Russell Two Davies

[Nick R]

Apparently, today there was some news about a change to Doctor Who’s production staff, in some obscure behind-the-scenes role. I don’t know if anyone else heard about it?

Topic

[Unrumble]

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

[Warbodog]

I’m never going to be so lacking in things to watch/rewatch that I’ll ever get around to 2020-22 Doctor Who, especially at this point, but I’ll pick it up from here eventually if consensus continues to favour it.

[GlenTokyo]

It was indeed like going back in time, it felt exactly like RTD Mk1 Tennant Who to me, but HD, which is good because I actually liked that.
I enjoyed the effects, they were again, like the late 2000s episodes but with a high fidelity sheen, didn’t feel too flashy or Hollywood, had some charm about them, and carried on the scifi tradition of lanky people in bug eyed rubber alien costumes.

Story was engrossing enough, nice mix of high stakes drama and fun, and I enjoyed the cast, returning and otherwise.

They’ve got me back, and I’m hopeful.

[Ian Symes]

Fun fact: the new actor playing the Doctor was the narrator of Red Dwarf: The First Three Million Years

[Dave]

Fun fact: the new actor playing the Doctor was the narrator of Red Dwarf: The First Three Million Years

I knew I recognised him from somewhere.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Fun fact: the new actor playing the Doctor was the narrator of Red Dwarf: The First Three Million Years

I knew I recognised him from somewhere.

Why does he do that bad Scottish accent on First Three Million Years?

[Jenuall]

I enjoyed it more than I was expecting, I think over the years my feelings toward RTD’s era have soured quite a bit so I went into this quite wary (I’ve also never been a huge Donna fan so that was another warning sign!) but in the end I thought that was a fun knockabout episode. Definitely agree that it didn’t feel like a special in any real way though.

Some of the messaging was a bit heavy handed, if well intentioned. But I’ll take that over the kind of fascist shit some of the media would have our airwaves reduced to any day.

There’s something slightly “cottage industry” about the production of RTD episodes that this brought back as well – when Moffat came in for series 5 it definitely felt like the style and direction of the show stepped up a notch – how it looked, how the lighting was done, how it was framed and shot etc. A lot of stuff here felt very series 1-4 where it was just a bit “stick the camera in any old place and get people to lark about in front of it” – which is all very hard to pin down on how and why it feels like that, because the episode was directed by Rachel Talalay who has done some cracking stuff in the past. Only one episode in as well, so will see what the next one looks like!

Living in Cardiff I also got to indulge in my favourite game of spotting the location as well, definitely recognised a few places which was nice!

[Unrumble]

I found it to be pretty fun and enjoyable, and I’ve never been a huge fan of Tennant’s portrayal. Indeed, I stopped watching around the end of his first series, though this was more to do with being at Uni, so basically saw little to none of the Martha/Donna years (have watched a handful of eps retrospectively), and got back on board with Matt Smith.

[Flap Jack]

Some of the messaging was a bit heavy handed, if well intentioned. But I’ll take that over the kind of fascist shit some of the media would have our airwaves reduced to any day.

I’ve seen a few people say things along these lines (an indeterminate amount of them in bad faith from a right wing reactionary perspective, it’s fair to assume), but I don’t agree personally. I can’t think of anything you could take out of the episode without weakening the characterisation or reducing the impact of the story.

Maybe just some tweaks, like instead of saying “Did you just assume the Meep’s pronouns?”, Rose could have said “How do you know the Meep is a he?”, which is more natural sounding dialogue. But I wouldn’t change anything major.

Amusingly I also saw one comment from someone saying they watched the whole episode without realising Rose was trans. One man’s heavy handed is another man’s subtle, it seems.

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

[Jenuall]

Some of the messaging was a bit heavy handed, if well intentioned. But I’ll take that over the kind of fascist shit some of the media would have our airwaves reduced to any day.
I’ve seen a few people say things along these lines (an indeterminate amount of them in bad faith from a right wing reactionary perspective, it’s fair to assume), but I don’t agree personally. I can’t think of anything you could take out of the episode without weakening the characterisation or reducing the impact of the story.
Maybe just some tweaks, like instead of saying “Did you just assume the Meep’s pronouns?”, Rose could have said “How do you know the Meep is a he?”, which is more natural sounding dialogue. But I wouldn’t change anything major.
Amusingly I also saw one comment from someone saying they watched the whole episode without realising Rose was trans. One man’s heavy handed is another man’s subtle, it seems.

For sure, and like I say I’ll happily take it as it is because the net benefit of including, addressing and involving these elements into the story and meaning of the episode far outweighs any mild frustration I have with the mechanics of how it was delivered! 

[Boy Was I Suckered… Into Using my Kidneys as a Full Stop]

Some of the messaging was a bit heavy handed, if well intentioned. But I’ll take that over the kind of fascist shit some of the media would have our airwaves reduced to any day.
I’ve seen a few people say things along these lines (an indeterminate amount of them in bad faith from a right wing reactionary perspective, it’s fair to assume), but I don’t agree personally. I can’t think of anything you could take out of the episode without weakening the characterisation or reducing the impact of the story.
Maybe just some tweaks, like instead of saying “Did you just assume the Meep’s pronouns?”, Rose could have said “How do you know the Meep is a he?”, which is more natural sounding dialogue. But I wouldn’t change anything major.
Amusingly I also saw one comment from someone saying they watched the whole episode without realising Rose was trans. One man’s heavy handed is another man’s subtle, it seems.

The left is as much full of shite as the right and they still won’t admit that left wing intellectuals and activists are not normal/average people (that mow the launch, watch association football and think that a particle accelerator is a type of hoover).

I saw this on the front line as an ALP member during the recent Indigenous Voice constutional referendum.

Leftist radicals could not stop themselves saying near a camera or a “hot” mic things like “Always was, will be, Aboriginal land”, calling modern non-indigenous Australans “settlers” (an abuse of language and history as few modern Australians can trace their ancestry back to the early British settlers), saying by rote “the majority should never decide the rights of the minority” (*no one* is objective about *themselves* – have they seen a book of memoirs?!) and “Minority rights should not be up for a public vote!” (a referendum is the *only* way the Australian Constitution can be changed).

As with the *other* loonies over on the right, it is now time to stop thinking that these people are nice, or even rational.

[Ian Symes]

And off you fuck.

[Dave]

Maybe just some tweaks, like instead of saying “Did you just assume the Meep’s pronouns?”, Rose could have said “How do you know the Meep is a he?”, which is more natural sounding dialogue. But I wouldn’t change anything major.

I took that line from Rose as being knowing and tongue-in-cheek, rather than her seriously rebuking the Doctor. Kids of that age today are very tuned into this stuff and aware of it, and will sometimes joke (good naturedly) about assuming pronouns using that exact phrase. So I didn’t really feel that it was unnatural, in fact I’ve heard girls her age in real life say the exact same thing.

And the Doctor’s reply to the Meep about also favouring the definite article felt like it was in the same spirit.

To be honest I even feel the same about the whole “let it go” line at the end, which I’ve seen a lot of complaints about – I feel like even in-universe it was meant as very jokey rather than as something pointed or sexist or as serious commentary.

I think it’s to RTD’s credit that he is familiar and comfortable enough with these ideas that he doesn’t treat them overly seriously and can balance the sincere commentary/representation aspects with a bit of levity at times. I think it reflects how people really talk about these things, and makes viewers more comfortable and receptive than they might be if he took a 100% serious approach to all this stuff.

[Dave]

And off you fuck.

[Flap Jack]

Oh wow.

That was some real “one called me mayonnaise boy” energy to go out on.

[Flap Jack]

Fair points, Dave. I didn’t consider that Rose meant it in a more tongue in cheek way. I’m just so used to “Did you just assume my gender?” as a go-to example line for transphobes to accuse trans people of being unreasonably confrontational, it can’t not sound awkward to me when delivered as legitimate dialogue.

Agreed on the “let it go” bit too.

[Dave]

Yeah, I see where you’re coming from and how you could read that into it.

It’s definitely a difficult line to tread, I think – dealing with a sensitive topic and doing it sincerely and meaningfully, but also feeling free to have some fun with it.

I think RTD is really sensitive to all the context around this stuff though, so I trust him to walk that line carefully.

For example, I saw he’d mentioned recently that the inclusion of the “deadnaming” scene was very carefully considered, as he didn’t want to add fuel to transphobic takes on the character but also felt like it was his duty to show the lived reality of what trans people have to deal with every day.

It’s one of those things that made me realise how thoughtful he is about all this stuff – and given that I think it’s easy to forgive the odd clunky line or slightly off creative decision.

[Moonlight]

And off you fuck.

[RainbowGazelle]

I really liked most of the episode. Meep was great, Tennant was great, Tate was great. I must admit to being a little confused by the resolution though. The whole episode is brilliant for inclusion of all people. Disabled, trans, cis, religious, etc. Everyone. It goes out of its way to be inclusive. And that’s great! That’s absolutely what we should be doing. It just therefore confused me a bit that the ending message seemed to be, “lol male-presenting people are stoopeed and lesser than us superior women who can let go.” Unless I’m completely misunderstanding, it was a bit odd for an episode to spend its entire runtime saying everyone is equal, to then imply women are better at the end.

Apart from that, I loved it. It’s great to have David Tennant and Catherine Tate back for a little bit!

[tombow]

I watched a couple of YT videos about the ep, just background stuff talking about the original comic etc, and now I’m getting all these anti trans/anti “woke” rant video recommendations with Rose Noble Photoshopped in the thumbnails to look hyper masculine and hulking.

[tombow]

I’ve been thinking… they should have mined the comics before now. Like BBC should have had a team from day one combing every classic comic run for good stories.to adapt.

[Dave]

It just therefore confused me a bit that the ending message seemed to be, “lol male-presenting people are stoopeed and lesser than us superior women who can let go.” Unless I’m completely misunderstanding, it was a bit odd for an episode to spend its entire runtime saying everyone is equal, to then imply women are better at the end.

I think it was just a cheeky joke, and not meant to be taken as seriously as lots of people seem to have taken it.

[RainbowGazelle]

It just therefore confused me a bit that the ending message seemed to be, “lol male-presenting people are stoopeed and lesser than us superior women who can let go.” Unless I’m completely misunderstanding, it was a bit odd for an episode to spend its entire runtime saying everyone is equal, to then imply women are better at the end.
I think it was just a cheeky joke, and not meant to be taken as seriously as lots of people seem to have taken it.

Oh I absolutely believe it was. It just stuck out, given the context of the wider episode. I’m not annoyed by it at all. Just seemed odd.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I am, though not for the reasons everyone else is. I just think it was anticlimactic as a resolution to a story element set up 14 years earlier.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Of course they could have chained Cathrine Tate limbs pulled in opposite directions and ripped her apart to get a visual of what it’s like for her mind to explode remembering who the Doctor  … or they could find a way to move past it so we get some new stories. 

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

[Paul Muller]

I liked it. 

It looked nice, the performances were all pretty solid, there was some fun, soapy RTD dialogue peppered about and some nice practical FX stuff. It was also about as subtle as a brick to the face and quite hamfisted in places, but ultimately you’d have to be a bit of a prick to object to the overall message.

Now, how do we convince Disney to bung some of their money at Red Dwarf? 

[Ben Saunders]

There’s the odd thing you could critique about The Star Beast, but the fact that the show actually has a pulse again and is generally exciting and full of life once more means I don’t really care to complain, really. Maybe in coming months and years things will start to bother me more but I had a big smile on my face for most of the episode. Sonic shields are rather convenient/OP, the destruction of the streets just being undone is rather convenient, the whole solution to the meta-crisis is rather convenient etc. Donna breaks the Who record for fastest undone death, I imagine. But this is coming from the man who gave us “everybody holds hands and prays to the Doctor” as the resolution to series 3. So it’s par for the course.

Rachel Talaylay knows how to point cameras at Dr Who. The music is very Murray, the dialogue is very RTD. It’s like a nice bowl of your mum’s soup.

I do agree that it didn’t feel like a special, or a “Doctor’s first episode”, more just a regular series opener. Post-regeneration weirdness is completely absent, but it’s been rightly pointed out that if you only have three episodes with Tennant you probably don’t want to waste your time going through certain expected motions.

[RainbowGazelle]

Post-regeneration weirdness is completely absent, but it’s been rightly pointed out that if you only have three episodes with Tennant you probably don’t want to waste your time going through certain expected motions.

Maybe they covered that in the Liberation of the Dalek comic strip that’s been in Doctor Who Magazine recently? It’s meant to be 14’s first adventure.

[Ian Symes]

I imagine in years to come, there’ll be a thousand comics, books and audios set between The Power of the Doctor and The Star Beast. We’ve already got Liberation of the Daleks and the CiN special.

[Unrumble]

There are probably dozens of fanfics/BF audios already in the works where 10ant meets 14ant.

[Ridley]

Now, how do we convince Disney to bung some of their money at Red Dwarf? 

As an aside, it was nice finishing Star Beast on the iPlayer and Red Dwarf being the only non-Doctor Who show offered in the list of what to watch next.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Now, how do we convince Disney to bung some of their money at Red Dwarf? 

As an aside, it was nice finishing Star Beast on the iPlayer and Red Dwarf being the only non-Doctor Who show offered in the list of what to watch next.

Did it recommend the episode Star Knot?

[Dave]

MUTTON VINDALOO BEAST

Lister meets a lovely curry made from Meep The Sheep, and immediately warms to it – only for the exotic meal to reveal itself as a surprise villain by the end of the episode. Meanwhile, another character grapples with the difficulties of transitioning to a new identity.

[RainbowGazelle]

MUTTON VINDALOO BEAST
Lister meets a lovely curry made from Meep The Sheep, and immediately warms to it – only for the exotic meal to reveal itself as a surprise villain by the end of the episode. Meanwhile, another character grapples with the difficulties of transitioning to a new identity.

Also starring new cute Red Dwarf mascot, Smeg The BEGG.

[RunawayTrain]

Also starring new cute Red Dwarf mascot, Smeg The BEGG.

I’m Smeg the BEGG diddle-iddle-um,

With an extra leg diddle-iddle-um …

(I’m so sorry)

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

[Warbodog]

Good to see day-for-night tinting was alive and well in 1993, like it was still the silent film era.

[Dave]

day-for-night tinting

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

I saw them do it in one of the Jolie Tomb Raider films and in fairness they did shoot it as the sun was setting, but it’s still very obvious that it’s sunlight through a filter, even if it’s a considerably more convincing filter than most previous day-for-night shots

[Ben Saunders]

[extremely mild spoiler for Wild Blue Yonder]

some real Rimmer Monster vibes from tonight’s villain(s)

[Flap Jack]

Was quite surprised when The Doctor and Donna defeated them by asking them if they had a pen and then shooting them in the face while they were distracted.

[Formica]

It honestly felt more Legion to me.

[Flap Jack]

Was quite surprised when The Doctor and Donna defeated them by hitting each other over the head until they were both unconscious.

[Dave]

It honestly felt more Vic and Bob to me.

[Unrumble]

[Asclepius]

Just wanted to share this.

I have an 11 yr old (likes New Who, doesn’t like to admit it) and an 8 yr old (lives and breathes all Who).

Vague spoilers…

Tonight…fucking hell. That was a classic. And the kids’ reactions? It was as much of a privilege to watch that as it was the episode itself. When the Horror started they were howling in fear…and when the absurdity kicked in they were laughing in relieved hysterics. And then back to the horror again. Faces hiding in cushions.

And tonight, though the elder doesnt like the younger…”Can he sleep in my bed; because I’m going to have nightmares?” He agrees. But all it takes is a monotone “My arms are too long” and they’re both off again. And then, brilliantly, the younger one bridges backwards, hands on the floor, and fucking scuttled at her and she’s screaming and it’s amazing.

And Dr. Who was amazing. And how much they loved it was amazing.

Spoiler end.

That was the 90 minute highlight of a shitty day. Things are rarely this good, but that was worth a lot.

[Formica]

And tonight, though the elder doesnt like the younger…”Can he sleep in my bed; because I’m going to have nightmares?”

I was at a young enough age when I first watched some Doctor Who that I couldn’t sleep a wink once when staying at my aunt’s house because of a blue glow coming from around the corner (thanks to the Slitheen episodes)

[Author]

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