Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Misheard lines

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  • #228900

    And imagine if in Porridge it turned out that Fletcher was his own Dad, but nobody seemed to mind because they had one good scene together in an episode with all racist vending machines.

    #228903
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    To be fair, is there any particular reason why Kryten could not have just tinkered with the rejuvenation shower to alter what time period it sent you to?

    Yeah, this is why I said it was “believable” that they wouldn’t be able to use the other time travel methods to get back to Earth, rather than, say, “made clear”.

    Take the rejuvenation shower. Its intended function isn’t time travel, and even with effort they’re only able to go back and forth between 23 AD Earth and present day Red Dwarf. They may not actually explain that they can’t reverse engineer the shower to take them back to Earth in the correct time period, but it’s not too difficult to assume that.

    With the time drive, they actually straight up show us that they can use it to get to anywhere in the universe at any point in time, and then they also show us that they can direct it perfectly. That’s why the time drive (in Series 7 at least) is the laziest time travel plot device.

    Also, can I just apologise for helping completely derail this decade old thread about misheard dialogue? I’m so sorry.

    #228907
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    >If memory serves, Kryten poses the question “Did the rod do this?”…and it’s never actually answered. Obviously, the intention is that the rod *did* do it, but it’s never explored.
    All of Kryten’s “best guess”-es are basically this, he just happens to be right

    #228908
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Also they stick together because Stockholm Syndrome/the’ve grown to like each other (aw bless)/this is the only life they’ve known for 30 years/it would be difficult for them to re-integrate into society/Rimmer would probably have to be turned off/What would they do with Kryten in the past

    #228915
    bloodteller
    Participant

    >this is the only life they’ve known for 30 years

    i think they covered that at the end of the Backwards novel, didn’t they? where lister finally gets back to Red Dwarf, is genuinely happy to see the others again and realises that maybe this is where he truly belongs- it’s his home.

    probably helped a bit that they had already found Earth by then and it was all covered in garbage and stuff though

    #228934

    At the end of The Beginning, Rimmer echos “the slims coming home” line from The End (god damn you Doug Naylor!!)

    Anyway … you could read that as the crew now treating Red Dwarf as their true home, and not just a place to stay on their return to Earth.

    At this point all the characters have spent more time in deep space than on Earth. In fact, Lister may well be the only character to have ever actually lived on Earth. Rimmer is from Io, Kryten was likely built off world then switched on on the Nova 5. Cat grew up on Red Dwarf.

    I can buy them not really bathing to try and get back, but just live day to day in floating through space and convienently ignoring ways in which they could get to Earth if they wanted.

    #228938
    bloodteller
    Participant

    i guess you can say that ultimately the ship has become their home, and maybe the trip back to Earth was more about the journey than the destination, but I still think it leaves a huge loose end open if they never get back.

    then again i suppose the show definitely absolutely ends forever once they do get back, so i guess it’s only fair that they aren’t in any real hurry

    #228945
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I don’t mind believing that Lister and Rimmer have grown to accept their situation, see Red Dwarf as their home now etc., but if they get handed an easy and instantaneous way to get back to Earth/Io, to see friends and family, to see human civilisation again, then you’d think they’d at least discuss the idea at great length, not just never mention it or casually dismiss it in a few lines of dialogue cut from the broadcast version of the episode.

    “Look out Earth – the slime’s coming home!” is something of a mission statement for the whole series. If they’re going to completely change their minds about trying to achieve that, it should be properly acknowledged. If they’re not going to change their minds, then Doug shouldn’t hand them that show-concluding equipment unless he actually intends to conclude the show.

    #228947
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Slim’s Coming Home? Is Eminem going to guest star in Red Dwarf XIII?

    #228948
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    >to see friends and family
    Rimmer doesn’t care about his family and Lister doesn’t have any, though? And Lister’s friends died on Red Dwarf, then were resurrected so he could see them again, then dies again.

    #228954
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    You think a gregarious person such as Lister would have no friends whatsoever apart from his work colleagues?

    And Rimmer may hate his family, but Better Than Life showed that his feelings towards them were not black and white.

    Essentially, the idea that Rimmer and Lister have come to terms with their situation and are happy on Red Dwarf is fine, but the idea that they would actively choose it over getting to speak to/touch other human beings than each other, over seeing the ocean again, over touching grass or smelling flowers, over seeing the sun rise – without even thinking about it – is 100% absurd.

    #228955
    Hamish
    Participant

    > I can buy them not really bathing to try and get back

    I’m sorry, I make errors like this all the time, but this made me laugh too much not to draw attention to it. I apologize again.

    #228961
    Dave
    Participant

    You think a gregarious person such as Lister would have no friends whatsoever apart from his work colleagues?

    Didn’t Chen, Selby and Petersen work in catering? They weren’t Lister’s work friends.

    I know they were ‘colleagues’ in the sense that they all worked for the same company, but then so did everyone on Red Dwarf (apart from the secret prisoners, I guess).

    But yes, I’m sure he had other friends back on Earth too.

    #228969

    I’m sure they’d go back to Earth on curiosity grounds alone.

    “Hey, shall we see what’s happened to Earth?”
    “Nah, let’s stay here with only each other for company until we die”

    #230053
    bloodteller
    Participant

    i always heard the line about the cooking contest in The Beginning as “Not if it a shoe pastry, you won’t!” turns out it’s actually “choux” which is a much funnier line. i just find it humorous that an insane rogue droid somehow knows how to make obscure pastries.

    maybe he met ainsley harriott at some point

    #230054
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Not a mishead line, but certainly a misdelivered line that always sticks out for me. Just watched Polymorrph and Chris says (about Rimmer’s mum):

    “Very prim, very proper. Some say austere”

    Later, when Kryten (played by Robert Llewellyn) “quotes” Rimmer’s words, it’s become:

    “Very prim, very proper. Almost austere”

    I’m guessing it’s Chris who fluffed, as his line after it is “Some people took her for cold” and the repeat of “Some” never sounds right.

    #230056
    Warbodog
    Member

    Misremembered scene (if this thread can be about anything now):

    I saw Out of Time a couple of times before VII aired (TV repeats), but never remembered or even noticed that Future Starbug shot Present Starbug to make it explode (which happens), I thought it was all down to Rimmer. I’m not claiming a Mandela Effect, I probably just blinked.

    I assumed Rimmer’s plan was to intentionally blow up the ship by shooting some vital system or other (I didn’t realise it was the Time Drive), so that the future selves wouldn’t have a chance to exist and they’d all be back to normal.

    When I saw Tikka and bought the Xtended video, I was sure they’d inserted the firing clip because they wanted to retcon it as a blunder of the future selves, completely robbing Rimmer of his heroic, temporary sacrifice. A sacrifice he admittedly needn’t have bothered making, since they were already being shot at anyway, but come on, I was 11.

    It’ll always be one of my favourites, but the ending of Out of Time is quite unsatisfying as it stands, and confusing since I get mixed up with what’s real, what I thought was real and what was supposed to happen but didn’t, even though I wish it had. The original/deleted ending is much better than the one they or my past self came up with. As long as you cut out “smeg, I’m a hero” which is just awful.

    Sorry, I don’t know what this post is.

    #230057
    Dave
    Participant

    I’ve always been convinced that the original airing never showed the one Starbug firing on the other, as I don’t remember it either. I remember thinking it had been left very ambiguous as to which one it had shown being destroyed.

    #230058
    Warbodog
    Member

    >Sorry, I don’t know what this post is.

    Oh, I remember now: are we supposed to have assumed Rimmer had the “smeg, I’m a hero” gentle fade-out happy ending in mind when he raced to shoot the Time Drive? But was scuppered from doing so by a shocking ending… that will obviously have the same effect anyway? I still don’t like that Rimmer didn’t actually do anything. To Be Continued was still exciting even if there was no jeopardy.

    #230061
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >are we supposed to have assumed Rimmer had the “smeg, I’m a hero” gentle fade-out happy ending in mind when he raced to shoot the Time Drive?

    Yes, I think so. That’s consistent with every ending. His intention is always that “there’s a way out of this”. The only difference is the detail on whether he’s ultimately responsible for saving the day:

    -BROADCAST VERSION-

    Laser from bottom right of screen destroys Starbug.
    Likely Intention: The Timedrive is destroyed by Rimmer, would have been destroyed anyway a second later.
    Consequence: Rimmer = heroic intentions, but doesn’t *technically* save the day.

    -URINE RECYC VERSION-

    A Starbug blows up in an identical explosion, but there’s no red laser and *another* Stabug is also present in the same shot.
    Possibly intended that the Starbug that explodes is the future Starbug, er, disappearing from existence.
    Consequence: Rimmer saves the day. Everyone drinks piss.

    -“SMEG, I’M A HERO VERSION”-
    Rimmer destroys the timedrive. Nothing blows up? The future Starbug fades from existence? He has time to say “Smeg, I’m a hero”
    Consequence: Rimmer saves the day.

    -TIKKA TO RIDE VERSION-
    Additional shot of the other Starbug inserted to reinforce the point that the future selves killed them, and the stuff about Rimmer being the hero wasn’t actually required and confuses things slightly, as he didn’t technically succeed.
    Consequence: Rimmer = heroic intentions, but doesn’t *technically* save the day.

    #230062
    Warbodog
    Member

    Oh yeah, I forgot you only see the laser firing in OOT (as I’ve forgotten every time I’ve ever watched it ever, including recently… no, it’s gone again).

    Pre-Tikka, Rimmer blowing up the ship seemed more likely and memorable to me; post-Tikka the added Starbug clip never sat right, but I didn’t have OOT on video for years to compare, just Tikka and the Smeg Ups botch.

    #230063

    There’s some alternate universe out there where the original ending was used. I’m 100% confident it’s a better universe.

    #230065
    bloodteller
    Participant

    i always assumed Rimmer blowing up the timedrive was what caused the timelines to reset and such, and that it was nothing to do with the future selves blowing up the ship. if he had arrived a second later, the ship would’ve blown up before he could do anything and everyone would have died for real etc.

    side thought: rimmer is unusually serious and responsible in tikka to ride. don’t know if that was intentional or not, but it feels like the events of out of time made him change as a person- he’s genuinely angry with lister for tricking them into using the timedrive again after all that’s happened etc.

    #230066
    Warbodog
    Member

    My Out of Time false memory was probably reinforced because I remember I wrote about it in the diary I’d recently started keeping, inspired by Barry Chuckle starting a diary on Chucklevision. I like how I can remember THAT but can’t remember the famous ending of an episode I’ve watched about 20 times.

    It seems like a lot of people don’t notice the missile in Out of Time or are mixing it up in their memory. From a couple of quick googles:

    http://www.reddwarfforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3193

    He blasts…..there’s a massive explosion…and it ends with “To Be Continued”

    http://www.reviewsbygavrielle.com/dwarf6.shtml

    The crew decide to fight their former selves – all are killed except Rimmer, who blows up Starbug with a bazookoid. To be continued….

    I nearly cheered when Rimmer put the episode out of its misery.

    http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/red-dwarf/feature/a837305/red-dwarf-plot-holes-continuity-errors-unanswered-questions/

    the ‘Stasis Leak’ Lister may have been the ‘evil’ Lister who became a brain in a jar in ‘Out of Time’, before the boys killed them off by destroying the time drive

    [Out of Patience]

    #230069
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >if he had arrived a second later, the ship would’ve blown up before he could do anything and everyone would have died for real etc.

    But the timedrive is on the ship and the ship blows up…? I don’t get the distinction between Rimmer shooting it with a bazookoid or it exploding with the rest of a Starbug a second later via a missile.

    #230071
    bloodteller
    Participant

    yeah but it’s cooler if you see it as rimmer blowing up the timedrive seconds before it’s too late, rather than rimmer blowing up the timedrive but none of it mattering really

    #230081
    Warbodog
    Member

    If Rimmer hadn’t bothered to do anything and the ship hadn’t fired, Future Rimmer could have come aboard the crippled Starbug and had his way with the Time Drive, since he was presumably the only one still around. So Rimmer had the right idea and his future self was an idiot.

    Alternatively, Starbug would fly out the other side of the unreality bubble and find out the encounter with their future selves was disappointingly just a dream. I forgot there was an alternative to all the alternatives.

    #230082
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    My thinking was that Rimmer had succeeded, which was so unbelievable to the others that they refused to accept that he’d been able to display anything even vaguely resembling competency and assumed their future selves had succeeded in destroying the ship.

    But I’m basing that on precisely zero actual evidence.

    #230084
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Future Rimmer could have come aboard the crippled Starbug and had his way with the Time Drive, since he was presumably the only one still around.

    I’d love to know the thinking process behind the editing of those final moments.

    The jolt the crew experience when the gyroscope is hit being identical to the effect used when they enter an unreality pocket is either a silly accident, or entirely intentional.

    The fact that there’s two versions of the same SFX shot means that there was a conscious decision to depict things a certain way. The removal of the other Starbug and the overlay of the laser seems odd, when you consider that (our) Rimmer says “the hull’s going to go”, so the (possible) original intention was that Starbug just blew up from the original barrage of missles. Old Rimmer would probably not have known the hull was gone, but knew the others were dead, so yeah, it would make sense for him to try and board and steal the timedrive rather than continue to fire.

    And the “To be continued” seems kind of strange too. The assurances there was more Red Dwarf means that these guys weren’t going to stay dead. It’s not quite a cliffhanger ending.

    Alas, I’m guessing everyone involved has now forgotten the fine details.

    #230327
    Warbodog
    Member

    In VIII days, I didn’t make the fingers-in-pies connection when Lister says Bob the Skutter has “a claw in every pie.”

    I thought it was a way of saying you get good value with Bob, as if a free metaphorical Skutter claw is included with every pie. That well-known meaning of the phrase.

    #230494
    cwickham
    Participant

    When Rimmer says “clitoris” in Polymorph, I always thought he said “spit on her wrist”.

    #230496
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Eleven year old Paul was convinced the Cat had spotted a Cheese String in Kochanski’s spinning laundry. He would go on to explain that it was ‘black and really, really small’ due to the high temperature inside the washing machine.

    He would also have told you that AstroCuts was located in the ‘Feeder Sector’, and that Red Dwarf’s Second Officer was a guy called Todd Hunter.

    Basically, what I’m saying is – he was an idiot.

    #230498
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Well Toddhunter/Todd Hunter is perfectly understandable

    #230499
    bloodteller
    Participant

    “My name is Katerina Bartikofsky, in past I was Red Dwarf science officer. Stradfordshire.”

    in fact, i still don’t know what she’s saying there tbh

    #230502
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I always thought Kryten was referring to Kochanski as his mother for whatever reason, as in “Ms. Kochanski, mom”.

    #230522
    pi r squared
    Participant

    in fact, i still don’t know what she’s saying there tbh

    Zdravstvuyte – a polite hello in Russian.

    On a related note, there doesn’t seem to have been any news on how Sophie Winkleman is getting on after her car accident a few months back. I wonder how she is doing.

    #230523
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Hadn’t heard about that. Also didn’t know she was Claudia’s (half?) sister, as all the articles readily point out. I guess Claudia is more famous? I only know her from Would I Lie To You.
    All I could find was “The actress remains in hospital and faces weeks of recuperation following the crash 11 days ago”, in an article from December.

    #230540
    Lily
    Participant

    >Well Toddhunter/Todd Hunter is perfectly understandable

    I’m glad you say that, as I always thought it was Todd Hunter …

    #230541
    Dave
    Participant

    It’s Todd Todhunter.

    #230543
    Hamish
    Participant

    Todd a mighty Hunter before the Lord.

    #230544
    bloodteller
    Participant

    when i was younger there was a boy at my school called todd hunter, so naturally i thought todhunter was also called todd hunter.

    #230545
    flanl3
    Participant

    I once knew this guy called Jaron and he was a prick so I assume the inquisitor is called Jaron

    #230552

    Weirdly, I never once thought he was called Todd Hunter. Despite having never come across anybody with the surname before, it just sounded right to me. Maybe also because everybody else was called by their surname so it made sense in that context.

    #230558
    pi r squared
    Participant

    Me too, I think it’s that the stressed syllable is wrong for it to be two different names. Todd Hunter would be TODD-HUNT-er, whereas Tod(d)hunter is more like TODD-hunt-ER. Difficult to explain phonetically (and without going down the route of “what do you want me to call you, rim-MER!?”) but a subtle enough distinction that I think my brain just processed it as one word without me realising. And, you’re right, everyone else is just one name – no-one thinks there’s a guy called Peter Son.

    #230559
    Warbodog
    Member

    I read Todhunter’s correctly-spelled name in the programme guide (and novel?) before I had the chance to see any of his many episode, so I didn’t have that confusion.

    I wonder if kids today with their ubiquitous media ever have to rely on reference materials and their imagination to fill in the blanks? Maybe Doctor Who fans who’ve read up on lore like the Valeyard but can’t be bothered to actually watch the old serials.

    #230562
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    I think for me it stemmed from Kochanski in ‘Duct Soup’ where she seems to pronounce it as Todd Hunter. In ‘The End’ it’s closer to Tod-unter.

    #230586
    Katydid
    Participant

    You could argue that’s down to dialect.

    #230602
    Toxteth O-Grady
    Participant

    I always misheard Spare Head 3’s line as “me circuit boards may have gone bandit..”. I only recently, after 20 odd years, realised he says “bandy”.

    What’s more, as a result of that mishearing, I’ve spent the same 20 odd years believing the word “bandit” to have an extra definition: adj. meaning crazy, out of control, or malfunctioning.
    I’ve even used the word bandit, with this made-up definition, in conversations over the years; oblivious to the fact that I was talking bollocks.

    #230603
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Beautiful.

    As a kid I had no idea what shoals were, so I had many interpretations of that line over the years, including “goldfish shites”

    #230604
    bloodteller
    Participant

    i think i mentioned this on another thread, but when i first watched VIII i thought Kill Crazy was called “Kilk Razey” and it was meant to be a sort of cool punk-type future person name like Zaphod from Hitchhiker’s.

    i also remember watching either Dimension Jump or Tikka To Ride for the first time and hearing Ace’s catchphrase as “don’t be a gimpo, i’ll be back for breakfast” due to the line being muffled as he puts his helmet on

    #230605
    Warbodog
    Member

    When I first saw Confidence and Paranoia, I thought Lister was writhing about in his sleep getting really into a sex dream about an old girlfriend called Cannon Umbrella / Kananam Brella / other likely names.

    #230606

    As a kid I had no idea what shoals were, so I had many interpretations of that line over the years, including “goldfish shites”

    I heard it as “goldfish goes nibbling at my toes” which is, admittedly, less funny than “goldfish shites”.

    #230609
    si
    Participant

    Goldfish shites
    Nibbling at my tights.

    #230612
    Dave
    Participant

    And that one.

    Misheard lines

    #230613
    Dave
    Participant

    Hmmm, that link was meant to lead back to the posts on 28 February in this thread, but it doesn’t seem to have worked. Oh well.

    #230614
    Warbodog
    Member

    I thought ‘Officer Bud-babe’ was ‘Officer Butt-babe’ as a teen, continuing Cat’s established ass obsession. Looks like that one’s pretty common.

    #230620

    It took me a long time to work out that Officer BB was an abbreviation of Officer Bud-Babe, which was Cat’s way of calling her both ‘buddy’ and a ‘babe’.

    #230621
    PFML84
    Participant

    When I was a youngster watching the show, I at times thought it was “goldfish holes” and then that evolved into “goldfisho’s” which I imagined was the evolution of the word goldfish or the species itself since the show was set 3M+ years into in the future. I was fine with it because we had space weevil and GELFs and thought it was just another futuristic term.

    #230637
    si
    Participant

    Been back and had a look at those comments from February 28.
    Congratulations to Dave on his ability to be able to remember things he posted almost two months ago should anyone unknowingly repeat it.

    #230638
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    It took me a long time to work out that Officer BB was an abbreviation of Officer Bud-Babe, which was Cat’s way of calling her both ‘buddy’ and a ‘babe’.

    It doesn’t help that “Officer BB” is the first iteration we hear in Ouroboros, after the initial “Officer Bud-Babe” was cut from the broadcast episode – it’s only there in Xtended.

    #230660
    bloodteller
    Participant

    in Mechocracy, when Lister is reciting his list of bread products to the toaster he says one that sounds like “Sogen” but there’s no such thing. what is he saying there?

    #230661
    Dave
    Participant

    Been back and had a look at those comments from February 28.
    Congratulations to Dave on his ability to be able to remember things he posted almost two months ago should anyone unknowingly repeat it.

    I wasn’t picking on your comment, the whole conversation was just such an exact repeat of that part of the thread from just a few weeks ago that I thought I would make the obvious White Hole joke.

    Sorry that it obviously came across as more pointed than I intended.

    #230664
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    >I’d love to know the thinking process behind the editing of those final moments… The “To be continued” seems kind of strange too. The assurances there was more Red Dwarf means that these guys weren’t going to stay dead. It’s not quite a cliffhanger ending. Alas, I’m guessing everyone involved has now forgotten the fine details.

    I thought there was a scene cut from the end (with the urine moustaches) that explained all this. Have I misremembered?

    #230665
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    The “to be continued” was added in editing, if I recall, with the original ending being the urine moustaches idea.

    #230666
    bloodteller
    Participant

    if you really want to get nitpicky about it, the original ending was to be them all just happily enjoying the wine and going “good year, nice wine” etc.

    supposedly craig charles came up with the idea for the urine re-cyc mustaches during the script readthrough or something, and so they decided to have that as the ending instead.

    #230670

    Urine recyc is obviously a much better ending than ‘To be continued’.

    #230679
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I absolutely cannot agree with that

    #230682
    Dave
    Participant

    Ace Rimmer should have turned up and saved them at the last minute. By kneeing Death in the bollocks.

    #230699
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I’d be fine with Starbug just blowing up, and the credits rolling. The “To be continued” instantly reassures you that they’re not dead. It’s the equivalent of Sherlock popping up at the end of “The Reichenbach Fall”.

    And to be frank, Tikka doesn’t “continue” Out of Time, it just spends 2 minutes explaining what has to happen for there to be more Red Dwarf, and then tells a different story. If you’re killing off all your characters but also promising that they’ll be more episodes, you’re immediately telling your audience that when you come back, you’re going to retcon the shit out of everything that’s just happened.

    #230700
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    The “to be continued” is just to assure people that the show isn’t over for good, same reason for “the smeg it is”, although the second time ’round it took a lot longer to bring it back.

    #230703
    si
    Participant

    Been back and had a look at those comments from February 28.
    Congratulations to Dave on his ability to be able to remember things he posted almost two months ago should anyone unknowingly repeat it.

    I wasn’t picking on your comment, the whole conversation was just such an exact repeat of that part of the thread from just a few weeks ago that I thought I would make the obvious White Hole joke.

    Sorry that it obviously came across as more pointed than I intended.

    No, no, you’re alright, I was just being funny in a sarcastic manner, not being mardy.

    #230708
    Dave
    Participant

    Ah ok, good.

    So it’s decided then, we consult Holly.

    #230709

    I absolutely cannot agree with that

    Oh good, we’ve agreed on some things recently and I was getting worried! :D

    I don’t like the ‘To be continued’ ending. I think the actual phrase is fine – if it was planned to be the last episode ever we’d have known it, so we always knew they’d get out alive anyway. It’s the same as the cliffhangers in new Doctor Who, nobody ever thinks “oh shit The Doctor’s not going to get out of this one and it’ll be the end of life on Earth”, so ‘to be continued’ works fine. See also: every use of ‘to be continued’ in every TV series and film ever.

    I just don’t really like it as a cliffhanger, and I particularly don’t like the resolution and continuation of the time drive and the way it was all handled after that. Generally, a cliffhanger works well when placed mid-way through a story, and the Out of Time one just feels like “we didn’t know how to end it”. It would be like Queeg ending with Holly being shut down. The fact that we could have been rid of the time drive but we ended up with series VII’s “we could return to Red Dwarf at any point but we don’t use the time drive because of a totally irrelevant explanation from Tikka to Ride” nonsense instead just makes it worse.

    The only Red Dwarf cliffhanger I like is the one at the end of Parallel Universe, and that’s because it’s done with a joke that makes it seem intentionally and entertaining.

    #230712
    Dave
    Participant

    Thinking about it, the first three episodes of Series I all feel like they end on a bit of a cliffhanger, don’t they? And Confidence & Paranoia.

    I know they’re not really treated as such, but they all leave a story idea hanging in a way that makes you keen to see what happens next.

    #230713
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >It’s the same as the cliffhangers in new Doctor Who, nobody ever thinks “oh shit The Doctor’s not going to get out of this one and it’ll be the end of life on Earth”
    >See also: every use of ‘to be continued’ in every TV series and film ever.

    I can’t think of an episode (not even a season finale) in Doctor Who which ends with the Doctor dead and the TARDIS destroyed. Can you give an example in a TV show where there’s a “To be continued” caption after every main character has been killed?

    It just seems a bit surplus to requirements, really. I think I’d have preferred the “They can’t end it like this!!” outrage to the reassuring “They’ll be back in Series VII”. If you’re ahead of the story, you’re going to have a (likely correct) theory on how they get out of it and know the show isn’t over. The caption just kind of spoon-feeds you. And when Tikka finishes the job, it’s a “well, duh” moment.

    You know, the unreality bubbles thing might have been more satisfying,

    #230714

    Well, The Pandorica Opens ends with The Doctor locked in the Pandorica, everybody else dead, and the destruction of the entire universe outside of Earth. Followed by ‘to be continued’.

    I get where you’re coming from, but I think unless an episode is very specifically marketed as ‘the last ever episode’ then the audience are going to assume that there’ll be a resolution, so it doesn’t really bother me whether they use the caption or not.

    #230718
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Doctor dead, Under the Lake. Caves of Androzani as well. Tardis destroyed, The Mind Robber, The Magician’s Apprentice. Both? Probably not.

    Doctor Who cliffhangers have always been contrived, a necessity of the format, but some of them are really good, like Turlough going off the edge in Enlightenment or The Master turning up with a bunch of Daleks in Frontier In Space. Which the next episode doesn’t even attempt to pretend happened, in one of the biggest disappointments the show has ever thrown at us.

    #230721
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Cliffhangers aren’t “well, they’re not going to get out of that!“, they’re “Ooh ‘Eck, how’re they going to get out of that?!” – knowing that the Master replacing the entire human race with duplicates will be undone before he regenerates in “The End of Time – Part 2” didn’t stop me from experiencing anxiety over how it’d be undone when the credits were rolling at the end of part 1.

    Anyone who dismisses cliffhangers as pointless because of a lack of genuine peril isn’t watching TV properly and should hand in their sets immediately.

    #230722
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Some Who cliffhangers are absolute, clunkers, though, and only exist to create artificial drama in stories that don’t benefit from them (the Doctor gets imprisoned only to immediately escape, three times). They do provide an opportunity to go for a walk or get a drink or something, check Twitter, every twenty five minutes, so that’s nice. Also plenty of lame resolutions (Genesis of the Daleks) and occasionally events shown out of sequence to create a truly artificial cheat of a cliffhanger (Image of the Fendahl).

    #230725

    Yes, a lot of Who cliffhangers aren’t cliffhangers at all – Death to the Daleks’s “oh no, it’s a coloured tile!”, Trial of a Timelord’s “The Doctor pulls yet another expression”, Mark of the Rani’s “oh no the Doctor’s fallen down, actually he hasn’t and you only thought you saw him actually fall down the hole last week but you didn’t, honest”, Dragonfire’s “I’m just going to hang off this cliff for a while, that’s how you do a cliffhanger isn’t it?”, The Curse of Fenric’s “lots of batshit crazy stuff happens and then – The Doctor pulls a face!” etc. It was a necessity of the serial format, and thus occasionally tedious, although frequently brilliant.

    The best example of a serialised show’s use of a cliffhangers I can think of is Lost. Some episodes ended on a cliffhanger, others didn’t. They were utilised only when necessary.

    #230726
    Dave
    Participant

    All the shit Doctor Who cliffhangers in the world are worth it for the end of the first part of Remembrance Of The Daleks.

    #230727
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Death to the Daleks is fucking hilarious. Needless to say, that wasnt the originally written cliffhanger, it was a result of editing. Laugh at Trial all you want but the genocode cliffhanger is pretty hot stuff. JNT insisted for a while that all cliffhangers end on a shot of The Doctor, resulting in some absolutely ludicrous stills. The Fenric cliffhanger in question is brilliant, though. The Zygon reveal in their eponymous debut is great as well.

    Chuck has some brilliant cliffhangers, ones that make you really unwilling to go to bed with that kind of lore shattering zinger enticing you to watch more. They also don’t use them every single episode.

    #230728
    Dave
    Participant

    24 was always pretty great at whipping out a compelling cliffhanger (or several) even when the episode itself hadn’t been much cop. Watching it on DVD it was pretty much impossible to avoid sitting down and watching a whole disc’s worth.

    #230729
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I think that was me with Enlightenment. “Meh, this is pretty bor-holy SHIT I can’t stop watching now”

    #230730

    The Fenric cliffhanger in question is brilliant, though.

    Oh yes, it’s great, there’s this wonderful sense of “What the fuck is going on? Wait, what was that? NOW what’s going on?” in the last 30 seconds, but as the wonderful cliffhanger-themed documentary on one of the DVDs points out, it was decided to end on McCoy pulling a slightly confused face. Colossal and strangely underwhelming at the same time, in a way that only classic Who can do.

    24 was always pretty great at whipping out a compelling cliffhanger (or several) even when the episode itself hadn’t been much cop.

    It had a lot of these, didn’t it? I’m sure it was FlashForward that did the same sort of thing, with the plot only really moving forward in the last two minutes of each episode.

    #230737
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    Wasn’t it one of JNT’s perculiar diktats that a cliffhanger should be a semi-closeup of the Doctor looking serious/worried/in pain?

    #230738
    Hamish
    Participant

    > the Doctor gets imprisoned only to immediately escape

    Wait, does this mean that Timewave was originally going to be a two-parter?

    #230739
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Yeah Percy they talk about it on the DVD for terror of the Vervoids, where one cliffhanger absolutely does not need or desevre a shot of the docotr but had to have one

    #230752

    JNT made some really, really bad decisions, didn’t he?

    #230758
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    JNT loved the show, made some great decisions and fought harder than anyone to keep the show on the air, for which i commend him, but yes, he made some horrible decisions as well. He was a complex character.

    #230759
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    They don’t end with a to be continued but I liked it when they killed off all the characters in Black Adder II. (Goes Forth was affecting, too, but somehow less chilling.)
    And I was genuinely upset to see Richie and Eddie get shot at the end of Bottom 3.

    #230763
    Warbodog
    Member

    >I was genuinely upset to see Richie and Eddie get shot at the end of Bottom 3.

    I just thought it was funny, but I was sad there wouldn’t be any more, since it definitely felt final in a way that falling to their deaths five weeks earlier didn’t. Probably because they made a point of unambiguously and vividly showing the slaughter, I got the message.

    #230768
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    Apparently there was an announcer over the credits that they’d return. In my torment, I missed this. Probably didn’t hear over the sound of my own wailing.
    I certainly didn’t find it funny. Still don’t. Poignant, perhaps.

    #230771

    They wrote a fourth series, didn’t they?

    #230773
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Google turns up an apparently rejected fourth series of scripts and a lovely quote of Rik calling the person responsible for the rejection a “lesbian bitch”. http://lostmediaarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Bottom_Series_Four_(BBC-Rejected_Scripts;_Mid-to-Late_1990s)

    Also a G+T forum discussion, funnily enough. https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/so-a-4th-series-of-bottom-is-on-the-way/

    #230774
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    According to Ade the fourth series was chopped up and stuck into live shows, so we didn’t miss anything.

    #230776
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    <<JNT loved the show, made some great decisions and fought harder than anyone to keep the show on the air, for which i commend him, but yes, he made some horrible decisions as well. He was a complex character.>>

    I’ve always attributed a lot of his poor story decisions to the fact that he was the only Producer to have worked his way up from the floor, unlike other producers who’d mostly been writers, script editors and directors. They were more likely be able to spot plotholes or know what wouldn’t work on screen for dramatic reasons rather than someone more used to booking studio time and hiring lighting rigs.

    #230777
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Yeah he wasn’t great on scripts, and according to Saward the quality of scripts they were getting at the time was fairly… shall I say low, meaning Saward had to basically re-write a lot of his era. JNT had mad ideas like “do an episode called Greatest Show in the Galaxy, what do you mean what’s the plot? Write it”, and “oh do an episode in Amsterdam.” And he refused to work with writers who had written for the show before, Saward having to convince him to let Robert Holmes write (one of) his best scripts for them.

    But that story about him refusing to let another Shada Moment happen and getting Greatest Show made by any means necessary shows to me that he at least did some good things. And the endgame Cartmel stuff happened with (in spite of?) him, which was good.

    #230781
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    On the one hand, it was a good piece of blue sky thinking to open up the policy for new writers, but at the same time a bad move to blackball old hands – Robert Holmes, Terrence Dicks, the Bristol Boys etc. could all be relied upon to bring in a good idea and knew what worked and could deliver a script which was servicable from the get go.

    My problem with Eric Saward is that he never seemed interested in writing for the Doctor. He was more interested in his own vision of gritty scifi, hence why his scripts are filled with tough space marines and ruthless gun runners instead.

    #230782

    Yes, there’s a lot of very generic sci-fi going on in the Davison and Colin eras. Some strong stories, but very little that really sticks in the mind in the way so many ’60s and ’70s stories do. It took until the McCoy era for the show to start really trying to be different and surprising again, even if it started that task by pretending to be an under-budgeted CBBC comedy about aliens.

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