DwarfCast 166 – Re-Disc-overy: Series IV DwarfCasts Posted by Ian Symes on 6th October 2023, 13:57 Subscribe to DwarfCasts: RSS • iTunes “Ribs and Pipes and Penises (oh my!)” Our voyage of re-disc-overy continues, as we tackle a most unusual release; the one that was out in the US before the UK, and that Young Cappsy managed to review before Young Ian for once. We rake over this bitterness as well as embarking on not one, not two, but three commentaries, forgoing the tradition of focusing on one big extra in favour of covering a handful of little bitty ones, the regular features that would otherwise be glossed over. Once again, we ensure that every single aspect of the release is discussed, and along the way we re-evaluate Hattie Hayridge’s return to the role of Holly, try to get to the bottom of why the cast commentaries are so difficult to get through, and attempt to comprehensively solve the issues of both war and racism. DwarfCast 166 – Re-Disc-overy: Series IV (118MB) Show notes Contemporary reviews from Cappsy, Ian and Ian again. Series IV Deleted Scenes commentary (2013) TOS article (via The Unofficial Archive) on stock footage in Red Dwarf The Smeg Ups Rough Cut The history of feral parakeets in Great Britain Sexual assault of men played for laughs Vic Reeves and The Wonder Stuff (and Bob Mortimer) perform Dizzy on Top of the Pops Can’t Smeg Won’t Smeg commentary (2011) Pip Madeley’s remastered trailers The TV watershed was introduced in 1964, just twenty odd years earlier than we guessed during the discussion
I tend to listen to podcasts when I’m out, or doing something menial. Are the commentaries at the start of the ‘cast, or spread out a bit?
Just gone back to Livejournal to check out my own initial thoughts. Here’s how Student Si went on on February 16th 2004: And, of course: RED DWARF SERIES IV DVD. Of course, I was expecting this on Saturday, but, hey, beggars can’t be chosers. Watched all the easter eggs on Disc One first (although despite being told how to find it, I still can’t get the ‘Egg hunt’ egg – it just won’t work for me. I had to watch it by the track selection option.), then the bonus features on disc two. Didn’t watch Can’t Smeg, Won’t Smeg, cuz I’m seen that billions of times already, and I’m yet to listen to the talking book chapters, or all the music. If only there was something decent to look at while they’re on… Ace Rimmer, a life in lame isn’t as bad as I’d heard it was, although I would agree that Hattie has maybe forgotten how to ‘Be Holly’. But it was Mr Symes, I believe, who pointed out that it has been twelve years. Then I went back and watched the first couple of episodes with commentary. Always funny. Then my stomach called at half past three, and I went and did myself some spaghetti, with pieces of bacon in a cheese and bacon sauce, all made by mine own fair hand. Well, the sauce was a mix, but I added the milk. Once I’ve done down here (in the IT lab), I’ll be going back to my room, and watching the rest of the commentary episodes. And trying to crack that bloody egg!… I didn’t get that degree.
I tend to listen to podcasts when I’m out, or doing something menial. Are the commentaries at the start of the ‘cast, or spread out a bit? They occur in random pockets.
The TOS DVD news originally said that the red, blue and green covers were planned to repeat after series III, which just seemed disappointing. I don’t think they announced a change until the IV cover was revealed (unless it was known on forums), along with the admission that a Blue Midget cover for V would have been dumb.
Good ‘cast! I swear that every time I start actively thinking about how long it’s been since the last DwarfCast, a new one drops the same week. And it’s very swish to be able to reference a TOS article, and then link to TUA in the show notes. Something this made me think about – Danny John-Jules’s initially planned cleaner character in Dimension Jump was confirmed to be a slob as well, right, independent of him being a cleaner? Because without that context, Cappsy saying that a janitor character played by Danny would surely be a retread of the filthy, alcoholic, badly groomed and suicidally depressed Polymorph Cat could be construed as a touch classist. I tend to listen to podcasts when I’m out, or doing something menial. Are the commentaries at the start of the ‘cast, or spread out a bit? The key detail is that the first one doesn’t start until 1h 18m or so. But if you’re a true G&Ter you should have digitized versions of all the Red Dwarf DVD special features on your phone or tablet (separate from whatever device you plan to listen to the podcast on), ready to whip out and sync up with a commentary at a moment’s notice wherever you are. The TOS DVD news originally said that the red, blue and green covers were planned to repeat after series III, which just seemed disappointing. I don’t think they announced a change until the IV cover was revealed (unless it was known on forums), along with the admission that a Blue Midget cover for V would have been dumb. An especially bad idea, as we would have got 3 red and 3 blue, but only 2 green! (And if they only repeated once it would have just been uneven in a different way.) I assume they changed course when the GNP legal department informed them that to do so would be a crime against DVD shelves.
An especially bad idea, as we would have got 3 red and 3 blue, but only 2 green! (And if they only repeated once it would have just been uneven in a different way.) I assume they changed course when the GNP legal department informed them that to do so would be a crime against DVD shelves. Yep, it was going to be RBGRBGRB. Ellard making the case that the red cover would be fitting for the series where they find Red Dwarf again (right at the very end) and the Blue Midget cover fitting for the series with the iconic dance scene failed to convince.
Lister, Rimmer and Kryten fantasising ideal mates who are basically female versions of themselves is a bit cartoony, in that Mickey & Minnie / Milhouse’s parents way.
I always forget that the Suzanne Rhatigan Camille is meant to be Kochanski-like. Because it’s not mentioned in the episode itself, only in her credit. I just thought she was meant to be a Lister-like woman, in line with the other Camille guises. Why would Camille turn into people who were meant to be surface level attractive for everyone else, but for Lister turn into someone he had a deeper connection with? It kind of confuses the point of Kryten only falling in genuine love with her once she reveals her true self. It’s also inconsistent with the Francesca Folan Camille being “Hologram Camille” and not “Janine Camille”.
Watched the documentary after listening to this and I love that whole discussion about Danny’s role in Ace’s dimension. It does seem like he’s at pains to point out that he’d have been fine with the slovenly cleaner character. Interesting that he played a cleaner in the Tongue Tied video a couple of years later. That trailer spoils the Cat meeting Camille gag. Never been that keen on the IV cover design. I remember seeing this early version and then thinking the silver foil logo didn’t look as good on the one we got.
I always forget that the Suzanne Rhatigan Camille is meant to be Kochanski-like. Because it’s not mentioned in the episode itself, only in her credit. I just thought she was meant to be a Lister-like woman, in line with the other Camille guises. Why would Camille turn into people who were meant to be surface level attractive for everyone else, but for Lister turn into someone he had a deeper connection with? It kind of confuses the point of Kryten only falling in genuine love with her once she reveals her true self. It’s also inconsistent with the Francesca Folan Camille being “Hologram Camille” and not “Janine Camille”. Yeah I don’t think she’s meant to be Kochanski in anyway, it’s just the name they attached to the character as a bit of a short hand for filming so appears in the credits Otherwise Lister would have reacted very differently
The original idea was that Camille would appear to Lister as the actual Kochanski but then they realised this’d make no sense since Lister would immediately realise something was wrong, so they changed it to someone who was meant to strongly resemble Kochanski, and the original scenes were done with Tracy Brabin (now Mayor of West Yorkshire), who bore a stronger resemblance to Clare Grogan. The scenes were then reshot due to poor quality with Suzanne Rhatigan taking over (and the original versions don’t appear on the DVD because Brabin refused permission). The credit “Kochanski Camille” is kept even though it makes very little sense by this point, especially after dialogue expressly linking Kochanski and the appearance of Camille to Lister was cut.
Cappsy saying that a janitor character played by Danny would surely be a retread of the filthy, alcoholic, badly groomed and suicidally depressed Polymorph Cat could be construed as a touch classist. This is because it’s the exact correlation the writers made, so it was clear what type of character they were originally going for. Some of my best friends are cleaners.
I figured that was probably the case! I just forgot that detail, so was a bit taken aback in the moment. So really it was Rob and Doug who were being classist. They got away with it because the racism distracted from it. The original idea was that Camille would appear to Lister as the actual Kochanski but then they realised this’d make no sense since Lister would immediately realise something was wrong, so they changed it to someone who was meant to strongly resemble Kochanski, and the original scenes were done with Tracy Brabin (now Mayor of West Yorkshire), who bore a stronger resemblance to Clare Grogan. The scenes were then reshot due to poor quality with Suzanne Rhatigan taking over (and the original versions don’t appear on the DVD because Brabin refused permission). The credit “Kochanski Camille” is kept even though it makes very little sense by this point, especially after dialogue expressly linking Kochanski and the appearance of Camille to Lister was cut. OK, very interesting! They should have just changed the credit, but I guess calling her “Human Camille” would have sounded too cold, and “Lister Camille” would have sounded too weird. The main takeaway from all this is that I’m surprisingly crap at remembering behind the scenes trivia.
Re: noisy birds, I was awoken the other day by an even rowdier group of crows, jackdaws and magpies. That clip definitely sounds realistic. Lovely stuff, as usual!
I always thought it was “I’ve got a boom in my ass,” but now I’m not sure, and “eye” would be more anatomically correct. Maybe something for Rob Grant to clear up in the next interview?
I found this genuinely surprising listening to the commentary. I’ve always heard eye, and it almost hits him… in the eye. More warm nostalgia listening to highlighted bits of the cast commentaries. It’s funny how I always naively assumed back then that the stories they told were pretty verbatim (artistic exagerration of ‘knocking nails in with foreheads’ aside), but it’s interesting to hear your musings on how they probably evolved over time with retelling, embellished bits perhaps becoming ‘reality’ as time’s gone by.
The most stunning revelation for me is finding out that Red Dwarf superfan Cappsy was at the University of Teesside in 2004, at the exact same time as Red Dwarf superfan Captain Bollocks was at the University of Teesside… and we’ve never met! I wonder if we ever crossed paths? I suppose their exists an alternative timeline in which we did meet, and it was actually me who got the first review of IV online… but considering I thought about doing a comparison article between the iPlayer and UKTV thumbnails and still haven’t written the first word of it, but successfully managed to nudge Ian into whipping one up a better one in a couple of days, probably not. — On the subject of cast commentaries, they were always one of my favourite things about the DVDs, to the point that I was a bit disappointed when X got a documentary in lieu of commentaries. In retrospect, I think it’s because my student years were spent watching RD/Simpsons/Futurama DVDs over and over, commentaries and all, and they were always something that gave me an excuse to re-watch all the episodes without having to pay much attention, just conversational background noise to fall asleep to. I also think my X disappointment was partly due to those memories I had, rather than the actual quality of their content, because I hadn’t actually listened to any of them them in 15+ years. The, last Christmas, during a prolonged bout of being massively depressed, I put the commentaries on as a sort of comforter and… yeah, there’s not much to them, is there? A lot of matey banter that quickly gets tiresome, too many people talking over, and nobody with much of interest to be said, at last that isn’t being told in a much better, fairer and more detailed format elsewhere. Oh well. I’m still glad they exist, even if full commentaries from Doug and Ed would have been better. — Obviously it’s impossible to cut him out of the episode, but if they were making this DVD now, do you think the deleted scenes with Clayton Mark would get dropped? Would you be disappointed about it if you knew those bits existed and you weren’t getting to see them since it forms part of a wider picture of behind-the-scenes material, or in a Chris Barrie-esque moment of insane wokery, would you fully embrace the erasure of this horrible, grubby little cunt?
Edit: I pay so little attention to these things that I’ve only just noticed the irony in having an avatar of Elvis and Rimmer. It’s such a wonderfully framed shot, too, and now I just feel sad.
I was watching an episode of Futurama the other day where a “that’s lame” “it’s pronounced ‘lamé'” joke was made, and I immediately thought of the feature on the series IV DVD.
The most stunning revelation for me is finding out that Red Dwarf superfan Cappsy was at the University of Teesside in 2004, at the exact same time as Red Dwarf superfan Captain Bollocks was at the University of Teesside… and we’ve never met! I wonder if we ever crossed paths? Blimey! I started in September 2004 and graduated in 2008, doing web development. If any of those match we may well have met in some way!
Obviously it’s impossible to cut him out of the episode, but if they were making this DVD now, do you think the deleted scenes with Clayton Mark would get dropped? Would you be disappointed about it if you knew those bits existed and you weren’t getting to see them since it forms part of a wider picture of behind-the-scenes material, or in a Chris Barrie-esque moment of insane wokery, would you fully embrace the erasure of this horrible, grubby little cunt? I’d want them to be included, and I think they would be. It’s not the same as (for example) the Doctor Who Collection editing A Fix With Sontarans to remove Jimmy Savile – in that case, it’s material featuring a wrongun that was recorded while the abuse was going on, in the exact place it was going on, and when people could/should have stopped it. So that’s much more sensitive than a guest appearance by someone who transpired to be a wrongun some thirty years later, whose abuse took place somewhere and somewhen else entirely. I think the only thing that would be different would be the tone of his section of the documentary, they’d more likely skim over Elvis and just talk about him as part of the ensemble, if at all, rather than singling him out as the breakout star that he undoubtedly and now-unfortunately is.
I have a completely different view of the commentaries, I really enjoyed them when the DVDs came out. In fact – and I’m slightly embarrassed by this now given how much everyone dislikes them – I ripped them all into MP3 files and would listen to them just basically as podcasts*. * Though I know the episodes inside out enough to not need to SEE the visuals to be able to see the visuals
I enjoyed the 1 – VII commentaries on release, and on second listen, but after I’ve found them increasingly tiresome when I’ve attempted to listen. VIII was unlistenable from the start, of course.
I enjoyed the 1 – VII commentaries on release, and on second listen, but after I’ve found them increasingly tiresome when I’ve attempted to listen. VIII was unlistenable from the start, of course. Yes, as a teenager I re-watched the I-VI commentaries ad nauseum (the fun certainly started to wane with VII, in line with the cast’s interest audibly flagging), but I think I only bothered once with VIII. Probably in part due to my being a more discerning 19 year old by 2006, partly because there’s what, fucking eight of them gabbling over each other? It was bad enough with five of them on III and IV when it felt like Hattie could hardly get a word in. The only thing I can recall off the top of my head is Norman getting annoyed at Chloe obsessing over her hair.
Great Dwarfcast as ever. Regarding the comment on the Phantom Menace trailer parody, I think it’s easy to forget how massive that trailer was. It was everywhere. Multiple different movies and TV shows did their own parodies of just that trailer, before the movie even came out – South Park did a skit on it, so did Spaced – so I don’t think it was a weirdly obscure thing to refer to.
