Let’s Talk About Give & Take (on UKTV Play) News Posted by Ian Symes on 30th September 2016, 08:45 Ah, Give And Take, the episode with the title that’s just an ampersand away from perfection. [EDIT: Actually, it has an ampersand in the title card!] It’s time to finally come face to face with that weird scary robot fish thing, and presumably to finally put a name to it. Episode three of six will be winging its way online right about now, so this is your destination for spoilery discussion ahead of the TV broadcast. EDIT: THE LORD GIVETH AND IS YET TO TAKETH AWAY. We’ll have some Talking Points for you this evening, with the full written review to follow over the course of the week. The regular podcast version of our live Samsara DwarfCast will also be online later, and a huge thank you to those who listened live and joined in the discussion last night. It’s hugely gratifying to see so many of you reacting to the nonsense we say, and your contributions make for a much better show. Anyway, Give And Take it away…
Ok i enjoyed this one more then the last 2 episodes, the deranged droid gave me chills and was disappointed he didn’t pop back up at the end, for all the hype he should have been in it more :( Although in typical Doug fashion it was perhaps trying to be abit over clever in some ways where he incorporates several different ideas into one episode so it felt like 3 phases, the deranged droid stuff, the cat kidney stuff and the time travel stuff all in 30 minutes. I did like the time travel stuff went full circle though, although it was a tiny bit similar to stasis leak.
FINALLY. Location spoilers! Stupidly excited that RD chose one of Southampton’s most iconic buildings to film in. Craig David, Benny Hill, Matt Le Tissier…and Red Dwarf. The location used in much of this episode is behind my mum’s house! Most of my local family have all worked there at some point (as well as Esso around the corner). She saw the on-location vehicles and there was even a sign on the main road saying simply “RD” and an arrow – meaning nothing to anyone except cast and crew. Apart from that we knew it was Fawley Power Station anyway, because my step-dad still works there occasionally on projects, and all the staff were falling over themselves about it in the pub :’) Also, anyone from the local area will recognise the control room and tunnels immediately as they are so very iconic. Perfect for RD! Why they want to demolish it I’ll never know, it’s not entirely 100% disused yet and it’s perfect for location filming. Also, this location was used in Mission Impossible Rogue Nation. But that was crap (IMHO).
Frustrating. But only because it started off so well. The Good Points: 1. Tempered performances (I’ll come back to this, ironically, in ‘The Bad Points’). Chris has got Rimmer back. Lister is sounding more like Lister. I’m happy about this. 2. Lighting and make up on Rimmer and Lister (yes, including Rimmer’s hair – nicely wavy and less recessed this episode) — the best they’ve looked since the late 90s. They no longer look decades older than both Craig and Chris do in real life. Whatever they did, they got it right this time. Huzzah! 3. Some very nice Rimmer moments — played out to near perfection by Chris. 4. Lister’s costume/wardrobe — easily the best since the series came back. The more casual ‘slob in space’ look really works, and it makes Lister look younger in a way, too. 5. A plot! Well, kind of. A good mix of the last two episodes in a way (i.e. one felt more comedic whereas one felt more plot driven — this episode hit the balance in a lot of ways). And now The Bad Points: 1. Sadly the episode descended into overly broad performances again at one point (but saved itself by reigning them in again — so not an entirely bad point I suppose). 2. ‘Captain Bollocks’ and ‘Rimshot’. Just made me wince in despair. 3. Apart from the first 5 minutes, I didn’t really laugh at all. Odd for Red Dwarf. 4. The hideous music queue that made one whole sequence play out like something out of a dodgy Nu Who Christmas episode (staring Matt Smith and possibly made for CBBC). It was Tim Burton’s Nightmare Before Narnia’s Doctor Christmas-Hands. The tone of this sequence was jarring to say the least. 5. Speaking of tone. The parts I wanted to feel ‘threatening and serious’ were light and comedic (though not particularity funny — what a waste of a ‘Dr. Lanstrom-like villain), and the parts that felt like they should’ve been peppered with character gags and brevity were sadly lacking. 6. The Snack Bot gag would’ve worked much better if Doug had saved the reveal until the end (i.e. we – the audience -are not in on it while Rimmer’s having his therapy session and Lister is being prepped for surgery). Like I said — I found it frustrating, but only because it really had the potential to be so much better. I mean, I didn’t dislike it — but it just felt like it had the potential to be a classic and yet missed the boat because of the above. Just my opinion, obviously, and subject to change after more watches — but that’s what I thought about this one. I really wanted to like it more than I actually did on a first viewing.
Throwing down my initial thoughts after first watch: I thoroughly enjoyed “Twentica”. I liked “Samsara” in spite of its obvious flaws in the second half. But I bloody loved “Give and Take” from start to finish! This episode, far more than the first two, hit that series V sweet spot that I was hoping for this series – cool science fiction ideas, moody atmosphere, great characterisation and some solid gags. Even the ending wasn’t as abrupt as the previous episodes. Hopefully we still have three more quality episodes to come but whatever else happens, this is a series highlight for me. Great stuff.
Well that’s the best one of the 3 so far for me. Felt like a much more complete episode with a story that is fully realised without any sudden endings or tacked on closing scenes. It’s a shame we didn’t get to see a little more of the deranged medibot on the space station, but I liked how the story played out and tying in all the little bits from throughout the episode. Doug is getting a lot better at doing that recently. At first I thought the Rimmer lift scene at the start may have just been lifted from the original idea for Samsara but it actually worked and had a purpose that’s realised right at the end rather justjust being a funny scene thrown in at the start. I liked the little nods to Stasis Leak, although I wish they had referenced it specifically, Doug is really going in for re-purposing old ideas currently isn’t he? I don’t mind at all because they are working really well, in reletively fresh and new ways. Also the idea of taking something from the past into the present being the resolution to the extended Tikka to Ride. From beginning to end this episode was full of jokes again, though, I fell like I laughed more at the other two episodes, these were still fun, and it’s the story and the way it is delivered in terms of pacing and story telling that really elevates this above Twentica and Samsara. Again they have managed to pack a whole heap of stuff into the episode that each one is feeling longer than 30 mins. Wasn’t too sold on the Snack Despensor robot. Another mistaken identity gag with the result being that if you believe you can do something, you can do it is getting a little old hat now. That said, it gets a pass just for seeing Rimmer’s therapy session. I don’t quite buy that’d he’d be so quick and willing (let alone volunteer) to see a therapist but it was hilarious and a nice, quick little respite from the main part of the episode. So yeah, I loved it and think I’ll enjoy re-watching this a lot in the weeks, months, years to come.
I liked the little nods to Stasis Leak, although I wish they had referenced it specifically Thats the thing though, is it a nod? or is it just coincidence? doug has said his memory isn’t that great when it comes to past 60 something episodes and sometimes has to be reminded if something has been done before.
Asclepius is much more terrifying now than in the pre-records in the studio (perhaps blame my eyesight, but I distinctly recall him as a clown… obviously he’s not). For me, he is the most visually chilling villian RD’s ever had. Exceptional costume.
Thoroughly enjoyed that episode, felt like a good episode should, felt longer than 30 minutes, there were good music cues too. I agree the deranged droid didn’t get alot of screentime after being heavily featured in promo campaign but he couldn’t pop up at the end, the space station definitely exploded. Great model work and location filming was exquisite. A very intresting looking and funny episode, will definitely enjoy rewatching
I was surprised that Asclepius wasn’t in more of the episode but I have a feeling that’s only because we’ve built it up based on the promo material. It served the same function as Dr Lanstrom in “Quarantine” – creepy villain who gets the plot going.
Great similie joke. The Amish barbers line made me laugh. And the “Don’t want you” bit before it was great, too. Captain Bollocks was a bit overcooked for my tastes. I like my comedy al dente (commedia dell’Arte?). But then the action starts and it fucking takes off! Minor niggles. I wish Cat didn’t have all that eye makeup. The bazookoid effect and the Fifa line was a bit ‘Captain’. But all in all, it was a pretty solid script. Oh and I thought SNACKY was James Buckley.
Now that I think about it, Lister really is a medical marvel. Not only did he have his appendix removed twice, but he also had four kidneys!
Minor thing, but Cat’s hair – this was the first episode recorded (I was there) and the hairstyle obviously got somewhat smoother in subsequently recorded eps, as witnessed in Twentica and Samsara (if G&T was first, they must have been after). Knowing the Cat I think he would relax his hair among a million other beauty treatments!
Best so far in my opinion, and I really liked Samsara. Most in character the characters have been since the 90’s. Things I liked: Interesting model shots, maybe a bit of good quality CGI too. Good villain! Amusing but never loses the menace. Lots going on, but didn’t feel rushed like the other two of this series. Wasn’t so bothered about the end scene, again, a little abrupt like Samsara, and perhaps the Asclepiwhatnot was underused a tad. And this will be the one where Cat’s hair looked like pubes.
But then the action starts and it fucking takes off! Very cinematic and the music was quite Filmic also
That was more like it! Well paced and FUNNY. Huzzah! Best episode by a country mile. But wait a minute…if the kidneynapping had already taken place before Asclepius operates on Lister, how did he still have kidneys to remove? Or did the future Dwarfers overwrite what was originally an actual booze bender?
But wait a minute…if the kidneynapping had already taken place before Asclepius operates on Lister, how did he still have kidneys to remove? I assume they were not his that were in the jar, maybe the dead guys… the skeleton… maybe if that makes sense.
Surely Kryten would’ve noticed his kidneys were still in place during med tests? Anyway… Loved the initial reveal on Snacky. Tickled my deliberately shit prop Holly-Hop funnybone. Wonder if he’ll feature in the future? Also, great line about plenty of lifts lining up for Rimmer to move up and down their shaft, or something. Catholic church / science gag also good. Only clunker was the cat dictionary “donor” one.
That was more like it! Well paced and FUNNY. Huzzah! Best episode by a country mile. But wait a minute…if the kidneynapping had already taken place before Asclepius operates on Lister, how did he still have kidneys to remove? Or did the future Dwarfers overwrite what was originally an actual booze bender? I don’t think there’s any issue with following the loop of ‘kidneynapping, idea to travel back, friendly kidneynapping’ for our benefit instead of a Bill & Ted style ‘ thought it and it happened’ bit of time travel but by travelling back and removing the kidneys before Asclepius can, they wouldn’t have to travel back at all because there’d be no kidneys to nap. But it’s still funny. So far XI is blowing X out of the water.
This has the same sorta complex story as entangled where one direction ends up going down a totally different direction mid way through and another at the end and i honestly feel it stops a good story from becoming a classic purely because it often feels like 3 rushed mini stories. It was handled better IMO then entangled but still.
Havnt read anything yet. Have decided not to watch during daylight. Going to watch 10pm ish when I get home from work. Have realised that samsara was shot, with lighting moody etc So I want to savour this one at least in an evening watch In closer to what its designed 9pm tv slot feel might be.
Hmmm. I’ll have to give it a second viewing but the pacing felt off – I REALLY loved the first 10 minutes and then the last third seemed to have a little too much exposition. More time with the villain would have been welcome – it felt odd that the main “peril” of the ep was over with so quickly. In terms of negatives, Cat looked really off (though I assume that was fixed after this ep, fro mwhat we’ve seen), the “FIFA” reference made me groan (too topical a comment for a show set 3 million years in the future) and the ending was abrupt, again. I think that was the editing, though, as the joke was fine. I liked more than I disliked, though. I really enjoyed the Lister/Cat scene (from someone who hated their exchanges last week), I thought Rimmer’s therapy session was hilarious and it really did feel like Red Dwarf at it’s best in parts (as others have said, very series 5 when they were on the ship at the start). Also, I LOVE that Doug has the confidence to write a scene, now, without feeling like he has to get a laugh after each line. That doesn’t automatically equate to great writing, but I think it worked very well in the scenes away from Red Dwarf.
The way I see it is this: Asclepius didn’t take Lister’s kidneys. Realising they were already gone (Because older Lister had stolen them), he was actually set to replace them with the kidneys in the jar Rimmer destroyed. The events of the episode didn’t really need to happen! And Lister realising that would perhaps have been a funnier denoument than what we got…
The show does look bloody gorgeous, too. I’m not sure yet if that’s to it’s detriment or not because I do find myself taken out of the story occasionally to gawp at the presentation.
Thats the thing though, is it a nod? or is it just coincidence? doug has said his memory isn’t that great when it comes to past 60 something episodes and sometimes has to be reminded if something has been done before. I can imagine memory being choppy on specific details or jokes, but forgetting an entire episodes plot, to me, feels unlikely. Even if he had someone else would surely remember and bring it up. Surely Kryten would’ve noticed his kidneys were still in place during med tests? His kidneys weren’t in place. They were missing for the entire episode. Episode opens, Lister had kidneys missing. They go to the space station, get attacked. A jar of random kidneys are accidentally shot and destroyed. Kryten runs tests, sees missing kidneys, believes they were extracted and accidentally shot on the space station. Crew travel back in time to remove past Lister’s kidneys and implant them into current Lister.
I am abit mixed on the cat and lister talks, i dunno if it went on abit long, again maybe abit of a trim down wouldn’t have hurt, especially when the conclusion ended up being something totally different
Mixed feelings about the episode, not as many laughs as last week but there were some great bits, I particularly enjoyed Rimmer’s “Obviously that, yes, obviously. Do you think it’s that obvious?” (even though there’s been plenty of very similar moments in the past it really worked here) and the reveal of Snacky (though the reveal of his name/function might’ve worked as a better punchline later). It looked fantastic, the location lighting was really good and Lister sneaking up on Lister looked about as good as I’ve ever seen that sort of thing done on TV. Nice idea to try and explore Cat still being very much a cat but also being part of the crew for years, but his reaction felt a little too harsh even for him, and Lister and Kryten tricking him didn’t feel right either. Didn’t like Captain Bollocks either, don’t want to sound like a prude but I guess to me Red Dwarf was the first post-watershed show I was allowed to watch as kid because all the adult jokes would go over my head and there wasn’t much proper swearing. But more importantly than that, it’s not that funny a nickname. And, yeah, I was wondering the same thing as everyone else about those kidneys in the jar. Think this’ll be one that I’ll have to rewatch once or twice before I can make my mind up.
In a row we’ve had Chronos, Samsara and Asclepius – someone’s been reading the Junior Colour Encyclopaedia Of Ancient Mythology…
The kidneys don’t make sense but we are talking a man who is his own dad. I feel a little embarrassed to say this, but “Captain Bollocks” got a huge laugh out of me….. only slightly spoiled by the fact I’d seen the merch with that phrase.
But more importantly than that, it’s not that funny a nickname. It was Kryten’s cheerful delivery of it that got the laugh out of me, not the nickname itself (as in, had someone just referred to him as it in conversation, I wouldn’t have found it funny).
It went on a bit though, didn’t it. It would have been much more enjoyable if Kryten had only said it once. Because that was the time I laughed at it.
Didn’t notice that it overstayed its welcome and repeating gags usually get on my tits. Will see on a rewatch.
I am gonna take a guess and say they were mean’t to be the dead skeleton guys kidneys Or it could be that they’re Listers and the time travel logic doesn’t *quite* work…
This was the best episode of RD since series VI for me. I loved the fast-moving plot (no ‘Samsara’ flab here), thought it was great the way it all doubled-back on itself and tied up all the throwaway lines from earlier in the episode (even though I suspected something was being set up when the lift mentioned that it was going up to the stasis booths), I thought the villain was a great mix of scary and funny – with a great design, I found the mistaken-identity stuff with the snack droid amusing, the performances captured the ‘classic’ versions of the characters really well (particularly Rimmer and Lister), and the sets (especially the location stuff) all looked great. So yep, I think that’s as much as I’ve enjoyed the show since Out Of Time. If series XI manages to top that I’ll be very pleasantly surprised.
Or it could be that they’re Listers and the time travel logic doesn’t *quite* work… Well thats just a plothole then but since we only see Lister and Cat aswell one dead skeletal body i am gonna assume those kidneys had to belong to one of those three. It could be the dead guys, although they would have to be well preserved, which is possible as they could have been frozen or something ;p
This was the best episode of RD since series VI for me. I loved the fast-moving plot (no ‘Samsara’ flab here), thought it was great the way it all doubled-back on itself and tied up all the throwaway lines from earlier in the episode (even though I suspected something was being set up when the lift mentioned that it was going up to the stasis booths), I thought the villain was a great mix of scary and funny – with a great design, I found the mistaken-identity stuff with the snack droid amusing, the performances captured the ‘classic’ versions of the characters really well (particularly Rimmer and Lister), and the sets (especially the location stuff) all looked great. So yep, I think that’s as much as I’ve enjoyed the show since Out Of Time. If series XI manages to top that I’ll be very pleasantly surprised. Completely agree with this. Felt like “proper” Dwarf right the way through. Everyone remained in character throughout, the jokes had an easier touch and the (admittedly familiar) story elements played a part rather than just sort of being there to pad things out.
Absobloodyexactly. It wasn’t as funny as the classics but it was effortless, confident and rarely *un*funny.
I forget the specific wording, but I laughed a lot at Rimmer’s joke about them going up and down his shaft. There’s a lot of humour in this series that feels slightly different territory for Dwarf and it helps it feel fresh.
That was wonderful. First ten minutes was absolutely spot-on joke-wise, and although the jokes were slightly more spread out after that it wasn’t at all the show’s detriment, as they almost all hit the mark. I can’t think of a single joke that didn’t work for me. I absolutely loved Captain Bollocks. In general, there weren’t any jokes that just felt like one liners. It was all back to feeling very conversational again. “Not you” was wonderful. I think it would have been good if Kryten had worked out that, because Lister had no kidneys to remove, there was no initial threat and thus the whole problem was of their own making rather than the droid’s – it could have led to an amusing frustrated reaction from Lister, and also easily plugged that potential plot-hole. Performances were excellent. I really, really enjoyed seeing Rimmer again. Proper, classic Rimmer. It’s the most Rimmery Chris has been since VI and that made the whole thing a joy to watch in itself. I quite liked the complexity of the plot, it felt almost like a farce in each situation being resolved by a bigger, dafter one. Unlike Entangled, which just had one scenario followed by the next, they all linked up here and were tied together at the end. It felt one draft on the right side of falling apart, although I do agree that it could have been a little tighter maybe. Nice to see more of the ship in the episode, it’s the first episode in which we’ve actually spent some time on Red Dwarf itself. Corridors, lifts and such always please me. It’s all looking wonderful, too. Snacky was good, although slightly difficult to watch in the fact that I was always very self-aware of there being a really shit looking robot on screen. Obviously the point, but it did threaten to drag me out of the reality of it at times. Again, it just about worked. And we finally get to see Cat’s ‘pubey’ wig. Yes, that looked awful. I’m guessing for one reason or another he must have forgotten to condition his hair that morning. I’ve been thinking for a while that the ‘life signs’ part is going to be from Can of Worms rather than this episode. I wasn’t so surprised that the whole episode wasn’t about the mad droid whose name I can’t be arsed to scroll up and copy. Overall, what I enjoyed most about the show can be summed up in one sentence: it felt like I was watching Red Dwarf, rather than ‘new Red Dwarf’.
Performances were excellent. I really, really enjoyed seeing Rimmer again. Proper, classic Rimmer. It’s the most Rimmery Chris has been since VI and that made the whole thing a joy to watch in itself. Yes, this. And we finally get to see Cat’s ‘pubey’ wig. Yes, that looked awful. I was more distracted by the outrageous eyebrows. I kind of like the idea that Cat’s dress sense and appearance in general is getting a bit more deranged-looking as he ages. It’s what happens to real cats too.
It does seem that Doug is going to lengths to give Cat more material this season (even than in X), other than just one-liners. That’s great to see. And also exciting since his presence is more notable before we’ve even gotten the long-awaited “Cat” episode.
PDT over on Den of Geek speculats in his review that Asclepius was going to implant those kidneys into Lister. He may have been insane but he was still a medibot. If that’s true, it’s possible that he used his advanced DNA re-writing techniques to grow kidneys suitable for Lister from his own DNA.
PDT over on Den of Geek speculats in his review that Asclepius was going to implant those kidneys into Lister. He may have been insane but he was still a medibot. If that’s true, it’s possible that he used his advanced DNA re-writing techniques to grow kidneys suitable for Lister from his own DNA. Oh, I like that.
The jar with the kidneys that gets shot is a specimen jar, you wouldn’t have kidneys in there if you were operating, they’d be on ice. These were just preserved kidneys on display in Asclepius’s nutty room. There was no time to check the kidneys, as Cat and Lister were unconscious and needed to be evacuated from the disintegrating space station, so when it was discovered that Lister had no kidneys, the obvious assumption for the characters to make, is that the jar kidneys were his. The kidneys in the jar were never Lister’s, and the crew created their own time loop, so they were always the ones who took Lister’s kidneys. Having re-watched that section for clarity, I believe that Asclepius knew that Lister had no kidneys and was going to give him one of Cat’s kidneys – When he greets Lister and Cat, he says something along the lines of “Ah Mrs Robinson, you’re here for your operation” and refers to “the donor” being here as well. While he doesn’t specify who he’s talking to, he’s a genius medi-bot, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume he has some sort of scanning system. So even though he was deemed the villain, perhaps he was just trying to help and fix the missing kidneys problem that the RD crew created. Poor exploded Asclepius :(
That must be it. I’m going with that since its the only theory that’s actually explained fully within the episode.
When he greets Lister and Cat, he says something along the lines of “Ah Mrs Robinson, you’re here for your operation” and refers to “the donor” being here as well. While he doesn’t specify who he’s talking to That’s the crux of it, isn’t it? When he says that, we assume that Lister is “the donor” and Cat is “the patient”. But Asclepius means it the other way around. Our expectations were confounded, and from thence the humour arose.
I don’t know whether id say rimmer and cat were back to their classic selfs as honestly the new series rimmer is obbsessed with being in charge and in the last 3 episodes alone its been made a deal of to the point where at times he comes across abit like a caracuture, and yeah i know he showed abit of that in early series but not that much to the point he needs to introduce himself by full rank everyntime Cat also i imagine in the early days would have been straight up cruel and selfish when sayin no to the kidney transpant but here he was more selfish and whiny
That’s the crux of it, isn’t it? When he says that, we assume that Lister is “the donor” and Cat is “the patient”. But Asclepius means it the other way around. The original meaning doesn’t make sense though – what is the audience meant to think that Lister is donating to Cat? I think the whole no-kidneys-to-remove-time-travel-confusion is only something you think about after the later twists in the episode, and it’s never really made clear that that reverse-meaning is what was intended – so while it’s a fine theory, I think it’s just a possible explanation rather than a definite solution. For all we know Asclepius is just a nutter and what he says doesn’t mean anything, necessarily.
>what is the audience meant to think that Lister is donating to Cat? As I watched it, my thought was that he was muddled up, owing to his being bananas. Interesting to think that he wasn’t necessarily a villain. Though he certainly looked like one. And acted like one in all other ways.
As I watched it, my thought was that he was muddled up, owing to his being bananas. Yeah, exactly. I think initially you’re just meant to think he’s crazy, and spouting nonsense. I think it’s only at the end that you wonder whether there was any meaning at all to what he said.
>what is the audience meant to think that Lister is donating to Cat? As I watched it, my thought was that he was muddled up, owing to his being bananas. Interesting to think that he wasn’t necessarily a villain. Though he certainly looked like one. And acted like one in all other ways. Well the blooded writing on the wall proved he wasnt so there ya go ;p, he tried to tell them but gather they somehow didnt get the message Seeing that gave me chills.
Interesting that Snacky mentioned knowing one of Rimmer’s previous colleagues and that this wasn’t expanded upon. Maybe a clue that we’ll be seeing Snacky again? Otherwise seems like an odd little detail.
This episode was strange, I liked it but it very much felt like a mixing pot of different eras of Red Dwarf all into 1. There were moments in this episode that felt like it was straight out of series V, others that were very series 1 and 2, the Starbug scene felt very series 6, there was a lot of series X and then some of it felt kinda Epideme and Only the Good (except not horrible). I think I will really need to let my feeling on the episode settle before I know how I feel it ranks……I definitely liked it more then Samsara.
> Snacky mentioned knowing one of Rimmer’s previous colleagues Oh yeah! That was weird. Mentioned so briefly that I forgot about it. It happened so fast, I thought he was talking to Kryten.
Sometimes you wonder how you like the same show as somebody yet can disagree so fundamentally on what makes it good. Such is how I feel about some people not finding Captain Bollocks or Snacky funny.
I’m hoping he becomes the fifth regular crew member. “Snacky as Himself” in the opening credits. Imagine the hijinks!
Sometimes you wonder how you like the same show as somebody yet can disagree so fundamentally on what makes it good. Such is how I feel about some people not finding Captain Bollocks or Snacky funny. Dat.
I forgot all about that brief mention of a former colleague. I’d be amazed if that doesn’t play out at some other point.
The original meaning doesn’t make sense though – what is the audience meant to think that Lister is donating to Cat? I think the whole no-kidneys-to-remove-time-travel-confusion is only something you think about after the later twists in the episode, and it’s never really made clear that that reverse-meaning is what was intended – so while it’s a fine theory, I think it’s just a possible explanation rather than a definite solution. For all we know Asclepius is just a nutter and what he says doesn’t mean anything, necessarily. It’s not meant to make sense, you’re meant to think he’s an insane droid, surgically removing organs for no good reason. It’s only something you think about later… once you have watched the whole episode, have all the information and are able to make an informed conclusion. Yes, you’re right in that respect, but if it was obvious at the time, then that would pretty much ruin the whole plot, no?
Interesting to think that he wasn’t necessarily a villain. Though he certainly looked like one. And acted like one in all other ways. Don’t judge a droid by his barmy exterior.
I think this episode had my two biggest laughs this series. The Snacky reveal when he first turns around and the cut back into the opening scene of the episode.
Sometimes you wonder how you like the same show as somebody yet can disagree so fundamentally on what makes it good. Such is how I feel about some people not finding Captain Bollocks or Snacky funny. All three episodes so far seem to have elicited everything from total adoration to ‘sack Doug Grant and bin the canned laughter’, and there’s so many wildly differing opinions on where the episodes stand in relation to one another. Has any series of Red Dwarf been quite so weirdly divisive at the halfway point?
Has any series of Red Dwarf been quite so weirdly divisive at the halfway point? Series X was maybe even more divisive!
I forgot all about that brief mention of a former colleague. I’d be amazed if that doesn’t play out at some other point. Well the map from the beginning as yet to come into play so it wouldn’t surprise me if just like that it didn’t go anywhere
Has any series of Red Dwarf been quite so weirdly divisive at the halfway point? Series X was maybe even more divisive! Oh, you might well be right – it’s all coagulated in my head into one big revival party.
So I’ve just started watching it for a second time and I’ve realised the model shots have barely received a mention this time around. There’s some fantastic shots in this episode Star Bug approaching and flying into the space station, and then the take off, escape and the exposition of the space station are really top notch. Far superior than anything we have seen before. Also, they mention the reason the space station is disintegrating is an asteroid storm. As this was shot first, could it be that this was where the crew were meant to have picked up the Cronos thingy that the Exponids are after in Twentica? Only reason I mention this is that the first level of the game is flying through an asteroid storm that is threatening the ship you are trying to scan. If this is in theory meant to precede Twentica at the time the game was written, it could explain why that made it the opening level of the game. The only thing that makes that theory fall apart is the space station in Give and Take and the ship in the game look nothing alike. In fact the ship in the game is just a derelict of the ship the Exponoids are on. So I’m probably chatting bollocks but I thought the connection was interesting. If nothing else it may hint at another, flying through an asteroid storm level in the game, which would be disappointing if mission types just repeat throughout. It’s be the original Assassin’s Creed all over again.
Back to Earth split opinions too, didn’t it? Though reading message boards elsewhere it now seems to be despised by the general audience… (Back to Earth, that is.)
Has any series of Red Dwarf been quite so weirdly divisive at the halfway point? I think the thing about this series is that while we would like to pretend its back to classic dwarf its pretty much new era dwarf with classic material along with new era doug naylor material which sometimes feels like a different tone to the early shows and you either like the new era material or you don’t, its not just all classic dwarf anymore. For example i liked the rimmer using snacky as a therapist, it was silly but its something i could see classic rimmer doing like feeling sorry for himself even over the smallest of things that happened in his life, but i was abit mixed on kryten and lister tricking the cat into it because it felt like a weird thing for kryten to do and be fine with it.
Back to Earth split opinions too, didn’t it? Though reading message boards elsewhere it now seems to be despised by the general audience… (Back to Earth, that is.) I remember the reviews for back to earth were pretty bad at the time while i think alot of fans were split on it purely because no one wanted to hate it and i still think thats the thing about fandom you can never tell for sure how you feel about it until the hype dies down. Series 8 got good reviews, at least according to the back of the series 8 script book and many people in the fanclub at that time said it was the funniest dwarf next to 5 but that didn’t really last
Just had a second watch and I had far less problems with the pacing this time around. I think I was just expecting more from the villain at the end, but watching it just for what it is, I think it’s a truly great episode of Red Dwarf. I’d definitely be down for more Snacky, so long as it wasn’t over-done. I think it’d be weird if they never mentioned him again given that he apparently upgraded the ship at the end with the light-speed lift, but maybe have him in one more episode before being destroyed or something. Hell, if he’s capable of upgrading the ship then maybe he’d even be able to get a certain computer back online.
Series 8 got good reviews, at least according to the back of the series 8 script book and many people in the fanclub at that time said it was the funniest dwarf next to 5 but that didn’t really last I really dislike series 8, but I would say it was extremely funny. Unfortunately that’s not all that it takes.
I do think the villain doctor should have turned up at the end because when they were escaping from the space station he was chasing after them (slowly) which Doug made a point of showing rather then just leaving him on the ground after being shot so i assumed it was gonna lead to some comeback
but i was abit mixed on kryten and lister tricking the cat into it because it felt like a weird thing for kryten to do and be fine with it. My take on it is not as being something Kryten wants to do, but something he felt had to be done in order to save Lister’s life.
It it interesting how fandom can be so divided. For instance, I really like Dear Dave. And I read a comment on another forum from someone who thought Kryten was the worst episode of all time. Mind you, some people are just wrong…
I really dislike series 8, but I would say it was extremely funny. Unfortunately that’s not all that it takes. Wait, is there some alternate version of series 8 which actually had funny jokes? I must have missed it!
I really dislike series 8, but I would say it was extremely funny. Unfortunately that’s not all that it takes. Wait, is there some alternate version of series 8 which actually had funny jokes? I must have missed it! There’s some genuinely funny moments in VIII, I laughed when it was on, and liked it (bar Only The Good) but only later did I realise how alien it was. Ackerman, the Rimmer salute, erection basketball, Reservoir Dogs, some of the bunkroom conversations, Killcrazy, Cat and Kochanski as kids and Eurovision contestants, Rat’s arse, come back Mr Sucks, Rimmer and Lister getting the shit kicked out of them with time slip. I laughed at it all, it’s barely Red Dwarf, but it’s still funny.
Symes’s Law: As an online discussion about Red Dwarf grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Series VII or VIII approaches 1.
I really dislike series 8, but I would say it was extremely funny. Congratulations, you possess the most bizarre opinion one could ever have about a sit-com.
Choppy thoughts… It’s fairly apparent that XI is being broadcast in the ‘wrong’ order. I mean, that was Show One in every way – it felt literally like it picked up from where The Beginning ended, we got some actual reestablishment of the status quo, the camera-track interior Starbug shot felt like a reveal, the sign said “Not Alert”. Slightly mad that they smashed up all their internal continuity just because the hair and make-up was a bit first-draft. So many clumsy juxtapositions because of the new ordering – 10.6 and 11.1 both being Simulant stories, it taking til 11.3 to see the ship in full light, 11.1 and 11.2 both being atypical off-ship episodes, seeing “NOT ALERT” before “ALERT”, 11.2 and 11.3 both having tonally similar Cat monologues, seeing the XII set before the XI one… and now the second half of XI being three ‘lead character fulfils dream but the grass is not always greener…!’ episodes in a row. Back on subject… clearly the best episode of XI so far, which is damning with faint praise in my eyes but let’s not take a good show for granted. Was it funny? Not really. I’ve sort of accepted that it’s not going to make me laugh out loud anymore, that’s okay as long as I enjoy it which I did do this time, although I maintain it’s still a perversely difficult show to watch and take in. Another ‘whoops I sat on the remote’ ending though I see. And some really badly directed/cut action early on. Gah… it doesn’t seem like it’s being made by people who necessarily know what they’re doing. Say what you like about VII and VIII but they are very well made. You don’t have to put effort in or adjust your filters to watch them. Best bit was obviously Lister listening to Rasta Billy Skank. It was a fab show for Goodall generally, especially after Samsara which if I’m not mistaken was all tracked from 1990s stuff with warbly filters on it. Sorry this post is so incoherent. I am very tired but too self-important to shut the fuck up.
Red Dwarf is bound to split opinion. It’s spanned a few decades, had different styles of direction, different styles of humour, brought it a new cast member then fucked her off again… All the time people are growing up falling in love with different phases, eras, bytes. Other long running sitcoms like Last of the Summer Wine or Only Fools and Horses didn’t really do that, so maintain a fairly loyal fanbase. Most have a decent run of a few years and don’t change much. Porridge, Father Ted, Fawlty Towers to name, you know, those. Bottom changed a bit in its 3 series…but not so one series was unrecognisable from the other. Different Strokes… I can’t watch that now. But I enjoyed it at the time. It had the fat bloke from Maid Marian in it, didn’t it!
Just had a 2nd watch with company — enjoyed it much more this time. The cast (bar Danny, who was still fine in my opinion) really looked like you could’ve plucked them out of the tail end of the 90s, which is something I haven’t been able to say since BTE. For whatever reason, the wardrobe, lighting, and make up depts were spot on for the characters this time around. As a few others have pointed out: again, a lot of references directly, indirectly, and in tone to series gone by. It gives it quite a muddled feel in a way. It’s a shame that Doug didn’t say ‘I’m gonna make a series IV style episode, a series II style episode, and a series V style episode’, instead of just mashing them all together. Also — have to agree with the running order thought: this felt like episode one to me. If this is the case, and it was in fact switched because the network wanted a ‘more expensive looking’ opener, I hope they’ll reconsider for the blu ray release. Anyhow, it’s gone from ‘frustrating due to it’s own potential’ to ‘best of the three’ for me.
It’s not meant to make sense, you’re meant to think he’s an insane droid, surgically removing organs for no good reason. It’s only something you think about later… once you have watched the whole episode, have all the information and are able to make an informed conclusion. Yes, you’re right in that respect, but if it was obvious at the time, then that would pretty much ruin the whole plot, no? Yes, that was exactly what I was getting at. I was responding to Seb’s suggestion that when you first hear the dialogue about the donor and the patient, we assume that Lister is the donor and Cat is the patient. But I don’t think you do assume that, because at that point you just think he’s a bonkers droid who’s just talking nonsense.
>Other long running sitcoms like Last of the Summer Wine or Only Fools and Horses didn’t really do that, so maintain a fairly loyal fanbase. Only Fools and Horses had probably three eras you could split it into. The first 5 series of more normal sitcom style. The following two series and specials up to 1996 which took a more dramatic element on. Then the final three specials and spin-offs were what they were. Now I like them all (well, I’ve not seen Rock and Chips) but I wouldn’t be surprised if a good portion of Only Fools and Horses fans only like the first era or the first two eras. Certainly can’t see a big Only Fools and Horses fan quoting GARY too much.
Definitely. For me it actually feels a bit tired by series 5 as well. Certainly stuff after that feels like a different programme, and one I’m not really a fan of, even though I love the earlier series.
We had a thread not long ago which turned into a fairly in depth discussion about The Thin Blue Line, if I remember correctly. This series if very blue so far. I’m wondering whether this is intentional, to give it a specific look, and if XII will be given a different hue to help differentiate.
So much to discuss!! Much like Samsara, this is another one where you can’t really watch it ‘casually.’ It really does require a 2nd viewing to appreciate everything. Though it makes a ton of sense for Doug to do this, seeing as most of the fans will be watching all of these episodes several times. I have no idea what new fans or casual viewers will make of it… – Location work!! Okay, we got some decent location stuff in BtE, but this feels like proper Dwarf-on-location for the first time in ages. and how brilliant was it?? The most perfect choice of location to shoot RD (thanks to Joey above for filling us in on the details!), and they actually did stuff there other than stand around! – Models! Explosions!! The space station being hit by asteroids and exploding have to be some of the best space shots the show has ever seen. The ‘bug flying down to it earlier on was very nicely done also. Also, have we ever seen the ‘bug flying alongside Red Dwarf like that before? Okay, it didn’t look particularly convincing…but at least they’re trying new things. :) – The performances! Considering this was the first show recorded, the cast did a superb job. There was so much craziness going on, a nice bit of action and a fair chunk of dialogue for all the main cast to deal with. The way Cat turns to Lister and says ‘he got the kidney tests mixed up!’ is probably my favourite moment of the episode. :D Another top line is Lister saying he felt like the living dead, then saying ‘no offence’ to Rimmer. That gag feels so series 1. Bobby has to be applauded here as well for getting through it all, cause if you look at 24:28 into the episode, he looks like he just wants it to be over with… – There are a few negatives though…but most of them are the same problems Samsara and, to a lesser extent, Twentica have already demonstrated. Some of the gags could have been a lot more effective but Doug just doesn’t quite get there, either with the wording or in the direction. Like the Snacky reveal gag, for instance, it IS funny but it doesn’t work as well as it could because the way he looks has already been played for laughs, so we already don’t believe he can be Asclepius before ‘Snacky’ is revealed on his back. Ah well….it’s mostly good! One thing…who the hell is Flight Co-ordinator Ronald Littlewood???
Once again, commenting before I see what everyone else has said, so I don’t know who I’m repeating/echoing/contradicting. I enjoyed Samsara more than Twentica. I think I like Give & Take even more. A good time loop story can never fail in my book. A shame that the Big Scary Fuckoff Crazy Robot was a wee bit of an anticlimax, but it didn’t hurt. Some nice gags from all four crew members, and some nice model shots. Rimmer’s therapy session was great, and the choice of what was repeated was cracking. Nice split-screen-ing. Also, Kryten’s looking great. All that fuss seems a lifetime ago. Couple of niggles. The Cat’s hair. Fucking Hell. What *was* that? Also – the Red Dwarf music sting; it’s being a bit overused, I think. Four or five times – at least – in this episode? The scenes aren’t long enough to warrant repeating that cue every other scene. People moaned last/this week about the second half of Samsara. I loved all of this episode, but I can’t believe how much they seemed to cram into the second half here! Thought we were going to have an issue with loads of location stuff, but then, for me, definitely the best paced so far. And all four were bang on character, too. Right, I’ll probably think of more in a bit, but that’s it for now. Initial thoughts, over.
have we ever seen the ‘bug flying alongside Red Dwarf like that before? Series 5 had a shot like that One thing…who the hell is Flight Co-ordinator Ronald Littlewood??? i must be the only person who doesn’t really care who that person is and didn’t think anything of it when he mentioned him, i can’t see why doug would have thrown something like that in for a later episode
A genuinely GREAT episode of Red Dwarf. It didn’t seem like a weird approximation of the show I used to love. It was the show I love. This slides effortlessly into the top 30, no question. Maybe that last 5 minutes was a bit frantic with big ideas out of nowhere, but it had already won me over. It took me 7 days to brave Samsara for a second time, I want to watch this one again straight away. The only negative was Danny’s wig, frankly.
>One thing…who the hell is Flight Co-ordinator Ronald Littlewood??? Oh, yeah. What the hell was that?
i must be the only person who doesn’t really care who that person is and didn’t think anything of it when he mentioned him, i can’t see why doug would have thrown something like that in for a later episode I can’t see why he would have thrown it in there for no reason. It’s a really oddly specific line that added absolutely nothing to the plot at all. Unless he’s thrown it in JUST to wind us up.
I can’t see why he would have thrown it in there for no reason. It’s a really oddly specific line that added absolutely nothing to the plot at all. Unless he’s thrown it in JUST to wind us up. I assumed it was just casual dialogue tbh i can’t see why mentioning a name in this episode would impact a later episode, i mean its possible it could but i don’t see how mentioning someone in this episode will make a difference later on as its not like rimmer said oh yeah i remember him and added abit of detail to who he is.and how he effected his life like a kind of set up for later on
Didn’t like this episode at all. A whopping great pothole in the middle of the conceit and no real laughs (for me) except for “Captain Bollocks”. Like last week as well the episode seemed to just stop happening as opposed to ending naturally. Positives: model work was great and the location stuff looked fab.
>Only Fools and Horses had probably three eras you could split it into. The first 5 series of more normal sitcom style. The following two series and specials up to 1996 which took a more dramatic element on. Then the final three specials and spin-offs were what they were. I don’t know if you’re agreeing with me or not, but writing about comedy is lovely, so I’ll continue to twat on about it until I disgust myself with the sheer ego-trip. Yes the writing does drop off after the Batman and Robin specials. However, Del is always Del, Rodney is always Rodney. Never Rodney the Donut Boy… They grow up as we watch. But they don’t suddenly act out of character. And the tone does change from a happy go lucky sitcom to a darker comedy in places – but it was always on the side of tragedy and realism. There were very dark moments in the first few series. Nothing like the miscarriage scene, but shoplifting, assault, rape, a deranged psychopath and nuclear war were all in those first few series…(“We were promised homes fit for heroes, but instead we got heroes fit for homes.”) Oh and grandad dying. All shot the same way, directed more or less the same way, and, crucially, acted the same way. So not all that different. Plus they were on TV every couple of years, repeated all the time, and is a national institution. It’s hard to miss. But Red Dwarf had a new batch of viewers watching 7 and 8 first. I watched series 5 first and went back to 1… At the time it felt surreal. If I liked series 8 then found out about series 1 and 2, it’d be like comparing Two Pints of Lager with Yes, Minister. So yes, I think Red Dwarf is divisive among fans in a way Only Fools & Horses isn’t. You might not get fans of the first series quoting “GARY”, but you’d almost certainly get fans of GARY quoting “louvre doors” or Del falling through a bar. Yes?
>So yes, I think Red Dwarf is divisive among fans in a way Only Fools & Horses isn’t. You might not get fans of the first series quoting “GARY”, but you’d almost certainly get fans of GARY quoting “louvre doors” or Del falling through a bar. Yes? But by the same token I think somebody who is a fan of Series VIII is invariably the type of fan who is likely to quote “What’s an iguana”. The fans who tend to even like the least popular episodes are usually the ones who like all sorts of episodes. Obviously the differences between series of Red Dwarf are far more pronounced than OFAH as well as Red Dwarf having a much more fervent fanbase but I do think you can point to the change to 50 minute episodes as a point in which the show became something more dramatic with room for more running characters (all for the better, in my view) and then the final three specials are a further move from the earlier stuff. The sort of people who say “Red Dwarf is rubbish after they lost Red Dwarf” is the same sort of person to say “the early Only Fools are the best”. They’re usually far more casual fans, the type to watch repeats on Dave/GOLD rather than buy the DVDs. To be honest I only picked up on it because I watched it loads when I was a kid and the divide of those three eras was always very pronounced even when I was 12. Red Dwarf has us insane fans who pore over every detail and split things up into neat categories of episodes. OFAH is just a collection of episodes because there really isn’t any mega OFAH fans… Oh wait… http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/are_these_the_best_ever_only_fools_and_horses_moments_as_picked_by_suffolk_superfan_with_biggest_collection_in_britain_1_4533836
Something that has to be remembered about Red Dwarf is that it isn’t just a sitcom its also a sci-fi show and its celebrated for being a sci-fi show as SFX magazine wouldn’t be having collectors covers for just any sitcom so if it wasn’t for the fact Red Dwarf takes its sci-fi pretty seriously it wouldn’t be up there with shows like doctor who getting the same amount of hype and celebration. Red Dwarf is very much in geek culture, its in sci-fi circles aswell as comedy and that is alot to carry on its shoulders. i started watching Red Dwarf when i was 8 and i watched all 5 seasons and watched series 6 when it first aired and i loved it, while i remember watching tikka to ride at 11 years old and feeling bored and i couldn’t work out why, i assumed maybe i was growing out of the show but many obviously shared the same view and its something thays quite hard to ignore Now obviously we got new dwarf now and its likely to be divisive because its a new age version with a new age doug naylor, now yeah i know thats a weird thing to say but look at writers/directors like ridley scott or george lucas as they got older their view on their most famous franchies have changed some what, like alien is very different to prometheus or the SW prequels to the OT.
I agree – there are 3 eras of OFAH, but the point I was attempting (and failing) to make was that they’re all 3 extensions of the same sitcom. They’re all slang for the same thang. So to speak. Rimmer in I vs Rimmer in VIII is like the chalkiest chalk and the cheesiest cheese. >The sort of people who say “Red Dwarf is rubbish after they lost Red Dwarf” is the same sort of person to say “the early Only Fools are the best”. They’re usually far more casual fans, the type to watch repeats on Dave/GOLD rather than buy the DVDs. Fuck me! That’s your idea of a casual fan?! Kudos to you, dude. To me a casual fan of OFAH is someone who likes the ones where Del calls Rodney a wally, or when Trigger calls Rodney a Dave. And as we all know, a casual fan of Red Dwarf is someone who doesn’t seem to exist.
I was disappointed at first that Asclepius (loved the name as someone who’s interested in medical history) didn’t have more screen time, but ultimately I really liked the direction the episode went in. I greatly enjoyed the Rimmer and Snacky bits in Give & Take. However, the highlight for me was the greater exploration of the relationship between Lister and Cat and some of the jokes around that. The performances and pretty much everything else were nailed in this episode. I don’t really have any complaints and I loved the way the episode looped back on itself. I didn’t see it coming at all. More so than Twentica and Samsara, I can’t wait for a second viewing because I think there will definitely be some things that I missed. Mr brother’s theory is that Asclepius fabricated the two kidneys in the jar to put into Lister since it might have scanned him and noticed that he didn’t have any kidneys (although that doesn’t explain why it tranquilised Cat as well).
I wish Asclepius had appeared at the end, it felt like when he found lister and cat he was such a rich character you could really have played on his crazy menace abit more as he really wasnt on screen all that long for the effort they made to make him menacing
Absolutely brilliant. Loved that. Felt just like watching Red Dwarf back in the 90s. With just a touch of being wowed by how far the current series is taking some of the special FX and design ideas, and a small amount of originality in the character stakes too for a tiny moment there, was great to see. Probably the most warm and fuzzy feeling I’ve had watching the show since series V ended. While I loved Back to Earth, and there are great episodes in VI and some cool things since then among the trash of the shows later series. This felt like Back to Reality, or Quarantine days of ship exploring with a bit of danger and menace to it, while still lots of gags going on and a story direction to tell. Well done Doug. You can have a pint of blood if you ever need it providing the NHS canteen staff can come through for ya, after Brexit sends away the qualified doctors. I owe you so much for entertaining me so well over so many years and still going. Yes ok Time paradox has been done in this show before and million others, a hackneyed old cliche you got it right, but at least now we surely know how Lister ended up with two Appendixes!!!!!!!!!! ha ha ha ha. He’s done this more than once! Nice nod to the science behind stasis leak in this. I knew when the lift mentioned the stasis floor we were in for something relevant there. I was think who’s gone in or come out? for a minute there at the start. Shame Tony Hawks wasnt the lift voice. I love that i was sitting there waiting for the super cool looking medi-droid bastard, and we got something more like an extra from The Forbidden Peanut instead!!! Now we just need this Snacky Droid to go up again Aceventureious i(or however you spell it I’ve only watched once) in the current series of robot wars. A Montage therapy session of Rimmers neurosis! Phew That’s gonna need 47 extra DVD’s in the box set of deleted scenes. So the FIFA joke cut out of series 10 gets reworked, installed into Series XI, just in time for Sam Alladyce scandal to break. Doug. Admit it, you payed those journalists that uncovered on him just a few days ago, didn’t you? After being bored senseless in Samsara by Lister and Cat. This delivered the most gripping scene between them I think I’ve ever witnessed. (No spoilers now series XII) Had slight echoes of that time Cat brought presents in Confidence and Paranoia. I can see why the science room is a medical bay design now. I’ve one question. What got shot in the jars? Did I miss any explanation? Or glaring paradox plot hole? Probably wont have quite so much re-watch value as Twentica. It doesnt add much to over all cannon or explore much in term of sci fi ideas. It does flesh out some more of the in universe tech, But on first watch I just bloody loved it. Very entertaining.
It’s been getting better week on week! Both this and Samsara genuinely feel like they’ve picked up where VI left off. Lots of good gags, and it’s good to see the Cat get some more screen time. With the name Snacky drops – could this person perhaps be the Officer that Rimmer saves next week? (Taken from the summary, not spoilers for anyone playing at home) Could be a nice bit of foreshadowing? Speaking of Snacky, I didn’t mind him. I’d be okay with him popping up in a later episode, doing his thing. Like Talkie Toaster or one of the many Tony Hawks Vending Machines. This FEELS like Red Dwarf again, far more so than X. I really hope they keep this momentum up.
Better dead than smeg. Can I just check. “A percussion technique used to produce an accented snare drum backbeat”. https://youtu.be/9CdVTCDdEwI You did know that yeah? Just a question. Thats all.
. Another mistaken identity gag with the result being that if you believe you can do something, you can do it is getting a little old hat now. That said, it gets a pass just for seeing Rimmer’s therapy session.. Thats a very good point. He done it 2 episodes ago in this series, as well as Lemons. And the do we believe thing series VI legion and The beginning are a bit similar.
Surely Kryten would’ve noticed his kidneys were still in place during med tests?. They were removed by Kryten from past lister and put into future lister. Then after the mad medi droid scene happened Past Kryten noticed they were missing. So is only guilty of not noticing a second chip implanted in lister. Unless the mad droid took that out!
I feel a little embarrassed to say this, but “Captain Bollocks” got a huge laugh out of me….. only slightly spoiled by the fact I’d seen the merch with that phrase. I dont feel embarrassed to say I laughed hugely, and then went “Yay” as I mentally ticked off in my head that you could buy that phrase on a T-shirt. And no sure it’s not big or clever. But I dont care really. Ian do you want me to make you a Commander Cunt shirt for Dimension Jump? ;-)
I’d definitely be down for more Snacky, so long as it wasn’t over-done. I think it’d be weird if they never mentioned him again given that he apparently upgraded the ship at the end with the light-speed lift, but maybe have him in one more episode before being destroyed or something. . Make him like Red Dwarfs Kamelion you mean? I dont want Snacky back. Not now. I liked classic era Snacky. But not “up himself” Snacky. I heard he’s been going to Richard behind Doug’s back demanding a fifth button. …. I loved Krytens new variation of smeeee heee. Robert auditioning to play a robot version of Akwright perhaps, across the way in pinewoods Still Open All Hours set.
I dont feel embarrassed to say I laughed hugely, and then went “Yay” as I mentally ticked off in my head that you could buy that phrase on a T-shirt. And no sure it’s not big or clever. But I dont care really. Ian do you want me to make you a Commander Cunt shirt for Dimension Jump? ;-) Kunt Kommandant
Has no one mentioned how amazing the scene is when Lister chloroforms his past self? Such seamless editing!
Has no one mentioned how amazing the scene is when Lister chloroforms his past self? Such seamless editing! What was the last really sexy splitscreen in Dwarf? Psirens? Was nice to see such a staple of the show return.
Has no one mentioned how amazing the scene is when Lister chloroforms his past self? Such seamless editing! What was the last really sexy splitscreen in Dwarf? Psirens? Was nice to see such a staple of the show return. Back to Earth, when Lister meets Craig Charles
Was good we had a threatening villain . That puts to bed all the negativity about Doug only able to write silly enemies
Its funny that a Twentica was supposed to be classed as the strongest episode of the Series but looking back now half way through its the weakest of the 3 although very good. It just shows how strong this Series is turning out to be. Certainly so far in regular terms of quality episodes halfway down the line the strongest Series since Series 6 although 10 would bring a return to form and would just be behind this Series so far. I’m pleased we are seeing more positive comments this week and less nitpicking. Give And Take was after reading the synopsis the one I was looking forward to the least but now probably the most enjoyable and strongest one so far with the strongest ending. I did think the robot would get slaughtered in comments but thankfully most enjoyed it, it certainly helped the story. Still confused as to when we are getting new Howard Goodall music. It’s fine having old Series music in from time to time but that’s all we have anyway just a minor thing. Overall Twenica great, Samsara brill, and Give And Take loved it with strongest ending so far. I hope the standard keeps up but I thinking people will be gunning for Krysis which is a episode I’m really looking forward to seeing. Looking forward to them all but Rimmer next I believe can’t wait.
For me its still, Twentica, then this G&T ep , then Samsara. The third has lots of Iffy amongst its goodies. The other two are packed greatly with stuff I love, but the set design, guest stars and prohibition tech ideas nudge Twentica to top of these 3 over the great location choice and droid design which are strong in this latest ep. Joke for joke I will probably laugh more still At Twentica too. Samsara has stuff i would consider fast forwarding.
I would be concerned about Krysis if I hadn’t seen it filmed. I think it’s a lot more straightforward than the 3 episodes we’ve had. I won’t say much but I came out thinking it was quite funny and it had a really good guest performance. I don’t think people need to be too worried about Krazy Kryten. I really enjoyed this episode, particularly the Cat/Lister stuff. Looking forward to a rewatch; I’ve enjoyed every episode a lot more on a rewatch.
The Lister chloroforming Lister shot is indeed hugely impressive. It would have been so easy to just avoid having to do that shot – just have any of the other three characters do the chloroforming! – so extra marks for doing it in the first place, let alone doing it so well. So far, for me, I think: Give & Take > Twentica > Samsara.
Episode 1: A strong but un-Dwarf idea too caught up in metatextual film parody, supporting characters that sideline the main characters too much and plot-irrelevant extended sketches to really take full flight, but nice to see a decent female guest role. Episode 2: A brilliant start with some big character laughs that turns to embarrassing shit halfway through with a diabolical ending. Episode 3: Lister wakes up feeling distinctly unwell, which opens the first proper ensemble piece of the series with some visually striking scenes shot at a disused power station and an amusing scene where the Cat’s selfishness potentially endangers the crew, but hampered by pacing problems, plot holes and a story that’s not *quite* as clever as it thinks it is. Episode 4: White Hole Episode 5: Dimension Jump Episode 6: Meltdown Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
I would be concerned about Krysis if I hadn’t seen it filmed. I think it’s a lot more straightforward than the 3 episodes we’ve had. I won’t say much but I came out thinking it was quite funny and it had a really good guest performance. I don’t think people need to be too worried about Krazy Kryten. My only concern (from reading set reports) is there is more contradiction/continuity errors. I know it’s Red Dwarf and things have been subtly retconned in the past but… Doug has said many times he has trouble remembering thing and has relied on fan feedback etc to help jog the memory.
Episode 1: A strong but un-Dwarf idea too caught up in metatextual film parody, supporting characters that sideline the main characters too much and plot-irrelevant extended sketches to really take full flight, but nice to see a decent female guest role. Episode 2: A brilliant start with some big character laughs that turns to embarrassing shit halfway through with a diabolical ending. Episode 3: Lister wakes up feeling distinctly unwell, which opens the first proper ensemble piece of the series with some visually striking scenes shot at a disused power station and an amusing scene where the Cat’s selfishness potentially endangers the crew, but hampered by pacing problems, plot holes and a story that’s not *quite* as clever as it thinks it is. Episode 4: White Hole Episode 5: Dimension Jump Episode 6: Meltdown Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This is excellent :-)
I would be concerned about Krysis if I hadn’t seen it filmed. I think it’s a lot more straightforward than the 3 episodes we’ve had. I won’t say much but I came out thinking it was quite funny and it had a really good guest performance. I don’t think people need to be too worried about Krazy Kryten. My only concern (from reading set reports) is there is more contradiction/continuity errors. I know it’s Red Dwarf and things have been subtly retconned in the past but… Doug has said many times he has trouble remembering thing and has relied on fan feedback etc to help jog the memory. That worries me to actually because Doug says that he has so many ideas that he is surprised him and rob didn’t do but is that because he has had enough time to think about new ideas or is it because he barely remembers the past 60 episodes and novels they did and so doesn’t see how ideas are similar to other ideas they may have done, which is not good for the show really. When people call certain similar bits to another episode a nod i tend to wonder whether it actually was a nod or not.
I would be concerned about Krysis if I hadn’t seen it filmed. I think it’s a lot more straightforward than the 3 episodes we’ve had. I won’t say much but I came out thinking it was quite funny and it had a really good guest performance. I don’t think people need to be too worried about Krazy Kryten. I remember set reports claiming it could be the weakest of the new series as it seemed just ok to alot of people.
My only concern (from reading set reports) is there is more contradiction/continuity errors. I know it’s Red Dwarf and things have been subtly retconned in the past but… Doug has said many times he has trouble remembering thing and has relied on fan feedback etc to help jog the memory. Hmm I don’t remember what that was, even after re-reading the set report.
I remember set reports claiming it could be the weakest of the new series as it seemed just ok to alot of people. Based on what we’ve seen so far, and what we know about future episodes, it certainly might be the least ambitious episode of Red Dwarf XI. It’s the only episode I saw and even at the recording I thought that it probably wouldn’t turn out to be the best of the series but I also thought that if it was the worst we were going to be in for one hell of a treat. Given people’s wildly varying opinions on the broadcast episodes I will be interested to see what the reaction is. I’m certainly looking forward to seeing how it has turned out.
Episode 1: Starbug goes through a whirly thing in space, and the crew end up in a drinking establishment on a version of Earth that’s not quite right. Guest appearance by an alternative comedy legend. Episode 2: Two characters find themselves trapped together, and have lengthy conversations to pass the time. Episode 3: Lister gets attacked by a scary monster that wants to remove something from him. The crew skulk around the dingy depths of a spaceship, armed with bazookoids. In the end, the plot is resolved with the help of a lift. Episode 4: Bodyswap Episode 5: Timeslides Episode 6: The Last Day Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
I have to say it out loud as I can’t bottle it up any longer – I can’t be the only person that, based entirely on its open-ended but cruelly seductive official synopsis, has convinced themselves that David Ross is in Krysis to the extent that even if he isn’t they’ll spend the entire first viewing waiting for him to turn up? The space in my brain saved up for that episode is basically entitled “The One Where David Ross Comes Back”, based on fuck-all but my own daydreaming. I hope he is, because that would be brilliant, but *if* he is, they haven’t done a good enough job of disguising it (see also: too many easily-decipherable Can Of Worms clues), and if he *isn’t* then they’ve sort of knowingly implied that he is and that’s even weirder. Obviously I’m going to have to wait 13 days to find out, but I’m looking forward more just to knowing either way than actually watching the episode. It’s been driving me insane. At this very moment I’m leaning towards him not being in it and it just being a 2+2=5 scenario conjured up by my own fanwankitude, but Schrödinger says otherwise. Speaking of casting, when are all these big secret special guests coming up? We’ve had one in the whole first quarter. (I mean, I like Dan Tetsell as much as the next man but no-one was shouting “WOW, HOW DID THEY GET DAN TETSELL!!!” at the screen). Not that the actor who did it wasn’t good (he was!), but the lift in Give & Take seemed a missed opportunity to fit in a proper guest star, whether a ‘name’ name, a TV comedy stalwart, or a nice bit of fan service like getting in Tony Hawks. Given that the cast lists have been one of the most tightly kept secrets, it’s a bit odd that they’ve so far mainly consisted of unknown names. Surely it’d have been better to announce the less well known actors and give them a proper boost off it, and drip-feed the star name reveals closer to pre-broadcast save anyone intended to be a legitimate surprise? That way works for Doctor Who. I just assumed that there was a masterplan to the secrecy regarding the cast lists, but there isn’t. Not unless Mick Jagger and Paul McCartney are in Officer Rimmer playing a pair of randy vending machines. I think I’d just have enjoyed (a) more consistency and (b) more of an endgame to the non-disclosure policy over the last couple of months. As it stands, they’ve missed opportunities to get some more pre-broadcast buzz into the online press and on social media, but also blown by over-sharing a few too many of their own surprises at the same time. They handled it all so well at the recordings, as did the fans, and then it’s just not been channelled as well as it might have been.
I have to say it out loud as I can’t bottle it up any longer – I can’t be the only person that, based entirely on its open-ended but cruelly seductive official synopsis, has convinced themselves that David Ross is in Krysis to the extent that even if he isn’t they’ll spend the entire first viewing waiting for him to turn up? The space in my brain saved up for that episode is basically entitled “The One Where David Ross Comes Back”, based on fuck-all but my own daydreaming. I hope he is, because that would be brilliant, but *if* he is, they haven’t done a good enough job of disguising it (see also: too many easily-decipherable Can Of Worms clues), and if he *isn’t* then they’ve sort of knowingly implied that he is and that’s even weirder. . Where has it been implied? i can’t say i have noticed or heard any hints to david ross coming back? I seen some assume he may because the shot in the trailer tease of what looks like the nova 5 but it is actually the nova 3 and the synopsis described it as them taking kryten to see another droid from his fleet so i dunno. I also didn’t notice any mentions of surprises like that in the set reports which i would have thought would least have been hinted that something particular interesting shows up that we haven’t seen in a while. The idea of david ross coming back is something i am a little mixed on because if he comes back to play a different role that could be interesting but if he comes back to play Kryten again or another droid like kryten it could either add some weirdness to continuity in terms of krytens backstory in episodes like beyond a joke or add weirdness in what they would actually do with david ross as kryten or a kryten type robot.
Continuity’s never bothered them before! In VIII they were going to get David Ross to redub the ‘factory reset’ Kryten until they just had Robert Llewellyn impersonate him instead, which supports the ‘it’s the same robot we saw in series 2 but he’s just been constantly circuit bent, rebuilt, upgraded and hacked to unrecognizability in the meantime, like Trigger’s broom’ (even though it potentially contradicts Beyond A Joke’s “John Warburton”/Mamet’s ex backstory just four episodes later). You could just about make it all mash into place by saying that Kryten was designed neutrally by Mamet as a commission from DivaDroid CEO John Warburton (who went by the smarmy stage name “Jim Reaper” for wanky Steve Jobs-like press conferences), but when Mamet split romantically from him, her parting shot from the company was to issue a new model of spare head (plus the icon of the Data Doctor software) as a crude parody of his image, including a particularly insulting batch which had a weird hooked nose and eye bags. Soon after this, Warburton/Reaper issued Hudzen 10 as a forced upgrade to get all the insults off the market, barring a few renegades and bootlegs like Kryten and Able. So… Able looks like modern Kryten because he’s also several spare heads down the line and sounds similar because his files have been corrupted also. That works, just about, yeah? As for the possibility of Ross in Krysis, I mean surely someone’s playing another robot, rather than them doing an Able again with two Robert Llewellyns? And given that it’s about a changed-beyond-recognition Kryten rediscovering his roots, Christmas Carol/It’s A Wonderful Life-style, on a sister ship to to Nova 5, surely it’s going to be an ‘Kryten’ Kryten? And if you were theoretically casting a ‘Kryten’ Kryten, and knowing also that you had a very talented prosthetics department with lots of recent experience in recreating old BBC Visual Effects make-up jobs for modern HD productions, might you possibly…? Yeah? Maybe? Like I said, I could be wrong. I hope I’m right because David Ross is great, but equally I’m a bit bored of working out all the surprises in advance. I want to be completely and utterly wrong about something.
I wonder if they will address or mention the SS Augustus? Wasn’t that the ship Kryten was on before the Nova series?
Episode 1: Our favourite returning characters find themselves in a new time period, where a woman is having to pretend she’s not as smart as she really turns out to be. With a great appearance this week by a much loved infamous guest star. Episode 2: Death and Morals abound this week in a tale of corpses and crimes punished, will those who deserve it really get whats coming or can cheaters prevail. Episode 3: As the crew set off on another perilsome voyage they, encounter a truly mad eccentric, later find themselves in a quandary over sharing the most intimate of bodily components in order to survive, maybe at the end they will be forced to rethink and go through everything again. Episode 4: Money Episode 5: Beer Episode 6: Chains Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Episode 1: A journey back to an earlier, less technologically-advanced time gives us an opportunity to see a world we’re familiar with but in an earlier period, while a cameo from a slightly camp droid ends up getting a disproportionate amount of fan attention given his screentime. Episode 2: Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, while far too much time is spent on exploring a romantic subplot that we don’t really care about, and everything ends rather abruptly without a feeling of anything really being resolved. Episode 3: Better than the first two, involving an opening act of spaceship destruction on a grand scale, plentiful scenes of body parts being removed, a load of nonsense with a lift, and characters that have previously been portrayed as great friends suddenly being ultra-shitty to each other with minimal attempt to really justify the shift in characterisation. Plus, the final act brings everything full circle and ties up with where we first started following the story. Episode 4: A New Hope Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back Episode 6: Return of the Jedi …no, *you* fuck off.
Episode 1. Victor Meldrew is forced into early retirement, replaced by a box with a few buttons. He has no choice but to face up to his life with his long suffering wife, Margaret, as he fills his time as best he can…. Ahhhhhhoooooooohhhhhactually
when Mamet split romantically from him, her parting shot from the company was to issue a new model of spare head (plus the icon of the Data Doctor software) as a crude parody of his image, including a particularly insulting batch which had a weird hooked nose and eye bags. Soon after this, Warburton/Reaper issued Hudzen 10 as a forced upgrade to get all the insults off the market, barring a few renegades and bootlegs like Kryten and Able. So… Able looks like modern Kryten because he’s also several spare heads down the line and sounds similar because his files have been corrupted also. That works, just about, yeah? What about the replacement Kryten in The Inquisitor?
OK, just watched it and for me it was the best of the 3 we’ve got so far. I’m going to rewatch it again before giving a full on opinion piece but I would say that this actually was enjoyable for me and felt very IV/V/VI Dwarf for me and that’s a very good thing. I’d happily say Give & Take > Samsara > Twentica.
Perhaps the best episode since… dunno, but a long time. I *think*. Really need to see it again. If we divided this episode’s mass by it’s volume, we’d certainly get a big number. Perhaps too big. But really funny and felt like proper Red Dwarf in all sorts of ways. Totally agree about Chris’s performance being better this series. Great to see a skutter, and I absolutely fucking love Snacky and hope we haven’t seen the last of him. I see Captain Bollocks is proving controversial. I do think a few too many jokes in latter day RD rely on repetition but Captain Bollocks worked for me. I’m very amused by the idea of Kryten having his own private insulting nickname for Rimmer, the name of a folder he never intended to say out loud, so the repetition really sold it. Reminded me, in a good way, of Kryten feeling guilty about inadvertently insulting Rimmer’s mother in Polymorph, and making things worse with his apology. > i was abit mixed on kryten and lister tricking the cat into it because it felt like a weird thing for kryten to do and be fine with it Despite what he said to Lister I guess he wasn’t really *totally* fine with it, as evidenced by his stuttery malfunctioning. I’m fine with him, er, being fine with it though, because he only tricked the Cat to save Lister’s life. Only watched Give & Take once and the other two twice but I’m gonna tentatively say Give & Take > Samsara > Twentica > Different Strokes… I can’t watch that now. But I enjoyed it at the time. It had the fat bloke from Maid Marian in it, didn’t it! You mean Brush Strokes, but I like the thought of the fat bloke from Maid Marian being in Diff’rent Strokes. “What’chu talkin’ ’bout, Rabies?”
Just gonna offload my brain here: I have to say, I haven’t enjoyed an episode this much in ages. I enjoy most episodes but I *really* enjoyed this one. The ‘villain’ was incredibly intimidating, whether designed to or not, he creeped me the fuck out. WE’VE GOT SKUTTERS GUYS!! When it indicated to turn right it got a massive laugh from my dad and myself. More Skutters plox! I didn’t mention this on here, but when I saw ‘Captain Bollocks’ on the merchandise. I was instantly irked at the insinuation that we would just *love* this joke having not heard it, but I had totally forgotten about it in the past few weeks, so when the line was blurted out by Bobby I spat my tea across the room. It totally blindsided me, so the point where I had to pause the TV to recover from laughing so hard. I thought it was absolutely fine. I didn’t mind Kryten’s reaction when he reinstated his memory and his reaction reminded me of Polymorph when he insulted Rimmer’s Mother. Lots of feels to previous series but not in a ‘REMEMBER THIS’ kind of way. Not to me anyway. Some fantastic location work, and the models themselves were excellent. The destruction of the Science Base was incredible to look at. I thought the Cat had quite a lot of focus in this episode considering it was quite a Lister-centric episode. I did think the ending just happened. I was quite surprised when the credits rolled all of a sudden, but I enjoyed the rest of the episode too much to be bothered by it. /braindump
Despite what he said to Lister I guess he wasn’t really *totally* fine with it, as evidenced by his stuttery malfunctioning. I’m fine with him, er, being fine with it though, because he only tricked the Cat to save Lister’s life. The stutters malfunction was due to the lie mode wasn’t it? I assumed kryten still struggled with lying and that’s what the malfunction was about.
Yes, but he’s tricking the Cat *by* lying to him. I suppose it’s different if he physically struggles to lie because it’s against his programming than if it’s because he feels guilty, but I’ve always thought those things go together ie he feels guilty about going against his programming.
> I thought the Cat had quite a lot of focus in this episode considering it was quite a Lister-centric episode. Danny has had more to do in Samsara and G&T than any episode since…. ever? I guess he does have a fair few lines in Dear Dave, and lots of funny stuff across X. But here we’ve had actual material for Cat, more than just gags. So that’s a fairly unique element to this series (which is obviously going to be expanded on by the end of the XI…)
>You mean Brush Strokes, but I like the thought of the fat bloke from Maid Marian being in Diff’rent Strokes. “What’chu talkin’ ’bout, Rabies?” Marvellous!
Danny has had more to do in Samsara and G&T than any episode since…. ever? He’ll have had one and two half-episodes in XII, which is two half-episodes more than the entire previous history of Red Dwarf combined. And even then, he doesn’t get THAT much to do in Waiting For God. (The Cat SFX cover seems to be by far the most widely distributed too.) Of course, this also means we’ve arguably got the least Lister stuff in any series of Red Dwarf, which is perhaps a surprise given how Lister-centric BtE and X were.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but what was the point of Snacky mentioning that he’d served with an old member of the crew who they might know? It seemed like it might turn out to be an important part of the plot but was forgotten about immediately.
Presumably it comes up in another episode. The sound effect of the space station exploding immediately after Snacky’s line, seems to be there to stop Rimmer querying it.
You see I thought it was an early hint to them that he was a snack machine rather than Asclepius. Not only the fact that Kryten confirms Asclepius is from the late 23rd century so a little after Rimmer’s time but also Snacky says he “served” Ronald Littlewood which is an odd way of a medi-bot to word it.
You see I thought it was an early hint to them that he was a snack machine rather than Asclepius. Not only the fact that Kryten confirms Asclepius is from the late 23rd century so a little after Rimmer’s time but also Snacky says he “served” Ronald Littlewood which is an odd way of a medi-bot to word it. Best theory yet.
WE’VE GOT SKUTTERS GUYS!! When it indicated to turn right it got a massive laugh from my dad and myself. More Skutters plox! I feel exactly the same way. I’m really hoping they not only actively contribute to at least one plot but will be seen hanging out in the background on episodes set aboard Red Dwarf itself. These guys should be the mascot of the show. Even though I love the little bastards, I still want to see them adapt the bit from Infinity where Rimmer’s arrogance results in the destruction of every skutter on Red Dwarf. I always thought that was a fantastic moment of embarrassingly avoidable crushing defeat.
I’m really surprised nobody (?) so far has mentioned the previous appearance of “Captain Bollocks” in a smeg-up from Terrorform (https://youtu.be/SdfP8ltnJw0?t=534). Housemate and I found it so memorable that we turned it into an in-joke years ago – and found it hilarious when it appeared on the merch! Surely we can’t be the only ones who’ve watched those smeg-ups too many times? :P Yet more excellent work from Doug’s subconscious memory there. After all, Bobby did deliver it very well the first time he improvised it – it deserved a wider airing! ;)
Just noticed this tweet by Andrew Ellard regarding Ronald Littlewood: https://twitter.com/ellardent/status/784361687793139713
