Almost XIII news

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  • #241661

    International Debris

    Doug just tweeted this:

    Scientists have spotted repeating radio signals 1.5 billion light years into deep space directed at Earth. According to SETEE the signal is in an algorithmic rhythmic communication system which appears to translate as: ‘13 – when? 13 -when? Don’t make us invade.’ #RedDwarf.

    https://twitter.com/DougRDNaylor/status/1083077054378201090

    #241692

    Dave

    I don’t get it.

    #241695

    Jonsmad

    It’s just a joke about a current news story. There is a scientific published document about a fast radio burst from deep space which is rare and causes debate about what is causing the signal whether it’s a star under unique conditions or Aliens!!

    #241702

    Dave

    Oh, I thought Doug had made the whole thing up and it was a complicated joke.

    #242114

    PFMC84

    I thought it was some hidden message among the capitals type of tweet. Or maybe it is and no-one has cracked the code yet.

    #242115

    quinn_drummer

    SESETEEDRD – what could it mean … what does any of this mean. This forum is covered in complete and utter, nonsense jibberish

    #242116

    Dave

    I think it’s something to do with the Daleks as Doug is hiding behind the SETEE.

    #242117

    Warbofrog

    Hopefully SETI/setee isn’t a tease of the standard of joke we can expect in XIII.

    #242118

    Dave

    After the MILFs joke in XII it would still represent an improvement.

    #242119

    Darrell

    I honestly would advise anybody to not get your hopes up about a XIII. The commission/production/distribution line of XIII is defunct – Dave has completely different commissioners, Kerry Waddell is no longer at Baby Cow, Henry Normal is no longer at Baby Cow, and Dave are much more concerned with Taskmaster, having not mentioned Red Dwarf in a press release for some time now and with their merch store about to close. XII got a much softer marketing push, it’s not on the radar of the execs that are there now. They dropped the ball and lost momentum – in terms of chance of a new series we’re about where we were 15 years ago all over again. I’d love to see it happen and it’s not impossible, but I think we’re running on magic beans now. A tour via Phil McIntyre Promotions is still possible, but I’d bet actual money against it returning to TV and I think Doug’s being slightly cruel teasing something which to all intents and purposes may never exist. Hope I’m wrong, don’t think I am.

    #242120

    Dave

    The more I think about it, the more I feel like I’m actually not that fussed about a new series.

    I think there’s been some good stuff in XI and XII but I think Skipper was a nice send-off for the show and I wouldn’t be upset if we didn’t see anything further.

    A live show would be lots of fun and would make for a good celebration of the series, and I’d love to see another book at some point – and yes, I’d obviously look forward to a Series XIII if it was announced.

    But I don’t feel the need for closure or correction in the same way as in the aftermath of series VIII.

    #242121

    Warbofrog

    Same as Dave. The last half of XII made for the strongest ending since VI, and with all those nostalgic callbacks it would work nicely at the end of the legacy. They had a good run.

    #242122

    NoFro

    Well, I still want to see XIII.

    #242123

    Darrell

    I also agree that XII will have been a really nice thing to have gone out on. Four belters out of six, that’s astonishing.

    #242154

    Dax101

    In one way i wanna see the show keep going. and in another i am kinda fed up of being disappointed by the new shows… so I’m a bit split on whether I’m that interested in a new series.

    Either way Doug will probably find a way to get a new red dwarf off the ground.

    #242157

    International Debris

    Given the amount of talk we’ve had about the series so far, I would be surprised if we don’t get a XIII. For all the focus on Taskmaster, RD has still been an enormous success for the channel, and I can’t imagine them turning it down.

    At the same time, if there is less interest, it might take something like ‘the last ever series!’ or something for it to get commissioned. A lot of people would tune in to see the show’s send off.

    #242158

    Dave

    I wonder if a format like BTE is a possibility, if they finally wanted to do ‘Earth’ properly.

    #242159

    Darrell

    I get the feeling that the existence and timing of the unexpected third series of Zapped, airing last year in the slot that XI and XII had, is somehow meaningful here.

    #242160

    MANI506

    The only reason I want a XIII is because of Richard and Doug discussing extra rehearsal time in the XII doc. Otherwise I would be very happy if what we have is what we have. I know the G & T team and community would have plenty to discuss whatever happens. I am more hopeful for more Dwarfcasts than a new series.

    #242162

    cwickham

    Threat level: Robert Llewellyn has taken “soon to be in Red Dwarf XIII” out of his Twitter bio

    #242163

    bloodteller

    I don’t think I’d mind if there wasn’t an XIII. XI/XII were really inconsistent in terms of quality, and if we’re going to get an XIII with another episode as dreadful as Timewave, or as poorly-structured as Can Of Worms, then maybe it’s better to just leave it as it is. For all the problems I have with Skipper, it does work well enough as a final episode of the show, although arguably BtE and The Beginning were much, much better finales. Red Dwarf doesn’t need to go on forever, and I think 29 years is a pretty good run

    #242165

    Stephen Abootman

    Yup, if there’s going to be 2 poor episodes out of 12 probably best not to bother.

    #242167

    MANI506

    I remember some comedy writer or other say that in a sitcom series two episodes will be great, two will be average and two will be below average. I think you could apply that to most sitcoms and I think every Red Dwarf series (VII, VIII and BTE excluded) could be broken down this way. There was more than enough great stuff in XI and XII to justify XIII imo although I’m starting to think that Twentica may have been best of all straight out of the gate.

    #242168

    bloodteller

    >I think every Red Dwarf series could be broken down this way

    I don’t know, I think almost all of I-V’s episodes are great, and 4/6 of VI’s are great. The two great/two average/two below average system doesn’t really work for me

    #242169

    Katydid

    I lost hope approximately when the biggest DJ ever went by without a peep about 13. Remember when it seemed very possible that we’d get not just a 13 but a 14? And then here we are almost convinced a 13 won’t ever happen. What is about this show where it can be so fucking popular and yet nobody ever wants to give it any money?

    #242171

    Warbofrog

    It was Ben Elton, when talking about Blackadder 2-4 specifically and sitcoms generally.

    #242173

    Warbofrog

    ^ No it wasn’t, it was Richard Curtis.

    #242174

    Katydid

    It’s just frustrating as anything really wanting to have more of the Series XI/XII incarnation of Red Dwarf but only having 12 episodes, one of which is Timewave. As much as I loved Series X when it was the newest series, it’s just felt largely underwhelming in comparison to Series XI and XII since they came along. And Back to Earth of course isn’t something you’d just throw on as an episode of Red Dwarf to rewatch.

    Even after a few years, Series XI and XII still have that newness to them. I don’t yet feel like with the original run of the show that I’ve seen it many times recently even when it’s been a while. There’s still a novelty to seeing these episodes that I haven’t been watching for more than a year or two. Even Series X dates back 6 years, and Back to Earth is literally coming up on its 10th anniversary.

    I just want to keep enjoying new episodes of this show now that it can be consistently as enjoyable to me as the average classic episode. And I really can’t help but feel like it was Series X’s clusterfuck of a production that put us in the position we are now. X could have been as good as XI, _and_ XI could have come in like 2014 instead of 2016. If Series XI and XII had been shot in 2013 we’d almost definitely be waiting on Series XIV right now, or maybe even be coming off the back of its airing.

    Red Dwarf had so much room to get new episodes made in the past decade that it couldn’t take advantage of because it was busy trying to get money or working out whatever stupid insane problems the previous production put up with. I personally would be infuriated if we didn’t get Series XIII after we came off the back of Series XII seeing it as a certainty, with even a Series XIV teased as likely by Doug.

    And of course, I like Series XI and XII a lot more than most of you seem to. Series XI is one of my favorite series of the entire show, and the back half of XII is absolutely fantastic. I can’t say I feel satisfied with the show ending at Skipper when it’s only just finally regained its ability to produce such quality episodes.

    #242177

    Dax101

    For me Dave era Dwarf just suffers from unnecessarily over stuffed plots, over use of call backs and while there are funny moments, there are also bits of comedy that either go on too long, just don’t work that well or just seem more sketch show silly then funny.

    Am also not fond of the direction Doug went with the Cat in the last 2 series. I dunno why Doug made him into an insecure idiotic teenager whose scared that his school chums will find out he is a virgin or needs glasses.

    Even Skipper which is the highlight of 11 and 12 for me has some issues that I feel could have been fixed very easily.

    So yeah I am abit nervous what Doug would do with a series 13

    #242180

    bloodteller

    >Even Skipper which is the highlight of 11 and 12 for me has some issues that I feel could have been fixed very easily.

    Yeah, agreed. It’s one of the better ones out of XI/XII, but I still think it has some problems here and there, especially towards the end of the episode.

    I think maybe an XIII would be better than XI/XII because Doug would only have to write/direct 6 shows rather than 12, so shit like Timewave wouldn’t seep through the cracks, but even so… I don’t know. Out of the whole Dave era, the only one that actually FEELS like Red Dwarf to me is BtE. Which I know sounds weird given that the content of the story is nothing like Red Dwarf, but it works for me in a way that X-XII just doesn’t. Watching X-XII for me is like watching sort of, a slightly off-brand version of Red Dwarf, it doesn’t feel like I’m watching the same show as I-BtE.

    I don’t know, I’d have to wait until a Series XIII was actually made until I could pass judgement on it. One one hand, it could be an entire Series of stuff as good as Give & Take, but on the other hand it could open up another Can Of Worms, which would be rubbish. I think an XIII has the potential to be good though, that’s for sure. Doug can write really good Dwarf sometimes

    #242195

    Ben Saunders

    Everybody knows that if there’s even the slightest chance that one sixth of your work might be a little sketchy you should just not bother at all, right?

    #242213

    Katydid

    Frankly, just from my own writing experience, I think it’s pretty astounding that we got as many good episodes as we have from Doug alone when the show used to be a joint effort. Trying to fill in for your co-writer’s brain is a bitch, doubly so because you’re missing the voice that tells you when something isn’t working or suggests an idea you’d never have thought of.

    #242214

    International Debris

    For me, the last three episodes of XII were where Dave Dwarf began to forge its own identity. Despite all three episodes having heavy (and, in places, unnecessary) call-backs, they don’t feel like they could be so easily called “a mix of II and IV” or whatever, in the way that X, XI and earlier XII episodes do. I’m hoping Doug can carry this on for at least a series.

    #242215

    Dax101

    I feel the new shows could be far better than it actually are, because i have seen the show be better in the early days so i know its possible. its just the balance for the new shows is all over the place and i think it doesn’t help that Doug has taken full creative control over everything.

    I think what made alot of the early best episodes work would be lost if they were made today because Doug wants to throw in so many ideas and probably add an extra bit of edge to the episodes, as well as really pushing the humour to be louder and a bit sketchy.

    I think if Dimension Jump was made today it wouldn’t be a simple character piece story about a parallel rimmer from another dimension helping the crew get off a water planet. it would probably still be the water planet stuff but there would be an extra threat at the end like some villains or another sci-fi issue that needs to be fixed to top off the episode, and it would have Rimmer desperately trying to upstage Ace and making himself look silly multiple times, and then it would probably end with Rimmer saving the day and getting some earned respect from Ace while Rimmer looks like he is about to give some mutual respect back… but then just is a cocky git about it (enter audience applause)

    Basically it would be dimension jump, but with an extra 7-10 minutes, then trimmed down the whole thing to 28-29 minutes.

    #242224

    Darrell

    Dax, your capacity to make things up and then get genuinely annoyed about them never ceases to amaze me.

    #242226

    PFMC84

    Maybe UKTV will pass on XIII and Doug can take it to the BBC who could give it a 6 or 8 episode series to finish the show for good. Rob could even come back for it. It started and ended on BBC 2. How fitting.

    What? After Brexit, anything can happen.

    #242577

    flanl3

    Let’s get Rob Grant writing his own Red Dwarf IX.

    #242673

    Taiwan Tony

    Darrell, you’re back out of retirement. What brought you back?

    #242731

    Darrell

    Apathy for my own apathy.

    #242757

    Dave

    Wasn’t that a Metallica album?

    #242950

    Katydid

    So when does Doug announce that sales of the I-VIII Blu-ray collection (and resulting sales of Dave era series) have not only guaranteed Series XIII, but provided enough extra funding to not only massively increase per-episode production values but allow for 8 episodes, giving you just that much more show without over-stretching Doug?

    It could happen.

    I mean it won’t, but it’s technically possible.

    #242999

    NoFro

    Den Of Geek had me going for a second there with their latest Dwarf article.

    “With more Red Dwarf on the way…”

    #243007

    quinn_drummer

    Andrew followed that up by saying the fact he hasn’t had a call to work on XIII probably means that it isn’t imminent

    #243016

    Jimboid

    Odd that DoG keeps suggesting that XIII is a done deal.

    Brimming over with wrongability.

    #243312

    NoFro

    Seb has updated the TOS FAQs this past week but is this XIII answer new/updated?

    “Following the success of the most recent series on Dave, new episodes of Red Dwarf are something that all parties have a keen interest in making happen. As always with the world of TV commissioning and production, however, various things have to be worked out and worked through in order to bring it to the screen.”

    With the update in mind, it’s interesting that the official response still indicates that all parties want to make XIII happen.

    I am very curious as to what all these issues could be. It seemed that XI/XII had much smoother productions than X and came in at a lower cost per episode.

    #243315

    Pete Part Three

    So when are tickets available?

    #243350

    Katydid

    Den of Geek has been insisting Series XIII has been officially commissioned basically since Series XII finished airing. Sometimes the actual article admits the headline is straight-up lying and actually spells out the situation as it is, but it’s not like anyone pays attention to that part and they know it.

    #243364

    SoundableObject

    >So when are tickets available?

    I think the person to ask is Robert Llewellyn. Best thing to do is tweet him.

    #243368

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    the delay is due to finalizing things with rob and a new deal with netflix.

    #243369

    bloodteller

    Netflix should work out some new deals where they actually put stuff people would want to watch on their platform. The only decent thing I could find on there was Red Dwarf, and I’ve already seen that

    Also they have Ghostbusters 2 but not the first one??

    #243937

    Dave
    #243938

    Darrell

    Ah, this will be why every factual CBeebies show lately seems to be made in the house style of Discovery Kids.

    #243939

    GlenTokyo

    Dave generally seems to be moving away from “scripted” comedy, and going for things scripted to appear that they don’t have a script. Taskmaster was a massive success and now it seems like everyone that’s ever been on Taskmaster has been given a show on Dave. Hypothetical (?) being the latest with Josh Widdicombe (ugh) and James Acaster. Probably costs about 20 quid outside of talent and has a broad appeal with the ‘Would I Lie To You, ‘Mock the Week’ and ‘Taskmaster’ crowd, compared to Red Dwarf which employs people like The Model Unit and Millennium Effects and doesn’t have the mass market appeal, though it is very popular.

    Financially it’s no surprise it’s yet to return. I’d love it to go somewhere else to be honest, Dave’s great and all but I feel like it forces Dwarf to be something slightly different because it’s ‘the comedy channel’. The dream would be Netflix but I can’t see it.

    #243942

    quinn_drummer

    Panel shows will always be cheap to make. And you can come up with a million and one different formats that are really just vehicles for comedians to be funny.

    I would largely agree with what your saying about Dave spending its money there as its cheaper, but Red Dwarf has constantly been the highest ratings show on Dave. Taskmaster has come close, only to be surpassed by Red Dwarf again.

    And for how Doug etc tells it, they’re always making Red Dwarf on a shoe string. It might be more than a panel show, but I wouldn’t mind betting it isn’t that much more. Especially when they only have to make 6 episodes a year for it, production is just a couple of months etc, and Taskmaster films and broadcasts 16 in a year, pretty much making it all year round at this point.

    Red Dwarf also has the ability to generate DVD sales and such, which panel shows don’t really do. They just get repeated ad infinitum on Dave. Which is something Dave could do more with the Red Dwarf it owns if it wanted to, the way it used to with classic Dwarf back in the day which lead it to making the damn show in the first place.

    #243944

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    I think Taskmaster is ahead of Dwarf now, ratings-wise, isn’t it?

    #243946

    PFMC84

    I said it before, but I’ll say it again, it would be interesting if Red Dwarf actually ended up back on BBC 2.

    It’s not as if BBC 2 couldn’t use some decent programming…

    #243949

    NoFro

    Red Dwarf back on BBC Two is hardly the most far fetched thing. The BBC have been known to dust off some old comedy shows and bring them back and Dwarf remains one of their most popular. As much as I appreciate all that Dave has done for Dwarf, new Dwarf would certainly get a viewing figures bump if it were to be shown on the BBC rather than Dave.

    #243951

    GlenTokyo

    Maybe when Doctor Who gets put on hiatus/cancelled they’ll re-revive Dwarf and give Doug all the budget.

    Doug will then do a series with an improved budget that looks nice and then stop making it so he can work on the movie again.

    In 2030 digital channel Phil will commission a new special with all the cast being digitally de-aged.

    #243952

    SoundableObject

    >I think Taskmaster is ahead of Dwarf now, ratings-wise, isn’t it?

    I’d seen this mentioned before and just accepted it but now I’ve had a look at the BARB.

    All 7-day viewing:

    Cured: 1.2m
    Taskmaster S05E05: 0.635m

    Siliconia: 1.179m
    Taskmaster S05E06: 0.652m

    Timewave: 1.189m
    Taskmaster S05E07: 0.593m

    Mechocracy: 0.973m
    Taskmaster S05E08: 0.875m (the finale)

    M-Corp: 0.901m
    Skipper: 0.846m

    Red Dwarf also does a little better in 28-day viewing and repeats (marginal but noticeable).

    Taskmaster Series 6 and 7 have upped a little on that. A few of the episodes go above 1m in 7-day viewing:
    Taskmaster S06E01: 1.238m
    Taskmaster S06E10: 1.109m
    Taskmaster S07E01: 1.131m

    I’d say they are roughly at the same level of success now. Which is great as they are both two of the best shows on TV.

    #243953

    Darrell

    Taskmaster is easy and quick to make too. Alex Horne and Tim Key write it, they do all the task inserts in mini blocks with a skeleton crew, edit the packages, shoot the live nights very close together, cut those and they’ve got ten hours of television which can be ready for TX very soon after the recordings.

    Red Dwarf is a mixture of being genuinely more complicated to make than a regular sitcom and just being a deceptively ordinary sitcom to make that’s terminally prone to having its production overcomplicated by a kamikaze, self-sabotaging showrunner with a chronic resistance to the creative assistance of outsiders bordering on absolute madness and less of an aptitude for writing last minute script pages on the fly than he thinks he has.

    #243954

    Taiwan Tony

    Any figures on how much they cost to make?

    #243955

    Darrell

    Taskmaster is probably deceptively expensive as it has 7 name leads at a time, and Avalon are notorious for playing financial hardball. But then again they don’t need any of their people for anywhere near as long and they get triple the finished screentime as Dwarf gets.

    #243956

    Ben Saunders

    It would be interesting if the BBC were once again interested in the type of audience Red Dwarf used to attract

    #243957

    International Debris

    Even if Taskmaster is more ‘successful’ now, Red Dwarf is still the channel’s second most successful show, and one which really opened up the channel to original programming. It’s the closest to a classic / legacy show the channel has, and I’d be really, really surprised if they turned down the chance for another series.

    #244071

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    My bad on the Taskmaster ratings comparison, I may have just been thinking of overnights.

    #244075

    PFMC84

    Red Dwarf also gave Dave it’s highest ever rating and also holds the record for the most watched TV show on a non-terrestrial UK channel ever.

    #244077

    Darrell

    10 years ago though. Not a lot in real terms but I’d be amazed if there’s a single person at Dave or UKTV now who was there when that happened. And again, that wouldn’t be relevant were it not telly, where everyone wants to come in with a new broom because they’re all paranoid. BBC Two were callously uninterested by VIII’s ratings record what, 7 years later?

    #246736

    Stephen Abootman

    Chris has done a news update on his site and there’s no reference to the small rouge one whatsoever. More on this story as it develops.

    #247128

    Darrell

    The full BBC Studios takeover of UKTV has gone ahead. Though awful news for television (it’s pretty much the final push for the BBC’s now irreversible journey of going fully privatised) it’s theoretically good news for Red Dwarf as it takes one finger out of the pie. If Worldwide judge Red Dwarf to be beneficially profitable out of the box then in theory there’s not a lot in the way of them commissioning more. In reality though there’s Doug Naylor and his being afflicted with an ancient curse which turns every advantage into a problem.

    #247217

    RealBigOleDummy

    Well, personally I’ve given up all hope for a series XIII. I’m across the pond and so slightly more out of
    the loop than most of you, but I have heard not a single word that gave me hope for more episodes.
    Reading through these comments hasn’t brightened my outlook either to be honest. What with the
    BBC/Dave buyout/take over news (of which I’ve been entirely unaware) and the complete absence of
    even a peep from Mr. John-Jules (only dwarfer I follow on Twitter) my original optimism is now
    completely gone. Very very sad about that but….. what can you do? I still have all my DVD’s of the show and actually watched some of series 1 again this morning so the Boys from the Dwarf will always be making me laugh regardless. To me its all the more sad because I thought XI and XII were very good entries in the canon. Hell, I even think Timewave is better than most seem to think. (to me the absolute worst part of that episode involved the damn costumes! The guest star was brilliant imho)

    Anyway, while you British MAY have an opportunity for some kind of “live show” involving the Dwarf and its crew, its completely out of the question for me and the rest of its American fans. So, in the last few months after lurking here to look for any good news, I have finally and completely given up even a shred of hope. Red Dwarf will never completely die, the shows we have are just too damn good for that to happen but as far as any new stuff goes……….. I’ve already paid my respects and cherish the memories.

    #247262

    Darrell

    I kind of agree, but look at the first third of 2009. Death of hope to televised Red Dwarf within the space of about ten weeks.

    #247267

    Pete Part Three

    Red Dwarf XII aired less than two years ago. A sense of perspective wouldn’t go amiss.

    #247270

    Darrell

    To be fair it was filmed over three years ago, and announced four years ago, two and a half years before it aired. It *is* very much a past tense thing and all momentum is definitely gone. That’s not a defeatist attitude, it’s just factual observation. TV might have got to a point recently where popular shows may not necessary air new series annually anymore, but they’re certainly not dormant for FOUR YEARS.

    It’s also worth noting that we are now as far away from the XI/XII announcement as that was from the X announcement. If we’re heading into yet another potential announcement as speculated, I feel like the tour – which pre-dates XI as a project – is more likely. And perhaps more vital as a next step than ‘they’re back, again, again, again, again!’

    It certainly shouldn’t be viewed as negativity or hyperbole for someone to agree that XIII is starting to stretch credibility as a plausible going concern. Because it obviously is, particularly in light of GNP’s consistently lax attitude towards organisational competency of late. To *believe*, not hope, otherwise might be borderline masochism.

    #247318

    Pete Part Three

    I’m dubious on the importance of “momentum”, especially in UK Telly, where incredibly well-received shows regularly take long gaps. British TV has *never* got to the point where new series have had to air annually. That’s a US thing, and more and more of them are taking extended breaks.

    When well-loved shows return, they will find their audience. Let’s use, um, Red Dwarf as an example. It was dormant for 10 years.

    It’s produced just 12 series in 31 years, so I wouldn’t be tapping my watch and tutting. I seriously doubt we’ve seen the last of it on telly.

    #247319

    Darrell

    During the 10 year hiatus, Red Dwarf was nurtured very well – in addition to the movie hype there were five years of high profile DVD releases with huge sales and high profiles. It was only really 2001 and 2008 where the brand wasn’t being aggressively pushed in some way, and they were mostly down to the movie stalling and merch fatigue, legitimate post-activity rests. When current TV shows take 9 or 18 months out, they’re still making sure all their plates are spinning. Even Fawlty Towers had high profile repeats, books and records in its gap.

    Compare that to 2018, the brand-vital thirtieth anniversary year – where literally nothing happened at all. All that happened in 2017 was that XII aired and the DVD appeared in shops – it was all completed and signed off the year before. It wasn’t like 2018 was a rest year, because they’d technically already had one they could have strategically utilised. Regardless of anything that was happening behind the scenes, that’s a definite slipup in brand momentum, and one worryingly complacent about the ever-present nature of an aging fanbase. I don’t think Red Dwarf has infinite stamina, nor infinite luck, nor infinite charity from its fans, and it’s perhaps over-reliant on the continued existence of all three.

    Since XII, nothing has happened. Nothing. I’m not counting the box set because its belated release was low-key to an almost homeopathic degree and even the most recent of its contents was 11 years old, and so that’s an incredibly long period of dormancy considering when XII would have been completed and picture-locked. We’re already back to the main news articles for any month being ‘Norman Lovett to headline anti-dandruff benefit gig in Colchester’ and ‘this week’s Radio Times features Red Dwarf at number 17 in its list of Top 20 Sci-Fi Sitcoms That Used To Be On BBC Two’. That’s not what happens when you’re waiting to go into pre-production on your next series. Your online shop doesn’t usually shut either.

    #247346

    International Debris

    It’s hard not to feel deflated at the absurdly long gap we’re well into at the minute, but I don’t actually see anything that suggests it’s not going to happen. If Doug and the cast are up for it, there’s no way Dave are going to turn it down (as I said a couple of months ago, it’s one of their two most successful shows).
    If anything, the gap is making it more likely that the next series (or two) will be the last. If this gap is to be expected, then Rob will be into his 70s if another block comes along after XIII. So we could be on for a final series next. But I’m still confident we’ll get more, whatever happens.

    #247347

    Dave

    I think there’s a danger of getting a bit too worked-up over all of this. All indications have been that Doug is keen to make XIII happen and that the cast seem to be open to more, it just seems to be a case of things having to align internally to make it happen – and with all the recent upheaval at Dave it probably hasn’t been easy to get it to that stage yet.

    It’s easy to sit back and complain that all the people involved in Red Dwarf aren’t doing anything to make a new series happen, but do we really think that’s true? Let’s give them some credit and assume that they are actually doing what they can, within the limitations that they’re working within, and we’ll just have to wait and see.

    I can see how some fans would be disappointed by the quietness of the last year or two, but maybe we should be mindful that there’s probably more going on than we have knowledge of.

    Personally, I feel less angry that there’s no confirmation of Series XIII and more grateful that we got Dave-era Red Dwarf at all. I’ve enjoyed the last few series, but as I said upthread, I won’t be desperately sad if there isn’t any more.

    A lot of ageing franchises get bogged down by endless fan moaning and entitlement, let’s not let it happen to Red Dwarf.

    #247348

    Dax101

    Doug seems incredibly motivated to get new Red Dwarf out there, so either way i think there will be new Red Dwarf at some point, even if Doug has to turn a clip show budget into another 3 part special.

    But that said i don’t even think Doug has given up on the movie idea yet.

    #247349

    Shoes Have Soles

    Personally I would be quite surprised if we get another Series. In 20 years Doug has managed one special and one 6 series (which nearly fell apart when making it) without Baby Cow helping out.

    Visionary genius writer and all round good bloke? Yes. Realistic and efficient tv producer? Probably not.

    I am in the camp of being very grateful of the post Dave tv shows and treated those as a hugely welcome bonus to one of my favourite tv shows ever. But everything has its time and I think RD might well have past it. Sorry.

    #247352

    Darrell

    To be fair, I’m neither moaning here not acting in an entitled way, and I have already said in this thread that I’d be perfectly happy with XII and Skipper as an endpoint. I also fully acknowledged that more may have been going on behind the scenes than it appears. But the *brand* has definitely been neglected and all the clues are there that XIII is unlikely to happen, which I went through one by one. That’s all I said!

    The whole Dave era has been a lovely, impossible extra life for Red Dwarf. But that *was* our bonus go, our flash of lightning, our get-out-of-jail-free card. We cashed it in and spent it already.

    #247353

    Ben Saunders

    “I’m not counting the box set” is fucking absurd, it’s a thing that happened and it was a fairly big undertaking regardless of if you liked it or not, when you define your own arbitrary rules of what “counts” and what doesn’t your whole argument falls apart. The sense of entitlement certain people seem to have about -demanding- that Series XIII be made NOW is astonishing to see, really. Why don’t you go tweet Doug to just try harder at getting it made? I’m sure he would appreciate the advice.

    #247355

    Dax101

    Doug spent 6-7 years trying to get a movie off the ground. He won’t give up that easy when it comes to getting new Red Dwarf off the ground.

    Personally i don’t know whether i want a new series. i wasn’t that impressed by most of the Dave era and it gets depressing the more the show goes on and the more the show becomes a shadow of its glory days.

    Even a stage show which Doug also wants to do i feel doesn’t suit the shows format. especially the idea of it being a new story but with old scenes redone by the cast. But Doug seems to want to get that off the ground.

    #247356

    Ben Saunders

    Why so defeatist about it? It’ll either happen or it won’t, go watch something else in the meantime

    #247357

    Stephen Abootman

    “Why so defeatist about it?”

    Every Dax post comes with 2 free scoops of negativity.

    #247358

    Dax101

    Hey i pretty much said i was confident Doug would make more Red Dwarf. id say that could be considered positive. but i ain’t gonna lie about how i feel about it ;p

    My 2 scoops of negativity will come with chocolate syrup if there is any syrup to use ;p

    #247364

    Darrell

    Ben, read my posts again. Including the one where I specifically say I’m not bothered either way as to whether there’s a XIII or not and that I’m just listing the reasons why a XIII seems highly unlikely.

    It’s not spreading toxicity to point out that every bridge Red Dwarf has crossed over the last 20 years has, for various reasons, burnt up behind it. The movie’s impossible, there’s no more money in the back catalogue, they’re never going to get a giant VFX team for free again, they can’t make a series alone again, they can’t make a series with Baby Cow again as their two chief allies have left, and they’re highly unlikely to make a new series for Dave again as the chiefs have changed, XII had noticeably muted promo and UKTV closed down the merch outlet.

    At every juncture I’ve stressed that a live show *is* an open option available to them right now, as is Big Finish who are gagging to work with RD and could easily have done so for the 30th.

    One thing I’ll pull you up on though – what part of the box set was “a big undertaking”? TOS might have done a good job at talking it up pre-release, and it might have taken forever to actually emerge, but in essence it was a very run-of-the-mill mastering project in order to gain shelf real-estate for BBCWW in a chain of shops that bellyflopped before they could buy it in. It certainly wasn’t ‘output’, and if a very simple repressing exercise can count as one it does kind of prove my point about how the brand has been laying inert for longer than would be practically expected by a channel or partner looking to co-produce a series XIII as a going concern.

    #247366

    Paul Muller

    Personally speaking, I’d be more than happy with a book or two.

    #247371

    Dave

    I kind of feel like I’d be happy with *anything* else, in the sense that we’ve already had much more than I ever expected. But I’ll also be happy enough if that’s it.

    I’m sure Doug’s doing his best to keep the possibility of new projects in play, and I’m not going to sit here second-guessing it all, feeling like I could do it better or berating him for doing a shit job. I don’t feel like Red Dwarf owes me anything at this point.

    #247374

    Ben Saunders

    >what part of the box set was “a big undertaking”?
    The box set. You can criticise it to your heart’s content, but remastering eight series of television from the 90s into HD and sticking them on Blu-Ray’s and chucking them into vans to be distributed into all the different shops around the country is more than an afternoon’s work

    #247440

    Darrell

    I don’t think Doug was driving the vans.

    Seriously though, in the scheme of the DVD industry, even as it now stands, that release would be regarded as small fry by most criteria. Stuff is rebundled and repackaged and reversioned all the time. The process behind the RD Bluray box was no different to or more complicated than a film or an NTSC show being prepared for a PAL DVD, which happens every day. Even the compiling of the Bodysnatcher disc afresh from old assets would be second nature to even tiny boutique labels. Just because Doug’s ancient curse turned it all into a mountain doesn’t mean it wasn’t still a molehill. That’s not even a criticism, that’s just contextualising what that release was. It was a simple squeeze.

    #247442

    International Debris

    they’re highly unlikely to make a new series for Dave again as the chiefs have changed

    I don’t get this. The people at Dave now are going to go “This was an enormously successful show for our channel that spearheaded our line in original content, let’s not have any more of it”?

    #247443

    Darrell

    In anything else in the world, that would be insane. In UK telly, nobody wants to recommission the shows that their predecessors commissioned. This is clearly abhorrently stupid, but clean sweeps under a new broom have been the norm since the 80s at least. Whether it’s BBC One primetime or CBeebies, that’s what happens. Always. Axe happy.

    #247444

    genericnerdyusername

    Drop the enormously successful and expensive Red Dwarf? The BBC did something similar in the 90s, didn’t it?

    Darrell, I agree with you an all accounts. I hope I’m misreading the tone of the replies people have been sending you. They seem aggressive, but I could be inferring a tone which isn’t there. I just want to say your contribution to this forum is always great and I hope people aren’t putting you off.

    Who is in charge of Dave these days? I’ve Googled but too much of an idiot to find the information, I guess.

    I haven’t thought this post through.

    #247445

    Darrell

    The only things immune from this, that sit in a kind of sacred safe zone, are shows where there would be negative consequences for the commissioner if they axed them. Whether that be unstoppable brand momentum where the show becomes more famous than the channel (Bake Off, Call The Midwife), long term contractual agreements that would be costly to break (Mrs Browns Boys or golden handcuffs deals that go wrong like when BBC1 signed Jim Davidson and couldn’t get rid), a show where its profits are big enough to prop up the channel financially (Doctor Who, Sherlock) or anticipated viewer pushback significant enough to create PR issues (any BBC or ITV soap). I don’t think Red Dwarf has ever been in that zone for Dave like it was for BBC2 in the 1990s. Taskmaster, if not for Avalon reasons than anything else, has probably gained immunity from this sort of thing, but Dwarf is easy meat.

    #247449

    Dax101

    >Drop the enormously successful and expensive Red Dwarf? The BBC did something similar in the 90s, didn’t it?

    Well really no they didn’t. the BBC were fully onboard with making more Red Dwarf all through out the 90s. and from what it sounds like they were onboard with it after series 8 too since they apparently kept money aside for a potential new series after… problem is i think Doug left it too long to go back and say hey can we have that money now? and by that point the BBC were like nah.

    #247451

    quinn_drummer

    he really ought to have kept the TV show going whilst trying to get the movie off the ground, at least for the first year or so.

    #247453

    cwickham

    > At every juncture I’ve stressed that a live show *is* an open option available to them right now, as is Big Finish who are gagging to work with RD and could easily have done so for the 30th.

    BF *are* meant to have recently acquired four new licensed properties. One of them is Adam Adamant Lives, we don’t know what the other three are…

    #247458

    Paul Muller

    I kind of feel like I’d be happy with *anything* else, in the sense that we’ve already had much more than I ever expected. But I’ll also be happy enough if that’s it.

    This is of course the correct attitude. Ending on ‘Skipper’ would at least tie things up in a neat fashion, certainly a damn sight better than Ed Bye copping a knee to the bollocks.

    Whatever the likelihood of new series, I do think that a show that’s spanned thirty years, with such a rich and diverse universe of characters and stories deserves to continue and expand into new forms – whether it’s through books, comics, animation, videogames – whatever.

    I’m convinced there’s still a strong audience out there, TV or otherwise, but it’s in Doug’s hands, and after what must have been a fairly exhausting decade for him, I can understand if he wants to finally put the show to bed.

    #247459

    Ben Saunders

    Red Dwarf: The Next Generation

    #247460

    si

    Jim & Bexley’s Saturday Night Takeaway.

    #247473

    International Debris

    Pretty sure it’s been said here before that Doug’s already turned down Big Finish.

    I like the idea of it in some ways, but without an audience, and with the possibility of getting other writers in, I’m not sure how good it would be anyway…

    #247474

    cwickham

    The one thing BF could definitely do without having to worry about other writers or no audience is dramatised adaptations of the novels.

    #247475

    Darrell

    Nothing to say BF wouldn’t have got an audience in if Doug or the cast had asked for it. I think he was absolutely mad to say no when he did. Loads of different things they could have done. Expanded universe spinoffs (Kochanski, Cat People, Ace Rimmer, pre-accident ship stories with side characters), novel adaptations, Chris Barrie readings of new short stories, full blown radio episodes… could even do ‘Red Dwarf Unplugged’ at last if they wanted. It would have made money, grown the audience and grown the brand.

    #247476

    Dave

    I think I’m in the ‘less is more’ camp when it comes to that kind of spinoff stuff.

    Loads of different things they could have done. Expanded universe spinoffs (Kochanski, Cat People, Ace Rimmer, pre-accident ship stories with side characters)

    This sounds worse to me than a year with nothing at all.

    I think we have to give Doug some credit for having an eye on quality-control (cue Timewave jokes) and not wanting to just license out RD for the sake of having stuff out there. It would be very easy for him to do that, but I think it would risk making the show itself feel like less of a special event when it came along.

    #247477

    International Debris

    Yes, Big Finish’s tendency to do go one spin-off too far is something I wouldn’t be keen on Red Dwarf following.

    #247478

    Paul Muller

    Yeah, I don’t think Big Finish is necessarily the route to go – nobody needs a ten part saga centred around the Dibbley Family.

    Personally, I think Red Dwarf has always lent itself to graphic novel/comic incarnations – something along the lines of ‘Prelude to Nanarchy’ could work really well, especially with Doug’s writing and involvement.

    #247479

    Dax101

    Perhaps the problem with Big Finish is that it would reduce the chances of a new series. after all if fans can get their fix through audio then why would they pay out a budget to actually make the show?

    But if fans are thirsty for more and there is only one way to get it, then there will be much more hype.

    As for Doug and quality control… i sometimes think that filter may need a refresh :P

    #247480

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Perhaps the problem with Big Finish is that it would reduce the chances of a new series.

    Yes, that’s why there hasn’t been any new Doctor Who on TV since the Paul McGann movie.

    #247482

    Dax101

    The big finish stuff is mostly on the doctors of the past. the only way you get more adventures on them currently.

    #247483

    Dave

    Yes, I think Doctor Who is a bit of a special case in that each new Doctor refreshes the show to such an extent that it feels like a mini-relaunch each time, so new material featuring the old Doctors doesn’t tread on the toes of the current series in the same way.

    I have nothing against the idea of Red Dwarf in audio form, and stuff like the audiobooks and Bodysnatcher has proved it can work that way. But I wouldn’t personally have any interest in spinoffs featuring minor Red Dwarf characters of the past, and I’m not sure that it would make a new RD TV series any more likely even if it did happen.

    If the TV series finally hit a hard endpoint and we knew that no Series XIII was ever going to be on the cards, I guess full-cast audios could be fun if Doug and the cast were willing and able.

    #247485

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    I think once you get into all this area, I realise… I don’t really *need* to see any more of the Dwarfers. I have no appetite for any of this stuff at all, in the same way that I don’t listen to Doctor Who Big Finish stuff either. I have too much other shit I’ll never get round to listening to first.

    Which is not a reason not to make any of that stuff, of course. This is about my limits, not the show’s.

    #247486

    Dave

    Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m getting at for me, too. I obviously wouldn’t object to any of this stuff existing for other people to enjoy it, but I don’t personally have much (if any) interest and I’m not even that desperate for more of the TV series.

    #247487

    Pete Part Three

    I’ll take one more Red Dwarf outing as long as it’s a TV sitcom and has everyone drawing a line under it, rather than making the occasional noise about bringing it back. No interest in stage shows, spin-offs, radio re-imaginings, TV reboots or 80 minute Blade Runner tributes. The only interest `I have in Red Dwarf in other mediums is in book-form, and that’s more on the original stuff in the first two.

    If a fan wants Red Dwarf: The Next Generation, I’m kind of baffled as to why they like Red Dwarf in the first place.

    #247521

    Stephen Abootman

    I see that Doug, Craig, Danny, Bobby & Norman are doing ‘Stoke Con Trent’ this weekend so hopefully someone will ask how things are looking (I imagine the answers will range from ‘no idea’ to ‘fingers crossed’ if so)

    #247612

    Gordon

    I’d hope if they do get renewed they’d go out with the intention of Red Dwarf XIII (or XIV) being the last one.

    Since I bet they can make it really special if they went in with the intention this was the conclusion. Plus, I bet it being the final would boost ratings and probably interest Dave more than just another series would.

    #247779

    cwickham

    Seems worth noting here that Zapped has been cancelled

    #247780

    Ben Saunders

    My mate is going to be Craig Charles’ artist liaison at an upcoming festival he’s scheduled to appear at, an MD I’ve asked him to inquire about the XIII situation. It pays to have friends in high places.

    (He’ll probably just get the standard “hopefully/soon” answer)

    #248340

    Plastic Percy

    One way or another, I’m just glad the show hasn’t ended (for the time being, at least) on a cliffhanger.

    #248792

    PFMC84

    Well we have the recent pics Danny has been posting of some form of meeting and a pic yesterday of him getting a teeth moulding done. So it would appear something is afoot…

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