kryten’s “he hath risen!” and Rimmer’s “You’re him off the Bible, aren’t you?”. Also liked Kryten’s massively complex ‘layman’ explanation of the lemon battery to a guy who doesn’t even know what a bag is. Not so good was the Shakespeare intro, although I accept that it was needed for the later gags when the same phrases were used. Also dislike the dodgy beard on Lister as the only indication they’d all supposedly travelled 4000 miles. A bit more dirt & grime on them, more weary, would have been preferable. (cf. Lister’s beard after stasis in Psirens – much better) One thing that jarred was Lister’s comment of getting back to the ship to go and find Kochanski; the remark felt like it referred back to Lister having previously been looking for her earlier in the episode/series, which hasn’t explicitly been mentioned this series in Trojan or F&S (as far as I know, but I am usually wrong…). Unless it’s an implied continuation of BTE? Generally, I found Lemons to be the best of the three so far. Next week’s will be great, as it was the episode I saw filmed! The hairy legs bit is great!
I think one thing this episode majorly benefited from was not having a b-story. The closest it got was the organ meat callback and Shakespeare discussion, but they fitted well into the flow. A question that I can’t believe only just occurred to me…why India? Obviously in the story that was stated as being the place to go get lemons, but nothing else in the episode seemed to be very Indian. Even down to Roman soldiers chasing them around.
> the remark felt like it referred back to Lister having previously been looking for her earlier in the episode/series, which hasn’t explicitly been mentioned this series in Trojan or F&S (as far as I know, but I am usually wrong… It sort of had in F&S with Dad Lister telling Son Lister to find her.
Watching it again I realised that a few scenes have been cut down. Some jokes just aren’t milked as much as they were at the recording. This is a good thing. For your information, the “Jesus” “Yeah?” scene, as has been mentioned by others, had this happen a couple of times before the crew clocked that it may be THE Jesus. At the recording Jesus also responded to Cat saying “a dish fit for a king”, remarking what a brilliant phrase it was much to Rimmer’s annoyance. And then there was the aforementioned Ganymede & Titan bit that was cut from the beginning/not done in the re-record. EDIT: Oh and I think the operation scene was cut down. There’s quite a few good smeg ups that will come from this episode if my memory serves me correctly.
Everyone on TOS hating it again. i hope Doug doesnt read TOS forum posts. There is someone claiming this episode is now in their top 3. Clearly trolling, thankfully not many people have taken the bait.
>How did it stay powered for 600 years in a prison cell on Rimmerworld? Good point, yeah. I never complained about that before. ha ha. I guess the terrorformed society worked something out. But yeah I dont massively care about either. I’m fine with the solar explanation. I realise you cant switch Rimmer off all the time or you’ve got no CB in the show. But they do use it as jepordy at other times so you do end up questioning it sometimes. Probably more so in this because the power source of lemons is so central to the story it created a “hang on a minute” situation to question it more. As a fan of pot noodles being in both The Young Ones and Red Dwarf, I like the mention of Lister’s sock teaming with life, it reminded me of the them attacking it to get it in a bin bag in that show. ha ha.
I would maybe lump it as being about on par with episodes like Timeslides, not perfect by any means but works as a bit of fun. Even though I liked it I still would hope there are some better episodes on the horizon……honestly though the would second have of the new series looks better then anything in the first. They are the ones I’ve been looking forward to most.
I really need to see it again, because I just didn’t…get…that episode. :/ I can relate. I did watch it for a second time last night, and yeah… I think this may be my least favourite from RDX so far. I still want to watch it again, because there are things in it I like and I do think it is a good episode overall, just not as good as ‘Trojan’ and ‘Fathers & Suns’, and it had a bit too much in it that didn’t really sit right with me. He may grow on me, but Geordie Jesus is a disappointment. > the remark felt like it referred back to Lister having previously been looking for her earlier in the episode/series, which hasn’t explicitly been mentioned this series in Trojan or F&S (as far as I know, but I am usually wrong… It sort of had in F&S with Dad Lister telling Son Lister to find her. There was also a line in Trojan: “I’m getting that stirmaster, Rimmer, I’m not hanging up this phone. It goes everywhere with me – the loo, the bath, you name it. If Kochanski walks through that door now and wants sex, I’ll wedge it in me bum crack and get to work.” but I do like that in ‘Lemons’, Lister specifically said “We have to get back and find Kochanski”
I still haven’t worked out what to make of this episode. I didn’t love it, but there’s not too much in there to dislike either so I’m in “mediocre” territory which is a little odd for me and Red Dwarf. I prefer it to Fathers and Suns, but it’s not as good as Trojan for me. I can think of no stronger criticism than “it didn’t really make me laugh” so I think it will probably join the batch of Dwarf episodes that I’m never compelled to rewatch. Structure-wise , I don’t have many complaints although it’s sorely lacking a scene or two where Jesus actually experiences life aboard Red Dwarf. Seems a bit odd that he’s unconscious (I wasn’t overly thrilled with the operation scene) and we get such a hurried revelation that he’s discovered his “legacy”. Also less than keen with the opening scene. On its own, it feels extraneous and, with the later pay-off about Lister’s spleen, I’m no keener. It’s not that I find it unpleasant, I just think the joke went as far as it could when Tony ate Dorothy’s appendix in Men Behaving Badly (which, at least visualized how disgusting this is). I’m also unsure that a callback like this works when about 6 months have passed for the character. I’m surprised Cat even remembers eating that… It has a much more stream-lined feel than the messy Fathers and Suns and for that I’m thankful. I just needed some LOLs, frankly as I found the exchanges within the crew predictable. Alarmingly, it made me feel nostalgic for Tikka to Ride which did this all a lot better.
There is someone claiming this episode is now in their top 3. Clearly trolling, thankfully not many people have taken the bait. Having a positive opinion is “trolling”? God, you’re tiresome.
This episode was the first out of the three which didn’t leave me with a slightly concerned feeling after first viewing (which thankfully rewatching those episodes fixed that problem). Not sure if it’s my favourite out of the three, but my initial reaction has been all positive. Crazy episode, mind. But really enjoyable.
I’m in the category of ‘liked the story, didn’t find the episode all that funny’. There were a few good lines, and I enjoyed it from the perspective of it being new Red Dwarf. Rimmer and Lister were far too chummy for my liking: the way Lister laughed off Rimmer’s suggestion that he try out the shower first; the way Rimmer gently ribbed Lister about reading books; Lister’s bemused reaction to Rimmer making fun of the Cat with the imaginary calculator… in fact Rimmer generally came across as a sarcastic-but-likeable pal of the crew. Now I know the show can’t always have the crew at loggerheads with Rimmer, and there were elements of the same in VIII but it seemed more so than usual in Lemons. Rimmer seems not only more self-aware this series but as if he is actively trying to be ‘the funny, droll one’ in the crew. Certainly in this episode Rimmer got out of bed on the right side that morning. EDIT: I should note that ‘not finding it funny’ doesn’t mean I found it embarrassing or thought the jokes were awful, it ambled along with some gentle laughs and smiles, there was nothing at all I hated, it just had very few woofers.
There is someone claiming this episode is now in their top 3. Clearly trolling, thankfully not many people have taken the bait. Having a positive opinion is “trolling”? God, you’re tiresome. Putting a show you’ve seen just once in your top 3 is a bit hasty and well, just stupid. Jesus, you’re anal.
>but I do like that in ‘Lemons’, Lister specifically said “We have to get back and find Kochanski” HATED this line. It would be justifiable if we’d had a single scene in the past two episodes where Lister seemed to be looking for her, but to suddenly bring her up is awkward.
I think at halfway. The first episode I was massively looking forward to the start of series X. Had trouble getting online to watch it, but was eventually worth it a lot of great stuff. But was, despite having seen recordings, a little in culture shock of New Dwarf style yet again emerging so settling into the mix of what felt new and what felt classic, laughing a lot, and getting to see Howard and star fleet was nice, and i like the on hold plot myself. 2nd episode due to being busy I got to it late, relaxed and just massively loved it, even though there are points i missed and have got better now people have pointed them out to me. The Lister stuff is just fantastic comedy and the pree stuff great scifi and drama and comedy at times, and i really think the concept of chinesse whispers playing out works fine and is clever, with a dramatic pay off. Im over the TT debate and kerry shale now im rewatching it. I think with Lemons I perhaps expected more. It’s a fun adventure and on 2nd watch there is some nice comedy lines here and there. Im kind of wishing that somehow i had not been spoiled as to what this show was about. Given that they are showing trailers at the end ect that show you i cant see how i would have got to that. Maybe I’d have come at it differently if it had been a surprise, where they were, who they meet etc. Bobbys slips of a historical figure. Made it sound as if the comedy of meeting him lead to some kind of comedy level up there with the boxser shorts scene. And maybe some of that is due to what people are saying about the “Jesus” “yes?” scene etc being cut down. But there wasnt any massive funny joke of that kind i didnt see. Not even the Last Supper table reveal which is pretty good shot. And a lot seemed to hang on “it’s jesus” in this episode, but i just felt pretty “so what” about that. Maybe i didnt massively take to the guest actor also playing him. He was flat for me. I didnt dislike, but he doesnt lift the show like the best dwarf guest actors do, and his character even though not jesus, veers unclearly as to what he actually really is like. It was an enjoyable adventure, but even the spleen eating which was done very well, just kind of bores me. There is nothing I would point to as a massive favourite ticklesome dwarf comedy moment. Except for the rimmer skullet speach. I mean i enjoy the DIY gag stuff but it’s not original comedy target for me. This episode might grow on me, but it feels at the moment like the one in X I will rewatch the least. And I think maybe the cast love it because they feel they can reach a wider audience with this topic than some of the sci fi stuff episodes. I do admit the G&T instant cast is spot on about the enssemble cast and focus of the adventure etc. It’s a fun enough trip. Fathers and Suns 9/10 Trojan 8/10 Lemons 6/10 Im pretty sure the series most stand out moments for me are still to come. Maybe having seen recordings will overly make me love certain episodes too. I dont know, but it will be fun finding out.
>but I do like that in ‘Lemons’, Lister specifically said “We have to get back and find Kochanski” HATED this line. It would be justifiable if we’d had a single scene in the past two episodes where Lister seemed to be looking for her, but to suddenly bring her up is awkward. Maybe as Lister doesn’t appear to voice his need for Kochanski that much but in that moment faced being else where longterm he had to say it and voice his disapproval?
>I’m also unsure that a callback like this works when about 6 months have passed for the character. I’m surprised Cat even >remembers eating that… It worked cus people laughed. But yeah i hadnt thought of that, it really shouldnt work. The way he is acting like it’s still on his teeth. That’s totally fudged time line wise.
>Maybe as Lister doesn’t appear to voice his need for Kochanski that much but in that moment faced being else where longterm he had to say it and voice his disapproval? If I believed that was the justification for that line, that would be OK. Unfortunately, the reason Lister said that was because “Hey, we haven’t mentioned Kochanski in a while”. Trojan – 7/10 Fathers and Suns – 3/10 Lemons – 5/10
I don’t care as much about ‘overused comedy targets’ such as Ikea, automated phone systems etc. I will probably still be watching these episodes in 20 years so its almost a historical document of our current times. Other shows satirising these things will likely not be in my playlist in decades to come. It may seem a dated comedy target whilst watching these shows in 2012, but what if Red Dwarf was the FIRST show to ever parody these things? They would still be a creature of their time in 2032 whether Dwarf was the first or last to do it, in the way that things parodied 20 years ago on the show were, yet they don’t jar watching them now. I did enjoy the possible vindication of the Church of Judas at the end of the episode, the revelation that Kryten has been operating on Lister without his knowledge, the realisation when in India that the best place to get copper would be Britain, the way Lister brushes off the lemon seller’s horrific story, and the reveal of the self-assembled rejuvenation shower. There were some good lines in there too, Kryten’s mask looked much better than in Trojan and Robert was in much better form too. Anyone notice that the remote that Jesus smashed up upon arriving back in India was the same piece of equipment that was used for the “Bit Crap” scanner in Back to Earth? At least, I think it was.
I really think Legion’s upgrade was a hell of a thing – indestructible, long-powered, possibly immortal. LOL!
IRimmer and Lister were far too chummy for my liking: the way Lister laughed off Rimmer’s suggestion that he try out the shower first; the way Rimmer gently ribbed Lister about reading books; Lister’s bemused reaction to Rimmer making fun of the Cat with the imaginary calculator… in fact Rimmer generally came across as a sarcastic-but-likeable pal of the crew. I wouldn’t say they seemed like Pal’s persay but the seem far more familiar and comfortable around each other, it seems too me that Doug is keeping in mind how long they have been living together at this point and as such get on each others nerves less. If they were acting with the same attitude to each other as they did 20 years ago then the show would be less believable and all the more shallow for it. For all of Series X’s problems so far I really don’t agree that’s one of them.
I see what Carlito means about Rimmer basically being a bit Chandler in Lemons, but I like that he isn’t a *total* smeghead all of the time these days. No problem seeing it as his character having developed or mellowed slightly with age, rather than him behaving out of character. In fact partly that’s why I liked him and Lister taking the piss out of Kryten together. Since when was Rimmer a ‘big fan’ of Jesus, a hippy with no job and long hair, though? Can’t help thinking the operation scene with Rimmer considering it an honour to hold Jesus’s cock would be better if it was a historical figure we know he admires, like Napoleon.
I’m going to go watch again shortly – I’ve been out this morning, not had chance to have another look yet – but I will just say that Robert Tweeting the other day that Lemons could be his favourite episode perhaps built my expectations a little high. Mind you, last week, I had a bit of a funny turn while I was waiting to watch Fathers & Suns. So, maybe last night, I was too worried about being ill again to concentrate on the story properly. I’ll let you know what I thought later on.
I’m going to go watch again shortly – I’ve been out this morning, not had chance to have another look yet – but I will just say that Robert Tweeting the other day that Lemons could be his favourite episode perhaps built my expectations a little high. Yes but that’s all purely one persons perspective which in itself could be coloured by how much fun he had making it. I mean I’ve seen Robert list Krytie TV as his all time favourite episode.
>Since when was Rimmer a ‘big fan’ of Jesus, a hippy with no job and long hair, though? I think he’s just star-struck by famous people, same as he is with Napoleon.
> Putting a show you’ve seen just once in your top 3 is a bit hasty and well, just stupid. Luckily, people are allowed to be hasty, or stupid. Doesn’t mean they’re trolls.
I think he’s just star-struck by famous people, same as he is with Napoleon. That’s how I took it as well because this is after his mention that his family believes (and likely he himself as well) that Jesus is a fraud. Incidentally I really liked that monolog about how he got his middle name.
After a really promising start with Trojan then mixed feelings about Fathers and Suns, I must say I felt very underwhelmed by Lemons. There is a huge amount of material based on repetition and derived from the classic episodes. Medical equipment used for something else (Polymorph) A beam that was used on an object misfunctions and goes wider that expected (Demons and Angels) Cat eats flesh of a human (Tikka to ride) Crew arrive on earth in a wood/forest (Backwards) Shakespeare is discussed (Marooned) I could go on. I have no problem with recurring jokes or themes if they are funny or interesting but to me they felt tired and cobbled together. Why did the crew travel thousands of miles just for a throwaway gag? Would they really have done that without complaint? And not been at each others throats? Jesus could have been a good subject for an episode but it wasn’t executed very well. I don’t want to be seen as the wave of negativity, I did get some enjoyment out of the episode but to me this was worse than much of series VII,VIII and Back to Earth.
It’s I’d pick the weakest 2 form series 1-6 they would be Meltdown and Emohawk (easily the worst of the 2) and so far while none of the new episodes have been hitting the real high notes yet they have been easily better then those 2 episodes
My least favourite episode is the one where they all talk about things that happened 20 years ago, rather than things that happened yesterday.
> Shakespeare is discussed (Marooned) I don’t really see how that counts. It counts because, like I say, I don’t mind topics coming up again in they are funny or add something, but I felt Marooned did it better and summed up shakespeare as a topic with the “Now” speech and the books being burned – here, the repetition of “fit for a king” and “in a pickle” didn’t seem in the same class – it didn’t need to be revisited and taints the superior material in Marooned in my opinion.
There is a huge amount of material based on repetition and derived from the classic episodes. Medical equipment used for something else (Polymorph) A beam that was used on an object misfunctions and goes wider that expected (Demons and Angels) Cat eats flesh of a human (Tikka to ride) Crew arrive on earth in a wood/forest (Backwards) Shakespeare is discussed (Marooned) I could go on. I have no problem with recurring jokes or themes if they are funny or interesting but to me they felt tired and cobbled together. WOW…….most of that is really superficial, the medical equipment thing reminded me more of the games they described making up while on starbug and fits with the theme of them having to make their own entertainment, secondly the beam in Demons and Angles didn’t go wider then expected, it over loaded Red Dwarf because when reversing the field of the beam cause it to try and duplicate Red Dwarf causing the ship to overload and blow up…….only similarity is a malfunctioning beam which is standard scifi fare, Tikka…….you have a point there because Doug clearly like cannibalism jokes, the forest is the only location they could afford shooting in with their over stretched budget….kinda a non-issue and Shakespeare……..is a very general thing. Honestly most of this just seems some loose connection that is circumstantial at most.
I think just as big a problem is that Doug is basically repeating himself even in this series. Every episode has these running jokes inserted at the start which means everything afterwards becomes so predictable. When `being in a pickle` and `dish fit for a king` were mentioned at the start it was so clumsy that it was blatantly obvious that they were going to be mentioned again later.
There is a huge amount of material based on repetition and derived from the classic episodes. Medical equipment used for something else (Polymorph) A beam that was used on an object misfunctions and goes wider that expected (Demons and Angels) Cat eats flesh of a human (Tikka to ride) Crew arrive on earth in a wood/forest (Backwards) Shakespeare is discussed (Marooned) I could go on. I have no problem with recurring jokes or themes if they are funny or interesting but to me they felt tired and cobbled together. WOW…….most of that is really superficial, the medical equipment thing reminded me more of the games they described making up while on starbug and fits with the theme of them having to make their own entertainment, secondly the beam in Demons and Angles didn’t go wider then expected, it over loaded Red Dwarf because when reversing the field of the beam cause it to try and duplicate Red Dwarf causing the show of overload and blow up…….only similarity is a malfunctioning beam which is standard scifi fare, Tikka…….you have a point there because Doug clearly like cannibalism jokes, the forest is the only location they could afford shooting in with their over stretched budget….kinda a non-issue and Shakespeare……..is a very general thing. Honestly most of this just seems some loose connection the is circumstantial. I see where you are coming from. I am not trying to make a big deal out of the specific things I mentioned. They were just some general examples that sprang to mind while watching it, that it had a feeling of been there and done that. And been done better, before. It didn’t feel new and fresh, thats all i’m saying.
WOW…….most of that is really superficial, the medical equipment thing reminded me more of the games they described making up while on starbug and fits with the theme of them having to make their own entertainment, secondly the beam in Demons and Angles didn’t go wider then expected, it over loaded Red Dwarf because when reversing the field of the beam cause it to try and duplicate Red Dwarf causing the show of overload and blow up…….only similarity is a malfunctioning beam which is standard scifi fare, Tikka…….you have a point there because Doug clearly like cannibalism jokes, the forest is the only location they could afford shooting in with their over stretched budget….kinda a non-issue and Shakespeare……..is a very general thing. Honestly most of this just seems some loose connection the is circumstantial. I see where you are coming from. I am not trying to make a big deal out of the specific things I mentioned. They were just some general examples that sprang to mind while watching it, that it had a feeling of been there and done that. And been done better, before. It didn’t feel new and fresh, thats all i’m saying.
Right then. Viewing number two done with. I just find it a bit ‘meh’, generally for reasons other people have already said. I can see the jokes, but it just doesn’t come together for me. Whher there’s something missing, or just something that I’m just not seeing in it, I don’t know. I’m not too keen on ‘Jesus’, and some of the performances are just…pfft. See of my view changes as I watch during the week, but at the mo, it justill just scrapes a 6/10 from me.
> Putting a show you’ve seen just once in your top 3 is a bit hasty and well, just stupid. Luckily, people are allowed to be hasty, or stupid. Doesn’t mean they’re trolls. Well I think he is after seeing many of his posts in recent weeks so that doesn’t mean he isn’t a troll…..so how do you like them lemons?
Well enjoyed it, im so pleased Red Dwarf has come back. I’m really happy to see Red Dwarf back on our screens as well. I think I just had too high an expectation, that this could be up with the best. Having seen the last couple of weeks I don’t think its going to ever match the hight of 1-6, but I still enjoy seeing the guys on TV again even though I really didn’t like lemons. Trojan 8/10 Fathers and Suns 7/10 Lemons 5/10
> Well I think he is after seeing many of his posts in recent weeks so that doesn’t mean he isn’t a troll…..so how do you like them lemons? Evidently a lot better than you. Who wins?
, secondly the beam in Demons and Angles didn’t go wider then expected, it over loaded Red Dwarf because when reversing the field of the beam cause it to try and duplicate Red Dwarf causing the show of overload and blow up If the beam is projected out not in – is it wider or not? And you talk about me being superficial…
You know, every episode is going to have fall-flat bits I think (the Kochanski shoutout here seemed forced, whereas in Fathers & Suns it seemed natural from a drunken Lister thinking back on what he’s screwed up in life). But overall, still a good series so far. Lots of clever little bits in this one, too – including Cat’s observation “why is everything with you two always about Earth?” a great stab at an old sci-fi time travel convention always landing people back on the home planet, LOL. I like that Lister and Rimmer get on better than they seemed to used to, but like the other commenter who pointed this out, it’s not as if they were blood enemies in the earlier seasons. There are lots of references in their early seasons hearkening back to stuff they did together when Rimmer was alive (i.e., the two women they were hitting on and the “shelf” remark, the bar fight on Miranda, to name a couple) – which means they were socializing together somewhat even though they weren’t limited to just each other. A “friend” doesn’t always have to be your joined-at-the-hip buddy who agrees with you and has everything in common, I guess.
I’m sure he didn’t mean that you yourself are superficial. Just the examples you chose. Fair enough. I take it back. Sorry
, secondly the beam in Demons and Angles didn’t go wider then expected, it over loaded Red Dwarf because when reversing the field of the beam cause it to try and duplicate Red Dwarf causing the show of overload and blow up If the beam is projected out not in – is it wider or not? And you talk about me being superficial… it was projecting out instead of in. Here the beams were stuck cruelty stuck on pointing in a bunch of different directions.
> Well I think he is after seeing many of his posts in recent weeks so that doesn’t mean he isn’t a troll…..so how do you like them lemons? Evidently a lot better than you. Who wins? I do. Better username. Your username is just so generic and nerdy. No offence! ;D
I do. Better username. Your username is just so generic and nerdy. No offence! ;D Damn, your logic is flawless.
I do. Better username. Your username is just so generic and nerdy. No offence! ;D Damn, your logic is flawless. Now please uninstall yourself.
I think just as big a problem is that Doug is basically repeating himself even in this series. Every episode has these running jokes inserted at the start which means everything afterwards becomes so predictable. When `being in a pickle` and `dish fit for a king` were mentioned at the start it was so clumsy that it was blatantly obvious that they were going to be mentioned again later. This. Some of the individual jokes have the punchline hovering over them; but it’s too formulaic this series, with a set-up at the beginning purely for some gags later on. That said, I’m generally happy to let it all wash over me and enjoy it as a pretty good series with a few superb jokes (plus I’ve never been one to get hung up on continuity anyway).
I think just as big a problem is that Doug is basically repeating himself even in this series. Every episode has these running jokes inserted at the start which means everything afterwards becomes so predictable. When `being in a pickle` and `dish fit for a king` were mentioned at the start it was so clumsy that it was blatantly obvious that they were going to be mentioned again later. This. Some of the individual jokes have the punchline hovering over them; but it’s too formulaic this series, with a set-up at the beginning purely for some gags later on. That said, I’m generally happy to let it all wash over me and enjoy it as a pretty good series with a few superb jokes (plus I’ve never been one to get hung up on continuity anyway). Agreed. I think this series has already had some great stories/concepts up there with the best of Dwarf.
>LEMONS BRILLIANT Best so far Finished firebombing Grant Naylor productions long enough to stream it, eh?
You know, every episode is going to have fall-flat bits I think (the Kochanski shoutout here seemed forced, whereas in Fathers & Suns it seemed natural from a drunken Lister thinking back on what he’s screwed up in life). But overall, still a good series so far. Lots of clever little bits in this one, too – including Cat’s observation “why is everything with you two always about Earth?” a great stab at an old sci-fi time travel convention always landing people back on the home planet, LOL. I like that Lister and Rimmer get on better than they seemed to used to, but like the other commenter who pointed this out, it’s not as if they were blood enemies in the earlier seasons. There are lots of references in their early seasons hearkening back to stuff they did together when Rimmer was alive (i.e., the two women they were hitting on and the “shelf” remark, the bar fight on Miranda, to name a couple) – which means they were socializing together somewhat even though they weren’t limited to just each other. A “friend” doesn’t always have to be your joined-at-the-hip buddy who agrees with you and has everything in common, I guess. There’s the obvious point as well that they remain bunkmates even when there is an entire ships worth of bunks.
In my opinion, the episode started out OK, and meeting Jesus was alright up to a point. Then it started to become offensive to me, and I am not easily offended. I am used to Christianity being used as a source of humor, and as a Christian, I can tolerate good-natured pokes at my beliefs. Yes, I am aware that the character “Jesus” in this episode was not THE Jesus; but for a time, we were led to believe that it was. So for 15-20 minutes, we are treated to a goofy, criminal Jesus, and Christianity is assigned blame for most of humankind’s wars. It was good that in the end, Lister placed the blame where it truly belongs: power-hungry humans who want what they want and will use whatever they can to gain the advantage. But at that point, the damage was already done. Before anyone screams “censorship” or some other nonsense, I would never deny someone’s right to create and broadcast a show that may offend, I just question the judgement of those responsible. Would they produce a show that disrespectfully featured the most sacred person of any other World religion? Can you even imagine it: going back in time to meet Mohammed and depicting him in anything but the best possible light? Of course, depicting him in any way is forbidden by Islamic law, and in the UK, you might get sent to jail on a hate speech conviction. Who knows how many protests and riots there might be, even killings over that unlikely event. And why would you want to take a chance of offending 2.1 billion people (referring to Christians here)? It really wasn’t that funny overall, and believe me, I am a huge Red Dwarf fan from way back. After watching this episode I felt as dirty as after seeing a film containing particularly gratuitous sex or violence. I look forward to the next 3 episodes and hope for a return to comedy that I can be comfortable watching with my family present (as were 95% of all the other RD episodes).
This is very interesting, Andy. As an atheist, it’s hard to put myself in your shoes, but I’d have thought that the revelation that “Jesus” isn’t Jesus of Nazareth would be enough to negate your misgivings. Plus the whole “stupid people doing stupid things in your name” made it clear, in my opinion, that Doug’s beef isn’t with God, Jesus or the vast majority of Christians. It’s the same attitude as shown way back in Waiting For God – people using religion as an excuse to be really crappy to each other, rather than there being something inherently wrong with the religion itself. The whole “would you do the same thing about Islam” argument is very tired and moot, though. The UK’s culture is based on Christianity, and although religion is perhaps not as important in everyday life as it used to be, our economy is still based around Christmas, you still have Songs of Praise on the telly every Sunday, and we were all brought up singing hymns and saying the Lord’s Prayer. To base an episode around the doctrine and figureheads of any religion other than Christianity wouldn’t work, because only a handful of the viewers would be familiar with the folklore.
OK, here’s the thing. I don’t think the episode bullied Christians, but I do believe that it teased them a bit so I can – kind of- see where you’re coming from. But essentially, some fictional characters mocked someone who *definitely* wasn’t the son of God. Maybe The 10 Commandments took a beating but, well, they deserve it. Sorry. And the “Why not offend the Muslims instead?” argument isn’t really going to help you, so I’d hold fire on that one.
It was good that in the end, Lister placed the blame where it truly belongs: power-hungry humans who want what they want and will use whatever they can to gain the advantage. I`m not sure that`s entirely how I read it. The opinion that religions have been responsible for countless wars was first made by Rob and Doug in Waiting for God more than 20 years ago…
There is someone claiming this episode is now in their top 3. Clearly trolling, thankfully not many people have taken the bait. Having a positive opinion is “trolling”? God, you’re tiresome. Putting a show you’ve seen just once in your top 3 is a bit hasty and well, just stupid. Jesus, you’re anal. Maybe they meant “Top 3 Red Dwarf X Episodes.”
I think Pete’s right with the word “teased”. I think Doug was being a bit of a wind-up merchant. The discussion about holding his cock, Lister getting him in a headlock, calling him a ‘nob’ – all designed to be slightly shocking, and all very funny. The revelation that it’s not *the* Jesus could serve as saying “haha, got you, you thought I was being really offensive, but I wasn’t!”. Now me personally, I’m slightly disappointed that it *wasn’t* the real Jesus being called a nob. But I think this reveal is necessary – the episode would certainly be harder to defend if it was actually saying that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was a bit of a nob.
> After watching this episode I felt as dirty as after seeing a film containing particularly gratuitous sex or violence. You lucky boy, you.
It was good that in the end, Lister placed the blame where it truly belongs: power-hungry humans who want what they want and will use whatever they can to gain the advantage. I`m not sure that`s entirely how I read it. The opinion that religions have been responsible for countless wars was first made by Rob and Doug in Waiting for God more than 20 years ago… I would argue that countless wars have been fought over countless reasons: land, resources, water/ harbor access, “stuff” in general. Communists (atheists) have certainly killed many millions, often their own people.
OK, here’s the thing. I don’t think the episode bullied Christians, but I do believe that it teased them a bit so I can – kind of- see where you’re coming from. But essentially, some fictional characters mocked someone who *definitely* wasn’t the son of God. Maybe The 10 Commandments took a beating but, well, they deserve it. Sorry. And the “Why not offend the Muslims instead?” argument isn’t really going to help you, so I’d hold fire on that one. For the record, I wasn’t suggesting they SHOULD offend Muslims; rather I was putting the shoe on another foot, so to speak. Just sayin’ it wouldn’t even be considered.. As I said, I was only giving MY feelings about this episode; I wasn’t suggesting it be removed or banned or that you should even feel the same. I am always interested in how others are affected by a situation.
I really can’t see how anything in this episode can be viewed as offensive, though. Perhaps the background story has no personal meaning to you, that’s why you don’t see. And that’s OK with me.
I can understand a Christian family being “uncomfortable” watching it together. And that’s why I’ve been wary of this episode ever since the synopsis was announced. The motives behind it are slightly different to other episodes (and that includes Waiting for God). I don’t really get the nature of religious offence. But I don’t really get religion either. Gah. So much to say, still can’t work out how to say it. Seriously…this episode was a complete mindfuck for me…
> I wasn’t suggesting it be removed or banned or that you should even feel the same. I am always interested in how others are affected by a situation. Right back atcha! ;-). I’ve been waiting for this conversation for the last 24 hours. I’m surprised there hasn’t been a more widespread response like this, really. >The opinion that religions have been responsible for countless wars was first made by Rob and Doug in Waiting for God more than 20 years ago I don’t think it was, really. Waiting For God makes the claim that people use religion as a reason to be crappy to each other. And I think there’s a distinction there. Remove religion and people would still be shit to each other. (see South Park :Go God Go, it’s awesome).
Did anyone else notice that in the last supper scene the “real” Jesus is there at the table sitting next to Lister?
I am a Christian, and I have no problem with Christ being used in Red Dwarf or for religious jokes however I feel it could have been done so much better and in a more balanced way. Christianity being seen in a future history book as a terrible thing which only caused wars seemed one sided and although I was glad the main “Jesus” wasn’t THE Jesus, I wasn’t that happy with the real Jesus being depicted as the brother of Judas either.
Christianity is assigned blame for most of humankind’s wars. It was good that in the end, Lister placed the blame where it truly belongs: power-hungry humans who want what they want and will use whatever they can to gain the advantage. But at that point, the damage was already done. I can’t help but think that you missed the point, at no point was the episode saying Christianity is at blame for all wars but rather this version of Jesus became disillusioned over the fact that people would declare wars in his name. It’s how he saw it after reading a history book that likely told it in a cold and hash way. That is why there is a counter argument by Lister because that was never what the episode was trying to say…..you just misinterpret it.
Did anyone else notice that in the last supper scene the “real” Jesus is there at the table sitting next to Lister? I thought he looked like the “real Jesus” actor at the end, on my second viewing. And next to Lister … so many interesting parallels all around, what with the “twins” theory and the fact Lister gave birth to twins essentially derived entirely from himself in an unusual vessel (a supposedly virgin woman; a man; both uncommon to birth). And that he basically created himself (being his own father, reinforced in the episode just before this, in fact … hmm). And of course there’s the biggie, that he’s been referred to as the creator of the second universe (in a game, but hey) … and that he’s the Cats’ god figure … Good catch.
I wasn’t that happy with the real Jesus being depicted as the brother of Judas either. Isn’t that a real hypothesis, though? Sort of like the one where Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene? It’s not like Doug made it up, is it?
of course there’s the biggie, that he’s been referred to as the creator of the second universe (in a game, but hey) And in a novel. Never expanded on, sadly. I wasn’t that happy with the real Jesus being depicted as the brother of Judas either. Not necessarily him, either. These get-out clauses are handy, huh?
Now me personally, I’m slightly disappointed that it *wasn’t* the real Jesus being called a nob. But I think this reveal is necessary – the episode would certainly be harder to defend if it was actually saying that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was a bit of a nob. I know what you’re saying, but I was a little disappointed with the reveal – for a minute, it seemed like Lister was making a really good point about how Jesus was just a human like anyone else (followed by your own inference as the viewer, if you like, that despite his mortal limitations, he was still able to become who he *became* over the next few years – and if he can improve, so can Lister, so can we all). But as a lapsed Protestant and an agnostic, I’m not sure I have a valid opinion on the outcome. I just know what I was enjoying while it happened. :-) Though, the end reveal did lead to that humorous expression on Chris’s face and the whole Rimmer leg-jiggling and the others ordering him to stay put. Nice.
There’s the obvious point as well that they remain bunkmates even when there is an entire ships worth of bunks. THANK YOU. The one point I forgot was the biggie.
I wasn’t that happy with the real Jesus being depicted as the brother of Judas either. Isn’t that a real hypothesis, though? Sort of like the one where Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene? It’s not like Doug made it up, is it? Yes its a real hypothesis, but I would prefer it was left up to your own mind as to what is true about the real Jesus, rather than go down the route that this idea is true
>Yes its a real hypothesis, but I would prefer it was left up to your own mind as to what is true about the real Jesus, rather than go down the route that this idea is true If it makes you feel better, I don’t think many bought into that idea either.
I am a Christian, and I have no problem with Christ being used in Red Dwarf or for religious jokes however I feel it could have been done so much better and in a more balanced way. Christianity being seen in a future history book as a terrible thing which only caused wars seemed one sided and although I was glad the main “Jesus” wasn’t THE Jesus, I wasn’t that happy with the real Jesus being depicted as the brother of Judas either. I’m a Christian as well and to be honest I am kind of immune to any parody or attack these days. This is the kind of thing the left has been doing for years. Christianity is an easy target. I’d like to see them try and mock other religions like Muslims in the same way – but that would never happen would it? Awesome username btw!
> I can’t help but think that you missed the point, at no point was the episode saying Christianity is at blame for all wars but rather this version of Jesus became disillusioned over the fact that people would declare wars in his name. It’s how he saw it after reading a history book that likely told it in a cold and hash way. That is why there is a counter argument by Lister because that was never what the episode was trying to say…..you just misinterpret it. This.
>I’d like to see them try and mock other religions like Muslims in the same way – but that would never happen would it? I think we’ve experienced this period of time before. Roughly; UK = 5% Muslims, 70% Christians. And if you think Muslims don’t get a rough ride in mainstream culture, then you’re just not paying attention… Incidentally, wouldn’t the fact that “Jesus” was being labelled as the son of God be offensive to Muslims anyway?
>I’d like to see them try and mock other religions like Muslims in the same way – but that would never happen would it? I think we’ve experienced this period of time before. Roughly; UK = 5% Muslims, 70% Christians. And if you think Muslims don’t get a rough ride in mainstream culture, then you’re just not paying attention… Not on the BBC that’s for sure.
>I’d like to see them try and mock other religions like Muslims in the same way – but that would never happen would it? So you’re saying, “Stop offending my religion and offend someone else’s!” :P
>I’d like to see them try and mock other religions like Muslims in the same way – but that would never happen would it? So you’re saying, “Stop offending my religion and offend someone else’s!” :P No I’m not. Obviously you took my comment there literally.
I wasn’t that happy with the real Jesus being depicted as the brother of Judas either. Isn’t that a real hypothesis, though? Sort of like the one where Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene? It’s not like Doug made it up, is it? Yes its a real hypothesis, but I would prefer it was left up to your own mind as to what is true about the real Jesus, rather than go down the route that this idea is true I’m pretty sure Doug Naylor is the last person anyone would look to for serious religious instruction.
Anyone looking to be offended by this episode could easily be. I feel these are the same individuals who would ‘hang’ Louis Walsh from the neck until dead over scripted decisions made on another fictional comedy show. Their grasp on reality knows no beginnings. The episode was a LAUGH!!
Anyone looking to be offended by this episode could easily be. I feel these are the same individuals who would ‘hang’ Louis Walsh from the neck until dead over scripted decisions made on another fictional comedy show. Their grasp on reality knows no beginnings. The episode was a LAUGH!! Really? I can find religious jokes very funny (I love Ricky Gervais’ bible musings) but I didn’t think the episode was a laugh. I really wanted to like it and was not looking to be offended, I just didn’t find it all that great. Still, second watch in a minute and perhaps i’ll change my mind…
Fucking hell, and here’s me thinking I’m the worst user to sign up for this site. No wonder the BBC aren’t interested in the kind of fans that Red Dwarf attracts, if they’re anything like the new members.
Maybe The 10 Commandments took a beating but, well, they deserve it. Sorry. Thing is, Jesus was only saying what he said about the ten commandments to discredit himself. That he happens to be right is by the by. ;)
The whole thing would’ve made the late George Carlin chuckle. Or sue. Either one. So I liked it. A lot. There.
Only just had a chance to watch and I laughed all the way through. An excellent performance by Chris Barrie, the first time this series- IMHO – that the put his all into being Rimmer, and the lovely Craig seemed more natural too. Really surprised by all the negative comments, to me it felt like a well-rounded, if unusual, episode with more depth that the previous two. Feel free to disagree!
Thing is, Jesus was only saying what he said about the ten commandments to discredit himself. That he happens to be right is by the by. ;) This. I’m not gonna get into the religious thing but, I also too saw it as Jesus deliberately arguing the toss for the sake of it in order to try and make himself look bad, he himself probably didn’t believe what he was saying but he was spiting himself.
> to me it felt like a well-rounded, if unusual, episode I really like that it was a bit of a strange one. Dwarf is similar to Who in respect that it can go pretty much anywhere, deal with any subject and as long as they get the classic character interaction right (which they’ve managed quite successfully in all 3 so far) it’s always gonna remain the show you know and love. This is the main reason why it doesn’t matter one jot that the cast and, indeed, characters are older. Dwarf is extremely adaptable, as any truly great sitcom should be, and the characters HAVE developed over time (look at Rimmer and Lister’s interaction now; and it feels naturally right for them to have mellowed against each other).
Finally got to it: http://noiselesschatter.com/2012/10/19/review-red-dwarf-x-episode-3-lemons/ Read if you dare. Now I can finally read all of your comments. And, honestly, I’m looking forward to it.
Red Dwarf was never meant to be a daytime family friendly show. Plenty of kids liked it (myself included) but the target audience was definitely adults. Sex has come up countless times in the past, in quite blatant and confronting ways at times. There has been lots of violence and jabs at religion, see Waiting for God and The Last Day. If this was the real Jesus I can understand getting offended but he wasn’t, and while he was the subject of a sitcom episode Jesus was actually treated well. The main characters all obviously admired him and wanted to look after him even if they didn’t believe he was literally the son of God.
Some ratings for ‘Lemons’ Dave (inc Ja Vu) 21:00 – Red Dwarf X: 1.23m (5.5%) * 58% skew to ABC1 Adults * 5.1 rating in Men 16-34 * 3.7 rating in Adults 16-34 * male skew of 69% within 16-34 demo So am i right in thinking that even though that figures includes the +1 channel, the ratings have actually gone up??
I really hope the next three episodes follow on in a similar vein. The tone of this one just felt like pure Dwarf and that in itself makes it such a joy to watch. Everyone appeared to be very comfortably in character. This to me really feels like the characters we saw in OOT, just a decade and a bit later (in universe). Just Kryten explaining that lemons and potatoes weren’t in Britain made me think “yes, this is what the character is for!” and “he hath risen” felt like exactly the kind of joke he would have made back in the day. We’ve all talked about how the Cat is the best he’s been in god knows how long, arguably being used as well as he ever has been, and Chris feels like a slightly more mellow Rimmer, which makes sense, though some of Rimmer’s problems still shine through which is nice. The only person who feels slightly different to me is Craig but I’m pretty sure that a lot of that is due to his voice changing due to his smoking. I think it’s just removed some of that cheeky chappiness from his voice. Other than that he’s been great.
Has Doug ever actually said the justification for Rimmer ageing? On the Dave weekly podcast he says it’s to stop Lister worrying about his own ageing, falling in line with the original concept of Rimmer being there to keep Lister sane. I think most people thought it was either that or Rimmer being unfortunate enough to be the only hologram who actually aged, which is a funny idea. Nice to hear the justification from Doug though.
>So am i right in thinking that even though that figures includes the +1 channel, the ratings have actually gone up?? It is about 100k above last week.
I havent heard the podcast yet but i totally predicted the notion that Rimmers age was a reprogramming of his light bee to age relative to Lister. So Lister doesnt feel the grumpy old man. Krytens could be that his mechanoid milage is pretty much almost burnt out :) since he was due to expire in LAST DAY.
As a worshipper of the BBC, I find CackThosePants’ comments highly offensive. Yes, agreed. Fucking hell, and here’s me thinking I’m the worst user to sign up for this site. No wonder the BBC aren’t interested in the kind of fans that Red Dwarf attracts, if they’re anything like the new members. “Enjoy the moment, you’re no longer the dumb one.”
I always think with Kryten that his head is made out of rubber so of course he’s going to get a bit wrinkly round the eyes after a while. Especially since replacement heads are hard to come by.
As a worshipper of the BBC, I find CackThosePants’ comments highly offensive. Sorry but I find that comment laughable. Maybe 20 years ago before New Labour came in and turned the Beeb into it’s little left wing bias pro immigration PC lapdog. The only thing I feel the Beeb still excel’s at is it’s documentries. Radio 1 once a national institution is so dumbed down now it’s tragic. Your G&T logo sums up the good old days for me everytime I see it. Fucking hell, and here’s me thinking I’m the worst user to sign up for this site. No wonder the BBC aren’t interested in the kind of fans that Red Dwarf attracts, if they’re anything like the new members. Yeh I’m not the BBC’s cup of tea. I’m not gay, or anti Christian. I proudly fly the Union Jack not the Union Flag. I believe in freedom of speech. Oh and I’m not a pedophile.
As a worshipper of the BBC, I find CackThosePants’ comments highly offensive. Sorry but I find that comment laughable. Maybe 20 years ago before New Labour came in and turned the Beeb into it’s little left wing bias pro immigration PC lapdog. The only thing I feel the Beeb still excel’s at is it’s documentries. Radio 1 once a national institution is so dumbed down now it’s tragic. Your G&T logo sums up the good old days for me everytime I see it. Fucking hell, and here’s me thinking I’m the worst user to sign up for this site. No wonder the BBC aren’t interested in the kind of fans that Red Dwarf attracts, if they’re anything like the new members. Yeh I’m not the BBC’s cup of tea. I’m not gay, or anti Christian. I proudly fly the Union Jack not the Union Flag. I believe in freedom of speech. Oh and I’m not a pedophile. I tried writing a coherent and thought out response to that, but I found it so depressing having to do so that I stopped myself. I will say however that I think you have something of a warped sense of what a freedom of speech entails. Oh, and the Union Flag and the Union Jack are the same thing. One is the name for the other when flown at sea. Are you permanently at sea? What kind of censorship do you think is going on here?
You really have no fucking clue what you’re talking about, do you? New Labour wasn’t even particularly left wing, and the BBC has been accused of being such for decades before they came to power.
It has to be said that G&T is one of the worst possible choices of website for the posting of regurgitated opinions on the BBC from the Daily Mail.
I tried writing a coherent and thought out response to that, but I found it so depressing having to do so that I stopped myself. Please do. Bring it on.
You really have no fucking clue what you’re talking about, do you? New Labour wasn’t even particularly left wing, and the BBC has been accused of being such for decades before they came to power. New Labour wasn’t particulary left wing on the ‘outside’ that much is true – otherwise they would not have been elected. The Beeb made no secret of where it’s heart lies before 1997 but since then it has changed for the worst no doubt about that.
I tried writing a coherent and thought out response to that, but I found it so depressing having to do so that I stopped myself. Please do. Bring it on. Seriously, what’d be the fucking point? It’s exceedingly difficult to make even the most reasonable of argument to the closed minded and frankly I have better things to do with my day than piss into the wind trying to provided you with a potted political history.
It has to be said that G&T is one of the worst possible choices of website for the posting of regurgitated opinions on the BBC from the Daily Mail. I love this. Are you all on the Guardian payroll?
I tried writing a coherent and thought out response to that, but I found it so depressing having to do so that I stopped myself. Please do. Bring it on. Seriously, what’d be the fucking point? It’s exceedingly difficult to make even the most reasonable of argument to the closed minded and frankly I have better things to do with my day than piss into the wind trying to provided you with a potted political history. Yet within minutes of me posting your straight at me. More better things to do indeed.
You really have no fucking clue what you’re talking about, do you? New Labour wasn’t even particularly left wing, and the BBC has been accused of being such for decades before they came to power. New Labour wasn’t particulary left wing out the ‘outside’ that much is true the Beeb made no secret of where it’s heart lies before 1997 but since then it has changed for the worst no doubt about that. So yeh I do have a fucking clue. Do you? Labour tore the heart of it’s socialist ideals out when it abolished clause 4. The end result was a party that wasn’t hugely left wing on the outside and wasn’t hugely left wing on the inside. The Beeb meanwhile has made no secret of its dedication to impartiality, but it has never claimed to be a left wing organisation. That many people that work for it may be left leaning is of no relevance to the core outlook of the corporation.
I tried writing a coherent and thought out response to that, but I found it so depressing having to do so that I stopped myself. Please do. Bring it on. Seriously, what’d be the fucking point? It’s exceedingly difficult to make even the most reasonable of argument to the closed minded and frankly I have better things to do with my day than piss into the wind trying to provided you with a potted political history. Yet within minutes of me posting your straight at me. More better things to do indeed. Well I’m allowed the odd pot shot. I just can’t be dealing with the full 5000 word essay I’d otherwise be writing.
@ Mods. I know that my comments pissed you off about the PC thing. You know it was only suppose to be taken light hearted. Anyway I’m going to leave now. I have been reading this site for nearly ten years and only signed up to comment on the new series. I feel X will get better over time like a fine wine. Take care everyone :D Anyway we’ll have a cuppa of tea and a slice of cake at the DJ next year!
See, for me, accusing the BBC of being left-wing rather than right-wing is just another way of saying “The BBC aren’t cunts”. It’s a compliment, frankly.
Has Doug ever actually said the justification for Rimmer ageing? On the Dave weekly podcast he says it’s to stop Lister worrying about his own ageing, falling in line with the original concept of Rimmer being there to keep Lister sane. I think most people thought it was either that or Rimmer being unfortunate enough to be the only hologram who actually aged, which is a funny idea. Nice to hear the justification from Doug though. He was always shown to age, i.e. Out of Time, Rimmer’s future self has aged
Does this mean that we can admit that Benny Hill is shit, now? *Lie Mode cancelled. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!11111
He was always shown to age, i.e. Out of Time, Rimmer’s future self has aged Yes he’s always aged but I wasn’t sure if Doug had ever shared his thoughts regarding an in-universe explanation for his ageing. Any reasoning I’ve seen has just been speculation and educated-guesses as far as I can remember. Have to say, I think that in this series CB looks the best he’s looked since at least VI. When he came out at the recording we all were commenting on how great he looked. Think he’s slimmed down a bit.
>Excellent review, Phil. I’ve been enjoying these a lot. Thanks Capps! It goes without saying that the G&T coverage has been phenomenal…I haven’t dug into the Dwarfcasts yet since they’re always posted well before I get a chance to watch for myself, and then I end up forgetting to go back. But I will! Re: The Kochanski comment…yeah, I should have mentioned that in my review too. That felt a bit shoe-horned. I would have preferred Lister to say, “We can’t stay here, we’ll screw up the future” or something. Clear, simple, impossible to argue against. Instead we get a reference to a missing character nobody cared about anyway in a way that frames it as the thing we should care about most. Oh well, no biggie. It’s just one line; it’s not like Lister spends the B-plot on the phone trying to get through to her voicemail.
I think the line is supposed to be a response to what Danny says before but there needs to be a bit more of a link between the two lines because with the way it’s written/delivered, it doesn’t sound like a response to Cat but just a randomly inserted line.
Has Doug ever actually said the justification for Rimmer ageing? On the Dave weekly podcast he says it’s to stop Lister worrying about his own ageing, falling in line with the original concept of Rimmer being there to keep Lister sane. I think most people thought it was either that or Rimmer being unfortunate enough to be the only hologram who actually aged, which is a funny idea. Nice to hear the justification from Doug though. Maybe it’s also tied in with the light bee upgrade Legion gave him – that thing seems to have some unique features over other hardlight models? (I actually once read a clever fanfic that had Rimmer aging in 30-year cycles … as in, he’d age to look about 60 or so, then “reset” to his death-age of 30 in appearance and start the process over again, to allow him to live among mortals if he wanted, I guess, in longer-term friendships.)
See, for me, accusing the BBC of being left-wing rather than right-wing is just another way of saying “The BBC aren’t cunts”. It’s a compliment, frankly. This is also true. Shouldn’t you two “Standard Class Plebs” be on the march in London today?
Amusing that three episodes of a sitcom have so far produced discussions on this and the OS based around Labour tearing the heart out of its socialist ideals and whether male babies who lose their genitals can be hormonally transformed into girls. Lovely stuff.
>Maybe as Lister doesn’t appear to voice his need for Kochanski that much but in that moment faced being else where longterm he had to say it and voice his disapproval? If I believed that was the justification for that line, that would be OK. Unfortunately, the reason Lister said that was because “Hey, we haven’t mentioned Kochanski in a while”. There WAS justification for saying it though. Namely, the Cat’s (or was it Rimmer’s) question before. “Can we stay?” or words to that effect. Sometimes, time travel episodes in Red Dwarf are criticised because viewers wonder why the crew wouldn’t rather remain rather than being stuck on a ship three million years in the future in deep space. Here Lister gives a clear answer. And I didn’t really think it was out of nowhere. While they do not make a big thing about dwelling on Kochanski in previous episodes, there are a couple of brief mentions as others have said. She simply isn’t dwelt on because she is not central to the episode in question. And besides, I get the impression that a few weeks, at least, have passed since the events of BtE as far as the Dwarfers are concerned. Maybe the initial drive to find her has waned somewhat in the last two episode, not due to not caring but despondency due to their initial failure. Lister’s little discussion with himself in Fathers and Suns has given him a little kick up the backside to rectify this. Hence, the robotic manual, and his anxiousness to get back to their present. Mind you, I can see plenty of other reasons why they’d not want to stay in the past but I actually liked that little nod towards continuity.
I really enjoyed this episode. Loved the India set and the lighting was very convincing too. I very much believed it was an outdoor location set I tells ya! (even though I know it wasn’t). It’s nice to have these kind of zany, adventurey episodes every now and then. Keeps things fresh and varied, I think. Although some on another forum seem to be focusing on what they perceived as “a whole bunch of rehashed jokes”. Whereas I tend to see them, for the most part as nice little callbacks. Over all I’m really pleased with this series, my only complaints all pretty nit picky really and have already been covered by other’s anyway. And besides, I’m a little tired all the negativity on TOS (and here, albeit to a much lesser degree) to be honest, so I’m through with unintentionally feeding that with my own nitpickyness. Not that I’m slagging the TOS community off as a whole, far from it. I’m a member myself and there are many good peeps there. I was a little concerned at one point that Doug may have been edging into (unintentionally) offensive (for some) territory again what with the ribbing of certain religious issues, But I found myself applauding the way he so beautifully extinguished any potential offence being caused by the way the episode ended (Jesus no.1 not being the “real” Jesus). Although It seems a few may still be offended…I’m not quite sure what to make of that to be honest. But as someone else mentioned earlier, as a non religious person perhaps it’s just difficult for me to fully understand why such things would be taking so seriously considering the ending. Although I suppose Rimmer claiming that Christianity was the reason for most wars was a little below the belt, as that’s technically far from accurate. But hey, that’s Rimmsy for you. What does he know? :)
*Smeg Mode. Indeed he is. 4/10. Cunt Mode would have been better. But maybe you didn’t use that cause your a nice guy? I used to be nice once, then I went right wing. The Red Dwarf Christmas Special that never was. I’d love a Christmas special. I’d like to see how Lister would handle it. Kryten making the Christmas dinner, fucking it up etc. Saying that I suppose you can’t top the presents gags in the ‘Last Day’ sadly.
This was a geat touch. Surprised more people haven’t mentioned it. It will make a great Xmas Card! Mooooooooooooonpig!
>Kryten making the Christmas dinner, fucking it up etc. It writes itself. Cat wearing a green outfit with LED’s which at a distance looks like a Christmas tree. Rimmer dressed as Santa by Holly. Lister has to sit on Rimmer’s knee etc. Then it all goes tits up as they are all chased along the corridors by the Christmas Dinner. Fin. *copyright CackThosePants productions.
Has Doug ever actually said the justification for Rimmer ageing? On the Dave weekly podcast he says it’s to stop Lister worrying about his own ageing, falling in line with the original concept of Rimmer being there to keep Lister sane. I think most people thought it was either that or Rimmer being unfortunate enough to be the only hologram who actually aged, which is a funny idea. Nice to hear the justification from Doug though. Yeah, it’s nice to hear Doug justifying the natural ageing of human actor, Chris Barrie. ;) Seriously though, this is becoming one of my biggest pet peeves of RDX, this and the “canned laughter” bollocks. I genuinely couldn’t give a fuck. Of course he’s aged, what else would a human actor do? So, Rimmer the hologram has aged, he’s a hologram, he can look however he wants, I really don’t need it explaining to me.
Funnily enough, although in ‘Back to Earth’ i thought DJJ was the one who had aged the least, i think Chris Barrie looks the youngest in Series X. DJJ has managed to get all the wrinkles back that he had when he did any kind of facial expression in Series 8. In BtE he looked surprisingly youthful :)
Let’s all discuss whether Chris Barrie is wearing a wig again. He has hair like that, just not on his head.
Yeah, it’s nice to hear Doug justifying the natural ageing of human actor, Chris Barrie. ;) Seriously though, this is becoming one of my biggest pet peeves of RDX, this and the “canned laughter” bollocks. I genuinely couldn’t give a fuck. Of course he’s aged, what else would a human actor do? So, Rimmer the hologram has aged, he’s a hologram, he can look however he wants, I really don’t need it explaining to me. Chris Barrie ageing has never been a problem, nor any of the cast for that matter. It’s annoying when people go OMG HOW CUM DA HOLOGRAM AGED!? MAKES NO SENZ! but it’s quite nice discussing why in-universe a hologram might age, just like it’s fun to discuss why they’ve moved to a new bunkroom or where that new bunkroom might be located on the ship etc. It can be fun to take what’s presented to you and then fill in the gaps with your own little theories and it can be fun to discuss those things. And Doug didn’t need to explain anything to anyone, as I pointed out most people had already made up their own little theories, it was just nice to hear his perspective on what may have happened in his little universe.
> Yeh I’m not the BBC’s cup of tea. I’m not gay, or anti Christian. I proudly fly the Union Jack not the Union Flag. I believe in freedom of speech. Oh and I’m not a pedophile. You do realise that the very fact that you made this statement makes you exactly the kind of person the BBC would like to invite round for tea and scones?
Thanks for the picture Ridley. Hadnt spotted it. Also thanks for posting something about Lemons in this thread about Lemons. It’s refreshing as erm… a lemon.
> Yeh I’m not the BBC’s cup of tea. I’m not gay, or anti Christian. I proudly fly the Union Jack not the Union Flag. I believe in freedom of speech. Oh and I’m not a pedophile. You do realise that the very fact that you made this statement makes you exactly the kind of person the BBC would like to invite round for tea and scones? But surely it will just end up being Nick Griffin on Question Time all over again? Still better get ironing the old Nazi uniform just in case.
Pete Tranter’s Sister : Someone has to say it… I thought Lemons was rubbish. That’s only because part of your antimony is of a peach persuasion leading me to believe blatant ‘fruit envy’ on your part!
Let’s all discuss whether Chris Barrie is wearing a wig again. He has hair like that, just not on his head. With that perma-wave in it and everything?
> Still better get ironing the old Nazi uniform just in case. I KNEW IT! SSSSSSHHHH!!!! I don’t think anyone has noticed. Anyway what’s your address so I can send you some classic racist Benny Hill stuff!
Funnily enough, although in ‘Back to Earth’ i thought DJJ was the one who had aged the least, i think Chris Barrie looks the youngest in Series X. DJJ has managed to get all the wrinkles back that he had when he did any kind of facial expression in Series 8. In BtE he looked surprisingly youthful :) Maybe it’s the eye liner that makes him looks older…..both series X and VIII seemed to apply it in great plenty. That said Danny still looks better then he did in series VIII……as over the top as X’s is, VIII’s wig made him look like the top of his head is deformed. Honestly though Danny hasn’t looked too bad except for a couple of scenes in Fathers and Suns….again I think it’s that eye shadow made his eyes look a bit sunken it.
So when Craig says that 3 of this series are up there with the best, I assume he meant “The Beginning” as one of them. What about the other two?? I have a good feeling about this weeks episode for some reason – has a IV/V vibe about it.
It writes itself. “My groinal socket has a device for stuffing, sirs. Just give me a moment to prepare the balls. … Ah. It appears to be stuck on the spit roast setting.”
So when Craig says that 3 of this series are up there with the best, I assume he meant “The Beginning” as one of them. What about the other two?? I have a good feeling about this weeks episode for some reason – has a IV/V vibe about it. Entangled has been one of the main episodes I’ve been looking forward to, from what little I’ve seen and heard it sounds great, while I have for the most part liked the episodes so far it looks like this week might be first time series X starts hitting the real Red Dwarf high notes. The Begining sounds like it could be even more exciting and Dear Dave sounds promising too, as it would be nice to have a calmer episode in the lineup. Honestly it sounds like the later half of series X could be great.
Every time something new has been released from Entangled I’ve looked forward to it more. Think it could be the best so far. Whilst the Kryten/Cat in unison thing came across in the preview clip as being a bit of a one note joke, I’ve got a feeling that just after that scene something wickedly funny/clever is going to come from the set up.
>Thanks for the picture Ridley. Hadnt spotted it. Same here…that was fucking gorgeous, and perfect. It makes up for the scene of Kryten frantically chasing imaginary stains. Oh hell, I’m feeling generous. It makes up for a lot. I’m surprised I missed that, it’s really a great detail.
Not bad, I enjoyed it more than Fathers and Suns. Would have preferred a more ship-based ep to me honest, but this was still decent.
But surely it will just end up being Nick Griffin on Question Time all over again? Still better get ironing the old Nazi uniform just in case. Yeah… poor old Nick Griffin eh? It’s not his fault that he’s such a massive bigoted cunt.
But surely it will just end up being Nick Griffin on Question Time all over again? Still better get ironing the old Nazi uniform just in case. Yeah… poor old Nick Griffin eh? It’s not his fault that he’s such a massive bigoted cunt. BBC did such a hatchet job on him when they could have simply let him hang himself instead. Gotta love the Beeb’s impartiality policy. Anyway the Beeb is going to get it’s arse kicked this week. *grabs popcorn
This was a geat touch. Surprised more people haven’t mentioned it. It’s so pretty :D I loves it! Praying that TOS will someday make a HQ wallpaper of this available!
“Gotta love the Beeb’s impartiality policy. Anyway the Beeb is going to get it’s arse kicked this week. *grabs popcorn” Why is the BBC going to get its arse kicked this week? Are you on a mission to destroy it?
Praying that TOS will someday make a HQ wallpaper of this available! Cough *screenshot when Blu-Ray comes out* Cough :)
Five years ago, if anyone told me that we’d ever see beautiful shots like that on Red Dwarf again, I’d have raised an eyebrow or three.
they are gorgeous! im just a little saddened we havent seen any interior scenes of the transport vehicles yet.. unless they are all saved for the final episode.
“Gotta love the Beeb’s impartiality policy. Anyway the Beeb is going to get it’s arse kicked this week. *grabs popcorn” Why is the BBC going to get its arse kicked this week? Are you on a mission to destroy it? You don’t watch the news do you? Anyway I’m not on a mission – don’t need to be…..the BBC is doing perfectly fine destroying itself currently.
What I don’t understand is that you seem so keen for it to be destroyed or destroy itself. Were you traumatised by the test card as a child or something?
What I don’t understand is that you seem so keen for it to be destroyed or destroy itself. Were you traumatised by the test card as a child or something? Just sick of paying £150 a year in tax that’s all. Well that’s the main reason anyway. Besides I don’t get all this Beeb love especially since they turned their backs on Dwarf – it was nearly done for good. Imagine if we were left with Series 8 as a swan song???!!! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/loony_moony/2iGNh7_testcardboosh.jpg
Praying that TOS will someday make a HQ wallpaper of this available! Cough *screenshot when Blu-Ray comes out* Cough :) Ah, good point, well made. :o)
Just sick of paying £150 a year in tax that’s all. Well that’s the main reason anyway. It isn’t a tax and you don’t need to pay it if you don’t want the 8 TV channels, multiple radio channels, world service, C4 and essential investment in transmission services. I’m sorry, have I stumbled on the Daily Mail website by accident?
>This. … Is brilliant. As for Lemons, I loved it. I was reminded a little of Life of Brian, though that’s mostly to do with a certain forum topic. :) The “blasphemy” I was warned about turned out to be more a series of gentle pokes with a pom pom slipper compared to just about anything on cable tv these days. The continuity adjustments didn’t bother me at all, but I was irked that Kryten said “an oxen” when oxen is the plural form of ox. Oh well, language evolves. I think I still liked Trojan a bit more, but it’s an awfully close call. Fathers and Suns would be my favorite if it weren’t for, etc. Yes, the Red Dwarf/Star of Bethlehem pic is going on my desktop too. I’m laughing a lot – three cheers for Doug! And I’m looking forward to hearing the DwarfCast and reading Phil’s review tomorrow. Lots to catch up on. Good night, me, and good morning to most of you.
Very confused and disappointed. I’m not usually one for huge dollops of negativity. Although I found series VII patchy, and VIII very hard to defend, I’ve stuck with Dwarf, and will always check out new episodes. I genuinely found “Trojan” and “Fathers & Suns” a very exciting partial return to form, and the first episodes I could recommend to friends and casual fans without embarrassment since the end of series VI. But I found Lemons atrocious. If this was any other TV series, and the episode kept most of the ideas, dialogue, plot etc. and replaced the characters, I would have switched over way before the end. I was only watching because is was Dwarf. What on earth happened here!? The whole thing was practically laugh-free for me (and I’d really laughed in the previous two), very pantomimey, badly written and performed. When the only high-points are a reusing of an old piece of incidental music, and a couple of very brief gorgeous model shots, then something has gone very wrong indeed. I’m a strong atheist, and really enjoy a bit of gentle, or even biting, religious satire (I LOVE Life of Brian for example), but this was so badly done, even compared to examples in previous Dwarf. I watched this, then logged on to this site and the official forum, expecting the forums to be ablaze with negativity, but it’s been very confusing to see how many people liked this. Ok, so no stand-out Taiwan Tony moments to ruin the episode, this time is was the EPISODE that ruined the episode. Joins “Only The Good” and “Pete” in my Red Dwarf sin bin. Worse than most other original TV these days, and a big, big shame. Get some writing help Doug, for Christ’s sake! We love having Red Dwarf back, and thanks for trying so hard, but how this script got through so many stages of editors and commissioners to being made is beyond me. Feels like a bad school production of a Red Dwarf-style pantomime.
Just sick of paying £150 a year in tax that’s all. Well that’s the main reason anyway. It isn’t a tax and you don’t need to pay it if you don’t want the 8 TV channels, multiple radio channels, world service, C4 and essential investment in transmission services. I’m sorry, have I stumbled on the Daily Mail website by accident? I am really really sorry but are you Polly Toynbee?! Daily Mail? Not unless you want to post pictures of me in my bikini and say how good I look then the next day post an essay of how fat I’ve got recently. It’s looking more like the Guardian though – just as well really if rumours are to be believed it’s about to go weekend only, fantastic news! Anyway so Lemons? No Meltdown was it but not bad! *Please throw away those bikini pics…..
In the one location shoot you can really see how cold it was there (being winter and all), Chris Barrie wearing the lightest clothes looks rather cold and miserable in that scene.
> Get some writing help Doug, for Christ’s sake! We love having Red Dwarf back, and thanks for trying so hard, but how this script got through so many stages of editors and commissioners to being made is beyond me. Feels like a bad school production of a Red Dwarf-style pantomime. I disagree. That’s, uh, really all I have to say. So who won this conversation about the BBC?
> So who won this conversation about the BBC? There are more important things to discuss like when I get proof that SoundableObject has deleted those pictures……before he sells them to the Daily Mail – the dirty slut he is!
Has Doug ever actually said the justification for Rimmer ageing? On the Dave weekly podcast he says it’s to stop Lister worrying about his own ageing, falling in line with the original concept of Rimmer being there to keep Lister sane. I think most people thought it was either that or Rimmer being unfortunate enough to be the only hologram who actually aged, which is a funny idea. Nice to hear the justification from Doug though. I thought Doug had said in the run up to Back to earth that Rimmer had aged because he hadn’t done his Necrobic Hologram exercises… Or have i dreamt this up?
You’re not far off. With Holly offline, he’s not getting serviced, or some bollocks. But then, holograms age anyway. That’s already happened.
Doug explains it in the latest Dave podcast. I had guessed his reasoning before hand though as I think it’s pretty obvious if you think about it, as it goes back to the whole point that Holly brought back Rimmer in the first place.
I love dougs justification. It makes sense now why Rimmer did not age at Rimmerworld. :) Its like you can say that kryten has a lot of miles on his clock now. Almost burnt out :)
For me, a comment that was made right at the very start of the Trojan DwarfCast still sums up the series so far: “Series VIII, done correctly.” Series X so far has been much funnier and more coherently plotted than VIII, but the broadness of a lot of the comedy still reminds me most of that series’ tone and approach more than any of the others. Cartoonish things like the crew’s 4000 mile walk and the numerous “-eth-eth-th”s on Jesus’ note were funny, but I’m not sure I like the way that in style they feel closer to VIII than any of the other series. I had a similar feeling with Rimmer’s hand calculator, which like the salutes in VIII went on for too long. (And I say that as someone who’s such a sucker for jokes that cross the line from “OK this is getting tedious now” to “this is going on for so long that it’s somehow becoming funny again” that I actually like Family Guy scenes like the chicken fights and Stewie’s music video!) Didn’t mind the “killed Wallace and Gromit” line, but the eBay reference stuck out. More positively, I liked the “skullet” joke, “he hath risen” and Jesus’ obsession with bags, and enjoyed the central plot idea that the only thing preventing the crew time-travelling back to Red Dwarf was something as mundane as a lemon battery. There were lots of other good lines and moments scattered across the episode, and I have to emphasise that I genuinely enjoyed the episode a lot overall… but so far the Cat’s moose scene from Trojan is still the highlight of the series for me. Anyone notice that when Rimmer mentions that his middle name is Judas, within the audience laughter you could hear some people cheering? Clearly there was a group of fans at the recording who were very pleased at this little bit of continuity fanservice! Fortunately in this case it was fanservice that was relevant to the episode’s storyline, but I think it could be distracting if the audience reacted that way to every continuity nod. (Having said that, watching the episode again on the Dave website, that cheer didn’t sound as prominent as it had on my TV… maybe it’s my bass/treble settings!)
Skullet fell flat for me. It’s a term I’ve heard used to describe bald mullets (such as Hulk Hogan, for example) for years. It felt like a little routine based around a mildly amusing term, but not an original one and therefore it seemed like it was being made the centrepiece of a routine unearned.
Hi all, new member here (well sort of i used to access this site yonks ago but so long now i doubt any would remember so might as well be new) OK let me start by saying i did very much enjoy this ep despite any comments i may make. As a passionate student of history there were some things that seriously jarred including the following (note i am accepting in advance that all these issues can be relatively easily fan-w**ked away but here we go. 1. despite Krytens statement to the contrary in 23 AD you would be seriously hard pressed to find many educated people who believed the world to be flat, this is over 200 years since Ptolemy III gave the hellenistic world both mathematical and physical proofs of the round Earth, proofs which were broadly accepted throughout the hellenistic world, which incidentally includes weatern and central india. 2. The same battery can in fact be made with apples, which had been widely available in europe for nearly 300 years at this point 3. The idea that illness and deformity are caused by demonic possesion was a peculiarity of the judaic family of religions and not a universal belief, For example Julius Ceasers epilepsy, far from being a demonic possession was called the ‘sacred sickness’ and was regarded as a blessing from Appolo, 4. What exactly are a late empire roman Decurion and Snr Legionary doing in India, and at a time when the principate was still barely established, (indeed at this point the Julian family was maintaining its power largely through the pretension of not having any), even without the out of period costume we are still over 120 years from Rome establishing its first official, governmental contact with any of the Indian states. 5. we are 180 years to early for the Yue tribes to be between the Parthians and the Indians, at this point that group is still in what is now the Sinkiang Autonomous region of western China, The Bactrian Kingdom should still be in the map position assigned to the Yue. 6. Since when do pre roman britians speak english, Kryten should have got them to yield all interactions to him on the grounds that English wont arrive in England until at least the 8th century, and even then would be unrecognisable to any of them except maybe himself 7. on a related note, who taught Jesus to read English, as the son of a theif and a prostitute (indicated by the career title ‘the fornicator’) it is highly unlikely to be able to read his own Aramaic tongue, let alone one which in linguistic terms is barely even related to his spoken tongue, before anyone brings up the most obvious point of the high cultural value education is afforded by the jewish faith i feel constrained to point out that “eurasia in 23 AD has not yet developed rabinical judaism and wont have done until he ninth century. Thats just a sampling, as i said nothing that cant be explained away but at the same time not quite up to the standards i would expect from a european educated writer. lastly, while not knowing her personally, i fully commend the friend of the podcaster who suggested the lemon solution, despite my point above it does actually show a person who has bothered to inform themselves beyond the bare minimum taught in modern class rooms cheers Fozzi
Skullet fell flat for me. It’s a term I’ve heard used to describe bald mullets (such as Hulk Hogan, for example) for years. It felt like a little routine based around a mildly amusing term, but not an original one and therefore it seemed like it was being made the centrepiece of a routine unearned. The skullet line should have been funny, problem is that the whole Shakespeare thing seemed really out of character for Rimmer (worst scene in the whole episode). It seems while series X is an improvement it seemed that scenes and a few times in Trojan the characters have done things that seem that slightest bit off. However it’s not the first time the show has done this, remember DNA when Rimmer thought the DNA ship was aliens and was telling them to “Go away”. This seemed to completely contradict his actions in series 1 and 2 where is spent much of the episodes hoping to find aliens to give him a new body.
Kryten should have got them to yield all interactions to him on the grounds that English wont arrive in England until at least the 8th century, and even then would be unrecognisable to any of them except maybe himself Would have been a really boring episode, though.
>As a passionate student of history there were some things that seriously jarred including the following… Well, thank you A. J. P. Taylor.
^ ‘Dumb & Dumber To’ is coming in 2014 I believe. Anyway I hope we see Kryten’s bunk in a future episode and I liked the fact Cat does bugger all towards building the machine – yet complains most! Also what’s with Rimmer’s decor being a different shade in the final scene? Maybe good idea for a future novel would be what happened during those 6 months, hell that could be a series in itself. But obviously I want new stories for XI which I suspect will be announced during the shows 25th anniversary next February. * I wonder if Kryten’s bunk has a cack bowl? Maybe something you can discuss on the live podcast on Friday!
>2. The same battery can in fact be made with apples, which had been widely available in europe for nearly 300 years This week on DAVE. Red Dwarf X. Episode 3. Apples. The crew beem down to a wood in albion 23AD and spend their time just sitting in some trees there waiting for them to grow into the fruit season, They spend their time dicussing the role of Ptolemy III and his effects on the hellenistic world, with hilarious consequences. With Subtitles: Due to enlish not being around until the 8th century.
>2. The same battery can in fact be made with apples, which had been widely available in europe for nearly 300 years. I actually really like this point thank you. It makes their Lemon seeking trek all the more ironic and i find it a slightly funnier fact than britain being famous for copper.
>Let’s Talk About Lemons *ahem* “The lemon (Citrus × limon) is a small evergreen tree native to Asia, and the tree’s ellipsoidal yellow fruit. The fruit’s juice, pulp and peel, especially the zest, are used as foods. The juice of the lemon is about 5% to 6% citric acid, which gives lemons a sour taste. The distinctive sour taste of lemon juice makes it a key ingredient in drinks and foods such as lemonade.” Sorry, but someone had to, just thought I’d get it over with. And Peter, Paul and Mary can speak for them damned selves i think they are very edible
>2. The same battery can in fact be made with apples, which had been widely available in europe for nearly 300 years. I actually really like this point thank you. It makes their Lemon seeking trek all the more ironic and i find it a slightly funnier fact than britain being famous for copper. Cool, like i said I did very much enjoy the regardless. Indeed if this was an American or Australian show i probably would not have raised any of them as sloppy historical referencing is pretty much par for the course in their TV as it is in ours. It is more unusual to see such in European shows who usually only distort history when essential to a plot line rather than just in the hope no-one will notice or because the writer did poor research. Indeed one of Chuck Lorres recent vanity cards makes clear he doesn’t entirely understand the term ‘history’ and he is show runner for one of the most intellectual comedies America has produced in decades (some might say the only intellectual sitcom produced by them in that time)
one minor issue from this thread, some people have refered to an assumption that the crew would have had several months or years after Bte. However doesnt the internal chronology of BtE itself tell us that Series X is set before BtE
American sitcom comedy sucks! An I’m an American! I haven’t seen a good sitcom comedy since “All in the Family” which they stole from the Britts! Almost all the hit shows are English rip offs. And then they do it badly! It pains me to say it nobody does comedy as good as the Britts! I’ll be hung tomorrow for being a Media Traitor!
one minor issue from this thread, some people have refered to an assumption that the crew would have had several months or years after Bte. However doesnt the internal chronology of BtE itself tell us that Series X is set before BtE No, because the assertion is made within the confines of a largely imaginary 21st-century Earth. Dob’t be a gooseberry.
one minor issue from this thread, some people have refered to an assumption that the crew would have had several months or years after Bte. However doesnt the internal chronology of BtE itself tell us that Series X is set before BtE No, because the assertion is made within the confines of a largely imaginary 21st-century Earth. Dob’t be a gooseberry. Ignoring the pejorative comment, on this occassion. You seem to be forgeting that the universe that is imaginary from their perspective is *our* quantum universe. Other than light, all things in the universe are relative, including its fiction
It’s not our universe in Back to Earth. I’ve been to Westminster Bridge, and I’ve never seen the Tyrell Building there. Also, are you saying that The Big Bang Theory is the most intellectual US sitcom in decades? Because it’s not.
It’s not our universe in Back to Earth. I’ve been to Westminster Bridge, and I’ve never seen the Tyrell Building there. Also, are you saying that The Big Bang Theory is the most intellectual US sitcom in decades? Because it’s not. Actually yes I am making that claim, mind you im not denying that this is damning by faint praise :-), there are actually a lot of jokes on Sheldon, Raj and Leonards work boards that you need a reasonably high level of physics and/or chemistry to pick up on. eg on one occasion when Sheldon was being particularly obnoxious Leonard drew the chemical diagram for the compund ‘arsole’ on Sheldons board. Before this show, imo you have to go all the way back to Night Court to get an original and multifaceted comedy made by the US Of course im happy to accept all comments of this nature are entirely my own opinion and you’ll find im not the type who thinks opinions are facts just because I happen to hold them ,
oh as for your first comment, thats a very good point, given that I havent been to ol’ blighty in nearly twenty years I am forced to yield to your expertise on that
There’s easter eggs, sure, but 99% of the show has nothing to do with intellectual comedy – just because the characters are clever, doesn’t mean the jokes are. Not that there’s anything wrong with that in the slightest. But I think it’s daft to dismiss an entire genre from an entire country. Just in the last few years, Arrested Development, Modern Family, The Big C, Bored to Death and Veep have been superb.
There’s easter eggs, sure, but 99% of the show has nothing to do with intellectual comedy – just because the characters are clever, doesn’t mean the jokes are. Not that there’s anything wrong with that in the slightest. But I think it’s daft to dismiss an entire genre from an entire country. Just in the last few years, Arrested Development, Modern Family, The Big C, Bored to Death and Veep have been superb. I agree it isnt very high brow but i consider it in relative terms, unfortunately ‘bored to death’ perfectly sums up my reaction to the shows you listed so i think we will have to just accept we disagree. Note I am also rather harsh on my own countries TV industry, IMO we have an even worse record than the Americans than this, we have made a few decent comedy movies and toons but our TV sitcoms have been ‘aim way below the lowest common denominator’ appaling. The best we can boast is Kath and Kim which essentially just making fun of Bogans (culturally a similar group to what you guys call chavs. The only genuinely funny stuff we’ve been doing in the last few years have been celebrity panel shows similar to QI but without the charisma of a Stephen Fry to host them. I do genuinely wish i felt differently
Did anyone else notice that in the last supper scene the “real” Jesus is there at the table sitting next to Lister? This has been mentioned a few times now. I think a ton of people get The Da Vinci Last Supper gag of the way they are all one side of the table, and I think a few more spotted the actor from the end of the episode, sitting there at the table end, when rewatching, as a nice bit of foreshadowing. But i think there is an extra point to make having googled the original painting just now. That that is Twin Judas sitting there looking on. As its consistent with the position and direction of Judas in the original painting. So mixing the church of Judas stuff into the Da Vinci painting design is the joke I think.
I always felt that Frasier was a pretty smart, intelligent US comedy. When it was at its best, definitely.
>I agree it isnt very high brow but i consider it in relative terms, unfortunately ‘bored to death’ perfectly sums up my reaction to the shows you listed so i think we will have to just accept we disagree. Your point was that The Big Bang Theory was the only “intellectual sitcom” to come out of American comedy in a decade and Ian listed others. There’s no “agree to disagree” because it doesn’t matter whether or not you liked them. It matters whether or not they existed, and last I checked, the things on Ian’s list did indeed exist.
The Big Bang Theory does not qualify as an “intellectual” sitcom just because it features characters who are supposed to be intelligent.
What’s with all The Big Bang Theory hate? It’s one of the few things my family will sit down and watch together.
The most intelligent sitcom ever written? In my opinion, definitely Blackadder. You clearly have never watched Citizen Khan.
>I agree it isnt very high brow but i consider it in relative terms, unfortunately ‘bored to death’ perfectly sums up my reaction to the shows you listed so i think we will have to just accept we disagree. Your point was that The Big Bang Theory was the only “intellectual sitcom” to come out of American comedy in a decade and Ian listed others. There’s no “agree to disagree” because it doesn’t matter whether or not you liked them. It matters whether or not they existed, and last I checked, the things on Ian’s list did indeed exist. please re read my op, challenge me on what i said, not on what you think i meant, I spceifically said *most* intellectual, and then in a parenthesized comment I then said “some might say the only”. Given that I’ve heard and read that comment even from American critics justifies the later, I for myself said the most. I then even specified exactly which jokes I was refering too. I’m actually finding this quite amusing at the moment however starting arguements about ancillary shows was not my real goal here especially mid season
The Big Bang Theory is great. Its humour is not intellectual in the slightest. I have serious problems with The Big Bang Theory, but other people have articulated them much better than I have. I’d link to you something, but Tumblr appears to be down.
I may well have seen some of the criticisms you’re talking about. I’ve generally disagreed with them whenever I have, because they seem to be based on a perception of the show rather than actually, like, watching it week on week.
>I agree it isnt very high brow but i consider it in relative terms, unfortunately ‘bored to death’ perfectly sums up my reaction to the shows you listed so i think we will have to just accept we disagree. Your point was that The Big Bang Theory was the only “intellectual sitcom” to come out of American comedy in a decade and Ian listed others. There’s no “agree to disagree” because it doesn’t matter whether or not you liked them. It matters whether or not they existed, and last I checked, the things on Ian’s list did indeed exist. I did not deny the shows existed i disagreed as to the quality of them, perhaps you would care to explain which rule of debate removes the topic of personal perception of quality from the realm of agreement/disagreement
I tried to edit this in but apparently ran out of deadline time before pressing update. At this point it seems Ian got the general meaning, or at the very least has decided to leave any unclarrified outstanding issues for another time. I am trying to be nice about this as i do like this group, i like most of the ppl, theres only one i seriously dislike and (s)he seems to have kooked out and dissapeared in the last few hours If we want to get into things that do or do not matter, my finding the shows he listed boring ultimately does not matter as to wether he liked them or not or wether he found them intelligent or not. At the same time his finding other shows intelligent ultimately does not matter as to wether I do or not agree that they are. Ultimately when it comes to what a persons opinion actually *is* the only person that is an expert on that is the holder of that opinion. Ian Symes is the ultimate, and indeed the only, expert on the question of “what is the opinion of Ian Symes” Johnathan Capps is the ultimate, and indeed the only, expert on “what is the opinion of Johnathan Capps” You are the ultimate, and indeed the only, expert on “what is Phils opinion” and I am the ultimate, and indeed the only, expert on what is the opinion of Darren Forrester what ultimately does not matter is wether others like or dislike those opinions, that is the very basis of freedom of thought and expression I know a statement like this is often intended as perjorative, in this case it isn’t, but I strongly suggest a reading of Aristotles “on Politics” might be useful for anyone who thinks a different opinion is an attack on them personally. while I’m here I’ll adress a point several have made, (as far as i can see not Phil himself) at no time did i say that I regarded the ‘cleverness’ of the charachters had anything to do with it being intellectual humour, as I said I am specifically refering to the visual gags on the workboards which most are going to miss. You’ll note I did not challenge Ians classification of these gags as ‘easter eggs’. Perfectly resonable description IMO I never suggested it didnt have regular gags, while i have questioned his knowledge i have not challenged Chuck Lorres intellect nor have have i accused him of having some insane desire to destroy his reputation as a profitable TV producer Of course the majority of jokes are aimed at the masses, It is a commercial television show, thats a basic given im not sure why anyone would think pointing that out is some sort of great revelation. Pointing out it has gags aimed at a broad audience as some way of justifying a claim it contains *no* intellectual humour is a very big stretch. It goes no further towards fullfilling the epistemological boundaries of the term ‘proof’ than if I tried to use the fact that the regular cast contains a genuine, bonafide Neural Scientist and a genuine gamer as evidence that the entire cast are geniuses in real life, both are stretches of fairly ridiculous proportions
I am perfectly happy to discuss this further, if people still feel i havent clarrified sufficiently. Last time i hinted this time im going to be clear. At this point i think it would be better to wait till the end of the season or at the very least take this to a different thread so that those who really arent interested in this sidethread dont have to wade through even more of it to find discussion of the main topic
Big Bang Theory is shit. KTHXBYE It isn’t shit. It’s okay. It’s just not the gold standard of comedy on TV. Not when you’ve got things like Cheers and Roseanne and old Norman Lear sitcoms and Barney Miller and such to look back through.
It’s okay. Chewing gum for the eyes. I watched the first three seasons and nothing since but it doesn’t offend me.
It’s okay. Chewing gum for the eyes. I watched the first three seasons and nothing since but it doesn’t offend me.
