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As we sit here and hope beyond hope that 2021 will bear as little resemblance to 2020 as humanly possible, here at G&T we’re looking to replicate at least one element from the last 12 months: lots of regular DwarfCasts. Whether you think this is a good thing or not is entirely another matter, but never-the-less Ian, Danny and Cappsy have once again gathered to power through the commentaries for Dave Dwarf with Series XII, episode 1, Cured.

DwarfCast 126 – Cured Commentary (61.5MB)

With a bit of luck we’ll be back into the familiar release pattern for a little while now, so you know the drill. Leave any additional Waffles you might have for a future episode in the comments here, and if you’re reading this before the weekend then head over to the latest Book Club post to prepare for our first episode covering Last Human in a couple of weeks.

Show notes

109 comments on “DwarfCast 126 – Cured Commentary

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  • This is my favourite episode of 12, probably the Dave era and I think I’d put it up there with the first 36.

    It’s a fun sci-fiy concept that allows for some excellent guest and cast performances, a serious yet a bit silly story that all wraps up nicely.

    Ryan Gage is bloody brilliant and whilst not doing anything earth shatteringly new, does it in way that makes the character fun to watch that doesn’t happen often. The Twentica guest cast and Butler are the only others I really relish in watching them perform.

    If the guitar scene was Africa it would be funny, but for other reasons, and it would feel tired for just doing what was basically a meme at that point. The Happy Wanderer fits so much better for Hitler. Throws up images of Hitler Youth, the rolling hills of Sound of Music etc. Granted why Lister would be so down with it is a bit off, but as most musicians will tell you, if you got a jam of a tune you can’t help but enjoy playing it.

    Lister’s sudden ability to play well I’ve always head cannon’d this way. For the first time ever, Lister is playing a fully stringed, correctly tuned guitar provided to him by Hitler. It’s not that Lister can’t play, it’s that his tone deaf and doesn’t know his shit guitar sounds awful. Also, he’s mostly playing chords and it could be that Hitler is doing all the complicated lead stuff.

    It’s a shame the time only allowed us to really get to know Hitler, it would have been nice to get a little more of the other two. You could more or less sub in any other “evil” character from history and it wouldn’t matter too much.

    In terms of hoy grails, one of the many movie script drafts would be nice. Or a complete Blu Ray set without fucked up discs and episode title mistakes. And more Doug commentaries on things, especially now Rob has done all of 1-3.

  • Love this episode. The Dave era is blessed with some real star turns and Ryan Gage is sensational here. I’ll admit that I enjoyed Cured more after I saw it the first time. As good as Gage is, I remember thinking “he looks nothing like Hitler!” Clever Doug.

    Favourite line: “It’s because I’m Hitler, isn’t it?”

  • Good job reading the notes on the cryo-booths.

    In terms of hoy grails, one of the many movie script drafts would be nice

    Schyeah it would. Also I don’t know how far they got with a third Grant Naylor novel but it would be great to read a story outline, drafts of chapters etc.

  • I think it’s fair to say XII was met with a certain amount of hype, here at least, as a result of the set reports and the apparent weirdness in store. So when Cured came on I was sorely disappointed – although it’s obviously a pretty odd concept, the episode never leapt out at me. When it was finished I had a real “was that it?” feeling.

    My thoughts haven’t really changed on rewatches. It feels like Doug came up with the overall psychopaths / curing evil thing because it sounded like an interesting idea, rather than it lending itself to the show and characters well, and as such the plot is poor and, other than Hitler and the failed Starbug escape, there’s not much that makes me laugh.
    On the plus side, Hitler talking about the lighter is a XII highlight for me.

    The fourth wall breaking thing is interesting. When Flasheart does it in Blackadder it’s jarring (in a funny way), but in Allo Allo and Fleabag it never actually takes me out of the reality of the show.

    Movie book, I’d love one with an early draft and a late draft to see how much it changes over the years. A definite holy grail.

  • Yeah, it’s a strange episode. It’s not the strongest opener, but I think the other episodes would be weaker. At the same time, I don’t hate XII or even think it’s weak overall. But I really do relate every time anyone said a variation on “I enjoyed this, but is it good?”

    Thanks for answering my question (I do indeed wear corduroy in bed, I am as yet not married to anyone). Really enjoyed the podcast, as usual! To echo Mani506, my cockles were significantly warmed.

  • It feels like Doug came up with the overall psychopaths / curing evil thing because it sounded like an interesting idea, rather than it lending itself to the show and characters well.

    I sorta feel that way about the whole The Cat being a psychopath thing. and to a point alot of the last few seasons. i dunno whether the concepts often fit or whether Doug is forcing them to fit to make the plots work. The Cat hasn’t done much to anything in the shows history to suggest he is a psychopath, or at least in the way this episode suggests. in another scenario you know Doug could easly say Rimmer is the Psychopath, depending if the plot desired it.

  • I suppose the idea of a psychopath being someone who shows no interest in anything or anyone that doesn’t benefit themselves does pretty much fit Cat’s character, so it is in fitting, although not to the extent that we see at the end of Cured: the people who’ve been his social circle for the bulk of his life wouldn’t come second to a stranger.
    But I do agree that a lot of the Dave era feels like Doug deciding something would be cool and not always being able to actually meld it to a convincing set of Dwarf character moments and jokes.

  • I suppose the idea of a psychopath being someone who shows no interest in anything or anyone that doesn’t benefit themselves does pretty much fit Cat’s character, so it is in fitting, although not to the extent that we see at the end of Cured: the people who’ve been his social circle for the bulk of his life wouldn’t come second to a stranger.

    He’s meant to be tricking Telford all along isn’t he? I don’t think he considers betraying the rest of the crew at any point. That wouldn’t sit well with me, and I don’t usually like Cat reverting to his antisocial series 1 and 2 self, as does happen sometimes in the Dave era. Not caring that Lister has collapsed is fine in Confidence & Paranoia but wouldn’t work now. I’m fine with him killing Telford in cold blood though. Call that survival instinct? As the guys touch on in the commentary, the scan machine is anthropomorphising the Cat by calling him a psychopath. Presumably it’s only meant for use on humans.

  • Great Dwarfcast to kick off Series XII.

    As for all the plot explanation being dumped in about a minute at the end, I always read that as Doug having written himself into a corner and suddenly having to come up with an explanation to make sense of all the stuff earlier in the episode that doesn’t really make sense, and add a bit of peril. It doesn’t feel like a very coherent episode as that ending undermines a lot of the story, but it’s fun in the moment.

    Also, on the subject of fourth wall breaking, I’m sure the Cat’s glance to camera when he meets Dog in Parallel Universe was remarked upon in the Quarantine commentaries, but I can’t remember what was said.

  • Also, on the subject of fourth wall breaking, I’m sure the Cat’s glance to camera when he meets Dog in Parallel Universe was remarked upon in the Quarantine commentaries, but I can’t remember what was said.

    If only there was some sort of digital archive hosted on communication tool that allows machines from all over the world to link up and connect to each other that would allow us to see what was said. But alas, such technology is beyond our grasp.

  • If only there was some sort of digital archive hosted on communication tool that allows machines from all over the world to link up and connect to each other that would allow us to see what was said. But alas, such technology is beyond our grasp.

    Like, some kind of web that’s worldwide?

  • Like, some kind of web that’s worldwide?

    Some sort of interconnected … net perhaps??

  • Ok, so I went and looked up what the comments were.

    But I’m not telling you.

    I feel like that breaks an implied contract between audience and commentator if you mention something about the production but then refuse to say what it is.

  • Anyone else love the fact that, after 30 years of no Cat episodes, he gets two in a row with Can Of Worms and this one? Talk about character focus episodes being like buses!

    Also, I adore the reveal of him being a psychopath, and what they do with it plot-wise.

  • I don’t know if id call this one a Cat episode. it doesn’t focus enough on him to call it a Cat episode.

    But i have to say 30 years of no Cat episodes and the Dave Era has shown me exactly why that is. apparently, the only way to focus heavily on the Cat is to either focus on his insecurity or drive it by how dumb he is. or both in the same episode

  • Anyone else love the fact that, after 30 years of no Cat episodes, he gets two in a row with Can Of Worms and this one? Talk about character focus episodes being like buses!

    Also, I adore the reveal of him being a psychopath, and what they do with it plot-wise.

    When you’re hot, you’re hot!

  • We’re in the show for three million episodes and don’t see a single one. Then all of a sudden, two of them show up at once.

  • Waffle question:

    What’s the longest you’ve gone before you’ve noticed a plot hole or retcon? Example – it was only last night I realised Hollister’s report on Rimmer in Skipper mentions that all Rimmer’s brothers were successful in the Space Corps, which contradicts Howard’s confession in Trojan. It took me just over 3 years to notice this, this makes me barley more than a casual fan. Naturally, I will commit suicide immediately.

  • Waffle question:

    What’s the longest you’ve gone before you’ve noticed a plot hole or retcon? Example – it was only last night I realised Hollister’s report on Rimmer in Skipper mentions that all Rimmer’s brothers were successful in the Space Corps, which contradicts Howard’s confession in Trojan. It took me just over 3 years to notice this, this makes me barley more than a casual fan. Naturally, I will commit suicide immediately.

    Tbf it seems Howard lied to everyone … so Hollister doesn’t know any better, especially if his info comes from Arnold.

  • Howard did an amazing job of scamming his way through his life. but its one of those don’t think about it things, so whatever.

  • It’s still a good question in general though. It was a couple of decades at least before I wondered where the photo of Rimmer’s dorm came from in Timeslides.

  • It’s still a good question in general though. It was a couple of decades at least before I wondered where the photo of Rimmer’s dorm came from in Timeslides.

    Not just who took it, but why did Rimmer have it! And the negative of it too so it could be developed into a timeslide.

  • It’s still a good question in general though. It was a couple of decades at least before I wondered where the photo of Rimmer’s dorm came from in Timeslides.

    Not just who took it, but why did Rimmer have it! And the negative of it too so it could be developed into a timeslide.

    And most importantly, why wasn’t that person there, taking the picture, when future-Rimmer popped into existence.

  • It’s still a good question in general though. It was a couple of decades at least before I wondered where the photo of Rimmer’s dorm came from in Timeslides.

    Not just who took it, but why did Rimmer have it! And the negative of it too so it could be developed into a timeslide.
    And most importantly, why wasn’t that person there, taking the picture, when future-Rimmer popped into existence.

    HO.LY.FUUUU I’d never considered that!

  • HO.LY.FUUUU I’d never considered that!

    It’s the same logic issue when Rimmer appears in the room where Lister and Sabrina are eating. The photo from Blaize’s video seems to be the outside of the house, and even if they did have a photo from inside the room, where’s the photographer?

    Not a big bother or anything, just a “hang on a minute…?”

  • Although I suppose you could always take a photo from earlier in the day, develop it as a timeslide, then leave it “running” for a couple of hours and pop in later, hours after the photo was taken.

  • Based on how we know timeslides to work – not being able to step outside the frame – you ought not to be able to see anything to the sides of behind the camera. Only the captured image should be viewable. Now that is quickly forgotten about in nearly every instance of travelling after that point is made, but it would explain why no camera operator, because from the perspective of the photograph, there isn’t one.

  • They can’t travel outside it, but they can *see* outside it, surely?

    Although like you say, that all seems to go out of the window when they visit young-Lister in the pub and they move all around the room.

  • They can’t travel outside it, but they can *see* outside it, surely?

    Although like you say, that all seems to go out of the window when they visit young-Lister in the pub and they move all around the room.

    it is sort of implied they can see outside it, but why would they? The picture has only captured what’s in the field of view of the lens.

  • You can ask similar questions about Stasis Leak. Just how much of the past has been preserved by the leak? Enough for them to be able to go down to the Ganymede Holiday Inn apparently.

    “The stasis room freezes time, you know, makes time stand still. So whenever you have a leak, it must preserve whatever it’s leaked into, and it’s leaked into this room.”

    Also, would not both Timeslides and Stasis Leaks be little pocket timelines, and not actually the past itself?

  • There are a number of classic Doctor Who episodes where, despite only having access to black and white recordings of the original broadcasts, they were able to extract latent colour information using chroma dot recovery. Some of the analog colour data was still preserved in the black and white capture.

    I am guessing the method of developing Timeslides works in a similar fashion, with the mutated fluid enhancing latent information in the old photographs to create a more detailed approximation of the original event.

  • “The stasis room freezes time, you know, makes time stand still. So whenever you have a leak, it must preserve whatever it’s leaked into, and it’s leaked into this room.”

    This is Lister’s speculation. It’s just as easily say it preserve the time the leak started, creating a link way back to that moment. Which makes much more sense and is in keeping with what we see happening. Though admittedly time in the past passes at the same speed as time in the future so go figure that one out.

  • Also, would not both Timeslides and Stasis Leaks be little pocket timelines, and not actually the past itself?

    Not in the case of Timeslides, it creates a window to the past that allows them to rewrite their own history and change their present.

  • Not in the case of Timeslides, it creates a window to the past that allows them to rewrite their own history and change their present.

    Obviously that is the logic the episodes use and we have to accept for the sake of the story. Still though, to me at least, they make much more sense as time capsules rather than “magic doors” as Cat puts it. Little pockets removed from the normal stream of time.

  • Definitely in the case of Timeslides that fits in with the idea of photos capturing a frozen moment in time.

    I guess the difficulty with that approach for the purposes of a TV show is that it’s harder to get an interesting story and drama out of a concept that doesn’t allow them to rewrite their past.

  • I guess the difficulty with that approach for the purposes of a TV show is that it’s harder to get an interesting story and drama out of a concept that doesn’t allow them to rewrite their past.

    Certainly an interesting comedy story. You could write about how having access to these pockets into the past affects Lister’s mental state, but that sounds more like a subject for the novels.

    In Stasis Leak, why did Lister not just book three weeks at the Ganymede Holiday Inn and just wait out the accident? What is stopping him from staying in the past permanently?

  • Actually, to answer my own question, the knowledge he is going to marry Kockanski. But in a pinch we can use that excuse all the way up to Tikka, although Lister already wavers from that in Timeslides by changing the past.

  • Well i don’t think that one in Stasis leak is much of a plot hole. as you say presumably everything has to play out so Lister can actually be there at that time and married to kochaski. he can’t really stay there and have that happen at the same time. i guess it really depends how much he wanted to be with her vs how much he just wanted to be back home.

    And tbh the whole why did he go back thing does work minimal. and for Series 2 it probably can be forgivable being so early in the show’s timeline. id argue that whole idea has become abit overused in the Dave Era. there is only so many times lister can be on earth or meet other humanoids and then go home and cry about being lonely.

    And with Timeslides, obviously he couldn’t walk out of the photograph so he couldn’t really live on earth.

  • And with Timeslides, obviously he couldn’t walk out of the photograph so he couldn’t really live on earth.

    Although then you have the old “why not find a photo of Earth” thing.

  • And with Timeslides, obviously he couldn’t walk out of the photograph so he couldn’t really live on earth.

    Although then you have the old “why not find a photo of Earth” thing.

    A photo of Earth doesn’t contain all of Earth now does it. No resolution is high enough that you’d be able to zoom in (fly down onto) to the planet and actually live on / walk around etc.

    Plus, if it did work, you’d be confined to the side that is in shot. As soon as it rotates around the edge of the photo would smack you in the face and well … you get the idea.

  • Well, no. That’s like saying Rimmer shouldn’t be able to walk around the other side of one of the dorm-room beds because the photo was taken from a certain side.

    The timeslides ‘magic’ takes you back to that real moment in time, it doesn’t make it 2D. In the same way that all of the people and objects in the photos they visit are three-dimensional and fully-formed, the earth would be too.

  • The timeslides ‘magic’ takes you back to that real moment in time

    I wonder how long that moment lasts, because that would spoil “return to Earth and live there” ideas too. If you would end up in a perpetual loop.

  • there is only so many times lister can be on earth or meet other humanoids and then go home and cry about being lonely.

    Is it explained why, at the end of Twentica, they don’t just leave the Earth’s atmosphere and then fly back down after the EMP thing has gone off?

  • Since BTE there’s been the Kochanski’s “out there somewhere” justification I suppose. Even though the most recent mention of her I can think of is in Entangled. Is that right?

  • Yes, and the ‘long enough to need to go into stasis’ trip in Krysis has basically killed off any chance of them finding her, if we’re following that level of continuity.

    Unless she is in stasis herself, which was the plan in Entangled.

  • Here’s a tip; next time you ask yourself why the show has “reset” to return the status quo, rather than following through on the implications of a major plot device, go and watch “Back in the Red Part Three”.

  • Is there any actual evidence that the stasis pod in Entangled was originally meant to contain Kochanski, or is it just a fan theory?

  • Fan theory. Doug said he wanted to bring back Kochanski for X but the episodes would have required location shooting. The inclination to link this to Entangled, is probably to do with the acknowledged production difficulties and that episode being written in 8 minutes. Plus Lister’s rather stupid dialogue (“Kochanski’s thirty!”) that teases this. I’m assuming that this was always intended to be the chimp. (The stuff with the chimp being turned into A WOMAN was from a subsequent 2 minute rewrite).

  • I wonder what Doug was even thinking when he put that line in that Kochanski being in her 30’s. did he forget that everyone had aged? was he writing for Lister’s stupidity to not know how old she is? if so i don’t think was a very good idea as its the audience that are the ones left confused by it.

  • I wonder what Doug was even thinking when he put that line in that Kochanski being in her 30’s. did he forget that everyone had aged? was he writing for Lister’s stupidity to not know how old she is? if so i don’t think was a very good idea as its the audience that are the ones left confused by it.

    I guess if she were in her 30s last time they saw her, then went into stasis quite soon, she’d still be in her 30s. I don’t like the implication that if it *were* her that they would expect everything to carry on as normal … but then it’s tricky, if you fell in love with an age-appropriate person then regardless of age changes, they are still fundamentally the same person … eh, maybe it’s for the best it wasn’t Kochanski. (I didn’t really like Rimmer falling for Irene either because of the age gap, though that’s maybe more ambiguous because he’s a hologram – but then his experiences are of having lived his age, so it’s still a gap there. I mean, if she were in her late 30s, with early 50s isn’t too terrible but it doesn’t sit well with me for them to *so quickly* fancy each other. I’m not sure how old Rimmer is supposed to be though so I could be wrong, I’m just going by actor age for him.)

  • I didn’t really like Rimmer falling for Irene either because of the age gap, though that’s maybe more ambiguous because he’s a hologram – but then his experiences are of having lived his age, so it’s still a gap there.

    Well, I mean, consenting adults and all that? It would be unconventional and probably a bad idea because it is Rimmer, but there are no immediate ethical red flags raised. Unless we want to say that, due to Irene being shown as incapable of exercising her own good judgment, she lacks the ability to consent to it?

  • Yeah, I’m not convinced the age gap is an inherently bad thing. Yes, there are older men who are leery at younger women, but relationship gaps of about 20 years aren’t particularly uncommon at that age.

  • Urgh, I meant to write a witty sentence but the dog started barking demands to be taken out and instead of closing the browser I hit ‘post comment.’ I fear the respect you all have for me has significantly reduced.

  • Well, I mean, consenting adults and all that?

    True. Maybe it’s a personal squick. Plus maybe with no human society any more, notions of age-appropriateness are long done away with even for the most cautious/prudish of possible people.

  • I’ve just realised my username isn’t Urban Spaceworm. If I ever meet my past self I’ll be sure to blow him up.

  • Yeah, I’m not convinced the age gap is an inherently bad thing. Yes, there are older men who are leery at younger women, but relationship gaps of about 20 years aren’t particularly uncommon at that age.

    See the cougar, Arnie? It’s you.

  • I found a waffle lying around in the book club thread. It says: “If Kochanski had been brought in at the start of VII, rather than straight after Rimmer left, how do you think it would have affected her characterisation, relationships with the other characters, and the overall fan impression of her?”

  • I found a waffle lying around in the book club thread. It says: “If Kochanski had been brought in at the start of VII, rather than straight after Rimmer left, how do you think it would have affected her characterisation, relationships with the other characters, and the overall fan impression of her?”

    This.

    Maybe she’d be seen less as a replacement and it wouldn’t have put so much pressure on the character and the actress. Give her time to establish herself, rather than the feeling of “Rimmer’s gone, we don’t know if he’s coming back. Who’s this and why isn’t she as funny as Rimmer?”

  • I found a waffle lying around in the book club thread. It says: “If Kochanski had been brought in at the start of VII, rather than straight after Rimmer left, how do you think it would have affected her characterisation, relationships with the other characters, and the overall fan impression of her?”

    I was having this conversation with people the other day, but the other way around. What if there was more of a gap between Rimmer leaving and Kochanski joining, rather than the very next episode.

    They could have done Stoke, Blue, even Duck Soup, and then had brought Kochanski in with Ouroborus followed by Beyond a Joke etc ….

    I think a few episodes of just the 3 of them on their own with something missing would have made for some interesting TV, and then finding Kochanski would have changed their spirits somewhat. Also, after a period of mourning Rimmer’s leaving and Lister having to live sort of on his own, he’d find some new meaning to life finding out he his is own father and suddenly being thrust back together with Kochanski.

    I just sort of feels saying goodbye to Rimmer and introducing Kochanski in the next episode doesn’t do any story or character drama/development justice.

  • I agree that would’ve been a better way to go than Rimmer and Kochanski both being members of the Starbug crew for a few episodes before Rimmer’s departure. If there had been an interesting, funny dynamic between the two of them, then that would just be another good thing about Rimmer that was suddenly missing from the show when he left. Either way I guess viewers would have just been getting used to a new status quo and then it would have changed again, but I agree that Lister-Cat-Kryten episodes would have been interesting. Then again, there might have been some mileage in Rimmer feeling like Lister no longer needed him around to keep him sane or whatever with Kochanski there, and that contributing to his decision to become Ace and leave.

    How about finding Holly earlier, either before Rimmer leaves or before the introduction of Kochanski?

  • But they also needed to let Kochanski settle in within 8 the episodes. and in series 7 she has about 6 episodes. so if you give 2 episodes worth of space after rimmer leaves, it would give her only 4. which i dunno if it would be enough for the audience to get used to her..

  • But they also needed to let Kochanski settle in within 8 the episodes. and in series 7 she has about 6 episodes. so if you give 2 episodes worth of space after rimmer leaves, it would give her only 4. which i dunno if it would be enough for the audience to get used to her..

    Does the audience ever get used to her?

  • Inspired by the ‘clean-off’ sequence in Siliconia, my waffle question would be…

    What have been the biggest wastes of budget in Dwarf history?

  • What have been the biggest wastes of budget in Dwarf history?

    I feel like this is like someone at DJ asking Danny what his favourite moment is, knowing full well he’s going to sing Tongue Tied in response.

  • I feel like this is like someone at DJ asking Danny what his favourite moment is, knowing full well he’s going to sing Tongue Tied in response.

    Ah, but I said “wastes” plural. So Pete could be swept aside within 5 seconds… :)

  • Does the audience ever get used to her?

    Well she has her introduction, her settling in period and her settled in period within 6 episodes. perhaps 4 wouldn’t have been enough

    What have been the biggest wastes of budget in Dwarf history?

    Some of the sequences in Series 8 might be a good contender for that

  • What have been the biggest wastes of budget in Dwarf history?

    Aside from the obvious (Blue Midget dance, the fucking dinosaur), I think Series VIII in general was an exercise in wasting money or prioritising the wrong things. Poor financial management. Without that dance or the dinosaur, it’s possible that there may have been a better conclusion to the series.

    Sadly indicative of a time in the show when more thought was being put into gimmicky moments than overall quality.

  • What have been the biggest wastes of budget in Dwarf history?

    I suppose the obvious answers are things that went unused like the Despair Squid model and Howard Goodall’s XII score. Not that I know how much anything cost.

  • What have been the biggest wastes of budget in Dwarf history?

    Hiring Paul Alexander? Sorry not sorry.

  • <

    What have been the biggest wastes of budget in Dwarf history?

    There’s so much model work gone unused right? Like a lot of VII before they had to change to CGI? And then all the stuff in The Beginning that was scrapped. The failed flyover Red Dwarf shot for the credits.

  • In terms of Kochanski being introduced to the show, I’m not sure it could have worked no matter how they had done it. Of course her essentially replacing possibly the most popular character didn’t help, but I don’t think Doug and the other writers were capable of successfully introducing a female character at that point.

    The show might have been better off with just the three main characters and Holly returning, but he could never have been a direct replacement for Rimmer obviously (and Norman would have struggled without an audience as well). The tension could probably have come from the characters no longer having Rimmer to rail against, so they would take their petty grievances out on each other.

    Series VII was always going to be a struggle, and perhaps they only way they could really have overcome the difficulties would have been to focus less on the characters and more on the plots. That’s just a personal opinion though, as I know that plenty of people enjoy that series.

  • I guess what’s somewhat frustrating is that Chris comes back so soon. So we don’t get settled dynamic of just Lister, Cat, Kryten and Kochanski. As soon as she’s established Rimmer is back and the entire show changes on itself. Had Chris decided not to return we might have got a very different series VIII and possibly a run with Kochanski that we much more fondly remember.

  • I didn’t really like Rimmer falling for Irene either because of the age gap

    Sorry to come back to this, but: Having read an unrelated post elsewhere on this topic, I have revised my opinion. Problems tend to be when the age gap reflects an imbalance of power/maturity/experience (any or all) and in this case … well it’s Rimmer, so having lived longer doesn’t make him necessarily more mature or having learned from what he’s experienced. It’s also not a case that women closer to his age are put off by any immaturity because other people are not an issue, this age gap practically *does* exist in a vacuum (unlike real life) – and ultimately I think they’re both probably on par in terms of maturity (and power) and therefore it’s okay.

    Phew.

  • I didn’t really like Rimmer falling for Irene either because of the age gap

    Sorry to come back to this, but: Having read an unrelated post elsewhere on this topic, I have revised my opinion. Problems tend to be when the age gap reflects an imbalance of power/maturity/experience (any or all) and in this case … well it’s Rimmer, so having lived longer doesn’t make him necessarily more mature or having learned from what he’s experienced. It’s also not a case that women closer to his age are put off by any immaturity because other people are not an issue, this age gap practically *does* exist in a vacuum (unlike real life) – and ultimately I think they’re both probably on par in terms of maturity (and power) and therefore it’s okay.
    Phew.

    Yes I agree with you. Women who have relationships with younger men are usually a little bit strange and men who date older women are usually a little bit desperate. But the other way is alright as long as it’s legal. You are correct.

  • The age issue isn’t a big deal IMO. older people date younger people in real life. it happens. its their choice. their life. i’m just more concerned as to why that got through into the script at all. i mean Doug has to think stuff up. and even if we say that She left red dwarf when she was 31 and has been gone since then. then she has been gone a long ass time.

    The only thing that would make sense is that Lister is just a moron and Doug thought that line worked ok because of that. but unless you make that clear then it just looks like Doug is the stupid one. and he is the writer.

  • Yes I agree with you. Women who have relationships with younger men are usually a little bit strange and men who date older women are usually a little bit desperate. But the other way is alright as long as it’s legal. You are correct.

    There comes a time when diplomacy, tact and learned discourse need to take a backseat to allow free speech. With that in mind:

    Just fuck off now, please, you tedious cunt.

  • Just thought of a waffleman topic

    Dave era lines/quotes that have entered your everyday speech.

    Thought of this whilst going through old Dwarfcasts and how you guys regularly mention things like “don’t give me that Star Trek crap” became phrases you often repeat (same for a lot of fans). So is there anything from the last 12 years (yes 12 fucking years – Red Dwarf has been on Dave Longer than it was on the BBC at this point) that has slipped into everyday(ish) usage?

  • Dave era lines/quotes that have entered your everyday speech.
    Thought of this whilst going through old Dwarfcasts and how you guys regularly mention things like “don’t give me that Star Trek crap” became phrases you often repeat (same for a lot of fans). So is there anything from the last 12 years (yes 12 fucking years – Red Dwarf has been on Dave Longer than it was on the BBC at this point) that has slipped into everyday(ish) usage?

    Great topic! I wonder if anyone quotes from episodes they dislike or even hate. I used to insert dialogue from series 7 or 8 into everyday life and, as such, I was shunned by most of my family and all of my friends and have been forced to move from Croydon, which was actually a blessing in disguise.

    On a related note, admittedly I only have anecdotal evidence for this, but pulling Rimmer’s facial expressions from Cassandra* has the exact result you’d expect it to.

    But to get back to the actual topic…

    My sister regularly quotes “he hath risen!” from Lemons when I come down for late afternoon breakfast. Also, I used to quote the “yeah!” guy from the prison scene in Trading Places, but now it’s morphed into an impression or Mr Rat. I think I remember “go, begone and go!” being mentioned on a previous podcast, which is something I also say at any opportunity available. Everyone gets the reference and they are always delighted to shout it back at me.

    *This is objectively the best way of phrasing it.

  • I used to insert dialogue from series 7 or 8 into everyday life and, as such, I was shunned by most of my family and all of my friends

    Hanging a “have a fantastic period” banner up in your mother’s bedroom once a month was probably a bad idea tbh.

  • I occasionally give a ‘Hey Ho, Pip and Dandy’, but even then, it’s a bit forced.

    Admittedly, other people give it different names, don’t need to force it and are a bit cheaper.

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