Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Doomitron]

Ah, a man of wise judgement, if I do say so myself.

[Warbodog]

BBC era: 1, Chris. 2, Robert.

Dave era: 3, Chris. 4, Robert.

Srehtorb Esrever Lanoitasnes Eht

[Technopeasant]

You’re right. I demand a sequel. This is the kind of cat lore still yet to be revealed.

[Technopeasant]

You’re right. I demand a sequel. This is the kind of cat lore still yet to be revealed.

[Technopeasant]

[clem]

Craig is the best actor of the four.

(Overall I agree with you, I just really love that gif.)

[Rushy]

I would agree with Craig shining in the Dave era, but it comes with the asterisk that he feels more distinct from his BBC self than any of the others. Not in a bad way, but just very different. 

Lister always had that plucky, innocent charm to him. Craig nowadays is an extension of Craig – sly

[Podey]

All of the characters feel distinct from their BBC versions, but Lister is the only one who doesn’t feel like an exaggeration/parody of the BBC counterpart. 

[Rushy]

He has this strange sort of gentlemanly quality to him that I don’t think existed in Lister at all until Back to Earth. Even his eyes look different somehow. The old Lister always had this slightly dimwitted expression to him. Now there’s clarity and introspection. 

If I’m honest, it probably is just Craig aging into a different sort of person and performer, but it stood out to me because I paid so much attention to Craig in the DVD commentaries, and noticed that he came across very much like Lister in the Dave era. 

[Rushy]

Lister is the only one who doesn’t feel like an exaggeration/parody of the BBC counterpart. 

If needs be, I will die alone on the hill that the Dave era Cat is definitive, and the BBC counterpart a joke by comparison. The improvements in both the material and Danny’s talent need to be recognised by someone, by jove.

[Moonlight]

I think Series X Cat is noticeably stronger than in the following two series but he’s good across all of them.

[gerrydelasel]

[Rushy]

Why does Series III suddenly have its own Wiki page, but not the rest?
For years, it was just X that had its own, which I chalked up to it being the first season of the revival. But III? What’s all that about?

Edit: VI, VII and VIII too! 

[Warbodog]

I see the ‘Home video releases’ section detailing all the obsolete VHS releases and their catalogue numbers is still handily present on the show’s main Wikipedia page.

And that custom level for Worms.

[Doomitron]

Why does Series III suddenly have its own Wiki page, but not the rest?
For years, it was just X that had its own, which I chalked up to it being the first season of the revival. But III? What’s all that about?
Edit: VI, VII and VIII too! 

Morwen and I (occasionally) are working our way to adding them all. Takes time.

[Technopeasant]

And that custom level for Worms.

I did that. It had a “reliable source” so I went for it.

Morwen and I (occasionally) are working our way to adding them all. Takes time.

I haven’t been this happy since someone finally made bespoke articles for each major Unreal Engine version.

[Moonlight]

The impetus of this was I believe me saying we should finish the XI article I started back in 2016 that never stuck around because it didn’t have enough diversity of sources.

[tombow]

I only ever tried to edit a wiki page once, it was in 2004 or so, and it was the page for Horror author Richard Laymon, who I was a really big fan of at the time. His then entry was just a brief paragraph saying his date of birth and death, and a couple of his novels. I added the awards he’d won and some stuff from his book cover bio. Then some guy on the talk page said “this thing needs an overhaul” and rewrote it all, which disheartened me as my edit was gone. Of course now Laymon’s wiki page is an in-depth, book-length biography with essays on his importance to the now-coined “splatterpunk” genre.

[Ben Saunders]

I corrected some grammar/typos on a couple Doctor Who episode pages the other day. You’re welcome.

[Technopeasant]

On Wikipedia I mostly just do structural or tidying edits. Just not worth anything more in depth just to see it wiped.

[Warbodog]

vs.

You guys.

[Ben Saunders]

There are people out there who will have every TNG VHS, probably taking up an entire room and costing them a thousand pounds. The real fans.

[Warbodog]

I mean, it doesn’t even mention (from memory) the 1998 re-releases (that stopped at season 4 or 5), the four-episode rental exclusives, the Borg Box, the 10 “feature-length TV movie” re-releases, the Best of Both Worlds “Greatest Battles” re-release, trivia like some cover screenshots mistakenly using rehearsal footage and some episodes being the wrong way around. Probably because it’s the show’s main Wikipedia page and not a deep page on a dedicated fan wiki, I guess.

[tombow]

I bought piles of 90s trek VHS tapes from a charity shop 15 years ago, being sold for something like 5 for a pound. I remember liking the episodes lower decks in season 7. A few years ago replaced them all with £1 a season charity shop dvd sets.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I bought piles of 90s trek VHS tapes from a charity shop 15 years ago, being sold for something like 5 for a pound. I remember liking the episodes lower decks in season 7.

I bought the entirety of DS9 on VHS from a bloke in Shepherds Bush for £10 probably around 2006

I lived at the complete other end of the central line and have to carry them all home in a box

Not too long later I bought I think every Star Trek VHS (at least every episode on VHS) at that point from a bloke in Southend for something ridiculous like £20. So I had all TOS, TNG, DS9 (again), VOY and maybe ENT

i believe TOS went to a friend and I sold DS9 duplicates at a boot sale 

I likely sold the rest at a boot sale once I’d watched them, or tossed them in the tip once I finally moved out on my own. Or they rotted in a garage for years until my mum moved again.

[Technopeasant]

Yeah, my wife likes collecting old VHS tapes but I’ve told her television shows just aren’t worth the space (well, British shows are usually okay). Been buying the Bluray for TOS, TAS, and TNG (and will for Enterprise and possibly Strange New Worlds eventually). My brother torrented fan remasters of DS9 and Voyager, especially in light of this…

[Warbodog]

I enthusiastically collected and watched the hell out of Star Trek videos from 1997-2000 (seemed longer in tween years), but probably “only” had about 100 of them, gaps all over the place. Then I didn’t care any more and took them along to a car boot my mum was doing where someone offered me £60 for the lot, I had my shelves back. I just watch them online when I feel like it now.

[Warbodog]

Watching old VHS trailers on YouTube, it’s funny to be reminded of the promise that classic films on tape are “now yours to cherish forever!” just a few short years before DVD ads would shit all over them and boast of their own superlative quality. What optimistic days they were.

[tombow]

I’m still confused by those adverts that showed the difference in quality between VHS and DVD…on VHS tapes. How did they get the quality in the DVD half of the screen?

[Warbodog]

“This is DVD!”

This guy was not prepared for DVD.

[Technopeasant]

I’m still confused by those adverts that showed the difference in quality between VHS and DVD…on VHS tapes. How did they get the quality in the DVD half of the screen?

Best guess, degrade the VHS side as if played a couple dozen times. Not really a lie there.

[Technopeasant]

Why does Rimmer in particular care about a potential loss of heat in Mechocracy? Perhaps he is programmed to feel cold, but he wouldn’t die.

[Dave]

Why does Rimmer in particular care about a potential loss of heat in Mechocracy? Perhaps he is programmed to feel cold, but he wouldn’t die.

[Rushy]

Why does Rimmer in particular care about a potential loss of heat in Mechocracy? Perhaps he is programmed to feel cold, but he wouldn’t die.

You can probably chalk that up to a veiled concern for Lister. 

Or maybe he’s got a secret allotment and he’s concerned for his magnolias. 

[Ben Saunders]

[Flap Jack]

I’m still confused by those adverts that showed the difference in
quality between VHS and DVD…on VHS tapes. How did they get the quality
in the DVD half of the screen?

Reminds me of this George Takei “Quattron” ad campaign where he acknowledges the fact that he can’t actually demonstrate what an RGBY display looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrMKBE3UHg

It’s probably just a mis-memory, but at the time I remember only seeing an edited down version of the ad which didn’t include the acknowledgements, and I felt oh so clever to realise that it didn’t make sense.

[Frank Lewis]

I mean, it doesn’t even mention (from memory) the 1998 re-releases (that stopped at season 4 or 5), the four-episode rental exclusives, the Borg Box, the 10 “feature-length TV movie” re-releases, the Best of Both Worlds “Greatest Battles” re-release, trivia like some cover screenshots mistakenly using rehearsal footage and some episodes being the wrong way around. Probably because it’s the show’s main Wikipedia page and not a deep page on a dedicated fan wiki, I guess.

Thanks for listing all those. I wish the total planned Wolf 359 Battle for DS9’s Emissary was available online.

[Moonlight]

Reminds me of this George Takei “Quattron” ad campaign where he acknowledges the fact that he can’t actually demonstrate what an RGBY display looks like.

God, I almost forgot about Quattron. One of those TV technologies that was meant to be the next big thing in the 2010s and then died, like 3D TVs. Considering most 3D movies available were converted in post and not shot in 3D, those demos looked fucking awful. Did you have ViewMasters in the UK? It looked like one of those where it’s a bunch of completely flat layers in a space with depth. Turned me off the technology forever.

[Technopeasant]

Watching old VHS trailers on YouTube, it’s funny to be reminded of the promise that classic films on tape are “now yours to cherish forever!”

[Technopeasant]

Made the mistake of searching “cold” on the Smegadrive to try and find counter examples…

[Warbodog]

Did you have ViewMasters in the UK? It looked like one of those where it’s a bunch of completely flat layers in a space with depth.

I had one that came with Transformers reels, it was like a cool, futuristic storybook. It didn’t occur to me to ask for more.

[Dave]

I had tons of Viewmaster discs. Mainly Thomas the Tank Engine for some reason.

[Warbodog]

28 years old, he was.

[Flap Jack]

My brother torrented fan remasters of DS9 and Voyager, especially in light of this…

Having now watched this video and looked at the comments, I think you should be fine to pick up the DVDs of those Star Trek series. You just need to be more diligent in sniffing out bootlegs than this YouTuber was.

[Technopeasant]

I absolutely could find full DVD quality yeah with a bit of diligence, but if I can find other copies that are cleaned up more than Paramount is willing to bother they don’t need my dollars on these.

[Rushy]

Why does Rimmer keep doing this every time he talks about Yvonne McGruder? Is it some British sex thing?

Don’t tell me he fisted the poor woman

[Doomitron]

The hand he uses to grasp around his bicep is the vagina and his arm making the fist is the penis I’m assuming.

[Podey]

Yeah, it’s essentially this. 

Side note: I initially wanted an image of Rik Mayall doing this so I put into Google “sex gesture fingers bottom”… It did not produce the intended results.

[Doomitron]

We need a Smega Drive/Frinkiac for Bottom + the Live Shows and Guest House Paradiso, I’d be using it in daily conversations via text

[Warbodog]

It feels like the most obscene thing in Red Dwarf to me, but I don’t have the most reliable sense of these things. (The slightly controversial “twat” seemed fairly harmless and equivalent to “prat” when I was growing up).

[Author]

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