Refresh For The Memory: Series IV Byte 1

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching CAMILLE, DNA and JUSTICE. Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1
Series 1 Byte 2
Series 2 Byte 1
Series 2 Byte 2
Series III Byte 1
Series III Byte 2

[Ian Symes]

This week’s thread was deliberately late as a mark of respect for Her Majesty The Queen.

[Warbodog]

[Flap Jack]

“I don’t want people to be sad at my funeral. It should be a joyous celebration of my life. Specifically, I want everyone to watch the classic Red Dwarf episode ‘Camille’. That Kryten fellow is one funny fucker.” – HM Queen Liz 2

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

“I don’t want people to be sad at my funeral. It should be a joyous celebration of my life. Specifically, I want everyone to watch the classic Red Dwarf episode ‘Camille’. That Kryten fellow is one funny fucker.” – HM Queen Liz 2

[Warbodog]

Good old series IV. No one’s particular favourite, it seems (I can do second), but a real comfort zone, no doubt partly because it was the first Red Dwarf I ever saw (tantalisingly briefly).

There’s a clear transition to me in the sci-fi sitcom starting to take itself more seriously – but not too seriously. With the “crap”/”embarrassing” Doctor Who cancelled, it steps up (however intentionally) as the big home-grown sci-fi for the postmodern 90s, ingeniously avoiding the same unflattering comparisons to US imports (Star Trek: TNG had started its BBC broadcast a few months earlier) by leaning into the comedy when they need to pull off a risky monster suit. And also by just looking great generally.

Oh yeah, Camille. Not a hugely popular one in polls, I always ranked it fairly high for a couple of stand-out scenes and partly on the basis of it just being some extremely watchable Red Dwarf IV. It’s slipped down a bit this time, but thoughtful character work gave it the edge over Polymorph.

– The best opening titles. A good mix of dramatic, funny and plain weird, it also syncs very nicely with the music.

– Lister’s look is iconic, but maybe to an action figure extent. Is it colder in the bunkroom these days? This episode probably has the most classic Cat ensemble too.

– I’d somehow never noticed just how much this is a rework of that earlier Kryten episode where he re-enacted an old movie to break his programming, but Lister’s more determined in his mentoring and Rimmer’s more casually domineering now he’s got used to it.

– Oddly, this story could make more sense if they’d skipped a series and this was Kryten’s reintroduction, in which case the Hammy conversation would have been a clear allusion to the actor change.

– But there is some series III continuity in Rimmer using Kryten as his chauffeur – that inclusive “new lease of life for both of us” he was so eager to get started when teaching him to pilot.

– The distress call scene was supposed to have taken place after 9 hours of asteroid spotting during which Kryten presumably restrained himself. Rightly deleted.

– Does Rimmer seriously not get what Kryten’s trying to say? “I’m a fuhh cuhh?”

– What does the rock theme signify when they return to Red Dwarf? Is it Lister’s theme?

– A-deck, G-deck? Our first subtle hint of this series’ big continuity overhaul.

– Slimy, psychic Pleasure GELFs are believably from similar stock to Polymorphs. Less so the later Kinitawowi types, which are just GELFs because they can’t be aliens.

– Parrot’s: an unusual name and over-the-top set design for what could have been a generic bar. All necessary so you’ll actually remember it for the pun!

– The Casablanca homage only really amounts to about a minute at the end. I didn’t see Casablanca until a few years ago, but hadn’t felt I was missing out, since it’s clearly explained. It’s more Kryten (episode) than Back to Earth.

– I used to consider the opening scene the most classic single slice of Red Dwarf, but less so now. Cat’s high five even stole the episode.

[Loathsome American]

Very much agreed that Series IV has the best opening credits. No question in my mind: the most dramatic-looking, action-packed set of clips. 

CAMILLE: The Cat meeting his ideal mate alone would justify the premise. One of the all-time great conceptual jokes the show ever did, and even though the surprise is long gone, the timing of the reveal is so good I laugh every time. 

DNA: I’ve never been crazy about this one and would go so far as to suggest it’s the worst episode so far. I find Robert’s performance as “human Kryten” genuinely off-putting, and “tiny pseudo-Robocop Lister” is no better. 

JUSTICE: This is an all-timer, and the Simulant showdown at the end works better than any action sequence the show’s done so far. 

It’s a bit embarrassing but I have to admit: even after all these years, I have no idea at this point whether Rimmer is actually supposed to be responsible for the accident. Is Kryten’s defense just bluffing or did Rimmer genuinely not cause the accident? And if so, is that a component of the “new” continuity in the same way Lister has now actually been in a relationship with Kochanski, or are we to interpret that even in Series 1 Rimmer was taking responsibility for an accident he had nothing to do with?

[Unrumble]

I used to consider the opening scene the most classic single slice of Red Dwarf, but less so now. 

Maybe the fact that it’s been referenced/memed to death? 

[Unrumble]

Camille 

– I think after 25-odd years I’ve just twigged that the title is a play on/shortened version of ‘chameleon’. Fuck me.

– it’s crazy how the tweaked mask and vocal performance make Kryten seem almost like a completely new character. 

– speaking of new characters, I feel like Listers “lying is a vital part of your psychological defence system” bit really kicks up a gear the idea of him as a much more intelligent guy. He might even have learned what an iguana is by now.

– much better, cleaner look for Hattie’s Holly. On par with the de-pixelization of Norm between series I & II.

– always thought the ‘throttle-acting’ after Kryten says “damn my programming! ” could’ve used another take.

– one of my all-time faves, masterfully delivered: “you’ll like them. Well, some of them… well, one of them… maybe.”

– Kryten & Rimmer’s whole cross-purposes chat about Camille in the cockpit is gold. “Do you think I’m attractive?!” 

– Lister in full perv mode. It’s more than a bit sleazy. I know, exaggeration = comedy, and she’s the first real woman he’s encountered in a while who isn’t dead, his future bride, running backwards, or a genetic mutant (though as he’s about to discover… ), but still… 

– Eraserhead and Captain Sadness. Perfection. 

– this episode is a belter, and it whizzes by. When Hector turned up, I couldn’t believe it was almost finished. I think I used to fall into the trap of thinking this was a lesser episode because the overall premise/story seems a bit low-key on paper, compared to the rest of IV. But that’s utter poppycock when you watch it, it’s just so hilarious and well-written. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It’s a bit embarrassing but I have to admit: even after all these years, I have no idea at this point whether Rimmer is actually supposed to be responsible for the accident. Is Kryten’s defense just bluffing or did Rimmer genuinely not cause the accident? And if so, is that a component of the “new” continuity in the same way Lister has now actually been in a relationship with Kochanski, or are we to interpret that even in Series 1 Rimmer was taking responsibility for an accident he had nothing to do with?

He caused the accident, but it wasn’t his responsibility.  There’s a chain of command that put someone ill qualified in place to fix a vital part of the ship.  They are ultimately responsible for what happened.

The Justice computer – as Kryten explains – senses guilt.  Rimmer feels guilty for what happened, but it wasn’t his fault.  In reality he probably did the best job he could.

Kryten summarily argues that, it is that guilt which Rimmer will always live with, that is the true punishment.  Locking him up won’t resolve any of it.

This isn’t a component of the new continuity.  It is perhaps a fresh perspective of it.

This does beg the question – if the Justice computer works on sensing guilt, what of people that do not at all feel guilty for the crimes they committed?  Psychopaths will surely go free.

[Flap Jack]

He caused the accident, but it wasn’t his responsibility.  There’s a
chain of command that put someone ill qualified in place to fix a vital
part of the ship.  They are ultimately responsible for what happened.

Definitely this. Though I have thought that there’s potential for them to do a “Justice 2” where it’s discovered that Rimmer actually did repair the drive plate correctly, but it was sabotaged by someone else. You could make the build up to it like a whole courtroom/crime drama where the holograms of former crewmembers like Hollister, Petersen, Todhunter, Kochanski etc. get activated and questioned/cross-examined.

Rimmer isn’t in any way responsible for the radiation leak in the novels and it seemed fine there, so I don’t think his role in it is essential to his character.

This does beg the question – if the Justice computer works on sensing
guilt, what of people that do not at all feel guilty for the crimes they
committed?  Psychopaths will surely go free.

I interpret “it detects guilt” as meaning it can sense guilt in a legal sense, not an emotional sense. So even if the psychopath doesn’t care, they’d still have the knowledge that they committed those crimes.

Although the Justice computer could still be fooled by someone who was able to disocciate whenever they committed horrible crimes, so they didn’t think they did them.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Although the Justice computer could still be fooled by someone who was able to disocciate whenever they committed horrible crimes, so they didn’t think they did them.

If you didn’t register that you did as a crime would the Justice computer pick it up? Even if your interpretation of it, which I suspect is probably more accurate, a lot of white collar criminals probably don’t view their actions as criminal.  It wouldn’t necessarily be something their conscious of having done.  At least not to the extent of a murderer who doesn’t feel guilty.  So when being scanned, could the prop route out that memory?

Red Dwarf is also a funny one as it treats memory like we treat data stored on a disc.  The brain someone containing bits that can be read at will.  But what of someone who had genuinely forgotten, or wasn’t aware of the crime etc

There’s a lot of instances where the computer is simply flawed.  It won’t pick up on a lot of crimes, and it is clearly incarcerating innocent people who have some sense of guilt for things they shouldn’t.

[Flap Jack]

If you didn’t register that you did as a crime would the Justice
computer pick it up? Even if your interpretation of it, which I suspect
is probably more accurate, a lot of white collar criminals probably
don’t view their actions as criminal.  It wouldn’t necessarily be
something their conscious of having done.  At least not to the extent of
a murderer who doesn’t feel guilty.  So when being scanned, could the
prop route out that memory?

My interpretation is that it scans all of your memories, and compares them to its understanding of the law, on the basis that ignorance of the law is not usually considered a defence.

But regardless I think there will still be ways it will either fail to pick up on crimes you’ve committed or unjustly punish you for crimes you didn’t commit. I don’t think the Justice computer is meant to be seen as utopian, and no system of justice which depends on incaraceration ever could be.

[Dave]

This always feels like the start of the show’s golden age for me.

Series IV and V were the first Dwarf that I ever saw, so it’s probably a bit of a sense of rose-tinted spectacles to some extent. But even when rewatching the whole thing in order, I think you can get a sense of the show getting comfortable with the core concepts and relationships in Series 1, then bringing in some wilder ideas in Series 2, then updating the look and feel of the show and adding a bit more action in Series III, and then perfecting the formula that mixes them all together in IV.

It might not be my favourite series overall – that’s probably V or 2 or VI, depending on the day you ask me – but I’d probably hold up IV as being maybe the most pure Red Dwarf that the show ever gets.

And these episodes are all great – brilliant, thought-provoking central concepts and also so, so funny. Camille is wonderful (the whole thing is very compelling and heartfelt, and stuff like the double-Cat scene manages to be clever and funny and beautifully in-character and technically brilliant all at once) and Justice is maybe the best sci-fi adventure-style episode they ever did and my favourite of this Byte.

And even as the weakest episode of this half-series, DNA is full of great ideas that are funny and clever and genuinely interesting at the same time, and has some all-time classic scenes like the double-polaroid and the spare heads.

If at least one of these episodes doesn’t make it into your top ten, then there’s no

[Warbodog]

I think after 25-odd years I’ve just twigged that the title is a play on/shortened version of ‘chameleon’. Fuck me.

I had to be told it on here. Watching the relevant Casablanca clip, I see ‘Hector’ is a substitute for ‘Victor.’

Lister in full perv mode. It’s more than a bit sleazy. I know, exaggeration = comedy, and she’s the first real woman he’s encountered in a while who isn’t dead, his future bride, running backwards, or a genetic mutant (though as he’s about to discover… ), but still… 

I was thinking Pleasure GELFs might affect hormones/behaviour on the chemical/mechanical level beyond just putting on an appealing front, to explain Kryten and Lister’s rapid love/lust respectively, but I’m just trying to excuse him. It wouldn’t be as bad if Rimmer was still there to commentate, but unfortunately he gets away with it.

[Stabbim]

I forever love the ridiculousness of the bit in Justice where the simulant first gets loose, hears Holly on the monitor, shoots at her, and Holly ducks.

Even though she doesn’t need to and shouldn’t really be able to.

[Loathsome American]

I guess I better mark today in the calendar as “The Day I Finally Understood What Is Happening in ‘Justice’.”

For about 25 years at this point I’d been interpreting Kryten’s argument as being that Rimmer COULDN’T have caused the accident because he is so incompetent that no one WOULD have given him such a vital duty. Which doesn’t actually make a whole lot of sense except as a bluff. But if the argument is that Rimmer DID cause the accident but is so incompetent that no one SHOULD have given him such a vital duty, that makes sense as an actual defense. 

This entire rewatch exercise has been worth it for me for this if nothing else. 

[Warbodog]

The most famously shuffled broadcast order, back in the days when overcautious broadcasters would let current events interfere with comedy schedules, the unrecognisable recording order was: Justice, Dimension Jump, Meltdown, Camille, White Hole, DNA.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

You couldn’t make Red Dwarf these days as the fact everyone dies would remind people of The Queen too much

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

IKryten summarily argues that, it is that guilt which Rimmer will always live with, that is the true punishment.

Well if you want to get technical lived with it for a little while, died with it and was then hologrammatically re-created with it.

[Unrumble]

The most famously shuffled broadcast order, back in the days when overcautious broadcasters would let current events interfere with comedy schedules, the unrecognisable recording order was: Justice, Dimension Jump, Meltdown, Camille, White Hole, DNA.

So the series would’ve started with space mumps and ended on “this guy’s pure class”. What a world. 

[Dave]

I was never sure how true it was that Bobby thought that DNA being recorded last meant that he might remain maskless through Series V, but I like the idea. 

[Warbodog]

So the series would’ve started with space mumps and ended on “this guy’s pure class”. What a world. 

Those were the two exact bits of the series I managed to catch on the reshuffled ’94 repeat run and my first Red Dwarf experiences (thanks to cwickham’s BBC broadcasts guide for confirming).

I saw the start of Justice as far as Lister’s head bursting before being picked up from my grandparents’ house (it probably would have been rude to ask to hang around and watch their telly for a bit longer), then weeks later my dad changed over from whatever commercial channel we’d been watching to catch the curry monster bit.

This is why I don’t agree with the notion that you have to show someone a really coherent episode to get into the series.

[Stilianides]

Camille

When I rewatched the opening titles the other day, it brought back some memories of seeing them when they were first broadcast. There was a real feeling of comfort, for me, in watching Series IV, V and VI, because you knew that you were going to be watching something good. That’s not to say that nothing worthwhile came later, but when a show returns, there will always be that fear of, “Is it as good as it used to be?”

Camille might not be the most popular episode from Series IV, but it’s still of a very high quality. The lying scene kind of contradicts the ending to The Last Day, but I think it was fortuitous that it would up being the series opener for that reason.

I do understand the criticism that Kryten and Camille weren’t given enough screentime to develop a relationship (even though the script explains this away with the love at first sight comment), and as the show came in a couple of minutes short, they probably could have expanded that idea a little.

I think this is one of the first examples of Rob and Doug giving an episode the specific structure of: introduce a concept in the first scene, pay it off in the conclusion (Meltdown and Holoship being other examples).

Many memorable moments and Cat meeting himself is a classic.

[Rudolph]

I really rather like IV. It feels like the show is finally firing on all pistons.

Moving to Shepperton is so noticeable – no longer relegated to the gantries and outdated studios of BBC Manchester, the new cameras and lighting give it a cleaner, glossier feel. The sets are looking great, as they’re finally able to build an interconnecting standing set and Starbug’s cockpit has finally got the proper pilot chairs and joysticks.

I was never a fan of Kryten’s mask in III, as I always felt it looked too fleshlike. I love the new mask here, giving it a softer, lighter look.

Lister has also added big, proper space biker boots and leather trousers to his ensemble. Craig has mentioned that Lister was increasingly looking like he should be in Judas Priest, and you can see what he means. Whilst he did have the leather jacket last series, the new look was still coming together.

[Warbodog]

D.N.A. (with punctuation G&T, TOS, DVD box, DVD features, Official Companion, Programme Guide and probably everything else)

Formerly dangling near the bottom of the bubble, I’ve come to appreciate this one more since I got used to Bobby in it. His laugh’s still creepy, but it doesn’t send actual chills down my spine any more.

The entire zoom/nipples/polaroid scene (pre-laughter) does a lot of lifting, because it’s amazing. Maybe the best writing in Red Dwarf, it keeps going and going.

The daft ending drags it down.
The curry monster on its own works, even if it feels tacked on to meet a non-existent network monster quota, but then it turns into a different, sillier show for the remainder. Being the last one filmed makes some sense of it.

– Outside of the polaroid scene, my favourite bit is Rimmer’s logical leap about the video club card.

– I’ve never liked the opening where they’re babbling over each other and pretending to type proficiently. Ed’s fault?

– “Kochanski had just–” What? I knew it was coming, but watching these in order, that was still weird.

– Spare Head Three claims he’s 30,000 years old. A head with droid rot could get his decimal points wrong. (Is it the organic part of his brain that’s rotted?) Or was this another continuity revision they then undid? (“Do you think three million’s a bit much?”)

– I was always confused about the implications of the spare heads, but I’ll assume each head downloads its memories to the next so it doesn’t make any difference which head is in which episode.

– Kryten’s costume medley doesn’t really come across to me even with the behind-the-scenes explanation.

[Warbodog]

I think this is one of the first examples of Rob and Doug giving an episode the specific structure of: introduce a concept in the first scene, pay it off in the conclusion

I had to go all the way back, but Balance of Power could fit.

[Unrumble]

I was always confused about the implications of the spare heads, but I’ll assume each head downloads its memories to the next so it doesn’t make any difference which head is in which episode.

Feel like Tikka muddies this a bit. Lister enlists Spare Head 2 to help endorse his time-travelling curry hunt. I used to vaguely assume this meant that ‘Main Head’ Kryten wouldn’t remember any of it, odd as that would be.

But using your theory, which I like, presumably once Main Head is back on top, he remembers the events, and is appalled. Surely a huge ethical violation, that Lister should at least have some qualms over? I guess he is ‘curry-obsessed’ though, which qualifies such behaviour. Gary Bushell was right after all… 

[Warbodog]

It’s only an issue if “my turn to be main head next month” means they have an ongoing rota system. It could just be a rare treat when he services his main head once a year (between series), they are spares after all.

[Flap Jack]

But using your theory, which I like, presumably once Main Head is back
on top, he remembers the events, and is appalled. Surely a huge ethical
violation, that Lister should at least have some qualms over? I guess he
is ‘curry-obsessed’ though, which qualifies such behaviour. Gary
Bushell was right after all…

Well, even if Kryten’s “main head” didn’t remember, surely Rimmer or Cat would have told him about it anyway.

[Flap Jack]

Camille – A strong start to the series and a solid Kryten episode. I do find the romance story incredibly rushed and the ending even more so, but the episode is so full of classic scenes and moments that it’s not a deal-breaker.

– It is funny that the very last episode has Kryten lying easily, while this episode is all about Kryten learning to lie, but I’m more than happy to rationalise that as (A) it’s easier for mechanoids to lie to other mechanoids, and (B) Hudzen had made it clear he was going to kill the crew, so it makes sense that Kryten’s anti-lying programming would be lower priority than his protect human life programming, in an Asimov’s laws kind of way (and obviously lying to protect oneself or to spare someone’s feelings or to influence someone to do something that would be better for them are a lot more ambiguous cases).

– I bet Lister somewhat regrets teaching Kryten to lie by Back to Earth.

– I just can’t hear that line about Marlon Brando anymore without imagining Lister following it up with “I did kill him, you know.”

– Notice how Camille dodges Kryten’s question about what happened to the rest of the crew of her ship, and we never get an answer. She blatantly killed and ate them.

– It doesn’t really make sense for Cat to say “Heartbreaker!” considering that he knew Camille was a GELF to begin with, but if anything this just makes it funnier.

– I’m glad they at least had a line asking whether Holly was affected by Camille, but it’s a shame Camille didn’t have a form for her. Missed opportunity for her to appear as Kevin Keegan.

– Hey, what did Karl Malden do to deserve that insult? I guess he can join Ringo Starr, Olivia Newton-John, Doug McClure and Ishtar in the ‘unfairly maligned by Rob and Doug’ club.

– The ending just doesn’t feel thought through enough. Why can’t Hector just stay on Red Dwarf too? He could continue his work, Camille can stay partnered with Kryten (or she could try being polyamorous). What’s the problem? And the possibility of Kryten leaving with her isn’t explored either. It’s not even clear why her “condition” needs a cure, considering she can just turn off her pleasure GELF abilities at will.

– Also regarding the ending, what’s even the lie that Kryten tells? He must believe that Camille going with Hector is the best thing for her, and that she’d ultimately regret staying, or else he’d have no reason to tell her so. If he’d said “I don’t really love you, not as much as Hector does” then I’d get it – but if he had said that then I wouldn’t class that kind of emotional manipulation as ethical deceit. Let her make her own fully informed decisions, Kryten.

– Another ending thing: Kryten saying that Camille “belongs to” Hector is incredibly gross.

[International Debris]

I love IV. My third favourite series, but really consistent.

Camille

Kryten being so impressed at lying when the last scene he was in ended with him lying never fails to feel awkward.

Small gags that make me laugh: “so we’re not being overtaken by stationary objects”

Tales of the Riverbank: The Next Generation always felt like a very bad attempt at trying to recreate the Wilma Flintstone scene. Interesting that it ended up in the first episode again.

Kryten’s fall is hilariously bad.

Misheard line: scan mode cancel.

Ah, now Kryten is a series 4000. Does the show contradict itself so much so quickly as The Last Day and Camille in the Rob era?

Lister coming in with his incredibly mature attitude to women again. 

A Pleasure GELF must be a headfuck in a crowd if everyone hears different answers to questions.

Misheard line: where is the A Deck?

Double Cat scene a rightful classic.

Parrot’s Bar’s second and final appearance, Kryten’s suit’s second and final appearance, both in two episodes. The parallels between these two episodes are interesting.

The characters are all fully developed at this point, aren’t they? It’s like they’ve been developing for three years, but they take this form for the next three. 

I’ve still never seen Casablanca.

Misheard line: goodbye Kryten, and bless you.

[Warbodog]

Parrot’s Bar’s second and final appearance, Kryten’s suit’s second and final appearance, both in two episodes.

It was just the Officers’ Club in The Last Day , though the bird hat(s?) did make me wonder. Actually, it is nicer if he takes her to the same place, let’s say it is.

The characters are all fully developed at this point, aren’t they? It’s like they’ve been developing for three years, but they take this form for the next three. 

I thought this too, but then remembered VI messes around with some of them a bit. In Backwards I couldn’t work out whether Chris Barrie had arrived at his most familiar ‘Rimmer voice’ yet, but here he is. Lister’s quicker on the deductions than in Backwards and less selfish than in Timeslides.

[Loathsome American]

Lister’s quicker on the deductions than in Backwards and less selfish than in Timeslides.

Doing the full-series rewatch like this, it does seem like IV is where Lister suddenly becomes the sort of Chaotic Good man of principle. Trying to teach David Ross Kryten to rebel is mostly a reflection of Lister’s own rebelliousness, but in “Camille” it feels more like a deliberate moral obligation Lister sets for himself. By “Justice” he takes it upon himself to moralize. He’s started reading philosophy books, maybe?

[Loathsome American]

In “Justice,” Lister finds the idea of shooting an unarmed rogue simulant in the back to be morally repugnant. In “The Last Day,” Lister essentially tried just that with Hudzen. It’s possible between III and IV, Lister tries to develop a keener sense of ethics? Perhaps the implications of what he was willing to do in “Timeslides” shocked him, and he is actively trying to become a better person? 

A headcanon is developing.

[Unrumble]

In “Justice,” Lister finds the idea of shooting an unarmed rogue simulant in the back to be morally repugnant. In “The Last Day,” Lister essentially tried just that with Hudzen. It’s possible between III and IV, Lister tries to develop a keener sense of ethics? Perhaps the implications of what he was willing to do in “Timeslides” shocked him, and he is actively trying to become a better person? 
A headcanon is developing.

This will now be running through my head when I watch ‘Justice’!

[Unrumble]

DNA

– considering his almost religious fascination with aliens in series I & II, Rimmer’s very blase about potential contact here. He must really hate Pennsylvania 65000.

– two consecutive scenes with gags highlighting the Cat’s vanity, amongst other things. Both good, but I’d give the edge to Rimmer listing all his ‘best’ features.

– I can understand Robert’s human-Kryten performance being a bit marmite, but it works for me. 

– the Spanish air-traffic control joke is a big dud. 

– Listers squirrel story on its own is a bit flat also, but as a setup to Rimmer’s excellent “Nutkin” response, it’ll do. 

– sounds like a reused sound effect from Polymorph, when the beast steps in the puddle of lager. Not sure if its the first time I’m noticing that. 

– interesting that there’s been a few comments about DNA being something of a weak link in series IV. While I’ll give you the ‘Man +’ ending being a bit of a so-so finale, I don’t personally find the rest of the episode to be noticeably down in the performance, gag or story stakes. 

[Stilianides]

D.N.A.

The opening 20 minutes or so of this episode are almost as good as anything in series 4 imo. Kryten becoming human is a great comedic idea and the scenes with Lister and with the spare heads are pretty much perfect to me.

I also enjoy Rimmer’s delight at Lister being turned into a chicken, and I guess those schadenfreude moments would become more and more a part of the show over the next couple of years.

The conclusion feels a little too rushed and busy, and the special effects are also not quite what they needed to be. The explosion itself is fine, but some of it is not exactly convincing.

[Warbodog]

Justice

A really impressive episode. It’s shocking that it’s never made top 10 in any of the fan polls (even when there were only 30 episodes), but then, it was always a bit outside for me too. Maybe because the likes of Quarantine and Legion felt like they were better equivalents, or because in feeling like the closest thing to an impossibly ‘definitive’ Red Dwarf episode, it ends up a bit too reminiscent of others.

It’s got the comedy physics of Backwards, the ominous threat and confrontation from The Last Day / Polymorph, Rimmer’s mind having it in for him – it’s a Best of Dwarf that refines all that while also being heavily grounded in the lore and characters. It’s already beating some old favourites, but many contenders are still to come.

– I love the structure. We get so caught up in the Rimmer yolk of the story that we forget it was a distraction in the first place, and we’re suddenly back in the… albumen with a scary Borg-Terminator fucker who won’t be contained by escort boots. But our guys have learned from their experience, so it will clearly be a victory of wits. It may take some time.

– Space mumps is not integral to the plot in any way (what is this, series I-III?), but it makes for such a fun opening that the inefficiency is excused.

– I love the concept of Rimmer’s internal expedition through the diesel decks, that is some novel scale shit. This and White Hole bring the bigness back.

– This would have made a great opener, with its surprise Lister reveal and delayed, applause-baiting entrances for Cat and Rimmer at their insulting best.

– But then Kryten’s lie mode continuity would’ve been ruined further, so never mind.

– Rimmer gets to be Cat in some scenes, getting the biggest laughs and best delivery out of minimal responses. “Oh, that.”

– The ending is the only weak bit, and unnecessary. Maybe they should have ended on Cat’s fall. (But did they get out? Is Cat dead?)

[Dave]

In “Justice,” Lister finds the idea of shooting an unarmed rogue simulant in the back to be morally repugnant. In “The Last Day,” Lister essentially tried just that with Hudzen. It’s possible between III and IV, Lister tries to develop a keener sense of ethics?

I think shooting Hudzen face-to-face when he tries to attack the Dwarfers is a little bit different to shooting a (purportedly peaceful) simulant in the back unawares.

[Unrumble]

In “Justice,” Lister finds the idea of shooting an unarmed rogue simulant in the back to be morally repugnant. In “The Last Day,” Lister essentially tried just that with Hudzen. It’s possible between III and IV, Lister tries to develop a keener sense of ethics?

I think shooting Hudzen face-to-face when he tries to attack the Dwarfers is a little bit different to shooting a (purportedly peaceful) simulant in the back unawares.

Good point, he’s trying to stop Hudzen physically assaulting one of the others, and has probably figured out by now diplomacy isn’t going to work

[Unrumble]

Justice

– Taj Mahal, Elephant Man, Ripleys’ Believe It Or Not, Iranian Jird… that’s a lot of references from the Cat. I can buy him chilling out and binging some Flinstones, a Tales Of the Riverbank boxset perhaps, but some of them are a little incongruous. Guess it’s a case of “we really like this joke we’ve written, it will sound funniest coming from Cat (or we need to give Danny some more lines)”. The idea of him watching enough American football to reference specific teams though…

– “that has been accounted for” I guess if it works for BTL, sure, why not. Handwave City. 

– ooo, so if the mind probe detects Rimmer’s guilt about the accident, why not Kryten’s about the Nova 5? It’s established in Polymorph that he experiences it, and in Beyond a Joke seems to be accepting of “You killed the crew!” 

– “Occupation?” “Bum” is funny, but it suggests that he’s been drifting in deep space long enough that he’s adapted/consigned to his situation, to the point he no longer considers himself a technician, or bound by the hierarchical structure of an extinct society. 

– ‘ang on a minute, if this is the exact facility the simulant was incarcerated in, shouldn’t he be acutely aware of the mechanics of the justice field? I suppose the fact he’s clearly deranged could explain that away.

[Unrumble]

he’s been drifting in deep space long enough that he’s adapted/consigned to his situation

*resigned. Couldn’t let that one go.

[Flap Jack]

– ooo, so if the mind probe detects Rimmer’s guilt about the accident, why not Kryten’s about the Nova 5? It’s established in Polymorph that he experiences it, and in Beyond a Joke seems to be accepting of “You killed the crew!” 

My headcanon to cover for this terrible retcon of Doug’s essentially says that whatever Kryten did to cause the crash was under direct orders, so running with that, I reason that as a mechanoid he would logically understand he ultimately did not bear responsibility. While Rimmer thinks he is guilty, even though he isn’t.

[Warbodog]

“that has been accounted for” I guess if it works for BTL, sure, why not. Handwave City.

I think it’s as simple as them just being hologram boots. Intangible like Rimmer, or hard light and he can still use them. Otherwise you can go down the holowhip route.

if this is the exact facility the simulant was incarcerated in, shouldn’t he be acutely aware of the mechanics of the justice field?

He was on a prison ship that was heading to the facility.

Camille and DNA already had convenient encounters with derelicts*, but this episode makes it clear that they’re now in a (formerly) populated area of space. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, and it basically ruins the original premise of the series quite a bit, but it’s necessary to free up more types of stories for a series that kept going longer than they probably expected.

* The Nova 5 was the first example, but I figure that used the same advanced jump drive as the novel to put it deliberately far out. I guess we all have more headcanon than we realise.

[Unrumble]

I think it’s as simple as them just being hologram boots. Intangible like Rimmer, or hard light and he can still use them. Otherwise you can go down the holowhip route.

Legit, who needs hard-light, eh?

He was on a prison ship that was heading to the facility.

[Flap Jack]

Legit, who needs hard-light, eh?

The justice computer hacks into Rimmer’s light bee and forces it to simulate the boots.

[Stilianides]

Space mumps is not integral to the plot in any way (what is this, series I-III?), but it makes for such a fun opening that the inefficiency is excused. 

That’s interesting. I was just about to post my thoughts about the ep and how essential and clever Lister’s illness is. :)

[Stilianides]

Justice

I think Rob and Doug’s plotting in this ep is some of their absolute best, and the opening ten minutes feels pretty bulletproof to me.

To have the Cat start the RP process, they needed the pod to arrive when the crew were scattered. Having Lister on his sickbed fits the plot perfectly, but they also do it in a brilliantly inventive way. Rimmer’s holiday is similarly inspired genius.

Great production standards, for the most part, particularly the exploding shoes and Craig’s make-up.

The Justice courtroom does look crazily cheap, but I can’t say it bothers me hugely. The dialog is enough to make up for it.

[Warbodog]

Great production standards, for the most part, particularly the exploding shoes and Craig’s make-up.
The Justice courtroom does look crazily cheap, but I can’t say it bothers me hugely.

I think I let that count against it in the past, which is ignoring how gorgeous most of the episode is. Even the sleeping quarters scenes look so nice with Cat’s purple accent, then the red and blue of the Simulant scene, obviously the Justice World model.

[Author]

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