Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Back to Earth: The Phil Edit NOW ON YOUTUBEZZ!!!!

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  • #3326
    Phil
    Participant

    EDIT:

    ‘Tis done.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QIb83-2Vuw
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxpp3BOedkE
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPhzXmMEjrI

    ————————————-
    ORIGINAL POST:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btWtLNY523A
    Just the intro. Which may be as far as I ever get. But let’s hope not.

    #96256
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    Ha! Looking forward to the rest of it.

    #96257
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Tell you what, Phil, when you’ve created a sitcom of the standard of Red Dwarf, then you can put yourself above Doug Naylor by claiming to “salvage” his work, alright?

    Shame, ‘cos that was otherwise quite amusing. But there’s no need to be a presumptuous fuck.

    #96258
    pfm
    Participant

    > But there?s no need to be a presumptuous fuck.

    ThIs.

    Btw a 30 minute edit WILL be shit.

    #96262
    Phil
    Participant

    >But there?s no need to be a presumptuous fuck.

    This was not at all intended by my choice of words, but if it’s going to be an issue, then I can easily swap out that single word in the edit. (The narration needs re-recording, too.) Of course I’m not suggesting I’m capable of producing something better than Red Dwarf…but isn’t any fan-edit a presumptuous exercise in itself?

    I’d have thought that considering the edit hasn’t even begun yet it could be taken as a sort of joke, but yes, if it’s going to make people think that I believe trimming rake-scenes out of a Red Dwarf special elevates me to the level of Ultimate Television Man, I’ll switch it out.

    >a 30 minute edit WILL be shit.

    Well, I’m just putting my money where my mouth is. I’m convinced a 30 minute version would work better, so I’ll get in there and find out. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.

    #96267
    Mr Flibble
    Participant

    That’s a nice idea and quite amusing though.

    #96268
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I’m pretty impressed so far.

    #96308
    Dave
    Participant

    >Well, I?m just putting my money where my mouth is

    It sounds more like you are demanding a refund.

    #96316
    Another Phil
    Participant

    You think a 30 minute edit would make BtE better?! If anything, IMO, the main problem with BtE is that it needs to be longer, not shorter (the show feels a bit too fast-paced at times, and certain plot points are rather rushed over). Personally, I’m definitely looking forward to the inevitable extended cut on the DVD.

    BTW, since this is one of my first posts, I’d better point out that my username is not any sort of comment or dig, it’s just the product of having an inconveniently common name.

    #96320
    pfm
    Participant

    This is designed as a TVM, it’s not meant to be a regular 30min episode of Red Dwarf. Trying to turn it into that will only make it worse. I can’t think of anything major that I would want to see cut from the episode.

    #96328
    Phil
    Participant

    >the main problem with BtE is that it needs to be longer, not shorter

    People seem to hold this opinion, and that’s fine, but I’d argue that if Doug really needed more time to tell this story, why did he spend so much time on skutters, and dancing, and hitting the crew with rakes? Why did we visit the nosemaker? If he needed more time to tell the story, I think the first priority should have been using the time he DID have more effectively.

    >an inconveniently common name.

    Understood, and well put.

    >it?s not meant to be a regular 30min episode of Red Dwarf

    It’s not meant to be, no. I’m just going to see if I can get it to function as one. I wanted to do a Back in the Red edit way back in the days of its VHS release (and–remarkably for that point in time–I actually DID have access to a pretty sweet editing deck) but I never ended up doing it, for reasons I can’t recall.

    #96341
    NoFro
    Participant

    I think Another Phil holds the same opinion as a lot of us. Whilst we felt some scenes could have been cut down or even cut out, at points it felt like some gaps needed filling and some bits needed adding in.

    Everything in parts two and three happened very quickly. I would like to see a shorter cut just to see what it does to the pacing.

    #96344
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I think bits like between Coronation Street and getting to the creator were far too fast, a short 30 second scene in Car Bug could have easily bridged the gap. I think it will be much improved by the 75 minute directors cut (which was shown at the premier).

    #96348
    NoFro
    Participant

    Yerp. How long is the show without duplicate intro sequences, credits and with the ads taken out?

    That could hint at how much extra stuff there could potentially be in the version that was seen at the premier.

    #96350
    hummingbird
    Participant

    > at points it felt like some gaps needed filling and some bits needed adding in.

    I thought so too. I’m hoping that the DVD will remedy this.

    #96351
    Phil
    Participant

    >Yerp. How long is the show without duplicate intro sequences, credits and with the ads taken out?

    Someone else commented here (I’d have to dig it out, and that might not be as easy as usual) that it was around and hour and ten minutes without credits/ads. (IIRC)

    >at points it felt like some gaps needed filling and some bits needed adding in.

    Absolutely. A lot of that meandering stuff SHOULD have been cut out to make room for the additional stuff that would (hopefully) have made the episode hang together better.

    I’m not of the opinion that a 3-episode treatment of this idea was doomed to fail; I think it could have worked quite well. But I AM of the opinion that the 3 episodes we actually got came nowhere near their potential, and could easily be compacted into a much shorter one.

    #96396
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    >”But there?s no need to be a presumptuous fuck.”

    And never make fun of it.

    #96463
    Phil
    Participant

    For those keeping score, BtE pt 1 clocks in at about 8 minutes right now.

    #96465
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    >For those keeping score, BtE pt 1 clocks in at about 8 minutes right now.

    Wow really? Be interesting to see this. I recorded all the shows to my computer yesterday, and without the ads and the extra titles and recaps, the whole show clocked in at just over an hour long. I tried going through it and seeing what i could get rid of, but i couldn’t find a lot that would genuinely benefit from being deleted. Most of it that wasn’t completely vital to the plot actually had some decent jokes in.

    So will be interesting to see what you come up with :)

    #96466
    Phil
    Participant

    Stabby, I would definitely be genuinely excited to see what you come up with as well. One, because I think your edit and mine will differ significantly enough to keep them both interesting. Two, because you’re going to absolutely blow mine away, without any question.

    #96472
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    May I just say that speculating on what laughter or edits would look like is one thing, but seeing these things produced in a matter of hours is just strange.

    #96475
    Phil
    Participant

    It’ll be a while for me to finish…right now I’m just cutting the stuff I know I want to remove. I’m definitely no whiz when it comes to editing, but I’ll do my “closer”, more careful edits probably sometime over the weekend.

    #96479
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    Phil, btw, I posted elsewhere that Robert said he and doug have seen the laugh track and talked about it. If you have any reservations about your intro video, well, just heads up.

    #96485
    Mr Flibble
    Participant

    Wow really? Be interesting to see this. I recorded all the shows to my computer yesterday, and without the ads and the extra titles and recaps, the whole show clocked in at just over an hour long. I tried going through it and seeing what i could get rid of, but i couldn?t find a lot that would genuinely benefit from being deleted.

    It occurred to me that you could quite easily get rid of Katerina without too much problem.

    Rimmer has been reading that “for Idiots” book – he could have found out how to make the portal from that. It would be funneh because it must be really easy if it’s in the Idiots book. Or Kryten thought of it on holiday.

    The whole “dig up some dirt on Katerina” plotline was pointless and just padding, as was Rimmer killing her.

    I’m sure she was there as “sexy woman quota”, but the show would have been better without her, IMO.

    #96489
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    That’s a good point. Katerina was mostly useless, but if you were to delete all that you would really need a scene where Rimmer actually sets up the dimension changing timey wimey stuff, and the scene where it all happens has Katerina in almost every shot so would be hard to get rid of her entirely.

    #96506
    Somebody
    Participant

    A suggestion for anyone attempting a fan edit, especially a short version as with this one:

    Open with the memorial stone scene as a pre-titles sequence, cueing titles after Cat’s “Have you got a minute?” [More advanced suggestion: drop the RD logo at the start of the titles, and put that first bit of the tune over Cat…]

    #96508
    Carlito
    Participant

    > Tell you what, Phil, when you?ve created a sitcom of the standard of Red Dwarf, then you can put yourself above Doug Naylor by claiming to ?salvage? his work, alright? Shame, ?cos that was otherwise quite amusing. But there?s no need to be a presumptuous fuck.

    I second this.

    #96525
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Open with the memorial stone scene as a pre-titles sequence, cueing titles after Cat?s ?Have you got a minute?? [More advanced suggestion: drop the RD logo at the start of the titles, and put that first bit of the tune over Cat?]

    This could work. We’d lose the opening tracking shock, sadly. But also the awful opening scene with the ironing.

    Part of my problem with BTE was the lasy rehash of Back to Reality. Would have preferred it if the stuff about the despair squid was ditched and it was simply Katerina responsible for this. You’d never be able to edit it into this though.

    #96531
    NoFro
    Participant

    I’d say most of the stuff that could be cut is in the first episode. Some great stuff, but not necessary to the story. As mentioned, the first scene isn’t needed and having the memorial garden as an opening would be brilliant in my opinion. But I don’t think it needs to be before the opening titles.

    Also, I think if about 4 lines were taken out the kids on bus scene, it would be a lot better for being that small bit shorter.

    #96532
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Since when did “not vital to the story” = “expendable”? There’s such a thing as pacing, and I just can’t see how *reducing* the running time of BTE could possibly improve it.

    #96551
    Phil
    Participant

    >Since when did ?not vital to the story? = ?expendable??

    Well, it doesn’t. For myself, it’s more of a “not vital to the story” + “not very funny” = “expendable.”

    Again, as I’ve said before, I’m not putting something together to replace BtE; I’m trying to get out of it a half hour of television that *I* would conceivably have enjoyed more. We’ll see how it turns out.

    >A suggestion for anyone attempting a fan edit, especially a short version as with this one:

    I was actually going to do something very similar to this, Somebody, but in the course of trimming things down moved it somewhere else entirely, for better or worse. I tried to move a few things around (without giving away too much of the edit yet) but wasn’t always able to do so, due to dialogue giving certain things away. (A better editor than me would probably be able to shuffle the dialogue around, too…but I ain’t he.)

    Again, for those keeping score, the rough cut of all three eps has clocked in at around 33 minutes. I DID however lose one scene that I really wanted to keep, so hopefully tightening things up during the weekend will leave room for me to plop it back in.

    #96562
    Phil
    Participant

    Also, I’d have to wonder if a fan-edit of The Pete Epic would result in me being called a presumptuous fuck. Somehow I don’t think it would, despite the fact that that gesture is no more or less presumptuous than cutting up Back to Earth.

    Yeah, yeah, I know it’s the word “salvage” you’re taking issue with. I should have remembered we’re on G+T, where exaggerations are simply not tolerated.

    #96565
    Tyrell Corporation
    Participant

    Phil, you’re more than welcome to create a fan edit.

    But please, shut up about it and fuck off.

    #96567
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Ok, I’ve finished Part 1 of my edit. Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0k1MvoRo2c

    #96568
    Tyrell Corporation
    Participant

    I see what you did there.

    #96586
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    But please, shut up about it and fuck off.

    As much as I agree with your general pro-BTE sentiment, please don’t tell people to fuck off. If anyone’s going to tell people to fuck off, it’ll be the G&T staff…

    #96590
    Tyrell Corporation
    Participant

    My apologies.

    You can fuck off as well.

    #96591
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    I enjoyed Back to Earth a great deal…but will be very interested to watch this. Fan edits are good fun.

    (You fucker).

    #96592
    Mr Flibble
    Participant

    There?s such a thing as pacing, and I just can?t see how *reducing* the running time of BTE could possibly improve it.

    There’s two sides to this argument. The first is that BtE moved too fast, there was little exposition etc. The other is that BtE is full of superfluous crap that really isn’t very funny, and doesn’t need to be there.

    Therefore whereas BtE needs to be the same running time, it needs different contents in order to make good use of that time.

    BtE shows beautifully how Doug Naylor cannot pace a show properly. Comedy was often shoved into BtE at the expense of exposition, and with little regard to how fast or slow the story moves. This needs rectifing if Doug writes more Dwarf, and especially if he is ever let loose on a movie.

    I don’t mean to be negative as a whole, but the pacing really was awful.

    #96611
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    ‘His funny robot’ made me lol.

    >”For those keeping score, BtE pt 1 clocks in at about 8 minutes right now.”

    Pity. It’s the only ep I really liked.

    #96762
    Phil
    Participant

    Well, that actually went much, much more quickly than I would have thought. The edit is basically done after just a couple hours’ work. I’ll give it another look-over sometime before the weekend, hopefully, and I have something I’d like to add to the end, but it’s there.

    Overall time: about 31 minutes.

    And it’s not just time-cuts, so hopefully a lot of you (well…some of you. One of you. Maybe…) will enjoy it. I took a different approach to this edit, not intending it at all to necessarily sit next to the other 52 episodes in a lineup. Whether or not it’s well-received, I’m at least happy that I achieved what I was going for.

    See you this weekend.

    #96950
    Jo
    Participant

    If you’ve cut my cameo out, I’ll break your legs.

    #96964
    Phil
    Participant

    Ah well, nevermind the cleaner edits. I was going to spend some time ironing out the rougher moments, but it’s basically done.

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QIb83-2Vuw
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxpp3BOedkE
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPhzXmMEjrI

    Hope the whole world enjoys!

    #96965
    pfm
    Participant

    And your Guybrush Threepwood-esque voiceover makes it a better edit how??

    #96966
    Jo
    Participant

    Soon you’ll be wearing my sword like a shish kebab!

    #96967
    Somebody
    Participant

    *watched about thirty seconds of it*

    No. Just… no.

    #96969
    Phil
    Participant

    >a better edit how??

    Not better in itself, but I used it to fill in whatever information I lost by cutting otherwise unnecessary scenes, which is what led me to give it the Arrested Development (or as you know it, The Secret of Monkey Island) treatment instead of standard Dwarf.

    Also, do I actually sound like Guybrush? I’m not sure I ever played any of the talkie games…intriguing if so!

    Also:
    Potato will indeed have two legs on her “to break” list.

    #96968
    Jo
    Participant

    >If you?ve cut my cameo out, I?ll break your legs.

    Right Reed, I warned you!

    #96970
    JamesTC
    Participant

    That was a bit crap.
    The narration was just an excuse to cut parts essential to the plot out and sometimes you added a narration when they were not needed.
    The music was annoying at certain points because you overlayed it against the previous music.
    Specifically I hated the scene with Swallow being cut out, not because it is very good because it is one of the lesser scenes but for one you cut out the bus scenes just before which are funny and add to the plot (Kochanski is alive) and the fact that you left in that zoom into picture scene without it serving to the plot, if you wanted to trim it you should have cut the picture zoom scene with the nose world scene.
    Oh and what was he point in taking out the Kryten dance and putting it in the end, if you just had Kryten coming in and Lister saying he was back then that scene would not have the amazing appearing Kryten.

    You have proved that BtE cannot be made into a 30 minute episode, it barely fits into 70 minutes.

    #96971
    Phil
    Participant

    My legs are elevated and waiting.

    #96972
    Phil
    Participant

    Object: I’ll address a few of your points, as they’re good ones.

    Swallow was cut, but the picture sequence was left in. Mainly because I didn’t think the Swallow stuff helped anything (at all), but the picture sequence was (IMHO) a comic highlight of the three-parter. I thought it was worth keeping for the laugh…

    The bus was indeed a major loss; I would like to have kept that. I was going to use that as their transition to Corrie, but went with Carbug in the end instead; it saved me having to cut out references to Starbug’s arrival on Corrie.

    But yeah, the bus was one scene I definitely would have kept if I had the ability to edit around it better.

    >You have proved that BtE cannot be made into a 30 minute episode, it barely fits into 70 minutes.

    I’m not sure that’s entirely true as the plot is pretty much there; there’s very little missing in that specific respect. As I’ve said before, this particular story could have worked VERY well over three episodes; I’m just not convinced that the three episodes we got were the right ones.

    #96973
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    Not half bad, really, although I liked your opening and the ending best; when you’re having fun with it, rather than compressing it.

    #96975
    Phil
    Participant

    >I liked your opening and the ending best; when you?re having fun with it, rather than compressing it.

    I’d like to have done more of that kind of thing (indeed I had a few ideas for them…) but figured it wasn’t worth investing TOO much time into what was basically an experiment anyway.

    Regardless, thanks! And even the negative feedback is interesting; it’s been a pretty fun little exercise.

    #96976
    Jo
    Participant
    #96980
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    You’re welcome. Like the laugh track experiment, now we know what it would look like. The creative bits though can stand on their own, so if you’re inclined, make them anyway. You don’t need your legs to edit, right?

    #96981
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    Oh my god, they’re right. You’re a fictional pirate that has somehow escaped the video game world.

    #96982
    Phil
    Participant

    >Guybrush Threepwood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rREKIPsDi6g

    …wow.

    #97010
    hummingbird
    Participant

    Only watched the first part, but I think you’ve missed the point of most of part 1.

    You’re taking for granted that the audience for BtE is as familar with RD as you are.
    Not every viewer will be have seen the show before or will remember it well from 10 years earlier, and Part 1 serves to re-establish who these characters are. While you may think that scenes you cut are superfluous they actually serve that very important function.

    The opening scenes and the tentacle/holiday scene for example: in the first scene the Rimmer/scutter and Rimmer/Lister exchanges do a great job of telling us exactly who these people are, and likewise for Kryten and Cat in the tentacle/holiday scene.

    In addition, they needed to establish the set-up as a whole for an unfamiliar audience. Cutting straight to the diving bell at the beginning does nothing to explain where they are or what they’re doing, whereas retaining those first few scenes does.

    #97014
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    See, what you’ve done there, is you’ve confused “editing Back to Earth down into half an hour that’s still Red Dwarf” with “turning it into Arrested Development”. An easy mistake to make, I’ll grant.

    #97022
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >You?re taking for granted that the audience for BtE is as familar with RD as you are.

    Didn’t Doug do this in Part Three?

    #97037
    Phil
    Participant

    >Not every viewer will be have seen the show before or will remember it well from 10 years earlier, and Part 1 serves to re-establish who these characters are.

    I actually agree with you on the structural desirability of those scenes…I just didn’t think the quality warranted them. The skutters and Rimmer hanging the picture were pretty lame. The tomato gag was overlong and (hey, again, IMHO) awful.

    The Cat stuff had some good jokes, and was one of my favorite scenes form the weekend, but definitely needed trimming.

    And honestly, I’m not sure Red Dwarf NEEDS an intro sequence for people unfamiliar. (This is a discussion in itself, though.) Very few people, comparatively, start watching the show with either The End or Psirens, but they seem to stick around and pick up the characters without any problem. If the material is good enough, the audience will want to find out about the characters and will watch more carefully. If the material isn’t good, a direct “here’s specifically how these characters are going to try to be funny” isn’t much help down the road to enjoyment.

    >?turning it into Arrested Development?

    It was remarkable the way the intro I uploaded a few nights ago night concealed that surprising fact, wasn’t it?

    #97054
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >It was remarkable the way the intro I uploaded a few nights ago night concealed that surprising fact, wasn?t it?

    Yeah, but I thought that was a one-off gag – not the WHOLE gag. And if it was your intention to basically make an elaborate joke along the lines of “the way to make BTE half an hour of TV that I enjoy is to make it into Arrested Development”, then didn’t you ruin that by showing us the intro in advance? I mean, you’re a pretty funny guy, Phil – you must have SOME idea about comic timing, right?

    #97062
    Phil
    Participant

    >an elaborate joke along the lines of ?the way to make BTE half an hour of TV that I enjoy is to make it into Arrested Development?

    Actually that was just my solution (successful or not) to the problems caused by editing the footage. Music would jump around, characters would snap from one position to the other. Once I realized I’d need some way of smoothing that out I figured I’d do so with narration, which led me to think I could also have some AD fun along the way. The music, obviously, became another easy fix. (If I didn’t have to for cutting reasons, I would have been happy to leave the actual music from the specials.)

    It’s just a way of smoothing over those moments (again, successful or not, they’re smoother than they WOULD have been with my small amount of editing experience) and having fun with the format.

    #97385
    Dave
    Participant

    It’s slimmer, but not better.

    #97453
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    Dorksville springs instantly to mind.

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