Unanswered Questions

[Dave]

Who took the picture of young-Rimmer’s dorm room that he uses to go back in time, in Timeslides? And how is adult-Rmmer in possession of it in the future?

The more I think about this the more it bothers me.

Topic

[Hamish]

I would always assume pre-VI that Rimmer’s program is running from a computer on Red Dwarf considering that’s a plot point in Thanks for the Memory,

Yeah, but the introduction of the Light Bee already kind of confuses all that so.

[Technopeasant]

It is also how it works during the Marooned adaptation in Better Than Life, with Rimmer reappearing back on Red Dwarf after the power down.

One idea that occurred to me is that Rimmer is supposed to be an exact simulation of a human being, so if he encounters hallucinogenic ink, the simulation will damn well make him hallucinate. Which yes implies he can still get high from inhaling. I mean, if he can smell camphor and Lister’s moon boots then…

On a related note, we can be sure that Holly isn’t localized on Starbug given she vanishes in Demons & Angels and for good in VI.

[Flap Jack]

The problem with assuming that Holly or Rimmer is being remotely run from Red Dwarf is that sometimes they get so separated from Red Dwarf it becomes implausible. Like in Backwards, Marooned or Meltdown. And in Demons & Angels Red Dwarf gets outright destroyed and Rimmer is fine (with some battery issues, but he should have been gone immediately).

In Backwards in particular, Holly goes with Rimmer and Kryten to Backworld, but clearly isn’t able to update the version of Holly on Red Dwarf (assuming there is one) with news of what happened.

[Dave]

I think of it as there being a proximity within which Holly can have multiple versions of themself running simultaneously, with them all centrally updating – basically within Red Dwarf itself I guess.

Then for outside trips there’s a mobile version that you can take with you on Starbug or a wristwatch or whatever, but they operate separately and don’t sync with the ship’s central Holly system until they get back.

[Technopeasant]

If you can fit sentient AI in a wristwatch or light bee it definitely makes it odd they can only run one hologram.

[Technopeasant]

Does Lister actually have the Polymorph posing as Rimmer’s mom?

Kinda hypocritical to judge the Cat then.

[Flap Jack]

Does Lister actually have the Polymorph posing as Rimmer’s mom?

Kinda hypocritical to judge the Cat then.

I’ve always thought not. In the scene in question, Lister is in the same position and level of dress as when we last saw him, and we see him react to Jenny’s appearance beside him right before the others come back in. The polymorph just snuggled up to him while disguised as Rimmer’s mum to make Rimmer angry, and Lister rolled with it because having his fear removed turned him into an overly mean and confrontational arsehole (for some reason).

Although even if he did, it’s not necessarily hypocritical because Lister was not in his right mind, while Cat was his normal self in Can of Worms.

[Technopeasant]

[Warbodog]

[Flap Jack]

Rimmer knows there’s an emotion-manipulating shapeshifter on board, yet when someone who looks like his mum inexplicably appears and says she shagged Lister, he’s like “yep, that must be my real mother. A polymorph has higher standards than that”.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Rimmer, being a simulation, is just responding as if it were real

Also, Lister confirming is probably pisses him off most. It’s Lister saying, yeah, I absolutely would sleep with your mum! Add to to the pent up anger he likely has over his mums constant unfaithful exploits

[Unrumble]

Edit: just seen Warbodog did it better this morning 

[loadoftottnumb]

They do acknowledge it to be fair, Holly says ‘it’s not your mum it’s the Polymorph’ and Rimmer tries to ignore it and stay calm, only being triggered by Alphabetty Spaghetti for some reason. 

[Technopeasant]

[Dave]

Why would Legion serve the crew a complicated Mimosian banquet that he must be aware they don’t know how to eat properly? Just to fuck with them?

[RainbowGazelle]

To treat them? Legion is back in existence at last and wants the best meal he can serve. And maybe also a tiny bit to fuck with them.

[Jenuall]

Now that’s wrinkling my brain – I was watching Legion yesterday and literally thinking of posting that very same question!

It does feel like he’s doing it to be a dick!

As he says, the whole is exponentially more than the sum of its parts so he takes on their worst aspects as well as their best and that includes how much they like to piss each other off and wind each other up.

I was also thinking about how much of Legion is “just” the combination of those minds that create him and how much of an individual he also is. We know he isn’t literally nothing when nobody is there (despite claiming this to be the case) – he became a “mindless essence” so there is still some degree of existence to him solo, in which case how much personality does that “solo Legion” have, and does that retain any control or influence when he becomes enhanced by others? Was his bitterness at being alone so long being played out in wanting to dick with the Dwarfers when they arrived?

Did that part of him that was HIM become bitter during his original tenure with Heidegger etc. did he resent them dying and diminishing him, perhaps he killed them in the first place because lets face it, on the evidence we’ve been presented he’s a bit unhinged.

I was also wondering about why, if he had access to so much genius that developed him as the “collective intelligence”, created all those masterpieces of art, presumably developed the on site holo complex, the hard-light drive etc. it seems a bit weird that he never had the time to create something that allowed him to persist beyond the lifetime of his creators.

---

[Dave]

Yeah, the banquet thing was just one of many questions that came up when I rewatched Legion for the millionth time last night.

I agree with you – there must be some kind of additional essence of Legion that doesn’t come directly from any of the four Dwarfers’ personalities. For him to know his own personal history and be able to talk about his past life etc. implies that he can draw on knowledge and understanding that the crew don’t have. I guess this is the essence that is floating around before Starbug arrives.

But then, if that’s the case then the ending of the episode doesn’t quite work – when he becomes Kryten, he must also have a bit of that essence-of-Legion mixed in too. Although maybe that’s not enough to override the Kryten aspects that compel him to help the crew.

[Flap Jack]

But then, if that’s the case then the ending of the episode doesn’t quite work – when he becomes Kryten, he must also have a bit of that essence-of-Legion mixed in too. Although maybe that’s not enough to override the Kryten aspects that compel him to help the crew.

I think the pure Legion “essence” contains his knowledge and memories, but it doesn’t inherently have a personality or a sense of identity.

It’s like a database, but only when others are present – and Legion becomes sentient – does that data gain personal meaning.

What actually drives Legion to trap the Dwarfers with him is the human (or human-esque) sense of self-preservation that he gets from Lister, Cat and Rimmer. Kryten has this drive too, but his drive to save his friends and generally put others first overrides it when Legion has his personality only.

[Jenuall]

Which is where I question how Legion ended up in this predicament on the first place. His original incarnation with all its genius and creativity would also have had that same desire for survival and self preservation – how come he didn’t invent a way to continue existing as more that just an essence? 

Maybe he’s just lazy? 

[paintings]

Legion may have reasoned that his position was decidedly bleak:
* He could only exist onboard the space station, or in an equivalent environment with the necessary computing power.
* The space station had – deliberately – been positioned where it wouldn’t be bothered by passing traffic.
* The space station had no (or very limited) propulsion capabilities, and the available power sources meant that there would be next to zero energy for a new propulsion system.
* Even if a propulsion system were available, Legion would have to be very careful where he repositioned the space station. Any new additions to the crew would have to be either (a) volunteers, or (b) people that no-one would miss. These would, in effect, require diametrically opposing strategies: “volunteers” implies a large pool of potential crew members and a tacit acceptance of the space station’s existence and purpose by everyone else in the vicinity, whereas “people that no-one would miss” implies running in stealth mode, sufficiently far from any busy space lanes.

As for why his plans went awry, I can think of three scenarios, all in the “bad luck” category:

1. Legion had devised some long-term plans, but the last few scientists died within such a short space of time that he didn’t manage to put the plans into action.

2. Legion’s plan was “Use the homing beacon to ensnare any passing spaceships”. Legion did not know that the Psirens had set up shop nearby, so was starved of spaceships coming within range of his homing beacon.

3. Legion came to the incorrect conclusion that he would still have a residual conscious existence when the last scientist died, so didn’t bother to implement any plans.

Obviously, option 2 is closest to the episodes as transmitted.

[Technopeasant]

Legion did not know that the Psirens had set up shop nearby, so was starved of spaceships coming within range of his homing beacon.

Seeing how Psirens are presumably GELFs, could they have been bred to protect off limit tech such as Legion and the Time Drive?

[Warbodog]

When he was processed for the Tank, where did Lister conceal the sexual magnetism virus that it wasn’t discovered?

[Ben Saunders]

Up his aaaarrrrrssssseeeee

[Warbodog]

[Dave]

[Moonlight]

At the risk of making the same joke as Warbo…

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Well, somebody had to.

[Unrumble]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

[Unrumble]

[Rudolph]

[Warbodog]

[Technopeasant]

Of course soft-light holograms could conceal anything by sitting on it.

[tombow]

Maybe there was a boy in the year below who had long flowing locks, and that was why Ace decided to copy that hairstyle. He’d be able to work it out just from looking at Arnie’s haircut.

Shades of Cobra Kai in how young Terry Silver copies the confident kid’s ponytail

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

In Queeg, did a meteor really hit the ship, or was it Holly setting in motion the Queeg prank?

[Moonlight]

My pet theory that I just invented is that it’s real and he used it as a springboard for a prank he’d already been setting up for months.

[clem]

I quite like the idea that he faked it and I suppose he could have got the skutters to do the damage in the hologram suite, but how did he make this happen

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

A better question is, how is Rimmer not falling through the table?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

A better question is, how is Rimmer not falling through the table?

Why is Rimmer affected by the physics around him at all

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I quite like the idea that he faked it and I suppose he could have got the skutters to do the damage in the hologram suite, but how did he make this happen

I’m confident Holly could rock the ship somehow 

maybe even manoeuvre the ship to be in the path of the meteor 

[clem]

I’m confident Holly could rock the ship somehow

Autopilot a Blue Midget and crash it into Red Dwarf, just a glancing blow? 

[loadoftottnumb]

Holly literally said he creates little diversions to keep Lister sane, this whole episode was definitely one of them. 

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Yes but the thing about when Holly said that

The thing that you have to remember about when Holly said that

Holly said that

Holly said that in Series VIII

[Moonlight]

Why is Rimmer affected by the physics around him at all

The hologram suite shook so his projection shook with it. There’s no light bee yet so we’re good. I invite you find a flaw in my logic.

Also, the table only moves when Rimmer hits it, which means the table, the checkers, and the skutter must also be holograms.

[Ben Saunders]

Rimmer using hologrammatic skutters to move his hologrammatic checkers pieces does feel like a rather Rimmer thing to do, a pathetic display of the tiny amount of power he could reasonably have over anything else.

[Moonlight]

Rimmer needs a cat. If they turn off some lights can they power a hologram cat? I feel like he’d be at least 20% less cunty if he could pet a cat.

[Starbugger]

In Queeg, did a meteor really hit the ship, or was it Holly setting in motion the Queeg prank?

I’ve always read it that it was all real until:

Rimmer: “You are a total, total… a word has yet to be invented to describe how totally whatever-it-is you are, but you are one, and a total, total one at that.”
Holly: “Alright, keep your hair on.”

Rimmer: “I’m lucky if I can keep my legs on with you in charge!”
Cat: “He’s out to lunch, man!”
Rimmer: “He’s out to lunch, breakfast, dinner, the lot! He’s not in for a single meal, if you ask me!”

That’s when Queeg appears on the screen so I take it that’s when Holly decides to teach them a lesson.

[Formica]

The hologram suite shook so his projection shook with it. There’s no light bee yet so we’re good. I invite you find a flaw in my logic.

Also explains the delay in his little jump that’s definitely not just Chris Barrie coming late on the cue

[Hamish]

Rimmer needs a cat. If they turn off some lights can they power a hologram cat? I feel like he’d be at least 20% less cunty if he could pet a cat.

That might make for an awkward situation for The Cat though.

[Author]

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