Objection! News Posted by Ian Symes on 6th February 2021, 22:16 Today was the first day of Holly Hop, and despite the presence of Rob Grant and Paul Jackson, two of the three remaining directors of Grant Naylor Productions, we really didn’t expect this week’s rather shocking news to be mentioned, especially considering the Fan Club team politely requested of attendees that it wasn’t brought up during Q&As throughout the day. However, it was clear from very early on in their appearance, as they prepared to commentate on White Hole alongside their usual cohort Ed Bye, that the pair wanted to address the topic. So they both did, and then some. Here is an exact, verbatim transcript of what they said, starting with Rob Grant: I’ve got to address the elephant in the room, really. Hello, Nellie. There’s been a bit of chat about certain developments, and honestly we’re not going to go into them here. Today, we’re here for fun, we’re here to meet our pals and talk about the show we all like. That’s it, across the globe, it’s about fun and it’s about virtual companionship, that’s what we’re doing here. Having said that, I know a lot of you are distressed, understandably. I’ve seen in the forum about reports about the killing of Red Dwarf. I can honestly reassure everyone, we have no intention of killing off Red Dwarf. It’s a mad suggestion. Anyone who’s seen any of these commentaries must know how we feel about the show. We all want Red Dwarf to go on and on and on. We want series and specials and stage shows and movies and spin-offs. We want Red Dwarf flying out of our buttskis. Why wouldn’t we? Seriously? And I would really love, personally, to write some of it, just for the record. So don’t worry, we all want the small rouge one to carry on, even more than you do. And honestly, let’s not clog up the chat line with any more of this nonsense. After an interjection about accidentally spilling rum all over his computer and printer, Paul Jackson then continued: Listen, just to echo what Rob says, of course we want this done. And having worked with him this week, it’s been a joy, for the first time in 25 years, to work with Rob on a new Red Dwarf script. It’s only a little cameo, you’ll see it tomorrow. I hope you get as much fun out of it as we have already. But there’s no way that he doesn’t love writing and creating situations and dialogue for these characters. So look, we all want it to happen. Talk is cheap. And I would just say this. Anybody can say they want it to happen, of course they can. We’ve actually already signed up. Just to be very clear, we’ve already signed our contract for the next iteration of Red Dwarf, whatever it may be, a new special or series, whatever it may be. We signed it last year, everything was negotiated and agreed, we happily signed. Everything was set out – how many, how much, how long. It stipulates very clearly that Doug will be the writer, the director and the executive producer of any such commission. And we’re all delighted and thrilled, and we quite honestly thought by this time we’d have got it going. So we’re ready and waiting, there’s nothing we could do to stop it if we wanted to, because we’ve signed a contract already. So when we say we want to see it happen, we want it so much we’ve already signed our contract. So come on boys, let’s get this together and get something else commissioned. The pair then both excitedly exclaimed “yay, more Red Dwarf“, and there was much rejoicing. So what to make of this? Clearly there are elements of these speeches that contradict what was reported in the Daily Mail, but then we always knew that we were only getting half a story, at most. It’s not for us to speculate about who’s right and wrong, as we simply have no idea where the truth lies, although I suspect it’s somewhere in the middle. I’m now holding out hope that a lot of it boils down to misunderstanding and miscommunication. The impression you get from Paul is that there’s every chance that these legal hurdles can be cleared – his closing lines sound like a rallying cry for all parties to sit down and get it all sorted. He certainly seems clear that he and Rob are more than happy for Doug to continue to make new Dwarf, even going as far as signing a contract to indicate as such. To clarify, as some of the inital second-hand reports from the convention may have lead to confusion, he’s not saying that a new series or special has been green lit, but merely that permission has been granted by Grant Naylor Productions for a commission to be sought, as I understand it. It’s definitely a much, much more positive picture than the one that was painted the other day. Yes, there’s currently a problem. Yes, there’s seemingly a legal issue. Yes, it’s still deeply unpleasant that it’s come to this. But now it doesn’t seem insurmountable. There have always been problems with new Red Dwarf getting made – like we said the other day, it’s never fucking easy, is it? – but it always seems to come good in the end. Maybe this is just yet another delay, rather than a full stop. And then there’s the other thing. Rob Grant wants to write more Red Dwarf. Yes please. The chances of him and Doug ever writing together again were already slim before this week, and now they’re so slim that they only exist on a sub-atomic level. I would never want Doug to stop writing Red Dwarf either, and quite apart from the fact that it would be fundamentally wrong to take it away from him after being the sole creative custodian for around a quarter of a century, Paul clearly specified that the deal that’s in place includes Doug at its heart, fulfilling the exact same roles he’s covered since Back To Earth. But I can see a world in which they both write Red Dwarf, but separately. Some people have suggested that they could split writing duties on a series, taking three episodes each, but that doesn’t seem tenable to me. Instead, how about Doug continues with TV Red Dwarf, producing more and more specials every year or two, and Rob covers the other things he tantalisingly mentions. Spin-offs or novels or audio plays. An expanded Red Dwarf universe, with both of the show’s creators at the helm. We could end up with Doug Dwarf *and* Rob Dwarf. Pinch me.
Thanks for the info. Personal verdict = Meh! I’m clearly Mr cynical. I just don’t buy it “Yeah we want more Red Dwarf. Yeah we want Doug to do it… oh but we’ve booted him out as director”. Makes no sense. All very weird. Someone (on both sides possibly) is not being as upfront as they could be. But then, they don’t need to justify themselves to us. It’s private business in a private business. Just all a bit lame. Sigh
Meh! I’m clearly Mr cynical. I just don’t buy it “Yeah we want more Red Dwarf. Yeah we want Doug to do it… oh but we’ve booted him out as director”. Makes no sense. All very weird. Someone (on both sides possibly) is not being as upfront as they could be. But then, they don’t need to justify themselves to us. Just all a bit lame. They straight out said they didn’t boot him out as director. from what they said they already signed for him to do it. The interesting thing to take out of this is that Rob wants some involvement with writing Red Dwarf again. to what degree that is. who knows.
I hope they reach a swift and just settlement. Nobody wants to see this go to the actual courts, I am sure.
They straight out said they didn’t boot him out as director. from what they said they already signed for him to do it. Important to note the distinction between director of a company and director of a TV show! Doug leaving the board of GNP wasn’t addressed.
This has reminded me quite how much I love and respect Paul Jackson. And, bizarrely, how it’s all gotten very Gary Barlow and Robbie Williams. There’s a Dwarf comparison I never thought I’d make.
Meh! I’m clearly Mr cynical. I just don’t buy it “Yeah we want more Red Dwarf. Yeah we want Doug to do it… oh but we’ve booted him out as director”. Makes no sense. All very weird. Someone (on both sides possibly) is not being as upfront as they could be. But then, they don’t need to justify themselves to us. Just all a bit lame. They straight out said they didn’t boot him out as director. from what they said they already signed for him to do it. Well yeah. But he isn’t a company director anymore. So like I said, something doesn’t seem right. Anyway, it probably isn’t healthy for us to waste energy trying to solve the mystery like Scooby-Doo – as, like the original break up between Rob and Doug, we will never, ever know what it was about, nor do we have any right to know why (although David Walliams said it was over a house or something)?! Just hope a new series or special will be funny! Oh and bring back the Blue Midget, please!
They straight out said they didn’t boot him out as director. from what they said they already signed for him to do it. Important to note the distinction between director of a company and director of a TV show! Doug leaving the board of GNP wasn’t addressed. Yeah sorry I meant company director rather than tv director.
Ahh but on which side of the ‘resignation’ was the not-commission commission commissioned though? Ahh. I’ll gladly take new Red Dwarf as it arises but anything new post-VIII is a bonus for me.
Ahh but on which side of the ‘resignation’ was the not-commission commission commissioned though? Ahh. I’ll gladly take new Red Dwarf as it arises but anything new post-VIII is a bonus for me. Featuring blue midget. Thanks.
If this contract for the next lot of Red Dwarf was signed last year, that could easily have been before Doug’s ‘termination of appointment’, meaning while he’s ok to make that, his concern about future episodes still applies for anything following it. If anything, Rob and Paul’s positivity about the future is far more reassuring than talk about contracts.
Well this is heartening. > We could end up with Doug Dwarf *and* Rob Dwarf. There’d be two Red Dwarfs — one for the week and one for Sunday best!
They straight out said they didn’t boot him out as director. from what they said they already signed for him to do it. Important to note the distinction between director of a company and director of a TV show! Doug leaving the board of GNP wasn’t addressed. Shouldn’t company Director be capitalised as a title? To help the distinction? Or would that also apply to TV director?
Interesting stuff. Still a lot more questions than answers, but it will be intriguing to see how this pans out.
Oh man I’d love to see Rob write some more novels. I’ve been wanting some more expanded universe stuff for a little while and yeah that’d fill the spot perfectly. I hope this court business gets sorted out amicably and quickly. What a dibbley!
Thanks for the write up guys. I did buy a ticket to the event but couldn’t quite bring myself to crawl out bed at 3am Pacific time to watch it, so appreciate the details. Bit of an unpleasant business all this, but hopefully it all ends swiftly and amicably and things start moving again. Personally I’d love to see another novel from Rob, and maybe Doug can finally publish that illustrated movie script book/graphic novel I’ve been banging on about for the last decade. I’d also like to be three inches taller and win the Euromillions. Thanks.
Another novel from Rob would certainly be an appetising proposition and, in response to a comment in another thread, I would be very surprised if a publisher decided not to go with it. Any Red Dwarf novel would be pretty much guaranteed to be a bestseller and, unlike a new TV series, wouldn’t require the outlay of millions of pounds.
If there’s a new novel, an unabridged reading by Arnold Rimmer (who played Chris Barrie) would be the icing on the cake.
There’s nothing there addressing the elephant in the room at all. It all sounds very Neville Chamberlain to me.
There’s nothing there addressing the elephant in the room at all. It all sounds very Neville Chamberlain to me. He says: “Hello, Nellie.” What more do you want? A singing telegram?
The “for the record” from Rob is interesting. Is he referring to the past or making a statement on the future? What I mean by that is:- He could be saying “contrary to what has been reported before, I am interested in writing more for the show, despite the popular belief that I have been asked and declined”. Or it could mean, “I would like to do more on the show, so just in case another series/special comes out without my involvement, you can take that to mean that I wasn’t asked to participate, despite my willingness to do so and any issues regarding that lie elsewhere”.
At the end of the chat after the sketch Rob said to Ed. “I would love to work With you again. One day”
The “for the record” from Rob is interesting. Is he referring to the past or making a statement on the future? What I mean by that is:- I think its a statement on the future. if you seen any fairly recent Rob interviews or appearances in the last few years, he has never straight up said he would like to write more Red Dwarf. so him even saying this now, says some interesting developments. I just wonder what his options are when it comes to writing new material.
The murky world of Red Dwarf production somehow finds more ways to get even murkier! Do we actually have clarity over the situation with what happened in terms of Doug’s position as Director for GNP? Was he kicked out or did he resign? The general sentiment seems to be leaning slightly toward “Rob is the trigger for stuff heading south” at this point but I’m wondering whether in this infinite number of parallel universes where every possibility exists there’s a chance that we are looking more at a “Doug throwing toys out of the pram” kind of situation? Did Rob start to express more of an interest in getting back involved in Dwarf production and Doug, who feels the weight of having kept it going over the last 25 years, thinks “screw that mate, you can’t just waltz in here and pick it up again like that” so he’s taken his ball and gone home? It’s all rampant speculation at this point I guess.
I think all we know about that is that from Companies House, Doug was “terminated” as director on March 13, 2020. This is a neutral term they’d use for any type of cession to be a director (including a death). Companies aren’t required to post board meeting minutes or stuff like that. From other filings it appears that company is owned half by Noel Gay Television, and then a quarter each to Doug and Rob. As of 2016 Noel Gay Television was itself owned half by Charles Armitage and half by Lesley Armitage. It appears that Lesley inherited these shares and then has not disposed of them. While digging I discovered two other Red Dwarf-related companies. Red Dwarf Films Limited, which seems to have been set up for the production of the film by Doug and Charles in 2001. It has been dormant I think the entire time. There is also a Baby Cow Productions (Red Dwarf) Ltd, which is a subsidiary of Baby Cow, which would be the vehicle by which Baby Cow are involved. It actually has some substantial accounts. Weirdly, Baby Cow is owned by the BBC now, so the BBC makes Red Dwarf! I think the court filing would clear a lot of things up, but that’s not surfaced yet, though I think it is technically public? Given that that exists, speculation as to what might be in it seems kind of pointless.
The murky world of Red Dwarf production somehow finds more ways to get even murkier! Do we actually have clarity over the situation with what happened in terms of Doug’s position as Director for GNP? Was he kicked out or did he resign? The general sentiment seems to be leaning slightly toward “Rob is the trigger for stuff heading south” at this point but I’m wondering whether in this infinite number of parallel universes where every possibility exists there’s a chance that we are looking more at a “Doug throwing toys out of the pram” kind of situation? Did Rob start to express more of an interest in getting back involved in Dwarf production and Doug, who feels the weight of having kept it going over the last 25 years, thinks “screw that mate, you can’t just waltz in here and pick it up again like that” so he’s taken his ball and gone home? It’s all rampant speculation at this point I guess. This would make a lot more sense and was where my thoughts went when I read about the situation. Of course it’s all speculation but is it a case of Doug saying… “This is my ball now and nobody can play with it but me…”
I think all we know about that is that from Companies House, Doug was “terminated” as director on March 13, 2020. This is a neutral term they’d use for any type of cession to be a director (including a death). Companies aren’t required to post board meeting minutes or stuff like that. From other filings it appears that company is owned half by Noel Gay Television, and then a quarter each to Doug and Rob. As of 2016 Noel Gay Television was itself owned half by Charles Armitage and half by Lesley Armitage. It appears that Lesley inherited these shares and then has not disposed of them. While digging I discovered two other Red Dwarf-related companies. Red Dwarf Films Limited, which seems to have been set up for the production of the film by Doug and Charles in 2001. It has been dormant I think the entire time. There is also a Baby Cow Productions (Red Dwarf) Ltd, which is a subsidiary of Baby Cow, which would be the vehicle by which Baby Cow are involved. It actually has some substantial accounts. Weirdly, Baby Cow is owned by the BBC now, so the BBC makes Red Dwarf! I think the court filing would clear a lot of things up, but that’s not surfaced yet, though I think it is technically public? Given that that exists, speculation as to what might be in it seems kind of pointless. Lol. Noel Gay
You are a understand to what myself appreciation? flatulence. And lots for it. Myself wished Rob and Doug will create that. Security myself intelligent this would do be don’t more Red Dwarf :o( Cheers guys!
Noel Gay is a big showbiz agency if people didn’t know. It was started by Charles Artimage’s grandfather.
I’ve now completely forgotten what this topic was about. There are about three or four threads on the go at the moment that, to me, just seem to be bleeding together.
I’ve now completely forgotten what this topic was about. There are about three or four threads on the go at the moment that, to me, just seem to be bleeding together. Why don’t we combine three threads into one though?
There are about three or four threads on the go at the moment that, to me, just seem to be bleeding together. I keep having that experience of “oh look, lots of new posts!….oh.” (I imagine this is how the Idea For An Episode thread feels for most people.)
(I imagine this is how the Idea For An Episode thread feels for most people.) Almost 10,000 posts in, and they’re only now starting to feel empathy for others.
THE FIRST 10,000 POSTS Contributors to the Idea For An Episode thread look back over their works and despair.
THE FIRST 10,000 POSTS Contributors to the Idea For An Episode thread look back over their works and despair. I steer well clear of that thread!
I have a mental block where that thread is concerned. My eyes glide over it without even noticing it these days.
Rob’s solo version will probably start with a Backwards style STAR WARS opening crawl that retcons everything Doug has done since VI
We’ve got to start over for Grant’s solo vision of the show though. I assume he’ll be mining that thread for some plot ideas.
We’ve got to start over for Grant’s solo vision of the show though. I assume he’ll be mining that thread for some plot ideas. Maybe it should be an official competition. Whoever posts the 10,000th idea gets that idea made into a feature length episode. I’m pretty sure nothing could go wrong with that.
We’ve got to start over for Grant’s solo vision of the show though. I assume he’ll be mining that thread for some plot ideas. Maybe it should be an official competition. Whoever posts the 10,000th idea gets that idea made into a feature length episode. I’m pretty sure nothing could go wrong with that. If you didn’t already think that thread was a race to post the most tenuous bollocks then imagine what it would be like when there’s suddenly a reward for posting so much of it.
Rob’s solo version will probably start with a Backwards style STAR WARS opening crawl that retcons everything Doug has done since VI The very idea of a ‘retcon’ is pretty insulting though. Would anyone genuinely want that? I’m intrigued. Whatever you may think of everything since 1996, bottom line is those adventures happened, onscreen, they are never being erased. This is Red Dwarf canon. Alternate universes may apply… Also, other actors playing the Dwarfers, in any official capacity, sounds equally horrifying, to me. This was voted against, in the various stages of Movie pre-production, and for good reason. Red Dwarf IS the cast we have always known. Fans, from the old era or new, base their love for the show on those four guys, it’s as simple as that. I think you’ll find a vast quantity of the millions of viewers who’ve seen Dwarf, over the past 30 odd years, couldn’t give a flying fuck who’s name(s) were under the writing credit; though have anyone other than Chris Barrie playing Arnold Rimmer and the words ‘uphill’ and ‘struggle’ come to mind.
I think it’s fair to say we won’t be getting a new version with different actors or a retconned version any time soon.
Maybe a reboot/recast would work if they also changed the character names and their personalities at the same time. And altered the underlying concept of the show to something different to differentiate it. And chose a new title.
Maybe a reboot/recast would work if they also changed the character names and their personalities at the same time. And altered the underlying concept of the show to something different to differentiate it. And chose a new title. They could call it ‘Police Academy’.
There’s plenty of ways of having a Red Dwarf show without the OG cast, even without getting rid of the existing canon, just have it start with a similar motley group of pillocks in a ship that’s about the explode, when they find the empty Red Dwarf adrift because everyone snuffed it. Whether it’d be popular is another matter.
Hugh Grant for Lister! J Lo for Kochanski! Snoop Dogg for Cat! Hugh was genuinely suggested as Lister for the movie.
I think it’s fair to say we won’t be getting a new version with different actors or a retconned version any time soon. Absolutely. Lucky two of the more exciting options (audio with original cast and / or a book) are the most likely routes Rob could take.
We’ve got to start over for Grant’s solo vision of the show though. I assume he’ll be mining that thread for some plot ideas. The writer’s job was to go into the most dangerous, unpleasant and smeggy situations and see if it could stay alive.
Absolutely. Lucky two of the more exciting options (audio with original cast and / or a book) are the most likely routes Rob could take. I really like the idea of audio with the original cast. Infinitely cheaper, quicker to record, better for their health and sanity (especially without Bobby needing to wear full costume) – and radio sitcom can be just as good as TV, with audiences just as enthusiastic and integral to the cast’s performances as they already are for Red Dwarf. How likely it is to happen, I would not wish to speculate, but if/when its future on screen comes into doubt I really, really hope they consider it as an option. The only thing would be accessibility, so animated might have to be considered so they have something to subtitle – or if an audio version can somehow be streamed with subtitle-equivalent transcript or captions as an option (I don’t know the technicalities, but you can’t just throw fans who need subtitles under the bus by moving it to audio without accessible options).
I think it’s fair to say we won’t be getting a new version with different actors or a retconned version any time soon. Absolutely. Lucky two of the more exciting options (audio with original cast and / or a book) are the most likely routes Rob could take. CG animation, realtime in Unreal Engine to save cash on render farms. Bobby wouldn’t have to squeeze into his sci-fi gimp suit anymore and he could wear his glasses.
Rob’s solo version will probably start with a Backwards style STAR WARS opening crawl that retcons everything Doug has done since VI The very idea of a ‘retcon’ is pretty insulting though. Would anyone genuinely want that? I’m intrigued. Whatever you may think of everything since 1996, bottom line is those adventures happened, onscreen, they are never being erased. This is Red Dwarf canon. Alternate universes may apply… Also, other actors playing the Dwarfers, in any official capacity, sounds equally horrifying, to me. This was voted against, in the various stages of Movie pre-production, and for good reason. Red Dwarf IS the cast we have always known. Fans, from the old era or new, base their love for the show on those four guys, it’s as simple as that. I think you’ll find a vast quantity of the millions of viewers who’ve seen Dwarf, over the past 30 odd years, couldn’t give a flying fuck who’s name(s) were under the writing credit; though have anyone other than Chris Barrie playing Arnold Rimmer and the words ‘uphill’ and ‘struggle’ come to mind. Oh I’m not actually advocating this as my desired outcome, just riffing on the potential scenario where Rob and Doug want to see their vision of Dwarf as the “correct” one! I could see their separate contributions to Dwarf existing in separate timelines in much the same way the last two books did (and of course the books already exist in something of a splinter continuity from the show) A new book from Rob would be a great outcome I think, Backwards probably wasn’t written at a time where it could showcase the best of what he had to offer in terms of continuing the boys adventures in text (and the same is true of Last Human). Something new where he was writing under more auspicious circumstances could prove to be excellent. His written work has certainly improved since that time in my view. Audiobooks would also be a fantastic option!
The only thing would be accessibility, so animated might have to be considered so they have something to subtitle – or if an audio version can somehow be streamed with subtitle-equivalent transcript or captions as an option (I don’t know the technicalities, but you can’t just throw fans who need subtitles under the bus by moving it to audio without accessible options). Living in a continent where audio drama production itself seems to be a lost art, the fact accessibility for them is even being considered at all in the UK goes to show how much further along you are.
Living in a continent where audio drama production itself seems to be a lost art, the fact accessibility for them is even being considered at all in the UK goes to show how much further along you are. Oh no, I don’t know that the industry necessarily considers it! This is just me hoping it would be a consideration, especially as I know for a fact there are active fans who *need* the subtitles, as well as many others who can get by without them but certainly benefit from having them.
In terms of Red Dwarf canon, I can’t get too precious about it. Especially as so many aspects of Dwarf completely contradict themselves. There is no one definitive canon now and I’m sure any fan has their own ideas about the characters and what they discount. And with regard to the hypothetical concept of different cast members playing the characters, it’s not necessarily a bad idea. I agree that it won’t happen in the immediate future, but if that were the only way to make a movie then it could work depending on the actors chosen. Nearly every BBC sitcom has been updated in some form or other with a new cast (to varying degrees of success) and it wouldn’t be surprising if the same happened to Dwarf at some point.
“There’s no point in concealing it any more, Doug and me, we’ve had a little bit of a tiff” One of them might have to be ippy-dippied to death. If we pretend we’re going to get rid of Doug, d’ya think he’ll tell us how they escaped after Series 8, now that he’s doomed?
