DwarfCast 76 – Entangled Commentary DwarfCasts Posted by Ian Symes on 28th August 2016, 19:49 Subscribe to DwarfCasts: RSS • iTunes By a remarkable coincidence, our run of Series X commentaries continues with Entangled. Join Cappsy, Ian, John, Tanya and TORDFC’s Jo Sharples as we discuss such topics as Chris Barrie’s status as an attractive man, a particularly obscure Doctor Dwarf moment, burnt tea, whether it’s better to kill a chimp or a woman, and shoving spoons up one’s arse. Plus, considering this was recorded months ago, some remarkably prescient comments about the release schedule of trailers, and Britain’s relationship with the European Union. But wait! There’s more. At the end of a particularly busy week of Red Dwarf XI news, Ian and Danny provide a fairly waffley round-up of all the little bits we’ve noticed, including a deeper look at the shots from the teaser that didn’t make it into the full trailer. DwarfCast 76 – Entangled Commentary (51.1MB) And if you’re listening to the news section right now, here are the screengrabs, as promised: And here’s the trailer variant: And the “scents of humour” Dave promo:
Kryten’s red outfit looks ludicrous. I love it. > But wait! There’s more. If I download the DwarfCast today do I get a 56 piece refill set absolutely free!?? And if I stab a can of pop with it it’ll still work?
Really good listen as usual guys. I’ve never gotten why people rave about Cassandra being the best/only good episode of VIII. Of course it’s another one in which Rimmer has an inappropriate reaction to somebody dying right in front of him. Oh, and Craig Charles is lush, even now. Yes I like a bit of rough.
I think the point of Professor E being attracted to Rimmer was that he’s a bad person and she has terrible judgement, not that he’s unattractive.
That Kryten clip is from the episode I saw filmed (am I allowed to confirm?). That “let’s hear it for the universe” set is mostly CG, the console isn’t. Also, that’s probably my favourite Cat costume that we’ve seen for this series. Great podcast as usual.
I think the point of Professor E being attracted to Rimmer was that he’s a bad person and she has terrible judgement, not that he’s unattractive. That’s what I took from that as well which gave the gag more credibility then if it were just “hur hur Rimmer is ugly, get it”
Yeah, but my point was that being attracted to him *at first glance* isn’t a sign of stupidity, or of doing the opposite to the norm. As it’s his personality that’s the unattractive bit, rather than his looks, she should have only warmed to him after getting to know him.
My though again it was less even about being stupid but rather her natural instincts are by default wrong.
Yeah. Seems obvious that it is her natural instincts. Hence why she thinks Lister would be absolutely brilliant on the guitar.
The most frustrating episode of, possibly, ANY series… It had the potential to be the best since VI, but that was well and truly blown…majorly due to production issues, but also the sheer crap-ness of the rewrite…oh woe is life! If there’s anything as bad as the 2nd half of Entanglement, in XI, I just don’t know what I’ll do…….. it can’t be possible, surely?
In my opinion Entangled is possibly the worst episode of Red Dwarf ever, though upon watching some of Red Dwarf VIII and parts of BTE I could be tempted to revise that opinion. It’s like something you do with your friends in Drama and you think it’s hilarious, has depth and a bulletproof plot but from the outside it’s just shite. I imagine it could have been really good given the love it deserved, but what we got – deary me. Professor E, awful (material I’m sure), the scene that lasts what seems like half the episode where they just play opposites, awful, the Poundland cock bomb, awful. Watching the documentary too with all the chimp stuff, Christ. What a mess. Also based on my (admittedly ground floor, first floor at best) knowledge of Quantum Entanglement, I don’t think anything in this is possible. I know this isn’t a documentary but I like that Red Dwarf is at least usually in the same postcode as a scientific concept.
The entangled logic is abit all over the place, the beggs choking at the same time was ridiculous and while you could explain it with the coincidence thing doug pretty much waved that away in the next scene And the way they got rid of Professor E at the end always bothers me, she trips and falls sideways in the airlock, i know its a comedy but we ain’t meant to laugh at desperate measures of the writing
I don’t understand all the dislike for this episode I thought it was one of the better episodes of Series X. They had to do a last minute change to the script and did the best they could with it. No way was it one of the worst episodes of the entire Series. No where near. Just wondering why the Red Dwarf XI video links are here when it’s about Entangled? I would have never found these if I hadn’t been interested in the views of Entangled by the way. The Kryten mask is looking great. No worries at all.
Glad that it was stated in the commentary that the first 20 mins were actually quite enjoyable as that what I felt when watching back. Also agree that having an antagonist running round trying to kill them then falling over the health and safety forms instead would have been a lot more satisfying. I’d never really thought about Rimmer’s little shimmy before, very odd!
Just wondering why the Red Dwarf XI video links are here when it’s about Entangled? I would have never found these if I hadn’t been interested in the views of Entangled by the way. The Kryten mask is looking great. No worries at all. This run of weekly commentaries also contains the latest Series XI news, but I ought to make that clearly in the write-up, admittedly.
Just wondering why the Red Dwarf XI video links are here when it’s about Entangled? I would have never found these if I hadn’t been interested in the views of Entangled by the way. The Kryten mask is looking great. No worries at all. This run of weekly commentaries also contains the latest Series XI news, but I ought to make that clearly in the write-up, admittedly. Ah I’ve been missing this all along. I don’t always get to the commentaries. Glad I know now
I think it would’ve been better if, instead of an airlock, Irene gets hit with the beam from her forgotten evolution machine and is turned into pure energy. Strikes me as a being kinder than just shoving her out the door and flushing her down the bog. I remember Andrew Ellard saying that was a suggestion he made to Doug during production.
I think the context saves the end of Entangled personally. X gives the very strong impression that since returning to Red Dwarf, not very much happens anymore – they’re all being slowly bored to death and rarely bump into anyone or anything. A running gag seems to be how disenchanted and blase they are about everything – from having to walk across the earth to Hoguey the Roguey, and their stony-faced reaction to Irene’s death fits in enough with the sick-to-death tone that it never strikes me as a bit off as it clearly does to a undeniable majority of you. By this point the crew know that all good things go wrong for them, so I never took it as them not caring about Irene, more than they don’t actually care about anything that happens anymore. All that said, the possible alternate ending mentioned above is so obviously better that it’s going to stick in my craw for ages now. And if she’d been a hologram to start with it would have solved a lot of the potential problems in one go (it’d have clashed with Trojan but I’d rather have had a human Howard Rimmer and a hologram Irene), or maybe she could have been the ship’s CPU or interface, like an unhelpful Microsoft Office assistant. Thr crew meeting an actual, viably surviving human in space is something that can’t afford to be wasted, and I’ll concede it pretty much is. I do like Entangled though, it’s still probably my second favourite of X.
The last ten minutes of Entangled are pretty much the most infuriating in the whole show, because I absolutely love the first twenty. For me it’s almost spot on perfect. Kryten’s long speech about ERRA followed by his ‘no’ is an absolutely classic Dwarf gag, and the fast pace reminded me of V and VI. The entanglement didn’t remind me of the luck virus because it killed the BEGGs which was, at the time, a bad thing as it lost Lister’s chance to get out of the explodapants (although I agree Doug’s re-writing of the concept in the following scene is a pain). The actual plot only has the vaguest of links to actual quantum entanglement, but then this is the same show in which time running backwards would cause people to advertise jobs with great demotion prospects. Despite what some people say, the science has always been pretty questionable in the show. But as soon as they arrive at ERRA it all falls apart. Rimmer saying he feels right there is really cringe-worthy, the idea of him sensing an air of incompetence about the place, almost cartoon-like. And all the Irene stuff is terrible. There aren’t many strong female characters in the show, but if that’s the case, at least show them like the Psirens hallucinations and make their one-dimensional nature down to the weakness of the male characters rather than literally making them a joke. Despite this, I think it’s probably still my favourite in series X, just because the first 20 minutes work the best for me.
At the end of the day they had to change the script at the last minute so they did the best they could with the last minute adjustment so the criticism is unfair. I still think it’s in the top 3 in Red Dwarf X
At the end of the day they had to change the script at the last minute so they did the best they could with the last minute adjustment so the criticism is unfair. I think this kind of attitude is really patronising to Doug Naylor. It’s his JOB to solve problems by writing around production issues. You can hear RTD speak about this kind of thing at length in The Writer’s Tale. If he doesn’t manage it well enough, he deserves criticism for it. Doug’s worked in TV for decades, and he’s a professional. He can take it. He doesn’t need kid gloves.
If only TV shows had a role where someone could “manage” the production to prevent these last minute issues and thus stop this unfair criticism. They could call them “Productioners” or something.
At the end of the day they had to change the script at the last minute so they did the best they could with the last minute adjustment so the criticism is unfair. I think this kind of attitude is really patronising to Doug Naylor. It’s his JOB to solve problems by writing around production issues. You can hear RTD speak about this kind of thing at length in The Writer’s Tale. If he doesn’t manage it well enough, he deserves criticism for it. Doug’s worked in TV for decades, and he’s a professional. He can take it. He doesn’t need kid gloves. Rubbish what is patronising. You try and change a script last minute and see how you do. I’m giving Doug credit he did a good job with the change
Doug Naylor evidently has the thickest skin in the entire world, he’s demonstrably not bothered if anyone’s genuine, honest opinion of his work is negative. Plus, sometimes I think I like X better than he does.
I like all of Entangled including the Irene E stuff (with the exception of her death). In fact, to me the first half of Entangled is the funniest section of the whole of X. So there.
>You try and change a script last minute and see how you do. That’s not the point though, is it? Doug allowed himself to be put in a situation where the script had to be changed at the last minute. That’s a failing of the Production. And, hey, Doug’s a producer too. And for what it’s worth, Entangled was a mess long before the guy in the chimp costume said he couldn’t work long hours. It was even a mess long before Doug said “I need a guy in a chimp costume”. The reason we’re here, on this website, is because of something Doug co-created. If an episode doesn’t reach the lofty standards that made us fans, than that’s a reflection on not only Doug’s occasional failures, but also his numerous master-works. Or, y’know, just blindly love it all. Whatever.
You try and change a script last minute and see how you do. I am not paid to write television. Of course I couldn’t do it well, nor would anyone expect me to be able to. Doug is.
Out of Time was written while the show was being recorded. It is not offensive shit. The end of Entangled is.
Out of Time was written while the show was being recorded. It is not offensive shit. The end of Entangled is. I do believe Doug should have been able to come up with something better than we got, but comparing it to Out of Time is unfair. Rob and Doug were both writing together. In X Doug was writing alone while dividing his attention with directorial duties. Of course what he wrote last minute isn’t going to be on par with that ending, the conditions were far less favorable. Besides, I truly believe they just got incredibly lucky on Out of Time. I think that was a once in a lifetime miracle that a last minute rush job could turn out not just good but brilliant. Again, still think Doug could’ve done better than he did, even last minute. Not disagreeing on that. And Rimmer was shaking with the sound effect to switch back from projection mode. I have no idea why they didn’t add in the light bee floating in the air where he had been standing when he switched to soft light projection. That there is the massive oversight.
That opening gag of Entangled is in my opinion the funniest opening gag the show has ever done. And the rest was pretty good too, until really the last five minutes. I think when something has a particularly unsatisfying ending, you tend to forget how good other parts of the show might have been. And the reveres, like with Lemons. I think that starts fairly weakly but once it gets going it doesn’t let up and by the end you’ve completely forgotten any weakness.
