Refresh For The Memory: Series VI Byte 2

[Ian Symes]

You asked for it. Ahead of the forthcoming 35th anniversary poll, the G&T community is embarking on a big old rewatch, tackling half a series (or one feature length special) per week. This is your designated thread to make notes, share observations and start pondering your rankings.

This week, we’re watching EMOHAWK – POLYMORPH II, RIMMERWORLD and OUT OF TIME. Have at it!

Previous threads:

Series 1 Byte 1
Series 1 Byte 2
Series 2 Byte 1
Series 2 Byte 2
Series III Byte 1
Series III Byte 2
Series IV Byte 1
Series IV Byte 2
Series V Byte 1
Series V Byte 2
Series VI Byte 1

Topic

[Warbodog]

I feel like Series VI was the show going the furthest that it could in this direction. Even if Rob had stuck around, I think the tone would have had to change again (as it often had previously) for any future series.

As much as I think the cracks are showing in VI, I don’t find it disappointing, just inevitable for a long-running show written by the same two people having to be endlessly inventive.

It’s a sad omen that the final Grant Naylor series featured a gestalt-author surrogate describing itself as exponentially greater than the sum of its parts.

[Jenuall]

I do always wonder how much the events in the run up to VI contribute to not only how that series turns out, but also to the general strain and eventually collapse of the Grant Naylor partnership and Rob’s desire to continue with the show beyond that.

Series V was by all accounts something of a clusterfuck to get done – directorial issues, last minute reshoots, scrabbled attempts to bring things together in the edit etc. You then jump straight from that to the pair of them travelling to the states and fighting tooth and nail against all manner of US production issues to try and get not one but two versions of a pilot together. Then they get back from the US and are given a harsh deadline in which to get the scripts together for VI which results in them reaching the point of shooting the final episode without actually having finished the script. Given all of that it’s not massively surprising to me that VI adopts more of a template format to speed up the process and that the pair of them would be seriously burned out by the end of it!

[Stilianides]

It’s interesting that Rob said that the original concept for bringing Duane back in Series VI was that the Cat would turn into him during times of stress and it would be a running joke. You can imagine how it would be difficult to make it work.

And an early idea for Out of Time was that they would construct a full Lister android, but Peter Wragg told them it would be impossible with so little time and money.

[Flap Jack]

Out of Time – A great episode, and an especially impressive one once you learn about the deadlines that meant the final script wasn’t even ready for rehearsals. Both of its sci-fi concepts, the reality bubbles and the time drive, are good, and it’s commendable that they don’t feel wasted for only taking up half an episode each, Skipper style. It was also extremely bold to end such a comedy-focused series with a totally dramatic scene. Shame about the eventual resolution, and the seriousness was probably an ill portent for Series 7 in general, but damn, “Better dead than smeg” hits hard every time.

– It is funny how un-Red Dwarf “that pan-dimensional liquid beast from the Mogidon cluster” sounds. For lore reasons, I guess we have to assume that humanity created this creature too. Sure, whatever, I guess.

– Feels so strange to get a Petersen reference this late on. Appreciated, though.

– It’s a shame that Lister dropped out of art college. Based on how quickly he assembled that chocolate finger log cabin, he clearly had huge talents that he never used. The Inquisitor was right.

– Is that a head of a deer that Cat gets from one of the reality bubbles, or is it

– So the creators of the time drive “programmed the autopilot for deep space”? How do you set “deep space” as your destination, and why? This question also applies to whoever’s sending the skutters their John Wayne Fan Club newsletters.

– The fact that the deep sleep units have “temporary stasis field” capabilities raises some questions, and I’m not even sure of the purpose of establishing that. Surely going into deep sleep for a few days would work as well. Freezing time entirely is overkill.

– They kind of spoil the reveal that Lister is in fact alive in the future by immediately saying that future Starbug has 4 passengers. Although it’s such a quick line it probably doesn’t matter, and you could reason that they picked up someone else.

– I’m still a firm believer in the “Out of Time future crew are from the same alternate timeline as the Stasis Leak future crew” theory. It just so neatly explains why the Stasis Leak future never happens in the end.

– It’s definitely a stretch that the crew became so amoral in 15 years (well, maybe not Rimmer, but the others), but the point about power and privilege corrupting you is credible enough that I just about buy it.

– The future crew are serious pricks for scoffing at the wine present-Kryten serves them. They surely must remember the desperate situation they were in when they first discovered the time drive, and either they still have the highest quality supplies on their own Starbug (so it’s hardly an inconvenience to only have the worse stuff just the once) or they’re down to the crap wine themselves (so they should be used to it).

– As well as being pricks, the future crew are also major fools. All they needed to do was send their Kryten over to inspect the time drive (or even just ask present-Kryten to look at it for them), and it would have been plain sailing. But oh no, they had to all come round for drinks for no real reason.

– The “all the time travel stuff didn’t really happen, they were still going through reality bubbles” resolution was ripe for the taking, but – as underwhelming as Tikka to Ride’s opening would end up being (spoilers for next week) – I’m glad they didn’t take it. If you’re going to give the characters (especially Rimmer) such a heroic scene, it would be a real shame to then reveal none of it actually mattered.

[Dave]

The “all the time travel stuff didn’t really happen, they were still going through reality bubbles” resolution was ripe for the taking

I think the reuse of the reality bubble effect is the real giveaway that this idea was always planned as at least a possible get-out.

[Warbodog]

I think the reuse of the reality bubble effect is the real giveaway that this idea was always planned as at least a possible get-out.

Way too subtle though, to the point that I didn’t notice it this time even as a G&T user who’s aware of all this stuff. I’m not convinced it wasn’t just a basic effect they reused for the ship getting hit.

Edit: I can’t even count.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

– It is funny how un-Red Dwarf “that pan-dimensional liquid beast from the Mogidon cluster” sounds. For lore reasons, I guess we have to assume that humanity created this creature too. Sure, whatever, I guess.

Says who? If it’s pan-dimensional, that means it exists across dimensions, which presumably includes dimensions of reality. And if there’s infinite alternate universes based on probability, which is what could be gathered from every single instance of a parallel universe appearing in the show, then statistically speaking then there’s going to be a non-zero sum of universes where life exists that didn’t originate from Earth, ergo, there are parallel universes where aliens do exist.

[Flap Jack]

Says who?

If it’s pan-dimensional, that means it exists across
dimensions, which presumably includes dimensions of reality. And if
there’s infinite alternate universes based on probability, which is what
could be gathered from every single instance of a parallel universe
appearing in the show, then statistically speaking then there’s going to
be a non-zero sum of universes where life exists that didn’t originate
from Earth, ergo, there are parallel universes where aliens do exist.

I understand where you’re coming from with this line of reasoning, but ultimately the “no aliens” rule is to ensure that our heroes do not and can not run into aliens. You can say “ah, but this alien is from another universe, so technically it’s still true that there aren’t any aliens in their universe”, but if you’re exploiting that kind of loophole then you’ve essentially still thrown out the rule.

Admittedly, “you can have any aliens you like, but call them pan-dimensional” isn’t that much more extreme than “you can have any aliens you like, but call them GELFs”, but still, the more ways you bend the rule the sillier it seems to keep it.

[International Debris]

As an aside, I think the phrase “pan-dimensional liquid beast from the mogadon cluster” is one of the funniest sounding lines in the whole show. 

[Warbodog]

[Flap Jack]

Drifting a bit into Series VII Byte One week (almost like I’m putting off watching those episodes… ), but I rewatched the Series VI deleted scenes, and a couple of things stuck out to me:

– I cannot believe that the plan for Rimmerworld was for Kryten to casually reveal in the medical scene that all of Rimmer’s brothers went mad and ended up causing accidents that killed their respective Space Corps crews, just as Rimmer did. Fair enough to drop that kind of bombshell if you’re going to base a whole episode around it, but to undermine one of Rimmer’s key insecurities just for a quick gag?! Absurd that it even got written and performed, but thank goodness they cut it.

– I had completely memory-holed that the ‘original ending’ Out of Time deleted scene contained an extra shot of Lister’s motionless and bloody face. I wonder why this wasn’t kept in? I think it would have been very effective in the episode. Don’t get me wrong, the ending is great and dramatic enough as it is, but it is kind of obvious that they’re doing stage lurches and avoiding showing their faces on camera after their characters die. Keeping the shot would have sold the situation even harder.

[Warbodog]

I’m a big fan of the Raw FX features for ambience and deleted oddities, one of the strangest being the unused Starbug cockpit projection.

They do a similar outside-in shot in Stoke Me a Clipper, but with no effort to sell that it’s from the perspective of space and not just the camera moving behind a frame on the set.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Is that Lister with an H on his head in the top one?

[International Debris]

Christ, that first one, compared with this:

[srmcd1]

I’ve always thought it would’ve been a better twist if it turned out the future crew stole Red Dwarf and deliberately left the vapour trail for their past selves to follow to the Time Drive. The only downside I can think of to this is that Rimmer would lose his hard-light drive…

[Warbodog]

I thought there was a cross-section sketch of VI Starbug’s decks in the Making Of book, but turns out there isn’t (just the studio layout, which isn’t what I’m thinking of). Does that exist somewhere, or did I just dream it?

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I think you’re thinking of the Roleplaying Game. Could be wrong but I’m pretty sure they put together their own version of Starbug’s interior based off of VI. They managed to barely squeeze in bunkroom, kitchen and a measly cargo bay into the rear compartment, but no long corridors or massive storage deck with chains dangling from the ceiling.

[Warbodog]

I flicked through the PDF years ago, so probably was that, or its reuse somewhere.

[Warbodog]

Oh, it wasn’t that. This was a side-on view with generalised deck delineation. Something at the top, then the cockpit and kitchen/midsection, a few levels of cargo and engines, I dunno. Maybe in my mind.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Oh, yeah I’ve no idea then. I’m sure somebody could tell you though, I think something like that could exist.

[Dave]

Was it this?

[Warbodog]

Could have been. That’s amazing.

[International Debris]

The weird thing is, I thought I’d seen a different version to that over the years, but that must be it.

I know it’s ultra pedantic and this is obviously a desperate attempt to try and cram all that into a small space, but the idea of putting sleeping quarters directly under the engines really amuses me.

Also, even by cramming absolutely everything in so tightly, they’ve still clearly had to skew the size of the back section, it’s significantly larger in comparison to the cockpit than on the actual model.

[Rudolph]

I’ve always assumed that the deep sleep bay/Cat and Lister’s quarters/medical unit/VR game room are all the same room, used for multiple different purposes.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

They are, aren’t they?

At the very least they’re the same set.

[Rudolph]

Does anyone else think that the pillow Lister is using in the ‘scramble’ scene is the most uncomfortable looking pillow ever? It doesn’t help that he appears to be using a grey tarpaulin as a bed sheet.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Does anyone else think that the pillow Lister is using in the ‘scramble’ scene is the most uncomfortable looking pillow ever? It doesn’t help that he appears to be using a grey tarpaulin as a bed sheet.

Welcome to science fiction where bedding technology has regressed to a wafer thing sheet and weird shaped blocks for pillows

[Ewing]

OUT OF TIME

They should’ve stuck with the ending where Rimmer saves the day in Out of Time. I just watched an edit of the episode with that ending dropped in and it works better than what we got with the cliffhanger. You guys nailed it with your first poll when you put it top 3, it’s certainly in the discussion but it’s no Queeg for me.

[Rushy]

“It’s a good sign they haven’t killed us?” – yes, Rimmer, unless you’d prefer to be killed. That line has always baffled me.

He’s expressing shock over the fact that Kryten casually expected them to be murdered. 

[Rushy]

Emohawk: I’ve warmed to it over time, to the point where I might now prefer it over the original Polymorph. But the Kinitawowi are still shit, they’ve always been shit, and all of their appearances are shit. I mainly enjoy it for Chris and Danny doing their thing. Also, “LEGGGGG IT!!!” is great. 

Rimmerworld: This one begs to be 45 minutes long. I really wanted a whole act of just Rimmer trying to live on his own with no tools, constantly talking to himself, going slightly insane. And of course to see more of Rimmerworld itself. But everything we do get works really well, and the continuity with Gunmen is quite nice. 

Out of Time: I don’t like Kryten being an asshole to “android Lister”. The fact that he basically condemns Lister to slavery on the basis that he’s an android of lower rank makes me a little uncomfortable. Kryten cleans up after them because he wants to, and the only one who should take rank seriously is Rimmer. I would have preferred it if maybe Kryten immediately assumed that Lister’s personality flaws must of course be down to his android origin, and so he starts lecturing Lister on how to be more human in an earnest but annoying way. And a dumbfounded Lister tries to follow Kryten’s understanding of what acting human is like. Sort of reversing their usual dynamic. 

The unreality pocket shenanigans are great.

I like the idea behind the future selves, but only Rimmer is interesting and only because of Barrie’s sinister performance. 

Overall, it’s okay. 

[Moonlight]

I would have preferred it if maybe Kryten immediately assumed that Lister’s personality flaws must of course be down to his android origin, and so he starts lecturing Lister on how to be more human in an earnest but annoying way.

That might be preferable if it was a whole episode about that, but it’s a brief segment meant to establish the ridiculousness of the unreality bubbles so you probably want to go a little more extreme with it.

[Warbodog]

Kryten being an asshole to Lister establishes a dark side to make his future self more credible. I always loved that they survive all these deadly enemies, then the final boss of the VI miniseries is themselves.

You could elaborate on why the Kinitawowi are so shit. I don’t really know why they would exist, but they work very well in the episode. Aren’t they also fun and pulpy?

[Dave]

[Warbodog]

I don’t really know why they would exist

Pulling myself up on this narrow perspective.

[Rushy]

You could elaborate on why the Kinitawowi are so shit. I don’t really know why they would exist, but they work very well in the episode. Aren’t they also fun and pulpy?

I just don’t find the hairy caveman shtick funny (although Bobby occasionally makes me smile with his ackhackhack)

[Jenuall]

Beggs the question what you’re going to make of similar creatures in a later series…

[Author]

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