Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Loose Ends

  • This topic has 38 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by Dax101.
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  • #258862
    Dave
    Participant

    Watching the documentary on the Promised Land Blu-Ray, I thought it was interesting that Doug talked about the cat race as one of the major loose ends from the early days of the show, how he wanted to address that in the special, and how any future specials would probably seek to address other major loose ends.

    So what could these be?

    Kochanski seems like the main one. Also what happened to the rest of the crew after Series VIII (and the Rimmer changeover), although Doug doesn’t seem keen on revisiting this.

    What else? Old Lister from Future Echoes? The Stasis Leak future? What else could they mine for a new special?

    #258864
    si
    Participant

    Parallel Universe – Did Hilly change her face to Norman Lovett’s?
    Cassandra – *Did* The Cat ever find his singing tie pin?

    #258869
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    What happened to Lister’s pea?

    #258870
    Dax101
    Participant

    Well the biggest loose end has to be the obvious one. what happened after series 8. there isn’t that many loose ends in this show. at least none that really need expansion. i guess you could expand on the events between series 2 and 3. but personally id rather he left loose ends alone.

    #258871
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    What DID Kryten mean when he said “it’s almost to the day?”
    How did the events of White Hole pan out after the episode ended, they’d go back to what they were doing before but without the effects of the White Hole itself, right?

    I’m torn between not wanting Kochanski to return because of how it might impact future episodes, and accepting that there might not be that many future episodes so you might as well, AND the fact that it’s not the 90s anymore and her inclusion might be handled a lot better and more naturally in the special format.

    #258872
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I’m mainly interested in catching up with Kochanski, but that’s been mentioned already above.

    I’d also like to be filled in with how the cliff-hanger at the end of series 8 was resolved, but I appreciate Doug may not be interested in telling that story. I don’t really care that the characters look too old for a back-flash story. I’d just see it as a story of their memory of events and assume the other people of the time see them how they would have looked back then. On the other hand, I appreciate that the fact this story was left hanging was a source of gags in The Beginning, so part of me wouldn’t mind if it were just left that way.

    Another story that could be picked up:
    What happened to Lister’s sons with him/herself from a parallel universe.

    We know from the fast moving catch up text at the start of Series 3 that they aged quickly* and were returned to their father (who is a woman) in her universe, but they have never been referred to again.

    It’s not really a loose end, and I’m not fussed if they never tell the story, but it could be fuel for an interesting Lister-centric story with their reunion.

    *Why would that actually happen? I know it’s something to do with different rules in different universes but it seems a peculiar outcome. A time dilation thing maybe?

    #258873
    ChrisM
    Participant

    My post mysteriously vanished after I edited it, so here it is again:

    I’m mainly interested in catching up with Kochanski, but that’s been mentioned already above.

    I’d also like to be filled in with how the cliff-hanger at the end of series 8 was resolved, but I appreciate Doug may not be interested in telling that story. I don’t really care that the characters look too old for a back-flash story. I’d just see it as a story of their memory of events and assume the other people of the time see them how they Would have looked back then. On the other hand, I appreciate that the fact this story was left hanging was a source of gags in The Beginning, so part of me wouldn’t mind if it were just left that way.

    Another story that could be picked up:
    What happened to Lister’s sons with him/herself from a parallel universe.

    We know from the fast moving catch up text at the start of Series 3 that they aged quickly* and were returned to their father (who is a woman) in her universe, but they have never been referred to again.

    It’s not really a loose end, and I’m not fussed if they never tell the story, but it could be fuel for an interesting Lister-centric story with their reunion.

    *Why would that actually happen? I know it’s something to do with different rules in different universes but it seems a peculiar outcome. A time dilation thing maybe?

    #258874
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    How did Dave know that we’d be discussing this exact topic in a podcast that wasn’t released until two hours after he started this thread?

    #258875
    Dave
    Participant

    How did Dave know that we’d be discussing this exact topic in a podcast that wasn’t released until two hours after he started this thread?

    Clearly a case of quantum entanglement.

    The suggestion of Jim and Bexley made in the podcast is one that I’d never really considered before, because I assumed from the way they’re handled in Backwards that they were shuffled off because they had no story to tell there. But arguably the age of the cast today now makes that a potentially very different story, and there could be some decent drama there in an absent-father Lister somehow meeting up with them again. Although, you know, with laughs.

    #258876
    pendo86
    Participant

    I’d love to see an episode exploring what happened to Jim and Bexley. Perhaps a return to the Parallel Universe using the Holly Hop Drive? And an excuse to get the wonderful Hattie back, and perhaps even Angela Bruce, Suzanne Bertish and Matthew Devitt (if he’s still acting 🤷🏻‍♂️).

    We could possibly explore old Lister from Future Echoes, but I don’t know how you’d build a whole episode around that one moment where an old man in a bunk is talking to someone he can’t see. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    The only other loose end I can think of is Kochanski, which I think makes sense to explore. And my theory is that she’s still on board Red Dwarf hiding on another part of the ship.

    I hope Doug doesn’t explore the Series VIII cliffhanger. With the age of the cast, I don’t think there’s any way of producing a satisfactory resolution to the cliffhanger, a flashback wouldn’t work. I think how it was handled in The Beginning was perfect and funny.

    On another note, I’d love for them to do a ‘Back to the Future Part II’ style episode where the crew go back and affect events that we’ve seen happen in Series 1/2. They recreated the old bunk set perfectly in XII and could reproduce some of the other old sets. This might enable them to work in the old Lister scene in Future Echoes. But I’m not sure if they have the budget or technology, or even if it would be possible to successfully blend footage together from the old show with the new.

    #258877
    pendo86
    Participant

    Erm… I typed a response to this thread. Edited it to correct a spelling and now it’s disappeared. Can anyone else see it or has it gone? 😣 Don’t know if it’s some bug on the forum system.

    Anyways, to paraphrase:
    Yes to Jim & Bexley
    Yes to Kochanski
    No to S8 cliffhanger.

    That’s about it. 😂

    #258880
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I don’t know what you’re on about Pendo, your post was there the whole time.

    #258881
    pendo86
    Participant

    😂 whatever you did, thank you 😘

    #258882
    Dave
    Participant

    On another note, I’d love for them to do a ‘Back to the Future Part II’ style episode where the crew go back and affect events that we’ve seen happen in Series 1/2. They recreated the old bunk set perfectly in XII and could reproduce some of the other old sets. This might enable them to work in the old Lister scene in Future Echoes. But I’m not sure if they have the budget or technology, or even if it would be possible to successfully blend footage together from the old show with the new.

    Yeah, I’ve wondered about this before. I guess Trials And Tribble-ations was almost 25 years ago now so presumably something similar would now be possible on a Red Dwarf budget.

    Whether they should, though… I don’t know. It would be an extremely stark reminder of how different the show is today, amd maybe not in a good way.

    I also don’t know what the rights issues around the old episodes are. Didn’t they say there were a lot of hoops to jump through just for the few seconds of footage used in the campaign video in Mechocracy?

    #258883
    clem
    Participant

    Jim and Bexley has potential I think, and the absentee father angle could be good. I was gonna say they’d only be about 7 years younger than Lister, assuming they started aging normally once they were in the parallel universe, but what with all the time Lister’s spent in deep sleep/stasis since then, who knows? If they went with that though, it could maybe tie in with Lister, seeing as he’s his own father, also being the twins’ big half-brother, as well as their dad. It all raises the problem of the future echoes not having happened, of course, including Bexley dying in his mid-twenties…
    Nah, fuck it. Do Kochanski instead.

    #258884
    Dax101
    Participant

    It certainly could invite plot holes to try and deal with that whole Jim and Bexley thing. although lister wouldn’t be the father technically. he would be the mother as he gave birth to them.

    I say just leave it alone. we don’t need to invite possible hic-ups like the cat race leaving before the cat was born in Waiting for God to actually now be left behind by his brother because he wasn’t cool enough.

    #258885
    NoFro
    Participant

    > “What DID Kryten mean when he said “it’s almost to the day?”

    Clearly he meant that everything between Fathers & Suns and Siliconia happened in one day.

    #258886
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    If they did Jim and Bexley I wonder if they could deep fake Craig Charles face onto some actors, that’d be interesting, it’d be like Gemini Man but on a realistic budget. Maybe not doable for an entire episode, but for a scene or two.

    #258887
    Dave
    Participant

    I don’t really mind the odd continuity inconsistency, and I don’t know if I’d avoid an entire story idea for that reason. I was just wondering if there’s really any other major unanswered question for the show on the same scale as the cat race.

    #258888
    pendo86
    Participant

    including Bexley dying in his mid-twenties…

    Of course that happened. How could I forget. Certainly adds a complication. 😂

    I also don’t know what the rights issues around the old episodes are. Didn’t they say there were a lot of hoops to jump through just for the few seconds of footage used in the campaign video in Mechocracy?

    Yes, there were quite a few issues. If I remember correctly, I think it cost them a small fortune to use just a few clips.

    #258889

    I wouldn’t want any messing about in past timelines, especially as back-referencing has been a regular complaint about the Dave era. Entirely new stories, that are worthwhile stories, that allow the option of returning to past plots that have been left open have potential, as The Promised Land showed.
    Series 2, 8 and Kochanski resolutions aside, there’s only one glaring story that needs a proper resolution: how did the crew get off the Encomium? A mini-series exploring that obvious gap in XII’s chronology is pretty essential, I think.

    #258890
    Dax101
    Participant

    Perhaps we should find out what happened to the 2nd Polymorph in series 3. oh wait that was explained in the remastered version…

    #258891
    clem
    Participant

    On second thoughts never mind Kochanski, Jim and Bexley, or what happened after VIII. WHERE’S SNACKY!??

    #258892
    Dave
    Participant

    No, save Snacky for his own spinoff series.

    #258893
    clem
    Participant

    Word.

    #258894
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I had to google “Red Dwarf the Encomium”. Still only watched that episode once

    #258895
    Hamish
    Participant

    Kill two birds with one stone. Show that Kochanski eloped with Snacky.

    #258896
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I’d just like some new ideas rather than revisiting olds ones, tbh.

    #258897
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    In the “repaired” timeline of Timelides, how does Young Rimmer react to Porky beating him to the Tension Sheet after overhearing Old Rimmer?

    #258902
    RealBigOleDummy
    Participant

    Seeing as how The Promised Land hasn’t been released yet for us yanks I haven’t seen the extras or the the episode yet for that matter. But reading the comments so far I can plainly see that I’m in a very small minority when I say …… NO! NO! NO! No more Kochanski! Please, she was and is nothing more than a sidebar to the main story imo. To ME at least she died with the crew… parallel universes/alternate timelines be damned. Let her memory rest in peace.

    While not a “loose end” I would much rather see the boys revisit “Better than Life”. Either just re-do the whole thing but at an hour (with much better graphics) and conform more closely to the novel OR let them find another mail pod with Better than Life 2 inside. “New and improved! Easier to get out of” etc etc. Hell I’d rather they went back and found Butler again and work a story around that. He’s a “loose end” in a way. How about Dave’s “wife” the GELF? Anything but more Kochanski……………………………………..

    #258903
    Dave
    Participant

    Lister’s wife already came back once, I don’t think we need to bump her up to a series regular.

    And I don’t really fancy second cracks at the same idea, even something as potentially enticing as Better Than Life. It would be the same diminishing returns seen with the Polymorph.

    It really is hard to think of something as obvious an unexplored major loose end as the cats without it feeling like a rehash of something they’ve done already.

    (That’s if they’re still intent on not returning to Earth. Because if that’s up for grabs then they could definitely get a special out of that. Although I’m not sure they should.)

    #258904
    Stilianides
    Participant

    In an interview in 2017 Doug was asked about Ace Rimmer and said, “almost certainly we’ll bring him back”. But that he also knows that some fans will whinge about repeating old ideas.

    He also said that filming the unused Kochanski script from Series X is a possibility at some point…

    #258905

    I’d just like some new ideas rather than revisiting olds ones, tbh.

    Yeah, I mean M Corp and Skipper had a lot of brilliant stuff that felt totally new and yet classic Dwarf (alongside a bunch of fan service, to be fair), to the extent that I was feeling very positive about the future of the show. As good as The Promised Land was, I really would just like a self-contained series of six episodes, each with a totally new idea in it, like M Corp and Skipper mostly were.

    #258906
    clem
    Participant

    > He also said that filming the unused Kochanski script from Series X is a possibility at some point…

    I didn’t know he’d talked about that so recently. This is a lot of speculation but there was an interview in Starburst shortly before X aired where he said the last two episodes were dropped because they required location filming, which they couldn’t afford. Kochanski was meant to be in at least one of those episodes, and I wondered why she wasn’t in XI or XII. There was a big enough budget for location shoots on those series, and you’d think Doug would use existing scripts if he possibly could, given he had 12 episodes to come up with in a relatively short time. He might have gone off the idea of bringing her back at the time, Chloe might have been unavailable or unwilling to return, or maybe there still wasn’t enough money to realise those episodes the way Doug wanted. OR maybe he was already thinking about doing specials in future and has been saving those scripts rather than making them as an end of series two-parter.

    #258908
    Stilianides
    Participant

    > I didn’t know he’d talked about that so recently. This is a lot of speculation but there was an interview in Starburst shortly before X aired where he said the last two episodes were dropped because they required location filming, which they couldn’t afford. Kochanski was meant to be in at least one of those episodes, and I wondered why she wasn’t in XI or XII.

    Well, I think the full quote from 2017 was along the lines of…it’s possible that we’ll make that Kochanski episode, but that character isn’t part of the show anymore.

    So possible rather than probable perhaps.

    #258911
    Dax101
    Participant

    Well i get the impression Doug wasn’t confident that Dave would give them another series after 10. so he probably was thinking about what would be a good possible last episode. and i guess Kochanski was that idea originally.

    Obviously, though Doug has said he wants to keep final episodes open and not completely end the show. so the reset button probably would have been hit somehow.

    #259081
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    Kochanski works better as an ideal, a goal for Lister. That she’s out there, somewhere, in the great mishmash of time, space, life and death. The hope that he’ll someday be reunited with his ex-planet and his ex-girlfriend keeps him going.

    I don’t think we really need an explanation for what happened at the end of VIII, it’s been effectively handwaved in the same manner that Lister’s pregnancy and the Future Selves attack were. Something happened, and they were able to save Red Dwarf.

    The way I see it, the crew got back in the nick of time with the cesiumfrancolithicmixialibidiumrixydixydoxydexydroxide and Ace Rimmer turned up to train Nano Rimmer as his replacement, returning to his rightful place aboard Red Dwarf.

    #259082

    As ever, I think Karnie’s Homecoming fanfic does a better job of tying up the VIII loose ends than Doug probably could. It’s canon for me.

    Doug doesn’t want to do a ‘final’ episode, in the sense of the Seinfeld one or such, but is happy for them to carry on journeying through space. At the same time, there will be a point where it’s likely it’ll be the last story – either the next production block or the one after – and I think that would be a good time to bring back Kochanski. Writing her back in as a positive addition to Lister’s life as we see them flying off into the distance one last time would be a nice way to end the show without it being written as a definite ‘ending’.

    #259083
    Dax101
    Participant

    I don’t think Doug will bring back Kochanski until he is certain the show is ending. i don’t think he wants to bring her back and then write her out again. and he clearly feels the show works better without her.

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