Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Ben Saunders]

G&T Threads That Remind You Of Other Threads

[Dave]

IDEA FOR A THREAD

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

EPISODES OF RED DWARF THAT SOUND LIKE IDEA FOR AN EPISODE POSTS 

[Nick R]

SMEGA-DRIVE FRAMES THAT COME FROM EPISODES OF RED DWARF

[Podey]

POSTS FROM MUNDANE OBSERVATION ZONE THAT SOUND LIKE THEY’RE FROM OTHER THREADS.

[Moonlight]

BISCUITS THAT SOUND LIKE THEY’RE FROM OTHER CONTINENTS

[Dave]

POSTS FROM MUNDANE OBSERVATION ZONE THAT SOUND LIKE THEY’RE FROM OTHER THREADS.

POSTS FROM THIS THREAD THAT GET THIS THREAD’S NAME WRONG

[Podey]

NOT QUITE SURE WHY WE’RE ALL SHOUTING BUT SHOUTING ANYWAY

[Nick R]

(DRAMATIC “2001”-TYPE MUSIC) # TO GANYMEDE AND TITAN, YES, SIR, I’VE BEEN AROUND… # LISTER, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN HIT OVER THE HEAD WITH A WELDING MALLET? NO? THEN SHUT UP AND PUSH THE TROLLEY. YES, SIR, RIMMER! RIGHT. CORRIDOR 159. (LISTER HUMS THE SAME TUNE) LISTER, SHUT UP! I’M ONLY HUMMING! WELL, DON’T. DON’T HUM AND DON’T MAKE ANY STUPID SOUNDS WITH YOUR CHEEKS. (CLICKS TUNE WITH HIS THROAT) LISTER, ONE MORE SOUND, ANYTHING, AND YOU’RE ON REPORT, MILADDO. WHAT JOB NUMBER’S THIS? (LISTER MIMES HIS ANSWER) RIGHT! THAT’S IT! “LISTER, D, THIRD TECHNICIAN. OFFENCE: OBSTRUCTING A SUPERIOR TECHNICIAN BY HUMMING, CLICKING AND BEING QUIET.” WHEN THE CAPTAIN SEES THIS, YOU’RE DEAD. RIMMER, I’M BORED! BORED?! THIS IS ESSENTIAL ROUTINE MAINTENANCE. IT’S ABSOLUTELY VITAL FOR THE WELL-BEING OF THIS CREW, THIS MISSION AND THIS SHIP. “DISPENSER 172: CHICKEN SOUP NOZZLE CLOGGED.” PASS ME A 14B, LISTER. LISTER, IS THIS A 14B? DOES IT LOOK EVEN REMOTELY LIKE A 14B? THIS IS A 14B, LISTER. THIS IS A 14F. ARE YOU BLIND?

— SHOUTED POSTS THAT SOUND LIKE THEY’RE FROM RED DWARF

[Moonlight]

lower case posts that calm everyone down

[Jenuall]

[Technopeasant]

This thread has become everything I dreamed ‘Random Access Memory’ would be. 

Should I post my mundane Red Dwarf observations there?

[International Debris]

From time to time I see people on dating apps putting remarks about pineapple on pizza in their bio / responses to prompts. Might as well just say “boring person seeks fellow boring person to have boring conversations”. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

From time to time I see people on dating apps putting remarks about pineapple on pizza in their bio / responses to prompts. Might as well just say “boring person seeks fellow boring person to have boring conversations”. 

Maybe they’re all philosophy PHD students and pineapple on pizza is the last great unsolved photometry of the universe 

[Ben Saunders]

Well it’s one step above “my ideal Sunday is a roast & F1” I suppose, at least they’re taking a stance.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Well it’s one step above “my ideal Sunday is a roast & F1” I suppose, at least they’re taking a stance.

At least I know to hard swipe left because roast and F1 gives me flash backs to the most tediously burning Sundays as a child. I think I’ve genuinely got some sort of PTSD from it. 

[International Debris]

“Walk and a roast” great thanks guys.

It’s always guys, too. Make a fucking effort like everyone else does, for the love of God.

[Moonlight]

My dating profile contains a series of cryptic clues leading to buried treasure, as I am taken and had a couple extra VCRs laying around.

[solidbronze]

There’s a bit in The Inquisitor where future Kryten says, ‘For some bizarre reason, my final words are “enig”.’

But from his persepctive, this scene occurs after the one where he and Lister realise that ‘Enig’ refers to the ‘Enigma decoding system,’ so he should know as he dies exactly why he says ‘Enig’ – so it’s not bizarre to him at all.

[Flap Jack]

He’s saying it because he already saw himself say it, therefore he knows that’s what needs to be said, not because he personally judges it to be bizarre in the current moment.

Also it is still pretty weird even if you know what it means.

[Ben Saunders]

He’s already seen himself say “enig” and knows/assumes that it is him saying that specifically that will lead to them finally figuring it out, so rather than just saying “enigma” (and possibly tipping off the Inquisitor), he just says what he’s predestined to say, knowing it will all work out. Maybe. Idk. 

[sleepey]

For some bizarre reason, my final words are “for some bizarre reason, my final words are enig”

[Rushy]

It’s a fun episode with wonderful atmosphere, but the logic is just as nonexistent as in Backwards. 

[Warbodog]

It initially seems to be “for some bizarre reason” because it’s nonsensical, but it turns out that “for some bizarre reason” he’s being needlessly cryptic when he could just say the word. So it kind of works, but mainly something to enjoy on the way and not think about later.

[Podey]

Might it also be that he needed to say something that would plant enough of a seed for his past self to figure it out whilst also obscuring the plan from The Inquisitor, so he couldn’t outright tell them how to beat him? 

[Ben Saunders]

[Dave]

I mean, by Tikka’s logic the Inquisitor using his own gauntlet to stop himself from ever existing and inventing the gauntlet should mean that it never exists to threaten him in the first place, so he should pop back into existence with a new gauntlet that’s suddenly big enough to have wind tunnels inside.

[Podey]

I was just browsing through some reviews of IWCD on The StoryGraph and a surprising number of them are from people who have never seen the show. 

A lot of those reviews are positive but many criticise it for being so male-centric, some calling it sexist given how the few female characters are used and there was one comment that none of the characters are likeable which I initially found odd but can perhaps understand if you only have this book for reference. 

But still, interesting to see how people experience it with no prior knowledge…! 

[Ben Saunders]

I mean there’s only really one man, if Cat was a woman they’d be fucking each other crazy style all the time and it would be a different show. Kryten being a woman would be problematic in having the only female character be in a subservient role. Rimmer being a woman simply wouldn’t be the same dynamic. They could have made Holly a woman in the books, though. Did they?

[tombow]

Cat was a woman in one of the American versions..? And wasn’t interested in US Lister IIRC

[Ben Saunders]

Well if they were a woman from the get-go they’d probably be written differently, I was thinking of our current actual Cat’s tendency to want to fuck everything in sight all the time. Maybe make her a lesbian or something. Then she could still have similar reactions to the sirens in Kryten etc. But it wouldn’t really be as funny that a woman was so concerned with grooming, fashion and looking good etc since that’s just a gendered expectation we already have in our society.

[Dave]

I mean there’s only really one man, if Cat was a woman they’d be fucking each other crazy style all the time and it would be a different show. Kryten being a woman would be problematic in having the only female character be in a subservient role. Rimmer being a woman simply wouldn’t be the same dynamic. They could have made Holly a woman in the books, though. Did they?

We posted about this topic simultaneously in two different threads so I’ll copy my reply in here.

• I find the regular criticism of the treatment of (and lack of) women characters interesting – and it’s obviously something that gets levelled at the TV show regularly too.

  For me, given that it’s a key part of the core premise of the show, it isn’t problematic that there are no female characters around. Having a regular female character would definitely change the dynamic (as we saw later with Kochanski becoming a regular) and would pull the show away from its focus on a lone man at the end of the universe with only other male characters for company.

  The show’s tendency to see female characters through the eyes of flawed male characters is a feature, not a bug – and usually this is tempered by an either implicit or explicit commentary on how men view women.

  Introducing Hattie as Holly was a nice way to get a female voice in the show without forcing a female humanoid character into the mix, but in terms of regulars I think that’s probably about as far as it can go without turning the show into something quite different. 

I find the regular criticism of the treatment of (and lack of) women characters interesting – and it’s obviously something that gets levelled at the TV show regularly too.

For me, given that it’s a key part of the core premise of the show, it isn’t problematic that there are no female characters around. Having a regular female character would definitely change the dynamic (as we saw later with Kochanski becoming a regular) and would pull the show away from its focus on a lone man at the end of the universe with only other male characters for company.

The show’s tendency to see female characters through the eyes of flawed male characters is a feature, not a bug – and usually this is tempered by an either implicit or explicit commentary on how men view women.

Introducing Hattie as Holly was a nice way to get a female voice in the show without forcing a female humanoid character into the mix, but in terms of regulars I think that’s probably about as far as it can go without turning the show into something quite different. 

[Podey]

I think the thought is more female characters with their own roles (like Kochanski in Titan) rather than changing any of the existing ones to women. 

[Dave]

I think the thought is more female characters with their own roles (like Kochanski in Titan) rather than changing any of the existing ones to women. 

Even then though it changes the dynamic if they’re in the mix with the male characters. 

[Ben Saunders]

More of the secondary characters could have been women maybe, but if they’re pre-accident and die, or a villain and die, etc, then you end up with complaints of fridging. Just make ’em all women. Call it Pink Dwarf. (Only joking). 

[Podey]

It never occurred to me in these terms before today but Red Dwarf has a trans character in Holly.

This stemmed from thinking about Holly’s reaction to Ace… did he change which gender he was attracted to when he changed his image? Or was he always bisexual? Or is he still attracted to women but this is Ace’s sexual magnetism overriding everything?

[Moonlight]

The escape hole was fourteen, fifteen inches wide. He tossed the slat into the gap and waited for it to hit the deck below.

One little second.

Two little seconds.

Three little seconds.

Fou…

The wood hit the metal below.

Thirty or forty feet.

Without cushioning, a bone-breaking certainty.

Four seconds of falling would actually be 257 feet, which means Better Than Life Starbug is full of wind tunnels.

[Frank Lewis]

I once innocently asked on Reddit why American Youtubers all say “troll” to rhyme with “role” (I always think of it just rhyming with doll/toll), and some people got really angry and bit my head off, saying that I was cunningly “trolling them about the word troll” because everyone knows it’s pronounced “trole” and I was apparently stupidly trying to annoy them. I genuinely though “trole” was some funny Cliche-like mis-pronunciation.

I genuinely have no idea what you’re saying, troll and role and roll and doll and toll are all the same sound. What accent do you speak in?

That Redditor was a Spazzing Smeghead. Why all the prejudice and Cliches with Netspeak Garbage? What if some of us don’t buy into that FILTH?!? FOrtunately, most of us Dwarfers and Whovians prioritize our Netuse on better, geerkier things.

[Frank Lewis]

#RedDwarf #Smegle

🟨🟨🟩

Got it in 3.

[Dave]

What the fuck is this? Is this what the Polymorph is meant to be saying?

[sleepey]

It’s to explain the big monstery groaning sound at the start

[Dave]

It’s to explain the big monstery groaning sound at the start

I just never thought of the Polymorph as having dialogue, I just thought it was silly monster noises.

Madness.

[Flap Jack]

I just never thought of the Polymorph as having dialogue, I just thought it was silly monster noises.

?????

[Podey]

I always heard that “pardon me”…! Genuinely one of my favourite lines from that ep, the humour of a grotesque monster being so polite. 

I’m not exaggerating when I say I have thought of Polymorph every single time I have burped since. 

[International Debris]

Oh it’s definitely muttering something, although I’ve never been able to work out what it is.

[tombow]

I only found out last night that Smoke on the Water is apparently “Swiss time was running out” and not “since time”

[clem]

Do we know who provided Kevin Polymorph’s voice? I wonder if the “pardon me” line was improvised. It’s not in Primordial Soup.

[Dave]

 ?????

The Polymorph in its standard Polymorph form, not when it’s impersonating someone else, obviously. 

Like… could you have a chat with the Polymorph?

[clem]

Do we know who provided Kevin Polymorph’s voice?

Ah, T̶O̶S̶ TUA says it was Mike Agnew, also the voice of the vending machine in Bodyswap. 

[Flap Jack]

The Polymorph in its standard Polymorph form, not when it’s impersonating someone else, obviously.

Like… could you have a chat with the Polymorph?

Well, if it can morph itself some human language capable vocal cords (and has the intelligence to use them) when it’s impersonating someone, there’s no reason it can’t do that whenever it wants, whatever it currently looks like.

Plus, do we even know for sure what its “standard” form is?

[Author]

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