Episode/s with the worst audience?

[Dave]

I think the amount of real-life time is probably the biggest factor in that kind of reaction.

Mostly because it was more than 25 years since it had been seen in the first two series, though (I doubt many people were really thinking about its appearance in VIII when they saw it in Skipper).

[tombow]

I actually did feel emotional when I saw it in BITR…I was about to cheer, “yes classic Dwarf is back!”…so I was comparing the emotions of the 2 reveals…

[si]

The series VIII recreation was nothing next to that Skipper version. The detail in the XII take was divine.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I find it quite impressive that not once, but twice, they’ve recreated that set for one scene in one episode. You’d think that was a lot of effort to go to for just for the sake of continuity in VIII (which they have never been bothered about) and a bit of nostalgia in XII.

I guess I understand XII a little more as that entire episode was built around being a nostalgic wankfest for the fans.

VIII I’m surprised they didn’t use that set a couple of more times. Maybe there were plans to in the run up to being put in the tank. Like that scene with Rimmer and Lister and that has the gag about movers and shakers. Lister is in some kind of holding cell … when not long before he was under house arrest in his bunk. Why move him? Why not have those scenes in the bunk room?

Also, now I think about it it sticks out like a sore thumb because the rest of the aesthetics for VIII are completely different, all the corridors, offices, bunks etc (that aren’t the tank) are different to anything we’ve seen before. This is explained in part by being a redesigned Red Dwarf from before the cut backs, but it doesn’t really fit in then having a post cut back bunk room there.

[bloodteller]

>VIII I’m surprised they didn’t use that set a couple of more times. Maybe there were plans to in the run up to being put in the tank. Like that scene with Rimmer and Lister and that has the gag about movers and shakers. Lister is in some kind of holding cell … when not long before he was under house arrest in his bunk. Why move him? Why not have those scenes in the bunk room?

The holding cell scene actually was originally shot in the grey bunkroom, you can see it on the VIII Deleted Scenes on the DVD.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

The holding cell scene actually was originally shot in the grey bunkroom, you can see it on the VIII Deleted Scenes on the DVD.

ah right, I don’t usually bother with deleted scenes. Was there any explanation along with why it was re-shot?

[International Debris]

The BITR deleted scenes are worth a peek, it’s amazing how much was re-shot.

[Seb Patrick]

And why not cheer instead of murmer.

Speaking as one of the audible “murmurers”, the simple answer is that you react how you react at the time, it’s not a choice to make a noise that you know will be heard, it’s a natural reaction that you can’t control. It was a genuine expression of what I/we felt at the time, which was basically “Awww, that’s lovely”.

I don’t see how an out and out cheer would have felt less awkward, to be honest.

[Flap Jack]

[tombow]

Sorry

[Dave]

At the start of Future Echoes, the weird “Aaahhhhhh” reaction that follows Lister saying “Good morning Rimmer” (immediately after the slobbing around comments) has always seemed weird to me.

It’s like a noise of recognition/realisation that doesn’t really fit the scene, unless it’s because the audience is meeting them for the very first time (which might be true for that audience but doesn’t work for the home audience).

[Ridley]

“I can’t believe any of my guests could be an audible murmurer.”
“That’s easy for you to say.”

[Ben Saunders]

There are so many examples of the audience just not making a sound whatsoever at what are clearly funny lines, coupled with moments when the audience give a not-so funny line uproarious laughter (and even applause if it’s about mars bars), I really should start a list.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I clap like I’m trying to bring a fairy back to life everytime I think of that Mars Bar joke.

[bloodteller]

I’ve always wanted to go to an audience recording for a show and just moan erotically at one point while everyone else is laughing. That way the viewers at home will be very confused as to why you can hear someone having an Orgasm during one of the gags

[By Jove its holmes]

I dislike the notion of having a studio audience for RD. It creates a two-tier group of fans – those who go to the recordings and know what will happen in new episodes or specials, and those fans, especially ones in other countries, who do not. Worse, you almost always see many of the “recording-ists” act like smug arseholes after the episodes or specials are broadcast and non-recording-ist’s pre-broadcast speculation is shown to be wrong.

[Dave]

I don’t think that’s a reason to not have a studio audience, but I do think it’s maybe an argument for toning down that kind of explicit teasing from people who went to the recordings.

For example, this from the article with the new image of Rimmer’s armour:

It’s hard for us to say too much, having attended the recording, but for those of you who didn’t, get a load of this:

I’m not sure that this adds anything to the article other than to remind us that a small handful of people saw the show being recorded and will already have some insight into aspects of the show that are still a mystery to most. Which

(a) people who attended the recording will already be aware of, and
(b) people who didn’t attend the recording will already be aware of too.

Given that there’s such a (well-conceived and well-implemented) spoiler policy here, I’m not sure that people occasionally reminding everyone that they have spoilers that they can’t share is that helpful, especially given that so many fans were disappointed by not being able to get hold of the very limited number of tickets that were seemingly available for the recordings.

I don’t think anyone is deliberately acting like a smug arsehole but I can see how it could be read like that, and could feel like it creates a tier of fans “in the know” that excludes everyone else.

[Pete Part Three]

>I dislike the notion of having a studio audience for RD.

Red Dwarf is a studio-based sitcom.

>It creates a two-tier group of fans – those who go to the recordings and know what will happen in new episodes or specials

If anyone was ruining jokes or storylines. I’d sympathise. However, your complaint seem to be that you believe ‘recording-ists’ (?) are jotting down notes about incorrect speculation, so they can then wave it in people’s faces in a month’s time and say “Ha, ha. You were wrong”. I seriously doubt that’s happening. Would love to see your examples of people on here doing that for the last 18 episodes.

The very point of spoilers (which you are actively seeking by coming to G+T) is that it’s a teasing dripfeed of information. If you don’t like that feeling, I would stop reading news and looking at photos of the special. Go in blind, if it truly annoys you that people know more about this than you.

These days, a splintered audience (due to the episodes being streamed prior to broadcast, or the delay in reaching other countries) is just the way things are. Sure, the “recording-ists” saw *some* of the show months earlier, but that “two-tier’ is a little more complex when you factor in that this will never be a simultaneous broadcast for everyone who’s as invested as you.

[Ian Symes]

Sorry if it came across like that, Dave, it certainly wasn’t intentional. It was more meant as an excuse for us not having any detailed analysis like we do for other things. I’ll be more careful with this sort of thing in future now that I know how people feel.

[Dave]

I didn’t mean it as a particular criticism of you or your article Ian, although I can see how my post reads like that (more pointed than I intended). It was just an example that was fresh in my mind.

The truth is that any recorded show with a studio audience will by its nature have a small subset of people who know more about the content of the episode than most people do ahead of transmission.

I think most of us would agree that Red Dwarf is better with a studio audience, and I think most of us would also agree that the G&T spoiler policy is sound and the show would ultimately be worse off if loads of spoilers were made public ahead of the show airing. So I think most people are probably happy with the situation as it stands.

All I meant by my post was that I can understand how explicit reminders of the fact might feel a bit off-putting to those without that additional knowledge, especially if they’re disappointed with not having been able to attend the recordings in person.

But overall I think G&T strikes that balance really well and rarely makes it feel like there’s a group of people more ‘in the know’ than others, so please don’t take my comment to be representative of my general feelings! I probably shouldn’t have singled out such a specific example.

[Dave]

It was more meant as an excuse for us not having any detailed analysis like we do for other things.

And this makes perfect sense too. It would be dishonest to “speculate” about something when you know full well what the wider context is.

[Ian Symes]

That’s the trickiest part, trying to react to things as if you’d never seen them before, second-guessing yourself but still trying to be genuine. Treading the line of not wanting to piss off the production or the publicity teams, but still being fans first and remaining independent. It feels dishonest at times, and it’s always a blessed relief when each and every detail is made public, as it’s one less secret to keep hidden.

I remember Back To Earth’s production fondly, as it was a lot more straightforward. Everyone was in the dark about everything, so we all reacted for the first time at the same time. But I’m aware that this is all about diamond-shoes-too-tight, and that I’m lucky to be in this situation overall.

But anyway, I do appreciate the feedback, Dave, it’s good to talk things through and I know that anything you say is well-intentioned and good-natured.

[Dave]

Cheers, same.

Looking forward to getting the full trailer to really give us all something to chew on.

[Taiwan Tony]

I read that bit of the article completely differently. Like you were asking us “non-recording attendeesists” to fill our boots in a celebration of speculation, as well as reminding those that did attend (recordist attendeenantists?) to give nothing away.
And it’s always good fun to guess something correctly.
Different strokes.

[Ridley]

It was more meant as an excuse for us not having any detailed analysis like we do for other things.

That’s the way I (Philip J.) read it, for what that’s worth.

Not that I do much of it anyway but it can be a little off-putting speculating about something half the room seems to already know about. Complaining that some people got to see episodes first as part of a free random lottery invitation, however, is silly, insecure fan entitlement.

[Seb Patrick]

The truth is that any recorded show with a studio audience will by its nature have a small subset of people who know more about the content of the episode than most people do ahead of transmission.

This is true of any recorded show without a studio audience as well, though. From people on the production (or people who are friends with people on the production who get told things), to journalists given preview copies… there’s always a situation where there are people out there who know more than the general viewing public.

But when that general viewing public is a million or so people, and the number of people who’ve gone to see an audience recording number 250… I’m really not sure it’s all that big an issue.

[Dave]

Studio audiences are obviously somewhat different to that situation though, in terms of there being hundreds of members of the public who are not subject to the kind of formal agreements to not share information that would govern those other examples (whether through employment contracts with the production or journalist embargos) bug who are aware of this content.

I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s a big issue in general, it’s only come up in the specific context of a fansite with writers who have already seen much of the show recorded and are then writing for an audience who largely aren’t privy to that information.

And even then, it’s not that big a deal.

[Spaceworm Jim]

I think the whole idea of there being a two-tier group of fans is nonsense. It just comes across as trying to blame jealousy on other people. I don’t mean to be rude, and I’m sorry if this is coming across as twatty. Red Dwarf is vastly better with a studio audience. As Pete says, it’s a studio-based sitcom.

I really love the guy who laughs too loudly in Polymorph. There was a similar person in the audience of at least one Hancock’s Half Hour episode, I think it was Hancock in the Police. When I heard it as a little worm I thought it was an audible signal to the audience to laugh. The cheer at the end of The Beginning is lovely, if a bit demented.

[Dax101]

I have no issue with the studio audience. the problem for me is when the show straight-up plays to the audience. abit like a pantomime. which is great for the audience whose there. but not that interesting for those watching from home. No matter how wild you get the studio audience on the day… i don’t think really says much about the quality of the material.

If there was no audience. i probably could live with it. i don’t believe BTE suffered because there was no audience. i believe it suffered because the material felt tired.

[Veni]

I’d rather be the audience at home watching it on TV than the one at the studio, specifically in this case, where you’d (for most people) know a chuck of the plot but be completely oblivious to everything else that happens. That’d drive me mad.

[Veni]

the problem for me is when the show straight-up plays to the audience. abit like a pantomime. which is great for the audience whose there. but not that interesting for those watching from home.

Its for this reason I can’t really rewatch the Holly bit of Skipper anymore, its so wanky its like what everybody at the time thought Back to Earth was (but wasn’t) where its just cheer after cheer. Its really too much, and unless you’ve been binge-watching and understand Holly’s been gone or you’re already aware of that, it seems so out of left field as well.

The Hollister return is done way better, you get a real quick cheer at the beginning and everything afterward feels incredibly standard so I, as a viewer as home, can hear the jokes without any obnoxious applauding.

[Offline]

The nostalgia dollarpound is still a strong draw

[Taiwan Tony]

I kind of agree with the obnoxious applause thing. It doesn’t work with repeated viewings.
Possibly due to the show’s creator / writer being the director. Doug might have had his wrong hat on for that decision. Then again, it’s just a thought

[Author]

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