Mundane observation dome

[Flap Jack]

What are the chances that Emmett Brown calling his sons “Jules” and “Verne” was inspired by Jim and Bexley?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Interestingly was watching BttF3 last night 

But I think it’s doubtful that’s the inspiration 

[Flap Jack]

I just thought it was a neat coincidence given Future Echoes was 1988 and BttF3 was 1990… but on balance it probably is unlikely that Bob Gale was a ground level Red Dwarf fan.

[Warbodog]

[Rudolph]

[Warbodog]

[Warbodog]

This seems to be the accepted transcription, but I think it’s meant to be ‘Plutonian.’

Also:

More Plutonian moons were discovered in the 21st century, sadly making this episode unwatchably dated now.

[Warbodog]

I guess not then. I’ll close my own discussions.

[Dave]

I always heard it as “Plutonian” too.

[Flap Jack]

I guess it’s technically possible both the Smegazine guys and the DVD subtitlers misheard it and nobody corrected them.

If it is “Plutonium miner”, is it meant to be someone who mines plutonium, or someone who uses plutonium to mine?

[Ian Symes]

The original lyrics are:

In a cavern, in a canyon

Excavating for a mine

Dwelt a miner, forty-niner

And his daughter, Clementine

“Forty-niner” refers to someone who was part of the influx of immigrants to California in 1849 as part of the gold rush. So the equivalent lyric kind of refers to both the location of the miner and, implicitly, what they’re mining. So fuck knows.

[Warbodog]

If it’s a Plutonian miner, is he a native of Pluto (there are references to it being colonised) or did he used to work for the Pluto Mining Corporation, before either way relocating to settle down in the asteroid belt?

Along with his Casablanca preference, it’s another case of early-series Lister enjoying the clunky space-age remakes of the classics before he goes more traditional later.

[Dave]

If it’s a Plutonian miner, is he a native of Pluto (there are references to it being colonised) or did he used to work for the Pluto Mining Corporation, before either way relocating to settle down in the asteroid belt?

Maybe he’s a miner made of plutonium. 

[Warbodog]

Maybe he’s a miner made of plutonium. 

Are you telling me that this sucker is nuclear?

[Formica]

the Pluto Mining Corporation

Gonna ask the class here: would the JMC have been running operations throughout the solar system, including on Pluto? Seems they must’ve with an interplanetary fleet and all.

[Jenuall]

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

It has previously been noted that the bridge in Bowie’s ‘Loving the Alien’ sounds a bit like the opening sting in the main theme of Red Dwarf; however, I’d like to point out that Roy Wood also did it in Wizzard’s 1974 song ‘This Is the Story of My Love (Baby)’ from the album Introducing Eddy and the Falcons. (though curiously some re-recordings don’t feature it)

[Dave]

I’m reading Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep? at the moment, and this passage made me wonder if there was some small seed of inspiration planted for Rob and Doug that later became the Garbage World section of the Better Than Life novel.

Ordinarily I would put it down to coincidence, but given that this is the book that was adapted to film as Blade Runner, I’m slightly more inclined to believe there could be a link.

[Warbodog]

I read the book first, it was handy having the implied background of the film all very clearly explained so I didn’t have to rely on my own interpretative skills there. (I’d guess some of it was in the original voice-over narration version too).

[Dave]

I’m really enjoying the book. It’s more different to the film than I expected.

I’ve enjoyed a lot of Dick in the past (shut up) but somehow never got around to reading this one.

[Rudolph]

[Warbodog]

Those messages above the original bunks (“it’s too naughty!” etc) always reminded me of the mood organ, as if Lister was selecting the ambience he wants, but I suppose they’re just some kind of automatic, pointless status readout.

[Unrumble]

I’ve enjoyed a lot of Dick in the past (shut up) but somehow never got around to reading this one.

[pi r squared]

In Psirens, there is a whole minute and six seconds between Cat first smelling the huge meteor heading towards them, and it being destroyed by the explosive rubbish… surely more than enough time to just go over or under the damn thing?! Why would you waste your apparently single explosive missile on that?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

In sci-fi you don’t you don’t acknowledge the vertical axis. 

[Moonlight]

[Warbodog]

A meaningless observation, but so niche that it should at least be original. Star Trek has a recurring fictional baseball team, the London Kings (first mentioned in The Big Goodbye, aired January 1988). It’s sort of like the London Jets in mysteriously involving London in American-based sports in the future (it could be the Canadian London, but ‘Kings’ suggests royalty).

[Warbodog]

[cwickham]

Is the vending machine’s mechanism designed to dump whatever it serves on the floor or what?

[Moonlight]

The bucket is top heavy, give it a break. Like you wouldn’t tip over if the ground shifted under your feet.

[International Debris]

How DO the vending machines work? The chicken soup nozzle of The End suggests they’re just like the kinds of machines we have now (and the later, less built in models certainly seem like that), but the bucket isn’t something they would normally be stocked with, suggesting they’re more like Star Trek replicators. 

[Flap Jack]

I’m imagining a vast landscape of assorted supplies, and then a claw machine grabber comes down and picks things up to put into the back of the vending machine. Trout a la Crème is right next to Buckets.

[Dave]

I’m imagining a vast landscape of assorted supplies, and then a claw machine grabber comes down and picks things up to put into the back of the vending machine

Like a futuristic Argos.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Man, I miss having an Argos catalogue.

[Rudolph]

Man, I miss having an Argos catalogue.

So happy they make a comeback.

[Dave]

Does anyone notice the significant step up in intelligence by Cat from Series 3 onwards?

In I & II, he doesnt know what dog is, its all about shiny things, string etc. By III he is wise cracking about popular jewish operations and so on.

I appreciate the writers needed to make the character more interactive and inclusive, and couldnt really continue with a character that could offer nothing… but still, its quite noticable really.

The reverse seems to have happened with Kryten from VII onwards. Dumbing him down for the cheap visual laugh. His reactions to certain things, the jealousy for instance…

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Does anyone notice the significant step up in intelligence by Cat from Series 3 onwards?
In I & II, he doesnt know what dog is, its all about shiny things, string etc. By III he is wise cracking about popular jewish operations and so on.
I appreciate the writers needed to make the character more interactive and inclusive, and couldnt really continue with a character that could offer nothing… but still, its quite noticable really.
The reverse seems to have happened with Kryten from VII onwards. Dumbing him down for the cheap visual laugh. His reactions to certain things, the jealousy for instance…

Al characters are inconsistently written. Lister is just as stupid early on. Rimmer at times does and doesn’t know what relativity is. 

But if we’re going to focus on Cat.

Hanging around Lister will have brought out some of the smarts in him.

Cat goes through periods of being a dumb cat and a smart member of the crew. It seems entirely in character for him to be dumb, lazy and selfish when there’s no threat, but when there’s actual peril he kind snaps out of it and shows his smarts 

The Beginning g has a very clear exemplar of that, with his intuition towards Rimmer’s hang ups about his father.

We seem him work with the team when his life depends on it, especially throughout series VI and VII etc. and then regress to being a cat in later series again.

[Dave]

Does anyone notice the significant step up in intelligence by Cat from Series 3 onwards?
In I & II, he doesnt know what dog is, its all about shiny things, string etc. By III he is wise cracking about popular jewish operations and so on.
I appreciate the writers needed to make the character more interactive and inclusive, and couldnt really continue with a character that could offer nothing… but still, its quite noticable really.
The reverse seems to have happened with Kryten from VII onwards. Dumbing him down for the cheap visual laugh. His reactions to certain things, the jealousy for instance…

Al characters are inconsistently written. Lister is just as stupid early on. Rimmer at times does and doesn’t know what relativity is. 
But if we’re going to focus on Cat.
Hanging around Lister will have brought out some of the smarts in him.
Cat goes through periods of being a dumb cat and a smart member of the crew. It seems entirely in character for him to be dumb, lazy and selfish when there’s no threat, but when there’s actual peril he kind snaps out of it and shows his smarts 
The Beginning g has a very clear exemplar of that, with his intuition towards Rimmer’s hang ups about his father.
We seem him work with the team when his life depends on it, especially throughout series VI and VII etc. and then regress to being a cat in later series again.

I agree for the most part. The cat naturally had to be integrated better from series III onwards. He displayed elements of being emotionally human in many episodes, but is naturally still a lazy arsed cat. There’s plenty of gags to be had with such a diverse character.

I take greater umbridge at Kryten’s character assassination actually. From III to VI he was clearly a TNG “Data” type with quite a solid personality and could be funny without making a fool of himself. From VII onwards he gets more whingy, emotionally unstable, and generally played for cheaper more visually comedic laughs. That finger needs pointing at Doug, once he took over sole writing duties, who changed the very essence of the character. Lazy writing!

 Im still a Kryten fan…dont get me wrong, but he was simply written better in the classic era. The Cat’s character has grown whereas Krytens has declined into some mushy daft robot, when he shouldn’t be.

[Dave]

But if we’re going to focus on Cat.

Hanging around Lister will have brought out some of the smarts in him.

Also, my take on opening Series III with them watching The Flintstones is that Cat has been getting a lot more exposure to human culture in general and is spending more time in a more human mode, probably learning a lot through TV.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Does anyone notice the significant step up in intelligence by Cat from Series 3 onwards?
In I & II, he doesnt know what dog is, its all about shiny things, string etc. By III he is wise cracking about popular jewish operations and so on.
I appreciate the writers needed to make the character more interactive and inclusive, and couldnt really continue with a character that could offer nothing… but still, its quite noticable really.
The reverse seems to have happened with Kryten from VII onwards. Dumbing him down for the cheap visual laugh. His reactions to certain things, the jealousy for instance…
Al characters are inconsistently written. Lister is just as stupid early on. Rimmer at times does and doesn’t know what relativity is. 
But if we’re going to focus on Cat.
Hanging around Lister will have brought out some of the smarts in him.
Cat goes through periods of being a dumb cat and a smart member of the crew. It seems entirely in character for him to be dumb, lazy and selfish when there’s no threat, but when there’s actual peril he kind snaps out of it and shows his smarts 
The Beginning g has a very clear exemplar of that, with his intuition towards Rimmer’s hang ups about his father.
We seem him work with the team when his life depends on it, especially throughout series VI and VII etc. and then regress to being a cat in later series again.

I agree for the most part. The cat naturally had to be integrated better from series III onwards. He displayed elements of being emotionally human in many episodes, but is naturally still a lazy arsed cat. There’s plenty of gags to be had with such a diverse character.
I take greater umbridge at Kryten’s character assassination actually. From III to VI he was clearly a TNG “Data” type with quite a solid personality and could be funny without making a fool of himself. From VII onwards he gets more whingy, emotionally unstable, and generally played for cheaper more visually comedic laughs. That finger needs pointing at Doug, once he took over sole writing duties, who changed the very essence of the character. Lazy writing!
 Im still a Kryten fan…dont get me wrong, but he was simply written better in the classic era. The Cat’s character has grown whereas Krytens has declined into some mushy daft robot, when he shouldn’t be.

There’s in universe explaination for Kryten too. Lister encourages to break his programming so much he develops these other negative emotions such as jealousy. Kryten actually becomes attached and co-dependant upon Lister. He basically says as much in d Ouroborus when he is worried Lister will leave him and he’ll be on his own like he was the Nova 5. He’s developed the ability to contemplate how bad that existence was and would be again and he doesn’t like it.

Now granted Doug didn’t have to write him that way and it would have been better if he hadn’t but at least the characters progression backs it up

[clem]

Yeah I see the Cat being more worldly in Series III than before as natural character development. What stuck out to me on the pre-Pearl Poll rewatch was how cocky and selfish he is in III, but not selfish in a kooky cat-like way like in the first two series, and therefore not as funny or likeable. Then in IV they tone down that side of his character and make him more vain instead, which is an improvement.

[Rudolph]

Kryten certainly hits a plateau around VII. In III, he wobbles back and forth between being Rimmer’s lackey, but for IV to VI he’s an equal and friend to Cat and Lister. VII reinvents him bizarrely as Lister’s mum.

[International Debris]

While IX’s strongest point is the return to a familiar Dwarf structure after the weirdness of VIII, it also features a mechanoid with an encyclopaedic knowledge of human history who thinks that a postbox is a robot.

Kryten works best when he’s quietly the one in control, as in IV-VI, and the undermining of him for laughs in Doug’s era is a bit… crap. He has many excellent moments in the Doug era, but still still lacks the gentle authority at times. 

[Warbodog]

for IV to VI he’s an equal and friend to Cat and Lister. VII reinvents him bizarrely as Lister’s mum.

He reverts to debased butler/mother by VI already. It makes sense in their more desperate situation, even if it doesn’t bring out the best in him or Lister.

Though the curry/pizza discussion in Holoship means he was probably doing all the cooking in V too, there’s just less time for domestic scenes in that era.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Is the dumbing down of Kryten the result of losing Holly do you think. Not having that dumb computer character, Doug found himself imprinting a bit of what was missing onto Kryten. 

[Dave]

Is the dumbing down of Kryten the result of losing Holly do you think. Not having that dumb computer character, Doug found himself imprinting a bit of what was missing onto Kryten. 

They should have made Holly a main character again really in my opinion. Certainly by the Dave era. As you say, there would have been a better scope to write Kryten as he was in the classic era.

The classic Era was quite high tempo from series III onwards, with most episodes having quite a bit of sci-fiy wibbly wobbly plots to them. Kryten was in his element as a pseudo Leader of the group. Its the character driven episodes, with less plot, that we see him regress to butler/mother mode. Unfortunately from VII onwards they maintained that dumb downed personality even during the action laced episodes which then became more pronounced and noticable to the audience.

[Formica]

They should have made Holly a main character again really in my opinion. Certainly by the Dave era.

Wasn’t really for lack of trying.

[si]

The Cat becomes an idiot in series VII & VIII. 
He goes from being cool and not caring about other stuff, to just being stupid and not knowing about other stuff.

…..

As you were.

[Loathsome American]

One thing that’s really well constructed about Frasier is that the show makes a lot of jokes based on social/cultural tensions and has arranged the central three characters on a spectrum, with Martin being an “average Joe” with kitschy tastes on one end, and Niles being fussy and elitist on the other. Frasier is positioned between them (not exactly in the center) so that in a scene between he and Martin, he can be the snob, whereas in a scene between he and Niles, he can be the relatively down-to-earth one. 

Red Dwarf makes a lot of jokes based on the characters’ stupidity, but they didn’t arrange the characters on a consistent spectrum like this, so “who’s the dumb one?” varies a lot from scene to scene depending on which character needs the laugh. 

[Unrumble]

Red Dwarf makes a lot of jokes based on the characters’ stupidity, but they didn’t arrange the characters on a consistent spectrum like this, so “who’s the dumb one?” varies a lot from scene to scene depending on which character needs the laugh. 

I think this is the case in quite a lot of comedy, where ‘the laugh is king’. Even moreso in animated comedy, where maintaining realism is usually less of a thing.

For example, the main characters in South Park veering from one minute being experts on whatever topic they’re required to be a mouthpiece for that week, and more savvy and worldly than the adults, to the next being as clueless and innocent as you’d expect 8 year-old kids to be.

[Author]

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