Let’s Talk About The First Three Million Years #3 News Posted by Jonathan Capps on 20th August 2020, 12:00 Tonight is the exciting finalé of The First Three Million Years, entitled Playing Pool with Planets. We can expect some chat about guest stars, the brilliance of Timewave and apparently some coverage of Red Dwarf USA so there’ll be plenty more opportunities for the painstaking archiving work carried out by Andrew Ellard 15 years ago to stretch its legs again. As always this is your place to natter on about the latest instalment in the comments and we’ll be joining the discussion in our own way soon enough.
They should have caled the episode “Timewave” frankly. “Playing Pool With Planets” just isn’t gonna sell it to fans, casual and hardcore alike.
Us, before this series started: “3 episodes? OK, so maybe episode 1 covers the Rob+Doug BBC era, episode 2 covers the post hiatus solo Doug BBC era, and episode 3 covers the Dave era?” Us, now: “The title of episode 3 is Playing Pool with Planets? Sweet, they’re finally going to cover 1991!”
All hardcore Red Dwarf fans know everything post 1989 is just a footnote in the show’s history anyway and hardly worth talking about. To give so much air time to 1991 is absurd really.
The thought occurs that there is nothing stopping Dave doing a series 2 of this, exploring more of the behind the scenes of Red Dwarf than has been seen in the three episodes to date. IF we got another special / series and Dave decided that wanted something else to accompany it, a First Three Million Years Series 2 would work great.
Everybody on G&T is absolutely thrilled that they spent so much time on Backwards, I assume. Also I cba really discussing this idea, but the whole “deciding what something is going to be like before you see it, then getting annoyed that it isn’t what you invented in your brain” thing is very silly
This really should be released on DVD/BR. There’ll be hours of unaired talking heads interviews. I think we’ve had more of Nish Kumar talking in this episode than any of those actually involved in the production of the show.
This doc made me think – When does Ace Rimmer come from? How does he know what a Series 4000 mechonoid is if this is his first jump? He’s supposed to come from the same time as our Rimmer, right? Also, the cheese during the Mr. Rat scene is so obviously fake. That’s some real comedy cheese, there. Also, Mr. Rat is probably the funniest thing that has ever happened.
Also I cba really discussing this idea, but the whole “deciding what something is going to be like before you see it, then getting annoyed that it isn’t what you invented in your brain” thing is very silly Yeah, it’s not like the trailers for this mainly just showed clips of the Dave era or anything. Oh wait.
Yeah, it’s not like the trailers for this mainly just showed clips of the Dave era or anything. Oh wait. The Dave era is HD. And they made it
This really should be released on DVD/BR. There’ll be hours of unaired talking heads interviews. I think we’ve had more of Nish Kumar talking in this episode than any of those actually involved in the production of the show. This isn’t me bitching, by the way. I just hope we – the ones who are interested enough – get to see all the recordings that aren’t going to be aired. I’m sure Hattie, Norm and Mac didn’t just spend a total of less than ten minutes talking to a bloke with a microphone and a camera.
The Dave era is HD. And they made it So…why be so reluctant about covering it in any depth in the actual documentary?
This really should be released on DVD/BR. There’ll be hours of unaired talking heads interviews. … This isn’t me bitching, by the way. I just hope we – the ones who are interested enough – get to see all the recordings that aren’t going to be aired. I’m sure Hattie, Norm and Mac didn’t just spend a total of less than ten minutes talking to a bloke with a microphone and a camera. Ooooh those interviews, in full, on disc, would be snapped up! Unless they are holding onto them as a 35th anniversary thing … hint hint, if anyone involved in the production ever finds themselves reading this? ;) (I’ll have to watch this one on +1 because I got engrossed in the snooker and lost track of time.) (Also, not sure what’s with the quote formatting, sorry.)
This isn’t me bitching, by the way. I just hope we – the ones who are interested enough – get to see all the recordings that aren’t going to be aired. I’m sure Hattie, Norm and Mac didn’t just spend a total of less than ten minutes talking to a bloke with a microphone and a camera. if we don’t see them, and we won’t, it won’t be any different than not seeing the 4hours of material that is left on the cutting room floor for each 30min episode.
Having finished the documentary already, I was surprised when Doug said that this project was the last Red Dwarf project he’d be involved with.
Yeah, I guess the final 5 minutes was plenty to dedicate to the break-up, the BBC ditching the show, Dave picking it up and the making of more than half of the episodes.
Loving the idea of somebody who’s never seen any of the Dave era having the clips in this documentary as their first exposure to it.
If that entire final episode had been the same as the final ten minutes, that would have been great. A great little series, that, though. I’d have been happy with a six parter, though. There’s certainly enough to make one.
They showed plenty of clips from the Dave era, honestly. It seemed pretty even for where they took clips from. I don’t think Doug or anyone would really want to go into the gory details about the breakup and stuff, really.
Plenty of clips, because that’s what this was. A glorified clip show. Part 1 told the making of the early years. Part 2 and 3 opted for a messy format of bouncing around with a heavy reliance on stories about the making of the BBC era. The prime example of this was the cast sat on the new Starbug set, talking about the making of Gunmen about 26 years earlier. As a result, this was a advert for the repeats, rather than promotion for the show’s continued production.
It was a 3 part show about why the show is so popular. it was telling the audience how successful the show is. simples.
It was a fun little normie-friendly Doc, not a twelve-hour epic that goes into what the cast had for breakfast each and every single day of production. Sometimes things aren’t catered specifically towards you and only you, and that’s ok!
You could do a BA level dissertation on fan entitlement using this website as your only source and get 100% for it
You could do a BA level dissertation on fan entitlement using this website as your only source and get 100% for it You wouldn’t get 100% when you’ve only used one source. Be sensible! EDIT: Sorry if this is coming across as aggressive, I’m all worried about that now. I think everyone here is tickety-boo, to be honest.
I’m catching up with the doc, I was busy while it was going out. My initial reaction is that when they’re saying good things that I agree with, I like it. When they’re saying nice things about Can’t Smeg Won’t Smeg or any performance in Timewave, I can see what Pete means and I side with him entirely. This was meant to be a spirited defence but I’m watching it while typing, which is making it harder than it should be. This is what happens when I watch things without parental guidance.
“The definitive overview of the adventures of the legendary Boys from the Dwarf, charting the origins, production and legacy of everything associated with the sci-fi comedy cult classic”. Damn this fan entitlement!
I actually thought this third episode was ok and better than the second, in that it gave us a bit more stuff we hadn’t seen before and touched on a little more of the stuff that I think is essential in the show’s history. Still lots of gaps (feels like VII and VIII were all but ignored by this documentary, when there’s a lot to be said about that era) but I came away feeling pretty warm and fuzzy about the show we all love.
Yeah, I guess the final 5 minutes was plenty to dedicate to the break-up, the BBC ditching the show, Dave picking it up and the making of more than half of the episodes. Couldn’t believe they banged on about the movie for so long, to be honest.
Well I enjoyed it for what it was, a light piece of fluff that makes you smile. I’d buy it on DVD but suspect there wouldn’t be enough sales to warrant a release. Perhaps they’ll release it as a bonus disc with the next 90min special? Although I’d prefer a full series with different storylines I don’t think that’ll happen.
Thinking about it from a casual viewer’s perspective (or trying to), I think this one may have been potentially rather good for interesting a Dave-era viewer to investigate BBC-era Dwarf, with the science and the guest stars. (Also prompted by remembering a comment last week about a commenter’s parents having watched BBC-era but not Dave, and now because of the documentary expressing interest in watching some of the newer stuff.)
OK, so it was again way too unfocused and shallow, but seeing production and fans alike sing the show’s praises with clips interspersed is still a lot of fun. It was also nice to see a better spread of topics over the different eras than the first 2 episodes – though episode 1 is probably still the best episode overall because the origin of the show was easily the topic that got the most detailed coverage. The cropping of classic clips continued, unfortunately. The close up of Rimmer in Stasis Leak might be the nadir of it. And it’s pretty funny to me how much of the show’s history was just completely unacknowledged. You’d think that the massive changes to the status quo and expanded cast in series 8, Chris leaving in series 7, the hiatus between series 6 and 7, the writing out of Holly and Red Dwarf itself for series 6, and the post-series 8 attempts to get The Movie to happen would all warrant, like, a passing mention? But nope. Series VIII in particular got seriously shafted. I think the most Series VIII in the whole show was a brief shot of Cassandra as an example of a character played by a famous person. It’s like that whole series never happened. Not only did they not actually discuss Geraldine McEwan, they didn’t mention Jake Wood or Graham McTavish either. They had recurring roles! Dave followed this up with Skipper and then Timewave (or “Time Wave” as the EPG correctly put it) … interesting choice, to re-broadcast Timewave on purpose.
Damn it, now I want to see Hitler singing Toto’s Africa. I actually think the end result of that is funnier. I know people want to see the Africa version, but I don’t think that’s anywhere near as funny as ‘The Happy Wanderer’
And it’s pretty funny to me how much of the show’s history was just completely unacknowledged. You’d think that the massive changes to the status quo and expanded cast in series 8, Chris leaving in series 7, the hiatus between series 6 and 7, the writing out of Holly and Red Dwarf itself for series 6, and the post-series 8 attempts to get The Movie to happen would all warrant, like, a passing mention? But nope. From an insiders perspective yeah. But from outside, I imagine Red Dwarf mostly looks and feels the same through those eras. We can all argue they’re different, but for causal comedy fans, they can all argue they’re the same. For Red Dwarf as a whole, viii in particular, but vii as well (vi I don’t think is really different enough other than the fast pacedness of it all) is just a blip. You look at the whole 30 years, there’s a little dip in the middle then it’s back to normal, albeit with a 10 year gap.
Damn it, now I want to see Hitler singing Toto’s Africa. There’s a vid of Ryan’s DJ vid on YouTube. https://youtu.be/b8UrmioG6S8
I enjoyed it. Most of the stories I have heard before but a few new bits and pieces. Overall a pleasant three-parter and I think it shows that UKTV/Dave do really enjoy making stuff on Red Dwarf which is promising for the future.
From an insiders perspective yeah. But from outside, I imagine Red Dwarf mostly looks and feels the same through those eras. We can all argue they’re different, but for causal comedy fans, they can all argue they’re the same. For Red Dwarf as a whole, viii in particular, but vii as well (vi I don’t think is really different enough other than the fast pacedness of it all) is just a blip. You look at the whole 30 years, there’s a little dip in the middle then it’s back to normal, albeit with a 10 year gap. I get what you’re saying, but isn’t a documentary the ideal format to enlighten the casual comedy fan about the weirder moments in the show’s history beyond those they’ve already heard about, even if they are relatively brief? If they can spend so much time on “hey, they did a backwards episode, weird!”, they could spend at least a quarter of that amount of time on “hey, they did an entire series where the whole original crew comes back to life and the main characters are all in prison and there’s a robot penis character and Kryten films and broadcasts women showering without their consent and there’s a basketball game where one of the teams gets drugged with viagra and a bird gets turned into a dinosaur which does a massive shit on the captain and it all culminates in a 10 year wait to find out what happened after Rimmer literally kicked the Grim Reaper in the groin… what?”
A pointless comparison occurred to me: The A-Z featured two scientists: Stephen Hawking (who talked about political correctness, but not about science) and Patrick Moore (who talked about science, but got his terminology wrong). And this episode of The First Three Million Years had Dallas Campbell (a science TV presenter, but not a scientist) talking about science.
Damn it, now I want to see Hitler singing Toto’s Africa. There’s a vid of Ryan’s DJ vid on YouTube. https://youtu.be/b8UrmioG6S8 Ok I take it back, Hitler singing Africa is fucking brilliant. But I think think a relatively unknown song works better. Especially as it is boyscoutty. But who knows. If this had been in the episode I’m sure I’d still be laughing just as hard.
Maybe because of lower expectations after last week’s I enjoyed this a bit more for what it was, even though it was a bit of a mess again. The celebrity fan talking heads were decent value I thought, especially given the cast mostly trotted out the same old jokes and anecdotes. Episode 1 was definitely the best though, by some margin. I’d say some stuff was bound to be left out or at least skated over in three hours minus adverts, but then other things were weirdly foregrounded or dwelt on in episodes 2 and 3. Maybe they went with what they felt they got the best interview footage on. Meh, it was pleasant enough. Obviously the DVD extras are still where it’s at for the likes of us.
“hey, they did an entire series where the whole original crew comes back to life and the main characters are all in prison and there’s a robot penis character and Kryten films and broadcasts women showering without their consent and there’s a basketball game where one of the teams gets drugged with viagra and a bird gets turned into a dinosaur which does a massive shit on the captain and it all culminates in a 10 year wait to find out what happened after Rimmer literally kicked the Grim Reaper in the groin… what?” I kind of wish they’d covered VIII by having David Tennant say exactly that very quickly over a montage of appropriate clips, and then immediately moved on to something else. Like 10 minutes just about wigs or something.
I don’t know how much this show cost to make but for me it comes down to this; could someone have made a 2 hour documentary to much the same standard with a stack of the Series I-VIII (And Bodysnatcher DVDs), some editing software and the BTS stuff that was shot for The Promised Land? I mean; we wouldn’t have any “new” talking heads by which I mean, new footage of the cast and crew saying the same stories) or the, er, celebrity fans…but…we’d have much the same show. This was a poor copy of the DVD documentaries (with them clearly used as the primary reference tool), so why not go the whole hog and just recycle them if all your going to do is bounce around showing clips and “remember when”s. Tennant wrapping up 25 years of the show’s production and skipping over the movie in the last 4 minutes did make me laugh though. I’m sure the millions of mainstream people who tuned in for the last three weeks to watch a retrospective about a sitcom were too cool to notice.
They’re weren’t bad, but definitely feel these were geared towards more casual viewers who are looking for a brief overview rather than the in-depth, warts n’all retrospectives present on the DVDs. And who knows, maybe they might encourage those who haven’t got the DVDs to hunt them down? Never cared for celebrity fan talking heads in any form, mind, and do wish that time was given over to the cast and crew instead.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t actually care what Nick Helm thinks of White Hole but at least it’s something new. I’ve heard Craig’s hoary old “I’d have shagged the American Lister!” quip and Ed telling us that Chris nicked the Ace wig enough times. Obviously I appreciate that stuff will have been new to a lot of people watching this, so fair enough I suppose. Hey at least the famous fans didn’t say anything infuriatingly stupid. I’ve never forgiven Gaby Roslin for asserting that Mrs Warboys is one of those sitcom characters whose first name we never find out.
Hey at least the famous fans didn’t say anything infuriatingly stupid. I’ve never forgiven Gaby Roslin for asserting that Mrs Warboys is one of those sitcom characters whose first name we never find out. Some should commission a show where they get back all the people that have incorrectly asserted things in behind the scenes, talking head shows and have them issue an apology and a correction. We can start with Gaby Roslin and James O’Brian.
I’ve never forgiven Gaby Roslin for asserting that Mrs Warboys is one of those sitcom characters whose first name we never find out. Unless you’ve read the Father Ted script book :) But yeah, valid points, at least Nick Helms offered something interesting.
Did Gaby Roslin actually say that? Regarding the lack of Series VIII being covered, I think that, given the length of time this documentary has to work with and the larger more mainstream audience it has to cater for, that series just requires too much explanation to go into. You have to explain the resurrection of the crew, where they came from, where they went, why the main characters are in prison, and for what? For everything to revert back to series III-V format once it was over. It’d just be a pointless waste of time. Virtually everyone hates series VIII anyway. It doesn’t fit with the rest of the show. Also, ever since Dave has been producing it they’ve made an effort to make the “brand” of Red Dwarf be recognisable as being Rimmer, Lister, Cat, and Kryten. No Kochanski, and almost no Holly. Series VIII doesn’t fit that mould. In part 3 of the documentary they just about got away with explaining Kochanski’s return and the differences it brought. To summarise series VIII would cause too much waffle for a one-series anomaly. Dave know that the essence of Red Dwarf is four characters on a spaceship having amusing adventures. If only Doug Naylor hadn’t briefly lost sight of this in the late ’90s before he started writing series VIII.
Did Gaby Roslin actually say that? Yes, in that Britain’s Best Sitcom series from the mid-2000s. If it had been part of the big countdown show it would be bad enough but the top ten all got an episode each, so Roslin was a featured OFITG fan who apparently never noticed Margaret calling Mrs Warboys Jean, even though she does it ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
Virtually everyone hates series VIII anyway. It doesn’t fit with the rest of the show. Far be it from me to defend Series Fucking VIII, but this isn’t true for that damned mainstream audience that this was supposed to be for. VIII has the highest audience ratings of them all, which is a point worth making in a discussion of the BBC’s baffling decision to ditch the show, and Dave picking it up. Dave can blow their own trumpet documenting that decision, but they chose to deal with it in a throwaway fashion. The narrative that it’s “fan entitlement to want a retrospective to cover ALL the series rather than the ones that the fans prefer” ain’t going to wash.
I’d assume Dave had very little actual involvement in the content of the documentaries and that was largely left up to the documentary makers I get that VIII, the movie, leaving BBC and moving to Dave is a big deal in the history and the story of the show. But when talking about the show, aspects of the show, what is funny, guest characters, sets, costumes, etc etc etc, it’s a fairly inconsequential part. You can talk about Red Dwarf, and all those aspects without touching on the BBC deciding that Red Dwarf doesn’t attract the audience it is looking for anymore.
I’d assume Dave had very little actual involvement in the content of the documentaries They hardly gave me any input if I’m honest.
Virtually everyone hates series VIII anyway. It doesn’t fit with the rest of the show. Far be it from me to defend Series Fucking VIII, but this isn’t true for that damned mainstream audience that this was supposed to be for. VIII has the highest audience ratings of them all, which is a point worth making in a discussion of the BBC’s baffling decision to ditch the show, and Dave picking it up. Dave can blow their own trumpet documenting that decision, but they chose to deal with it in a throwaway fashion. The narrative that it’s “fan entitlement to want a retrospective to cover ALL the series rather than the ones that the fans prefer” ain’t going to wash. Series VIII is like the the tone test for X, XI, XII, TPL so it’s as popular as those are you’d imagine, and given they seem to be quite popular, you’d be hard pushed to say virtually everyone hates it. It has the more generic jokes that could easily be placed in a more traditional sitcom, and less moments of genuine peril/things played straight and hard sci-fi which is the recipe Dave Dwarf seems to follow.
Does Dave even show series 7 and 8 all that much? especially 8? the last time i remember them showing series 8 was a few years ago. not that i regularly keep track of what Dave shows, but whenever i do catch Dave showing the BBC era its usually series 1 > 6.
Ooh imagine if they had touched on the movie a bit more and we got some previously unseen concept art or something. Oh well. Also seems like a missed opportunity, not showing casual fans that incredible test model shot.
I think the issue the show had was the first part made it seem like a chronological history of Red Dwarf, while the second and third parts were just discussing themes, ideas and characters from the broader show. It is a little surprising that some elements were ignored entirely. I wasn’t expecting much more than a narrative thing – “over the years, the show was unafraid to experiment with the format – the crew managed to lose Red Dwarf, Rimmer and the audience laugh track, while a cinematic film was in the works but ultimately never made – but the heart of the show was always our favourite group of space outcasts encountering strange phenomena each week” or something – but to have no mention at all of the format changes does seem a little strange. Ultimately though, I’d say it was designed to entertain rather than inform, and on that front it was successful. My parents enjoyed it a lot, and I bet a lot of casual viewers had a lot of fun watching it.
Ultimately though, I’d say it was designed to entertain rather than inform With these things it’s always a bit of both. If you just wanted crowd-pleasing entertainment then you might as well show Future Echoes, Queeg, Backwards, Dimension Jump, Back To Reality and Gunmen in those three hours instead. But on the other hand, if you make it three hours of deleted scenes, blueprints of the studio layouts and a detailed dissection of the differences between the alternate versions of the closing theme then you’re going to lose most of the audience.
Hmm yes, I should have said “more than” instead of “rather than”. I mean the choice of what was covered seemed to be what would be the most fun to watch as opposed to what would give you the most detailed overview of the show’s history.
As this was made for the fans and the fans views on series 7 and 8 are ‘mixed’ to say the least I think it was wise of the them to skirt around the middle years, and focus on the glory days and the Dave era.
