Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Rushy]

[Unrumble]

[Dave]

[Rushy]

Does the new Red Dwarf Blu-Ray finally fix the bluescreen in Starbug’s cockpit? 

[Dave]

Does the new Red Dwarf Blu-Ray finally fix the bluescreen in Starbug’s cockpit? 

Not really.

And nor should it, that kind of remastering is a slippery slope that leads to stuff like Remastered. 

[Rushy]

I don’t know, I think Star Trek TOS style remastering would be very nice. That was tastefully done. 

[Flap Jack]

It could be nice, but only if it’s presented as an optional extra. A modern release of an old TV series should only aim to present it as it was, only changing what’s necessary to move it to the new format, no correcting pre-existing errors or adding stuff.

I don’t know which way they handled it with Star Trek, but if they George Lucas’d it then I don’t think it matters how well done the changes were.

Although there is a definite grey area when it comes to TV shows that were shot on film and are heavy with analogue VFX, because there is no final negative you can scan in HD/4K, you can only re-scan the originally shot live action footage and re-edit from scratch. So for the effects shots you need to choose between upscaling the SD shots and having them be lower quality than the rest of the programme, or digitally recompositing the effects and having them not look quite as they did before.

[Dave]

I don’t know which way they handled it with Star Trek, but if they George Lucas’d it then I don’t think it matters how well done the changes were.

I’m not a huge Star Trek fan but from what I saw there were new effects shots created, but they attempted to be very close in design and style to what was seen in the original series, so less jarring than the stuff in the Star Wars SEs.

[Flap Jack]

OK, good to know!

So yeah, they Lucas’d it. Recompositing effect shots is on the line, but creating brand new CGI effects is crossing it. Even if the execution is much more restrained and the goal is purely recreation, the principle is the same. (Unless they went the “optional extra” route of course.)

[Warbodog]

The TNG remasters are more the subtle changes you’re talking about and are mostly fine for me, though I don’t think they needed to fix errors like phasers coming out of the wrong bit of the ship that used to be fun quirks of episodes. And I miss the early CGI creatures like the space ravioli, but get why they changed it.

[sleepey]

OK, good to know!
So yeah, they Lucas’d it. Recompositing effect shots is on the line, but creating brand new CGI effects is crossing it. Even if the execution is much more restrained and the goal is purely recreation, the principle is the same. (Unless they went the “optional extra” route of course.)

It is optional, they put both versions on the disc.

Same with the Doctor Who blurays, which is fortunate because they only ever seem to update the episodes that already have perfect VFX, like Timelash & the one with the giant rat

[Technopeasant]

That’s the thing with Blurays, you have ample room for both.

[Ben Saunders]

The TOS remastered effects are so shit. They look like fan-made animations somebody stuck on YouTube in 2008. Except that kind of thing has more soul.

I unfortunately watched TNG on Netflix so only ever saw the updated CGI, none of it bothered me but I feel like I’d rather just see the originals.

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

That’s the thing with Blurays, you have ample room for both.

Tbf they also included updated VFX on a lot of the DVDs.

 the one with the giant rat

The Talons of Weng Chiang… that or you were accidentally watching Ninja Turtles.

[Flap Jack]

Well, it’s good they did make the updated VFX optional, for physical media at least.

[Warbodog]

How’s this for pedantic meddling? Hopefully some people can finally sleep at night after more than 40 years of being vexed by a slightly inaccurate vantage point.

[Warbodog]

[Dave]

[Unrumble]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

How’s this for pedantic meddling? Hopefully some people can finally sleep at night after more than 40 years of being vexed by a slightly inaccurate vantage point.

Interesting how a vantage point can change your clothes too

[Unrumble]

Interesting how a vantage point can change your clothes too

[Moonlight]

That’s the thing with Blurays, you have ample room for both.

Gonna be a nerd and point out that this sort of thing is done with branching, which means you only need to store what footage is unique to each version rather than multiple copies of the entire episode. This is also how extended / director’s cuts on movies work. Unless you’re the fucked up Kino Blu-ray release of Nosferatu where for some inexplicable reason you’ve stored the English and German versions on two separate discs despite the only difference being the intertitles. And you’ve cut out every seventh frame, cropped it on all four sides and removed the color tinting.

I’m still annoyed about this.

[Warbodog]

I first experienced Nosferatu with the anachronistic Art Zoyd electronic score, so will always crave that. It sounds a bit Quarantiney in places.

[Unrumble]

[Warbodog]

It always seems distractingly unrealistic how quickly the others (presumably just Cat and Rimmer?) went to bed in this situation. Okay, I guess it is established for Cat. It seems like they were shown in one after the other, unless Lister hung around chatting to Legion for hours or needed a really, really long shit or something.

[Moonlight]

I first experienced Nosferatu with the anachronistic Art Zoyd electronic score, so will always crave that. It sounds a bit Quarantiney in places.

I have no idea what version it was I first saw Nosferatu on, a DVD with a particular soundtrack, but I’d love to be able to find it again. I still strongly remember two of the cues.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

That’s the thing with Blurays, you have ample room for both.

Gonna be a nerd and point out that this sort of thing is done with branching, which means you only need to store what footage is unique to each version rather than multiple copies of the entire episode. This is also how extended / director’s cuts on movies work. Unless you’re the fucked up Kino Blu-ray release of Nosferatu where for some inexplicable reason you’ve stored the English and German versions on two separate discs despite the only difference being the intertitles. And you’ve cut out every seventh frame, cropped it on all four sides and removed the color tinting.
I’m still annoyed about this.

I don’t know about blu-ray, but in all the DVD I’ve ripped over the years it’s always seemed to be entirely different files for the various versions 

[RunawayTrain]

I liked the TNG remastering; as I understood the purpose was to bring them in line with the rest of the remastered footage, to give the overall impression as originally intended. 

But I also understand wanting to keep the originals people know and love, the original quirks and charm of the show.  I wasn’t attached to TNG yet, at that point.  It’s made me wonder how I would feel about a properly remastered Red Dwarf, now that technology presumably does match their ambitions.  I’m not particularly attached to the shots themselves, but I do feel some emotional attachment to their place in the show’s history.

[Technopeasant]

I have absolutely no problem with new versions as long as the originals are archived. Anyone who has created anything will know that art is not finished so much as taken out of your hands, so that should be respected somewhat. 

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

I liked the remastering of TOS to the point where I rarely watch the OG version now. I wouldn’t mind seeing Red Dwarf done again so long as they don’t mess about with the script like they did the first time – chopping bits out and adding new Holly lines etc.

This is really mundane but I was wondering about this recently…

When Kryten discovers the Matter Paddle in Meltdown, why do they go to Starbug before using it to get to Wax World? 

[Rushy]

When Kryten discovers the Matter Paddle in Meltdown, why do they go to Starbug before using it to get to Wax World? 

Real life reason: because they wanted to use the set for whatever reason

In-universe reason: because Kryten flippantly suggested that he and Lister teleport there to prove its ability to Rimmer and the Cat. By the time Kryten and Lister emerge from the shower, Rimmer and the Cat had run off to the cargo bay already. 

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

When Kryten discovers the Matter Paddle in Meltdown, why do they go to Starbug before using it to get to Wax World? 

Real life reason: because they wanted to use the set for whatever reason
In-universe reason: because Kryten flippantly suggested that he and Lister teleport there to prove its ability to Rimmer and the Cat. By the time Kryten and Lister emerge from the shower, Rimmer and the Cat had run off to the cargo bay already. 

Thanks. It never stood out to me before but it’s totally superfluous to the story.
I noticed a few things like that in a recent binge, not plot holes as such but stones left unturned. Like when Holly powers down the ship in White Hole, why not move to a starbug? It’s better than running missions to and from the supply decks from the living quarters, which takes days, and it has its own power so no electric blanket or bicycle powered hairdryers required.

[Rushy]

Like when Holly powers down the ship in White Hole, why not move to a starbug? It’s better than running missions to and from the supply decks from the living quarters, which takes days, and it has its own power so no electric blanket or bicycle powered hairdryers required.

The elevators were offline, and the episode made a big point out of the crew having to smash through dozens of doors just to get to the science room. I think Starbug was just too far to bother until they had no choice. 

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

Like when Holly powers down the ship in White Hole, why not move to a starbug? It’s better than running missions to and from the supply decks from the living quarters, which takes days, and it has its own power so no electric blanket or bicycle powered hairdryers required.

The elevators were offline, and the episode made a big point out of the crew having to smash through dozens of doors just to get to the science room. I think Starbug was just too far to bother until they had no choice. 

But Rimmer and Kryten went down to the cargo decks for supplies and that’s where the Starbugs are. Plus they go to one when Holly gives them that computer slug. It would be far easier to move down there rather than having to take trips for supplies which take days. 

[Rushy]

But Rimmer and Kryten went down to the cargo decks for supplies and that’s where the Starbugs are.

There’s many, many decks for supplies. At least, according to the first book. 

I imagine the writers tactfully edited out the portion of the episode where it takes the crew half a year to get down there and check Holly’s data. 

[Flap Jack]

Even if they could get to a Starbug, they wouldn’t necessarily be able to launch out of Red Dwarf on it if the relevant systems were down.

[Moonlight]

[Rushy]

“Er, Holly, those cargo bay doors we talked about earlier…!?” is one of my favourite Kryten lines. He somehow manages to sound both extremely panicked and calm at the same time. 

[Warbodog]

Followed not long after with his optimistic breakdown of their dire situation (“I don’t think that’s going to prove to be a major problem, though…”)

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

I wasn’t suggesting they leave Red Dwarf. I mean stay on a Starbug in the hangar. If all you’re using is heat and cooking things then the power should last a while and being a small craft made of small rooms it would be easier to keep warm. Meanwhile the cargo decks are adjoining. Much easier than powering an electric blanket with bicycle and trekking from the officers’ quarters to the cargo decks and back on the regular. 

[Technopeasant]

Much easier than powering an electric blanket with bicycle and trekking from the officers’ quarters to the cargo decks and back on the regular. 

But would that be as funny?

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

I’m sure they could have made it funny with them being shut up together aboard Starbug, something like Quarantine. 

[Technopeasant]

The entire joke of the bicycle is it’s absurd though.

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

Yeah, they’d obviously make different jokes but there’s no reason it wouldn’t still be funny. 

[Warbodog]

“I never realised how dependant we were, I never realised how little I know” is the thoughtful takeaway of the episode, so I wouldn’t want to lose that for the crew making more efficient decisions and going somewhere with electricity.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Whilst I appreciate them going to Starbug could still be funny, it completely changes the context of the episode 

It stops being about them stuck in a powerless ship and becomes a series 6 episode 

[Dave]

[Warbodog]

Based on Demons & Angels figures (which seem really exaggerated for that pesky humour again, but anyway), pre-VI Starbugs had very limited power and oxygen, so wouldn’t have been a long-term option anyway.

Okay, you could solve the oxygen problem by leaving the door open and breathing Red Dwarf air, but would they remember?

[Cardinal_Hordriss]

Based on Demons & Angels figures (which seem really exaggerated for that pesky humour again, but anyway), pre-VI Starbugs had very limited power and oxygen, so wouldn’t have been a long-term option anyway.
Okay, you could solve the oxygen problem by leaving the door open and breathing Red Dwarf air, but would they remember?

Oh yeah, the bug would run flat eventually but not for a while with all the flight systems etc. being switched off. 

I also agree with the sentiment about them being trapped and powerless, I’m not saying it would have been better had they gone to Starbug. I just think that it’s an obvious base not covered by the script. I would have included some explanation of why they stay put in the officers’ quarters because even taking Starbug out of the equation it doesn’t make sense not to go nearer to where the food is. 

[Podey]

TBF ‘White Hole’ aired 34 years ago and I don’t think any of us had thought of them just going to Starbug before this conversation so I’m not sure it’s *that* obvious, unless we’re all just thick.

[Author]

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