Rimmer’s part in the radiation leak – ”It’s a question of differentiating between guilt and culpability”

[Tonguetied]

Hello there fellow Dwarfers, this is my first topic, I’m new to this site so I hope this will go down well discussion wise. Anyway I have always been intrigued as to whether as per series one continuity, Rimmer causes the cadmium 2 leak that wipes out the crew, and ergo sets up the premise. In Me squared Hollister blames Rimmer, as he says ”it was your job to fix it…” just before all hell breaks loose, when the leak bursts into the drive room. And of course in The End Holly tells Dave that it was Arnold Rimmer who failed to secure a drive plate which abruptly caused the disaster. Now that’s all and fine, this was a great gag for the show, not only do we have this anally retentive, stubborn, petty man, who is a great counter force to the slobbyness of Lister, but it was he who set up the course of the show; this gag was great, and of course his blaming of Lister who was never there to help him. However, then comes series 4, episode Justice, which is by all means a marvellous episode, but lays bare my predicament. Rimmer is accused of murdering the entire Dwarf crew, however is acquited with Kryten’s dazzlingly funny speech on Rimmer’s incompetence. Yet in his speech he questions Arnold’s place in the disaster, a man ”who
consequently blames himself for an accident for which he could not
possibly have been responsible.” Kryten suggests that is Rimmer’s own guilt ridden mind that is at fault and not his actual inability to get the job done. Why would Rimmer, a lowly 2nd technician be at the helm of a job that would put the entire crew at risk? Is this a retcon in favour of GrantNaylor trying to give the accident more depth, like the first novel Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers? Is it open to fan suggestion, or is it simpley a case of Kryten trying to bend the truth so old Iron Balls can get off scott free? I personally prefer the original idea that it is entirely his fault, which makes it seem a much funnier premise. However I would very much like to hear your views on this. P.S. I hear that John Capps or possibly John Hoare, originally had an article on this in the past, but this can be a fun addition rather than a boring rehash. Anyway that’s my topic, thank you Lady and gent dwarfs!

Topic

[Phil]

I’m pretty sure Grant Naylor still considered Rimmer at fault for the drive-plate accident…Kryten just used character-evidence to make it seem like the guilt detected by the mind-probe was caused by Rimmer’s mind compensating for his own low self-worth.

[Danny Stephenson]

> Is it open to fan suggestion, or is it simpley a case of Kryten trying to bend the truth so old Iron Balls can get off scott free?

That’s pretty much it, to me. I always understood it like that.

[John Hoare]

Yeah, here’s that previous article. But yeah, I always assumed that the continuity was revised, and Rimmer *wasn’t* guilty – but now I think that it he is still guilty, and it’s simply Kryten getting him off.

There’s one thing I *will* say, though – nowhere in Justice do any of the Dwarfers say specifically that Rimmer is guilty. Which strikes me as an odd omission. It’s left slightly ambiguous, either by accident or design.

[Jonsmad]

“Why would Rimmer, a lowly 2nd technician be at the helm of a job that would
put the entire crew at risk?”

Because like German tourists, the stupid are everywhere.

Back in Red Part 2.

RIMMER

“I’m concerned over some of the safety procedures on board, sir. There’s a
potentially lethal scenario concerning drive plates, sir.”
Obviously, anyone who mis-repaired one of these plates would have to have a
brain the size of a leprechaun’s testicle.”

I think both senarios are true in that Rimmers direct testicle brained
incompetence caused the accident. But if tried through health and safety law
style investigation it’s likely higher ranking personel in JMC would
be implicated and sustain higher penalty. Based on current uk law only,
It would depend on what risk assesment paperwork had been filled in
before about the accident area.

[Tanya Jones]

Yes, Jonsmad, I think you’re right. If the right procedures aren’t in place, any old moron can cause a fatal accident. Frankly, I think it’s odd that me, as a voluntary Fire Evacuation Officer at work, is left to recruit and assess the numbers of fire marshals in my office. If it wasn’t for the fact that my company regularly bring in Health and Safety experts to review things like that, I would feel a lot more nervous about the whole thing. However, in the event of a fatal fire, I would have to be recklessly incompetent to get prosecuted; more senior managers would have to take responsibility for the guidance given to me.

So, erm, yeah. Rimmer is directly responsible, but JMC are guilty of negligence by allowing a second technician to take on such a heavy responsibility. I actually ENJOY conversations like this. Somebody, please, shoot me in the head…

[pfm]

Well, they don’t want to bang on too much about the fact that Rimmer killed all those people. We are meant to laugh at him after all. Name me another comedy character who has that many deaths under his belt…oh yes, a certain leisure centre manager springs to mind, and what do you know he’s played by the same actor! Surely only Schwarzenegger has been responsible for more onscreen deaths!

[Tonguetied]

Yeah, thanks for the comments guys. I read something interesting in the Red Dwarf Programme Guide, third edition, on the Justice background info: ”Red Dwarf IV slight retooling of continuity continues…the number of people onboard increased etc, and Rimmer is now assumed to be not guilty of causing their deaths.” I mean if you look at the actual episode, when the justice computer states the charge as Rimmer’s failure to secure a drive plate which lead to blah blah, Rimmer does not dispute this claim; he doesn’t say, ”now hang on a minute I had no part in the technical repairing of the drive plate” No as per series one canon, Hollister blatantly puts it as ”It was your job to fix the drive plates Rimmer.” as we see in Arnolds death video. Another interesting note in my Red Dwarf Programme guide is that in several other sections, as in the crew roster it states in Rimmer’s profile: ”…and his unfortunate death, thanks in part to his own inefficient repair of a drive plate(he’d never been good at anything practical, which is why it took him five terms to make a tent peg at school.” And in the Database section of the book it states under Drive Plate: ”Obviously you’d need a brain the size of a leprechaun’s testicle etc…( as Jonsmad has reminded us) So had Rimmer been a bit more blessed with intelligence, then he might not have contributed to the leakage of Cadmium 2 that wiped out the crew.” Elsewhere under Drive Room it reads ”…It was here where Rimmer met his death, while explaining to Hollister why he’d failed to mend a Drive plate properly.” So the writers of this book either seem to be conflicting with each other over the matter, or perhaps it is a slight mislook.

[Somebody]

So, the question is… how come the mindprobe didn’t pick up the info from LISTER’S mind?

And this is an example of the 1100+ people not making sense – it’s borderline plausible if there’s only 150-odd people around, and all but a few have no technical experience. 1100+? No way Rimmer should have been doing it.

[Tonguetied]

I would like to hear Andrew’s views on this, as he is a Red Dwarf Official siter, it will be interesting to here what he thinks personally.

[Andrew]

> I would like to hear Andrew?s views on this, as he is a Red Dwarf Official siter, it will be interesting to here what he thinks personally.

Expecting anything interesting from me on this is fairly optimistic… :-)

It’s an interesting point because, yeah, it was the series of Dwarf that did the biggest re-conning. And, given that, it could be another attempt to do that same. I don’t think it is, though.

Thing is, Rob and Doug’s writing has always been…direct. They push for laughs, push for stories, but any ‘second levels’ are mostly by accident. When people say that Lister being the Last Human is intrinsic to his character, I don’t think the guys felt that way. Likewise, Rimmer’s guilt may have been viewed as important, but I don’t think the guys see it that way. It’s rarely mentioned, and when it is, it’s to get a joke out of it.

I wouldn’t see the Programme Guide as mistaken or confused, so much as cursed to be covering a series with such wanton disregard to continuity. They have to attribute the guilt to Rimmer, but also mention the potential ret-con…though I think they’ve assumed that, rather than asked the question. (They certainly took a guess on some other stuff, the spelling of Otrozone for a start…)

Thing is, though, Hollister gives Rimmer a telling off. “You can’t do sloppy work on the drive plate.” Well, maybe not – but it’s the kind of sloppy work that, apparently, can wait while disciplinary measures are taken. How come people aren’t running around, evacuating?

Because a drive plate mis-seal isn’t an emergency problem. On its own, it’s detectable, fixable.

So, either it’s the last line of defense after other things have gone wrong, or it’s something that causes a slow-burning problem that only causes disaster if undetected for hours/days. I prefer the former, given that we never see Rimmer working away from the main corridors, down among the engines – suggesting the drive plates are on crewed areas.

All of that said, it’s important to remember this: the guys weren’t fixing vending machines in the first version of The End.

In the Omnibus draft, a version of the show that you’ll see on the Bodysnatcher DVD, they’re repairing circuits. Lowly or not, they’re still doing important technical work – it was only in the desperate scramble to add jokes to the first ep that the guys were rejigged to be fiddling with vending machines.

And THAT wouldn’t have happened if a) they hadn’t wanted to do the ‘vital work’ gag at the top of the show, and b) they hadn’t had vending machines already built into the sets for use in the other shows.

Which is to say: Justice is doing the same thing, going for gags. That it illuminates the contradictions of the The End rewrite is interesting, but not especially deliberate. And the guys probably don’t much care how directly responsible Rimmer is or isn’t. Whichever’s funnier on the day will do.

[Tonguetied]

Thanks Andrew! That was an interesting comment. It would be good if Doug and Rob could give us a final say as to what they were intending, but alas I doubt they will be accessible for such a continuity based question.

[Andrew]

> That was an interesting comment. It would be good if Doug and Rob could give us a final say as to what they were intending

Well, you can always ask Rob at DJ. But, like I say, I think you’ll find their priorities were to get a laugh and a story, not to definitively state the history one way or another. It’s just not how they worked.

[Tonguetied]

Pity, I say pity.

[Tonguetied]

Anyhoo, I was wondering, it’s every Friday the updates on the Offical site are right? I noticed that in the Blackbox section under ships,spacecraft and shuttles it’s the remastered Blue Miget, rather than the old design, logically you would have both. Fans loved the original, it deserves to be there lol. Apart from that it’s always been a great site, easily accessible and great fun.Well done!

[mick]

This appears to be an actual genuinely serious thread about something actually Red Dwarf related, not only that but it seems to have broken into a relatively serious conversation.

I demand this stop immediately.

[Tonguetied]

A genuine article indeed Mick. A treat for any real Dwarfer. Relish it!

[Jason aka Smeg4Brains]

It is strange having a genuinely serious article. Most threads in this forum are about boobs, beer or Chloe Annet’s foaming twat…and that’s the way I like it.

[Tonguetied]

Get use to it lol. Red Dwarf should be at the forefront for this site my friend. At least the odd serious article, call yourself a fan lol, but seriously we need these articles to keep things fresh and intriguing.

[Tonguetied]

Not to say we can’t have those forums about ”boobs” etc, rather we should integrate the serious fan driven articles, like this one. Which shows our differing views, our insight and so on. What’s your favourite Dwarf episode Smeg4Brains?

[Jason aka Smeg4Brains]

Are you trying to tell me that Chloe Annet’s foaming twat isn’t fresh and intriguing?

Well unfortunately I don’t actually know how fresh it is, but still intriguing non the less.

[Jason aka Smeg4Brains]

> What?s your favourite Dwarf episode Smeg4Brains?

I don’t really know. I have many different favourites for many different reasons.

[Tonguetied]

Nope just trying to say, that these articles are just as entertaining. I have many favourites also, however series 1 is consistently great for me. The relationship between Rimmer and Lister is at it’s best. The show should have remained more focused on that aspect.

[Jason aka Smeg4Brains]

From series 1 my favourite is Future Echo’s, the part where Lister sees Rimmer having the conversation they are about to have, pure comedy genius.

[Ian Symes]

With all due respect, ‘toungetied’, it’s not up to any individual user of this G&T (even those of us who run it) to determine what the site “should” be about. The idea that we need your contribution to keep this site “fresh and intriguing” is unusual, and a little insulting. We like to think we host a little bit of everything on G&T – serious, silly, talking about the series, the books, things the cast have done, and things that are only vaguely connected to the show. That goes for both the main site and the forum. And don’t forget that a forum thread isn’t the same as an article.

Personally, I enjoyed the debate put forward in your initial post, and was pleased to see a piece of Dwarf mythos talked about. I hope you continue to post things of that standard, but please don’t do so under the basis that you want to change the way the balance we offer on G&T works.

Also, it’s ‘Tongue’.

[Tonguetied]

And of course, being perceptive enough with my name. Changed as you will.

[Tonguetied]

Thank you for your comment Ian it shall be noted. I did not say what the site should difinitively be run as, more that I feel, in my opinion that we should inject more Dwarf mythos into the mix for forums anyway. However I did not say we must do this, it was merely an opinion. After all we are all entitled to one. Thanks for enjoying the initial debated however.

[Tonguetied]

Oh and hey, I forgot to ask, what do you think about Rimmer and the Cadmium 2 leak Ian?

[Phil]

Ian please respond please.

[Ian Symes]

Wow, look how polite I was to Toungetied!

[Tonguetied]

Wow so you were, I’m amazed at your mellow headed temper here, certainly not the fully fledged Ian we’re use to.

[Ben Paddon]

You’re used to. Because you’re a git.

[Tonguetied]

”You?re used to. Because you?re a git.” Ho, ho my I’m so darn upset.

[Author]

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