DwarfCast 45 – Series X Semi Retrospective Byte Two DwarfCasts Posted by Jonathan Capps on 10th December 2012, 13:35 Subscribe to DwarfCasts: RSS • iTunes Team G&T has once again assembled in order to talk at length about Series X, in Byte Two of our semi-retrospective. Join Ian, John, Tanya, Danny and Cappsy as we talk the living shit out of Entangled, Dear Dave, The Beginning, Model Shots and what Doug Naylor should be doing with his career, all in our own inimitable ‘based-on-watching-show armchair production physiology’ style. DwarfCast 45 – Series X Semi-Retrospective Byte Two (85.7MB) While we’ll be continuing with the Series X coverage in written form in the coming weeks, this is just about it for our audio-based stuff, until we get round to doing commentaries on X further down the line. However, with a bit of luck and prevailing wind, we’ll be doing our best to keep a regular stream of DwarfCast commentaries in your feeds. Stay tuned or, I swear to God, we will hunt you down and destroy you.
Well done, guys. Some stuff I agree with, some I don’t, but all points well made and succinctly put. Though I spent a lot of the time I was listening to this wondering where our bastard of a cat was, only then to realise it was on the ‘cast. (Our cat wasn’t, obviously. You know what I mean.)
I couldn’t get near a PC but I’ve streamed it from my phone and I’ve probably used up my data allowance. But it was worth it and I love you. I enjoyed your reservations which I was either not aware of or swept under the carpet of my mind. Do any of you listen to Mark Kermode on five live at all? ‘I enjoyed that.’ ‘No you didn’t, and here’s why!’
I like Dear Dave :( The end was fine, to me. Would “what a cow” have been a better phrasing? I just think the joke is that he’s built her up to be this perfect girlfriend/mother and that as soon as he finds out she’s cheated on her he reverts to a bitter one-of-the-lads. I know guys who are like that. They’re not women-haters or anything, they’re just hypocrites when they have to face reality. I’m not sure where I’m going with this. Basically, I found the episode fine. On the other hand, I hate Disentangled now. I’ve watched my DVD many times and always skip that one.
Apologies for the cat. And the aeroplanes. And John’s voice. I live in a very noisy house, basically. Just be grateful you can’t really make out the insane woman next door who started screaming halfway through the podcast.
If everyone goes to iTunes and gives us a review we’ll make sure we remove the cat’s bell before recording the next batch of DwarfCasts. If you don’t, then we’re attaching tiny symbols to her feet.
you can’t really make out the insane woman next door who started screaming halfway through the podcast. That’s a shame.
Apologies for the cat. And the aeroplanes. And John’s voice. I live in a very noisy house, basically. Just be grateful you can’t really make out the insane woman next door who started screaming halfway through the podcast. Next door … surrrrre … no reason … “ROLLER COASTER! … OF LOOVVVVEEEE …”
I like Dear Dave :( The end was fine, to me. Would “what a cow” have been a better phrasing? I just think the joke is that he’s built her up to be this perfect girlfriend/mother and that as soon as he finds out she’s cheated on her he reverts to a bitter one-of-the-lads. I know guys who are like that. They’re not women-haters or anything, they’re just hypocrites when they have to face reality. I’m not sure where I’m going with this. Basically, I found the episode fine. On the other hand, I hate Disentangled now. I’ve watched my DVD many times and always skip that one. I’ve watched Entangled twice and while I like some of the stuff, it does put me off overall. Maybe part of it’s the forced KOCHANSKI! incantation; I don’t know. I’m not wild about the scene where they unlock the nut-warmer, either – maybe if it hadn’t had the “throwing the Ring into Mount Doom” music over it, it would’ve been OK (one of the very few poor musical choices in RD, just IMO).
Have decided that there’s one quite good episode (Trojan), two episodes that aren’t great but aren’t awful (Lemons, The Beginning), one that is very nearly shit (Fathers and Suns) and two that are absolute shit (Entangled, Dear Dave). I don’t really agree with the assertion that Doug has plenty of ideas in the bank. Or rather, I’d add the caveat that while he has plenty of ideas in the bank, very few of them are befitting of a show that gave us justice world, a terraformed moon, a bodyswap, echoes from the future and, hell, even an intelligent virus. When the synopses were released, Entangled was the one I looked at an though “Yes!, that sounds Dwarfy”. And it is, if you remove any semblance of logic, humour and decent story structure. I feel I’m hurting your iTunes ratings by simply listening through the site, by the way. Rest assured, it’s number one in my heart. Well, top five, anyway.
I always thought Rimmer’s mom addressing letters to him as Rear Admiral Lieutenant General was a knowing reference to his lying about passing exams, etc. – a motherly way of calling his bluff and shaming him into coming clean. Ironically, Rimmer doesn’t get that she knows. ‘Cause he’s thick, and stuff.
I always thought Rimmer’s mom addressing letters to him as Rear Admiral Lieutenant General was a knowing reference to his lying about passing exams, etc. – a motherly way of calling his bluff and shaming him into coming clean. Ironically, Rimmer doesn’t get that she knows. ‘Cause he’s thick, and stuff. Ooh, I like! *adds to head canon
I always thought Rimmer’s mom addressing letters to him as Rear Admiral Lieutenant General was a knowing reference to his lying about passing exams, etc. – a motherly way of calling his bluff and shaming him into coming clean. Ironically, Rimmer doesn’t get that she knows. ‘Cause he’s thick, and stuff. Lister: Rimmer, you *do* realise those words are in quotes… Rimmer: They always are, Lister, what’s your point?
Apologies for the cat. And the aeroplanes. And John’s voice. I live in a very noisy house, basically. Just be grateful you can’t really make out the insane woman next door who started screaming halfway through the podcast. why apologise for the moggy, seems to me a cat is a perfect guest walk through for a dwarf podcast :-)
whose to say Rimmers mum knew that rimmers step dad was goin to tell rimmer this in the holo lamp? infact whose to say rimmers step dad even revealed he knew rimmer wasnt his son to rimmers mum. in general i don’t understand why if he knew rimmer wasnt his son why did he bring him up as his own? i mean he knew rimmers mum was foolin around it seems, infact why wait till rimmer become an officer?
in general i don’t understand why if he knew rimmer wasnt his son why did he bring him up as his own? Really? You don’t know anyone that’s been brought up by anyone other than their biological parents?
in general i don’t understand why if he knew rimmer wasnt his son why did he bring him up as his own? Really? You don’t know anyone that’s been brought up by anyone other than their biological parents? I believe the point is, why do it knowingly and then kick the kid in the nuts when he’s an adult? “Naturally, I won’t be sending you any more birthday presents” seems the sentiment of someone who would resent spending the money to raise the kid in the first place. Of course, I think the old man didn’t know until Arnold was at least an older teenager anyway, but YMMV.
Given what we know about mrs Rimmer can we assume any of them are Mr Rimmers ? Hell, my headcanon before this was that all of them EXCEPT Rimmer were other men’s children.
There should be a poll for what people think should have been last line of ‘Dear Dave’. Obviously, the original is still an option. I wonder if they could have got away with ‘What an absolute *bleep*’ Bleeps are always funny to me… Another way of doing it might be Lister spouting one word, e.g. ‘Bollocks’, ‘Shit’, ‘Crap’.
in general i don’t understand why if he knew rimmer wasnt his son why did he bring him up as his own? Really? You don’t know anyone that’s been brought up by anyone other than their biological parents? I believe the point is, why do it knowingly and then kick the kid in the nuts when he’s an adult? “Naturally, I won’t be sending you any more birthday presents” seems the sentiment of someone who would resent spending the money to raise the kid in the first place. Of course, I think the old man didn’t know until Arnold was at least an older teenager anyway, but YMMV. I suppose you could argue that it takes someone unusually vindictive to bring up a child telling them constantly that the only measure of worth is getting into the Space Corps and becoming an officer, then when they’ve finally achieved this, sending them a message rejecting them anyway. Basically, Rimmer couldn’t win. Given what we know about his family, I don’t find this impossible to believe.
I believe the point is, why do it knowingly and then kick the kid in the nuts when he’s an adult? Because all available evidence in the show thus far has shown that Rimmer Sr is an utterly abhorrent human being.
to begin I very much enjoyed both parts of this cast. Finally got to see ‘the beginning’ def my fav of the series (yeah i know join the club), indeed i think the best ep post series 6 period, also agreed with entangled and dear dave, in both Danny had scenes that helped to improve drastically though, the ‘finger wetter’ routine had me laughing so much i had to pause the playback my final rankings for the series 1) The Beginning, 2) Fathers and Suns, 3) Trojan, 4) Lemons, 5) Dear Dave, 6) Entangled with 4 and better all being in the ‘good to brilliant’ category IMO
My thoughts on Red Dwarf X are so complex but hey, let’s try and be simple. I love Fathers & Suns. Warts and all. The Beginning and Lemons are also both very good. Trojan is very funny but the story feels like a bit of a missed opportunity which takes away from my enjoyment somewhat. Entangled I really like and the ERRA explanation in Blue Midget is one of my favourite scenes in the series but I don’t think there are any good laughs after that (except for the amazing final line) and it’s not particularly exciting plot-wise either. Dear Dave I enjoy and it makes me laugh a fair bit but it’s definitely the weakest of the series, though with me that isn’t such a damning statement as I do actually enjoy all the episodes to an extent. It’s weird because I really do enjoy Series X but I watched The Inquisitor yesterday, after watching nothing but X since it’s release, and was blown away by it. As John says, those old series do just feel effortless. Jokes are effortlessly hung on the plot rather than plots or scenes being hung on the jokes. I don’t think that makes X pointless though. It’s enjoyable albeit different and I think I’ll still be coming back to these new episodes in a few years time. This is the best series since VI for sure. Looking forward to seeing what Doug can come up with for XI. I really think that if some of the production problems are resolved and Doug gets more time to focus on the writing (as in, he doesn’t direct) we could even see a notable improvement on X.
I believe the point is, why do it knowingly and then kick the kid in the nuts when he’s an adult? Because all available evidence in the show thus far has shown that Rimmer Sr is an utterly abhorrent human being. Yeah, but I think what’s at issue here is, is he a CHEAP abhorrent bastard or not? ;-) Too, if little Arnie is considered that stupid and talentless, would Old Rimmer really want everybody else thinking it’s his kid, reflecting on him, if he knew otherwise?
the whole logic in the Rimmers dad thing is abit messed up to say the least. i mean you could say well its not messed up its just not explained, but i have to say i wish doug had just left it alone because originally we had Rimmer with a strict militaristic father who pushed his kids to hard to become what he failed to become but its now become this thing where Old Rimmer raised a kid who wasn’t his and is apparently the demon holding Rimmer back from succeeding but at the same time is most likely what pushed him to try and succeed while he is mean’t to be the cold hearted person who just tells Rimmer he isn’t his son in a cold hearted way but at the same time he waited till he become an office when it would least matter and affect him even if you are happy with it i think its like taking a simple layout and making it more complicated then it should be
Some really interesting points made in this Semi Retrospective that I can’t really disagree with. I also really love the ideas Tanya and John have for Dear Dave. I still like the episode (definitely prefer it to Lemons, which is still my least favourite of the series) but I would liked to have seen what they said actually happen in the episode. I’d also really love for Doug to just concentrate on writing, when (or if) Series XI happens. If not Ed Bye, then I’d certainly love to see Andy De Emmony back. Sorry, I know I’m just pretty much saying everything that’s been said on the Dwarfcast.
As all the evidence we’ve been given is that the society on Io in which Rimmer was brought up closely mirrors that of 1950s Britain, I think it’s more than plausible that Rimmer Sr suspected Arnold wasn’t his, but brought him up in order to keep up appearances. To separate from his wife (or to give up one of his sons for adoption) would have exposed the family and himself to social stigma, possibly threatening the chance of any of his sons becoming an officer. After all, Rimmer’s rant against Todhunter in series 1 hints that his family is aspirational middle-class, and that Todhunter is upper class, so benefited from a top-quality education, which Rimmer didn’t have. Rimmer Sr would have wanted to bask in the reflected glory of Rimmer becoming an officer, but will have been enough of a vindictive bastard to cut the parental tie once Rimmer had made the family proud. Rimmer Sr could then strut about Io taking the credit, but without having to fulfil any parental responsibilities. It’s a great backstory, which is why I’m so pissed off that Doug chucked Howard in, because it means that the backstory begins not to make as much sense; hence the large volume of fan discussion about it. Beforehand, Rimmer’s story was straightforward and easily identifiable with, and the reveal would still make sense, but without Howard. It’s like Doug was thinking about two different stories for Rimmer; one, proving that it doesn’t matter who your parents are, as Rimmer’s brothers all had different fates, and two, which proves that it DOES matter who your parents are, because Rimmer was the son of a manual labourer. I’d actually prefer the first one; and a proper plot to hang it on.
I believe the point is, why do it knowingly and then kick the kid in the nuts when he’s an adult? Because all available evidence in the show thus far has shown that Rimmer Sr is an utterly abhorrent human being. Interesting… I’ve been thinking about it from a completely different angle. Perhaps I’m giving him too much credit , but I figured that Lecturer Rimmer always thought he was doing what was best for the Rimmer boys. Obviously, I think he was far too harsh on them, but in his warped mind he thought that being the tallest, smartest, highest ranking was what was best for them. Happiness isn’t on his radar as a measure of success, probably because he wasn’t. Mrs Rimmer was clearly unhappy too, running around shagging other men, perhaps Lecturer Rimmer knew he wasn’t the father of any of the boys, but he accepted them as his own as socially it would have been a display of his virility and manliness to have four sons – another measure of success in his eyes. Telling Rimmer that his father was actually Dungo, only once he’s become an officer, seems to me to have been a warped attempt at kindness. In Lecturer Rimmer’s eyes being the Gardener’s son would have been horrific, he thought that by protecting Rimmer from that knowledge he helped him reach success in life, then once he became an officer his work was over.
> I think he was far too harsh on them, but in his warped mind he thought that being the tallest, smartest, highest ranking was what was best for them. I thought this exactly.
As all the evidence we’ve been given is that the society on Io in which Rimmer was brought up closely mirrors that of 1950s Britain This is my favourite bit of fan-theorising in AGES.
>This is my favourite bit of fan-theorising in AGES. Including the “Chris Barrie is/isn’t wearing a wig, dammit!” theorising? Wow.
I believe the point is, why do it knowingly and then kick the kid in the nuts when he’s an adult? Because all available evidence in the show thus far has shown that Rimmer Sr is an utterly abhorrent human being. Interesting… I’ve been thinking about it from a completely different angle. Perhaps I’m giving him too much credit , but I figured that Lecturer Rimmer always thought he was doing what was best for the Rimmer boys. Obviously, I think he was far too harsh on them, but in his warped mind he thought that being the tallest, smartest, highest ranking was what was best for them. Happiness isn’t on his radar as a measure of success, probably because he wasn’t. Mrs Rimmer was clearly unhappy too, running around shagging other men, perhaps Lecturer Rimmer knew he wasn’t the father of any of the boys, but he accepted them as his own as socially it would have been a display of his virility and manliness to have four sons – another measure of success in his eyes. Telling Rimmer that his father was actually Dungo, only once he’s become an officer, seems to me to have been a warped attempt at kindness. In Lecturer Rimmer’s eyes being the Gardener’s son would have been horrific, he thought that by protecting Rimmer from that knowledge he helped him reach success in life, then once he became an officer his work was over. I also think this is completely sound. Whatever Rimmer Sr’s motives were, he was clearly one for ‘keeping up appearances’.
>This is my favourite bit of fan-theorising in AGES. Including the “Chris Barrie is/isn’t wearing a wig, dammit!” theorising? Wow. I really don’t think it is. Check out the messy hair in the rehearsal photos in SFX. That looks to be real hair (in fact, he looks a lot like the messy Rimmer of TFTM in Series 2; like, no aging at all from a distance). And before the bitching commences, if some of you can go on about model shots, some of us can go on about hair. And I didn’t even bring it up this time. :-P
>I really don’t think it is. Check out the messy hair in the rehearsal photos in SFX. That looks to be real hair (in fact, he looks a lot like the messy Rimmer of TFTM in Series 2; like, no aging at all from a distance). Are you for real? It’s a wig. End of.
No, I agree with Annie. In rehearsal scenes in “We’re Smegged” his hair’s already longer. Why would he bother wearing a wig then?
>I really don’t think it is. Check out the messy hair in the rehearsal photos in SFX. That looks to be real hair (in fact, he looks a lot like the messy Rimmer of TFTM in Series 2; like, no aging at all from a distance). Are you for real? It’s a wig. End of. No, I’m a hologram. Skutters are typing for me …
I ask because I thought this (insert adjective here) topic had been resolved two months ago. Photo from October 2012 in costume: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/oct/04/red-dwarf-x-smegging-goods Video from October 2012, out of costume: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/a410285/red-dwarf-x-red-carpet-premiere-cast-name-favourite-moments-video.html
How do I put this? Skilled hairdressers can work miracles with hair products to make an actor’s hair look fuller without the need for a wig. Obviously only Chris and RDX’s hairdressers know whether that’s the case. Of course it’s not important, hence why Annie and I only commented on it after someone else brought it up again. If you believe he’s wearing a wig, fine. I’m not going to try to change your mind. :)
Did you watch the video? Chris is sporting a number 2 in it, despite it being shot hours after the photo shoot so there’s hardly any hair to work with! Yes, you can apply thickening products and whatnot, but not to the extent that would be needed for the two different styles he’s sporting in the same day.
I did watch the video and all I can say is, I don’t know enough about hairdressing to be able to say one way or the other. Chris obviously doesn’t care, given the virtual crewcut he usually sports. Maybe we should take a leaf out of his book. ;)
But you’ve remarked that we should look at his haircut in “We’re Smegged” and, yes, we see his non-Rimmer haircut back in December 2011. But we also see his non-Rimmer haircut in October 2012, and they’re completely different. And yet his Rimmer “haircuts” in December 2011 and October 2012 are completely identical. His real hair length is obviously not playing any part in this whatsoever! :-) Rimmer has a hair-style. But you can’t really style a number 2 cut into anything. I speak from experience. I think he looks great with it trimmed down,btw. And nothing wrong with sporting a wig for a role. Worked for Connery back in the day.
Well, being female and not follically challenged, I can’t claim to be an expert here. Maybe they did put in a few extensions as opposed to a full wig. Obviously it’s nothing to be embarrassed about. But I suspect the only way we’ll know for sure is if someone asks him at DJ. :)
I think he looks great with it trimmed down,btw. And nothing wrong with sporting a wig for a role. Worked for Connery back in the day. Very true. Connery seems to do just as well without hair, too. ;-)
I dun read on Twitter that y’all gone dun another DwarfCast. But it’s all hidden-like. What in tarnation is goin on?
We’ve recorded a fresh batch, but not posted any just yet – one of them is a Christmas special, though, and you’ll be able to listen to it on or slightly before the 25th.
