DwarfCast 92 – Live Timewave Instant Reaction DwarfCasts Posted by Ian Symes on 21st October 2017, 13:06 Subscribe to DwarfCasts: RSS • iTunes Who’d have thought it: the episode about a place where criticism is illegal is the one that’s attracted more criticism than any other this series. Join John Hoare, Tanya Jones, Danny Stephenson, Ian Symes and the Fan Club’s Jo Sharples for a spot of criticising, castigating, chiding, blaming, harping, panning and scoffing at Timewave. It’s not pretty at times, but I’d like to think we at least covered the reasons why we reacted so badly to the episode, and we were aided by two fantastic guests – Shelley Smith and Dan Pendleton – to give their perspectives on some of the trickier topics. The brilliant subjects that we really enjoyed discussing to death included the problematic portrayal of the Enconium’s crew, Cat’s problematic attitude to women, unresolved plots, repetitive jokes and speedy resolutions. Plus, for the second week in a row we discuss the word “clitoris” and Operation Yewtree, although not at the same time. On the plus side, there are positive comments at a rate of roughly one every twelve minutes, a brief preview of the next episode, and… well, the intro music’s pretty catchy this week. DwarfCast 92 – Live Timewave Instant Reaction (86.3MB) As usual, a very big thank you to everyone who listened along and commented live, and an extra special thank you to our correspondents Shelley Smith and Dan Pendleton. We’ll be back for what we’re hoping will be a much more upbeat Live DwarfCast on Friday 27th October at 9pm. Before that, Tanya’s in-depth written review of Timewave will be along in the next few days. Worry balls on standby.
1. John Hoare your voice is lovely and your passion is laudable and I want to marry you a bit 2. Who does the voiceover on the furniture advert? It wasn’t that obvious to me 3. Thank you all for putting together a lovely podcast
Also could someone on the show maybe have fixed the kerning in the WAVE bit of the episode title do you think.
I’d like the point out that, although my comment about finding a lot of the jokes funny and thus the episode having good comedic value was read out as an example of “if you’re just watching it for laughs it’s not so shit”, I did still think the episode was mostly shit.
> included the problematic portrayal of the Enconium’s crew You might even say the portrayal of the Enconium’s crew was… Encominy-class writing! I bet you’re all really disappointed I wasn’t able to join in on the comments for this one now.
Who does the voiceover on the furniture advert? It wasn’t that obvious to me The ads star Captain Herring and Young Rimmer. A Red Dwarf double.
Who does the voiceover on the furniture advert? It wasn’t that obvious to me The ads star Captain Herring and Young Rimmer. A Red Dwarf double. Thanks! I forgive myself for not spotting that.
Any chance we (mostly I) could get the Spreaker links in these updates as well, please? For the comments.
Any chance we (mostly I) could get the Spreaker links in these updates as well, please? For the comments. https://www.spreaker.com/user/4893644/live-timewave-instant-reaction On a separate note; of the two jokes that I was sure would come in for some flack, I’m surprised that one of them is being held up as a funny bit. The BBC groped bottom was the first one and the second was the old guy prancing around calling himself a fruit. Considering the history of the word as a gay slur, especially by people of his generation, that one felt especially uncomfortable to me.
Bit of a stretch to reach that conclusion given that preceding line is “we all all part of the tree of life and, on the tree, you are a fruit” which gives it some context.
I still think the most troubling thing about it is people assuming that camp = gay, granted he did say Lister had a cute voice but that doesn’t imply anything sexual
Bit of a stretch to reach that conclusion given that preceding line is “we all all part of the tree of life and, on the tree, you are a fruit” which gives it some context. I would agree. Context is everything.
I still think the most troubling thing about it is people assuming that camp = gay, granted he did say Lister had a cute voice but that doesn’t imply anything sexual Doesn’t help to sway that idea either Hitler did similar with Listers jacket. Its abit of a stereotype.
I’m more and more convinced after third watch the target or inspiration of a fare part of timewave is dougs experiences in Los Angeles. Focusing on the gay stereotype as a subtext, is what is getting more noise in reaction from people, and i understand why people see that, but not the biggest part i think, more dougs fish out water feeling as a writer in LA where the whole world is different makes far more sense to me as a seed for this. Beyond the “diner” which is a very american style place of eating, crap food , “rollerskates” being a beach santamonica boulevard thing out there, the flag design of the waitresses outfit, outlandish clothes, over positivity and then what pendo says is flirty “noticing listers accent as cute” its not so much a subtle come on, its fat more something you get a lot in America when you go over and people hear you are english. I’m even starting to wonder if doug started a very early version of this script as an idea back at the time of returning from failed US pilot days and then just put it to one side.
I still think the most troubling thing about it is people assuming that camp = gay, granted he did say Lister had a cute voice but that doesn’t imply anything sexual Doesn’t help to sway that idea either Hitler did similar with Listers jacket. Its abit of a stereotype. What’s a stereotype? Gay men complement other men on their voices and jackets?!?!? To be honest, for all the talk of campness, it was only really Ziggy out of all the characters that was overtly camp and even then I didn’t get the vibe that the character was meant to be a) gay, and b) that he was being ridiculed for being gay. What I do see is a direction where Doug is trying to get across some sort of idea of the childish personality of people who need to be wrapped in cotton wool as it were (whether we think thats a fair target or not) and not brought to account for their ‘failings’, but the way that was then played was so broad as to come across as camp, which then can be seen to imply a homophobia that I don’t really think is there. Ziggy’s comment on Lister’s accent was the kind of thing that is said by someone who can onoy deal with the trivial and not the serious (i.e. the potential crash on planet Rimmer). Not flirting. But so what if it was? Ziggy’s sexuality wasn’t ever really seriously addressed and nor should it have been. It was irrelevent. I’d be more concerned if it was another bent bob situation to be honest. Now that was near the knuckle…
I guess it just stood out to me, as it’s one of many of the more colourful terms my Dad still uses on a regular basis to describe the dancers on Strictly. Maybe if they’d stuck him in the giant raspberry fancy dress outfit, the fruit would have been easier to swallow.
That fruit line came across as “a bit much” for me, too. Context is everything, I agree, but then the preamble should have been changed to clear up the confusion. Or it should have been omitted to sidestep a terrible innuendo about fruit meaning homosexual. Delete as applicable. I don’t put anti-gay stuff (or at least ‘slightly homophobic, confused older man’ stuff) past Doug, to be honest. He hasn’t got a great track record. It’s not THAT hard not to sound like Dick Emery.
The Cat’s *controversial* line cannot be excused, but it’s exactly the same as the ‘slag’ line in that they are looking for a big, cheap laugh going into the break. Much like the Hitler selfie, Doug has obviously planned the episode breaks this time around, and making sure there’s a big laugh going into them. Of course…..the line is ridiculous and surely there must have been SOMETHING else the Cat could have said instead of that….?? The other reason for Cat’s behaviour in that scene IMO is them trying to do a bit of a parody of a scene from some movie….I can’t think which movie it is but I swear I’ve heard Eddie Murphy say ‘Lieutenant Asshole’ and the other line to a cop….I don’t think it’s Trading Places but it’s something like that. Anyway, there’s still no reason for it!! It’s the whole George Lucas syndrome again in that no-one is daring to say ‘no’ or ‘hmmm maybe try something else?’ :p or maybe they are suggesting it and Doug’s like ‘nah, you’re alright’ :p
My secondary school’s library had Spaceballs: The Book, a novelisation by R.L. Stine and I read it before I ever saw the film. All the swearing and anything remotely risqué was removed or altered for the book. The above scene became the “Major Idiot” scene. You can imagine my delight when I eventually saw the film.
That is *exactly* what I imagined Stine doing before he started writing shitty horror books for children.
I’m wondering that myself, Pete. I don’t remember it being “instant books” instead. I’m gonna have to buy it now.
I talked to my friend about RDXII today and said the first episode was alright, second was tremendous and third was dreadful, then talked a bit about how why Timewave was so shite, and he said “I need to check that out”, so he might just watch it as his first episode, but he already knows it’s the worst in the entire series so I think he’s alright
I watched Cured and Siliconia three times on the first day they came out. I still haven’t revisited Timewave.
Some of the discussion on this podcast about the Cat’s out-of-character insult, and the elaborate cosplay costumes, made me think about other potential routes the episode’s story could have taken. What if you had one of the Red Dwarf crew who actually *likes* being on a ship with no criticism? Cat being criticised for the way he dresses is not something that normally happens. Maybe on the moon at the start of the episode, the Cat is wearing a customised spacesuit, but Rimmer tries to enforce a regulation that the planet-claiming ceremony must take place in approved JMC uniforms. Then they all arrive on the ship and its crew all start complimenting Cat on his clothes – perhaps some of them are already dressed in a similar dandy fashion to him, or some start copying his clothes. Cat relishes this and doesn’t want to leave. You could still have Cat be the one to get everyone arrested for saying the wrong thing, but it would be an inadvertent criticism of someone’s clothing, rather than the rant he does in the episode.
I’m sure everyone’s already moved on, but I’d just like to state for the record that there are 3 Red Dwarf-based scenes in the first 3 episodes of Series XII, not 2. The one you forgot was at the end of Siliconia, when Lister is getting ready to play his guitar.
