Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Professor Flibble]

or “Lister is so gross even a Kryten is grossed out”
speaking of which, has Lister’s grossness ever genuinely made any of you feel sick? I don’t like that sneeze ironing thing he does in BTE and I hate that whole stuff with his teeth and the floss in Ouroboros.

Yeah the sneeze ironing is iirc pretty much the only thing he’s done that’s ever grossed me out

[Dave]

speaking of which, has Lister’s grossness ever genuinely made any of you feel sick?

All those times he tries to trick or coerce Kochanski into sex.

[Flap Jack]

not sure I remember this image

It’s the immediate aftermath of Lister giving aggressive mouth-to-mouth to the window of the quarantined garbage pod/Quagaar ship room in Waiting for God.

[Technopeasant]

Yeah the sneeze ironing is iirc pretty much the only thing he’s done that’s ever grossed me out

That was deliberately a bit though. It’d be different if it was a sincere habit.

[Nick R]

Lister broke his programming so he doesn’t like doing it anymore.
Except for the times when he does like doing it.

[Ben Saunders]

Kryten is happy to serve Lister, he just relishes finally being above somebody and able to boss them around for once.

All those times he tries to trick or coerce Kochanski into sex.

How many times does he do this? He lets her make out with him for a while once. 

[Rushy]

Does Stasis Leak count? He could’ve just warned Kochanski (not to mention the rest of the crew) to get off the ship, or repair the drive plate earlier. 

Instead, he’s going to have her go into stasis so she’d be trapped three million years in the future with him. 

[Moonlight]

This is what I would consider a Gilligan’s Island Moment where they have a clear opportunity to escape the setting of the show by doing something obvious and the force of the status quo will not allow them.

[Dave]

How many times does he do this? He lets her make out with him for a while once. 

I was thinking more the stuff with the sexual magnetism virus, but yeah there’s also the pretending to be alt-Lister, the angling to stay in the room while she has a bath, watching the shower room broadcast rather than warning her about it, all that stuff feels out of character for the Lister that we know from pre-VII episodes who generally seems to respect women and even actively criticises Rimmer for thinking he has to trick his way into their affections.

[Dave]

Does Stasis Leak count? He could’ve just warned Kochanski (not to mention the rest of the crew) to get off the ship, or repair the drive plate earlier. 

Of course he does actually do the first one in that episode, it’s just a future him that does it.

Repairing the drive plate presumably creates too much of a paradox to work.

[Frank Smeghammer]

It has honestly never occurred to me before that Kochanski is on planet leave in Stasis Leak and he could have just warned her not to get back on Red Dwarf and save her life

That’s going to bother me all day now

[Ian Symes]

There is something I am dying to say, but it’s a day early.

[Dave]

There is something I am dying to say, but it’s a day early.

Is it “happy birthday to Will Ferrell”?

(But yeah, I’ve been catching myself doing this ever since the weekend.)

[tombow]

remember that weird, possibly Dwarf influenced, film “Passengers” with Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence, where he dooms her to be lost in space with him forever? I remember reading that the script was in production for 5-10 years, and Keanu Reeves was even signed on before Pratt for a couple of years. Yet as soon as it came out the public rejected the premise as weird and dodgy.

[tombow]

Clip of Emile Charles in 90s kid’s burger bar sitcom “Spatz” at 40.00

[Technopeasant]

From dodgy to shady in two posts.

[Technopeasant]

* wrong thread, move along *

[Professor Flibble]

[loadoftottnumb]

When he bites his toenails 🤮

[Technopeasant]

remember that weird, possibly Dwarf influenced, film “Passengers” with Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence, where he dooms her to be lost in space with him forever? I remember reading that the script was in production for 5-10 years, and Keanu Reeves was even signed on before Pratt for a couple of years. Yet as soon as it came out the public rejected the premise as weird and dodgy.

The fixation on Lawrence’s character specifically is creepy, but the need for some form of companionship is understandable, and at least the morality of it is the main conflict rather than handwaved.

[Podey]

I am (unironically) delighted to see that the new audiobook maintains the tradition of having a shit version of the theme tune at the start.

[Ben Saunders]

The fixation on Lawrence’s character specifically is creepy, but the need for some form of companionship is understandable, and at least the morality of it is the main conflict rather than handwaved.

Yeah, rejecting the premise out of hand is slightly bizarre because surely that’s what the movie is going to be about. It feels like an early example of the Twitter brand of criticism, single out one thing about a movie/game months before its release and do a big faux-woke or criticism of it for engagement, gather up all your likes and retweets and discourse and then probably never actually engage with the thing once it’s out, the damage to its reputation having already been done with everybody just parroting your opinion like mindless sheep. The Asmongold Effect. PNG windows, etc.

[Rushy]

Rereading Backwards as I wait for my copy of Titan to arrive, and I noticed that Rob uses the acronym “RV” for rendezvous. As in

“When we RV with Red Dwarf, we can tow Starbug in”

Is that an acronym people actually use, or a Doug-ism that crossed over? 

[Rudolph]

or “Lister is so gross even a Kryten is grossed out”
speaking of which, has Lister’s grossness ever genuinely made any of you feel sick? I don’t like that sneeze ironing thing he does in BTE and I hate that whole stuff with his teeth and the floss in Ouroboros.

The amount of times we see Lister sleeping not only in his clothes, but with his shoes still on.

[Podey]

Rereading Backwards as I wait for my copy of Titan to arrive, and I noticed that Rob uses the acronym “RV” for rendezvous. As in
“When we RV with Red Dwarf, we can tow Starbug in”
Is that an acronym people actually use, or a Doug-ism that crossed over? 

I feel like I have heard it before.

(probably in Backwards…)

[Moonlight]

[Dave]

[gerrydelasel]

In BtE we’re supposed to believe Blade Runner was the inspiration for Red Dwarf, which is obviously more Doug revisionist nonsense. We all know 2001 A Space Odyssey was the inspiration, but it wasn’t until I watched 2001 last night that I really appreciated how many references are hidden in Red Dwarf. Here’s my pointless list:

The opening music, obviously;
A human(oid) species evolving from an animal;
The disinterested voice of HAL and the disinterested voice of HOL(ly);
A ship is on a mission to Jupiter but everyone on board is killed except for one man;
That one man has some special significance for the origin of the universe/human race;
The full name of the computer is HAL 9000;

The shape of Red Dwarf;

The shape of Starbug;

Suspended animation;

Silver spacesuits and the monolith;

The appearance of the officers’ quarters;

News readers in space;

[Dave]

In BtE we’re supposed to believe Blade Runner was the inspiration for Red Dwarf, which is obviously more Doug revisionist nonsense. We all know 2001 A Space Odyssey was the inspiration, but it wasn’t until I watched 2001 last night that I really appreciated how many references are hidden in Red Dwarf. Here’s my pointless list:

There’s also the very specific homage of Holly lip-reading the crew’s conversation through the window in TPL.

In general though, I think you can look at 2001 as a secondary influence, filtered through later stuff like Dark Star and Alien.

[Nick R]

The full name of the computer is HAL 9000;

I think the use of the “thousand” suffix on a machine or computer is too common to be a specific reference to HAL.

The fact that the computer on Dave Hollins: Space Cadet was called Hab was definitely a HAL parody, though.

[Nick R]

[tombow]

people are saying DDJ is in Ann Droid as a taxi driver

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I don’t think its really pointed out enough that, whilst BtE is a Blade Runner parody in place, and at the time Doug said it was *one of* the inspirations, it’s not to be taken that it is *the* inspiration or that it erases, 2001, Dark Star, Silent Running, Alien etc

[Ben Saunders]

in the hallucinatory universe of Back to Earth, which isn’t actually our “real world”, Blade Runner was the main influence. simple

[Warbodog]

You didn’t even mention that the main (human) character’s called Dave.

Red Dwarf’s a step removed via Dave Hollins, but “everybody’s dead, Dave” is kind of a HAL monologue parody.

Holly’s slow-mo singing in Queeg as his mind is going too.

[Dave]

Red Dwarf’s a step removed via Dave Hollins, but “everybody’s dead, Dave” is kind of a HAL monologue parody.

Yeah definitely, Holly’s monotone speech and addresses to Dave are definitely in reference to 2001.

And yes, the scene at the end of Queeg where Holly sings and slows down as he’s being erased is a direct descendant of “Daisy, Daisy” from 2001.

[Dave]

RIP Kevin Keegan.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

in the hallucinatory universe of Back to Earth, which isn’t actually our “real world”, Blade Runner was the main influence. simple

Yeah that too. I’ve always taken that for granted 

[RunawayTrain]

RIP Kevin Keegan.

Oh :( 

(Turns out here and BlueSky really are where I get my news.)

[Rushy]

Can’t believe they cut this out of the episode. What a great bit

[Moonlight]

Considering this episode famously overran its timeslot by 8-10 minutes I’m not at all surprised there’s really good material on the cutting room floor.

[Warbodog]

Pete Part Three once fan-edited Holoship Xtended with the extra 8 minutes: https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/holoship-xtended/

[Moonlight]

That and Rimmer accidentally walking back into the bridge are the two things I think are a genuinely tragic loss.

[Moonlight]

I’m feeling that 2020s Red Dwarf Fan Malaise where I really want to put on an episode to casually kill 30 minutes but every one I consider gets a “Eh, I’ve seen that recently,” from my brain. What happened to us? We used to be a proper fandom and got a new series maybe two, three times a decade. What of Snacky? WHAT OF SNACKY?

[Technopeasant]

They should have just shoved Snacky in somewhere in the background of The Promised Land.

[Podey]

I have realised in recent years that my recollection of a lot of the Dave era is very low compared to classic Dwarf (which isn’t a surprise, I’ve maybe watched them 3 times each versus dozens for the classics) so I am looking forward to a rewatch where a lot of the jokes will probably feel fresh to me. 

[Stephen Abootman]

Phil Ellis talking about a disastrous Red Dwarf audition (27 mins in): 

[Technopeasant]

I have realised in recent years that my recollection of a lot of the Dave era is very low compared to classic Dwarf (which isn’t a surprise, I’ve maybe watched them 3 times each versus dozens for the classics) so I am looking forward to a rewatch where a lot of the jokes will probably feel fresh to me. 

Kinda experienced that going through XII again.

[Moonlight]

I have realised in recent years that my recollection of a lot of the Dave era is very low compared to classic Dwarf (which isn’t a surprise, I’ve maybe watched them 3 times each versus dozens for the classics) so I am looking forward to a rewatch where a lot of the jokes will probably feel fresh to me. 

I watched the ever-loving shit out of X-XII in the 2010s so I remember them all pretty well. There was actually a period I was watching mostly XI and XII just because they were fresh.

[Nick R]

The post ID of the first post in this topic is #266000. That ends in “6000”.

This topic currently has 6000 posts in it (1 OP + 5999 replies).

(It’ll be up to 6000 replies when I click “Submit” on this one.)

Now that’s a mundane observation for you.

[Author]

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