Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Back to Earth Director’s Cut – Dave & Dave HD, 9pm Sun 4 March

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  • #11527
    Nick R
    Participant

    http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/news/2012/03/02/back-to-back-to-earth/

    Is this the first time Dave have broadcast the director’s cut?

    Oh, and the 1998 Smeg Ups is on straight afterwards.

    #115644
    Alex
    Participant

    It seem to recall it being shown last year.

    #115645
    Alex
    Participant
    #115648
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    DO NONE OF YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLES NOWADAYS?

    Although Back to Earth originally aired in three parts, the home release introduced a joined-together (and slightly altered in places) Director’s Cut edition, and it was this version that got its first freeview broadcast on Dave in July last year. Back then, however, Dave’s sister high-definition channel had yet to be launched – but this time, viewers who have the channel as part of their Sky or Virgin Media XL packages can enjoy the special in all its spectacular, HD glory.

    #115650
    si
    Participant

    > Back then, however, Dave’s sister high-definition channel

    I rather hilariously just managed to misread that as ‘Dave’s sinister high-definition channel’.

    #115651
    Alex
    Participant

    DO NONE OF YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLES NOWADAYS?

    Not since that new bloke started writting them. I can’t be doing with him. I mean, who is he anyway?

    #115652
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    What articles? These ones down the right hand side of this page?

    #115653
    Alex
    Participant

    What articles? These ones down the right hand side of this page?

    The official site ones.

    #115654
    pfm
    Participant

    I own it on Blu-ray but I’ve never opened it (obviously I’ve got it on DVD too…). I’m saving the HD glory for my upcoming entire Dwarf runthrough. I may even watch VII and VIII without commentary…

    #115655
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I know what articles Seb’s on about….I was only pretending not to know about them. It was a joke. To make Seb think that nobody cared. Because it would be funny if he didn’t think we cared.

    #115656
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    And now you are all thinking “But we don’t care”…

    #115657
    Nick R
    Participant

    > I rather hilariously just managed to misread that as ‘Dave’s sinister high-definition channel’.

    “The home of witty banter.”
    “More sinister even than that.”

    #115658
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Didn’t it get an HD airing on Sky Anytime at one point?

    #115668
    si
    Participant

    BtE tonight: while I don’t for a second expect any kind of RDX teaser or somesuch, anyone reckon the continuity bloke might give it a reasonable mention? I might pop it on, satisfy my curiosity.

    #115675
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Was it just my Sky box, or did the last 5 minutes of BtE tonight not happen? All i got was Craig Charles face static for about 5 minutes. Turned the channel over. Eventually turned back and got the credits. Did anyone apologise?

    #115676
    Jo
    Participant

    No-one apologised.

    After much twittering it appears that it only affected people watching Dave HD on Sky HD boxes… but it didn’t affect any other channels, no idea how that works. Luckily it didn’t ruin everyone’s viewing experience, I spoke to a couple of people who watched it for the first time tonight, so I’m glad they got to see the whole thing!

    #115677
    Alex
    Participant

    I spoke to a couple of people who watched it for the first time tonight, so I’m glad they got to see the whole thing!

    What pleased me was seeing quite a few people saying that they hated it the first time it went out, but they rewatched it tonight and really enjoyed it.

    #115678
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Sadly, I watched Blade Runner (fantastic) on Saturday, and then watched a bit of BTE on Sunday, and it still disappointed me.

    I do realise there’s no way I could write that without sounding like a miserable cunt.

    #115679
    pfm
    Participant

    I enjoy BtE mainly due to what a great production it is and how happy I was (and still am) that new Dwarf was being made. The cargo bay/hangar CGI is so stunning. Craig gives a pretty stunning performance as Lister. Sophie ‘everything’s fine’ Winkleman is stunning…

    Humour-wise…not so much. The concept and the Blade Runner references are…serviceable. Also, while Lister has some of his greatest ever moments, the rest of the crew don’t have much meat (unless you count ham…;P)

    #115680
    pfm
    Participant

    One thing BtE never fails to do is (almost…I am a man, duh…) bring a tear to my eye with Lister’s speech at the end, when he calls back to what the kids on the bus said. If Dwarf moves me then it’s GOOD Dwarf, dammit!

    #115681
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    The cargo bay/hangar CGI is so stunning.

    This. See also: Remembrance garden…

    #115682
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Watched it last month on BD and still don’t like it very much. I think its leaps and bounds above VIII, but still think its a notch below VII both in terms of humour and plot. Find the comedy awkward (Lister sneezing tomatoes, the frequent behind-my-back joke), DETEST the BladeRunner stuff and despair at the BTR retread which was obvious as soon as squid ink starts getting sprayed around.

    I don’t think the meta stuff works particularly well as the logic of the reality they travel to is so nonsensical.

    I wish Doug had the balls to set it in a universe much closer to our own rather than a bizarro reality. It’s never even mentioned that Red Dwarf is a sitcom (wouldn’t Lister be a bit peeved that being the last human was purely for the amusement of a TV audience?) and I’d love some kind of mention that they’d been shifted to a lesser channel – you know, stuff that the show avoided saying.

    I find the first bit bland and slow, the middle bit interesting and almost promising, and the third bit mostly awful. Think it would have been much better if the show had started with Lister having gone missing while out looking for Kochanski or a curry or whatever, and the others supposedly track him down to a planet on another side of a wormhole (There’s no need for Katarina in this).

    They land in “Weatherfield” and discover the lifesign signature they’ve picked up in is not Lister, it’s actually Craig Charles doing location filming for Coronation Street. The real Lister is stalking Chloe Annett and getting miserable (if we must have all that moody Lister stuff). Suffice to say, there’s fuck all mention of a certain Ridley Scott film. This is a celebration of Red Dwarf – so there’s maybe a scene where Kryten is mobbed by Red Dwarf fans who think Robert is in costume and shooting the new episode.

    Since the characters show nothing but indifference to the fact that they’re fictional characters (AND that was handled perfectly well in Back to Reality), I don’t think there’s any thing to be gained by it being a hallucination.

    Ps. I hate fan fiction, so I apologise for all of that.

    #115683
    si
    Participant

    The main problem I have with Lister’s sudden allergy to tomatoes is the fact that tomato is such a big ingredient of curries.

    I have other issues with BtE, but that one’s the most irritating one.

    #115684
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I always thought it was Lister bullshitting about the tomatoes… The ENTIRE thing being that Lister was signposting to Rimmer so that he’d notice more.

    #115685
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >Suffice to say, there’s fuck all mention of a certain Ridley Scott film.

    With you on that, G.I. Jane’s fucking awful.

    #115686
    pfm
    Participant

    > (There’s no need for Katarina in this)

    Wanna say that again with a straight face?? ;)

    #115687
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    We have Peep Show for THAT. Or doctored porn.

    #115688
    ChrisM
    Participant

    One thing BtE never fails to do is (almost…I am a man, duh…) bring a tear to my eye with Lister’s speech at the end, when he calls back to what the kids on the bus said.

    I found myself wincing at that scene when Lister started quoting that kid… but ended up deeply touched by it. In many ways that scene really made BtE stand out for me. Not that I disliked the rest. (Well.. some of it.)

    Find the comedy awkward (Lister sneezing tomatoes, the frequent behind-my-back joke),

    I didn’t like the tomato gag. Gross* and as you say, awkward. I found the ‘behind you’ gag very funny though. I know it’s been done before, but Kryten’s attempt at subtle hinting to Rimmer sold the joke to me.

    DETEST the BladeRunner stuff and despair at the BTR retread which was obvious as soon as squid ink starts getting sprayed around.

    My feelings on the Blade Runner stuff are mixed. I got a geeky thrill in getting the references, but it got rather clunky. As for the squid ink, I think I prefer that they went that route than actually travelling to a parallel universe where they are fictional.

    Okay, I suppose it could be argued that Kryten’s explanation suggests that both explanations are true, i.e. it was both a dream and real. (I’m referring to his statement that the world they encountered would continue after they left as there are worlds for every dream and area of the imagination**.) But at least this way the viewer has a choice of which they prefer.

    Performance-wise I think BtE is amongst the best Dwarf has ever been, although Rimmer seemed a bit off to me. I thought that might be due to the character changing/maturing over the years, but I think maybe Chris Barrie just needs a bit more time to fill the uniform more. He wasn’t bad though, and some of his performance was spot-on. I’m interested to see how he fares in Red Dwarf X.

    Edit- I’m not suggesting that Barrie’s acting is bad here. It just didn’t strike me as altogether Rimmer.

    *Mind you, some gross jokes make me laugh, but coupled with the awkwardness…

    **I think that’s a bit of a stretch even for multi-verse theory.

    #115689
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Oh, and the Katarina character was great and a nice foreshadowing of what was going on. I wish they’d had time to fit in the original arrest scene though. That fills more like a suitable way of Rimmer getting his revenge.

    #115690
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I did expect to enjoy the Blade Runner stuff more once I’d actually seen Blade Runner. But I didn’t. It made more SENSE, certainly, now I get the story parallels – but I didn’t enjoy it any more than before. It felt pointless. And it feels even more pointless now Doug has admitted that Blade Runner wasn’t even a major inspiration for Dwarf.

    At the recordings I saw, Red Dwarf X may have had its faults – but it is at least its own thing.

    #115691
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >At the recordings I saw, Red Dwarf X may have had its faults – but it is at least its own thing.

    I’m glad of this.

    #115692
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >found the ‘behind you’ gag very funny though.

    Count how many times something is going on behind someone’s back in part 1 that the character is oblivious to. They do it twice in the Diving Bell scene alone.

    The tomatoes thing; it’s not that I find it gross or have a problem with gross-out humour itself, I’m just struggling to find the humour in it because it’s so meticulously contrived and devoid of any realism. Remember that Tikka Xtended bit with Kryten’s eyes flying out of his head and Rimmer catching them with a basebell mitt? It’s the same thing. It’s just so extreme and odd, I find it more bizarre than amusing.

    >And it feels even more pointless now Doug has admitted that Blade Runner wasn’t even a major inspiration for Dwarf.

    When did he do this?

    I’d seen Blade Runner years earlier but it failed to blow me away, so I hadn’t rewatched it. The references were lost on me as I couldn’t remember the scenes or characters. I’ve since rewatched Blade Runner. I now get the references. I just don’t know what I’m supposed to do with this information. It certainly doesn’t make it any funner.

    >I think maybe Chris Barrie just needs a bit more time to fill the uniform more.

    To be frank, I’ve had misgivings about Chris’s performance since Red Dwarf VII. In Red Dwarf VIII he’s definitely one of the worst offenders of making things “bigger than they need to be”, and there’s moments of this in BTE too which is even more prominent due to the lack of an audience. He didn’t need to used to go to such extremes and it’s a little unsettling because some of his best Dwarf moments as Rimmer are understated, sympathetic and genuine. Yes, Rimmer’s a prat, but he’s not a goofball and when he dances to the music in the diving bell sequence I find myself groaning. There’s a moment in X.5 as well, that will divide audiences and I’m eager to see again just to judge how big it got after a few takes.

    But, um, yeah…from what I’ve seen of it, X is better than BTE.

    #115693
    Kelly M
    Participant

    Blimey the pitchforks and torches were out on the Facebook page.

    I actually kind of liked Back to Earth. Sure, the humour feel a bit flat in more than a few places and I do wish that some characters had gotten more involved with the story. I also was slightly confused with what was a homage to Blade Runner and what wasn’t since I (still) haven’t seen it.
    However the production and sets were fantastic and it still had some brilliant moments – I admit to being more than slightly moved by Listers scene at the grave and couldn’t help but laugh at the car chase comment. I love the scene in the shop where they investigate the photo with a long winded technique. I’m a Rimmer fan, so of course I loved his scenes, especially when he pushes Katarina – a bit more of him would have been nice though.

    #115696
    pfm
    Participant

    > I’m a Rimmer fan, so of course I loved his scenes, especially when he pushes Katarina – a bit more of him would have been nice though.

    Aye, the Rimmer vs Katarina stuff was great fun but I don’t think Chris had much to get his teeth into generally with BtE. I’m quietly confident this will be amended with RDX…

    Oh…and btw…will everyone just WATCH Blade Runner please!! And LOVE it, it’s bloody astounding!!!! That’s an ORDER! ;D

    #115697
    Nick R
    Participant

    I’d seen Blade Runner years earlier but it failed to blow me away, so I hadn’t rewatched it. The references were lost on me as I couldn’t remember the scenes or characters. I’ve since rewatched Blade Runner. I now get the references. I just don’t know what I’m supposed to do with this information. It certainly doesn’t make it any funner.

    Largely the same for me. I’d seen Blade Runner a few years before BTE, but I’d completely forgotten Deckard’s photo analysis scene. So when I first watched Back to Earth, I assumed that the “enhance, uncrop” scene was a dig at Enhance Button scenes in general, rather than Blade Runner in particular.

    I found that one of the best jokes in the specials. As well as being funny, there’s another reason I like it: Red Dwarf has featured high-concept technology like nanobots/hard light holograms/FTL travel/pool with planets/Justice Fields as plot-centric elements in every episode, but in that scene there’s the novelty of seeing the series acknowledge how advanced the crew’s mundane, everyday gadgets are as well!

    #115698
    Phil
    Participant

    I did expect to enjoy the Blade Runner stuff more once I’d actually seen Blade Runner. But I didn’t. It made more SENSE, certainly, now I get the story parallels – but I didn’t enjoy it any more than before. It felt pointless. And it feels even more pointless now Doug has admitted that Blade Runner wasn’t even a major inspiration for Dwarf.

    He just said that because Ridley Scott got his lawyer. Or he was GOING to, until he saw something…that made him LAUGH.

    #115700
    Kelly M
    Participant

    Oh…and btw…will everyone just WATCH Blade Runner please!! And LOVE it, it’s bloody astounding!!!! That’s an ORDER! ;D

    :D Shall do. I’ve been meaning to watch so many things lately but I’ve been too busy either doing school work or watching Sherlock.I still need to see Reservoir Dogs, Chicago and Being Human.

    #115709
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    >What pleased me was seeing quite a few people saying that they hated it the first time it went out, but they rewatched it tonight and really enjoyed it.

    Shows how knee-jerk and judgemental a percentage of the TV audience is to Dwarf changing in any ways, some of which are/have been inevitable. On a rescreening that’s either disapated or it’s shoredup condemnation.

    >Sadly, I watched Blade Runner (fantastic) on Saturday, and then watched a bit of BTE on Sunday, and it still disappointed me.

    Isnt the laugh of recognition you get with a parody or “referencing” pretty instant and a feeling perhaps of “clever me, I spotted that”, where as the best you can get from having it pointed out to you is “ah, I see”. I mean done in that order it’s pretty much during Blade Runner watching when you have that moment if you’ve seen Dwarf first.

    #115710
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I mean done in that order it’s pretty much during Blade Runner watching when you have that moment if you’ve seen Dwarf first.

    This was a problem during certain points in Blade Runner! Luckily the film is so good it didn’t matter, but I do wish I’d watched it first…

    #115712
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Isnt the laugh of recognition you get with a parody or “referencing” pretty instant and a feeling perhaps of “clever me, I spotted that”

    Hey, Lois…remember that time I referenced something from popular culture?

    #115713
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    >the characters show nothing but indifference to the fact that they’re fictional characters,(AND that was handled perfectly well in Back to Reality)

    Cat does an (admittedly quite forced) upset face, Rimmer rejoices free of his lifes baggage again, and they feel that this truth explains so much about the past. They are under the influence of a “Joy” squid and so therefore should not feel depressed at lenght during the hallucination in the same way that they did in BTR. Beyond this initial reaction there are plenty of points where “joy” at being fictional happens. Rimmer being able to kill Katrina guilt free cus its not real, lister realising he’s got a fan club cus people are watching him, and can live out his time writing a fantasy life with his alive girlfriend, he’s the last to give up this joy. Admittedly cat and kryten I cant point out the joy so easily, they are less focussed on I think, but the coming together of the team again is one part of the joy arch and Doug’s spoken about that being the intention.

    #115714
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I take joy from the fact that Rimmer’s “reward” is getting to kill someone and feel happy about it. Oh, hang on. I don’t mean joy…what’s the opposite to that?

    #115715
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    The same Rimmer that wiped out an entire planet of wax droids and was happy with the prospect of shooting an unarmed simulant in the back, yes?

    #115716
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    When Rimmer is faced with the concept of no rebuttal, harm, or consequence he jumps at the chance to act.

    The Last Day

    Kryten: ‘He’s programmed not to harm humans’

    Rimmer: AH! Excuse me… *strolls up to Hudzen* Alright, Miladdo! The party’s over…

    Gunmen Of The Apocalypse

    Lister: (To Rimmer) What is wrong with you?

    Rimmer: You said yourself ‘no-one can hurt us’…

    I just see it as an extension of that stuff…

    #115717
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Exactly, he’s a coward and he’s before that he’d happily eliminate anyone who’s a danger to him.

    #115718
    Phil
    Participant

    The same Rimmer that wiped out an entire planet of wax droids and was happy with the prospect of shooting an unarmed simulant in the back, yes?

    It’s definitely an interesting conversation, as I can see both sides of this. I can see why Pete would be rubbed the wrong way, and yet I can see why it’s not *entirely* out of character for him.

    In these two examples, though, the script went to great lengths to remind us that Rimmer was temporarily insane in the former (an unnecessary detail, imho, but there you go), and in the latter he deduced correctly that the Simulant planned on murdering them.

    I think it’s kind of grey. We expect a certain amount of (and kind of) viciousness on Rimmer’s part, but not all viciousness seems to fit. Ditto Lister’s slobbiness / stupidity. Some of it feels right, and some of it just feels off, even if it’s no more extreme than other examples we’re just fine with.

    In all seriousness I think it’d make for an excellent essay. For someone else to write.

    #115719
    John Hoare
    Participant

    >And it feels even more pointless now Doug has admitted that Blade Runner wasn’t even a major inspiration for Dwarf.

    When did he do this?

    Last Dimension Jump during his Q&A.

    #115721
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I think there’s quite a difference between the examples listed (warfare and self-protection) and him murdering someone for shits and giggles. And the fact that this is supposed to (because I sincerely doubt it was given much thought story-wise) fill him with joy is even more puzzling.

    Rimmer once considered himself guilty for the deaths of the Red Dwarf crew and it ate him up inside enough to convict him and sentence him to 10,000 years of punishment. He’s clearly not completely bereft of morals.

    #115722
    Alex
    Participant

    I think there’s quite a difference between the examples listed (warfare and self-protection) and him murdering someone for shits and giggles. And the fact that this is supposed to (because I sincerely doubt it was given much thought story-wise) fill him with joy is even more puzzling.

    But surely it is a matter of survival. Katrina states at the start that he will be erased. With her gone, he lives. His joy comes from survival and getting one over a superior, not from bumping someone off.

    #115723
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Then manufacture a sequence of events whereby he can outwit her. It’s his bloody fantasy, after all. Pushing her in front of a car isn’t “getting one over her”.

    #115724
    Alex
    Participant

    Then manufacture a sequence of events whereby he can outwit her. It’s his bloody fantasy, after all. Pushing her in front of a car isn’t “getting one over her”.

    Of course it is. She’s gone and he lives, so he gets one over. He outwits her simply because she didn’t see it coming. Ok, it’s not an ingenious plot on his part, but the character isn’t one for dreaming up such plans. As for any arguments over morals, he even gets her to justify him killing her.

    #115725
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I thnk it’s safe to say that Rimmer’s psyche isn’t exactly black and white.

    #115726
    clem
    Participant

    > just WATCH Blade Runner please!!

    Which version should we watch? I did see it many years ago and keep meaning to watch it again. You should all watch Dark Star as well if you’ve never seen it.

    #115727
    Ridley
    Participant

    As for any arguments over morals, he even gets her to justify him killing her.

    Myes, she does basically give him permission.

    #115728
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >She’s gone and he lives, so he gets one over. He outwits her simply because she didn’t see it coming. Ok, it’s not an ingenious plot on his part, but the character isn’t one for dreaming up such plans.

    Not even, on the evidence of BTE, in his own fantasies.

    >As for any arguments over morals, he even gets her to justify him killing her.

    Yes, that’s how morals work.

    I’m not going to continue arguing this point as you think killing someone is the same thing as outwitting them, so I’ll just smile and nod and say you’re right, lest you feel the inclination to push me in front of a car.

    #115729
    Phil
    Participant

    I thnk it’s safe to say that Rimmer’s psyche isn’t exactly black and white.

    In fact, one might say it’s a grey matter.

    #115730
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Expertly done, Phil.

    #115731
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Which version should we watch? I did see it many years ago and keep meaning to watch it again. You should all watch Dark Star as well if you’ve never seen it.

    The Final Cut is my favourite version, but to all the references I’d advise you watch The Theatrical Cut.

    Actually, watch both. :)

    #115733
    pfm
    Participant

    The Final Cut was IMO one of the few cases where the director messing with a film years down the line actually worked. Brilliantly, too. It’s absolutely flawless.

    Differing opinions to this are welcome…in the reject bin with the rest of the Raggy Dolls! :D

    > I still need to see Reservoir Dogs, Chicago and Being Human.

    Oh what delights await you, Kelly! Chicago is actually a guilty pleasure of mine, with it coming out right in the middle of my *obsesses over Renee Zellweger* phase…

    #115734
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    You don’t need to see Chicago. It’s shit.

    #115737
    Alex
    Participant

    In all seriousness I think it’d make for an excellent essay. For someone else to write.

    Done.

    #115738
    UncreativeUserName
    Participant

    The Blade Runner angle in BTE is one of the most baffling things I’ve ever seen in anything ever. I mean, I kinda liked Back To Earth, but it would’ve been so much better without it.

    #115739
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Done

    Lovely stuff. I’m not sure I can be arsed to write a full rebuttal, but briefly (because this has been discussed above);

    Most of your examples are where Rimmer asks someone else to do the dirty work for him, and they provide a “no” to stop that happening. Or in the case of The Inquisitor, they actually go along with it (?!). Were he the one holding the bazookoid in these instances, one wonders if he’d live up to his bold claims.

    In the case of the oft-quoted Demons and Angels bit; Rimmer isn’t advocating killing Lister or The Cat, he’s simply saying that, if they die, it helps him and Kryten reach the asteroid. I guess this comes down to whether you think allowing someone to die is the same as murder, and there’s plenty of discussion on that topic to be going on with.

    #115740
    Alex
    Participant

    ost of your examples are where Rimmer asks someone else to do the dirty work for him, and they provide a “no” to stop that happening. Or in the case of The Inquisitor, they actually go along with it (?!). Were he the one holding the bazookoid in these instances, one wonders if he’d live up to his bold claims.

    There were more examples originally, but I cut it down to save on sanity. I couldn’t justify a 1,500+ word count either. Without re-reading it i’m not sure if it was kept in, but my feeling was that no he wouldn’t due to being a coward, and that it is extreme good fortune for the charecter in such episodes that he is soft light.

    #115408

    Rimmer now knows that Katrina is a fictional character and not a real person. That’s good enough an explanation for me.

    #115371
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Did you watch Part Three before Part Two?

    #205528
    clem
    Participant

    Got BtE on Blu-ray for Christmas and promised myself I’d finally get around to seeing Blade Runner again before I watch it. Handily, the Final Cut is on BBC2 tomorrow night at 11.30, followed by a making-of documentary.

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