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  • #1748
    John Hoare
    Participant

    This thread continues the discussion from the previous Doctor Who thread. It seemed best to create a new topic whilst I still haven’t got pagination sorted.

    As to why I haven’t got pagination sorted – it’s a long complicated story, and it involves various bits of Drupal being rubbish. I *will* get a fix for it eventually, though.

    #123656

    Even with pagination, you’d problably have had to make a new thread for Doctor Who eventually.

    And, even though I appear to have caused a bit of controversy in the last thread, I hope we can all agree:

    Rose’s mother = thick as a bag of hammers.

    And really, you ought to have called this thread “The Second Doctor Who (Thread)” =P .

    edit: Or “Doctor Who Thread II: Electric Boogaloo”. Or maybe “Doctor Who Thread II: The Reckoning”. I could prolly keep this up for hours…

    #123341
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Arlene : it is true that Rose’s supporting cast are annoying as hell in series one. It’s also true, however, that they improve immeasurably as series two goes on. Jackie is brilliant in “Love & Monsters”, and Mickey quite remarkably stops being irritating and starts to become a likeable hero both in the Cyberman two-parter (which finally gives him a bit of backstory) and in… well, I won’t spoil it for you, you’ve got all that to come. Suffice to say, by the end of the series, I actually began to feel sorry that it was the last we were going to see of them all.

    “Fathers Day” is bloody excellent, though. First ep of the new series to make me cry, I think. And by no means the last. I’m so bloody psyched about the rest of the series, though – Cornell has raised the bar with “Human Nature”, but we’ve got a Moffat to enjoy, followed by the return of Captain Jack (another note to Arlene : wait until you meet Captain Jack. Just wait.), followed by what looks to be the awesomest and darkest finale yet, complete with JOHN FUCKING SIMM. Bring it on!

    #123554
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho

    The BBC site has updated for Blink, now. I’m not usualyl a fan of the cheap Flash animations they use on there, but this one’s quite effective.

    This episode is going to be bloody, BLOODY brilliant, isn’t it?

    #123555
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Arlene, you must be due to have The Empty Child next – when’s that on? I’ll really look forward to hearing what you think about it…

    #123661
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    *best Craig Charles impersonation*

    What’s pagination?

    Additional: (The fact bit) A Liverpool FC forum yesterday featured a post that Craig had been spotted with Liverpool’s Chief Executive (and complete gimboid) Rick Parry.

    (The not-fact bit) supposedly he’s involved in the potential transfer of Djibril Ciss?. Apparently Rick wanted someone who could help him dispose of ?14 million’s worth of Black African Dope.

    #123662
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Just read the Fear Factor thingy. Out of 5 teh kidz gave it 5.5

    (27) “This is getting seriously weird,” decides Harry. Adam’s sad. “It’s coming,” says Samuel ominously…
    (28) The kids fall silent.
    (29) The kids grin at the Doctor’s cleverness.
    (33) The kids all jump out of their seats! Harry covers his face with his hands. Samuel clutches dad.

    Heck I’m looking forward to this.

    #123673
    John Hoare
    Participant

    *best Craig Charles impersonation*

    What?s pagination?

    Splitting the forum display into pages – so, you’ll get, say 30 posts on a page – and then you go to page 2.

    Simple enough, you might think. And I can enable it with a couple of clicks on the mouse. But STUPIDLY, the software won’t display the number of pages (and links to those pages) in the topics listing, like EVERY SINGLE OTHER PIECE OF FORUM SOFTWARE does. Which would make the whole thing completely confusing.

    So I’ve got to find a way to make it do that. It’s doable, but it’ll take a bit of work.

    #123674
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Cheers John.

    Btw look what I found…

    http://www.powerplaymagazine.co.uk/contacts.html

    #123675
    John Hoare
    Participant

    How deliciously bizarre.

    I might get bored of that quote at some point.

    Nothing to do with me, anyway. I wouldn’t be seen dead using tables for layout…

    #123676
    pfm
    Participant

    DoN’t BliNk.

    #123677
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > Nothing to do with me, anyway. I wouldn?t be seen dead using tables for layout?

    That made me do an LOL.

    #123684
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I’m rather pished, but have to rave about how bloody awesome Blink was. Simply stunning and the best piece of TV Sci-fi I’ve seen in years. A solid story (which made sense!), very little running around, the creepiest badguys I’ve seen in the show and a great cast (make Sally a companion NOW).

    Yes, it was obviously one of those shows they roll out to give the regular cast a break, but it was far better than anything they’ve ever done. Yes, that includes TGITFP and the recent WW1 two parter.

    #123686
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Don’t worry, you’ve got Steven Moffat’s two-parter to come next. All will be right again.

    (we’ve just had a new Steven Moffat episode air in the UK, as well. And it was fucking *brilliant*. One of the absolute best of the new series to date.)

    #123685

    Okay, now that I can get three public television stations, all of which air Doctor Who, I’ll now be watching (and blathering to you lot about) two episodes weekly, on a normal week. Tomorrow (unless there’s some more pledge-drive crap) I’ll be covering part one of the two-parter with Captain Jack in it, but now I’ll try to piece together my thoughts on “The Long Game”.

    Erm. Is it just me or did the Doctor etc. not actually do much? The entire second half, it seems, particularly the resolution, rested on a series of coincidences. After all, if Ms. Idunno (the “journalist”) hadn’t just happened to follow the Doctor and Rose up to where the Monster of the Week was lurking (which flies in the face of all that “They’ve been bred to not ask questions! They’re like cattle!” crap which, and I’m just guessing here, just by piecing together a few extremely subtle clues hidden deeply in the episode, is some kind of Satire or Comment on Modern TV and The News), they’d have been well fucked, I daresay. And if the Doctor hadn’t trusted Plot Element–sorry, Adam–with unlimited funds so he could install HeadDoor9.0Advanced despite how disgusted he was by it initially and how it wouldn’t actually help him retain any of this wondrous future knowledge (or would it? Did Davies ever make up his mind on that? Early on we’re told that the brain can’t hold all that information, but later it’s implied that the main reason to get HeadDoored is that you can download stuff to your brain faster or better or something), then Irritating Git (“Editor”, sorry) would never have found out who the Doctor was, so he could suddenly want the Doctor’s “knowledge” for no good reason. And we couldn’t have that, could we?

    By the way, why did the Big Gob of Bubblegum With Teeth that Sounded Like Cthulhu with Strep Throat need the Doctor’s “knowledge”, anyway? Besides that It’s In The Script. Maybe Editor might’ve wanted it himself ‘cos knowing stuff makes him horny or something, but he answers to the Elder God With Laryngitis, who would presumably know that, if anything, new knowledge would be a monkey wrench in the system it’s already gotten to work quite smoothly–the entire human race is already under its proverbial thumb, somehow. Emphasis on “somehow”. I get that it appeared to have put itself in a position such that it needs the Satellite–and, I guess, tho’ it isn’t made very clear, the humans it’s allegedly controlling–to live (altho’ if a creature can’t live without technological support, isn’t that a bit contrary to evolution or something?). But how did that happen in the first place? The Doctor and Irritating Git both kept saying “They’re like cattle! They don’t ask questions!”, and we get one token but not unusual series of “I dunno, I don’t ask questions” from Ms. Idunno (would you connect heating problems and a lack of aliens hanging around to a big nasty ceiling monster controlling human development? If so, either you’re the Doctor or you need to crush some tinfoil on your hat), but I saw no real indications that they were any different from people now–in fact, isn’t there that little piece with the freedom fighter in the first half? And, again, one of those “cattle” got independent enough to save the Doctor’s life. (I guess it’s just the Doctor’s inimitable mojo that allowed her to throw off the shackles of her unwitting slavery, huh?) It’s also worth noting how very convenient it was that Ms. Idunno’s brain could suddenly handle controlling the whole Satellite even though the console thingy was made for downloading (or “processing”, ‘cos the brain may or may not be able to handle all that info, depending on the needs of the script), which is generally one-way, and that she knew she’d be able to control stuff given all this. I guess she knew all along that she could, but had never ever done so until now even accidentally (‘cos otherwise she’d prolly have been monster fodder). ‘Cos They Don’t Ask Questions; They’re Like Cattle!

    How does the entire archives of this Satellite thing fit onto an answering machine, anyway? And if all that info is too much for a brain to take without immediately forgetting it, what did Plot Element plan on doing with it anyway? It would’ve been useless to him. I think. Again, I don’t think anyone actually decided whether or not this was so. (I’m not even going to touch how silly the Magic Forehead Door is. Can you get a moonroof too, and a six-disc CD player installed in your ass while they’re at it?)

    On the bright side, I now know why the Doctor had that gigantic stick up his backside throughout “Father’s Day”. The Stupid Ape used him, see, and that’s very tragic. Look, the knowledge was useless to him as it was anyway. Surely a more fitting vengeance would have been letting him find that out on his own? Oh, and maybe not dooming him to dissection. After all, with a HeadDoor that can be opened so easily as his can–remember the “comedy” moment when his mother saw it?–either he’s going to be found out very, very soon and taken apart by scientists, or he’ll have to be much more than “average” and “low-key”: He’ll have to more or less cut himself off from all human contact until the day he dies, which seems a slightly disproportionate punishment for taking information in relative innocence that would have been of no use to him anyway.

    Still, Adam ain’t likely to piss off the Doctor twice. He probably won’t live that long.

    #123657
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    Is it cruel of me to have placed all of the garden fountain statues
    faces up against the conservatory windows, just before my father sits
    down to watch the recording of last nights Dr who “blink” later today ??

    (evil laugh) :-)

    #123680

    I loved Blink, espcially the fact that the villain wasn’t some big scary monster, but rather something as everyday as a statue. It’s an Alfred Hitchcock sort of thing, he evoked fear of ordinary things (like Birds) because what is the point of making you scared of something you’ll never see (like a Dalek).

    #123681
    Seph
    Participant

    I liked Blink, but I couldn’t get the thought out of my head that they were baisically playing ‘Red Light Green Light’ with evil statues.

    Although it was the first episode of the ‘new doctor’ i’ve watched where the monstor of the week didn’t look like something they knocked up on Blue Peter half an hour before the show.

    #123682
    pfm
    Participant

    I know people are raving about the episode but, despite it being good, I don’t think it beat Moffat’s previous efforts. Saying that, it proves that a ‘Doctor-lite’ episode can be as brilliant as they come rather than just a filler (I liked Love & Monsters but this was much better).

    Sally Sparrow…yet another in a long line of, let’s face it, AMAZING girls to grace new Who episodes and who you wished were permanent fixtures.

    #123697
    pfm
    Participant

    I…AM…TEH MASTER

    #123698
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Holy mother of shitting Christ.

    #123699
    Rad
    Participant

    Yeah, that was amazing. And I totally disagree with newspaper critics that the rest of the episode was poor and was just buildng up for the climax. I thought the story about the last humans at the end of the universe was very intriguing and I can’t wait to find out what happens to them. Hopefully RTD won’t get too cameo-happy in the big two-parter.

    #123700

    …………wow……..

    #123701
    #123707

    I don’t like to interrupt while you all are busy digesting a huge plot twist in New Who, but I’ve just had the most extraordinary good luck and I don’t really know anyplace else online where people would both know and particularly care what I’m talking about. My mother’s a member of the local Freecycle group (people who give stuff away online to people who live near them), and one of the offers she ran across yesterday included a bunch of VHS tapes. So now (because it’s my birthday on Thursday) I’m the extremely happy owner of thirty-nine VHS tapes of classic Doctor Who, each of which has three or four episodes on it. It’s five different Doctors’ worth of episodes and the Doctor Who movie (basically Pertwee through McGann). It also came with a copy of the Doctor Who Programme Guide, and twenty-three episodes of The Avengers.

    I’m sorry to butt in, but I just had to share!

    Sonic Edit: I checked the titles on each tape (they’re very well-labeled) against the Programme Guide, and it appears I have every story arc from Pertwee’s “Spearhead from Space” to McCoy’s “Survival”–with the notable exception of “The Talons of Weng-Chiang”. Tell me, is missing that one a good thing or a bad thing? I also started watching my first Pertwee tape–I like him! Between this and The Avengers, I may well overdose on cheap and ingenious special effects of decades past =P .

    (Oh, and “The Empty Child”/”The Doctor Dances”: Pretty damned good. Steven Moffat deserves riches heaped at his feet for writing like this. It’s just complex enough, and it comes together at the end without a merry parade of loose ends flapping about. I know it’s unfair to be unable to write a wall of text for the good episodes; but then, when it’s this good, what can I say? And I promise that next time I see it, which I think is next week because local PBS programming schedules are drawn up by concussed orangutans, I’ll give “Father’s Day” a second chance.)

    #123711
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    >with the notable exception of ?The Talons of Weng-Chiang?. Tell me, is missing that one a good thing or a bad thing?

    Bad. Very bad. Perhaps the finest Classic Who story there is. Import the DVD if there’s no region 1 release.

    #123713

    Honestly, now, or in a leg-pulling sense? Not that it matters much; I don’t really care if the humor in my Doctor Who is intentional or not.

    Also, is it just me, the sound on my VHS tapes, or does Jon Pertwee have jeeyust a hint of a lisp? Not, I hasten to add, a “prefers the sexual attentions of the same gender” lisp, simply a minor speech impediment.

    #123715
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    He has a LOT of a lisp.

    By the way, you’re incredibly lucky. But brace yourself for some utter, utter crap among the brilliance ;-)

    #123716

    >He has a LOT of a lisp.

    I thought I’d noticed one.

    >By the way, you?re incredibly lucky.

    And don’t I know it! And me with my birthday on Thursday. My mother said she was this close to just deleting the email about this load of tapes. When I heard about this offer, you probably heard my yelp of delight across the Atlantic. (I’m only on the second tape yet. That’s up to “Inferno”. God bless obsessive PBS watchers who tape everything.)

    >But brace yourself for some utter, utter crap among the brilliance ;-)

    Well, that goes without saying. Good thing I don’t mind a certain amount of crap =) .

    Also: I like the New Who theme (or is it more correctly a sort of remix?) a lot; I adore the Classic Who theme even more by a factor of at least ten.

    #123718
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    >Honestly, now, or in a leg-pulling sense? Not that it matters much; I don?t really care if the humor in my Doctor Who is intentional or not.

    Honestly! It’s utterly brilliant; but watch out for the huge rat.

    #123719
    pfm
    Participant

    ‘Talons’ is bloody brilliant, definitely in the top five classics I’ve seen. It’s the ultimate period Who story IMO.

    #123747

    I think it’s fair to say that ‘The Sound of Drums’ kicked major amounts of bottom. One thing I don’t understand however is why The Master wants to kill everybody. Is he just bored?

    #123687

    Not long ago I was able to give “Father’s Day” a second chance. And I will admit that, despite my difficulties in identifying with Rose as a main character and her plight, it does hit all its emotional beats quite well (except for the bits regarding Rose’s mother, who, as I’ve mentioned, is dense as a black hole in this Whovian outing). Its sci-fi aspects, however, are still rather crap.

    #123756

    Aaaaand “Bad Wolf”. Bad something, at any rate. Soneone should keep RTD away from writing utensils, computers and anything else he might use to create more half-digested plot tangles like this except under the strict supervision of a cowriter. Because I have to complain to somebody, some highlights:

    – “You have got to be kidding me.” Much as I sympathise with the Doctor’s quote here, it reminded me of a tenet of decent writing: Having your story or characters acknowledge how outlandish or stupid some element of a story is doesn’t make it any more palatable, or less stupid. Do I watch Doctor Who so I can be treated to “Popular Game Shows and Televised ‘Reality’ Clusterfucks of British Television”? I do not.

    – “You really don’t want to know.” Wrong answer, Jack, but thanks for playing. The correct answer is “I didn’t even want to think about it, and now I have an image of Captain Jack’s Rectal Bag-O-Tricks seared indelibly into my imagination probably until the day I die, which it rather goes without saying I deeply resent.”

    – Again with the “brainless sheep” thing. God, Russell, give it a rest. It didn’t make sense the first time you whipped it out, and if anything it makes even less sense now. There’s a little bit of irony, isn’t there, in someone involved in making television shows using the show he makes to deliver a sledgehammer-subtle sermon about “Teh teevee makes peeple into stoopid sheepz”. At any rate, I’m sick of hearing it. Also note how (unless Part Two of this thing is very good indeed) the whole “I did this, I made them stupid sheeples, oh noes” angle appears to go for naught.

    – Hands up, those of you who actually believed Rose had snuffed it. Nobody? Yeah, me too. Maybe I’m just an old cynic, but something in my bones tells me a story like this wouldn’t actually kill anyone close to the Doctor at only the halfway point. Okay, maybe if it were an intelligent and daring script with a few tricks up its sleeve, it might, but really, who’s kidding who?

    – Golly gosh, isn’t it lucky the Doctor stole that “Deus Ex Machina” model TARDIS all those years ago? ‘Cos if it hadn’t “worked it out all by itself”, then wherever would he be, except maybe up a certain creek?

    – And finally, just in time to send off the season properly, Oh No, Daleks! Which isn’t making a whole lot of sense in light of everything else, but hey, it lets Christopher Eccleston’s Doctor get really loud and angry and intense (and slightly batshit loco), as is his wont.

    Lord, what a mess.

    Oh well. In other news: I’m just starting to like Tom Baker. He’s no Jon Pertwee, but he has a certain charm.

    #123757
    Andrew
    Participant

    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong…

    And I LOVE Jack’s hidden weapon. So ner.

    #123758
    pfm
    Participant

    I didn’t like Bad Wolf at first (mainly because Big Brother, Trinny and Susannah etc. were pretty fucking jarring to be in the series) but now it’s one of my favourites. Eccleston is just brilliant in it, as is Barrowman (pity Russell couldn’t think of anything for Jack to do in his series 3 episodes, apart from bringing about the Deus Ex Machina time reverse ending that is (and the stupid FUCKING reveal of who/what he becomes…). Also, Lynda-with-a-‘y’…why do the gorgeous ones always have to die??

    #123759
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Fun Fact: nobody who uses the phrase ‘deus ex machina’ as a criticism of something on the internet actually knows what the phrase ‘deus ex machina’ means.

    And I LOVE Jack?s hidden weapon

    Ooh, pardon.

    #123760

    >And I LOVE Jack?s hidden weapon. So ner.

    It’s funny on the surface, but–under what circumstances do you make plans that include a gun in your rectum? On the “oh, God, no” scale, it’s worse than the Doctor showering to elude his pursuers in “Spearhead from Space” (and I’ll have you know that’s pretty damned mind-scarring).

    So there =P .

    #123761
    Andrew
    Participant

    Under what circumstances do you travel through time and space in a police box?

    Jack’s just ‘that kinda guy’. Always armed, and always shoving stuff up his omnisexual arse. (Also, he’s not necessarily human, is he?)

    I think you have anal issues… (Insert standard poor-taste G&T joke here.)

    #123762

    >Fun Fact: nobody who uses the phrase ?deus ex machina? as a criticism of something on the internet actually knows what the phrase ?deus ex machina? means.

    Look, you…you. I’m smart. I’ve…I’ve read…books. Tons of books. With chapters and everything. If I didn’t know how to use that phrase, why, I’d of made a real fool of myself just there, is what I’d of done. And since I’m never wrong, clearly this is not so.

    So there. I’ve run rings around you logically.

    #123763
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > (pity Russell couldn?t think of anything for Jack to do in his series 3 episodes, apart from bringing about the Deus Ex Machina time reverse ending that is (and the stupid FUCKING reveal of who/what he becomes?).

    I take it you missed the bit about The Paradox Machine not only being set up in the first episode but becoming absolutely and utterly integral to the logic of the entire invasion, then? You may not have liked the ending or the way it reset too much stuff, but it’s not a deus ex machina, for fucking fuck’s sake. You sure you’ve not been spending too much time on OG?

    #123764
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Quite right.

    It made perfect bloody sense and it was perfectly bloody obvious. Do you really think they were going to continue with an Earth that wasn’t just post invasion but post-largely destroyed? We’re on a Red Dwarf forum for lords sake. Maybe they should have called it the “Make everything go back like it was” Machine” would that have helped?

    Now what’s puzzling me is how the earth is now. Because by sending everything back to 8:02 surely the whole world should have just watched the first contact sequence, has just seen some shiny ball things appear and wipe out the President of the US, only to have The Prime Minster get shot by his wife and die in the arms of some random bloke they’ve never seen.

    #123765
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >Soneone should keep RTD away from writing utensils, computers and anything else he might use to create more half-digested plot tangles like this except under the strict supervision of a cowriter.

    Lest we forget, RTD wrote :

    – Rose
    – The Parting Of The Ways
    – Doomsday
    – Smith and Jones
    – Gridlock
    – Utopia

    Not to mention The Second Coming, which is one of the best one-off television dramas of the last decade. He has his missteps, but he’s writing approximately three times as many episodes as any other writer, and plotting the series, and producing it. He may be no Moffat, but without him, Moffat wouldn’t even be writing Who. So I’m prepared to forgive him the odd New Earth or Aliens of London.

    #123766

    Um. I haven’t actually seen most of those (there’s only two there, it appears, from the season I’m watching, and I think I missed the first). I’m not saying he can’t get better as I see new episodes, but this one certainly isn’t that good.

    #123767
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >It made perfect bloody sense and it was perfectly bloody obvious. Do you really think they were going to continue with an Earth that wasn?t just post invasion but post-largely destroyed?

    Yeah, I think that was my problem with it. It was perfectly bloody obvious that RTD has seen one too many Voyager episodes and thought that it would be dramatic to stage armageddon if you have an escape clause already worked out. It may not be an example of deus ex machina, but it was bloody lazy.

    As for the episodes above, only Utopia really springs to mind as a solid episode…and that’s just on the strength of the last ten minutes.

    #123770
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Yeah right on Seb.

    I forgive him Gridlock for all those ;-)

    #123775
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I HATE CATHERINE FUCKING TATE. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE. HER NAME RHYMES WITH HATE, AND THAT IS WHAT I DO TO HER.

    HATE.

    #123776
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Doctor Who is ruined.

    #123780
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I wouldn’t say ruined, exactly… but whilst I really liked her performance in The Runaway Bride, not even I’m keen on 13 episodes of her. Back for a two-parter? I’d look forward to it. Back for a whole series? Pfffft.

    We’ll see, but I have a deep dark sense of foreboding about this.

    #123781

    I just spotted a Tom Baker pledge drive plug for public television–my copy of “Terror of the Zygons” has pledge breaks in it. It’s probably no big deal, but I thought that was mildly neato.

    #123782
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    They really have lost the plot with Tate. She shouted her way through the Christmas Special and the saving grace of that was her buggering off at the end. They drop Martha (and ignore the awesome potential of Sally Sparrow) and pick an awful comedian who relies on canned laughter to convince deadbeats that her show isn’t the biggest pile of shite on TV.

    #123784
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I was hoping I’d wake up to find this was all a bad dream.

    Fuck.

    I’m now looking forward to Torchwood more than Doctor Who.

    #123785
    Baz
    Participant

    Ah don’t like it!

    No, didn’t think much of that last episode. Nice to see Dobbie the House Elf getting more work though. Hands up all those who were whistling the “Force” theme at the cremation scene. I was half expecting rebel fighters to fly overhead launching fireworks. Hands up all those who smacked their own foreheads at the final scene and thought “Flash! Aaaaargh!”

    Catherine Tate? Bleah. Roll on the Sarah Jane Adventures.

    #123786
    John Hoare
    Participant

    They drop Martha (and ignore the awesome potential of Sally Sparrow) and pick an awful comedian who relies on canned laughter to convince deadbeats that her show isn?t the biggest pile of shite on TV.

    It’s not canned, though, is it? Isn’t it shot in front of/shown to an audience?

    I think The Catherine Tate Show is excerable – but I didn’t mind her in Who at all. For an episode. And I wouldn’t mind a guest part in Series 4. But she *really* doesn’t scream full-time companion to me – not even with the obvious changes that are going to be made to her character. And the more I think about it, the less happy I am.

    It’s important to remember that they haven’t dropped Martha as such, though – she’s in the last half of the series, I believe. She’s also in three episodes of Torchwood – and she couldn’t shoot both Torchwood and all 13 eps of Who. I reckon they actually think a lot of her – so much, in fact, that they want her in Torchwood to boot it up the arse slightly…

    #123787
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >It?s not canned, though, is it? Isn?t it shot in front of/shown to an audience?

    I’m really not sure. I’ve seen a few sketches and assumed it *must* be canned since it’s hard to imagine anyone could find it even remotely amusing.

    As for Martha going to Torchwood…We’ll see. It showed a lot of promise in its first episode but, aside from an interesting set-up for a daft finale, never really got going. At least with Martha in it, they have a likeable character.

    #123789
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    Catherine Tate is shit.

    Sorry I havent’ hardly watched any Who at all (sorry about that) but I dont’ need to be a fan to know that Catherine Tate is a really fucking bad idea.

    BOYCOTT THE SERIES, MAKE THEM CHANGE IT!

    #123790
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    and she’s got a face you just wanna slap…

    #123791

    I don’t mind Catherine Tate, and I liked her character in Runaway Bride, but I think Donna being the Doctors assistant for a whole series will get on my nerves.

    #123792
    pfm
    Participant

    Right right I KNOW that deus ex machina is where something in the story just appears out of nowhere as a get-out clause. I should have said reset button, I always just lump the two together. Maybe an example of Who using a deus ex machina is in the Cybermen 2-parter where the Doctor gets out of the cliffhanger by conveniently being able to blast the Cybes with the Tardis power cell, something pretty much out of the blue.

    #123796
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I’ll give you that one – while the power cell had been seen before, there was no indication whatsoever that it would be somehow capable of wiping out a dozen Cyberbastards. I’ve got no problem whatsoever with the reset button in LotTL, though. It make sense within the story – the Toclafane can only exist through a paradox, destroy the thing that created the paradox and they’ll be gone – and it makes sense dramatically too. You can’t have future contemporary Earth stories taking place on a decimated, post-apocalyptic world.

    #123797
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Yes, the more I think about the finale, the more the reset button doesn’t actually bother me.

    I think sitting through too much Voyager has probably made me over-sensitive to reset buttons.

    #123799
    pfm
    Participant

    The thing is, on something like Voyager, or any Trek series, it’s understandable that the infamous reset button would have to be pressed regularly. Otherwise you just couldn’t get through a 20+ episode season with the same sets and contracted cast. But on Who it’s easier for big changes to be made without the show dying.

    Unfortunately, Russell keeps writing himself into a corner with these big *OMG look millions of Insert Enemies!* moments, because we already know that the reset button HAS to be pushed because we know he won’t leave the Earth in a fucked up state. If it happened on another planet, for example, there would be no problem with leaving it devastated. Moffat proved that you can do an ‘everybody lives!’ ending without it feeling like a flimsy reset button moment.

    #123800
    Rad
    Participant

    Yeah, I had no problems with paradox machine ending. It helped that the characters involved still remember what happened. I was slightly annoyed that the fantastic Voyager episode ‘Year of Hell’ had the characters lose all knowledge of an entire year’s interesting character development. There was no way around it admittedly in that episode and I suppose having Annorax reunited with his wife was a satisfying enough conclusion. Though after seeing Janeway tested to her limits and sacrifing herself for the sake of the crew not happen can make the previous 85 minutes seem worthless.

    #123801
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    Interesting announcement about Tate. I feel sorry for the people who cant Fucking stand her. I can see what you dont like and that must be deeply annoying you all right now to the point of voodoo.

    Im not about to defend her appointment, I’m probably in agreement with the
    “Back for a whole series? Pfffft.” statement.

    But playing satan’s pit advocate for a moment, If series one and two had a theme of rose and whichever dr’s mutual feelings for each other and the tate christmas special was about loss, and series three had a theme about marthas unrequited feelings, then where does series four go with a companion theme?

    Maybe It’s a season about being stuck with someone you hate, the dr hating donna as much as you all hate tate, but he cant get rid of her, he keeps dropping her off on the worst planets and back in the worse time periods, and she keeps getting tortured and stuff, but then keeps popping back up in the tardis like she did before by magic and it ends with him asking the daleks nicely to exterminate her, and you could tune back in just for that maybe?

    Maybe after two growing into have a go hero sidekicks (three if you count mickey) It will be nice to have a crap horror film twisted ankle cliche style character around who never gets better at dealing with monsters, she could be the new teegan.

    Do you think dr who is going to go more comedy now with a comedian/actress cast? Maybe she will play a different comedy character each week.

    #123802
    Andrew
    Participant

    Maybe SHE picked up the Master’s ring and is evil. :-)

    #123803
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Maybe it might work. Sorry, I’ve been drinking. I hope Sinister Woman turns up in Torchwood, hopefully in her pants.

    #123819
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I was slightly annoyed that the fantastic Voyager episode ?Year of Hell? had the characters lose all knowledge of an entire year?s interesting character development. There was no way around it admittedly in that episode and I suppose having Annorax reunited with his wife was a satisfying enough conclusion. Though after seeing Janeway tested to her limits and sacrifing herself for the sake of the crew not happen can make the previous 85 minutes seem worthless.

    That was the reset button I least minded in Voyager, although it did cause the most fuss. But the reset button was intrinsic to the plot, there – it’s set up from the very first scene with Annorax.

    But I do wish YoH is how they’d done *all* of Voyager, rather than just being a two-parter…

    With regards to Tate – I certainly agree with Jonsmad that the setup of the reluctant companion (or at the very least an antagonistic one) would be great for Series 4, and the right time to do it. It’s just that I’m not convinced about it being Tate. She’s fine in small doses (and when she’s NOT. DOING. SKETCHES) – but I’m really worried about 13 episodes with her. I just don’t warm to her enough for that.

    #123825
    pfm
    Participant

    They’ve already got to know each other so there won’t be like an annoying/hate relationship going on. However, I get the feeling that she might be dragged reluctantly into an adventure because at the end of TRB she obviously didn’t want to be part of that world. Unless they get trapped AWAY from Earth, or at least early 21st Century Earth (several fanboys may openly weep with joy at that prospect) why wouldn’t he just drop her off again?

    I like the idea that SHE was the one that picked up the ring and is now posessed by The Master (or she’s become The Rani). That would merit bringing her back. It would be unexpected for her to turn out evil. It’d also explain why Martha needs to come back into it at all, she could be the one to figure out Donna’s evil (I’m sure you all CAN’T WAIT for the episode she returns and we get loads of jealous bitching like in School Reunion except this time it will be littered with Catherine Tate catchphrases, when Martha sees the Doctor’s taken another companion so quickly she’ll be like ‘what a fuckin’ liberty!’ the Doctor will say ‘well if it bothers you so much…’ and she’ll say ‘Look at my face, I AIN’T BOVVERED!!’ Or she’ll say she’s been hanging out with the Face of Boe (i.e. Jack in Torchwood) and the Doctor will say ‘Face…bovvered?’

    #123829
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    For a while I thought you were being serious. Tate will get enough hate as the companion, can you imagine how much worse it would be to have her camping it up as a villain?

    Also this idea of her being a reluctant companion trapped with The Doctor doesn’t seem that appealing. I know a lot of us try to purge Series VII & VIII from our memories but one of Kochanski’s worst characteristics in VII was that very same ‘I don’t want to be here’ (or even ‘I’m better than this’) attitude.

    Sure, a change from wide-eyed and loved up companions might be refreshing, but travelling with The Doctor is meant to be something people dream about. To watch anybody complain and begrudge the chance is unlikely to get the audience rooting for them.

    #123844

    I found me another Tom Baker PBS spot! Or more specifically, it’s exactly the same one that played during “Terror of the Zygons”, right down to the phone number on the screen having nothing whatsoever to do with the one that came out of Tom’s mouth. I almost get the feeling that it was all KCET could do to get even the one out of him, really, especially with the weak E.T.-related material he had to work with.

    #123934

    Soooo. One of my PBS stations has started showing the first season of new Who again, with “Rose”. And I’m trying to watch without bias, but I think I’m still too angry over “The Parting of the Ways”. (The less said about that, the better.)

    So I’m seeing the Nestene Consciousness and I’m thinking “meh, Pertwee’s Doctor did it so much better.” And I know it’s not fair to think that, but…”Parting of the Ways”, man, come on.

    #123936
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I fucking love The Parting of the Ways. What didn’t you like about it?

    I agree that the Nestene Consciousness stuff in Rose isn’t brilliant – not bad in any way, just not brilliant – but, then, the Nestene stuff isn’t really the heart of Rose at all. It’s not the important bit of the episode. The important it is stuff like:

    “Well, it might do you good. That shop was giving you airs and graces.”

    #123938

    Let’s start with Reset-Button Tyler accidentally discovering and then apparently swallowing the TARDIS’s Magic Center (yep, as the ep with the last of the fart monsters set up all too late, the Time Lords apparently invented magic) and spitting Make-It-Okay all over the bad guys, then the non-drama o-noes-teh-powarz-will-eat-you-up which provided a transparent excuse to pay off the (rather difficult to buy, I think) romantic tension with a snog.

    …On the bright side, I managed to formulate this opinion without swearing even once. I’m rather proud of myself for that.

    #123942
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Fancy a fuck?

    #123946
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Arlene, your opinions on the New Series rank among the wrongest ever to be expressed on the Internet. I still love you, though.

    #123947
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    *rubs hands*

    You just wait till she sees Gridcock.

    #123950
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    THE PARTING OF THE WAYS IS FUCKING EXCELLENT. NNNG! BEST REGENERATION EVER! NNNNNNGGGG!

    And I’m really not biased by the fact that my boss’ boyfriend directed it, because I thought that before I knew that. Seriously, though, it’s a fucking excellent finale. Better than the next two, anyway.

    >the Time Lords apparently invented magic

    No, but by harnessing a black hole, they gained power over the time vortex. Power that Rose uses to reverse things.

    #123951
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    …magic.

    Did Joe Aher…Ahear… did that Joe fella also direct ‘Strange’? Go on you’re nearer the IMDB than me.

    #123953
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Apparently so, yeah. Didn’t know about that one. Never saw it, like.

    #123954

    I mean, I’ll probably let it go eventually, on account of this is the same series that gave me “Dalek” and “The Empty Child”/”The Doctor Dances”, all of which I absolutely adore, and some episodes early on that I didn’t mind so much, like “The Unquiet Dead”, but it might take a little while.

    #123960
    pfm
    Participant

    The Rose Time Vortex stuff is so tame compared with the Dark Materials ripoff in Doomsday and everyone thinking one word in Last Of The Time Lords. The moment that defines Russell T Davies’s reign surely is the Doctor floating through the air saying ‘I’m so sorry’. It seems to me Russell is actually saying he’s sorry to the audience! It’s like ‘I’m sorry, I’m so sorry I couldn’t come up with anything else, don’t hit me!’

    #123961
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Interesting theory, but I’d say it was more a pre-emptive apology.

    #123986

    Just a thought: Has anyone here ever thought about something they wished they’d seen on Doctor Who, classic or not?

    A second thought: In the normal course of my Wikipedia-browsing, I discovered at the bottom of their page about Jon Pertwee a link to a place called jonpertwee.com. “Well, about damn time,” thought I to myself, “as the man is verifiably at least eleven kinds of undiluted awesome. This I should enjoy.”

    This, friends, is jonpertwee.com.

    I don’t want to say anything bad about it, I really, really, honestly and with all my heart don’t, because whoever made this (probably years and years ago) clearly adores the man’s work as much as I do; but…my entire scroll down the page was accompanied by one long, low moan of the kind I normally reserve for Piers Anthony novels, country music, Kryten penis jokes, and the attempt at romantic tension between the Ninth Doctor and Rose. And I have to remind you all that I found this link at Wikipedia, for crying out coitus. Is this the best the various interwebs have to offer the Third Doctor? Or is this just one more reason never to trust Wiki with any important information?

    I’m’a go sulk around whomix for a while and listen to some new downloads. That’ll make me feel better.

    #123989
    Phil
    Participant

    > Or is this just one more reason never to trust Wiki with any important information?

    This is always the case. Always. Even when it isn’t. THIS IS ALWAYS THE CASE.

    #123990
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    >http://www.jonpertwee.com/

    Bloody hell. I last saw a page like that in 1996.

    #123994

    Yeah. If I had some cash, I’d ask to take the URL off him, learn to design websites, and make something entirely new. With more content and a rather less “oh God my eyes” design.

    In other news–Jon Pertwee=awesome. Although I gather he wasn’t as keen on the Carry On series as others have been. Still, he’s awesomesauce.

    #124000
    John Hoare
    Participant

    “hideous Carry On series”? Gah, that’s a shame. I won’t let it affect my opinion of the guy – he was still amazing – but it’s always a shame to hear someone you love slag off something else you love, especially if they were in it. The Carry Ons were great, at least until near the end, but specifically, Carry On Cowboy is a brilliant, brilliant film – really well made and funny. Even Kenneth Williams liked it in his diaries, and he slagged them off most of the time too!

    Mind you, it’s not quite as disturbing as reading that Rob Grant likes Dead Ringers.

    #124002
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Erm, I quite like it too. Then again I like IT Crowd, Darkplace and Mock the Week.

    #124004
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Dead Ringers annoys me – because I *should* like it. The obsession with TV idents and presentation, the fact it’s big and colourful… But the material is SO weak, and John Culshaw is SO annoying, that I just can’t watch it.

    #124018

    Look look look! It’s nicer than that Jon Pertwee website. Which is, yes, the same as saying “better than repeated icepick stabs to both eyes”, but still. Someone cared about making this one, even if the design isn’t quite to my tastes. There is even a (suprisingly busy to me; even if he is popular, a lot of boards like this simply never get off the ground) messageboard. I wonder how much trouble I could get into by joining up there and using a Peter Davison avatar?

    #124028
    pfm
    Participant

    > and John Culshaw is SO annoying

    Yeah, really he only does about two good impressions, Tom Baker and Patrick Moore. Oh, and the Ozzy Osbourne one. OK, his Gervais one is alright too, but it’s not hard to do, it’s grinning all the time like a monkey (I know monkeys don’t neccessarily grin but…you know what I mean) and saying ‘yeah, I’m Ricky Gervais, obviously, yeah’. The impression isn’t even of Gervais, it’s of Gervais in character. His Blair is just a sort of camp voice with the Blair mannerisms. His Bush is just a generic American accent.

    And yes, Dead Ringers is written so BADLY. Can anyone actually write for shit anymore? BBC comedy shows are filled with episode after episode of mediocre to shit writing. My guess is that the second series of Saxondale will be the only BBC comedy this year that actually comes close to being good. Sadly, I don’t hold out much hope for the Peter Serafanowicz show, or the Omid Djalili (damn these comedian/actors and their hard-to-spell names!) sketch show for that matter, but I’ll certainly give them a chance.

    #124036
    Phil
    Participant

    >second series of Saxondale

    Has anyone heard of a series one DVD release date? I know Coogan recorded commentary, but that’s the last I heard.

    #124040

    I can’t remember where I picked the link up from originally (although I suspect it was something I saw while looking through Outpost Gallifrey), but I can’t be the only one around here who frequents whomix.

    If you do, go and download “Who Am I”. Now. Please? You’ll be doing yourself a favor, really. (“The Doctor’s Dream”, “Sleepless Night in Tardis” and “Dimensionally Transcendental” are also favorites of mine, but the first one I mentioned should be top priority.)

    I’ll try and shut up about Doctor Who after this post, honestly I will.

    #124058
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Hah, we were wondering at the weekend if you’d discover that at some point. Ian’s just got a CD featuring various random, weird and tripped-out Who related tracks from the ’60s, and that song is – of course – the centrepiece…

    #124059

    I’d discovered Whomix a while ago–I didn’t know until recently if anyone else here had, however. I have a CD-R I’ve been filling with Doctor Who mixes and video game music remixes from OCRemix.

    I’m also a member of Tom Baker’s official board too. I hope they accept me even though I dont fantasize about the Fourth Doctor nearly so much as they do =P …

    #124060
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    > video game music remixes from OCRemix

    OOh! I’m in the process of working on some stuff for that site soon!!

    Sorry, Digressing the thread.

    You may discuss Dr. Who again….

    …….. I HAVE SPOKEN!

    #124062

    You do stuff for OCRemix? I’d of never guessed, honestly. Neato!

    To get this back on topic, you ever try to make a Doctor Who theme mix?

    #124063
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I could try I suppose, but I have a mountain of projects on at the moment. So we’ll see…

    #124372
    pfm
    Participant

    I watched Father’s Day again the other day when it was on BBC3.

    Even though I’m an utter dick because all I can think about when watching it is inane stuff like the fact that Eccleston was half-dying of a cold when they were doing the church scenes, and picturing the crew running around with those boom cameras to get those cheesy monster overhead shots, and the fact that the CG was so much poorer than it got by series 3 (AND the fact that they blatantly reused the Reaper CG for the Krillitane(sp) in School Reunion), I admit that the episode still brings me to tears like the pussy fuck I truly am.

    You’ve got to admit it’s one of the best episodes. Right now I can’t think of a better one. Yeah yeah there are contenders (Girl In The Fireplace, Dalek, Human Nature), but as far as single episodes go, this IMO is the best out of the three series’. Eccleston and Piper are on fire, and the guy who plays Pete Tyler (Shaun something, dammit I’ve forgotten) who is like the opposite to Jackie in that he plays it naturally unlike Camille Courdoi (or whatever it is) who hams up every line she delivers.

    The pacing of the episode is perfect (why can they only get this right once in a blue moon?) as is the writing. The image/idea I like most is the car appearing and disappearing on the corner, ‘waiting’ for Pete to step in front of it in order to put things right. Perhaps it’s a sketchy sci-fi idea but it’s handled VERY well. What’s good is that the Doctor looks at the car and obviously knows what needs to happen but doesn’t say anything. Paul Cornell seems to be really into humanizing the Doctor. He subtley references his own story, Human Nature, in this by having the Doctor longing for a ‘normal’ life. Maybe they always knew he was going to eventually adapt his book.

    #124373
    Andrew
    Participant

    > You?ve got to admit it?s one of the best episodes.

    Well I don’t. But I will. Top third of New Who, anyway.

    One of my all-time favourite moments of TV ever: The Doctor opens the TARDIS door to find…it’s just a blue box. It’s genius because it makes us all gasp despite being exactly what happens on the fucking set every day. And the reaction’s played perfectly. Just brilliant.

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