How do you solve a problem like Meltdown?

[Ben Kirkham]

Terrible topic title. Couldn’t resist. Apologies.

I’ve just watched it again, I watch it loads and loads and every time I find it to be one of the funniest, most enjoyable episodes. So let’s have this out, once and for all. Why the bad reputation? Let’s hear from people who love it, hate it and are a bit indifferent to it and why.

Discuss.

[Warbodog]

I’m not all that fond of the guest cast and the big focus they get, but I love all the scenes with the regulars, which are up there with the funniest of the whole series. So that balances out to kind of indifferent, but on the good side.

When I did a semi-rewatch last year, that was the episode that made me laugh out loud the most, maybe because I didn’t used to watch it so often or just because it’s one of the funniest.

[Warbodog]

Meltdown survey rankings:

Smegazine 1992 – 23rd of 30 (not so good)
BTL 1994 – 36th of 36 (worst)
BTL 1997 – 41st of 44 (one of the worst)
BTL 1999 – 35th of 49 (not that bad)
G&T 2008 – joint 15th of 52 (great, but this is just G&T admin)
G&T 2013 – 31st of 61 (middle)
G&T 2018 – 29th of 73 (above average)

[si]

I think it’s great, personally.
Just had a look at how I voted in the Pearl Poll, and I placed it 26th of 73.

[Ben Saunders]

I’ve always loved it. It is very silly, features the guest cast heavily, features some arguably out-of-character behaviour and a location which just looks utterly depressing, as well as that deliberately(?) shoddy stock footage, but it’s still very funny and has a fantastic little anti-war speech at the end. I don’t see why it would be “hated”, but I can see why people wouldn’t be rushing to place it in their top tens.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Cat and Lister in jail is probably some of the funniest stuff from series 4.

Watching it again recently myself and I did have to question why they needed a matter paddle to get there. What about the plot, other than a few jokes about using it wrong and ending up in showers or chimneys, is required by the paddle. Why not just a planet they stumble across, see sizes of life and take Starbug down? I guess it helps separate the crew on the planet … but then so could Kryten and Rimmer going missing (again – Backwards, Terrorform) and Lister and the Cat going to find them and ending up on landing on the evil side.

[Lily]

Dodgy ‘dinosaurs’.
Outside stuff looks like the back of the studios.
Whinny the Poo scene has the air of “we don’t have the budget to film this”.
Some of the guests give a weak performance.
Some of the guests are too over the top.

All that being said, I’ve always quite liked it.

[Taiwan Tony]

I like it a lot. And the smeg ups are very memorable too.
“Stone…”

[Jimboid]

I think it feels quite broad in the context of the original 36.

Compared to what was coming in a few years, though…it’s almost Swiftian in its rapier-etc-etc.

It’s always been funny, just in a slightly different gear to what we were used to at the time.

[Dave]

I like it but it’s definitely one of the sillier ones.

Elvis steals the show a bit too much at times, but he’s so great that you can’t complain.

[genericnerdyusername]

The Winnie the Pooh bit being all dialogue is infinitely funnier than it being done visually, and I’m pretty sure everyone making it knew this at the time. It’s all about Craig’s delivery.
I think the matter panel stuff works because it splits them up in a more original way than repeating things from literally the previous series. Plus cool effect for the time. Anyway, it manages to make Rimmer’s brainlessly boring story work better because it can be shoe horned in and yet it comes across as the actual plot of the episode interrupting what “should” be happening, which is Lister and the Cat having no escape from Rimmer’s risk story. It’s a well constructed beginning.

I’ve kind of always loved Meltdown and, I shit you not readers, I was gutted when I found out how unpopular it is/was. Looking back, it has similar ideas in it to series X-II, and like Jimboid said, it is much broader than something like Dimension Jump or Camille, but it just does them much better. Cured is probably a good example of having an idea close to Meltdown but doing it… not wrongly but certainly less successfully.

[Kris Carter]

I don’t know. As a kid, it was always my least favourite of Series IV, but I’ve never been able to isolate why. As I’ve grown older, I’ve found it funnier and funnier, and now it’s an episode I really enjoy.

Maybe it was because it was at the end of my off-broadcast-VHS tapes, so it took longer to to get to and got rewatched less? Maybe because even for Dwarf it was a bit more out-there and bizarre? I dunno. Maybe now we have a lot more Red Dwarf that is of much worse quality (looking square at you Series VIII), it raises Meltdown by comparison.

[Ben Saunders]

>Whinny the Poo scene has the air of “we don’t have the budget to film this”.
No way, it’s absolutely a joke that works better through dialogue than through us actually being shown it, especially with Craig’s delivery of it

Also the comments on the matter paddle not being necessary is kind of strange, because it’s not like it detracts from the episode in any way, and it does lead to a lot of funny gags, and this is a comedy after all.

Basically my comment is exactly what genericnerdyusername said, carry on

[genericnerdyusername]

Thanks for agreeing with me, Ben! Whenever I give an opinion anywhere online I usually get anxious over how it’s going to come across, so it’s nice to feel justified.

[Warbodog]

This isn’t what we’re talking about, sorry, but Holoship is an even more extreme case than Meltdown of an episode being confusingly unpopular once and gradually working its way up the ranks, now approaching the top 10.

Second worst in 1992
32nd in 1994
28th in 1997
23rd in 1999
15th in 2013
13th in 2018
(10th G&T 2008)

What’s that all about? I think it’s one of the most quotable episodes, great design, and obviously a good one for Rimmer. 90s sci-fi fans stereotypically weren’t interested in love stories? Camille’s never done that well either, usually in the 30s or 40s, but at least that’s consistent.

[Ben Kirkham]

Never be afraid to voice your opinion on G&T, genericnerdyusername, we’re all friends here :-)

I, too, agree that the Winnie the Pooh scene is sold purely through dialogue and reactions. “He’s refusing the blindfold” always makes me laugh. And maybe that’s why I love the episode and it’s unique style. It’s utterly absurd but it’s absurdity seems to make sense within itself. Quite Monty Python-esque. Compare it’s broad and freewheeling absurdity to the dinosaur/cow moment in ‘Pete Part Two’ which is ludicrous in a sad and desperate way. Likewise ‘Timewave,’ which is just embarrassing.

I wouldn’t like Red Dwarf to be like this all the time, but if it ever experiments with going a bit Monty Python, I’m glad it’s this episode.

[Lily]

I love the Winnie scene too, I was just trying to think of reasons why people in general might not like it.

> but Holoship is an even more extreme case than Meltdown of an episode being confusingly unpopular once and gradually working its way up the ranks

I could see that people’s opinions on Holoship would change over time. The young teenagers that rated it in the 90s were less likely to understand or empathise with Rimmers motivations as well as the 30somethings that are rating it now.

[Pete Part Three]

Never been keen on the weird scene transitions, the odd music, the budget impersonators, the crap location, and the stock footage, all of which are production choices rather than writing.

I can name 31 episodes of Red Dwarf which are worse though.

[Dax101]

I like it, but might be my least favorite of Series 4. alot of the story banks around the impersonators.

But on the plus though, the impersonators play it mostly subtle so it doesn’t fall into X/XI/XII hamming.

Clayton Mark as Elvis is great though.

[Dave]

The Winnie-the-Pooh scene is like doing a radio sketch but on TV. It gets funnier as each invisible detail is revealed.

[Hamish]

I will say that, considering that they are playing wax droid versions of the historical figures and not the historical figures themselves, them being a bit broad is actually more realistic.

It also makes the determination on who is good or evil here a little less dodgy, since it is all based on popular perceptions of the figures rather than the figures themselves. There is a lot of dirt you can throw at Mother Teresa, Queen Victoria, or even Gandhi if you look, but all that matters is their reputation.

[Hamish]

Further I would say that both Raspution and Messalina get a bit of an unfair rap, but it is fine in the context of the episode.

[NoFro]

It is a generally strong script with some outstanding scenes but I definitely found it hard to get past the crap locations and broad impersonations when I was younger and I’ve always disliked that they didn’t do anything to make the waxworks look more like waxworks through a subtle make up effect or something.

Always loved Pythagoras though. Always with the triangles.

[si]

This thread has made me go back and look at the polls, and, as I’ve only been dipping in and out of the boxset til now, I’ve now started a full RD rewatch, but in Pearl Poll reverse order. The idea being that it’ll keep getting better.
This means I’ve started this afternoon by watching Pete and Back In The Red. (The whole stories – I’m not going to break them up, that’s just silly)
Timewave, Only The Good… and Krytie TV tomorrow.

[Taiwan Tony]

Re, reverse order. That is an EXCELLENT idea.

[Dave]

Or a terrible one – I think I might not make it past that first couple of days.

[Ben Kirkham]

Brave decision if you’re playing the long game. Sort of like that bit in The Shawshank Redemption when Andy Dufresne tunnels through all the shit to get to freedom.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

That’s very brave. Apart from anything else I’d probably get annoyed at watching g things out of ordered before I got annoyed at watching lots of shit episodes.

[Warbodog]

Does anyone have a preferred viewing order they stubbornly stick to over the broadcast order because it “makes more sense”?

I only ever watch random episodes anyway, but I’d theoretically do:

I – Future Echoes fourth to preserve the sense of an opening trilogy dealing with the fallout before moving on to Zany space antics.

II – Head before Bells for Percy’s beard continuity. Wrong show, but I actually do that one.

III – Marooned before Backwards for Kryten’s strangeness continuity.

IV – Meltdown before Camille for Kryten’s rebelling continuity. Feels a bit extreme though.

VIII – Pete before Krytie TV so the name “Ackerman” might actually mean something.

[Ben Saunders]

Meltdown is worth it for Rimmer’s line about poncey French philosophers

[Ben Saunders]

>Timewave, Only The Good… and Krytie TV tomorrow.
I like how the ellipsis at the end of Only The Good makes it look like you’re pausing for dramatic effect before the reveal of the horror that is Krytie TV.

[Ben Kirkham]

Re: The Percy’s Beard thing in Blackadder II. He chops it off in Bells and grows it back before Head. Then he decides to get rid of it before Potato. Continuity issue solved ;)

[By Jove its holmes]

the location footage looks like a couple of fields somewhere in England, not an alien planet.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

SCI-FI SHOW IN EXTERIOR FOOTAGE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE EARTH AND NOT ANOTHER PLANET SHOCK!

[bloodteller]

>the location footage looks like a couple of fields somewhere in England, not an alien planet.

I think even Rob and Doug were annoyed about this, to be fair. As I recall Rob mentioned in an interview “they could have at least put up a few signs saying ‘Welcome to Wax-world’ ” or something like that, and pointing out how it isn’t really convincing that they’re in this wax droid theme park

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

A dilapidated sign could have worked, but then wouldn’t that give it away to the character’s who don’t know for quite a while what’s going on.

Also, one of the droids says to Rimmer they’ve been there on their own for millions of years. So any semblance of a theme park would be gone and it would just all be overgrown fields and woodland etc. Even the buildings shouldn’t really still be standing but you can sort of forgive that a little.

As much as it looks naff, that is how it’d look in reality

[Lily]

I think the problem is that it’s not even convincing as fields somewhere in England. The buildings in the background and the fence line they walk along really make it feel like the bit of scrubland at the back of the studio car park. It’s the lack of any type of effort that devalues it.

The outside stuff in Better Than Life is pretty ropey as well. You don’t see Rhyll beach and think of paradise, but with the doorway and car ‘appearing’ it’s enough to be able to just about hold on to enough suspension of belief to make it work.

[Lily]

Oh and I was going to also say -where- is Wax World? It must be pretty close to Earth surely? If they’ve been alone there for millions of years, they must be of pretty much the same time as Lister? Had humans gone beyond the solar system at that point?

[By Jove its holmes]

There would countless uninhabited planets in the Dwarf universe that have ended up colonized by humanity, so it may not be close to Earth.

[Warbodog]

RIMMER: So are there any planets with an atmosphere in range?

KRYTEN: Well, several according to the paddle’s scanners, but the most interesting prospect appears to be 200,000 light years away. In the normal course of things it would take Starbug several billion years to reach it.

200,000 light years is about the size of the Milky Way. I have no idea how any of this applies to Red Dwarf or how those various numbers work together.

[clem]

> I placed it 26th of 73.

That’s what I did. Seems about right – it’s a little bit better than people think it is. Chris gives a good performance. Broad, but like in Officer Rimmer it’s Rimmer himself that’s getting carried away so it works. His disdain for Gandhi is hilarious. Also Caligula is the highlight of Tony Hawks’ Red Dwarf career.

Maybe it’s more popular than it used to be because now, in the Dave era, fans are more open to different approaches, whereas before it was seen as the show doing something outside its remit or a perceived creative vision. I agree it’s got a bit of a X – XII vibe, mainly due to the guest cast.

[clem]

> Terrible topic title. Couldn’t resist. Apologies.

Am I missing something? What’s the joke?

[International Debris]

I think a lot of it is more broad and silly than the show generally went for at the time, which might put some people off. I think it’s bloody great though. It’s odd that it wasn’t originally intended to be the last episode of IV, as it has the ‘something slightly different’ end-of-series feel that the closers tend to have. The Lister and Cat prison scene is up there with my favourite Dwarf moments, particularly the Caligula part.

The location never bothered me. Plus it helped set up shows I got into later, like being able to enjoy SG-1 without getting bothered that every single planet in the universe looks like Canada.

I – Future Echoes fourth to preserve the sense of an opening trilogy dealing with the fallout before moving on to Zany space antics.

Although in some senses I think this might lead to an oddly paced series in terms of it just being a sitcom, I agree that narratively having the ‘not much happens’ episodes at the start works a lot better.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Oh and I was going to also say -where- is Wax World? It must be pretty close to Earth surely? If they’ve been alone there for millions of years, they must be of pretty much the same time as Lister? Had humans gone beyond the solar system at that point?

I’m pretty sure the show implies that the ship Red Dwarf stays within the solar system for the most part – that is until Skipper when in one of the universes it is said they are “doing jags up and down the Milky Way every six months”. If that’s true then they are regularly breaking physics because the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across so to traverse that in 6months you’d have to be going way over the speed limit … or travelling much much much faster than light can.

But even before that, Tod Hunter asks Lister in The End if he has ever travelled interstellar as he is about to go into stasis. So that tells us that in Lister’s life time, long distance space travel was capable – albeit crew would probably be in suspended animation.

It’s not stated in the show, but in the novels, Kryten and the Nova 5 ended up where they were (ostensibly 3million years into deep space) by way of a Holly Hop type drive … or actually more like the BSG jumping drive thing (can’t remember what it’s called) that can instantly propel them across very large sections of space. I think in Infinity Welcome’s Careful Drivers it’s stated they could use the Nove 5 drive to get back to Earth in multiple jumps in 6 months.

And Kryten isn’t much younger than Lister and Rimmer right? Built around the same time, maybe a hundred years later. So humanity was able to expand and explore space as much as they wanted in Lister and Rimmer’s time or shortly after.

Also, the matter paddle is an experiment found aboard Red Dwarf (why they’re conducting experiments on mining ship, who knows) but it could be a precursor to the Nova 5 drive as it acts in exactly the same why. Can transport you vast distances in seconds. It’s just the Nova 5 drive is capable of transporting entire space ships and not just people.

All of that also goes someway to explaining why the space they are travelling through is always so populated. Over those 3 million years humanity got everywhere … Maybe even further out than Red Dwarf before it turned around.

I’d also use that to question whether humanity is actually really extinct … there’s probably some version of it out there somewhere, given the technology we appeared to have developed in a short time. We’ve either moved on further and further out or evolved in higher beings or something.

[Warbodog]

They reckon the galaxy’s 200,000 light years across now. Monty Python’s Galaxy Song is hard to shake off though.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I think the main disc is 100,000 still, but there’s some masses outside of that that are caught in the galaxies gravity and are in orbit with it, so there’s stuff further out, but it’s sparse in comparison.

So it can be measured as 200,000, but you there’s nothing much there, and the main bit you’d want to travel around in is still only 100,000.

Either way, its bloody big and apparently humanity, in the RD universe (at the time of or shortly after the radiation leak), has the technology to travel around it fairly easily.

[si]

Timewave, Only The Good… and Krytie TV tomorrow.

Just watched Timewave. Crikey. Not only is it bad, it’s not even as good as I remember.

[International Debris]

Having 3 million years to play with is pretty handy. If you think of the rate technology is developing currently, then even a few hundred years after the pre-accident era could easily bring about astonishing technological changes, the likes of which are seen in the show, and yet barely scratch the surface of the time Lister was in stasis. Humanity could have lived a long, rich 100,000 years before going extinct and still barely scratch the surface of the time Lister was in stasis.

[International Debris]

Ignoring the fact that it supposedly takes 4,000 years to turn around (thus they’re still not remotely heading back to Earth and never will in their lifetime)*, if they’re heading in the general direction of Earth then there’s 3 million years of the universe expanding to take into account, which means it’s likely that various planets and such they visit are a lot further from Earth than they were when they were initially settled. It’s also likely that these were the furthest reaches of humanity and they’re still a fair way from larger settlements. Of all this, the only one that doesn’t quite work is the psi-moon, which I can’t imagine being quite so far out given its status as a luxury place for rich people.

*There are enough ways around this for it to not be a dramatic plot hole.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

gnoring the fact that it supposedly takes 4,000 years to turn around (thus they’re still not remotely heading back to Earth and never will in their lifetime)

I don’t think they mean it will take literally 4000 years, just that at the speed they’re travelling, light speed or close to it, they would have travelled a further 4,000 years distance at a relatively normal speed. So it might only take a day to turn the ship around but in that time they’ve have been travelling so fast, that at normal speeds they’d be 4,000 years further away.

So they would be slightly further away, but in the great scheme of things not that much. And if they’re still travelling at light speed once the turn is completed, they’d make some of that distance back up before they’ve slowed down to a stop.

[Author]

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