Home › Forums › Ganymede & Titan Forum › Torchwood Using Their Own Brig… Search for: This topic has 176 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by si. Scroll to bottom Viewing 50 posts - 101 through 150 (of 177 total) 1 2 3 4 Author Posts July 10, 2009 at 8:10 pm #101013 JamesTCParticipant Fuck, I was watching last nights Mitchel and Web look and explaining on IMDB why Red Dwarf too a long break between Series VIII and BtE and now I will have to wait an hour to watch Torchwood when it gets on Iplayer, ahh well, atleast they have a Torchwood Declassified on tonight too. July 10, 2009 at 8:37 pm #101016 CarlitoParticipant This is the first Torchwood I’ve ever seen (don’t watch Doctor Who either). Really enjoying it though. I’m surprised! July 10, 2009 at 9:13 pm #101018 JamesTCParticipant Turns out Declassified isn’t on, oh. July 10, 2009 at 9:19 pm #101019 Seb PatrickKeymaster >Guess who just got Children of Earth through the post on DVD from preorder, even though it?s not out til next week? Hmmm… I’d say everyone on the internet, judging by the number of people I’ve seen smugly mention it as if they were the only ones ;-) July 10, 2009 at 9:22 pm #101020 siParticipant What the Christing arse was that all about? Are we getting more? Or has Russell the T decided he’s leaving the Whoniverse altogether? They can’t leave it at that… July 10, 2009 at 9:31 pm #101021 ChrisMParticipant Hmmm. The resolution didn’t make much sense to me. I think I know what they were going for, but… it just seemed a stretch too far. Spoiler ahead if you’re watching the second showing (I’ll keep it vague:) I.e. it was comparable to turning an amp into a microphone if that makes sense. Science doesn’t really work that way. And then there’s the interface/technology compatibility, etc. etc. I suppose really it’s best to see it as a character piece. That Jack is still willing to make the hard decisions (amongst other things). In that way it worked well. Overall a success though I think. To borrow a cliche, I think the journey was better than the destination though, but it wasn’t really spoilt for that. July 10, 2009 at 9:54 pm #101022 siParticipant After last night’s episode, me and my sister both joined a Facebook group called ‘RIP Ianto Jones’. After tonight’s episode, the group (now called ‘RIP Ianto Jones and Torchwood’) is full of people cancelling their DVDs, not watching anything by Russell T Davies EVUR AGEN!!! (including the remaining Who eps(!?!)) and generally calling for his head. All this despite the fact there’s a thread on there discussing a fourth series, going on a quote from RTD (http://news.whoviannet.co.uk/2009/06/fourth-series-of-torchwood-ready-to-go). My sister and I have left this group… July 10, 2009 at 9:59 pm #101023 siParticipant was, indeed, a terrible ending Thanks a lot RTD How could you ruin this for a world of devoted fans Evil Evil Evil Hate them all Here is a typical example (from a university student, no less) July 10, 2009 at 10:17 pm #101024 siParticipant Torchwood: Children of Earth. A bit bleak, I’ll grant you, but d’you know something? I think I enjoyed that more than Red Dwarf: Back to Earth. July 10, 2009 at 10:41 pm #101027 JamesTCParticipant Day 5 still not up on Iplayer. I mean RTD has in the past done a great lead up but a terrible finale, ‘Last of the Time Lords’ or ‘Gollum goes the Circus’ as I prefer to call it as an example, ‘Utopia’ was bloody brilliant, ‘Sound of Drums’ was ok, ‘Gollum goes the Circus’ was poor. Still I thought ‘Journeys End’ was a great finale (though I thought the lead up wasn’t that good with ‘The Stolen Earth’, funny that). July 10, 2009 at 10:42 pm #101028 JamesTCParticipant Oh it is up. July 10, 2009 at 11:42 pm #101031 JamesTCParticipant Shame that the show has to end (if it infact does). I thought while the episode was not the best of the 5 it had the best scene and that was Frobisher’s last, just the pause between the last gun shot, so brilliant. July 10, 2009 at 11:44 pm #101032 Pete Part ThreeParticipant Wow, that never really hit fifth gear. What a disappointment that it just couldn’t meet the potential of the first four episodes. Was it too much too ask that the 456 be dealt with in a smart way, rather than relying on techobabble (essentially reversing the polarity)? I expected more than a Doctor Who style cop-out, even if they did try and excuse it with some of the darkest and disturbing imagery possible. Even Jack Bauer draws the line at hurting kids! Overall a success, but if this were a movie, I’ve be pretty pissed off with the final act. I’m not sure where Torchwood goes from here. July 10, 2009 at 11:51 pm #101033 JamesTCParticipant Now you see I thought that was a better ending than the other New Who endings, I mean what do we have, Magic Rose makes the bad pepper pots go away with bright eyes, then we had a hoover suck the Daleks, then we had everybody pray for the Doctor at the exact same time all around the world which changed the Doctor from Gollum into an angel, then we had a few switched flipped which led to the comedy moment of the Daleks being kicked about (which I actully thought was rather funny no matter how much it detracted from the tention previously established) but here we had something like ‘Jouneys End’ but better thought through, I mean they had hints to the end with the death of Clem, I can’t see a better ending to the dilemma, that is outside the Doctor turning up and in a comedy moment just flashing his sonic screwdriver and scaring them all away, though it wouldn’t really have kept up the drama would it? July 11, 2009 at 12:16 am #101035 Pete Part ThreeParticipant Depends if you judge the ending on just the method to defeat the big bad or giving you a genuinely satisfying ending for the characters and themes. I think CoE Ep5 failed on both counts. >Magic Rose makes the bad pepper pots go away with bright eyes I thought that was a great ending and the regeneration was fantastic. That episode was preceded by Bad Wolf, which I thought was atrocious so I can’t say my expectations were high. Anne Droid? Fuck off. >then we had a hoover suck the Daleks Awful, since they’d only been introduced into the story about 40 minutes prior to this. But the ending itself with the “writing-out” of Rose was fine. Spoiled it all by having Catherine Tate turn up to destroy the mood though. >then we had everybody pray for the Doctor at the exact same time all around the world which changed the Doctor from Gollum into an angel Terrible. But I didn’t like either of the final two episodes of Season Three. After Utopia (which was great) I expected something considerably less camp. >then we had a few switched flipped which led to the comedy moment of the Daleks being kicked about I loved Journey’s End. It’s the only finale that totally worked for me. >I can?t see a better ending to the dilemma, that is outside the Doctor turning up and in a comedy moment just flashing his sonic screwdriver and scaring them all away, though it wouldn?t really have kept up the drama would it? I don’t see how Jack pressing a few buttons is all that different. It’s almost as if RTD thought “If I kill a kid, it won’t look like I’m having a cop-out”. July 11, 2009 at 12:22 am #101036 JamesTCParticipant >I don?t see how Jack pressing a few buttons is all that different. It?s almost as if RTD thought ?If I kill a kid?, it won?t look like I?m doing a cop-out. Well sort of, yes but really you could say the same for most endings, ‘Parting of the Ways’ had the Eccleston Doctor being killed to not make is look like a cop-out (or Lynda), ‘Doomsday’ had Rose “dying”, ‘Last of the Time Lords’ had the Master “dying” and ‘Journeys End’ had Donna “dying”. >>then we had a few switched flipped which led to the comedy moment of the Daleks being kicked about >I loved Journey?s End. It?s the only finale that totally worked for me. Don’t get me wrong, I agree it was the only finale which really worked for me too, the switched being pressed was a bit out of the blue but thinking about how Davros works it sort of makes sense that he would make it so he could have a cop-out against the Daleks, I mean he hasn’t had the best history with the Daleks, rebelling against him in half of his stories and in the others attacking his gold and white Daleks. July 11, 2009 at 2:45 am #101037 RidleyParticipant Anne Droid? Fuck off. “I’d rather make out with my Monroe-bot.” —– This is the first Torchwood I?ve ever seen (don?t watch Doctor Who either). That’s why, I think, The Doctor shouldn’t be mentioned in Torchwood. The way he has been, at least. July 11, 2009 at 7:41 am #101038 Tarka DalParticipant > That Jack is still willing to make the hard decisions (amongst other things). In that way it worked well Well it was still a pretty enjoyable ending even if the ending wasn’t great. Having Peter Capaldi shoot his own kids becuase he felt there was no other option didn’t work for me because about a year ago I was sat in a cinema watching the end of Frank Darabont’s. I hope RTD wasn’t. As for Jack’s sacrifice of his own grandson. I’m not sure how I feel about that or what to make of it. They spent the last two episodes indicating that sacrificing 10% of kids to save millions more was wrong. Implicity putting across that it wasn’t a debate about numbers, but about morals. Heck even sacrificing one kid… ah. So Torchwood’s Doctor has massive flaws, well no Torchwood’s Doctor is a child-killer (Twice over at least). Which is a massively dark twist really. Can we ever view Jack in a positive way after that? I actually think the next chapter of Jack is perfect for the world of Torchwood, what the character’s not so perfect for now is popping up in a Who finale as comedy relief. I wondered before this final episode if they were slowly establishing Jack as a potential supervillian for a future series of Who. Perhaps that wouldn’t make sense as his darker side only really shows in Torchwood. Maybe then that’s the angle that they would take with any series 4 of Torchwood. Some new heroes following in the footsteps of the legendary Harkness trying to track him down and save his soul. July 11, 2009 at 7:58 am #101039 Tarka DalParticipant > Magic Rose makes the bad pepper pots go away with bright eyes, Nice line, but don’t be silly eh. July 11, 2009 at 10:23 am #101046 siParticipant What’s next for Jack? I wouldn’t rule out seeing him in Doctor Who regeneration-time, and something happening to make him see that he’s needed back down Cardiff way, just to offer some kind of protection. Or something. July 11, 2009 at 10:26 am #101047 DaveParticipant >or ?Gollum goes the Circus? as I prefer to call it as an example Like a fucking broken record. July 11, 2009 at 10:35 am #101049 Tarka DalParticipant You’re probably right. I’m just not sure I can enjoy Jack the same way knowing that he’s current character is prepared to pulp his own grandson, unless I’m totally missing what actually happened at the end there. Also it reminded of this: July 11, 2009 at 10:46 am #101050 JamesTCParticipant So wait, you think that 10% of the children of earth should die in favour of Jack’s grandson, Jack has probably seen ‘Wrath of Khan’, “The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few”. The Doctor has let people die to save more people or to save the time line. July 11, 2009 at 11:17 am #101052 siParticipant Incidentally, my DVD didn’t turn up today. Play, you disappoint me! Those who have got it, where’d you order it from? July 11, 2009 at 11:18 am #101051 Tarka DalParticipant ?The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few? Er… except by that logic handing over the 10% to save everyone else is fine too. Why is the life of Jack’s grandson in anyway more dispensable than that of the 10,000 kids? It’s not about numbers or de-humanising phrases such as “acceptable losses”. If you’re prepared to murder one life then the fundemental of essence of whether it’s worth living at all comes into play, isn’t it? The options were not simply 10% or everyone or Jack’s grandson v 10%. The question is de-humanising yourself in order to survive versus dieing with your beliefs intact. July 11, 2009 at 12:23 pm #101055 littlesmeggerParticipant I ordered mine from DVD.co.uk who are saying “In Stock” rather than “Pre-Order” as it should. I got mine Friday morning, when it’s not out until next week. :P And regarding people commenting on Jack’s supposed new character, he’s far from different. He did what he had to do to save millions, and now he’s tortured for eternity as a result. Why do you think he’s running away?! It amuses me on the forums about how the ending was to negative. What were they expecting Jack to do. Kill a family member, hop into a new convertible and drive off with Gwen into the sunset? *rolls eyes* July 11, 2009 at 1:57 pm #101057 ChrisMParticipant I found Jack’s willingness to sacrifice his grandson believable (although I agree with Karl’s comments concerning the morality.) Jack was willing to sacrifice 12 in the 60s after all. Jack himself stated his rationale when he confronted the ambassador. “Back then noone knew.” (Or words to that affect.) The science didn’t make much sense though. Machine sends out signal, which somehow makes the kid produce a signal, which somehow is picked up by the other kids (who are unharmed) who broadcast it further, which somehow hurts, possibly destroys the alien ambassador miles away. Wwhy not just send it back directly via the machine without the child? They established in episode one that they can communicate through them (albeit the aliens won’t answer.) Also the way they worked out that the signal was harmful to the aliens didn’t make sense. I understand the aliens killed Clem presumably because they knew he could be utilized via the reversal thing, in the same way Jack’s granson was used. But how did Jack (etc) know which particular frequency of signal to use? Or to put it another way, why would the same level that killed Clem work on the aliens? I suppose the fact that they’re connected via that frequency could be rationale enough, but it still seems a major plot leap to me. Also what’s stopping the rest of the aliens sending down a virus? Were they killed too? Who beamed up the ambassador? Was it automated on death? I’m not sure what other resolution the writers could have come up with though. July 11, 2009 at 2:06 pm #101059 Tarka DalParticipant Actually biggest question mark about the whole thing for me was the way everyone in the world seemed to know what had happened when Jack reversed the signal. In wales Gwen and the kids were running away from the soldiers. Suddenly all the kids start doing a wierd screechy howl. Next time you see them Gwen is hugging the little girl and full of smiles. Erm… so all the soldiers just instantly decided to stop collecting kids then? July 11, 2009 at 2:28 pm #101060 Pete Part ThreeParticipant >I?m not sure what other resolution the writers could have come up with though. But that shouldn’t be an excuse. If RTD and the other have written themselves into a corner, that’s their own fault. A bit of tinkering to the story could have saved us from a rather hokey conclusion. >Erm? so all the soldiers just instantly decided to stop collecting kids then? That was incredibly lame and poorly thought-out. July 11, 2009 at 3:39 pm #101062 siParticipant The latest BT ad’s just been on, and my mum has just pointed out that the woman playing Kris Marshall’s mum played Bridget Spears in Children of Earth. She looks a little happier here. July 11, 2009 at 4:31 pm #101063 CarlitoParticipant > Actually biggest question mark about the whole thing for me was the way everyone in the world seemed to know what had happened when Jack reversed the signal. In wales Gwen and the kids were running away from the soldiers. Suddenly all the kids start doing a wierd screechy howl. Next time you see them Gwen is hugging the little girl and full of smiles. Erm? so all the soldiers just instantly decided to stop collecting kids then? That was my big gripe about the episode too. Big continuity error in my view. Also, the writer makes Wales seem like a country of blue collar ruffians. Nobody I’ve ever known from Cardiff speaks like any of those characters. I could *maybe* give him Swansea or the valleys (with the amp turned up) but not Cardiff. July 13, 2009 at 11:02 am #101086 J_SpacedParticipant I used to really obssess over plot holes and continuity and all that “if it were real they wouldn’t do that…” nonsense. I had to drop it because it was affecting my enjoyment of TV shows. That’s not lowering standards, it’s just being realistic. There are major problems like: if the aliens could do all they could with the children, why bother with a government middle-man, why not just round them up? Why build a habitation cage for a creature that can’t survive our atmosphere and not include some sort of life-threatening safety device? Like an opening valve? Why didn’t John Frobisher hide his children somewhere? Why haven’t the 456 heard of Spacesuits? For the non-oxygen breathing alien who fancies getting out and about. The thing is, these should be secondary considerations. It’s exactly the same problem Christopher H Bidmead has with writing fiction. So wrapped up in the how, he doesn’t write a decent story about “why”, which is, for me, the real positive side of these new Doctor Who and Torchwood stories. (See if you can find his DWM interview from a couple of months ago. Brilliantly demonstrative of why he shouldn’t write fiction.) Everything had a theme, or a point that was being got across. Even the working-class stereotypes of Ianto’s family were there to address why it’s not a good thing to sacrifice even the “failing” parts of society. So what if they don’t “ring true”? It’s all about the theme, the emotion. The Macguffin ending was very much: “mumble-mumble-technobabble, but will it work? It might!” But it wasn’t there to be a clever bit of science, it was to ask: could Jack kill his grandson? Could he make himself as bad as the people he’s been fighting? Sure they tacked the technical explanation on in the last five minutes, but the theme, the layering of the ideas, building up to that solution wasn’t rushed or tacked on and was executed very well. I think it’s awesome that Jack is now definitely a flawed hero. It makes him a lot more human and more believable. Running away is a perfectly understandable, if cowardly, response to what he did. July 13, 2009 at 1:03 pm #101087 siParticipant RTD says some interesting stuff on the Declassified extra on the DVD – stuff like that, originally, Steven didn’t die, for example. It’s a shame the DVD hasn’t more extras, mind. A commentary would have been nice. July 13, 2009 at 1:53 pm #101090 ChrisMParticipant The thing is, these should be secondary considerations. It?s exactly the same problem Christopher H Bidmead has with writing fiction. So wrapped up in the how, he doesn?t write a decent story about ?why?, which is, for me, the real positive side of these new Doctor Who and Torchwood stories. As far as the ‘how’ is concerned, I agree we don’t need to know absolutely everything. For example I accept that the aliens didn’t just port up the kids. Teleportation is likely a rather precise operation to pull off, and it’s easier to get lots of kids delivered to one destination than targetting lots of places. Also from a long term perspective, it makes sense from the 456’s point of view that they benefit more by grabbing a portion now and again rather than just aggressively abducting all they want. Much in the same way that gangsters running a protection racket benefit more from ‘acquiring’ their cut of a bars income on a regular basis when they could just balaclava up and grab what they want. Besides, if the aggressively just abduct children, next time they meet humanity could be waiting and advanced to a level that would constitute a threat to them. And it works better for them psychologically. Actually the aliens’ treatment of humanity reminds me somewhat of ‘The Shining Wire’ chapter in Watership Down*. I.e. leave us hopping around mostly safe in our own lives and we provide a safe resource for the commodities we require. Except our particular warren isn’t gaining any advantages from the powers that be. Just the better of two evils. The main problem for me wasn’t the reason for the aliens’ decisions. More the massive leap of logic on Jack and co’s part (death of Clem by signal somehow means the signal is damaging to the 456.), and somehow pulling ‘child interface’ technology out of nowhere. And all the things I listed in previous posts… That being said, I agree, as a character piece and a discussion of ethics, Children of Earth worked very well. It was certainly good telly and probably the best we’ve had from Torchwood. *If you’ve never read Watership Down I’d highly recommend it. If you think it’s just a kids’ book about bunnies, you’re very wrong! July 13, 2009 at 3:25 pm #101093 J_SpacedParticipant The main problem for me wasn?t the reason for the aliens? decisions. More the massive leap of logic on Jack and co?s part (death of Clem by signal somehow means the signal is damaging to the 456.), and somehow pulling ?child interface? technology out of nowhere. And all the things I listed in previous posts? Yeah, it did feel like they’d run out of time so had to smash in an explanation as quickly as possible. But then if they’d actually set it all out we probably wouldn’t have understood it anyway! Besides, you never build a macguffin when you’ve got two-days to go till your deadline. They always happen in the last two mintues. They needed to kill Clem because he posed a threat that no-one until now had even thought of. Then it turns out that killing Clem pointed Jack in the direction required to kill the 456. A little bit Deus Ex Machina, I suppose but it’s not as bad as the murder mystery where the final clue that unfolds everything is something the audience has neither seen or heard until the final scenes (Poirot, I’m looking at you now). I think, had this been a toned-down Doctor Who story, Clem would have deliberately chosen to stand on the dais. The Doctor would have yelled lots of things through the glass and Clem would die, nobly destroying the 456. Taking the heroism out of the ending was one of the best ideas they ever had and, for me, was a really satisfyingly bleak ending that had some truth to it: you don’t really get heroes, and sometimes people get caught up in the gears of the world and squished. Everyone else gets on with their lives. Edit: Oh yeah, I also totally agree with your assessment of the 456 as basically gangsters running protection rackets. Makes you wonder where the 456 are on the Shadow Proclamation’s lists? More importantly: I still can’t decide if the government assassin lady is sexy or not. July 13, 2009 at 4:24 pm #101096 Seb PatrickKeymaster >More importantly: I still can?t decide if the government assassin lady is sexy or not. She was incredibly sexy in Peep Show, if that helps. July 13, 2009 at 4:25 pm #101097 Seb PatrickKeymaster Also, the writer makes Wales seem like a country of blue collar ruffians. Nobody I?ve ever known from Cardiff speaks like any of those characters. I could *maybe* give him Swansea or the valleys (with the amp turned up) but not Cardiff. Yeah man, next time they should get a real Welshman to write it. July 13, 2009 at 7:56 pm #101102 ChrisMParticipant >She was incredibly sexy in Peep Show, if that helps. Hmm. I just had a peep on the net and apparently she’s had small roles in AvP and Resident Evil too. Oh, and the 10th Kingdom and The Colour of Magic. I can’t place her in any of these (Edit- although I haven’t seen The Colour of Magic. Silly me.), yet her face seems familiar… Oh, and Dead Set. Actually I think I remember her in that. She was the shirty woman that girl’s boyfriend* met up with wasn’t she? And apparently she was Charlie Brooker’s ex. According to wiki anyway. *Heh. How vague is that? July 13, 2009 at 10:56 pm #101108 CarlitoParticipant > Yeah man, next time they should get a real Welshman to write it. It’s not the Wales I recognise, having lived in the same area my whole life. July 14, 2009 at 1:29 am #101112 Ben PaddonParticipant And the England painted by a number of television programs isn’t the England I grew up in. July 14, 2009 at 1:34 am #101116 CarlitoParticipant Doesn’t make it right. July 14, 2009 at 2:16 am #101118 Ben PaddonParticipant The thing is, there are “rough” estates in Wales like that one. I know. I’ve been to one. July 14, 2009 at 2:23 am #101119 CarlitoParticipant I know. Of course there are. But the characters just don’t ring true. It’s no big deal. I still enjoyed it, and stereotypes are rife in television. Easily accessible I guess. July 14, 2009 at 8:48 am #101125 J_SpacedParticipant Hey Carl, are you actually saying it wasn’t general ENOUGH in order to accomodate your perception of the area you lived in? It might just be representative of, I don’t know, just that family? July 14, 2009 at 6:27 pm #101132 Ben PaddonParticipant Don’t be ridiculous, J. As we all know, if you see one family on a television program they have to be representative of everybody from that particular country. July 14, 2009 at 6:57 pm #101135 siParticipant John Barrowman’s latest role: A little different from Captain Jack… July 14, 2009 at 7:12 pm #101137 Ben PaddonParticipant That’s a promo still from Torchwood series 2, you wally. July 14, 2009 at 7:12 pm #101138 ChrisMParticipant Hellooooo nurse! July 14, 2009 at 7:31 pm #101139 CarlitoParticipant > Hey Carl, are you actually saying it wasn?t general ENOUGH in order to accomodate your perception of the area you lived in? It might just be representative of, I don?t know, just that family? Live in. And I’m talking about ALL the Welsh characters, not just one family. July 14, 2009 at 8:19 pm #101141 AndrewParticipant ALL the Welsh characters?! Not one bartender, cafe customer, bus driver or receptionist? Not one of them works as a credible resident of Wales? Don’t be so bloody ridiculous. Author Posts Viewing 50 posts - 101 through 150 (of 177 total) 1 2 3 4 Scroll to top • Scroll to Recent Forum Posts You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Log In Username: Password: Keep me signed in Log In