Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

[penny]

I found the trailer of it when I went to check my emails and then found the official site: http://www.indianajones.com/site/index.html
Guess who’s in it….the guy from Transformers, Shia LaBeouf :D

Also came across this too: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=X7fux_fiXjE
Which is cute…aw!

Topic

[Nakrophile]

I have forgotten if anyone had mentioned it already but watching Last Crusade again the new one will have to have a fucking good ending, as this one was perfect.

[Danny Stephenson]

“It’s your kids, something’s gotta be done about your kids!!!”

“Grails? Where we’re going we won’t need, Grails…”

etc etc.

[Ridley]

Seems to have gotten mostly positive reviews. I’d link but some of these things have spoilers.

Edit: So has anyone else seen this yet? While for the most part I liked it and have issues with some parts (namely the finale), I can see why some have and will be calling foul on Lucas/Spielberg. It isn’t much like the other three and there is some CGI that was completely unnecessary. Ooh if that green screen in the trailer annoyed you… ho boy.

[Andrew]

> So has anyone else seen this yet?

Yep.

I have yet to fully articulate my opinion. It is not positive.

[Ridley]

By how much? ;) The thing is, with the same ideas, I think they could have been done better.

[pfm]

> ?It?s your kids, something?s gotta be done about your kids!!!?

I think that every time! ‘What did I tell you!! Eiiighty eiight miiiiles per hooouuur!!’

As for Crystal Skull… if you haven’t seen it and you’re wondering why the reviews are a bit weird (for want of a better word), once you DO see it you’ll wonder no more!!

I’m a massive fan of Raiders and Crusade (not so much Doom…, although I liked it when I was 10) which, sadly, is something of a bad thing going into this. Maybe not for the first 20-30 minutes (lead-lined refrigerators aside) which I enjoyed to a point. I actually welled up with the shot of the photo of Henry Jones Sr. (Sean Connery) with John Williams’s classic theme from Crusade playing over it. It’s like…nearly 20 years of me loving the fuck out of that film being paid off with one shot, which was very cool indeed.

There are quite a few positives, in the first half of the movie at least. Shia LaBeouf comes in and he should silence all the people who keep laying into him because he’s GOOD in this film. I sat up during the bike chase through the university and thought ‘yeah, this is what we want!!’ it was old-school Spielberg action, and the comedy here is about the only place it works in the whole movie. Shia’s chemistry with Ford is something that should have been in it MORE, but they hardly even say a line to each other in the last 45 minutes or so. Such a shame after some real character scenes.

That brings me to a major criticism – there’s not enough for ANY of the characters to do in Skull, mainly at the end. Imagine at the end of Doom if Indy, Willie and Short Round just sat in the mine car and there was no danger, they had nothing to do, no enemies to fend off. That’s what the end of Skull is like. They’re just watching things happen (strange, confusing CG things that neither David Koepp’s shit script nor Spielberg’s fluctuating formidable/dismal effort in the director’s chair can handle). Spielberg seems to find it very hard to end his big films these days. Everything from The Lost World onwards. But it’s not his fault the script is fucking excerable. It doesn’t feel like Indy has a motive or anything to do with the outcome of the film. One of the worst things is him returning the skull because the skull ‘tells’ him to do so. That would be like in Crusade him going after the Grail because Christ ‘told’ him to or something.

Without wanting to bang on about it too much, Indy 4 is mostly just OK but with a below average second half that descends into utter pus (three waterfalls…I was yawning, Marion driving off the cliff onto the tree…I was looking at my watch, Shia with the monkeys…I was weeping, the CG ending…I was CURSING)

Btw, John Hurt has one of the worst lines of all-time at the end after Indy asks ‘where did they go, space?’ It actually reminded me of something Kryten would say, then there would be a LAUGH because it’s a sitcom, not the end of an Indiana Jones movie.

[Ridley]

I think LaBeouf comes across as likable in this too. And I’m not being sarcastic.

[TheLeen]

Going this afternoon, opinion to follow!

[TheLeen]

Back. I loved it. I even liked Shia LaBeouf in it.

(Opinion containing spoilers)

I thought the film was very Indy. All that I’d hoped for. They could’ve fucked this up a whole lot more and I’d half expected that, too.

[Nakrophile]

I am massively disappointed. It was shit, although there were some good bits. Not many, though. Not very many at all.

[pfm]

On second viewing I liked it better. The end is still pretty dire though. I particularly dislike the bit where they come running out of the Mayan pyramid, you see the Mayans for about 2 seconds then that’s IT, the next time you see them they’re all dead on the floor (in a PG style, of course, don’t know why they gave this PG-13/12A).

John Hurt’s character, Prof Oxley, is ridiculous. When he comes ‘back’ at the end it doesn’t mean anything to the audience because we’ve only seen him as a madman (don’t you just want the film to end when he says ‘Henry Jones…junior!’ for like the third time??). I hate how the rest of them follow him and the skull, it makes for a very boring last 20 minutes. Surely there was a way of changing this so there wasn’t Indy, Mutt, Marion, Mac AND Oxley (I like it when Mutt refers to him as ‘the Ox’) all there at the end.

And the ending for Cate Blanchett’s character is really crap, half-arsed. If you compare her with Donovan in Last Crusade, it really means something when he wants to take the Grail for himself and the Nazis. That is obviously a very bad thing that could happen. However, in Crystal Skull, when she asks the aliens – sorry, ‘trans-dimensional beings…from the space between spaces’ – to give her all their knowledge you don’t give a shit whether they do or they don’t. You don’t know what their knowledge is and what benefits it could have, unlike the obvious benefits of the Holy Grail. So whether she dies or not you couldn’t give a toss.

Such a weak end, but many positives along the way, mainly the action which Spielberg pulls off excellently. I just know that there are hundreds if not thousands of people out there who could have polished up that script, ironing out the wrongness. After Koepp’s dodgy War of the Worlds screenplay why did Spielberg bring him back?

[TheLeen]

> John Hurt?s character, Prof Oxley, is ridiculous.

Yeah, giving John Hurt (JOHN HURT!) that kind of role was such a waste. But his character basically was the equivalent to Crusader’s diary. Which was a good idea to handle this, but he shouldn’t have just gone normal when the skull “released” his mind. Or at least his friends should have REACTED to it in some way.

> You don?t know what their knowledge is and what benefits it could have,

Well, if the communists learned of agriculture and watermills… desaster :D

But I like the film anyway. It amuses me.

[Pete Part Three]

Saw it yesterday. I rather enjoyed it and, aside from a few bits, it appeared like it could have been made 15 years ago which was a rather nice touch. Shame that Speilberg couldn’t have had an active role in the Star Wars prequels and taught Lucas how to recapture the good ol’ days rather than reinventing the wheel.

Baffled by the nuclear bomb bit (what was the point exactly?), found Ray Winstone tiresome and dreading the premier of Mutt Williams and the Quest for a New Franchise.

Don’t think that the presence of Aliens was such a stretch for this series (after the ghosties in the Ark and the immortal knights in Crusade) but, yes, as Monkey says Hurt’s line about the Alien’s true origins was awful. How the hell does he know anyway?

[TheLeen]

> Saw it yesterday. I rather enjoyed it and, aside from a few bits, it appeared like it could have been made 15 years ago which was a rather nice touch. Shame that Speilberg couldn?t have had an active role in the Star Wars prequels and taught Lucas how to recapture the good ol? days rather than reinventing the wheel.

Exactly! I couldn’t find the right words, but that is exactly how I feel about it.

[Ridley]

Saw it yesterday. I rather enjoyed it and, aside from a few bits, it appeared like it could have been made 15 years ago which was a rather nice touch. Shame that Speilberg couldn?t have had an active role in the Star Wars prequels and taught Lucas how to recapture the good ol? days rather than reinventing the wheel.

Well he did film that bit in Episode III.

Don?t think that the presence of Aliens was such a stretch for this series (after the ghosties in the Ark and the immortal knights in Crusade) but, yes, as Monkey says Hurt?s line about the Alien?s true origins was awful. How the hell does he know anyway?

Presumably told him when he looked into the eyes of the skull and went maaaaaaad … for an hour.

Also: “You threw a monkey in the sea?”

[Tarka Dal]

Saw this Friday, going again tomorrow. It’s not great, but good – very good. Very enjoyable. It’s formulaic, it’s gung-ho OTT American patriotism, it’s a bloody Indiana Jones film. It never quite hits top gear, it’s more like a Sunday afternoon jaunt through some familiar locations, but it’s damn good fun. It has half a dozen set-pieces or quips which are pure Indy and most importantly it makes you smile.

> Baffled by the nuclear bomb bit (what was the point exactly?), found Ray Winstone tiresome and dreading the premier of Mutt Williams and the Quest for a New Franchise.

Well it’s another notch for Indy isn’t it? Like a stuffed Animal head on a Huntsman’s wall. This is Indiana Jones, he found the the Holy Grail, he survived a Nuclear Bomb. Plus I guess it’s playing into the period the film is set in. Here we are deep within Cold War paranoia and here’s our hero – A man who can find his way out of an apocalypse.

[Andrew]

> Also: ?You threw a monkey in the sea??

This was funnier than anything anyone said or did in the entire film.

> gung-ho OTT American patriotism

I disagree, actually. I thought it depicted ‘America’ as nuclear-detonating, paranoid and generally wrong!

[Andrew]

> It?s only the script that?s weak.

I thought Spielberg’s direction was at a career low. Second unit-ish, perfunctory. Timing, emotional sense, photography (a weird clashing of styles there, too), flat performances, lousy, home-based production, ill-judged audio choices, a very bog-standard Williams score…

I guess the costumes were okay. Though they missed a trick on reusing Marion’s white dress from Raiders. So I guess the hair was probably the best thing. Except for Spalko’s wig. So possibly the props. Nope, skull wasn’t too great, Erm…

> I still can?t believe he died of AIDS

Because people usually shrug that one off after a few days’ bed rest?

[Tarka Dal]

> I disagree, actually. I thought it depicted ?America? as nuclear-detonating, paranoid and generally wrong!

I guess it does, I was referring more specifically to Indy himself.

I was similarly underwhelmed with John Williams score, especially as I felt a great job had been done with the theme for the trailer. I completely disagree on most other levels, it won’t be my favourite film of the year. It’s not the best Indiana Jones movie, but it’s a million miles away from being a cinematic car crash.

[pfm]

It’s only the script that’s weak. Oh, and Jim Broadbent’s dodgy acting at the start when he’s shouting at Indy outside the classroom. I suppose again it doesn’t help that we don’t know his character so when he’s suddenly getting upset about having to resign it means zero to the audience. Such a shame Denholm Elliott is long dead and couldn’t return as an ancient Brody (I still can’t believe he died of AIDS).

Yet again this movie sticks with my logic that everything connects to Dwarf, Who, Harry Potter and LOTR in some way.

Dwarf – John Hurt is in this, he was in Alien which inspired Mel Bibby’s sets on Red Dwarf.
Potter – Jim Broadbent plays Slughorn in the next HP film
Who – er, bear with me, er…Marcus Brody is in this (albeit only his image and memory) as played by Denholm Elliott who was in the film Voyage of the Damned which was stolen as a title by Russell T Davies.
LOTR – Cate Blanchett = Galadriel.

Alan Dale was in this, he plays Charles Widmore on Lost (and is becoming the king of geekdom guest appearances). But my FAVOURITE piece of information about Crystal Skull is that one of the weird protector guys that attack Indy and Mutt at the cemetery is none other than Ernie Reyes Jr. who played Kino in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze !!! Bwahahahaha!!!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_C9M2h8IZZ4

Speaking of Turtles, why can’t all shows be as good as this? (Uncle Phil alert!)

[Pete Part Three]

Best in scene in Crystal Skull:

Jim Robinson and the Janitor from Scrubs!

[pfm]

Every time I see your pic, ShitSuperficialHead, I immediately think ‘tell you what, tell you what it’s nine-and-a-half thousand pounds!’

[Ben Paddon]

How disappointed were you with Indy4? Disappointed enough to design and sell your own tee-shirt stating the fact?

[Ridley]

He won’t care.

[pfm]

There’s speculation that Lucas wore this as a statement that Han WILL shoot first in the final ultimate edition of A New Hope that appears on the upcoming Star Wars saga ultimate Blu-ray set. When the hell it will come out is anyone’s guess. Maybe at the same time as the live-action TV series. Whatever, they BETTER include the original versions of the films on this box set (and I’m talking ORIGINAL THEATRICAL CUTS of the original trilogy, meaning A New Hope is just called Star Wars and has no episode number)

[Ben Paddon]

Unlikely – Lucas claims to have “taped over” the originals. A friend of mine who used to work for LucasFilm reckons that Lucas actually has the prints, but his egocentric desire to continually fuck the films up the arsehole prevents him from releasing them in their original, “incomplete” format.

[ChrisM]

But he has hasn’t he? Didn’t he let loose a whole series of original versions of the films?
Or is this an even older version than that? If so I’m sure the difference is negligible.

Whether he will do the same for the Blu-ray versions, I don’t know. The format at least lends itself for multiple versions.

I’ve got the remastered versions myself. Overall I didn’t have a problem with them, apart from some of the superfluous CGI in Star Wars which I’ve already mentioned. I agree it got a bit silly just how many tweaks that keep being made though. In my version you’ve got the prequel actor replacing the original in the ghost scene at the end. And I’ve heard a couple of years back, that they were planning a version of Empire with an animated CG yoda, mine still being the puppet version (which I think works just fine.) I don’t know whether that version was ever released though.

[pfm]

> And I?ve heard a couple of years back, that they were planning a version of Empire with an animated CG yoda, mine still being the puppet version (which I think works just fine.) I don?t know whether that version was ever released though.

It’s not gonna happen in Empire but they’re replacing the puppet Yoda in The Phantom Menace with the digital model from Revenge of the Sith, partly to keep it in line with the other prequels, partly because the puppet in TPM was utter crap in comparison to ESB (d’you know, I wish Frank Oz would also redo the dialogue as it was almost like a squeaky parody – ‘revealed, your opinion is!’ He nailed it for AOTC and ROTS though).

I am all for that change and any other changes they’re making to TPM, AOTC and ROTS for the new Blu-ray set. They can ONLY be for the better (unlike many of the changes made to the original trilogy). I will NEVER accept the song in Jabba’s throne room in Return of the Jedi. It’s beyond dreadful and the less said about the CG in that sequence the better. Talk about taking a great big shit on your movie. Not that Jedi was perfect but by the Christchild it didn’t need this, OR Hayden Christensen appearing at the end as ghost Anakin. They didn’t even specifically shoot it, it was just a ROTS costume test they threw in there!! Hayden said himself he would actually have liked to act it. The bullshit explanation is that Anakin literally died as a young man and that’s why he appears here as Hayden. The thing is, he is obviously good as his old self in Jedi when Luke takes off his mask. AND he’s very much alive. According to the EU (or the ‘EUGH!’ as some people like to call it…) Vader hopes to eventually heal himself and to be able to breath without the mask.

[ChrisM]

The thing is, he is obviously good as his old self in Jedi when Luke takes off his mask

Yeah, I didn’t think it was really fair on that other actor editting him out like that either. Ok, its a very small role but even so.

That being said he doesn’t look like an older Hayden, but that’s not really the point.

According to the EU (or the ?EUGH!? as some people like to call it?) Vader hopes to eventually heal himself and to be able to breath without the mask.

Yeah, I’ve actually read a book where he does something like that. Shadows of the Empire I believe it was (but I might be wrong. It’s been a while since I read it.) Of the Star Wars books, quite a good one that. It’s set between Empire and Jedi.

I used to be quite into the continuing novels. I kind of went off them when the prequels were made, but they’re still not a bad read. I haven’t read any of the new ones though.

One thing I noticed, the books were set after Jedi, to leave space for the prequel trilogy, but they still managed to reference stuff from the clone wars, stuff that contradicts the films. (A very interesting take it was though. Hints of mysterious ‘clone masters’ attacking the republic with clone armies, and attempting to replace jedi with dark jedi dopplegangers. A bit predictable maybe, and the prequel version probably fits better but it reads like a lot of fun.)

The prequels take on the clone wars was good too mind, and unexpected, but part of me wishes it had tied with the books better. And I wish they’d left out the midichlorian malarky from the prequels too.

Ok drifted right of the Indy topic! Anyway, I haven’t seen Crystal Skull yet, but I love the Indy films and look forward to doing so. Have a feeling it’ll be on DVD by the time I see it though.

[Ridley]

Just read Mr. Ellard’s Indy 4 review on that other website. Has everyone seen the supposed Darabont draft?

Apart from fewer plot questions and Jones breaking his equipment out of the museum (now having to leave the country because he could be executed as a Communist), I do think the cinema got the better version.

[Author]

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