DwarfCast 165 – Father of Dwarf: Son of Cliché at 40 DwarfCasts Posted by Ian Symes on 23rd August 2023, 08:45 Subscribe to DwarfCasts: RSS • iTunes “Doctor Fitzwilliam: Village Rectologist” At 6:30pm on Tuesday 23rd August 1983, unsuspecting Radio 4 listeners were ambushed by the very first episode of a seminal new sketch show. Featuring a hugely talented cast, performing the work of two writers who were on the fast track to greatness, it was notable not only for its inherent quality, but for what it would eventually spawn. The programme was, of course, Son of Cliché, without which this podcast would not exist. So in a break from the usual format, we present our fortieth anniversary tribute in the form of a documentary, showcasing some highlights from the series, analysing what made it so great, and of course focusing on the moments that had the biggest influence on Red Dwarf. Think it was just Dave Hollins: Space Cadet that Rob and Doug drew upon? Think again. DwarfCast 165 – Father of Dwarf: Son of Cliché at 40 (76.7MB) This was a huge amount of fun to put together, so we hope you enjoyed this somewhat different DwarfCast. Don’t worry, the two Yorkshire ones will be back next time. Maybe. Show notes The complete series of Cliché and Son of Cliché on archive.org The original “Father of Dwarf” article, published nearly 20 years ago Our old SoC section on an ancient version of the site John Hoare’s History of a Joke article Oh, and we also recommend looking at the original Radio Times listings for the show, for bonus jokes
You can really tell the Hitchhiker’s influence on some of the Son of Cliche bits, in a way Red Dwarf itself avoids. The biro sketch is basically a longer version of a Hitchhiker’s bit about a guy who theorizes a planet of the biros. There are other bits that rang reminiscent, but this one is a definite “wow”.
I don’t get why Son of Cliché is considered so distinct an entity from Cliché, isn’t it basically the revamped series 2 & 3 with a different name and Chris Barrie? This may be explained in the podcast.
Enjoyed that a lot, although it felt way too organised to be a Dwarfcast. Next time you do a documentary we need Danny and Cappsy for that patented G&T chaos. But yeah, lovely stuff Ian, cheers!
Q: Why did you decide to make a solo podcast?A: Because I got a Studer four-track recording machine at home – practiced on it – liked the results, and decided to make it into a podcast. Q: Were you influenced by Cappsy’s adventures with Twitter, and Danny’s solo work?A: Sort of, but not really. Q: Is all talking by Ian Symes alone?A: Yes sir. Q: Will they be so credited: Symes?A: It’s a bit daft for them to be Symes/Capps/Stephenson credited, so “Symes” it is. Q: Did you enjoy working as a solo podcaster?A: Very much. I only had me to ask for a decision, and I agreed with me. Q: The podcast was not known about until it was nearly completed. Was this deliberate?A: Yes, because normally a podcast is old before it even comes out. Q: Why?A: I’ve always wanted to download a Dwarfcast like people do and be as surprised as they must be. So this was the next best thing. I’m the only one who will be sick of it by the release date. I love it really. Q: Why did you do all the talking yourself?A: I think I’m pretty good. Q: What has recording alone taught you?A: That to make your own decisions about what you do is easy, and playing with yourself is very difficult, but satisfying. Q: Did you miss the other Dwarfcasters? Was there a moment when you thought, ‘I wish Cappsy was here for this joke?’A: No. Q: Assuming this is a very big hit Dwarfcast, will you do another?A: Even if it isn’t, I will continue to do what I want, when I want to. Q: Are you planning a new album or single with Cappsy and Danny?A: No. Q: Is this album a rest away from the other Dwarfcasters or the start of a solo career?A: Time will tell. Being a solo Dwarfcast means it’s “the start of a solo career…” and not being done with Cappsy and Danny means it’s just a rest. So it’s both. Q: Is your break with Cappsy and Danny temporary or permanent, due to personal differences or Dwarf ones?A: Personal differences, business differences, Dwarf differences. Temporary or permanent? I don’t really know. Q: Do you foresee a time when Symes-Capps-Stephenson becomes an active Dwarfcasting partnership again?A: No. Q: Have you any plans to set up an independent production company?A: Symes Productions. Q: What sort of music has influenced you on this Dwarfcast?A: Light and loose. Q: Are you talking more prolifically now? Or less so?A: About the same. I have a queue waiting to be recorded. Q: What are your plans now? A holiday? A musical? A movie? Retirement?A: My only plan is to grow up!
Really enjoyed this. That eight-foot gorilla sketch from Cliché has shades of ‘Jenny Hill’ from Three of a Kind, which I’d put money on Rob and Doug having had a hand in what with the gender role-reversal and commentary on sexist attitudes à la Parallel Universe. Interesting that Nick Maloney was cast as McIntyre. Presumably his version would’ve been Australian as originally intended. The Jan Vogels gag is in the USA pilot as well. It’s Harry Johnson instead but he’s still a short guy with red hair (at least in the ‘Early Edit’ version)
Lovely stuff. I didn’t twig until now just how lazy Rob and Doug were being when they wrote Red Dwarf. We’re all in agreement that the Red Dwarf script extract version of the Jan Vogels bit is the weakest version, right? It’s funny because they’re genuinely trying to be specific but don’t realise how much a full name isn’t enough. Them just saying “Bill” kills it. Also,
This was absolutely top notch pod. Thank you so much for making it. Radio standard stuff. No, better than radio because you did things you could only do in podcast form (if only the runtime). Absolutely sensational, thanks for introducing us to so much interesting deep dive stuff. (the alphabet sketch was great, wasn’t it? “A bee, see?” Hah!)
Q: Why did you decide to make a solo podcast?A: Because I got a Studer four-track recording machine at home – practiced on it – liked the results, and decided to make it into a podcast. Q: Were you influenced by Cappsy’s adventures with Twitter, and Danny’s solo work?A: Sort of, but not really. Q: Is all talking by Ian Symes alone?A: Yes sir. Q: Will they be so credited: Symes?A: It’s a bit daft for them to be Symes/Capps/Stephenson credited, so “Symes” it is. Q: Did you enjoy working as a solo podcaster?A: Very much. I only had me to ask for a decision, and I agreed with me. Q: The podcast was not known about until it was nearly completed. Was this deliberate?A: Yes, because normally a podcast is old before it even comes out. Q: Why?A: I’ve always wanted to download a Dwarfcast like people do and be as surprised as they must be. So this was the next best thing. I’m the only one who will be sick of it by the release date. I love it really. Q: Why did you do all the talking yourself?A: I think I’m pretty good. Q: What has recording alone taught you?A: That to make your own decisions about what you do is easy, and playing with yourself is very difficult, but satisfying. Q: Did you miss the other Dwarfcasters? Was there a moment when you thought, ‘I wish Cappsy was here for this joke?’A: No. Q: Assuming this is a very big hit Dwarfcast, will you do another?A: Even if it isn’t, I will continue to do what I want, when I want to. Q: Are you planning a new album or single with Cappsy and Danny?A: No. Q: Is this album a rest away from the other Dwarfcasters or the start of a solo career?A: Time will tell. Being a solo Dwarfcast means it’s “the start of a solo career…” and not being done with Cappsy and Danny means it’s just a rest. So it’s both. Q: Is your break with Cappsy and Danny temporary or permanent, due to personal differences or Dwarf ones?A: Personal differences, business differences, Dwarf differences. Temporary or permanent? I don’t really know. Q: Do you foresee a time when Symes-Capps-Stephenson becomes an active Dwarfcasting partnership again?A: No. Q: Have you any plans to set up an independent production company?A: Symes Productions. Q: What sort of music has influenced you on this Dwarfcast?A: Light and loose. Q: Are you talking more prolifically now? Or less so?A: About the same. I have a queue waiting to be recorded. Q: What are your plans now? A holiday? A musical? A movie? Retirement?A: My only plan is to grow up! What is this?
What is this? Something that was an idea that amused me, but has probably gone down like an unusually heavy balloon. The combination of Ian’s comment about ‘back next time. Maybe’ and Cappsy’s tweet about being surprised when this arrived out of the blue went down tangents in my brain until it reached the idea that it would be an amusing situation if it was laid over elements of Paul McCartney’s “I’m quitting the Beatles” self-interview that I thought would be reasonably famous enough to raise a small laugh.The idea got funnier the more I drank. And now it sits there like I’m shit-stirring and I am sober and it is early and probably the majority of people don’t get it. It’s a niche reference, admittedly!
That sketch where (almost) the entire conversation is had in letters of the alphabet is one of the cleverest bits of linguistic comedy I’ve ever heard.
Paul McCartney’s “I’m quitting the Beatles” self-interview and probably the majority of people don’t get it. I got the reference! 😏
tbf, writing a wall of text that doesn’t go down as well as you wanted is almost a G&T rite of passage. I did the same, but mine were published as articles.
Something that was an idea that amused me, but has probably gone down like an unusually heavy balloon. Well I thought it was quite funny. Though to be fair my foggy brain didn’t clock the username and just assumed it was Mr Symes himself. I can’t decide whether it’s less or more funny that it was not him.
And now it sits there like I’m shit-stirring and I am sober and it is early and probably the majority of people don’t get it. It’s a niche reference, admittedly! for what it’s worth I thought it was hilarious.
This was an excellent listen. Love the comparisons of how the various versions of these jokes have evolved over the years, and great to hear some other material from the show that I’ve never heard before.
Still not listened to this one (Currently on Part III of the Backwards podcast) but looking forward to it.Thanks for the kind words on my ‘wall of text’ all. I feel less like I did a thing that was a mistake.
I’ve been listing to this in fits and starts on the school run etc. and I wanted to say that, firstly, it’s a fantastic and really professional piece of work. It’s taken a lot of dedication and knowledge of this subject to pull it off, and I hope Rob and Doug become aware of it. Secondly – some of the stuff is, still, really laugh out loud funny. The conceit of crashing the announcers with the drunkenness, hamburgers and the hilarious Goerring (him again!) stuff was absolutely hilarious. The ‘Latin play translated by a 1st year student’ was inspired (but didn’t play out quite as well as I’d hoped) but certainly ‘Son of…’ is the stronger piece. Chris is clearly the strongest performer of them all. Interesting, too, to hear more contentious bits toned down a little as the years go on. Seeing sketches move from Cliche to ‘Son of…’ and from there to RD itself as they become more tonally aware of the passing years is interesting.
Just finished it. Excellent doc. Great clips too, and often laugh out loud funny. I’d love to hear the complete episodes. Maybe a theme for some future Dwarfcasts, unless you three of you have all heard them to death and have no new comments to make on them?
