Doctor Who II

[Pete Part Three]

They really have lost the plot with Tate. She shouted her way through the Christmas Special and the saving grace of that was her buggering off at the end. They drop Martha (and ignore the awesome potential of Sally Sparrow) and pick an awful comedian who relies on canned laughter to convince deadbeats that her show isn’t the biggest pile of shite on TV.

[Ian Symes]

I was hoping I’d wake up to find this was all a bad dream.

Fuck.

I’m now looking forward to Torchwood more than Doctor Who.

[Baz]

Ah don’t like it!

No, didn’t think much of that last episode. Nice to see Dobbie the House Elf getting more work though. Hands up all those who were whistling the “Force” theme at the cremation scene. I was half expecting rebel fighters to fly overhead launching fireworks. Hands up all those who smacked their own foreheads at the final scene and thought “Flash! Aaaaargh!”

Catherine Tate? Bleah. Roll on the Sarah Jane Adventures.

[John Hoare]

They drop Martha (and ignore the awesome potential of Sally Sparrow) and pick an awful comedian who relies on canned laughter to convince deadbeats that her show isn?t the biggest pile of shite on TV.

It’s not canned, though, is it? Isn’t it shot in front of/shown to an audience?

I think The Catherine Tate Show is excerable – but I didn’t mind her in Who at all. For an episode. And I wouldn’t mind a guest part in Series 4. But she *really* doesn’t scream full-time companion to me – not even with the obvious changes that are going to be made to her character. And the more I think about it, the less happy I am.

It’s important to remember that they haven’t dropped Martha as such, though – she’s in the last half of the series, I believe. She’s also in three episodes of Torchwood – and she couldn’t shoot both Torchwood and all 13 eps of Who. I reckon they actually think a lot of her – so much, in fact, that they want her in Torchwood to boot it up the arse slightly…

[Pete Part Three]

>It?s not canned, though, is it? Isn?t it shot in front of/shown to an audience?

I’m really not sure. I’ve seen a few sketches and assumed it *must* be canned since it’s hard to imagine anyone could find it even remotely amusing.

As for Martha going to Torchwood…We’ll see. It showed a lot of promise in its first episode but, aside from an interesting set-up for a daft finale, never really got going. At least with Martha in it, they have a likeable character.

[Danny Stephenson]

Catherine Tate is shit.

Sorry I havent’ hardly watched any Who at all (sorry about that) but I dont’ need to be a fan to know that Catherine Tate is a really fucking bad idea.

BOYCOTT THE SERIES, MAKE THEM CHANGE IT!

[Danny Stephenson]

and she’s got a face you just wanna slap…

[Jason aka Smeg4Brains]

I don’t mind Catherine Tate, and I liked her character in Runaway Bride, but I think Donna being the Doctors assistant for a whole series will get on my nerves.

[pfm]

Right right I KNOW that deus ex machina is where something in the story just appears out of nowhere as a get-out clause. I should have said reset button, I always just lump the two together. Maybe an example of Who using a deus ex machina is in the Cybermen 2-parter where the Doctor gets out of the cliffhanger by conveniently being able to blast the Cybes with the Tardis power cell, something pretty much out of the blue.

[Ian Symes]

I’ll give you that one – while the power cell had been seen before, there was no indication whatsoever that it would be somehow capable of wiping out a dozen Cyberbastards. I’ve got no problem whatsoever with the reset button in LotTL, though. It make sense within the story – the Toclafane can only exist through a paradox, destroy the thing that created the paradox and they’ll be gone – and it makes sense dramatically too. You can’t have future contemporary Earth stories taking place on a decimated, post-apocalyptic world.

[John Hoare]

Yes, the more I think about the finale, the more the reset button doesn’t actually bother me.

I think sitting through too much Voyager has probably made me over-sensitive to reset buttons.

[pfm]

The thing is, on something like Voyager, or any Trek series, it’s understandable that the infamous reset button would have to be pressed regularly. Otherwise you just couldn’t get through a 20+ episode season with the same sets and contracted cast. But on Who it’s easier for big changes to be made without the show dying.

Unfortunately, Russell keeps writing himself into a corner with these big *OMG look millions of Insert Enemies!* moments, because we already know that the reset button HAS to be pushed because we know he won’t leave the Earth in a fucked up state. If it happened on another planet, for example, there would be no problem with leaving it devastated. Moffat proved that you can do an ‘everybody lives!’ ending without it feeling like a flimsy reset button moment.

[Rad]

Yeah, I had no problems with paradox machine ending. It helped that the characters involved still remember what happened. I was slightly annoyed that the fantastic Voyager episode ‘Year of Hell’ had the characters lose all knowledge of an entire year’s interesting character development. There was no way around it admittedly in that episode and I suppose having Annorax reunited with his wife was a satisfying enough conclusion. Though after seeing Janeway tested to her limits and sacrifing herself for the sake of the crew not happen can make the previous 85 minutes seem worthless.

[Jonsmad]

Interesting announcement about Tate. I feel sorry for the people who cant Fucking stand her. I can see what you dont like and that must be deeply annoying you all right now to the point of voodoo.

Im not about to defend her appointment, I’m probably in agreement with the
“Back for a whole series? Pfffft.” statement.

But playing satan’s pit advocate for a moment, If series one and two had a theme of rose and whichever dr’s mutual feelings for each other and the tate christmas special was about loss, and series three had a theme about marthas unrequited feelings, then where does series four go with a companion theme?

Maybe It’s a season about being stuck with someone you hate, the dr hating donna as much as you all hate tate, but he cant get rid of her, he keeps dropping her off on the worst planets and back in the worse time periods, and she keeps getting tortured and stuff, but then keeps popping back up in the tardis like she did before by magic and it ends with him asking the daleks nicely to exterminate her, and you could tune back in just for that maybe?

Maybe after two growing into have a go hero sidekicks (three if you count mickey) It will be nice to have a crap horror film twisted ankle cliche style character around who never gets better at dealing with monsters, she could be the new teegan.

Do you think dr who is going to go more comedy now with a comedian/actress cast? Maybe she will play a different comedy character each week.

[Andrew]

Maybe SHE picked up the Master’s ring and is evil. :-)

[Tarka Dal]

Maybe it might work. Sorry, I’ve been drinking. I hope Sinister Woman turns up in Torchwood, hopefully in her pants.

[John Hoare]

I was slightly annoyed that the fantastic Voyager episode ?Year of Hell? had the characters lose all knowledge of an entire year?s interesting character development. There was no way around it admittedly in that episode and I suppose having Annorax reunited with his wife was a satisfying enough conclusion. Though after seeing Janeway tested to her limits and sacrifing herself for the sake of the crew not happen can make the previous 85 minutes seem worthless.

That was the reset button I least minded in Voyager, although it did cause the most fuss. But the reset button was intrinsic to the plot, there – it’s set up from the very first scene with Annorax.

But I do wish YoH is how they’d done *all* of Voyager, rather than just being a two-parter…

With regards to Tate – I certainly agree with Jonsmad that the setup of the reluctant companion (or at the very least an antagonistic one) would be great for Series 4, and the right time to do it. It’s just that I’m not convinced about it being Tate. She’s fine in small doses (and when she’s NOT. DOING. SKETCHES) – but I’m really worried about 13 episodes with her. I just don’t warm to her enough for that.

[pfm]

They’ve already got to know each other so there won’t be like an annoying/hate relationship going on. However, I get the feeling that she might be dragged reluctantly into an adventure because at the end of TRB she obviously didn’t want to be part of that world. Unless they get trapped AWAY from Earth, or at least early 21st Century Earth (several fanboys may openly weep with joy at that prospect) why wouldn’t he just drop her off again?

I like the idea that SHE was the one that picked up the ring and is now posessed by The Master (or she’s become The Rani). That would merit bringing her back. It would be unexpected for her to turn out evil. It’d also explain why Martha needs to come back into it at all, she could be the one to figure out Donna’s evil (I’m sure you all CAN’T WAIT for the episode she returns and we get loads of jealous bitching like in School Reunion except this time it will be littered with Catherine Tate catchphrases, when Martha sees the Doctor’s taken another companion so quickly she’ll be like ‘what a fuckin’ liberty!’ the Doctor will say ‘well if it bothers you so much…’ and she’ll say ‘Look at my face, I AIN’T BOVVERED!!’ Or she’ll say she’s been hanging out with the Face of Boe (i.e. Jack in Torchwood) and the Doctor will say ‘Face…bovvered?’

[Tarka Dal]

For a while I thought you were being serious. Tate will get enough hate as the companion, can you imagine how much worse it would be to have her camping it up as a villain?

Also this idea of her being a reluctant companion trapped with The Doctor doesn’t seem that appealing. I know a lot of us try to purge Series VII & VIII from our memories but one of Kochanski’s worst characteristics in VII was that very same ‘I don’t want to be here’ (or even ‘I’m better than this’) attitude.

Sure, a change from wide-eyed and loved up companions might be refreshing, but travelling with The Doctor is meant to be something people dream about. To watch anybody complain and begrudge the chance is unlikely to get the audience rooting for them.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I found me another Tom Baker PBS spot! Or more specifically, it’s exactly the same one that played during “Terror of the Zygons”, right down to the phone number on the screen having nothing whatsoever to do with the one that came out of Tom’s mouth. I almost get the feeling that it was all KCET could do to get even the one out of him, really, especially with the weak E.T.-related material he had to work with.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Soooo. One of my PBS stations has started showing the first season of new Who again, with “Rose”. And I’m trying to watch without bias, but I think I’m still too angry over “The Parting of the Ways”. (The less said about that, the better.)

So I’m seeing the Nestene Consciousness and I’m thinking “meh, Pertwee’s Doctor did it so much better.” And I know it’s not fair to think that, but…”Parting of the Ways”, man, come on.

[John Hoare]

I fucking love The Parting of the Ways. What didn’t you like about it?

I agree that the Nestene Consciousness stuff in Rose isn’t brilliant – not bad in any way, just not brilliant – but, then, the Nestene stuff isn’t really the heart of Rose at all. It’s not the important bit of the episode. The important it is stuff like:

“Well, it might do you good. That shop was giving you airs and graces.”

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Let’s start with Reset-Button Tyler accidentally discovering and then apparently swallowing the TARDIS’s Magic Center (yep, as the ep with the last of the fart monsters set up all too late, the Time Lords apparently invented magic) and spitting Make-It-Okay all over the bad guys, then the non-drama o-noes-teh-powarz-will-eat-you-up which provided a transparent excuse to pay off the (rather difficult to buy, I think) romantic tension with a snog.

…On the bright side, I managed to formulate this opinion without swearing even once. I’m rather proud of myself for that.

[Tarka Dal]

Fancy a fuck?

[Jonathan Capps]

Arlene, your opinions on the New Series rank among the wrongest ever to be expressed on the Internet. I still love you, though.

[Tarka Dal]

*rubs hands*

You just wait till she sees Gridcock.

[Seb Patrick]

THE PARTING OF THE WAYS IS FUCKING EXCELLENT. NNNG! BEST REGENERATION EVER! NNNNNNGGGG!

And I’m really not biased by the fact that my boss’ boyfriend directed it, because I thought that before I knew that. Seriously, though, it’s a fucking excellent finale. Better than the next two, anyway.

>the Time Lords apparently invented magic

No, but by harnessing a black hole, they gained power over the time vortex. Power that Rose uses to reverse things.

[Tarka Dal]

…magic.

Did Joe Aher…Ahear… did that Joe fella also direct ‘Strange’? Go on you’re nearer the IMDB than me.

[Seb Patrick]

Apparently so, yeah. Didn’t know about that one. Never saw it, like.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I mean, I’ll probably let it go eventually, on account of this is the same series that gave me “Dalek” and “The Empty Child”/”The Doctor Dances”, all of which I absolutely adore, and some episodes early on that I didn’t mind so much, like “The Unquiet Dead”, but it might take a little while.

[pfm]

The Rose Time Vortex stuff is so tame compared with the Dark Materials ripoff in Doomsday and everyone thinking one word in Last Of The Time Lords. The moment that defines Russell T Davies’s reign surely is the Doctor floating through the air saying ‘I’m so sorry’. It seems to me Russell is actually saying he’s sorry to the audience! It’s like ‘I’m sorry, I’m so sorry I couldn’t come up with anything else, don’t hit me!’

[Tarka Dal]

Interesting theory, but I’d say it was more a pre-emptive apology.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Just a thought: Has anyone here ever thought about something they wished they’d seen on Doctor Who, classic or not?

A second thought: In the normal course of my Wikipedia-browsing, I discovered at the bottom of their page about Jon Pertwee a link to a place called jonpertwee.com. “Well, about damn time,” thought I to myself, “as the man is verifiably at least eleven kinds of undiluted awesome. This I should enjoy.”

This, friends, is jonpertwee.com.

I don’t want to say anything bad about it, I really, really, honestly and with all my heart don’t, because whoever made this (probably years and years ago) clearly adores the man’s work as much as I do; but…my entire scroll down the page was accompanied by one long, low moan of the kind I normally reserve for Piers Anthony novels, country music, Kryten penis jokes, and the attempt at romantic tension between the Ninth Doctor and Rose. And I have to remind you all that I found this link at Wikipedia, for crying out coitus. Is this the best the various interwebs have to offer the Third Doctor? Or is this just one more reason never to trust Wiki with any important information?

I’m’a go sulk around whomix for a while and listen to some new downloads. That’ll make me feel better.

[Phil]

> Or is this just one more reason never to trust Wiki with any important information?

This is always the case. Always. Even when it isn’t. THIS IS ALWAYS THE CASE.

[Tanya Jones]

>http://www.jonpertwee.com/

Bloody hell. I last saw a page like that in 1996.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Yeah. If I had some cash, I’d ask to take the URL off him, learn to design websites, and make something entirely new. With more content and a rather less “oh God my eyes” design.

In other news–Jon Pertwee=awesome. Although I gather he wasn’t as keen on the Carry On series as others have been. Still, he’s awesomesauce.

[John Hoare]

“hideous Carry On series”? Gah, that’s a shame. I won’t let it affect my opinion of the guy – he was still amazing – but it’s always a shame to hear someone you love slag off something else you love, especially if they were in it. The Carry Ons were great, at least until near the end, but specifically, Carry On Cowboy is a brilliant, brilliant film – really well made and funny. Even Kenneth Williams liked it in his diaries, and he slagged them off most of the time too!

Mind you, it’s not quite as disturbing as reading that Rob Grant likes Dead Ringers.

[Tarka Dal]

Erm, I quite like it too. Then again I like IT Crowd, Darkplace and Mock the Week.

[John Hoare]

Dead Ringers annoys me – because I *should* like it. The obsession with TV idents and presentation, the fact it’s big and colourful… But the material is SO weak, and John Culshaw is SO annoying, that I just can’t watch it.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Look look look! It’s nicer than that Jon Pertwee website. Which is, yes, the same as saying “better than repeated icepick stabs to both eyes”, but still. Someone cared about making this one, even if the design isn’t quite to my tastes. There is even a (suprisingly busy to me; even if he is popular, a lot of boards like this simply never get off the ground) messageboard. I wonder how much trouble I could get into by joining up there and using a Peter Davison avatar?

[pfm]

> and John Culshaw is SO annoying

Yeah, really he only does about two good impressions, Tom Baker and Patrick Moore. Oh, and the Ozzy Osbourne one. OK, his Gervais one is alright too, but it’s not hard to do, it’s grinning all the time like a monkey (I know monkeys don’t neccessarily grin but…you know what I mean) and saying ‘yeah, I’m Ricky Gervais, obviously, yeah’. The impression isn’t even of Gervais, it’s of Gervais in character. His Blair is just a sort of camp voice with the Blair mannerisms. His Bush is just a generic American accent.

And yes, Dead Ringers is written so BADLY. Can anyone actually write for shit anymore? BBC comedy shows are filled with episode after episode of mediocre to shit writing. My guess is that the second series of Saxondale will be the only BBC comedy this year that actually comes close to being good. Sadly, I don’t hold out much hope for the Peter Serafanowicz show, or the Omid Djalili (damn these comedian/actors and their hard-to-spell names!) sketch show for that matter, but I’ll certainly give them a chance.

[Phil]

>second series of Saxondale

Has anyone heard of a series one DVD release date? I know Coogan recorded commentary, but that’s the last I heard.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I can’t remember where I picked the link up from originally (although I suspect it was something I saw while looking through Outpost Gallifrey), but I can’t be the only one around here who frequents whomix.

If you do, go and download “Who Am I”. Now. Please? You’ll be doing yourself a favor, really. (“The Doctor’s Dream”, “Sleepless Night in Tardis” and “Dimensionally Transcendental” are also favorites of mine, but the first one I mentioned should be top priority.)

I’ll try and shut up about Doctor Who after this post, honestly I will.

[Seb Patrick]

Hah, we were wondering at the weekend if you’d discover that at some point. Ian’s just got a CD featuring various random, weird and tripped-out Who related tracks from the ’60s, and that song is – of course – the centrepiece…

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I’d discovered Whomix a while ago–I didn’t know until recently if anyone else here had, however. I have a CD-R I’ve been filling with Doctor Who mixes and video game music remixes from OCRemix.

I’m also a member of Tom Baker’s official board too. I hope they accept me even though I dont fantasize about the Fourth Doctor nearly so much as they do =P …

[Danny Stephenson]

> video game music remixes from OCRemix

OOh! I’m in the process of working on some stuff for that site soon!!

Sorry, Digressing the thread.

You may discuss Dr. Who again….

…….. I HAVE SPOKEN!

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

You do stuff for OCRemix? I’d of never guessed, honestly. Neato!

To get this back on topic, you ever try to make a Doctor Who theme mix?

[Danny Stephenson]

I could try I suppose, but I have a mountain of projects on at the moment. So we’ll see…

[pfm]

I watched Father’s Day again the other day when it was on BBC3.

Even though I’m an utter dick because all I can think about when watching it is inane stuff like the fact that Eccleston was half-dying of a cold when they were doing the church scenes, and picturing the crew running around with those boom cameras to get those cheesy monster overhead shots, and the fact that the CG was so much poorer than it got by series 3 (AND the fact that they blatantly reused the Reaper CG for the Krillitane(sp) in School Reunion), I admit that the episode still brings me to tears like the pussy fuck I truly am.

You’ve got to admit it’s one of the best episodes. Right now I can’t think of a better one. Yeah yeah there are contenders (Girl In The Fireplace, Dalek, Human Nature), but as far as single episodes go, this IMO is the best out of the three series’. Eccleston and Piper are on fire, and the guy who plays Pete Tyler (Shaun something, dammit I’ve forgotten) who is like the opposite to Jackie in that he plays it naturally unlike Camille Courdoi (or whatever it is) who hams up every line she delivers.

The pacing of the episode is perfect (why can they only get this right once in a blue moon?) as is the writing. The image/idea I like most is the car appearing and disappearing on the corner, ‘waiting’ for Pete to step in front of it in order to put things right. Perhaps it’s a sketchy sci-fi idea but it’s handled VERY well. What’s good is that the Doctor looks at the car and obviously knows what needs to happen but doesn’t say anything. Paul Cornell seems to be really into humanizing the Doctor. He subtley references his own story, Human Nature, in this by having the Doctor longing for a ‘normal’ life. Maybe they always knew he was going to eventually adapt his book.

[Andrew]

> You?ve got to admit it?s one of the best episodes.

Well I don’t. But I will. Top third of New Who, anyway.

One of my all-time favourite moments of TV ever: The Doctor opens the TARDIS door to find…it’s just a blue box. It’s genius because it makes us all gasp despite being exactly what happens on the fucking set every day. And the reaction’s played perfectly. Just brilliant.

[Author]

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