AWOOGA! Pearl Poll Closing Soon! Quickies Posted by Ian Symes on 25th January 2018, 07:40 UPDATE: The Pearl Poll is now closed! A huge and heartfelt thank you to everyone who took part – the response has exceeded our expectations. Look out for the results on Thursday 15th February… Where does the time go? The Pearl Poll launched back in the dim distant past of 2017, and yet here we are – only a week away from the cut-off point for entries. We’ve had a fantastic response so far – and a huge thank you to you all – but we know that there are still dozens of G&T regulars, along with other stalwarts from elsewhere in the fandom, who are yet to send us their rankings. So this is your gentle reminder that THE PEARL POLL CLOSES AT MIDNIGHT ON THE 1ST OF FEBRUARY. You’ve essentially got seven days left to get your episodes in order, and take part in our most comprehensive survey yet. So you lot crack on with your lists, while we continue to prep for our 30th anniversary extravaganza. If we’ve seemed a little quiet so far this year, it’s because we’re busy putting everything together for the big day, which will feature thousands of words, multiple graphs, video, music and of course a Live DwarfCast. You might want to set aside some time on Thursday 15th February, because we’ll have plenty to keep you occupied.
Thanks for the reminder. Sort of. I said to myself this morning “must do the Pearl Poll.” So went to do it and was told I should do it. Or something. Anyway all done. Now the wait for the results begins…
Planning on finishing my series rewatch this weekend to finally submit it. Done a lot more tinkering with the list as I’ve gone along than I expected.
If we’ve seemed a little quiet so far this year, it’s because we’re busy putting everything together for the big day, which will feature thousands of words, multiple graphs, video, music and of course a Live DwarfCast. You might want to set aside some time on Thursday 15th February, because we’ll have plenty to keep you occupied. You won’t be writing every word after the poll results come in? Outrageous.
That was the most difficult episode ranking poll for Red Dwarf I’ve completed. Series 5 & 6 had real competition this time and it came from series 12 and 11. My first series owned on pre recorded video was 5 followed by 6 and their repeat watch value then was high and remains so and for me that’s true with 12 and 11. Having said that one episode from 11 and 12 were low down on the list but also one from 5 and 6 were too. Of the others series 2 remained strong overall but 7 and 10 slipped a little. I knew 1st (Gunmen) and last (BitR 2) and a few either side of top and bottom but the majority in the middle was like trying to rank your kids, pets and friends. Despite all the thought beforehand of ranking each series into episode order, watching a few to refresh my memory, it boiled down to what would I want to watch next now so the middle section could easily change on a different day, different mood. Some of those lower ranked are not bad, they’re pretty damn good but I just prefer another one by a scintilla of margin.
but the majority in the middle was like trying to rank your kids, pets and friends Easier than you’d think and strangely worthwhile?
but the majority in the middle was like trying to rank your kids, pets and friends Easier than you’d think and strangely worthwhile? Worthwhile? Not personally but it’s worth appreciating them while you can.
You won’t be writing every word after the poll results come in? Outrageous. I won’t be starting on the poll write-up until after it’s closed, but we can prep almost all the other things on that list.
Just to clarify, as I’m trying to cram in as much of a re-watch as possible, do I need to submit on January 31st? I’m assuming I do, but I’m also hoping “midnight on Feb 1st” means “Feb 1st inclusive” in the way that some people like to bastardise the idea of midnight being the end of a day rather than the start of it.
We should do a poll on which Kryten costume is the best. I’ve never felt more like I’m just looking at a man in a costume than with VIII’s Kryten getup. It’s like if the American pilot Kryten costume was just a bit less shit.
Well, I still think of the costume introduced in series VI as ‘The new one’, so I’ll go for the classic III-V one.
Back to Earth. Or four. Or five. Or six. Or (shock horror) seven, but probably not. Not two. Not three, he was too sweaty. No eight, definitely not ten, sorry eleven and twelve but no dice.
kryten’s series iii costume scares me because the head makes him look like a bloke who was attacked by a ham slicer, rather than any sort of robot. its a bit grotesque his series v costume is the best imo
the head makes him look like a bloke who was attacked by a ham slicer One for Doug’s list of potential Kryten insults, there. Yeah in Series III he looks like a sweaty man who just came off a rough course of chemotherapy. Why IS he so wet? Is it just sweat seeping through his mask? Eww.
I will never understand the love for the Series V Kryten suit. The mask is decent sure, but the suit itself looks really cheap to me, like they just shoved him into rubber coveralls with plastic bits glued onto it in several places, rather than having one cohesive shell. Series VI Kryten beyond a doubt is the best.
I mostly think of the head when I’m asked “best Kryten”, but yes I think even mask included VI is probably best. I really don’t like the modern gray one.
the kryten costume in Series II was also quite shit but i feel like it sort of gets away with it. the plastic butler outfit makes it seem like kryten is meant to look intentionally cheap and tacky, so i sort of buy into the idea that a legit robot would look so bizarre
I just powered through and submitted my poll. I’d never really thought about which were my favourites and which I hated, so it was quite an interesting exercise to go thorugh. Had I realised I’d got tomorrow as well I might have given it a little more time but hey ho, gut reaction is probably more accurate.
Yeah, Trojan was quite good on rewatch. I still hate pig racing and the (late) mock-the-week-tier Scottish supermarket joke, though.
I just cannot get over Doug Naylor, or anybody else, thinking that THAT was a good thing to start your first series in over a decade on. Somebody thinking that pig racing and the incredibly weak “you fat pig” line was SO funny/interesting that it deserved to open X. If it was a midseries throwaway gag I’d probably never even think about it
Future TV is funny i guess. The phone subplot is what ruins Trojan for me, its just a modern day phone operators piss take that could be done in any sitcom really. Infact it probably makes less sense being in Red Dwarf going by the concept of the show vs the idea.
I was so excited by a new series of Dwarf being on, and by all accounts it’s a return to the classic era. Pig racing was a massive slap in the face, and my expectations were shot. But then the Cat and Rimmer moose gag came along and all was rescued. I wonder if expectations play into my overall low ratings of Twentica and Cured, both of which are my least favourite of their respective series (other than Timewave, which obviously has its own sub-category). I don’t mind the phone plot in Trojan because of Kryten’s bloody brilliant bicycle gag.
Finally submitted my contribution! My strategy was to pick out my favourite episode from each series first, rank just those, and then judge where my second, third etc. favourites from each series fit into the list individually. Got through it surprisingly quickly. I’ve been a fan of this show for quite a while, but I’ve never had a clear favourite episode before now. What better way to learn what your fave is than by going “No… I guess I wouldn’t rank this episode higher. Huh.” 72 times? Looking forward to seeing how normal I am! (Statistically.)
My strategy was to pick out my favourite episode from each series first, rank just those, and then judge where my second, third etc. favourites from each series fit into the list individually. I do similar, but from the other end (stop it). I rank each series individually, then integrate them, but start from the bottom (I said stop it). I think it’s easier to look at them afterwards and say ‘no, *that’s* worse than that…’
Interested to see whether there will be more or less than the 228 responses to the Silver Survey. Normally I’d expect a drop off to be inevitable after 5 years but this site still seems very lively and Dwarf is arguably more popular now than it was then.
I had a friend dump a link to it in a rather large Red Dwarf fan group on Facebook that I had left for being full of idiots, so hopefully that attracted a few people from outside our bubble. Or maybe they ignored it and just went on misquoting the same four lines and shoehorning “smeg” into every other sentence.
I had a friend dump a link to it in a rather large Red Dwarf fan group on Facebook that I had left for being full of idiots, so hopefully that attracted a few people from outside our bubble. Or maybe they ignored it and just went on misquoting the same four lines and shoehorning “smeg” into every other sentence. Most of them ignored it and are still misquoting the same four lines as we speak. You’re perfectly safe.
Problem with letting people out of this bubble into it is some of those people like VIII. The point was to include as many different types of fans as possible. Also, I think a lot more people dislike VIII than let on about it in those groups, but I could be wrong.
I specifically got someone to take the survey because they put Back to Earth in the top spots… Every vote needs spoilers.
>I specifically got someone to take the survey because they put Back to Earth in the top spots… Are they corrie fans by any chance?
What time of day will it be posted? I need to know so I don’t accidentally, say, wank over the release.
I will wank to the release, but I intend not to miss the release due to wanking. Although I will probably be asleep, seeing as how “in the morning” there is “before 5am” here.
Timewave would’ve been saved if they had just done all the instruments in the end credits really off-key. I was so excited by a new series of Dwarf being on, and by all accounts it’s a return to the classic era. Pig racing was a massive slap in the face, and my expectations were shot. I don’t quite see how opening with Lister just fucking around on Red Dwarf is a massive slap in the face. It’s just…there. That’s how he’s wasting time before Cat shows up. It’s not even the focus of the scene or anything, it’s done in ten seconds. I guess my question is why are you so racist against pigs? And don’t tell me you’ve got loads of pig friends, that doesn’t mean anything. Hell, I bet you think every pig in the race looks exactly the same, you swinist twat. Also, I think a lot more people dislike VIII than let on about it in those groups, but I could be wrong. My experience is that people in those groups are free to shit on VII and Back to Earth with reckless abandon, but VIII is as untouchable as Back to Reality.
I didn’t even remember the pig racing, it’s just a short “he’s bored and watching any kind of crap on telly” type gag that was done and gone. If we’re hating on Trojan it’s the whole call centre on hold sub-plot that was bloody awful and should have been dropped. It feels like there’s a lot of sub-plots in newer Dwarf that really don’t add to the experience and only distract from the main story being told. That and the stupid face with beach ball of death effect. Just made me think they realised there weren’t enough gags and thought they’d throw in a few stupid faces for a cheap laugh. Yeah, not a fan of Trojan.
Red Dwarf X was written much more like a traditional sitcom than previous Dwarf had been, I felt, with its A plot/B plot formula. It was really weird. The spinning beach balls of doom were funny, imo, drawing a moustache on wasn’t. I’m pretty sure the concept of negativity building up to kill a synthetic life form is the plot of Beyond A Joke.
I don’t quite see how opening with Lister just fucking around on Red Dwarf is a massive slap in the face. I thought ‘pig racing’ as well as Craig’s over-the-top actions were really broad and terrible. It just felt very VIII to me and put me in a bad mood.
Trojan stood out as odd to me when i first watched it and i think thats because of the way Doug writes the show these days. its just the idea of the Dwarfers helping Rimmer by pretending to be a crew on the Trojan just to serve his ego which felt blackadder-ish and not the sort of thing the show has done with the characters before. Saying that though alot of that stuff has grown on me as a one off, its just the phone subplot that still holds it back.
Am I the only one who finds the phone subplot (and its eventual payoff when someone finally answers) quite amusing? I like Trojan a lot. I ranked it just below The Beginning but actually I think it might be my favourite episode of X.
I like Trojan. Best of X. The shit bits are shit, but they’re less shit than the shit bits in The Beginning.
> “Am I the only one who finds the phone subplot (and its eventual payoff when someone finally answers) quite amusing?” < Not at all – I thought the payoff worked incredibly well. Craig overplays it a little bit, admittedly, but that scene genuinely makes me belly-laugh.
Craig overplays it a little bit, admittedly Yeah, I think that shot is just a second or two too long.
By the time lister gets to the “I am the last human being alive” part of the rant I think it goes on abit long.
I’m pretty sure the concept of negativity building up to kill a synthetic life form is the plot of Beyond A Joke. Yeah, and Trojan does a much better job with the idea. Applying it to Rimmer is obviously far more appropriate than Kryten.
Just went back and looked at my rankings. Decided that it’s only my bottom 13 that have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and I wouldn’t care if I ever saw again. 1 from VII, 7 from VIII, 1 from BTE, 2 from X, 1 from XI, 1 from XII.
Just looked at mine, and I’d say there were sixteen episodes that I’d classify as “crap” or worse. 5 from VII, 7 from VIII, 1 from each of the Daves.
Mine is also 13 irredeemables – six from VII, six from VIII, one from XII, plus one from VIII which I consider borderline.
the only episode i could truly call “bad” would be Timewave. all the others i can get some enjoyment out of. even Pete has the discussion about airplane toilets, which usually gets a laugh out of me because of how ridiculous it is.
None of the Doug solo era reached by top 30 sadly but Skipper reached number 37 if that counts as something.
I put Better Than Life in 70th place. It really just doesn’t hit the spot for me, for whatever reason.
I put one post-36 episode in 11th place. The Beginning? The crazy thing is how, when it comes down to it, Timewave would never sit at the bottom of my list….. mainly because it DOES have quite a few redeeming features, unlike, say, Nanarchy, Only The Good…, Can of Worms. Yeah, overall it’s pretty deranged, but you can’t really knock the guest cast (the way Ziggy is pitched, perhaps….), they were actually too good for the episode, and him-from-Broadchurch was especially wasted, in a similar way as him-from-Rock-&-Chips was in Siliconia.
No, The Beginning and Trojan were both a bit lower down for me, along with other good Dave offerings like M-Corp, Officer Rimmer and Mechocracy (still all within the top-36 though). My highest-ranking Dave-era episode is Give & Take.
I put a whopping 10 Dave-era episodes in my top 36! Though I’m not 100% sure why people keep saying “top 36”. Is it because that’s half the total number, or because we still can’t let go of the idea that all of good Red Dwarf should fit into 6 series worth of episodes?
Though I’m not 100% sure why people keep saying “top 36”. Is it because that’s half the total number, or because we still can’t let go of the idea that all of good Red Dwarf should fit into 6 series worth of episodes? A holdover from the pre-X era, when consensus held that the 36 episodes of I-VI were the classic run and everything that came after was generally inferior. If you decided that Cassandra and/or Tikka to Ride was actually better than some of the least best classics, you could proudly consider yourself a very progressive fan indeed. Fortunately, we’ve been given a lot more to work with since (and it seems like VII’s getting more appreciation these days too).
As I’ve said elsewhere, this is the first time there’s been a survey where the idea of the “original 36” bubble has really been punctured. Now the number of VII-XII episodes outnumbers them; now there are some episodes from outside that bubble in multiple series with a general consensus that they’re great, whereas last time around the only post-VI episodes in the top 36 were Tikka, Trojan and The Beginning; now the Dave era is better integrated, whereas prior to XI every series after I-VI was years after the last one and looked and felt very different; and before 2009 we had the original 36 and two series that were largely agreed to be shit. Hell, even between 2009 and 2012 it was two series that were largely agreed to be shit and a mini-series that deeply divided opinion. Series X was the first time the “I-VI bubble” was seriously challenged at all.
I count 12 episodes in my top 36 that were not from the first 36. That’s one third of them. I guess I went at that bubble with a very sharp knife… Also my lowest season XII episode is not Timewave. I think XII is the most divisive series for me actually; two are in my top 25, and two are in my bottom 5. (It was such a relief to get to M-Corp…)
Series X was the first time the “I-VI bubble” was seriously challenged at all. You would hope so otherwise there would be 6 series of subpar stuff in the Doug solo era… which is quite depressing. Although thats kinda how i feel about it
I have 11 Dave era episodes in my Top 36, all from Series X, XI and XII. XI has fared the best of any non I-VI series. I suspect a lot of this was being able to fully appreciate the episodes upon airing, whereas the whole of I-VIII I had watched a million times well before I even got half the jokes. Scenes like the shrinking boxer shorts completely flew over my head beyond the shrinking boxer shorts themselves. I’d hardly call that scene the most brilliant joke Red Dwarf ever did, but after seeing how hard my girlfriend laughed at it, I can’t help but feel left out that as a kid I didn’t understand that Rimmer thought Lister was fucking Kryten. I can’t even see the groinal attachment as genitalia, it just seems so useful and functional. XI and XII were the first series I saw that aired when I was an actual adult. X aired when I was in high school, and quite a bit more willing to love new Red Dwarf pretty unquestioningly and not notice which bits were pretty off. I still feel very positively about X as a whole, even the weakest parts. However, even though I very much enjoy the individual episodes when I watch them, I can’t help but feel kinda down on XII as a whole after it suffered from a lot of the same issues we’d just spent a solid year analyzing in XI. For the first time we weren’t going in blind to a new Dave series that was a direct response to perceived flaws in the last, we were going into one that was written alongside it. And God help me, I just cannot understand why they kept recycling the same exact model shot with the same exact music cue when there were so many of both available. It also doesn’t help that Timewave fell right in the middle, where XI had given us Give & Take. To me, XI had a straight winning streak that hit its peak with Give & Take and Officer Rimmer. Can of Worms doesn’t really compare, but I still find it an enjoyable watch. I’m much more frustrated by what it fails to do than by what it did, if that makes sense. Timewave actively frustrates me, and it came after only two episodes. As I’ve probably mentioned in the past, I was deeply struggling with real life bullshit that lasted the same six weeks as XII was airing, so those new episodes had become my respite. It was something that excited me enough to pull me out of that garbage for just a while, and then Timewave comes along being the worst episode of the Dave Era. Timewave has since graduated in my mind from “ugh” to “meh”. It has a few good jokes, and it’s nowhere near as slow, tedious and mindless as the average VIII episode despite how utterly misguided the satire is. But at the time, given what was riding on it entertaining me, its mediocrity left me straight up depressed after viewing. And I use that word very literally. If I’d seen that stereotypical anti-millennial pap in any other show I’d be ranting about it, but with Red Dwarf I can’t help but feel more offended that it just wasn’t a funny or well-constructed episode.
If it wasn’t for the fact there was a XI-XII style social commentary message in timewave id almost say it belonged in Series 8. Series 8 was silly for the sake of silly while Timewave seemed like it was trying to say something with its sillyness Still sucked though.
Not saying it didn’t suck, but in the slight distinctions I place between episodes from each series they each seem to be the ones not fitting.
Is it just me, or did Can of Worms feel more like it belonged in CII Yes, but in fairness once you get to the 102nd series the quality is bound to slip a little.
Honestly I don’t see that much difference between XI and XII, apart from the obvious superficial stuff. Aside from Skipper acting as an obvious finale (and Twentica to a lesser extent feeling like an big comeback episode), I think you could move a lot of them from one series to the other and they would still feel at home.
I have 5 Dave era hits in my top 36 – Cured / Officer Rimmer / The Beginning / Fathers and Suns / M-Corp (Skipper was 37!).
Is it just me, or did Can of Worms feel more like it belonged in CII and Timewave in XI? I think you’re a bit optimistic there with the idea that Red Dwarf will run for anywhere near 102 series. Edit: I thought of the joke before seeing Dave’s post, screw you Dave, grr
Honestly I don’t see that much difference between XI and XII, apart from the obvious superficial stuff. Aside from Skipper acting as an obvious finale (and Twentica to a lesser extent feeling like an big comeback episode), I think you could move a lot of them from one series to the other and they would still feel at home. I might be the only person who sees anything like this, but I honestly felt a difference, although maybe it’s just a bit of a placebo. XI felt like it was trying to be more independent and grounded and yet tried to match the creativity of the old series, whereas XII felt more like it tried to come up with sorta clever stories that don’t quite fit as well as you might have hoped to induce a fuckton of nostalgic back-references (more present in the second half than the first, but I definitely felt it to a lesser extent in Siliconia and maybe even Cured). Now that I say that, maybe Cured and Samsara feel like they would be more at home in each others’ series as well, but not to quite the degree I see it for Timewave and Can of Worms.
If Can of Worms were in Series XII instead of XI, it would be called “Wormcan”. If Timewave were in Series XI instead of XII, it would be called “Time Wave”.
Yes, but in fairness once you get to the 102nd series the quality is bound to slip a little. “Hi, Doug Naylor here, I know some of you were expecting me to announce a new series of Red Dwarf, but I’m afraid that’s not the case. What I can announce, though, is ninety new series of Red Dwarf, all to be made concurrently and broadcast in 2019.”
“If you do come to a recording, please don’t spoil anything. That’s for me, the cast, the people at Dave and probably some guy on Twitter who doesn’t care about such policies.”
“All three Hollys will be making return appearances at some point in the ninety series. I do of course mean Norman, Hattie and David, who will make his first appearance in season 27, leave the show in season 34, and return again in season 80.”
I might be the only person who sees anything like this, but I honestly felt a difference, although maybe it’s just a bit of a placebo. XI felt like it was trying to be more independent and grounded and yet tried to match the creativity of the old series, whereas XII felt more like it tried to come up with sorta clever stories that don’t quite fit as well as you might have hoped to induce a fuckton of nostalgic back-references I can see that angle, and Can Of Worms would definitely fit with all the nostalgic back-references of the last few episodes of XII. But I don’t really see the grounded/wacky split between XI and XII that has been referenced as far back as the set reports. Stuff like Siliconia and Mechocracy is no more outlandish than Officer Rimmer or Twentica for me. Timewave is the only real standout moment of weirdness, and, well… it’s Timewave.
I think the weirdness of XII was definitely less overt than we’d been expecting from the set reports. For me, the main difference between the series came in the form of M-Corp and Skipper, neither of which felt in the slightest that they were trying to ape earlier aspects of the show (despite the number of back references). To me both episodes felt incredibly fresh and revitalised, as if Doug had really hit his stride and was ready to take the show off in exciting new ways. They felt like I expected XII to feel from the set reports.
There’s something about the writing and production of Skipper that means, although it has more callbacks to the past than any other episode, it still felt exciting and new, whilst, say, the opening scene of Twentica really felt like Doug sat down to write a VI-esque cockpit scene to me.
OK, flanl3, I’ll bite… I put three post-XII episodes in 15th place. But why did you combine three post-XII episodes into one position though?
The opening of Twentica felt like a very deliberate attempt to do VI again, it felt kind of… gratuitous. At least the stuff with kidnapping Rimmer from the future was really funny, and made it worthwhile. Re-watching that scene leaves less of a foul taste in my mouth and I can enjoy it for what it is. Which is pretty good.
I’m interested to hear from somebody who’s only recently discovered the show and watched all 12 series in order.
I’m interested to hear from somebody who’s only recently discovered the show and watched all 12 series in order. Hear what, exactly?
At least the stuff with kidnapping Rimmer from the future was really funny, and made it worthwhile. Yes, I still think that’s brilliant. But a lot of the other dialogue felt incredibly heavy handed to me, and is one of the reasons it’s my least favourite XI episode.
>I’m interested to hear from somebody who’s only recently discovered the show and watched all 12 series in order. I made my ex watch them all. I and II were a ‘bit boring’. III to VII were ‘good’. VIII he thought was silly and kept asking when would it go back to normal (but didn’t actually hate) BTE he walked out on when they got to the corrie bit. X he thought wasn’t funny and only liked Lemons. I can’t get him to watch XI or XII as he says “it’s shit now”
I imagine this series would be a little jarring to watch S1 to S12 in order because you can’t get used to any particular feel of the series since the series 1 and 2 feel lasts for 2 series and then changes at 3 to 5 and then 6 changes a little bit in concept, 7 gets abit more drama-ish, 8 gets silly, BTE is wtf, X is like a modern restart that you either feel is like the older series or don’t, and XI and XI is a slightly more relaxed step in the new restarted modern direction. There is a familiarity thread that runs through it all but still.
I made my ex watch them all. Was he your ex BEFORE he said II was a bit boring and that he didn’t hate VIII?
Was he your ex BEFORE he said II was a bit boring and that he didn’t hate VIII? The spilt was between X and XI. Now I’m not saying that there was sexual bribery to get him to the earlier shows in the first place, but the change of situation certainly may influence the lack of interest in XI and XII.
>Am I the only person who let no post-Grant episodes into the top 36? Was that done on principle, or just how it came to be?
Am I the only person who let no post-Grant episodes into the top 36? Probably not. But as Lily says, is that just a point of principal or do you genuinely believe that the absolute worst I-VI episode is still better than the absolute best VII-XII? I don’t know if it will be a stat given, but I’d be interested to know what the greatest number of non-I-VI episodes in the Top 36 was amongst the surveys. I think it was 7 for me, which I imagine was one of the higher. Apart from any idiot who ranked Skipper as 1 and then backwards chronologically from there, I wonder if anyone had more than 10 post-Grant episodes break the “bubble”?
I had the Grant Naylor bubble in tact for the Silver Survey, but this time round that has been penetrated.
No Post-Grant episodes have entered my top 30, but 3 have entered my Top 36. One from each full Dave series.
I got 6. Give & Take, M-Corp, Officer Rimmer, Trojan, Mechrocracy and Krysis are better than Confidence and Paranoia, Parallel Universe, Psirens, Meltdown, Waiting For God and shitty old Emohawk. Yeah, and if anyone disagrees; I’ll see you in the playground at lunchtime.
All of the Post-Grant episodes made my next 30 something episodes after the 36 if that counts? I also put the 37 episodes that I didnt put in the top 36 in the 37 places after the top 36.
I also put the 37 episodes that I didnt put in the top 36 in the 37 places after the top 36 That’s weird, as I did the opposite – I put the 36 episodes that I didnt put in the top 37 in the 36 places after the top 37. I feel so silly now!
Was he your ex BEFORE he said II was a bit boring and that he didn’t hate VIII? The spilt was between X and XI. Now I’m not saying that there was sexual bribery to get him to the earlier shows in the first place, but the change of situation certainly may influence the lack of interest in XI and XII. So what you are you saying is. Due to some XXXX, Watched I to X then EX so no XI XII.
Stuff like Trojan, The Beginning, M-Corp, Twentica, Give & Take pee all over (figuratively) some of the pre-split 36. Of course, it’s all personal preference… and the fact that I hate/dislike some VI episodes with a passion that has grown over the past 10 years or so. Psirens, for one……. A relatively recent rewatch of VI, VII and VIII made me appreciate parts of VII more than I ever did before. Beyond A Joke, for instance. In fact, that episode might not have felt too out of place in XI/XII, if shot a little differently. I also feel like the only one who doesn’t hate Duct Soup with a passion.
>I also feel like the only one who doesn’t hate Duct Soup with a passion. There’s bits I don’t like, but I don’t hate it with a passion.
I’ve think I’ve missed something here… why is Psirens notably poor in the view of some people? Genuinely interested.
I like Psirens although I don’t know if it has much in the way of extra depth on multiple viewings like some episodes do. Still perfectly good though. It was 34 on my list.
Honestly i kinda miss episodes where the threat was actually a quite a serious threat. There is a little bit of it in the Dave era here and there but there is also a fair few goofy villains going on. Psirens is a monster of the week style episode with the first half also feeling like an exposition dump, but i still like the episode for what it is.
I think one of the reasons why Asclepius was so well-received was that he was a return to the tone of quite scary villains like Langstrom, the Inquisitor and the Psirens.
It feels something of a relief saying this but there are actually 2 episodes from VII in my Top 36… Duct Soup is one of them… (#29 in fact…)
There are two episodes from VII in my top.. actually shit I need to ask for my ranking to be sent to me so i can join in
I think one of the reasons why Asclepius was so well-received was that he was a return to the tone of quite scary villains like Langstrom, the Inquisitor and the Psirens. i always thought the scariest villains recently were the M.I.L.Fs from Siliconia, they’re really disturbing and the idea of them turning humans into mechanoid slaves is downright terrifying (who knows how many of the Vespasian’s crew used to be human?) and the general cult-ey atmosphere they gave off was rather unsettling. Asclepius is a bit scary but he doesn’t feel like as much of a a threat
I think the tone of the MILFs is still quite broadly comedic, though. Asclepius felt more like a threat played straight.
The MILFS started out as sorta villains with the whole turning humans into robots thing which is quite a dark-ish concept really but by the end when they are saying their goodbyes to Kryten it kinda makes you go aaah they were not so bad after all Asclepius was funny in a creepy way but underused sadly. Infact do you notice the opening of series 10,11 and 12 all have a similarity with the villains, as Trojan, Twentica and Cured all have the villain or villains holding a gun to the crew and they have to get out of it in some way
I think the tone of the MILFs is still quite broadly comedic, though. Asclepius felt more like a threat played straight. Agreed. Even though some comedy was mined from his villainousness (“no longer insane” was a great gag) and even though he may not even have been a villain in the end, I felt a lot more jeopardy for the crew from Asclepius than the MILFs. I’ve got 11. Controversially, included one from VIII. If it’s Cassandra, I doubt you’ll be alone. I can acknowledge the reasons people dislike the episode but I can’t buy into them: I think it’s a well-plotted, clever episode with some nice Sci-Fi references and an excellent guest star, and whilst the threads fall apart quite quickly if you pick at them, this is no more so than some of the episodes in the original 36. I also have a VII episode in the Top 36: I have a real soft spot for The Rimmer Experience, I’m afraid. The munchkin song is excellent but it’s Rimmer’s “recollections” of his adventures with the crew that really make it for me, it is some of the most Rimmer material that Rimmer has been given. So for that reason alone, Blue took a ‘bubble’ slot for me.
but by the end when they are saying their goodbyes to Kryten it kinda makes you go aaah they were not so bad after all They are literally like that because they were all upgraded to not be racist fucks anymore.
There has to be at least one person who watched Siliconia and is genuinely angry at the message that not being racist anymore is an “upgrade”
8 post-Grant episodes in my top 36, none of which are from VIII, BTE or X. How has X fared against XI and XII for people? It did pretty well in the Silver Survey but I suspect people have been more willing to move X episodes down in favour of XI and XII, rather than ones regarded as old blue-chip untouchables.
There has to be at least one person who watched Siliconia and is genuinely angry at the message that not being racist anymore is an “upgrade” They probably didn’t even get the message.
What was the message though? the episode started out as a kinda androids being treated badly by humans thing and then it changed to upper class and lower class androids type idea.
I know Timewave annoyed someone with its message as they had a brief back and forth with Doug about it last December. “Timewave. Where you clearly can’t understand the difference between criticism and bullying and mock people who are against bullyng as if they were against criticism.”
What was the message though? the episode started out as a kinda androids being treated badly by humans thing and then it changed to upper class and lower class androids type idea. Your mileage may vary with how well it was delivered, but the message of Siliconia is that oppression is bad on any metric, and would-be liberators of one group are perfectly capable of upholding the oppression of another group. The change from androids being treated badly by humans to upper class androids vs. lower class androids isn’t a change. It’s the same thing. Not exactly the most complex or deep message in sci fi, but there it is.
>I also feel like the only one who doesn’t hate Duct Soup with a passion. There’s bits I don’t like, but I don’t hate it with a passion. I do. I pronounce Duct the same way Rimmer2 yells “Gazpacho”
It feels something of a relief saying this but there are actually 2 episodes from VII in my Top 36… Duct Soup is one of them… (#29 in fact…) Duct Soup isn’t even the 29th best episode in Series VII.
> “Infact do you notice the opening of series 10,11 and 12 all have a similarity with the villains, as Trojan, Twentica and Cured all have the villain or villains holding a gun to the crew and they have to get out of it in some way” < Yeah! Not forgetting The End, Kryten, Backwards, Camille, Holoship, Psirens, Tikka to Ride, Back in the Red Pt.1 and Back to Earth Pt.1 all featuring the main characters discovering they're not alone in a Godless universe. And then there are all those Simpsons season openers where they end up getting into adventures with people *outside* their family unit. [Hits the snooze button] Come on,
> “There has to be at least one person who watched Siliconia and is genuinely angry” < I can't imagine anyone would feel angry (or, at the very least, disappointed) about an episode that's been teased endlessly for the last 15 years only to find the end result a dull, simplistic knockabout that purports to be Saying Something Important.
> “I also feel like the only one who doesn’t hate Duct Soup with a passion.” “There’s bits I don’t like, but I don’t hate it with a passion.” < Never understood the hatred, personally. It's not one my favourite episodes, but it's a perfectly functional 30 minutes of television. It's just very presumptuous about the show's new character dynamics: it assumes we're invested, but we're still only two episodes in after Rimmer's departure and just one following Kochanski's arrival. We needed time to digest it, not *told* how things were going to be from now on. I think that's why fans are down on it so much. Watch it in isolation, though, and the shitty bits are outweighed by the better bits. It ain't Marooned, but then it knows it isn't.
Does it know it’s not Marooned? It feels like it’s trying to be. The story about the cast standing up and applauding after the read-through has to be one of the more bizarre behind the scenes tales of Red Dwarf
It does seem like because of the positive reception towards Marooned there may have been a desire to try and replicate that.
Am I the only person who let no post-Grant episodes into the top 36? Probably not. But as Lily says, is that just a point of principal or do you genuinely believe that the absolute worst I-VI episode is still better than the absolute best VII-XII? I don’t know if it will be a stat given, but I’d be interested to know what the greatest number of non-I-VI episodes in the Top 36 was amongst the surveys. I think it was 7 for me, which I imagine was one of the higher. Apart from any idiot who ranked Skipper as 1 and then backwards chronologically from there, I wonder if anyone had more than 10 post-Grant episodes break the “bubble”? It wasn’t really a point of principal, but the personal gulf that exists as a result of when I experienced series 1-6 (early teenage years), and how I experienced series 7 onwards (once I was doing my A levels and beyond). I could try to ignore the nostalgia that is there, and try to view series 1-6 differently, but it would be untruthful. I only continue watching the new series because of the nostalgic pull of the first six. If I hadn’t seen the show before I was 21, I doubt I’d have ever gotten into it. So that’s why series 1-6 have to fill the top 36 places, for me.
>I could try to ignore the nostalgia that is there, and try to view series 1-6 differently, but it would be untruthful. I only continue watching the new series because of the nostalgic pull of the first six. That’s very honest when people are trying to rank on televisual merit, to go for simply how much you love the show. I can respect that.
I’d still like Red Dwarf if I first saw it now, but I certainly wouldn’t be hanging around the fan community all the time if I hadn’t been obsessive about it as a tween. Even if I objectively get more enjoyment from a number of other shows than from watching a new series of Red Dwarf, the whole experience of getting a new series of Red Dwarf is a much bigger deal that encompasses far more than simply viewing the episodes. Hell, as mediocre as Timewave was, the discussion it generated provided for a lot of enjoyment. For someone not involved in the fan community, they’d get nothing out of a bad episode. I have zero interest in ever watching Series VIII for my own enjoyment again, but I still have fun analyzing its many many faults.
