Doctor Who – Series 11

[Dave]

Worth a discussion thread?

We’re just watching Capaldi’s regeneration into Whittaker as part of our build-up to tonight’s episode. Such a great scene.

Topic

[tombow]

I just watched the end of New Earth (early Tennant episode with hospital zombies) on youtube – I thought he filled up a water gun with the cure and ran around spraying it, instead of just putting it into a sprinkler? I’m sure I remember a scene like that. Maybe I’m remembering something else.

[Ben Saunders]

Mandela effect, clearly.

I didn’t rate Series 9 that highly either, outside of the first two and last three episodes. The zygon episode was decent but not outstanding I thought, the one with the deaf girl was boring, and I can’t remember the other ones. Oh there was Sleep No More… an episode which if it appeared in this current season would be a highlight…. but was in the top 5 worst New Whos before then

I don’t know where noncey jape came from but I stand by it.

[Warbodog]

I don’t react out loud very much to TV, even in company – just laugh, groan, voice approval. But when I realised what was going on in that series 9 episode that I don’t want to spoil for tombow, I went mental, shouting and pacing the room. The magnitude!

Other things I’ve had strong reactions to include ‘Trojan’ – the euphoria of new Red Dwarf being good! – and the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field – dude.

[Paul Muller]

POLY MORPH

The crew enter into an open sexual relationship with a plasticine man.

[Paul Muller]

Shit, posted that in the wrong thread.

[Hamish]

> The crew enter into an open sexual relationship with a plasticine man.

Next weeks episode leaked, obviously.

[Lily]

Just got around to watching this week. Good period stuff, interesting mystery, interesting witch finding stuff, whole team feeling useful, it was on the whole a really good episode. Loved Alan Cumming hamming it up as King James.

Until the shouty alien turned up. Then it all got rather silly. I’m not a fan of the whole shouting to make things scary. I’d rather be scared by actions, not volume of voice.

Out of interest, are the writers this year all new to Who?

[tombow]

according to IMDB, yeah, none of them have written who before

[Ridley]

60% of the episodes have been penned by someone who has written for the show before.

Or had Who forgotten?

[tombow]

Other than Chibbers though?

[Ben Saunders]

I mean yeah Chibnall hired all new writers but he isn’t a new writer himself. New directors I think also. And producer, etc.

[Lily]

Well yes, I did mean other than Chibnall. If everyone else is new though, that might help explain that feeling of “almost, but not quite” that I’m getting on every episode. Would certainly be a reason why so often the alien of the weekend feels a little crowbarred into a story that didn’t need one had it not been Doctor Who.

What determines a show as a success though; the quantity of the general public watching it, or the opinions of the fans?

[tombow]

according to the internet “many credible rumors” say that JW and CC are going to move on next year after a 6 episode half series. Be interesting to see if this comes about. Personally I’d like to see JW come into the role for longer.

[Ben Saunders]

If that rumour is true, my disappointment with Chibnall will turn into actual anger. Takes a year off to make the series as good as possible, it ends up being shite, slashes the number of episodes to ten because it’s too hard, most likely seeing a precedent going forward. Then (if the rumours are true) slashes the number of episodes to a measly six and fucks off right after. I would be livid. Everybody else managed to do thirteen episodes of varying quality and if we get six shite ones I’ll wonder why he even bothered taking the job in the first place.

But hopefully that won’t transpire and I’ll just continue to be disappointed

[Ben Saunders]

Regarding what counts as success: definitely general popularity against actual quality (in the eyes of fans). Most people who call themselves fans that I know of loved the Capaldi era but the general feeling I get from the public is that it was a failure. Than of course you have many shows with strong but small fanbases (Star Trek, Firefly, Chuck) getting cancelled because nobody watched the (quality) episodes. Instead we’re on to the seventh season of The Walking Dead.

[bloodteller]

And the fourteenth season of Supernatural

[Warbodog]

Back in the Red part 1 got over 8 million viewers and that’s the best episode of Red Dwarf, so sometimes it can be both.

[Warbodog]

I don’t really know what the Audience Appreciation Index is, but the general public thought fan favourite Heaven Sent was among the five worst episodes of Nu Who (series 1-10) and they love Dalek finales the best (the ace library two-parter is also near the top, so they’re not complete simpletons).

[Ben Saunders]

>the general public thought fan favourite Heaven Sent was among the five worst episodes of Nu Who
Now, I’m not the type to ever use the word “plebs”, but if I ever had to….
Heaven Sent has, I think, the highest IMDB score of all Doctor Whos ever, alongside Blink and Caves of Androzani, so there’s that at least.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I really can’t see that rumour being true … the BBC would be just as pissed at him as fans would be. And wouldn’t he be contracted for at least two or three series so a potential new show runner couldn’t do what has been rumoured?

Also, last I heard, he had a 5 year plan for the show … which, if 5 year plans for other shows are anything to go by will mean it will start out a bit shit, start to get really good and then be cancelled before it can be finished

[Dave]

The way things have been lately, a five-year plan could end up only being two-and-a-half series.

[Ben Saunders]

The five year plan could include cancelling it in the second year

[Lily]

The 5 year plan only included 3 series anyway, with 18 month gaps. But because this series has done so well on Sunday nights, the BBC now want a series every year. But Chibnall doesn’t want to do that much, so is going to half-arse one for them next year then fuck off, with Whittaker going with him.

Allegedly.

[tombow]

Got the Missy stories book out of the library and enjoying it

[Dave]

Forever to be known as “the talking frog one”.

[Pete Part Three]

And it was doing so well at identifying itself as “the actually good sci-fi drama one”. OK, it wasn’t amazingly original but the execution was sharp and it was holding my attention when so much of this series has had me lose interest shy of the twenty minute mark.

And then there was the scene with the frog.

I’ll let them off though, as when the camera focused on the carving on the wall at the finale, I was back on board. More like this, PLEASE.

[NoFro]

The frog was great. The episode was great.

[Dave]

Oh, I liked the frog and quite enjoyed the episode in general.

The only real problem was the Doctor suddenly pulling the explanation out of nowhere, halfway through the episode, seemingly based on very little evidence – and then turning out to be completely right in her guess.

It made me think another twist was coming and she was going to be revealed as wrong about what was going on.

[NoFro]

Also, I couldn’t help but think of the Kochanski/Lister stuff from Back to Earth during this one.

[si]

The Frog could have been so much better even if they’d only CGI’d the mouth to give it the ability to form words. That’s all it needed. A bit of a polish, maybe, but just the mouth would’ve been fine.
The episode itself though was intriguing. Some crazy ass shit going on in there. Looked great. The ‘cave’ was wonderfully atmospheric.

[Warbodog]

That was probably my favourite episode since 2015, weird incongruous frog climax and all.

I lasted almost nine episodes before having a Thirteenth Doctor erotic dream, how did you do?

[Warbodog]

The only real problem was the Doctor suddenly pulling the explanation out of nowhere, halfway through the episode, seemingly based on very little evidence – and then turning out to be completely right in her guess.

“Best guess,”

[Stephen Abootman]

TV needs more Kevin Eldon on it.

[RamesesNiblickTheThird]

What a shit show. Literally.

OP should have added the poo icon to the title like Jawscvmcdia.

Rest the series and give us some movies.

[Warbodog]

Jawscvmcdia’s new forum flair is the most significant Red Dwarf event of 2018.

[Warbodog]

…which was a jab at the lack of 30th anniversary merchandise and not the massive Dimension Jump event. Feel free to flair me appropriately.

[Captain No-Name]

The Frog could have been so much better even if they’d only CGI’d the mouth to give it the ability to form words. That’s all it needed. A bit of a polish, maybe, but just the mouth would’ve been fine.

I do wonder if it’s just the mouth that spoiled it for some people. A CGI mouth would be one solution, albeit possibly too expensive and time consuming to do well.

If I’d been the director, my inclination would’ve been to film a real frog against green screen, and just have an echoey reverb on the voice, to suggest it was communicating telepathically.

Admittedly, this wouldn’t satisfy the viewers who were upset by the camp silliness of the image of a sentient universe manifesting as a talking frog on a chair… but those people are probably watching the wrong show.

[Lily]

Well that was a bit bloody brilliant. Even the frog.

OK so the Doctor pulled the explanation for what’s going on out of her arse a bit, but in all honesty that’s almost a feature of Who anyway. I can totally live with that.

Everything else was just great! We’ll have more of that thank you very much.

[Ben Saunders]

Everything to do with Graham was excellent, there was a genuine mystery set up, things were generally at least a little interesting… but again, Tosin Cole can’t act, the dialogue is abhorrent and the whole thing is just a bit amateurish. It’s written like a Big Finish audio play – the characters announce what they see a lot, when several scenes this episode could have been accomplished in a much more effective and engaging way with little to no dialogue. Show, don’t tell.

Talking frog was just too silly and took the wind out of my enjoyment of the episode. It’s the way it comes out of nowhere, has the nan’s voice and the mouth doesn’t move properly, and especially how it does that stupid hand movement when it uses the force to push the Doctor back (to where, might I add, the mirror was long gone).

I’m fine with camp in Who, but it was tonally off for what they were trying to do and the campness wasn’t properly established earlier on, it’s a total shift of mood and turns what could have been a pretty powerful scene ridiculous. I’m reminded of Meglos, in which the villain was A Cactus, but at least in that we’re introduced pretty early on to the villain being a cactus and it is initially played for laughs before then showing us it’s all a bit more sinister than we give it credit for. It’s still pretty silly, though.

So much of the dialogue in that episode was genuinely annoying, with the “hey look, an x”, the sheep wars, seven grans, the Doctor eating the soil to find out where she is, etc. The latter could maybe have worked with better comedic timing/delivery, but even similar stuff that happened in the Capaldi era annoyed me as well.

What’s frustrating about this episode in particular is that it was almost amazing – take the concept of a parallel world created by an ancient entity to lure people in with the memories of their dead loved ones, and you could create an incredible Star Trek script, or an incredible Doctor Who script were it not edited by Chris Chibnall, and if Yaz had been completely excised from it. Three companions is too many companions.

[Ben Saunders]

>The only real problem was the Doctor suddenly pulling the explanation out of nowhere, halfway through the episode, seemingly based on very little evidence – and then turning out to be completely right in her guess.
The Doctor giving us her impression of Kryten, there.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

On the subject of Tosin not being able to act, I know someone that knows him. She ran script writing workshops that he attended so she got to work with him in an acting/drama environment for quite a while.

After the first episode she asked me how he did, and I said something along the lines of he’s ok, but his accent is shocking.

Her response was that she cannot fathom why they’d cast Tosin if the role required him doing a northern accent, because accents were always his weakness.

Even now she has seen him in the show she’s doesn’t quite get it, role just isn’t for him.

I actually quite like the character, and Tosin is generally ok, it’s just when he speaks it all falls apart

[Ben Saunders]

Is that not his real accent? That might explain a lot, because he sounds so monotone and… mindless, when speaking. It’s like he’s really not engaged with the material. Phoning it in, reading off an idiot board for an easy paycheck. I guess the character is alright, but the acting prevents me from thinking I like him, and neither him nor Yaz are really given all that much to do – get rid of one of them so that you have more time to develop either of them.

[Berlin]

I suspect Doctor Who will go under quite a significant re-tooling next year.

Bin everyone bar Jodie and Bradley and get back to some fucking adventuring, instead of this season’s worth of smack you around the head social commentary.

[si]

I think the awful accent might well affect the acting. I’m sure he’s a perfectly fine actor, but the fact he’s trying hard and failing to do an anywhere *near* convincing Sheffield accent, coupled with the fact that Ryan never really seems to have a great deal to do, or have decent dialogue…well, it detracts from any actual acting going on there.
If it weren’t for the fact that his story is almost inextricably linked to Graham’s, I’d drop him off and leave him with his dad for a bit.

[Lily]

Ryan has called him grandad now. We just need the fist bump next week and we’re done with Ryan.

Unfortunately I suspect we’re more likely to lose Walsh at the end of the season, as he seems far more likely to be a ‘one season and done’ kinda companion. If Chibnall and Whittaker do leave then we’ll get her and the remaining 2 companions in next year’s half arsed season and then starting all from scratch again.

[Berlin]

Bloody Colin Baker era all over again.

I do smell assassination around Chibnall though. It’s almost tradition to whinge about the Who show-runner within the fan community but he is particularly ham-fisted with Whittaker’s crop of stories.

[Warbodog]

I feel defensive about Nu Nu Who now, because I loved that last one (thanks, Ed Hime) and think the other guest-written episodes have been as good as the average guest-written ones we’ve always had – i.e. fine filler. But all the criticisms are correct and it’s clearly Chibnall’s fault.

[steven87gill]

I’m trying to remain positive here because even if the show isn’t to my tastes I want it to do well, & even though 4 million have turned out since the premiere, viewing figures are still respectable (although the fact there’s been a consistent & steady drop in almost every episode is a cause for concern)

For the first few weeks there seemed to be real momentum & dare I say some zeitgeist again, but my gut says that Chibbers may have blown it & we’ll be back to average viewing figures next series. It’s frustrating because the world was watching & this was the shows last big chance to return to a mass audience & we won’t get another shot like this in my lifetime.

[Berlin]

The revived era was a fluke, a well deserved fluke but one nonetheless. I suspect the BBC saw it lasting five years and then either being quietly leased off to an American production company or going back into the vaults after they figure out another Who-esque show to scare the children with. The worldwide popularity and new generation of fans that appeared through it was beyond anyone’s wildest dreams and the culmination of it all with the 50th anniversary special really was an indicator who how far it had come from being just another dreary old serial your dad watched to a touchstone in modern television culture.

The Whittaker era should’ve took it back into the stratosphere but it hasn’t and why? The writing, the club around the head social commentary and the distinct lack of adventure and eccentric daftness that we do very well.

Either Chibnall goes and they re-tool or they spend the 2019 season making nod and wink promises to everyone that it’s gonna be back to what we know and like best for 2020 and they can’t afford to lose viewers or long-term appeal through that.

[Lily]

Pretty blobs on lines, for those that are interested in seeing viewing figures in context.

View post on imgur.com

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