Series I-VIII Bluray Review Addendum Quickies Posted by Ian Symes on 18th July 2019, 17:15 On 17th July 2019, just over six months since the Red Dwarf Series I-VIII Bluray set was first released, replacement discs for Series III and V finally fell through the letterboxes of complaining customers. On the original release, the entirety of the third series and the second half of the fifth were rendered in the wrong frame rate, resulting in blurry movement and grainy pictures, basically the equivalent of accidentally applying a film effect. This subject rather dominated our original review, which lead to a minor lobbying campaign for a fix. The BBC acknowledged the mistake in February, and assured us that new discs would be ready in “approximately six weeks”. Twenty weeks later, were the new editions of these nine episodes worth the wait? As before, I’ve watched one sample episode from each series, side-by-side with the DVD version to compare the differences. And upon sitting down to watch Polymorph, my first impression was that this was a genuine improvement, with much richer colours than before and a less washed-out look overall, the only cost being some loss of detail in the darker sections of the screen. This only really applies in the officers’ quarters though, as the results are mixed whenever the gang are in the science room. In the initial movie-watching scene, Rimmer’s hair looks unnaturally auburn, whereas when the lighting’s much brighter in the later post-Polymorph-attack scene, his skin is far too white and lacking contrast. It’s another mixed bag with the cargo deck scenes – much less grainy than the DVD version, but everything’s much darker, so less can be made out. The bits we can see do have crisper detail, so it’s a score draw overall. The only other notable difference is that peacenik Rimmer’s beard is darker than before, the mundanity of this observation perhaps indicating that while on the whole it’s a decent attempt at bringing the always lower-quality Series III up to scratch with the rest of canon, there’s not much to write home about. Series V seems to be the same story; the first three episodes already looked decent on the initial release, and I can report that Quarantine follows suit – subtle refinement here and there, rather than anything too radical. The grade brings out more detail in the “Moosebase Alpha” model sequences, which is obviously a welcome touch. Holly’s background acting is also improved by the increased contrast making her facial features easier to pick out. Lanstrom’s hex-vision is a much brighter red, making her eyes less visible behind the effect, while the green of the quarantine suite is much more lurid, which helps to present it as a deeply unpleasant space to live in. Lister’s black eye looks a lot nastier too. And Chris Barrie’s make-up-disguised coldsore is a lot more noticeable in a higher resolution. So does any of this change the conclusion to our original review? Well there’s certainly a lot less wrong with the set now that this enormous error has been fixed. The majority of the series can now be classified as either being an improvement on or at least equal to previous versions, and the only major quibbles now are questionable design decisions and the odd mistake and/or inconsistency. While it’s frustrating that the cock-up happened in the first place, which is only exacerbated by it taking so long to fix, there’s now less reason to be hostile towards the endeavour, but on the other hand there’s still nothing to get too excited about. Now that it contains the full fifty-two episodes at a serviceable quality in addition to all the extras, we’d now say that it’s worth getting if, for some reason, you don’t already have all the DVDs. But if you do, then this really is just for the collectors – there are improvements in quality, but also corresponding issues in places, so it still can’t truly be considered a “definitive” version of the series. But at least it’s not actively worse any more, so there’s that.
I will be looking out for the cold sore from now on. I do have a blu ray player now but can’t afford the set just yet. One day when I’m flush I’ll get this and Hitch Hikers in one wallop (est. 2023)
One thing I did notice while watching the Netflix version of Queeg the other day is that the infamous Series I-II ‘wibble’ in the opening sequence is present on the old DVD versions too, just slightly less pronounced.
The whole box set just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to be honest. Late, marginal improvements, typos, plenty that’s considerably worse needing corrections, which were late again, stuff that’s worse and won’t be corrected. After being told it was definitely worth it, definite improvements. And the box art. The antithesis of the DVD releases. BBC worldwide can suck my thermos.
One thing I did notice while watching the Netflix version of Queeg the other day is that the infamous Series I-II ‘wibble’ in the opening sequence is present on the old DVD versions too, just slightly less pronounced. The issue isn’t that this version wobbles during the mix like it always did, it’s that it’s been digitally treated with deshaker technology (which in restoration is used mostly for stabilising film bounce, it can’t unpick a double image like this) so looks even worse.
I will be looking out for the cold sore from now on. I do have a blu ray player now but can’t afford the set just yet. One day when I’m flush I’ll get this and Hitch Hikers in one wallop (est. 2023) Genuinely, I’d just get some proper Blurays instead if I were you. If you’re looking for cult TV upgrades, Python’s out in October, done properly with all the animation and some location stuff (and even some physical VT) rescanned and restored in HD, and about 15 minutes of stuff missing from previous releases painstakingly put back in. And outtakes/deleted scenes on top. And other things that will become clear a week on Monday. Oh, and not a BBC Studios release so probably won’t involve a replacement disc farce. Or literally anything else but these lazy, no-effort SD Bluray things. They’ll stop doing them if people stop buying them.
Is there any way of knowing if the boxset that ship now have the corrected discs? I want a set as a collector, and returned the set I had at the time due to the issue and as a sort of protest.
As I understand it they’re not reissuing the set with corrected discs, the only way to get them is to apply direct to the BBC.
The issue isn’t that this version wobbles during the mix like it always did, it’s that it’s been digitally treated with deshaker technology (which in restoration is used mostly for stabilising film bounce, it can’t unpick a double image like this) so looks even worse. Oh it’s worse on the Blu-Rays for sure, I just hadn’t ever noticed it on the original before.
As I understand it they’re not reissuing the set with corrected discs, the only way to get them is to apply direct to the BBC. Seriously???? I was thinking of getting a copy in a year or so when it was cheaper and this had all supposedly been fixed. Now I’m wondering if they won’t even bother with another disc printing beyond the first run. It’s crazy really. This set reeks of laziness. I know physical media is dying out, but if any fanbase is guaranteed to pay up for a premier box set with lots of lovely new extras it’s Red Dwarf. Instead we get some slightly polished (and for a large portion inferior) rips of the DVDs.
slightly polished (and for a large portion inferior) I think this is slightly unfair. As the review above says, it’s more the other way around – mostly it can be considered a marginal improvement (with certain series showing a clear improvement over the DVDs), but there are also a couple of flaws unique to this set that mean it falls short of being a definitive version.
I’d say there’s a legitimate point that a lot of the regrading choices are unwelcome artistic decisions that disregard the original lighting and colour designs of the show. There’s a lot which goes beyond boosting the saturation and contrast on the faded bits of the old masters, which was all they needed to do from a colouring standpoint. These may be preferred by some viewers but they’re not objective improvements, nor are they archival source upgrades, nor are they actual restorations. They are Re-Mastered 2, just an insidious version of such.
Quinn Drummer, you could try eBay for the replacement discs. They might be on there. Who is going to go to the effort of getting replacement discs and then selling them on eBay? And who would pay? If I were to buy the set again I’d request replacements for free like everyone else
>Or literally anything else but these lazy, no-effort SD Bluray things. They’ll stop doing them if people stop buying them. The Hitchhikers one is the only recent one that I’d describe as lazy. The Classic Who Blu-Rays are incredible. The Red Dwarf ones have had a fair amount of remastering work (whether it is wanted or not). The Quatermass Blu was great, The old New Who Blu-Rays were an abomination in that they presented the entire show at the wrong frame rate. I just wish they could have members of The Doctor Who Restoration Team advise on all of the Blu-Ray releases done by the BBC.
Problem is there’s nothing to restore. No original content at all for these Blu-rays, just the DVD masters. It’s like trying to get the egg back out of a quiche after you’ve baked it. Even with such poor source material though there are things they could’ve done, remaking the opening titles of V so they’re not blurry shimmery mess? An attempt to fix the CSO nightmare in Marooned? Some would say that’s a bit remastery but they’re a bit remastery, may as well fix obvious errors.
As with any of these projects, a lot of this comes down to personal preference, and there are now enough variations out there for Red Dwarf that it becomes a bit of a pick-and-mix of what you want to see. To move away from Red Dwarf specifically (because frankly we’ve discussed this set to death by now), you can look at stuff like Star Wars and see elements of the Special Editions where they have definitely improved the original (fixing compositing bodges, correcting effects etc.), but then by definition you are watching something that is not the original, something other. Generally for me I will always favour the original version of anything over subsequent changed versions, even if the changes can be considered improvements. So for me these Blu-Ray remastering projects are never going to replace or outdo the originals, they’re always going to be at best interesting alternate versions.
People should just think themselves lucky. What for? They weren’t supplied for free. Unless you mean lucky that they’ve been fixed at all, then yeah, probably.
People had to pay for the replacements? No for the original box set, which I think is what we should be feeling lucky for, based on the comment previous talking about remastered Blu-ray boxsets. I don’t feel lucky, I feel disappointed and mildly ripped off, with a hint of disgust when I look at the box art.
I want this Blu-ray set just for the novelty of seeing the show with a different visual look, but I certainly don’t want it enough to have to file for fucking replacement discs after I bought it. And of course, pirating is a poor solution because it’s apparently against the internet’s religion to upload a video at a framerate that isn’t 24/25p.
Have they even started putting the fixed discs in the box set? Have they done another run of the box set since replacements started going out? Has there been more than the initial release anyway? Seems like it’s not as popular as they thought it would be. Have they announced that the new discs will be going in the box sets? If they don’t know, who does?
Well despite the reviews I have bought this bad boy as I saw it a good price in my lockdown boredom. It will replace my episode only DVD’s of the original run. I might be thicker than thicky holden but having a quick scan through series III and V I couldn’t see a drop off in the frame rate as discussed so perhaps they have replaced the discs in more recent stock. I have emailed them to see what is happening.
Well smeg. I somewhat impulsively decided to finally submerge myself into the world of HD-ish BBC era Dwarf, and the box set I got has the original Series III and V discs with the de-interlacing issues. It’s been nearly 3 years since this came out – how are there still new copies of the first print run in shops???
I don’t think they ever corrected the discs in the retail version. You *have* to send off for the right discs, which if memory serves, are just plain discs more or less, they don’t match the artwork or anything else of the box set. It’s what’s put me off rebuying it, despite until now owning every physical release there is. It’s too much hassle and I just don’t want to support shoddy work.
I don’t think they ever corrected the discs in the retail version. You *have* to send off for the right discs, which if memory serves, are just plain discs more or less, they don’t match the artwork or anything else of the box set. I thought that too, but I looked up the big Blu-ray dot com thread about this release, and at the tail end at least one person very confidently reported that they’d bought it in 2020 and it came with corrected discs. Though elsewhere I also found someone who was allegedly told that the disc replacement scheme was due to end imminently, a year and a half ago. So in my current circumstance both things being false would be a bit more helpful to me than both being true! Although it can’t be true that the replacement discs don’t have proper artwork, can it? Are the images at the top of the article not of the replacement discs? It’s what’s put me off rebuying it, despite until now owning every physical release there is. It’s too much hassle and I just don’t want to support shoddy work. Yeah, I felt very similarly, which is why it took me this long, but I just couldn’t fully quiet the voice in my head reminding me that thiese were the best quality versions of Red Dwarf 1-VIII.
OK, that’s good to hear, thanks for verifying, Dave. Now let’s just hope the BBC actually send me them eh. Although the weird thing is that once I’d verified that I had the faulty discs from the serial numbers, I actually found it very difficult to spot anything wrong when watching clips to check, even when directly comparing with the DVDs. Perhaps I’m a framerate philistine.
It can depend on your TV settings. Mine is constantly trying to force framerate fuckery and artificially “smooth” visual settings on me, which can completely alter stuff in this area. The credits are the best place to see the difference as the effect on the scrolling names makes the faulty versions really stand out.
The replacement discs do have the correct artwork to match the rest of the set. At least, mine did. Ah not sure where I got that disc artwork thing from! Good to know they’re proper discs. I thought that too, but I looked up the big Blu-ray dot com thread about this release, and at the tail end at least one person very confidently reported that they’d bought it in 2020 and it came with corrected discs. They clearly didn’t sell well, I’m not at all surprised theres still the odd original release version out there, if they did indeed update the discs in the box. It can depend on your TV settings. Mine is constantly trying to force framerate fuckery and artificially “smooth” visual settings on me, which can completely alter stuff in this area. I remember when I had the set when it came out (before I returned it) that turning on frame rate smoothing or whatever it’s called sorted out the issue to a certain extent, but its certainly not ideal and not something you want to rely on as a solution.
It can depend on your TV settings. Mine is constantly trying to force framerate fuckery and artificially “smooth” visual settings on me, which can completely alter stuff in this area. Whoever decided that “smooth motion” interpolation settings should be on by default on every modern TV should be rounded up and fucking shot in the face. It is the most ungodly hideous way to watch TV and I will fight you if you say otherwise. Even if you say it in jest I will jam a screwdriver into your eye socket. There are few things I hate more than being forced to watch TV with some horrible ridiculous shitty post-processing that no sane person could possibly think looks good, let alone “better”. Learn to set up your TV, you dipshits. Turning every single setting up all the way doesn’t equal maximum quality.
Yes, this. I wouldn’t mind but my TV seems to like resetting to its defaults every so often, meaning I have to constantly switch it back to normal.
I did check my TV settings, but couldn’t find anything about motion smoothing. There was a setting for noise reduction that defaults to “low” rather than “off” but that’s it. So either my TV can’t do motion smoothing, or it has motion smoothing on whether you want it or not. Then again, I couldn’t see the issue in that Dailymotion video which was uploaded specifically to demonstrate the issue either, so clearly my eyes just have motion smoothing built in. I did notice the blurring in the Series 5A vs. 5B credits comparison, at least! Anyway, the BBC responded positively, so clearly the rumour that the disc replacement scheme had ended was bollocks. I tell you, this experience has absolutely shattered my otherwise rock-solid trust in second hand information from internet forums. It does also make me wonder how long the BBC’s obligation to provide replacements will last, if there’s even a time limit at all.
Maybe your eye refresh rate is extactly inline with that of the TV and the blu-ray discs frame rate so you don’t see the gaps, kinda like those videos from cameras where the shutter speed is the same as helicopter blades so they appear not to move.
I used to work in a shop that sold TVs, and when motion smoothing appeared, the amount of calls I got about it looking weird and like a soap opera, the relief in their voices when I told them how to turn it off. Absolutely heinous invention. Worst thing is that on my TV it’s not even a universal setting, so I turned it off on the HDMIs but when you use the TV apps you have to go and turn it off again. About 11 years ago I bought a TV that had a special 24fps mode for films to make it look as correct as possible, and now they’re trying to make 24fps stuff look like 60fps sports broadcasting.
I actually don’t mind a little motion smoothing, not the full whack but the lower settings can make older content a little easier to watch, as it sometimes feels like I’m counting frames. I have some pre-set on my TV for different things I’ve set up so it’s easy to switch to something that doesn’t need it with a couple of clicks. But it definitely shouldn’t be something on by default or something that can’t easily be switched off system wide.
It is the most ungodly hideous way to watch TV and I will fight you if you say otherwise. Growing up in the transition from 4:3 to widescreen, my mate’s TV always had ‘panorama’ mode switched on, that stretched the image horizontally so you didn’t have to ignore black bars. My memories are of oval Stargates and fat faces. Of course, nowadays they elegantly fix that by zooming in and destroying much of the picture, who needed it anyway.
Growing up in the transition from 4:3 to widescreen, my mate’s TV always had ‘panorama’ mode switched on, that stretched the image horizontally so you didn’t have to ignore black bars. My memories are of oval Stargates and fat faces. Oh I remember that TVs also had a pan and scan mode too (sometimes by default) that did the cropping. Dark times.
The transition from 4:3 to widescreen, what a time to be alive. Imagine feeling totally secure in yourself and your square CRT telly one day, and the next day you’re watching letterboxed Countryfile. Madness.
I genuinely remember the first time I saw widescreen snooker. It felt like a revelation to be honest. It’s not as if we were missing anything before but there felt like there so much more space to luxuriate in.
And yet they still shoot the table from top to bottom rather than giving us a birds-eye view of it horizontally.
And yet they still shoot the table from top to bottom rather than giving us a birds-eye view of it horizontally. Turn your TV 90 degrees, problem solved.
Hey, remember when they teased that there might be other international releases of this set beyond Japan coming, and then nothing happened? That was a shame. Sorry, Red Dwarf fans who are not in the privileged 2.5% of the global population… I also got curious today and wondered how much the Japanese version costs currently. The answer: £172 !!! So if you think UK buyers were ripped off with the no new extras and the flawed upscaling, there’s some perspective.
Growing up in the transition from 4:3 to widescreen, my mate’s TV always had ‘panorama’ mode switched on, that stretched the image horizontally so you didn’t have to ignore black bars. My memories are of oval Stargates and fat faces. Oh I remember that TVs also had a pan and scan mode too (sometimes by default) that did the cropping. Dark times. Ew. Give me black pillarboxes any day. I will always be grateful for the normal range of aspect ratio/zoom options on TVs – so even if a channel is (heinously) broadcasting a 4:3 programme stretched out, we can force it with the 4:3 option on the TV. I canNOT abide a stretched picture.
Oh wow, I just received my replacement discs! I’m aware this is otherwise a completely routine, uninteresting sequence of events, but still: impressive speed, BBC.