Mundane observation dome

[Unrumble]

Have I ever mentioned that Series VIII is kind of bad.

[Rudolph]

There’s a nugget of a good idea in them going to prison, with Lister and Rimmer pulling various scams to get one over Ackerman. Same with them on the run from Red Dwarf in Blue Midget, trying to clear their names.

[Stabbim]

I remember assuming that the whole prison thing would be wrapped up by the end of Back In The Red, and they’d go back to the III-V status quo (but with Norm’s Holly and an additional Kochanski). It never occurred to me the purpose of BITR was to set up a new status quo, because even as an over-excited twelve year old, that seemed like a fucking stupid idea.
Just imagine if G&T was a thing back then. Tens of thousands of furious comments.

I remember being very excited, on paper, for Series 8 being a “the crew lives again” situation, because the early episodes always left me with a certain nostalgia for the dead crew.  The flashback scenes did a good job of generating pathos for Lister’s lonely situation, and were enough for me to miss them along with him.  So I wanted to see the crew come back, even with the assumption that their return meant the finale of Red Dwarf (because with the crew back Lister has human companionship again and his quest is mostly over; he’s returned as closely as possible to the past life he knew, the happiest ending he can hope for really. So where does the show go from there but off into the sunset?)

But, eh, you know, be careful what you wish for because you might get it, etc.

First of all, like you point out, it’s a massive disruption of the old status quo and the winning formula of Series 3-5.

Second of all, most of the nostalgia value of the dead crew is stored in a handful of characters who we actually got to know. The main one is Kochanski, who was already back (more or less). After that there’s Petersen, whose actor was unavailable so the character couldn’t turn up, Selby & Chen who still only turned up once, and maybe McGruder who still never turned up at all [got namechecked once, but during Rimmer’s Sex Virus Misadventures, so the less said about it the better].  Outside of that, the only crew member that’s really “coming back” is Captain Hollister.  The rest of the crew are new characters, and for the most part not fun ones without any nostalgic equity to armor them.

Well, I suppose it for a while there it was the end of Red Dwarf, anyway.

[Stabbim]

There’s a nugget of a good idea in them going to prison, with Lister and Rimmer pulling various scams to get one over Ackerman. Same with them on the run from Red Dwarf in Blue Midget, trying to clear their names.

Like, maybe if they know from the beginning that Nanobot Red Dwarf is on borrowed time [pet idea: since they recreate Red Dwarf as it was before the accident, they also recreate the fault in the drive plate, so it’s destined to blow again] and they are in a series long race to clear their names so they can successfully warn — and save — the crew this time around.  And Ackerman keeps being a dick that thwarts their attempts to get the evidence out, maybe because he’s always been envious of Lister being with Kochanski.  Or Rimmer spilled red hot gazpacho soup on him back in the day.  Or he’s just an asshole.  Whatever.

[International Debris]

Yeah, there are loads of potentials for interesting tension between the characters and the rest of the crew. Lister gets his wish and goes back to a normal life, only to find all the restrictions on his time, food, etc. are difficult after five years of having the run of the ship. The characters are called up to help the rest of the crew with space phenomena because they are more experienced with GELFs, Simulants, etc., but aren’t actually given any more money / respect despite saving everyone’s lives. Rimmer is incredibly jealous of Lister’s new position of importance and tries to get involved. Lister is much fond of Rimmer after their years alone, while the original Rimmer is still as much of a bastard and this leads to a strange dynamic and maybe the softening of Rimmer’s character. There’s so much interesting character potential, but instead Doug turned it into Carry On Space Marines instead. 

If he’d really wanted to do a prison show, why not have them end up in a prison colony with droids, Simulants and GELFs, like something from Last Human? They could find our Rimmer as Ace there and have a vague through-line of trying to escape. This would get rid of the awkward ‘the crew are carrying on like normal despite their situation’, ‘there’s now a massive prison on the ship’, ‘how do we get rid of them all at the end of the series?’, ‘Rimmer is nothing like The End Rimmer’ issues.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

If I ever make a grindhouse version of my Canaries edit, it is now going to be called Carry On Space Marines. Thanks for that one ID.

[GlenTokyo]

Outside of that, the only crew member that’s really “coming back” is Captain Hollister.  

And they turned him into a joke character. 

Up there with the greatest crimes of VIII for me.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I’d always taken Rimmer’s statement that, had Lister not gone into stasis he’d have had help to fix the drive plate and the leak wouldn’t have happened.

It seems reasonable to assume two people working on it are better than just Rimmer, and Lister isn’t a complete idiot.  If nothing else I’d expect Lister to challenge whether they should be doing it in the first place.

But, Ouroborus shows a universe where Lister isn’t sent to stasis and the leak does still happen.

[Dave]

I’d always taken Rimmer’s statement that, had Lister not gone into stasis he’d have had help to fix the drive plate and the leak wouldn’t have happened.

I think that’s just typical Rimmer seeking to blame someone else. There’s nothing to suggest Lister (or both together) would have been any more competent at fixing the drive plate.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Oh I completely appreciate that. But at some point I must have thought Rimmer was being realistic and it stuck. 

[RunawayTrain]

I’d always taken Rimmer’s statement that, had Lister not gone into stasis he’d have had help to fix the drive plate and the leak wouldn’t have happened.

I think that’s just typical Rimmer seeking to blame someone else. There’s nothing to suggest Lister (or both together) would have been any more competent at fixing the drive plate.

In The End, Lister hands Rimmer the tool he needed rather than the tool he asked for, which I interpreted as showing he was at least a little more competent than Rimmer, and thus lent some weight to Rimmer’s claim.

[Although Ouroboros evidently shows Lister not going into stasis didn’t help, in that universe.  I’d not realised that before.]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Yeah I definitely think Lister is more capable than he seems. Even by early series 1 standards when he is written as a bit of an idiot. He still had those brains he never used. 

Lister showing up Rimmer with the correct tool is a great example of him knowing and not caring. As opposed to being incompetent, which Rimmer is. 

Maybe Kochanski ordering Rimmer to have sex led him to not be available to fix the drive plate, leaving it to Lister, who on his own somehow fucked it up. 

[International Debris]

Maybe Lister was hungover and didn’t turn up to work on the day Rimmer fixed the drive plate. 

Maybe Kochanski going into stasis stopped him moping about and he bucked his ideas up and got a transfer to another shift. 

Maybe it’s part of the novel retcon that happened in IV and it wasn’t him who caused the accident anyway. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Oooooh I like the idea it wasn’t Rimmer’s fault that in that reality either 

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Of course, it could be that the double agent posing as Rimmer unknowingly deliberately sabotaged the drive plate in order to guide Lister towards his ultimate destiny as the creator of the second universe.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

in The Beginning, Cat shoes some uncharacteristic talent at spotting that Rimmer is all chewed up over his father’s disapproval of him and says he needs to rid himself of that so he can think clearly.

In The Promised Land we learn Cat’s entire personality is built up on the fact he wasn’t deemed cool and was left behind.  His families reaction to him has been eating him up inside his whole life too, like Rimmer’s.

You could also read Cat’s disdain from Rimmer as his own abandonment lashing out.  He was treated poorly by his family so he acts a bit of a bully

[RunawayTrain]

Cat’s sling matches his waistcoat (Quarantine).

Yep, mundane.

[GlenTokyo]

I don’t think this is a fire axe. It doesn’t have a pick.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Rasputin probably took it after he gave up slapping. It hurts his royal fingers, don’t you know.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

The nanobots resurrected Hollister, gave him piles and then only recreated one tube of pile cream!

what cruel jokes were they playing!

[Rudolph]

It’s lucky that not only did the nanobots have access to Red Dwarf’s original design plans, but also aged up the entire crew by ten years.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It’s lucky that not only did the nanobots have access to Red Dwarf’s original design plans, but also aged up the entire crew by ten years.

Despite in universe it only being six.

[Jenuall]

Let’s not try to pretend we can put a reliable timeframe to the show now!

[RunawayTrain]

 aged up the entire crew by ten years.

Despite in universe it only being six.

Relativity, man.  *nods sagely*

[Dave]

When you hear the opening theme, which series’ opening montage visuals play in your head?

IV for me every time.

[Stabbim]

I hear the original theme first, so no montage for me, just a forlorn shot of Lister painting the side of the ship

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I hear the original theme first, so no montage for me, just a forlorn shot of Lister painting the side of the ship

But is it slightly washed-out or has it been oversaturated to compensate?

[Podey]

Responding to a little further up the page, the best I can say about Series 8 is it made for a REALLY good trailer. 

[Warbodog]

When you hear the opening theme, which series’ opening montage visuals play in your head?

Mine seems to be something like (not checked for timing):

I was confused about what that final shot was from when I couldn’t find it on the Smegadrive for the Series VI intro, then remembered it was Remastered (still can’t remember what episode and scene it is right now). VII Xtended and Remastered vol 1 were the first videos I had, and Quarantine was the first ‘proper’ byte I had, so they really ground it in, I guess.

[Unrumble]

I probably see a mash-up of III & IV. Think the red borders on V & VI don’t help, though that penultimate shot of them virtually ‘moseying on into town’ is pretty iconic.

[Rudolph]

I think IV might be my favourite, as V leans a bit too much on action-adventure clips. I also prefer the chunky font and purple halo on the III/IV/XI/XII logo. 

[Warbodog]

If there is no more Red Dwarf, I wonder whether the (current?) chunky sans serif will remain the main logo for products or if they’ll go back to the (more established) slim serif, or a mix.

I don’t think we need to be as particular as Doctor Who projects about using the right logo for each series, unless you really want that weird perspective pixel font thing from the scripts for the early series.

[Rudolph]

I suppose we’d have to wait for any new Red Dwarf merchandise. I’m sure any new DVD releases will stick to the reversible cover format, with the series specific logo on one side and the Sans Serif silver logo on the other.

Maybe they could play a wild card and use that alternate one from III, the forced perspective/elongated logo that’s on Lister’s milkshake bottle.

[Ben Saunders]

I’m currently looking for the “one up, one down and one to polish” line on the Smega-Drive… is it only from Blue? I swear Rimmer said it in Series 2 or something, but Google isn’t finding anything.

[Rudolph]

It’s from Blue, when Lister is talking to Kochanski. Although he sneers at Lister polishing his space bike and his portable walrus polishing kit in II.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I wonder – what would be an absolutely definitive Red Dwarf title sequence, incorporating clips from across the entire series?

[Dave]

I wonder – what would be an absolutely definitive Red Dwarf title sequence, incorporating clips from across the entire series?

It’s a tough one as there are so many highlights to choose from and you’d have to combine the various eras and looks of the show.

I guess everyone will have their favourite episodes, but maybe something like this:

[RunawayTrain]

^ Obvious troll is obvious ;p

[Flap Jack]

In the imaginary ‘death chase’ scene in Back to Earth, The Creator fires his gun 10 times, but he is only seen loading 4 bullets which have the characters’ names on them. The order in which the characters get shot is also different to the order he loads their respective bullets, with Rimmer getting shot last, instead of Kryten. This means it is unlikely that he actually shot them with their designated bullets.

[Warbodog]

Changing details are a giveaway that you’re dreaming. That’s even another layer of dream or something.

(By extrapolation, much of Red Dwarf is a dream).

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Whoa, does this mean that meme I did ages ago where the plot twist of Lister being drugged and hooked up to VR instead of going to stasis was real?!

[Ben Saunders]

It’s from Blue, when Lister is talking to Kochanski. Although he sneers at Lister polishing his space bike and his portable walrus polishing kit in II.

Weird, I feel like I distinctly remember this being a much earlier line. Maybe I didn’t think it was in VII because it’s actually funny. (I like Series VII.) I’m choosing to blame my mistake on my having shifted into this reality from some parallel dimension, rather than the simpler explanation of my young brain mixing up its memories.

[Ben Saunders]

I thought Rimmer said it so I was going to do some shit joke referencing Chris Barrie being a conspiracy nut, “one up, one down and one too many Polish”, but maybe it’s best I didn’t get the chance.

[Dave]

Weird, I feel like I distinctly remember this being a much earlier line.

I’ve often misremembered it this way too, but I think it’s because of the presence of the voice-activated toilet in the original grey bunkroom.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I thought Rimmer said it so I was going to do some shit joke referencing Chris Barrie being a conspiracy nut, “one up, one down and one too many Polish”, but maybe it’s best I didn’t get the chance.

Theoretically could still work if you phrased it right, but I’d advise against it in the interest of good taste.

[Podey]

This might be controversial, but I quite like the ReMastered mashup of the two themes (not the visual aspect, though, that’s awful).

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

This might be controversial, but I quite like the ReMastered mashup of the two themes (not the visual aspect, though, that’s awful).

That sort of did this with TPL almost, they teased the original theme and then dropped into the guitar driven one.

I still maintain they should have used the original opening.  It would have suited the story harking back to series 1 and t was a single part feature length special so a montage of up-coming bits doesn’t really suit.

The only reason I can think they did do the now normal opening is because on streaming it is split in two, with two sets of opening and closing credits.  So they “needed” the montage for that and decided to use it in the show itself.

[SmegHammer]

Me² shouldn’t be called “me squared”. Rimmer is one man. 1 squared is still 1.

It is more accurate to call it “Me Two”, to indicate that there is a Rimmer 1 and a Rimmer 2 in this episode

[Dave]

But the second Rimmer ultimately forces the reveal of Rimmer-prime’s Gazpacho soup story, thereby making him look square.

[GlenTokyo]

1 x 1 is 1, and the resolution of Me² is ending up with one Rimmer, so that makes sense. 

Rimmer² (Rimmer x Rimmer) = Rimmer

[Author]

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